• FidoNet total Revamp ...

    From THEBUTLER4@1:311/0 to All on Fri Jul 11 23:00:14 2008
    Ok .. FidoNet needs some help ..

    I have been fighting to setup FidoNet for a while .. and I run into 2 major problems ... 1) the Backbone.na file is screwed I am getting mail from echos that are not listed in the backbone.na file .. if there is a change it needs
    to be changed everywhere and updated and hatched out.. 2) the other region NA files have the echo tags but no descriptions .. how are we to know what the damn echo tags are for???

    another problem I(WE) are having is everyone is pulling from everyone else .. If you have a NC in your area than people in that area should be pulling from them .. not someone across the world .. I dont understand this .. why would someone setup a FidoNet feed in one state when there is a NC in that area? .. before setting up new feeds the NC needs to check to see if there is a feed from a local NC ... That NC needs to pull from there RC and etc. etc. ...

    Why is FidoNet so laxed on this now a days .. it needs to be addressed and fixed!

    or am I just screwed in the head?

    ... Third Rock From The Sun BBS -==- www.ThirdRockBBS.com -==-
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: -==- Third Rock From The Sun BBS Net 311 -==- -==- 1:311 (1:311/0)
  • From Paul Lentz@1:124/5025 to THEBUTLER4 on Sat Jul 12 01:09:06 2008
    THEBUTLER4 wrote in a message to All:

    another problem I(WE) are having is everyone is pulling from everyone
    else .. If you have a NC in your area than people in that area should
    be pulling from them .. not someone across the world .. I dont
    understand this .. why would someone setup a FidoNet feed in one
    state when there is a NC in that area? .. before setting up new feeds
    the NC needs to check to see if there is a feed from a local NC ...
    That NC needs to pull from there RC and etc. etc. ...

    In this day of the Interweb it doesn't matter where a feed is. There are a few dedicated people who put their time and MONEY into trying to provide a good solid service to anyone that needs it from anywhere. They'll feed anyone... even me. Look at Ross (my feed fer-instance). He's worked hard to make his server up and ready, with a better uptime than my box here (which has a cranky binkp "buffer space" bug on Win98se that requires a reboot from time to time). Does every NC or RC have a solid machine built to crank out echomail?

    In the olden times there were even dumb factors like long distance calls, and tying up a single threaded mailer for hours. But now that isn't a factor. Good reliable feeds are just a bit hard to find. Being in your Net, or Region plays so little of a factor anymore.

    *Paul*
    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Dumb Guy's!!! (1:124/5025)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to THEBUTLER4 on Sat Jul 12 09:11:36 2008
    Re: FidoNet total Revamp ...
    By: THEBUTLER4 to All on Fri Jul 11 2008 23:00:14

    another problem I(WE) are having is everyone is pulling from everyone else .. If you have a NC in your area than people in that area should be pulling from them .. not someone across the world .. I dont understand this .. why would someone setup a FidoNet feed in one state when there is a NC in that area? .. before setting up new feeds the NC needs to check to see if there is a feed from a local NC ... That NC needs to pull from there RC and etc. etc. ...

    Where does it state that an NC or an RC needs to provide a feed? NEC or REC when we had them did that work, and, P4 does NOT state that you HAVE to get a feed from a specific point. That was part of a cost sharing thing in the nets many years ago, No longer true.
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Ross Cassell@1:123/456 to THEBUTLER4 on Sat Jul 12 09:35:14 2008
    Hello THEBUTLER4!

    Real names please..

    11 Jul 08 23:00, you wrote to All:

    I have been fighting to setup FidoNet for a while .. and I run into 2 major problems ... 1) the Backbone.na file is screwed I am getting
    mail from echos that are not listed in the backbone.na file

    Did you miss the updates yesterday?

    Do you have additional questions as to the meaning of each file?

    Do you have access to your uplinks areafix so that you can make sure you only receive echoes listed in the backbone.na, or did you merely turn on echoes with
    the "*" wildcard?

    .. if
    there is a change it needs to be changed everywhere and updated and hatched out.. 2) the other region NA files have the echo tags but no descriptions .. how are we to know what the damn echo tags are for???

