So I'm looking at getting an EV and have been learning a lot about them, batteries etc. Wondering if anyone here is driving one? Has any experience with them?
Avon wrote to All <=-
So I'm looking at getting an EV and have been learning a lot about
them, batteries etc. Wondering if anyone here is driving one? Has any experience with them?
So I'm looking at getting an EV and have been learning a lot about them, batteries etc. Wondering if anyone here is driving one? Has any
experience with them?
esc wrote to Avon <=-
I have a 2018 Fiat 500E - a compliance car that was only sold in California and Oregon for a few years. Stellantis lost like $15k on
each one of these sold, it's actually a fantastic little commuter.
The downside to me is that I don't get a ton of range with this
vehicle, but it made me a believer in the technology. If you can swing getting solar on your home, it even sweetens the deal.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Avon <=-
7. Idiots in diesel trucks love to get in front and "roll coal" -
flooring it so you get swamped in diesel smoke. Idiots. They like to
park their trucks to block public chargers, too.
When they can make solar efficient enough to contribute to range, we'll
be in a good place. Toyota made a "solar roof" for the Prius, but all it did was power the interior fans.
With the price of gas nowadays, I'm doing back-of-the-envelope
efficiency, but there are a bunch of charging stations in Sacramento and
When they can make solar efficient enough to contribute to range, we'll be in a good place. Toyota made a "solar roof" for the Prius, but all it did was power the interior fans.
You must have far better pricing than we do. We're around $2/L, roughly a quart. That's mostly become our baseline and it heads up towards $2.30 from there.
You also must have far more charging stations than us too. There was a group of Journos here that made a trip from Melbourne to Sydney, ~900Km with a detour to Canberra after they got to Sydney. We have a good set of mountains in between, and they found they could only drive for 2-3hrs and then have to recharge for ~2hrs as well. A large proportion of chargers were either not compatible or wouldn't charge their vehicle at all or at a reduced charge rate. They ended up getting towed back into Sydney from Canberra.
You also must have far more charging stations than us too. There was
Around here, we have level 1 charging (110v, under 15 amps), Level 2 (220v, somewhere between 16 and 40 amps) and DC charging (480v). I can fully charge with a DC charger in around an hour - and worst case I have the gas range extender if needed. The apps can tell you which are in use,
Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I don't know how many types of charger we have. I know there are "fast" and "standard". The problem the guys in the Canberra detour ran into,
was the chargers were either broken, or not suitable for their vehicle.
Tesla has the biggest network in the US and is going to strong arm manufacturers into licensing their connector for cars - some
manufacturers have already agreed to do so.
I've got a range extender, so I could always use that, too.
I just saw a video on YouTube yesterday saying Toyota has made
significant progress developing a car engine that runs on ammonia and produces very little pollution. Supposedly this could be a considerable alternative to electric vehicles and hybrids:
Tesla has the biggest network in the US and is going to strong arm manufacturers into licensing their connector for cars - some
manufacturers have already agreed to do so.
What's your experience with the range extender? I've considered that but I
a commuter so I'm not super concerned at the end of the day, but it is nice to be able to sit in the carpool lane at any time with the DMV stickers.
I just saw a video on YouTube yesterday saying Toyota has made
significant progress developing a car engine that runs on ammonia and
produces very little pollution. Supposedly this could be a considerable
alternative to electric vehicles and hybrids:
The reason I think things like this are destined to fail are mostly because the big benefit of EV is that the car is completely agnostic to the fuel source.
In other words, an EV can plug into really any power source - solar, wind, traditional electrical grid, alternative fuel, etc., and the vehicle itself is not married to a specific fuel source.
The reason I think things like this are destined to fail are mostly because the big benefit of EV is that the car is completely agnostic to the fuel source.
In other words, an EV can plug into really any power source - solar, wind, traditional electrical grid, alternative fuel, etc., and the vehicle
Spectre wrote to esc <=-
The reason I think things like this are destined to fail are mostly because the big benefit of EV is that the car is completely agnostic to the fuel source.
They're pretty inefficient in that you're converting to
electrickery, storing or transmitting it. You jam it into
another storage medium and then you convert it back into kinetic
energy.
I don't know what, but an alternative clean high density energy
source is required.
In other words, an EV can plug into really any power source - solar, wind, traditional electrical grid, alternative fuel, etc., and the vehicle
If we suddenly switched everyone to EV... the grid would
collapse.. there's not enough capacity to have everyone trying to
charge their thing over night. That's probably not going to
change if you try to take fossil fuels out of power generation
also. Then you need to find not only more power, but some
alternative high level baseline power that's there all the time.
Nightfox wrote to esc <=-
Also, I'd wonder that the existing gas station infrastructure could probably be more easily adapted to carry ammonia - They might just need
to fill one of their tanks with ammonia instead of gasoline or diesel
and use the existing pumps to pump it.
esc wrote to Nightfox <=-
The reason I think things like this are destined to fail are mostly because the big benefit of EV is that the car is completely agnostic to the fuel source.
