• MBSE, Sysops and distros

    From Vince Coen@2:250/1 to All on Fri Jul 17 14:27:15 2015
    Hello All!

    I have been having problems using mbse with Mageia v4 (& v3) since migrating over from Mandriva 2011 in that for any new user (connecting to the system using telnet) having entered username with the system creating the linux and bbs account then requests password the password setup fails with a shadow file busy. This is not the case as when testing for it via "sudo lsof | grep shadow" produces nothing.

    So the question - would ALL mbse sysops please report here what Distro including version they are using and what mbse version and confirm if that have
    had new users registering since using along with the date (MM/YY) of last registered user.

    If you have not had anyone since setup please provide your BBS contact details and I will try via telnet, or you can do a test yourself again (using telnet localhost etc) and set up a test user and let me know.

    If others are suffering from the same problem then we need to take a close look
    at the code that deals with this and fix it!



    Vince

    --- Mageia Linux v4/Mbse v1.0.4/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Vince Coen on Sat Jul 18 13:26:47 2015
    Hello Vince!

    17 Jul 15 14:27, you wrote to all:

    I have been having problems using mbse with Mageia v4 (& v3) since migrating over from Mandriva 2011 in that for any new user (connecting
    to the system using telnet) having entered username with the system creating the linux and bbs account then requests password the password setup fails with a shadow file busy. This is not the case as when
    testing for it via "sudo lsof | grep shadow" produces nothing.

    So the question - would ALL mbse sysops please report here what Distro including version they are using and what mbse version and confirm if
    that have had new users registering since using along with the date (MM/YY) of last registered user.

    I'm running under Slackware 14.0 currently, and have had no problems with new users registering. The most recent one I saw in my quick glance at the user file was in January 2015.

    If you have not had anyone since setup please provide your BBS contact details and I will try via telnet, or you can do a test yourself again (using telnet localhost etc) and set up a test user and let me know.

    If others are suffering from the same problem then we need to take a
    close look at the code that deals with this and fix it!

    I think this is Mageia related; when I have some spare time and a machine to try it, I will do a test setup and see what I can figure out.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20150715
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net:2323 (1:320/219)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Vince Coen on Sat Jul 18 15:52:23 2015
    Hello Vince,

    17 Jul 15 14:27, you wrote to All:

    If others are suffering from the same problem then we need to take a
    close look at the code that deals with this and fix it!

    I agree with Andrew; this must be Mageia-related. I'm using Slackware 14.1 and have never had a problem with a new user registering, so hopefully Andrew can try to figure out why you're having problems.


    --Sean

    ... Hey! Don't pick up that pho╫»╗Æßë╜├╥τ NO CARRIER
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20150715
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Vince Coen on Sat Jul 18 17:17:52 2015

    17 Jul 15 14:27, you wrote to All:

    If others are suffering from the same problem then we need to take a
    close look at the code that deals with this and fix it!

    if i can get the storms to leave me and my equipment alone long enough, i plan to install an ubuntu LTS server in a VM and then install mbse to that...

    i'm rather tossed up about whether to install to /home on a separate drive/partition as i generally (try to) do or to install to /opt and have that on another drive/partition...

    )\/(ark

    ... If the English can survive their food they can survive anything. G.B. Shaw ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Sat Jul 18 20:18:04 2015
    Hello mark,

    18 Jul 15 17:17, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    i'm rather tossed up about whether to install to /home on a separate drive/partition as i generally (try to) do or to install to /opt and
    have that on another drive/partition...

    MBSE was designed to be installed in /opt. The author specifies that and it was explained to me that doesn't break the LFS that way either. I have /opt installed on a separate 320GB hard drive for ease of backup and the ability to switch distros if need be without totally breaking my MBSE install.

    --Sean

    ... Anything not nailed down is a dog toy.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20150715
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Sean Dennis on Sat Jul 18 21:42:56 2015

    18 Jul 15 20:18, you wrote to me:

    Hello mark,

    18 Jul 15 17:17, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    i'm rather tossed up about whether to install to /home on a separate
    drive/partition as i generally (try to) do or to install to /opt and
    have that on another drive/partition...

    MBSE was designed to be installed in /opt.

    that may be but there was a modification that moved it to an easy installation to /home/whatever...