    As far as the North American Backbone files go, they are hatched out if a change is made or warranted, but they arent just for the sake of doing so if no
    new information needs dessiminating.

    As far as regional echoes go, it is not within the purview of the North American Backbone to update, maintain, much less distribute files that denote echo rosters pertinent to specific regions or even nets. If you have a complaint about regional echo lists, then that needs to be directed at the powers that be within your region.

    The North American Backbone and other backbones, have in the past distributed regional specific echoes as a service to its various links. What we have had happen as regional and zone level politics flared up in the past is links make available regional echoes to people not part of the pertinent region, therefore
    most regions have decided to limit distribution of their regional echoes to strictly within their regions and often directly by that regions RC.

    another problem I(WE) are having is everyone is pulling from everyone
    else .. If you have a NC in your area than people in that area should
    be pulling from them .. not someone across the world .. I dont
    understand this .. why would someone setup a FidoNet feed in one state when there is a NC in that area? .. before setting up new feeds the NC needs to check to see if there is a feed from a local NC ... That NC
    needs to pull from there RC and etc. etc. ...

    As it turns out, many whom end up helping move the mail happen to be a coordinator. I am both a regional coordinator and a net coordinator, I happen to run a fairly sizeable mailhub and I peer with 3 others whom run sizeable mailhubs, 2 of them are regional and or net coordinators and the other is the zone coordinator. Alot of this came to be because we either inherited a outgoing RC's links when we attained the position or moving mail was what we were already doing when we attained the position. Other factors are that as Fidonet shrunk, so has the number of "volunteers".

    What you suggest may have been evident in the past and actually far more feasible during the days of telephone modem transport with the then high LD costs, but no more.

    If you want to talk about what should be, you shouldnt be using your administrative AKA (1:311/0) to send or receive echomail with, you should be using your primary non-administrative aka.

    I do know what has sparked this, you are the NC of a 2 man net, nothing wrong today with 2 man nets. Unknown to you, the other man in your net, sought and received a feed from my system and is using it. You a day or so later also applied to me for a feed, which is setup by the way, I happened to inform you of the link, but I suppose you had designs on him feeding from you..

    Why is FidoNet so laxed on this now a days .. it needs to be addressed
    and fixed!

    or am I just screwed in the head?

    Food for thought, if we were as strict and to the letter of policy, like we used to be, your 2 man net wouldnt be permissable. Also for further thought, under the old days, *C's were discouraged, often prohibited, from moving the mail. (Too many hats)

    The Internet has changed our landscape immensely, it has helped Fidonet in connecting nodes and transporting mail but it has also drained its numbers.

    Those whom refuse to change, cannot survive, by this I mean, we here in Fidonet
    Zone One, changed our views in order to keep Fidonet as alive as it can be, make it tennable, you want to roll all this back to go back to the old ways?

    I hope your distress isnt because 1:311/2 decision to feed here?

    ==
    Ross
    Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Blogs/Other Places: http://links.cassell.us ... Martin Luther King Jr, was a Republican!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
    * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)
  • From Ross Cassell@1:123/456 to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jul 12 10:26:12 2008
    Hello Joe!

    12 Jul 08 09:11, you wrote to THEBUTLER4:

    feeds the NC needs to check to see if there is a feed from a local
    NC ... That NC needs to pull from there RC and etc. etc. ...

    Where does it state that an NC or an RC needs to provide a feed? NEC
    or REC when we had them did that work,

    and back then in the more elaborate nets, the NEC didnt even move the mail, but
    was merely a administrator of sorts, with others doing the actual hauling.

    Some nets actually had a node appointed as the accountant for the CRP's.. aaaaarg!

    and, P4 does NOT state that you
    HAVE to get a feed from a specific point. That was part of a cost
    sharing thing in the nets many years ago, No longer true.

    I suspect its a culture shock thing, ergo a returning node whom remembers things as they once were.

    Now I am off to connect a node from NET 167, Stephen Monteith whom just realized that Dale Ross' system is still offline.. (09/2007) <G>

    ==
    Ross
    Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Blogs/Other Places: http://links.cassell.us ... Martin Luther King Jr, was a Republican!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
    * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)
  • From THEBUTLER4@1:311/0 to Ross Cassell on Sat Jul 12 10:22:34 2008
    Hello THEBUTLER4!