It's available. Nuclear. We just need to build more plants.
Spectre wrote to Gamgee <=-
It's available. Nuclear. We just need to build more plants.
Nuclear in the traditional power plant sense is hiddeously
expensive, and still has a monstrous carbon component to build.
There appears to be some hope for small modular reactors as you
could simply place one where you need extra power.
Its biggest
problem is people are scared of it, and nobody wants to live near
it. In spite of it being one of the lowest deaths/kWh modes of
generation.
Blue White wrote to esc <=-
The reason I think things like this are destined to fail are mostly because the big benefit of EV is that the car is completely agnostic to the fuel source.
The reason it is big news is because most EV power is generated
by fossil fuel, so you are trading off having the emmissions come
out of your car vs. the local coal plant.
They are not going to find enough alternate fuel to cover the
increased demand of everyone switching to EVs. Maybe one day,
but not likely in our lifetime and certainly not by 2035.
Fairly true, but in the long run is probably cheaper.
Probably true, and the solution to that is simply..... education. I would think the eco-fanatics would be leading the way on that, but somehow .... even they lack education.
Blue White wrote to esc <=-
The reason it is big news is because most EV power is generated by
fossil fuel, so you are trading off having the emmissions come out of
your car vs. the local coal plant.
Spectre wrote to Gamgee <=-
Fairly true, but in the long run is probably cheaper.
Apparently not... at least for some ~50 years of operation.. the
up front costs outweigh any saving in actual power generation for
a large proportion of your traditional reactors operational life.
Sabine Hossenfelder popped out an interesting video on it
recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kahih8RT1k
One of the other things that popped up was if we turn heavily to
fission based generation we only have sufficient fuel for a very
limited time.. 10-20 years worth of uranium.
Probably true, and the solution to that is simply..... education. I would think the eco-fanatics would be leading the way on that, but somehow .... even they lack education.
Not sure education is sufficient to overcome greenwashing of
nuclear anything being "Baaahhhhhd". Unfortunately education is
probably still going to scare some proportion of the population
off the idea as well. Greenies, especially modern ones seem to
be less interested in science and education, compared to blindly
following some crackpot, or crackpot ideas. Its obtained
something of a religious fervor.
The reason it is big news is because most EV power is generated by fossil fuel, so you are trading off having the emmissions come out of your car vs. the local coal plant.
They are not going to find enough alternate fuel to cover the increased demand of everyone switching to EVs. Maybe one day, but not likely in
our lifetime and certainly not by 2035.
What would be better for the environment, though - 1000 internal combustion engines or 1000 EVs pulling energy from a grid consisting of coal, wind, and solar?
Sure, now it's mostly coal. Renewable is picking up momentum.
TL;DR ... That's more of just a question of "green-ness", anyway.
Got to disagree with that completely. These sources would agree with
Those estimates run from 80 - 200 years, and maybe MUCH longer (breeder reactors). In my opinion, that is long enough for us to get things
reactors). In my opinion, that is long enough for us to get things figured out and use another source, such as thorium; or hopefully,
fusion.
I still stand firmly in the camp of nuclear as the solution.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Blue White <=-
What would be better for the environment, though - 1000 internal
combustion engines or 1000 EVs pulling energy from a grid consisting
of
coal, wind, and solar?
Sure, now it's mostly coal. Renewable is picking up momentum.
hollowone wrote to Blue White <=-
I agree. I'm more interested in remote work as a factor that can
trigger lower emissions than this.. even if I include continual suburbanization as disturbing argument.
and more local shopping plus better logistics to deliver goods and services locally may both trigger accelerated adoption of EVs for just local, super short distance commuting and less need for commuting you can't do by bike anyway.
My grand parents when they were young they were all commuting by bikes more than cars.. I think I'll be a grand father to kids who while
adults become more stick to bikes and scooters than cars too..
-h1
... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere
copy.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
What would be better for the environment, though - 1000 internal combustion engines or 1000 EVs pulling energy from a grid consisting of coal, wind, and solar?
Sure, now it's mostly coal. Renewable is picking up momentum.
Even at the poor nominal efficieny of your ICE, given the laws of thermodynamics in the power generation chain, I expect ICE is still
going to be better. Its pretty unlikely renewables will ever be able supply majority power. Given that you're going to wildly increase power consumption by giving everyone an EV and you're taking away some of the best possible generation we have.
More people need to travel less
The idea that "all those cars pollute so much" is only true if you
accept the myth that carbon dioxide is a "pollutant".
Best commute ever? The Oakland-San Francisco ferry. A nice, relaxed
cruise in a catamaran ferry with table seating, coffee and donuts in the morning, and a view of the sun going down behind downtown San Francisco
as the ferry took off under the bay bridge. Grab a beer from the bar, go to the upper deck, and on the odd Thursday night listen to "Ship of
Fools" a band made up of long-time ferry riders.