    The author specifies that and it was explained to me that doesn't
    break the LFS that way either.

    while i do build my own *nix installations, i don't know all that much about LFS... and i don't really see where it matters all that much in this case, either...

    I have /opt installed on a separate 320GB hard drive for ease of
    backup and the ability to switch distros if need be without totally breaking my MBSE install.

    i do that with /home as a matter of principle... especially since i don't want to break an user's private installs and such ;)

    )\/(ark

    ... A paddle-pop stick and some electrician's tape is cheaper than viagra.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Sun Jul 19 00:05:13 2015
    Hello mark,

    18 Jul 15 21:42, you wrote to me:

    i do that with /home as a matter of principle... especially since i
    don't want to break an user's private installs and such ;)

    I've installed MBSE four times under four different distros and NOT ONCE did I have a problem installing it to /opt.

    So you're willing to install a publicly accessable server into your home directory? Do you leave your home unlocked when you leave? That's just asking for problems. MBSE is a system install, not a private user install, and it's set up that way...

    Not only that, but /home is actually an optional directory and not all systems even use /home.

    From the MBSE manual:

    "MBSE BBS is default installed in /opt/mbse. It should be possible to install the bbs in a different location but this is not supported. Many have tried, and and only a few have succeeded. See Filesystem Hierarchy Standard for more info."

    It's done that way so the software will work correctly under every install, that's why. You should realize this.

    From http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPA CKAGE S:

    "The use of /opt for add-on software is a well-established practice in the UNIX community. The System V Application Binary Interface [AT&T 1990], based on the System V Interface Definition (Third Edition), provides for an /opt structure very similar to the one defined here.

    The Intel Binary Compatibility Standard v. 2 (iBCS2) also provides a similar structure for /opt.

    Generally, all data required to support a package on a system must be present within /opt/<package>, including files intended to be copied into /etc/opt/<package> and /var/opt/<package> as well as reserved directories in /opt.

    The minor restrictions on distributions using /opt are necessary because conflicts are possible between distribution-installed and locally-installed software, especially in the case of fixed pathnames found in some binary software.

    The structure of the directories below /opt/<provider> is left up to the packager of the software, though it is recommended that packages are installed in /opt/<provider>/<package> and follow a similar structure to the guidelines for /opt/package. A valid reason for diverging from this structure is for support packages which may have files installed in /opt/<provider>/lib or /opt/<provider>/bin."

    From:
    http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE10

    "/home : User home directories (optional)
    Purpose

    /home is a fairly standard concept, but it is clearly a site-specific filesystem. [9] The setup will differ from host to host. Therefore, no program should rely on this location. [10]"

    So if you want to go breaking MBSE from its official distribution, go right ahead and do it. I didn't have any problem following directions, but just because others do, that doesn't mean you can go around breaking software just because of your ineptitude in INSTALLING IT. I mean, if you can't even install the software right, perhaps you shouldn't be using it!

    This isn't Windows where you can stick a program wherever you want and not worry about it. :)

    I've several patches I'm going to be giving Andrew (hopefully soon). I won't support any patches I've made unless MBSE is installed correctly. After nearly 20 years of supporting Cheepware, I've come to the conclusion that a majority of sysops are lazy and don't bother reading the directions. In the MBSE manual, it says that all distros may not work with MBSE, but it seems people overlook that fact and claim MBSE is broken.

    --Sean

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20150715
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From RJ Clay@1:120/544 to Sean Dennis on Sun Aug 9 12:56:32 2015
    Hi Sean!

    18 Jul 15 20:18, you wrote to mark lewis:

    18 Jul 15 17:17, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    i'm rather tossed up about whether to install to /home on a
    separate drive/partition as i generally (try to) do or to install
    to /opt and have that on another drive/partition...

    MBSE was designed to be installed in /opt.

    I don't know about "designed" but it was certain implemented that way, given the number of places where that was hardcoded. Which, btw, I consider to be a bug in the build system (which admittedly I still need to write up as such) as besides anything else, it makes it a pain to do (for intance) a Debian package properly.

    I have done some work (in a forked development version) for where at least some of the changes for the install paths need to be but still need to tranlate that to patches that can be used in the Debian package build.


    The author specifies that
    and it was explained to me that doesn't break the LFS that way either.