    Real names please..

    Did you miss the updates yesterday?

    I guess I did .. I should talk to you personally at this point .. I am
    getting VERY frustrated ....


    Do you have access to your uplinks areafix so that you can make sure you
    only
    receive echoes listed in the backbone.na, or did you merely turn on echoes
    with
    the "*" wildcard?

    Thats what happened .. my uplink just turned everything on .. I have
    since stopped that and sent in what I wanted to sub to .. however I am
    still getting orphan echos ...


    As far as the North American Backbone files go, they are hatched out if a change is made or warranted, but they arent just for the sake of doing so if
    no
    new information needs dessiminating.

    Ok cool .. this is what I needed to know ..


    The North American Backbone and other backbones, have in the past
    distributed
    regional specific echoes as a service to its various links. What we have had happen as regional and zone level politics flared up in the past is links
    make
    available regional echoes to people not part of the pertinent region,
    therefore
    most regions have decided to limit distribution of their regional echoes to strictly within their regions and often directly by that regions RC.

    Makes total Sence ...


    As it turns out, many whom end up helping move the mail happen to be a coordinator. I am both a regional coordinator and a net coordinator, I
    happen
    to run a fairly sizeable mailhub and I peer with 3 others whom run sizeable mailhubs, 2 of them are regional and or net coordinators and the other is
    the
    zone coordinator. Alot of this came to be because we either inherited a outgoing RC's links when we attained the position or moving mail was what we were already doing when we attained the position. Other factors are that as Fidonet shrunk, so has the number of "volunteers".

    What you suggest may have been evident in the past and actually far more feasible during the days of telephone modem transport with the then high LD costs, but no more.

    If you want to talk about what should be, you shouldnt be using your administrative AKA (1:311/0) to send or receive echomail with, you should be using your primary non-administrative aka.

    I agree and was unaware that my mailer was using that address. I will
    get it fixed ASAP.


    I do know what has sparked this, you are the NC of a 2 man net, nothing
    wrong
    today with 2 man nets. Unknown to you, the other man in your net, sought and received a feed from my system and is using it. You a day or so later also applied to me for a feed, which is setup by the way, I happened to inform
    you
    of the link, but I suppose you had designs on him feeding from you..

    Not 100% ... While I really dont care who they pull from .. I just know
    in the past I had to pull from my local NC (so I was told at the time)
    .. I am now the NC for Net311 so I thought it was "Law" that any 311 net
    would be pulling from me. so .. its not a big deal .. just wanted to
    clear it up ...

    I hope your distress isnt because 1:311/2 decision to feed here?

    OO No .. not at all .. Just trying to clear thing up ..


    Is there a phone number that I can contact you at? .. I have a few
    things that I need to talk to you .. however I dont want to do it in
    open forums ... I guess I could netmail you .. lol ..

    Thanks!

    Steve Reeves

    I will also get the "Real Name" thing fixed asap .


    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: -==- Third Rock From The Sun BBS Net 311 -==- -==- 1:311 (1:311/0)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Ross Cassell on Sat Jul 12 12:58:07 2008
    Re: FidoNet total Revamp ...
    By: Ross Cassell to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jul 12 2008 10:26:12

    and, P4 does NOT state that you
    HAVE to get a feed from a specific point. That was part of a cost sharing thing in the nets many years ago, No longer true.

    I suspect its a culture shock thing, ergo a returning node whom remembers things as they once were.

    Quite possible. I have had a few returning nodes like that. I am the feed for my net, but that was a choice I made, and my nodes do not have to get mail from me if they dont want to <G>. As you know, I also wear a *C beany <G>


    Now I am off to connect a node from NET 167, Stephen Monteith whom just realized that Dale Ross' system is still offline.. (09/2007) <G>


    How long has he been offline?
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Ross Cassell@1:123/456 to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jul 12 14:08:32 2008
    Hello Joe!

    12 Jul 08 12:58, you wrote to me:

    Now I am off to connect a node from NET 167, Stephen Monteith whom
    just realized that Dale Ross' system is still offline.. (09/2007)
    <G>

    How long has he been offline?