Adept wrote to Dr. What <=-
I guess? I mean, cars still pollute in a variety of other ways. Though, really, the better long-term solution is trains, since they're wildly
more efficient.
That said, while I'm unlikely to be directly injured from a higher
carbon dioxide level, there _is_ the fairly-well-documented history of
the planet where spiking carbon dioxide levels has lead to (or, at the least, is very strongly correlated with) apocalyptic species die offs something like 6 times in the history of the Earth.
But that's just carbon dioxide facts,
So I'm looking at getting an EV and have been learning a lot about them, batteries etc. Wondering if anyone here is driving one? Has any
experience with them?
Nightfox wrote to esc <=-
Also, I'd wonder that the existing gas station infrastructure could probably be more easily adapted to carry ammonia - They might just ne to fill one of their tanks with ammonia instead of gasoline or diesel and use the existing pumps to pump it.
The smart coffee shop will set up fast DC chargers outside their shops,
so people can come in and buy a coffee/pastry/hang out while their car charges. Imagine if you could charge your car at any Starbucks?
I am told the fast chargers are about USD $30k/each installed. Is that a viable investment to gain customers? The math could be enlightening.
The problem is that the passenger train infrastructure has long been dismantled with the exception of some long-range travel.
least, is very strongly correlated with) apocalyptic species die offs something like 6 times in the history of the Earth.They are somewhat correct. When that asteroid hit the planet, it set
But that's just carbon dioxide facts,No. That's CO2 propaganda.
lots in various commercial zones. Then, private companies wouldn't have
to worry about EV charging stations, similar to how private companies currently don't worry about which gas stations are nearby.
Adept wrote to Dr. What <=-
I mean, any solution that changes how people move around (including building more lanes for cars or anything involving EVs) requires a
large amount of investment.
But, yes, the solution for, "take more trains" is not a personal
choice, in the US, as it is in much of Europe.
But of the extinction events in Earth's history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
...evidently there's reason to think that increases or decreases in atmospheric carbon levels played a role.
Anyway, clearly we have to stop. I tried to stick to straight facts
rather than including my opinions, but that was still called
propaganda.
lots in various commercial zones. Then, private companies wouldn't have
to worry about EV charging stations, similar to how private companies
currently don't worry about which gas stations are nearby.
Your description sounded an awful lot like the various rest stops with gas stations, bathrooms, food, and caffeinated beverages.
But it also requires a large number of people who need to go from Point
A to Point B (and probably back) in order to be profitable enough.
Most places in Europe are much smaller. I think most countries in the
EU are about the same size as just a state here in the U.S.
But there's still a question about cause and effect. Did the extinction event happen because of CO2 levels, or did CO2 levels rise because of
the extinction event?
When you post facts, I won't call them propaganda.
Yeah, my idea was based on the fact that gas stations are independently owned, so perhaps EV charging stations for parking lots should be independently owned.
Adept wrote to Dr. What <=-
I suppose, but _roads_ aren't profitable, so I'm not sure why trains
have to be.
That said, there are reasons why the more-useful lines being built are along the East Coast and from SF to LA.
But that's long-distance. I tend to think that shorter-distance trains
are generally more interesting, anyway. As I'm not going to commute on
a daily basis from LA to SF, but going from San Jose to SF (or vice
versa) is at least somewhat reasonable.
When you post facts, I won't call them propaganda.
*sigh*.
As usual, I regret engaging. My apologies to anyone I annoyed by
engaging.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
And San Francisco is _much_ too crowded for cars to reliably be much
fun to have around. I lived in the vicinity for a bit, and, yeah, you _can_ have a car, but you'll invariably end up paying expensive parking tickets for one reason or another.
I'm sad that BART doesn't cover more areas. E.g., New York seems to
have multiple redundant lines, and the SF side of things does is a mish-mash of MUNI trains and buses. E.g., if you want to take BART into the City, but want to go to Fisherman's Wharf / Pier 39 for a tourist experience, you'll likely have to pop out at the last stop before the
bay, then get on a 1930s-era museum street car that's half experience
and half public transit. (and, no, I do not mean the famous trolleys. These are different pieces of old equipment, brought from Italy or elsewhere.)
Or else walk for 40 minutes, and have to walk back later.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
k9zw wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I am told the fast chargers are about USD $30k/each installed. Is that
a viable investment to gain customers? The math could be enlightening.
k9zw wrote to Avon <=-
Pros
Goes like stink
Very quiet
Really nice car to drive
All the usually solid Volvo characterists
Cons
Limited range, that is really limited by overly cold or hot weather
Realistic charging needs require an expensive charger
Range anxity (in spades)
XC40 is smaller than we should have picked - the XC60 would be better
Good Chargers cost money (about USD $800/each) and electrician's help
(one ran $600 and other $180 to install)
are crazy expensive (50% of the cost of the car)
The included charger
is a joke, takes 20+ hours to recharge if you are lucky
--- Steve K9ZW via SPOT BBS
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SPOT BBS / k9zw (21:1/224)
Or else walk for 40 minutes, and have to walk back later.