    Well, that's perhaps not entirely true [1]:

    "Variable data of the program packages in /opt must be installed in /var/opt/'package-name"

    Under '/opt/package-name' is supposed to be where the static files go, which isn't how mbsebbs is currently set up...



    I have /opt installed on a separate 320GB hard drive for ease of
    backup and the ability to switch distros if need be without totally breaking my MBSE install.

    I would think that for that be able to work correctly, may depend on the versions of the needed library files...



    RJ

    [1] http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/Linux-Filesystem-Hierar chy.html

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20110213
    * Origin: ftn.rocasa.net (1:120/544)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to RJ Clay on Mon Aug 10 14:51:04 2015
    Hi, Jame-

    RJ Clay wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    way, given the number of places where that was hardcoded. Which, btw,
    I consider to be a bug in the build system (which admittedly I still
    need to write up as such) as besides anything else, it makes it a pain
    to do (for intance) a Debian package properly.

    One of the reasons why I quit running Debian: it seems in every new version, something else is broken...

    I would think that for that be able to work correctly, may depend on the versions of the needed library files...

    Like Andrew said, the configuration script should take care of that.

    --Sean

    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * bbs.outpostbbs.net * Johnson City, TN (1:18/200)
  • From Vince Coen@2:250/1 to RJ Clay on Mon Aug 10 18:55:52 2015
    Hello RJ!

    Sunday August 09 2015 12:56, you wrote to Sean Dennis:


    If you look at my changes for 1.0.4, I changed the coding to cover for /home but cannot remember if I used the $MBSE_ROOT or just re-hardcoded it.

    If the later will need to be re-visited as this really should be cleaned up.

    Next will be if someone whish to move from /opt to say /home and needs to have the system automatically readjust the paths on the message and file bases and
    I did not do that as I could not find where the update code is.

    Vince


    18 Jul 15 20:18, you wrote to mark lewis:

    18 Jul 15 17:17, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    i'm rather tossed up about whether to install to /home on a
    separate drive/partition as i generally (try to) do or to
    install to /opt and have that on another drive/partition...

    MBSE was designed to be installed in /opt.

    I don't know about "designed" but it was certain implemented that
    way, given the number of places where that was hardcoded. Which, btw,
    I consider to be a bug in the build system (which admittedly I still
    need to write up as such) as besides anything else, it makes it a pain
    to do (for intance) a Debian package properly.

    I have done some work (in a forked development version) for where
    at least some of the changes for the install paths need to be but
    still need to tranlate that to patches that can be used in the Debian package build.


    The author specifies that
    and it was explained to me that doesn't break the LFS that way
    either.

    Well, that's perhaps not entirely true [1]:

    "Variable data of the program packages in /opt must be installed in /var/opt/'package-name"

    Under '/opt/package-name' is supposed to be where the static files
    go, which isn't how mbsebbs is currently set up...



    I have /opt installed on a separate 320GB hard drive for ease of
    backup and the ability to switch distros if need be without
    totally breaking my MBSE install.

    I would think that for that be able to work correctly, may depend
    on the versions of the needed library files...



    RJ

    [1]
    http://www.tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/Linux-Filesyst em-Hierar chy.html



    Vince

    --- Mageia Linux v4/Mbse v1.0.4/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)
  • From RJ Clay@1:120/544 to Sean Dennis on Wed Aug 12 18:42:27 2015
    Hi Sean!

    10 Aug 15 14:51, you wrote to me:

    RJ Clay wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

    way, given the number of places where that was hardcoded. Which,
    btw, I consider to be a bug in the build system (which admittedly
    I still need to write up as such) as besides anything else, it
    makes it a pain to do (for intance) a Debian package properly.

    One of the reasons why I quit running Debian: it seems in every new version, something else is broken...

    Eh? That it's so hard to configure a package build for mbsebbs to install it to the FHS correct directorys is an issue with MbseBBS.


    I would think that for that be able to work correctly, may
    depend on the versions of the needed library files...

    Like Andrew said, the configuration script should take care of that.

    Didn't seem to but I'll need to test it again to be sure... (likely in an newly set up LXC or VM system to do the build...)



    RJ

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20110213
    * Origin: ftn.rocasa.net (1:120/544)
  • From RJ Clay@1:120/544 to Vince Coen on Wed Aug 12 19:19:17 2015
    Hi Vince!