    Dales system was a victim of a lightning strike from a thunderstorm late last summer of 2007, I want to say in September. The day after, he told me of this in a instant messaging session and he sounded as if he was going to go out that
    day to a store and buy a new setup. As a result, I have taken on most of his links, while others went to other hubs.

    I havent rushed him (obviously) and if it were someone else I was less familiar
    with, I probably would be less patient. Despite the past wars and severe fighting, I cannot overlook that which he has done for Fidonet at least before all that friction.

    I emailed him a month ago to get a update on his status or intentions, he sounds like he is stuck in the middle of a decision making process, trying to decide if the effort is worth his time, I dont want to get pushy in this respect, because I dont want to force him into a decision he might not make if left alone to decide.

    I do know he has taken up being a major booster for local high school sports, operating message boards and web sites and with his own kids being of that age.

    Anyway, this is why I have and am leaving him in the nodelist until I am told different. (By him)

    ==
    Ross
    Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Blogs/Other Places: http://links.cassell.us ... Martin Luther King Jr, was a Republican!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
    * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)
  • From Bob Seaborn@1:140/12 to Ross Cassell on Sat Jul 12 12:48:00 2008

    Now I am off to connect a node from NET 167, Stephen Monteith whom just realized that Dale Ross' system is still offline.. (09/2007) <G>




    Stephen has had a link here for ages, he just doesn't seem to use it.
    :(





    .....Bob

    --- GEcho/32 & IM 2.50
    * Origin: www.nwstar.com - Backbone Provider (1:140/12)
  • From Ross Cassell@1:123/456 to THEBUTLER4 on Sat Jul 12 14:28:42 2008
    Hello THEBUTLER4!

    12 Jul 08 10:22, you wrote to me:

    Real names please..

    Did you miss the updates yesterday?

    I guess I did .. I should talk to you personally at this point .. I am getting VERY frustrated ....

    No need to be, just tailor your setup to use backbone.na, preferably the one I hatched yesterday...

    Better yet, start utilizing the link you setup here.. <G>

    Do you have access to your uplinks areafix so that you can make
    sure you only -> receive echoes listed in the backbone.na, or did you merely turn on echoes with -> the "*" wildcard?

    Thats what happened .. my uplink just turned everything on .. I have
    since stopped that and sent in what I wanted to sub to .. however I am still getting orphan echos ...

    Thats understandable that orphans will come through, you might not have total areafix privileges at 2905/0 (sigh, anutha person using admin aka for tossing mail).

    Here I have the echoes arranged in groups, some of the groups contain echoes that are not in the backbone files but are perfectly and legitimately accessible by most links, so if I on their behalf or they use the "*" wildcard,
    they are going to get linked to echoes they have access to.

    As a practice I do not link them into anything when they first join up, it is their responsibility to use areafix to pick what they want. Most of them do use
    the "*" wildcard and then trim back, while others turn on specific echoes at a time and build up from there.

    What I have done is take a copy of the backbone.na, copy it over to a text file, lets say areafix.txt, edit the descriptions out, just leaving the tag names. I then import the resulting text file into a areafix message.

    Remember the North American Backbone is a transport layer only, we dont provide
    content. An active echo today can be tomorrows inactive echo or was yesterdays inactive echo.

    I do know what has sparked this, you are the NC of a 2 man net,
    nothing wrong -> today with 2 man nets. Unknown to you, the other man
    in your net, sought and -> received a feed from my system and is using
    it. You a day or so later also -> applied to me for a feed, which is
    setup by the way, I happened to inform you -> of the link, but I
    suppose you had designs on him feeding from you..

    Not 100% ... While I really dont care who they pull from .. I just
    know in the past I had to pull from my local NC (so I was told at the time) .. I am now the NC for Net311 so I thought it was "Law" that any
    311 net would be pulling from me. so .. its not a big deal .. just
    wanted to clear it up ...

    Well you are in Region 15... No wonder...

    Over the years they have had some of the most draconian practices in Fidonet, especially regarding echomail distribution. At one time someone over there wanted to institute some sort of fee in order to get(stay) listed.