I suppose, but _roads_ aren't profitable, so I'm not sure why trains have to be.
But that's long-distance. I tend to think that shorter-distance trains are generally more interesting, anyway. As I'm not going to commute on a daily basis from LA to SF, but going from San Jose to SF (or vice versa) is at least somewhat reasonable.
But there's still a question about cause and effect. Did the extinction event happen because of CO2 levels, or did CO2 levels rise because of
the extinction event?
I think there was some evidence that the change in CO2 levels came before the extinction events, but, yeah, if it's just two things at the same time, then, sure, harder to tell.
*sigh*.
As usual, I regret engaging. My apologies to anyone I annoyed by
I just bought a pre-owned Renault Zoe and will get it on Friday :)
I will use it mainly for driving to work and in the nearby area, we
also have a Toyota Yaris hybrid for longer distances.
So I don't really have experience yet, but I hope to have it soon :)
I just bought a used 2018 BMW i3 with range extender, 14K miles. They're great little "city" cars perfectly capable of the occasional trip. It's
I have a 2018 Fiat 500E - a compliance car that was only sold in California and Oregon for a few years. Stellantis lost like $15k on each one of these sold, it's actually a fantastic little commuter.
The downside to me is that I don't get a ton of range with this vehicle, but it made me a believer in the technology. If you can swing getting solar on your home, it even sweetens the deal.
an actual standard, and most cars take that. There's a CCS plug that supports J1772 fast charging, then CHAdeMO, which supports some japanese brands, and Tesla has their own.
But that's just carbon dioxide facts, and this is definitely not the
place for opinions on such topics, as dealing with climate change is
much too much of a political topic to be able to talk about it much,
here.
Which, honestly, is why it's been good that we've been talking about how having EVs will affect us personally. And hopefully Avon gets something that fits his needs well.
I have a Volvo XC40 Recharge - a full battery EV.
Pros
Goes like stink
Cons
Limited range, that is really limited by overly cold or hot weather Realistic charging needs require an expensive charger
Range anxity (in spades)
Good Chargers cost money (about USD $800/each) and electrician's help
(one ran $600 and other $180 to install)
As usual, I regret engaging. My apologies to anyone I annoyed by
engaging.
The reality is that San Franciscans rarely used to leave SF. They felt like they had everything they could want in the City, so why leave?
120K for 4 chargers, plus electricity - and a EV owner is going to go in and nurse a small coffee for 30 minutes.
I would hazard to suggest generally the road may be slightly cheaper as after its built you're not supplying the rolling stock. Thats up to them as use it. While the train requires more infrastructure inputs to keep
on working.
You just do what you do, right or wrong or somewhere in between your
input has value. Don't mind the cranky section, not sure why they're
I think we've landed in our household at an acceptable place for cost vs range etc.. the main drivers for us to change were cost to maintain our current ICE cars and the rapidly climbing costs of petrol on this side
of the globe. At the moment 91 octane is around $2.89 a litre and 95 retails for $3.09 ... there's a website called gaspy.nz that tracks it.
I like reading your posts. Don't apologise, if people are annoyed by
your posts that's really their problem, because you've always been thoughtful and even handed.
But I guess people probably oftentimes didn't even leave their _neighborhoods_, so traveling to the other side of the City could reasonably be a longer trip, I imagine.
And it's been interesting hearing about people's experiences with their EVs, whether getting or using them.
Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Tomorrow we have someone coming to install a Wallbox unit. I'll be shutting down 1/100 and 1/10 HUBs over that time while the sparky does
his thing. I have posted an update in FSX_NET about that outage. :)
Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 16 Oct 2023 at 06:34a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...
both these are here in New Zealand but I think CCS is the main one now, some of the Nissan Leaf's are running the CHAdeMo ones. I think :)
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
But I guess people probably oftentimes didn't even leave their _neighborhoods_, so traveling to the other side of the City could reasonably be a longer trip, I imagine.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
120K for 4 chargers, plus electricity - and a EV owner is going to go in and nurse a small coffee for 30 minutes.
On the other hand, as long as the EV owners pay for charging, nursing a small coffee for 30 minutes might be profitable for other reasons.
But, yeah, probably isn't great on its own.
Avon wrote to esc <=-
Seems to me people (where they are able) are buying EVs with the
longest range they can. Especially if the shorter range version is only 3-4k difference etc.
I _do_ think it's interesting that people who buy EVs tend to continue buying EVs. I suppose that means it's not as prohibitively expensive or unreasonable than detractors would have you think!
Since home broadband is so fast these days, I wonder how many people *rely* on cafe broadband for fast internet access and spend all day working there?