    10 Aug 15 18:55, you wrote to me:

    Sunday August 09 2015 12:56, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

    If you look at my changes for 1.0.4,

    IIRC; I wanted to, in order to see how you were doing it, but don't think I ever actually had anthing for it (or if I did, I can't find it now). And I don't see the changes in the Hg repository, though all I have is the 'default' branch...


    I changed the coding to cover for /home but cannot remember if I used
    the ┬$MBSE_ROOT or just re-hardcoded it.

    Possibly both, but I don't recall which uses what.


    If the later will need to be re-visited as this really should be
    cleaned up.

    I agree, and will likely add a Milestone for it along with at least one bug if no one else does.


    Next will be if someone whish to move from /opt to say /home and needs
    to have the system automatically readjust the paths on the message and file bases and I did not do that as I could not find where the update
    code is.

    IIRC; that's actually in the initial setup of the configuration ('mbsetup init' ?), and I think it's hardcoded to use the $MBSE_ROOT variable to set up those paths... (They can be adjusted after the initial set up of the configuration files, of course, but you need to remember to go into mbsetup and do that...)




    RJ

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20110213
    * Origin: ftn.rocasa.net (1:120/544)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to RJ Clay on Wed Aug 12 23:02:16 2015

    12 Aug 15 19:19, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    If you look at my changes for 1.0.4,

    IIRC; I wanted to, in order to see how you were doing it, but don't
    think I ever actually had anthing for it (or if I did, I can't find it now). And I don't see the changes in the Hg repository, though all I
    have is the 'default' branch...

    grab the repo and revert back to before andrew's changes and you should be able
    to save the files out to another directory where you can checkout the latest again and then run a diff on them to pull out the real changes you seek... that
    or maybe there's a way to have the repo do that for you? i dunno... i always tend to do it manually by reverting and copying out, then coming back to the present and doing a diff between the reverted and the now code...

    the main thing, as i see it, is that there should be an option presented, whether from a local build or from a package as to where to install to... i always hate it when i install something via apt that i want only for my personal user but it gets put in place for all users...

    )\/(ark

    ... Thank you Mr. Music
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From RJ Clay@1:120/544 to mark lewis on Sat Aug 15 13:46:03 2015
    Hi mark!

    12 Aug 15 23:02, you wrote to me:

    12 Aug 15 19:19, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    If you look at my changes for 1.0.4,

    IIRC; I wanted to, in order to see how you were doing it, but
    don't think I ever actually had anthing for it (or if I did, I
    can't find it now). And I don't see the changes in the Hg
    repository, though all I have is the 'default' branch...

    grab the repo and revert back to before andrew's changes and you
    should be able to save the files out to another directory where you
    can checkout the latest again and then run a diff on them to pull out
    the real changes you seek... that or maybe there's a way to have the
    repo do that for you? i dunno... i always tend to do it manually by reverting and copying out, then coming back to the present and doing a diff between the reverted and the now code...

    The commits need to be there in order to 'revert' to them, and they're not; at least not in the repo checkout ("clone") that I have.
    I'll just need to get with them (Andrew and Vince) about it.


    the main thing, as i see it, is that there should be an option
    presented, whether from a local build or from a package as to where to install to...

    True.


    i always hate it when i install something via apt that i
    want only for my personal user but it gets put in place for all
    users...

    In general, a distros' package manager is for installing things for system wide use, not just a particular user...





    Jame

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20110213
    * Origin: ftn.rocasa.net (1:120/544)
  • From Vince Coen@2:250/1 to RJ Clay on Sun Aug 16 14:47:04 2015
    Hello RJ!

    Saturday August 15 2015 13:46, you wrote to mark lewis:

    Hi mark!

    12 Aug 15 23:02, you wrote to me:

    12 Aug 15 19:19, you wrote to Vince Coen:

    If you look at my changes for 1.0.4,

    IIRC; I wanted to, in order to see how you were doing it, but
    don't think I ever actually had anthing for it (or if I did, I
    can't find it now). And I don't see the changes in the Hg
    repository, though all I have is the 'default' branch...

    grab the repo and revert back to before andrew's changes and you
    should be able to save the files out to another directory where
    you can checkout the latest again and then run a diff on them to
    pull out the real changes you seek... that or maybe there's a way
    to have the repo do that for you? i dunno... i always tend to do
    it manually by reverting and copying out, then coming back to the
    present and doing a diff between the reverted and the now code...

