• the eagle has landed

    From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Neil Armstrong on Mon Sep 2 01:00:49 2019
    Hallo Neil!

    -={ /lib/libc.so.6 }=-
    GNU C Library (GNU libc) stable release version 2.30.
    Copyright (C) 2019 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
    There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
    PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
    Compiled by GNU CC version 9.2.0.
    libc ABIs: UNIQUE IFUNC ABSOLUTE
    For bug reporting instructions, please see: <http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/bugs.html>.

    -={ gcc -v }=-
    Using built-in specs.
    COLLECT_GCC=gcc COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/libexec/gcc/x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu/9.2.0/lto-wrapper
    Target: x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu
    Configured with: ../configure --prefix=/usr --disable-multilib --with-system-zlib --enable-languages=c,c++ --disable-bootstrap --build=x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu
    Thread model: posix
    gcc version 9.2.0 (GCC)

    -={ uname -a }=-
    Linux heatsink 5.2.11 #1 SMP Sun Sep 1 03:14:11 UTC 2019 x86_64 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU J3060 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

    One down, one more to go.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384.125 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Sep 2 15:50:52 2019
    Hi! Maurice,

    On 02 Sep 19 01:00, you wrote to Neil Armstrong:

    Hallo Neil!

    Alan Shepard reports...

    15:38:26 root@ghizmo ~ $ /lib/libc.so.6
    GNU C Library (Ubuntu EGLIBC 2.11.1-0ubuntu7.1) stable release version 2.11.1, by Roland McGrath et al.
    Copyright (C) 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
    There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
    PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
    Compiled by GNU CC version 4.4.3.
    Compiled on a Linux >>2.6.24-27-server<< system on 2010-05-21.
    Available extensions:
    crypt add-on version 2.1 by Michael Glad and others
    GNU Libidn by Simon Josefsson
    Native POSIX Threads Library by Ulrich Drepper et al
    BIND-8.2.3-T5B
    For bug reporting instructions, please see:
    <http://www.debian.org/Bugs/>.

    15:38:54 root@ghizmo ~ $ gcc -v
    bash: gcc: command not found

    15:41:27 root@ghizmo ~ $ uname -a
    Linux ghizmo 2.6.33.2 #1 SMP Thu May 27 10:56:32 EST 2010 i686 GNU/Linux 15:41:56 root@ghizmo ~ $

    Followed by a "Wow! It worked!".

    Don't ask me. I just use 'em; I don't build 'em.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    ... "The path to the stars is paved with sorrow." Charles Logan, 1975.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Paul's other Linux ghizmo - a little more mobile (3:640/1384.125)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Paul Quinn on Mon Sep 2 06:37:19 2019
    Hallo Paul!

    15:38:54 root@ghizmo ~ $ gcc -v
    bash: gcc: command not found

    Ouch! Linux without gcc is like MS Windows without a pointy-clicky interface.

    Followed by a "Wow! It worked!".

    A bit dated but I don't see why it shouldn't. However I find the lack of gcc to be a bit disturbing but that might just be me. Heck even the raspi3 here has it's own customized gcc ... 64-bit too. Mind you if it didn't there would be nothing here that could take care of it.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Andrew Alt@1:261/38 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Sep 4 15:19:08 2019
    Maurice Kinal wrote to Neil Armstrong <=-

    Hallo Neil!

    Hallo Maurice,

    You might like to have a link to the original Apollo 11 Guidance Computer (AGC)

    source code for the command and lunar modules.

    https://github.com/chrislgarry/Apollo-11

    Nice to hear from you again. I think we last chatted about 10 years ago, around

    the time I tried to help you and Pascal with the minimalinux.org website. Though I
    went by "Andy" at the time, not Andrew xD

    Tsch─╝ss!




    --
    -Andy


    ... GitHub == Open Source == Microsoft == wtf?
    -+- MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Sep 4 21:24:08 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    02 Sep 19 06:37, Maurice Kinal wrote to Paul Quinn:

    bash: gcc: command not found

    Ouch! Linux without gcc is like MS Windows without a pointy-clicky interface.

    Ah, well, sometimes clang will do just fine. FreeBSD switched some time ago. Even some Linux distributions deliver it by defult these days (e.g., OpenMandriva).


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 9:24PM up 141 days, 5:45, 8 users, load averages: 0.38, 0.36, 0.33

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: A true lie to believe (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Andrew Alt on Wed Sep 4 20:18:40 2019
    Hey Andrew!

    source code for the command and lunar modules.

    Interesting. I will definetly check that out for old times sake. I am guessing there isn't much call for Apollo Guidance Computer programmers these days.

    you and Pascal with the minimalinux.org website

    I remember it well. Also remember you when posted in this echoarea before that
    time. This is where I met Pascal as well as you. I haven't talked to him since he passed on the ttylinux development keys, and you sometime before that.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-bonnell-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Gerrit Kuehn on Wed Sep 4 20:27:14 2019
    Hey Gerrit!