If you've bought an EV obviously you're already on the kool aid, so its probably not a long stretch to continue doing so. Here any new car is hideously expensive, so much so I've never bought one, and therein is
the rub. It'll be the "well off" that generally buy them, are they likely to be able to afford the extra 25% to join electric utopia probably. While for the rest of us plebs its enough to be a deal breaker.
I _do_ think it's interesting that people who buy EVs tend to continue buying EVs. I suppose that means it's not as prohibitively expensive or unreasonable than detractors would have you think!
On the other hand, people who have had an EV long enough to get a new
one have certainly seen the market expand and get relatively cheaper
while having an EV.
And ICE cars are... not cheap, either, when getting a new one.
I asked my electrician when he wanted to shut power down to install my
240/20 circuit, and he told me there was no need. He did the connection
in about 30 minutes with no power interruption.
Leafs (Leaves?) have both CHAdeMo and J1772, if I'm not mistaken - at least in the US.
Nice!
Well, that it's making sense for you, for what it is.
Gas prices, maybe not so much, at least when you're having to pay it.
Buying a range extender was a bridge vehicle for me, a way to test the
twice the power and half the weight. The Toyota head units are
starting to show their age, with no map updates since 2014 and "dead"
probably not a long stretch to continue doing so. Here any new car is hideously expensive, so much so I've never bought one, and therein is
the rub. It'll be the "well off" that generally buy them, are they likely to be able to afford the extra 25% to join electric utopia probably. While for the rest of us plebs its enough to be a deal breaker.
Regarding the kool aid, I could say the same about people that prefer ICE vehicles. They've just been drinking it longer :P
Agreed about any new car being too costly these days. That said the playing field for ICE vs EV is leveling out. My Fiat 500E cost me $15k.
Since home broadband is so fast these days, I wonder how many people *rely* on cafe broadband for fast internet access and spend all day working there?
Since home broadband is so fast these days, I wonder how many people
*rely* on cafe broadband for fast internet access and spend all day
working there?
I'd be surprised if folks rely on it, I suspect it's probably just a feature of extroversion - wanting to be around other people and hustle and bustle.
What would be better for the environment, though - 1000 internal
combustion engines or 1000 EVs pulling energy from a grid consisting of
coal, wind, and solar?
I guess? I mean, cars still pollute in a variety of other ways. Though, real
I am told the fast chargers are about USD $30k/each installed. Is that a vi
I suppose, but _roads_ aren't profitable, so I'm not sure why trains have to
ON a practical level, the problem with trains is there is no way on
earth to have rails run to half the places that need means of
transport. Nobody is ever building a train station in a 20 miles radius from where I live. If I need to go work from here I will need to use something else.
I _do_ think it's interesting that people who buy EVs tend to continue buying EVs. I suppose that means it's not as prohibitively expens
Also you need to pass TSA-like access controls to board certain trains here. If I am a paying customer I am not gonna consent to that, period.
Buses still fall so short, though, because you can't count on them being available when you need them. If your shcedules are not flexible you
many still not be able to take the bus at all.
Main reason why services need to be profitable is that they need to be sustainable. Otherwise you will end up hitting a crisis sooner rather
than later.
don't get me wrong.. it was a pleasant way to travel (there at least!)
.. but imo advocating for trains-only transport pretty much puts
everyone who doesn't want to commute 4 hours a day (and every business they use) into a very local little box.
I feel like I'm fairly introverted, but if I were working from home for many days in a row, I might feel like it would be refreshing to go out
and work at a cafe.
But having to have big enough roads and large enough parking lots for everyone to live away from a city, but commute in every day... Just leads to a really inefficient city. The amount of cities where it's half parking lots instead of things that generate something more useful...
I feel like I'm fairly introverted, but if I were working from home for
many days in a row, I might feel like it would be refreshing to go out
and work at a cafe.
Yeah, I get that. I'm introverted myself but do enjoy people watching from time to time.
Damn it sounds creepy when I put it that way hehe
In my area, I've even seen a few apartment complexes that don't appear
to have a parking lot at all. I really doubt nobody who lives there
On a completely seperate note.. our roads a maintained via fuel excise, they're starting to get ready to tax EV's to support the same, on a Km rate of some sort.
Since home broadband is so fast these days, I wonder how many people *rely* on cafe broadband for fast internet access and spend all day working there?
Sometimes I feel like I wouldn't mind working from a cafe, especially if
I had been working from home for a while. However, if I only bought one thing to drink and sat there taking up a seat all day, I'd feel like
they might not like that. I think they'd rather have seats available
for other paying customers.
But having to have big enough roads and large enough parking lots for everyone to live away from a city, but commute in every day... Just l to a really inefficient city. The amount of cities where it's half pa
One thing that I'd say is one of my peeves is having to drive somewhere and having nowhere to park my car at the place. IMO it is something
In my area, I've even seen a few apartment complexes that don't appear
to have a parking lot at all. I really doubt nobody who lives there assigned parking space. It almost feels like they don't expect
residents to have a car, which I think is a bit unreasonable.