    The commits need to be there in order to 'revert' to them, and
    they're not; at least not in the repo checkout ("clone") that I have.
    I'll just need to get with them (Andrew and Vince) about it.


    the main thing, as i see it, is that there should be an option
    presented, whether from a local build or from a package as to
    where to install to...

    True.


    i always hate it when i install something via apt that i
    want only for my personal user but it gets put in place for all
    users...

    In general, a distros' package manager is for installing things for
    system wide use, not just a particular user...


    Have now installed 106 over the installed 104 still using /home instead of /opt.

    Compiling the build was simple just used

    ./configure --prefix=/home/mbse

    then used the standard su, make install job done.


    We counld update mbsetup to check if the install is NOT to the standard /opt and if so migrate the existing file and msg .data files to use the new path. That will remove 98% of any migration.

    The oonly other areas to look at are:

    1. Check all scripts in ~/etc that the full path is not hard coded but using $MBSE_ROOT as originally supplied

    2. If not using the .profile export of $HOME in crontab to pre-set the paths i.e.,

    #Hourly
    00 0-23 * * * $MBSE_ROOT/etc/hourly


    then modify the "/opt" to "/home".

    Now migration is complete.



    Vince

    --- Mageia Linux v4/Mbse v1.0.4/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)
  • From Vince Coen@2:250/1 to RJ Clay on Sun Aug 16 16:02:31 2015
    Hello RJ!

    Sunday August 16 2015 14:47, I wrote to you:

    Have now installed 106 over the installed 104 still using /home
    instead of /opt.

    Compiling the build was simple just used

    ./configure --prefix=/home/mbse

    then used the standard su, make install job done.


    We counld update mbsetup to check if the install is NOT to the
    standard /opt and if so migrate the existing file and msg .data files
    to use the new path. That will remove 98% of any migration.

    The oonly other areas to look at are:

    1. Check all scripts in ~/etc that the full path is not hard coded
    but using $MBSE_ROOT as originally supplied

    2. If not using the .profile export of $HOME in crontab to pre-set
    the paths i.e.,

    #Hourly
    00 0-23 * * * $MBSE_ROOT/etc/hourly


    then modify the "/opt" to "/home".

    Now migration is complete.

    Messed up that crontab line, this is what it should have said:

    #Hourly
    00 0-23 * * * $HOME/etc/hourly




    Vince

    --- Mageia Linux v4/Mbse v1.0.4/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.501-b20150715
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Vince Coen on Sun Aug 16 11:55:26 2015
    Hello Vince!

    16 Aug 15 14:47, you wrote to RJ Clay:

    Have now installed 106 over the installed 104 still using /home
    instead of /opt.

    Compiling the build was simple just used

    ./configure --prefix=/home/mbse

    then used the standard su, make install job done.

    Good; I thought that should work for you.

    We counld update mbsetup to check if the install is NOT to the
    standard /opt and if so migrate the existing file and msg .data files
    to use the new path. That will remove 98% of any migration.

    I will look at this, or maybe a separate program to read the .data files are rewrite them with the updated path.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20150715
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net:2323 (1:320/219)
  • From Vince Coen@2:250/1 to Andrew Leary on Mon Aug 17 12:46:47 2015
    Hello Andrew!

    Sunday August 16 2015 11:55, you wrote to me:

    Hello Vince!

    16 Aug 15 14:47, you wrote to RJ Clay:

    Have now installed 106 over the installed 104 still using /home
    instead of /opt.

    Compiling the build was simple just used

    ./configure --prefix=/home/mbse

    then used the standard su, make install job done.

    Good; I thought that should work for you.

    We counld update mbsetup to check if the install is NOT to the
    standard /opt and if so migrate the existing file and msg .data
    files to use the new path. That will remove 98% of any migration.

    I will look at this, or maybe a separate program to read the .data
    files are rewrite them with the updated path.

    Thanks, I did take a look at the code via mbsetup but it is beyond my C skills
    to understand what exactly is required.

    I just do the easy stuff :)


    Vince

    --- Mageia Linux v4/Mbse v1.0.4/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.501-b20150715
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)