    Ouch! Linux without gcc is like MS Windows without a
    pointy-clicky interface.

    Ah, well, sometimes clang will do just fine.

    Blasphemy!

    Even some Linux distributions deliver it by defult these days

    As well as systemd as well as other software that adds additional bloat and drag to your system. What makes clang more appealing than gcc?

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-bonnell-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Sep 5 18:05:54 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    04 Sep 19 20:27, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:


    Ah, well, sometimes clang will do just fine.

    Blasphemy!

    ;-)

    Even some Linux distributions deliver it by defult these days

    As well as systemd as well as other software that adds additional
    bloat and
    drag to your system. What makes clang more appealing than gcc?

    Even more blasphemy: Its license which is more free than GCC's? More standards compliant? Better error messages? Less complex codebase?


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 6:05PM up 142 days, 2:26, 8 users, load averages: 0.26, 0.30, 0.31

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: A true lie to believe (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Thu Sep 5 17:07:03 2019
    Hallo Gerrit!

    Even more blasphemy: Its license which is more free than GCC's?
    More standards compliant? Better error messages? Less complex
    codebase?

    So say the LLVM people. I noticed a claim that glibc could be successfully compiled with clang, albiet with an unmentioned number of patches. I might try
    that and see if it is so. Also I noted your eglibc (Debian abandonware) was compiled with gcc. Given the age of your software on that target, i686 if I am
    not mistaken, what are the odds any of that would actually compile, especially using a clang of that vintage?

    You've piqued my curiousity and I might just try this out soon so I can see for
    myself. I already know they don't support this target so I'll have to use something more generic. :::sigh:::

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Sep 5 19:35:26 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    05 Sep 19 17:07, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    of patches. I might try that and see if it is so. Also I noted your eglibc (Debian abandonware) was compiled with gcc.

    [...]

    No-no, you're mistaking me for Paul here. I was just chiming in, distrubing your discussion.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 7:35PM up 142 days, 3:56, 8 users, load averages: 0.43, 0.40, 0.35

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: We're telling tales of communication (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Thu Sep 5 21:20:45 2019
    Hallo Gerrit!

    No-no, you're mistaking me for Paul here. I was just chiming in, distrubing your discussion.

    You're right. Obviously I am asleep at the keyboard.

    However I am still curious about glibc, and also regular kernel source, and although I have serious doubts I may still try compiling them with clang just to see for myself.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Sep 6 06:06:52 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    05 Sep 19 21:20, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:


    However I am still curious about glibc, and also regular kernel
    source, and although I have serious doubts I may still try compiling
    them with clang just to see for myself.

    As I said, saome distributions like OpenMandriva use and deliver clang as default compiler, so I expect both glibc and the kernel to be "compilable" using it.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 6:06AM up 142 days, 14:27, 8 users, load averages: 0.32, 0.39, 0.37

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: America, America the western dream is gone (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Fri Sep 6 15:35:53 2019
    Hallo Gerrit!

    As I said, saome distributions like OpenMandriva use and deliver
    clang as default compiler, so I expect both glibc and the kernel
    to be "compilable" using it.

    I've heard different, especially about the kernel source. I'll see for myself soon enough. Have you tried and if so did you use source from kernel.org and GNU?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Sep 6 21:08:52 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    06 Sep 19 15:35, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    for myself soon enough. Have you tried and if so did you use source
    from kernel.org and GNU?

    No, I didn't try it on Linux so far. FreeBSD completely switched already some time ago, I can confirm it works just fine there.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 9:08PM up 143 days, 5:29, 8 users, load averages: 0.43, 0.39, 0.34

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: Shock to the System (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Fri Sep 6 23:40:32 2019
    Hallo Gerrit!

    FreeBSD completely switched already some time ago

    According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang;

    25 February 2009 Clang/LLVM can compile a working FreeBSD kernel.
    10 June 2010 Clang/LLVM becomes integral part of FreeBSD, but default compiler is still GCC.
    12 May 2012 Clang/LLVM announced to replace GCC in FreeBSD.
    5 November 2012 Clang becomes default compiler in FreeBSD 10.x.

    I don't see any claims for a Linux kernel, nor as a default compiler on any Linux distribution. They do mention something about Debian which, given the eglibc support of days gone by, isn't really a feather in clang's cap ... if you know what I mean.

    Anyhow I have built llvm with clang in the past and I suspect it is still doable but I have serious doubts about it compiling standard Linux source from kernel.org without some major hacking/patching. Also I haven't installed clang
    on anything here yet and it'll be awhile since I am just upgrading the raspberrypi as we speak. I guesstimate some clang kernel/glibc action sometime
    early next week. For me those are the two most mission critical packages and will tell the tale.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Andrew Alt@1:261/38 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Sep 7 00:38:12 2019
    Maurice Kinal wrote to Andrew Alt <=-

    Hey Andrew!

    source code for the command and lunar modules.