Tacking on to this note, an interesting aspect about EV's is that they typically weight significantly more than ICE cars no? Would this result in more wear and tear on the roads, resulting in more spent on
So how are they planning on implementing that tax? Do they send someone to check on your odometer and then tax you based on the mileage?
Yeah. I think the general idea is that with a train-centric idea, there's dense housing in the vicinity of the various train stations, and generally a commercial district as well (that can be supported by the more-dense population).
And, certainly, rental bikes and scooters can solve some problems.
In my area, I've even seen a few apartment complexes that don't appear
to have a parking lot at all. I really doubt nobody who lives there
owns a car, and I have to wonder where those who live there and own a
car park their car when they're home. It already bothers me that the apartment complex I currently live in charges $35 per month for an assigned parking space. It almost feels like they don't expect
residents to have a car, which I think is a bit unreasonable.
Scooters on the other hand, have been involved in a number of single vehicle fatalities. They're not even having to hit another car to kill themselves. There are considerations going on about requiring a license
to use one.
I was looking for a new house and there was a gorgeous development. Loved the house. Then, the landlord told us that the HOA said no parking in driveways or on the street at night, you had to park two streets over and parallel park.
That was such a red flag for me. First, there's no way I would agree to put up with that. No parking in your own driveway?! For what??? Second, this suggests to me that there are other silly HOA things I'd have to put up with.
What I like to do is cafe hop every 2-3 hours. Gives your legs a stretch, alleviates that feeling like you are mooching off their wifi and changes up the scenery a bit. In terms of that, there's something psychological where people will be more likely to go in a cafe if it isn't empty, so by you being there taking up a table you might actually increase their business.
esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I'd be surprised if folks rely on it, I suspect it's probably just a feature of extroversion - wanting to be around other people and hustle
and bustle.
Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
On 24 Oct 2023 at 09:25a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...
Buying a range extender was a bridge vehicle for me, a way to test the
How does this device work? Is it a unit you take with you to plug into your EV to add range?
I've yet to experience that but the Kia brand (I'm guessing the BYD one also) seem to have updates coming out from time to time. I think I may
be able to download and apply them via USB to the vehicle.
esc wrote to Adept <=-
But I guess people probably oftentimes didn't even leave their _neighborhoods_, so traveling to the other side of the City could reasonably be a longer trip, I imagine.
This is my experience with all my SF friends :)
esc wrote to Adept <=-
I _do_ think it's interesting that people who buy EVs tend to continue buying EVs. I suppose that means it's not as prohibitively expensive or unreasonable than detractors would have you think!
Adept wrote to esc <=-
And ICE cars are... not cheap, either, when getting a new one.
StormTrooper wrote to esc <=-
the rub. It'll be the "well off" that generally buy them, are they likely to be able to afford the extra 25% to join electric utopia probably. While for the rest of us plebs its enough to be a deal breaker.
esc wrote to StormTrooper <=-
Agreed about any new car being too costly these days. That said the playing field for ICE vs EV is leveling out. My Fiat 500E cost me $15k.
unc0nnected wrote to Adept <=-
Might compromise on a plugin hybrid for another 2 years and then see
what advancements in battery tech do for the range in the 2026 models
unc0nnected wrote to Spectre <=-
Tacking on to this note, an interesting aspect about EV's is that they typically weight significantly more than ICE cars no? Would this
result in more wear and tear on the roads, resulting in more spent on maintaining those roads or is it all a drop in the bucket next to what
the big rigs do on a regular basis?
Spectre wrote to unc0nnected <=-
They also tend to be harder on tyres too.. I suspect the wear and tear
on roads they're considering are suburban streets where you're not normally going to see anything more than maybe an 8ton truck rarely... while the extra weight in the EV on an ongoing basis will contribute significantly more.
I have no idea.. and it gets more interesting... Apparently charging a
km rate for travel is somehow against our "constitution".
that came about it just popped up in the news, at the same time, I
think its 2 or 3 states have been charging said tax already the last couple of years.
Our registration requirements vary wildly from state to state here, so it'll probably be every man for himself for some time until someone figures out a way to make it work. Some require inspections and roadworthys yearly others only on transfer and everything else is just
as wacky. If they wanted to check the Km's traveled for some it would just be a matter of read the odometer at inspection, others I have no idea. A flat charge per vehicle would probably be the next thing that they try. Of course that'll penalise some and others will get off
cheap.
Spec
*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)
In my area, I've even seen a few apartment complexes that don't appear
to have a parking lot at all. I really doubt nobody who lives there owns
a car, and I have to wonder where those who live there and own a car park
their car when they're home. It already bothers me that the apartment
complex I currently live in charges $35 per month for an assigned parking
space. It almost feels like they don't expect residents to have a car,
which I think is a bit unreasonable.