    Well I am here to tell you that all of that was wrong then and is wrong now, you are free... <G>

    As a NC, it is not unreasonable for you to ask members of your net to check in with you or at least poll you to check on any netmail you might have.

    Is there a phone number that I can contact you at? .. I have a few
    things that I need to talk to you .. however I dont want to do it in
    open forums ... I guess I could netmail you .. lol ..

    email me (see sig line)

    ==
    Ross
    Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Blogs/Other Places: http://links.cassell.us ... Martin Luther King Jr, was a Republican!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
    * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to Ross Cassell on Sat Jul 12 22:58:35 2008
    HI ROss,

    Ross Cassell wrote in a message to Joe Delahaye:

    and back then in the more elaborate nets, the NEC didnt even move
    the mail, but was merely a administrator of sorts, with others doing
    the actual hauling.

    YEp, back in Central Iowa net in the '90's where i first started as a mo our nec did the crp thing and just happened to be the primary feed for most n290 members after dan Buda's fog-line quit doing it.

    Iirc from my reading of p4 nc's are other than nodelist maintenance to provide routed netmail, but oculd be wrong about that.

    Iirc net 283, Eastern Iowa net at that time had a nec, but folks fed from all sorts of places. IN fact, within n283 I think there were three or four crp plans in operation. One for the Quad cities, one for the Cedar Rapids/Iowa City
    area, and another for the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area. The southeastern Iowa part
    of that net had another crp which I administered, as I was the main echomail mover into and out of it. I was rather surprised there for awhile that the nc and rc14 didn't separate southeastern Iowa out of n283 because at our peak I believe iirc we had 6-8 nodes there.

    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Radio REscue net operations BBS (1:116/901)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Thebutler4 on Sat Jul 12 23:08:00 2008
    On 07-11-08 23:00, Thebutler4 <=-
    spoke to All about FidoNet total Revamp ... <=-

    2) the other region NA files have the echo tags but no descriptions ..
    how are we to know what the damn echo tags are for???

    That is what the Elist is for -- assuming that the moderator of the echo
    cares enough to use the Elist.

    another problem I(WE) are having is everyone is pulling from everyone
    else ..

    That is not a problem.

    If you have a NC in your area than people in that area should
    be pulling from them .. not someone across the world .. I dont

    For more than 10 years, I have never gotten my main echo feed from my
    NC, and in fact not even from my region.

    understand this .. why would someone setup a FidoNet feed in one state when there is a NC in that area? .. before setting up new feeds the NC needs to check to see if there is a feed from a local NC ... That NC
    needs to pull from there RC and etc. etc. ...
    Why is FidoNet so laxed on this now a days .. it needs to be addressed
    and fixed!

    Nope. Works just fine.

    or am I just screwed in the head?

    :-}}

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) comcast (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 23:11:27, 12 Jul 2007
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Bob Ackley@1:300/3 to Ross Cassell on Sun Jul 13 05:31:28 2008
    Replying to a message of Ross Cassell to Joe Delahaye:

    I emailed him a month ago to get a update on his status or intentions,
    he sounds like he is stuck in the middle of a decision making
    process, trying to decide if the effort is worth his time, I dont
    want to get pushy in this respect, because I dont want to force him
    into a decision he might not make if left alone to decide.

    I do know he has taken up being a major booster for local high school sports, operating message boards and web sites and with his own kids
    being of that age.

    Anyway, this is why I have and am leaving him in the nodelist until I
    am told different. (By him)

    If Dale needs a box I can ship him a complete Fido capable system except
    for software and monitor. It won't be new and it won't be pretty but it will be functional.

    --- FleetStreet 1.19+
    * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)
  • From Ross Cassell@1:123/456 to Bob Ackley on Mon Jul 14 09:30:26 2008
    Hello Bob!

    13 Jul 08 05:31, you wrote to me:

    If Dale needs a box I can ship him a complete Fido capable system
    except for software and monitor. It won't be new and it won't be
    pretty but it will be functional.

    Right now I dont think he lacks the means, I think he is wrestling with the desire.

    ==
    Ross
    Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Blogs/Other Places: http://links.cassell.us ... Martin Luther King Jr, was a Republican!
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
    * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)