    Interesting. I will definetly check that out for old times sake. I am guessing there isn't much call for Apollo Guidance Computer programmers these days.

    Probably not, perhaps you could initiate a peaceful revolution.

    you and Pascal with the minimalinux.org website

    I remember it well. Also remember you when posted in this echoarea
    before that time. This is where I met Pascal as well as you. I
    haven't talked to him since he passed on the ttylinux development keys, and you sometime before that.

    Yes, that's correct. :) I asked about "gating" ;) And then we wound up exchanging a
    tremendous amount of email.

    I reduced my screen time for a while to help manage my pain and mental health issues. It's been an ongoing struggle ever since but I did manage to get some programming done. :)

    I started meditation 10 years ago and do it pretty much daily.

    --
    -Andy


    ... GitHub == Open Source == Microsoft == wtf?
    -+- MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Sep 7 08:50:52 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    06 Sep 19 23:40, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:


    I don't see any claims for a Linux kernel, nor as a default compiler
    on any Linux distribution.

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Clang-Kernel-2018

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMandriva_Lx

    [...]
    During 2015, OpenMandriva released an alpha version of OpenMandriva Lx 2015. As
    the operating system was developed all 2015 year, in 2016, the version was released as OpenMandriva Lx 3.0 Beta.[27] This new release came with significant changes to the core system - among other things, it was the first desktop Linux distribution that was built completely with the Clang compiler instead of GCC.[28]
    [...]



    I may be wrong, but my understanding is that "completely" includes the kernel and glibc.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 8:50AM up 143 days, 17:11, 8 users, load averages: 0.38, 0.36, 0.37

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: We are the second generation (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Andrew Alt on Sun Sep 8 00:24:33 2019
    Hey Andrew!

    perhaps you could initiate a peaceful revolution

    Errrr ... let's not and say we did. Not having a cause will make it a very quiet revolution.

    It's been an ongoing struggle ever since but I did manage to get
    some programming done. :)

    That can happen. I can relate.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.2989 to Gerrit Kuehn on Sun Sep 8 00:30:29 2019
    Hey Gerrit!

    I may be wrong, but my understanding is that "completely" includes
    the kernel and glibc.

    If someone running OpenMandriva_Lx were to provide the following information;

    -={ /lib/libc.so.6 }=-
    GNU C Library (GNU libc) stable release version 2.30.
    Copyright (C) 2019 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
    There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
    PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
    Compiled by GNU CC version 9.2.0.
    libc ABIs: UNIQUE ABSOLUTE
    For bug reporting instructions, please see: <http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/bugs.html>.

    From the above we can see I'm still using gcc on aarch64.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's CanadARM - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.2989)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Fri Feb 7 20:36:16 2020
    Hallo Gerrit!

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Clang-Kernel-2018

    I had no luck with this until I upgraded to the latest git version of llvm the other day. The default master is clang-11.0.0 which managed to compile linux-5.5.2. I haven't properly compared that to the same kernel compiled by gcc-9.2.0 yet but plan to later. I am somewhat distracted upgrading to the new
    glibc-2.31 as shown below;

    -={ '<Esc>:read !/lib/libc.so.6' starts }=-
    GNU C Library (GNU libc) stable release version 2.31.
    Copyright (C) 2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
    There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
    PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
    Compiled by GNU CC version 9.2.0.
    libc ABIs: UNIQUE IFUNC ABSOLUTE
    For bug reporting instructions, please see: <https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/bugs.html>.
    -={ '<Esc>:read !/lib/libc.so.6' ends }=-

    As you can see I am booting to the glibc built by gcc and as of this writing cannot get clang to compile glibc. It (glibc-2.31 source) is currently failing
    to configure using clang-11.0.0 as it claims the compiler is too old. I somehow doubt that is true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMandriva_Lx

    2020-02-01 -> OpenMandrivaLx.4.1-plasma.x86_64.iso
    The above is the current version and the site claims to have clang-9.0.1 working as well as offereing two kernel v5 up for grabs; one compiled with gcc the other with clang. I haven't booted OpenMandrivaLx.4.1-plasma.x86_64 as of this writing and I don't see any indication of which version of glibc they are using or if indeed they are using glibc at all.

    As far as my customized x86_64-pc-linux-gnu is concerned I am still behind as far as getting a llvm to work beyond compiling a kernel. As for the latest release (llvm-9.0.1) it fails to compile due to issues with glibc-2.31 and somewhat works with 2.30 although I couldn't get that version to compile a kernel, nevermind glibc any version. Beats me exactly how OpenMandriva pulled it off ... if indeed they did manage to pull it off. I'll know more once I boot OpenMandrivaLx.4.1-plasma.

    Anyhow any REALLY USEFUL information you might be able to provide would be of great help. So far all I've found is hype with absolutely zero evidence to support the claim of a working clang that can successfully compile glibc ... with or without patching the crap out of it. In the meantime I am still more than content with gcc and friends so no real panic to get a llvm based linux system up and running. :-)

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)