I mean, if a parking garage is the most-profitable use of the land, theoretically a parking garage will spring up. And people will pay extra for the privilege.
And, if being able to park their car at the apartment complex is worth it to people, then they'll probably pay for it at a different apartment complex that has parking.
It seems odd to mandate parking if parking isn't profitable. And the point when there isn't a lot of parking around, but there are a lot of people around, then that's the point when oftentimes people don't own a car.
Interesting. Personally, I don't remember ever preferring a particular cafe because it wasn't empty.
At my first job, I was living in the outer sunset and commuting to
an office near Pier 39. It took my longer riding the N Judah and a
shuttle to the office than people coming in from Walnut Creek!
We got a nice letter apologizing/not apologizing for violating their
privacy policy and providing a FREE COMPLIMENTARY anti-static bag to
keep your transponder in when not paying tolls.
I guarantee that any mileage-tracking system will be misused.
apartment complex, and that was the first time I ever saw an apartment complex that charged extra for a parking space. Before that, all the
of your apartment lease. The fact is that people usually have a car to get around, and they need a place to park their car. What seems odd to
me is charging extra for a parking space. It's not unusual for people to have a car..
IF an apartment complex is going to charge extra for an assigned parking space, then maybe they could charge extra for being allowed to use specific walkways within the apartment complex. Or maybe they could charge extra for being able to lock your apartment door. Or maybe they could charge extra for being able to open your windows. Charging extra for normal everyday things can get a bit ridiculous. It reminds me of
IF an apartment complex is going to charge extra for an assigned parking
space, then maybe they could charge extra for being allowed to use
specific walkways within the apartment complex. Or maybe they could
charge extra for being able to lock your apartment door. Or maybe they
could charge extra for being able to open your windows. Charging extra
for normal everyday things can get a bit ridiculous. It reminds me of
I don't view having exclusive right to a parking spot as a "normal everyday thing" that should be included as part of every apartment.
But I have spent a lot of time not owning a car.
But being able to lock the door or open the windows? Have you _ever_ known someone to never use those things?
A 2014 Corolla weight 2820 pounds, a 2014 Prius 3042, the plug-in Prius
is 3165. It's not that much of a difference. I drove 180K miles on my
Prius and didn't notice any exceptional tire wear - I still got 70K
miles on a set of Michelin Defenders (great tires, BTW) and they still
had tread left.
That's... not a train problem, though it _is_ interesting how much more thin
So how are they planning on implementing that tax? Do they send someone to check on your odometer and then tax you based on the mileage?
where people will be more likely to go in a cafe if it isn't empty, s
Interesting. Personally, I don't remember ever preferring a particular cafe because it wasn't empty.
That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those houses not have garages?
As a recent EV buyer, I'm guessing some of it has to do with range
anxiety and not knowing enough about public ev charging.
The lack of service needed is nice and the lack of anything to go wrong.
I'll probably get another EV when this one's turn is up, given that the
EV charging landscape is improving and so are ranges.
Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger
Over here the government offered a $7000 rebate on an new EV
purchased... so that has made quite an impact on the uptake and also motivated us to look at making the switch.
Certainly not saying the whole EV thing is for everyone but for folks
Tha amount of people paying 3x what I paid for a used EV to drive
around a SUV or Ford truck would undercut that assumption. I'm
surrounded by moms driving 1 or 2 kids around in new-ish 7 passenger
behemoths.
Aren't they limited to 20kph?
Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming that was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.
Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger
I mean, this car is _tiny_, pound for pound it's still one of the lighter cars on the road. Kinda feels like we're splittin hairs here ;)
That's... not a train problem, though it _is_ interesting how much moreIt is not a border control. You pick a train from one city to the next, you have your luggagge and belongins scanned etc etc.
sliding into gutters... 20Kph is roughly double the accepted running speed for a human. As always its not the speed that kills its the
The bulk of local fatalities have been head injuries (cue Midnight Oil). Usually younger people, some wrapped around street sign posts, some
Assuming its the metallic looking ones, they're metal coated and conductive. In themselves probably not much of a "Farraday Cage" without grounding it to something to sink whatever energy they pick up.
That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those
houses not have garages?
Yes, however tiny garages and no basements. Most Californians tend to use their garage as storage space since there are no basements.
I guess it would be a Farraday bag, in this case, and I'm thinking the grounding requirements would be met by the air and/or whatever is touching them, since it's not like the radio waves being blocked require high energy.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
It's also kinda weird, with SF -- it's not _especially_ hilly, if you stick to the outside bits on the east and north. But if you go over the center portions, it's... frightening for someone who's from a cold
place and imagines the place with ice.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming that was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.
That said, with the mileage-tracking system, I was imagining something more along the lines of, when you get your smog check done, they also write down your current mileage, and you pay accordingly.
Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
A 2014 Corolla weight 2820 pounds, a 2014 Prius 3042, the plug-in Prius
is 3165. It's not that much of a difference. I drove 180K miles on my
Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger batter y packs for the range anxiety crowd. Thats like driving around with 2-3 extra people in your car before you put anyone in there...
Prius and didn't notice any exceptional tire wear - I still got 70K
miles on a set of Michelin Defenders (great tires, BTW) and they still
had tread left.
Nice work, I have to freely admit I don't even know what I get out of
the tyres I'm using.. never measured..
Spec
*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: Good Luck and drive offensively! (21:3/101)
esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Which is awesome, I concur. My Fiat only requires tires and brakes (and thanks to regen braking, my brakes only engage when I hit 6mph or slam
on them, so hypothetically my pads will last forever). I loathe going
to car dealerships for service so this is a big plus for me :P
Yeah, we're going to keep our little around town commuter until it
blows up or the batteries die or whatever happens to it lol. After that we'll likely get another small commuter. It's just so easy, you can
park it anywhere, it's actually a blast to drive, don't have to pay for gas. Oh, there are unexpected additional benefits, like the air conditioner working immediately. Anywho, yeah, I dig having an EV. But
we also have an SUV that is traditional ICE but we need the space since
I have to haul lumber and tools and things like that.
StormTrooper wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Shrug. The arse tends to fall out of EV prices faster due to battery longevity concerns. Newish? It's still probably already depreciated
some ~40% from new.
The type of vehicle is going to be horses for courses... I happen to
have one of those horrible 7 seater beasts... I have it not because I
fill it with people on a daily basis, but because if I have to move the whole family in one go it's the only way without taking 2 vehicles. On the flip side the thing I have is only a 4cyl powered job.
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to unc0nnected <=-
Drop in the bucket. I drive interstate 80 up to Donner Summit
regularly, and the combination of ice, snow and trucks have torn up
the slow lanes.
Nightfox wrote to esc <=-
That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do
those houses not have garages?
That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those
houses not have garages?
Since I married, I've never been able to fit my car into any of the garages we've had.
My new house doesn't have a garage! We have a covered carport and an internal storage room that runs the width of the house. It's a much nicer arrangement.
Yeah, but the 500e is a full EV. The original poster was talking about hybrids, if memory serves. Much smaller batteries, but they have a gas engine and an electric motor.
We had similar here for a bit as part of the plan to EV the unwilling population. It did depend on the list price of the vehicle in question though. It was only on new cars and it was ultimately nixed on the basis it wasn't helping anyone that couldn't afford a car to buy one, only subsidising those that already could.
Our somewhat brain dead poli's can't make up their minds.
I can see there are going to be segments where it makes sense. On close inspection it doesn't appear to be the panacea that the electric
utopians would have you believe though. City, for cleaner local air, in smaller vehicles for shorter convenience drives. These appear to be
things they do well.
Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming th was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.
The transponder would go beep beep when you went through the toll booth, but no beeps when in the bag. That's as far as I researched it. :)
That said, with the mileage-tracking system, I was imagining somethin more along the lines of, when you get your smog check done, they also write down your current mileage, and you pay accordingly.
Oh, no - they wanted some sort of tamper-proof transponder mounted in
the car. Real-time location data with no consequences for misuse.
Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other
options, I suppose.
I decided the camry was odd, because they seem to have become the volvo with the bowls hat on the rear shelf of the 2020s... bloody camry
drivers :)
Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other
Batteries. They're heavy.
Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other
Batteries. They're heavy.
Granted and its the bulk of the extra weight in EVs but I don't quite
get why there's a ~250Kg variation in the infernal combustion versions over the fixed 1655kg for the Hybrid...
Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
At this stage we're getting a couple of vehicles. An EV6 and a BYD Dolphin.
I've arranged one with our current retail supplier and will have better kWh rates from 9pm to 7am.
Tomorrow we have someone coming to install a Wallbox unit. I'll be shutting down 1/100 and 1/10 HUBs over that time while the sparky does
his thing. I have posted an update in FSX_NET about that outage. :)
Yes it's a brave new world for us but I'm looking forward to being part
of it.
We're still waiting for the BYD Dolphin here in the UK. A good buy with the Kia EV6, that is an awesome car with a great range. Well chosen in both cases. I have bought myself a 2nd-hand 2014 model Nissan Leaf Tekna
If you have some static batteries (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) at your house, this would also be the best time to charge them so you have cheap power during your peak.
Tomorrow we have someone coming to install a Wallbox unit. I'll be
Welcome to EVlution!
| Sysop: | digital man |
|---|---|
| Location: | Riverside County, California |
| Users: | 1,038 |
| Nodes: | 15 (0 / 15) |
| Uptime: | 120:02:03 |
| Calls: | 236,131 |
| Files: | 60,372 |
| D/L today: |
7 files (165K bytes) |
| Messages: | 290,352 |