• Keep cool USA and European folks

    From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Sun Jul 16 15:59:11 2023
    Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some reprieve soon.

    Over here we just took delivery of another load of firewood and I'm still lugging it into the house each night to burn it. The joys.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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  • From Zip@21:1/202 to Avon on Sun Jul 16 07:53:11 2023
    Hello Avon!

    On 16 Jul 2023, Avon said the following...

    Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some
    reprieve soon.

    Thanks! Hot and humid here (although not nearly as bad here as in the more central parts of Europe), and vegetation could use some rain for sure...

    Over here we just took delivery of another load of firewood and I'm still lugging it into the house each night to burn it. The joys.

    Sounds cozy! :)

    Best regards
    Zip

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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Avon on Sun Jul 16 15:43:57 2023
    Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some
    reprieve soon.

    Today's projected high is "only" 39C (102F-ish), where I'm currently at, in Southern California.

    And, since I basically don't have to go outside, unless it's to my rental car, it's perfectly pleasant.

    It was previously predicted that it was going to be 43C today, but thankfully for those who have to suffer outdoor temperatures here, it's at least a little bit further from record highs.

    But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

    Though I will be glad to get back to Germany, for green plants and hopefully better air quality, where it's slightly more pleasant to take a walk outside.

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Avon on Sun Jul 16 09:39:00 2023
    Avon wrote to All <=-

    Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side
    of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some reprieve soon.

    I'm on the California coast, and we're on a sliver of land with a
    reprieve from the heat. Friends of ours came from the San Francisco bay
    area yesterday to escape the heat at our house - it was 40C at their
    house and a comfortable 24c here with a nice ocean breeze.



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  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Adept on Sun Jul 16 12:40:30 2023
    BY: Adept (21:2/108)

    |11A|09> |10Today's projected high is "only" 39C (102F-ish), where I'm currently at,|07
    |11A|09> |10in Southern California.|07
    Im going to a concert this evening in Hollywood. Oh vey! im packing my sunscreen.


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  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Sun Jul 16 21:08:03 2023
    And, since I basically don't have to go outside, unless it's to my
    rental car, it's perfectly pleasant.

    It was >100F today where I live, and I got to help my wife set up and tear down a stall for an art show. And I sunburn very easily. It was ... a day. lol.

    We're in the Bay Area, but we are considering moving to SoCal in the next month or two. We're looking to move close to the water, though, to keep the temps more consistent. Naturally the costs increase the closer you are to water but it's just the two of us and a dog so we don't need much.

    But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
    without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

    I could never go without AC at this point, I'm completely spoiled.

    My friend lives in Las Vegas and has solar. He's been running his AC 24/7 all summer. His utility bill last month was $12.00. So the lesson here is, go solar if you like AC!

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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Mon Jul 17 07:42:00 2023
    Adept wrote to Avon <=-

    But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
    without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.


    I always think of a guy I knew in high school. Joined the army as soon
    as he turned 18, the summer he graduated from high school. Was shipped
    off to Fort Benning, GA for basic training. In August. 90 degree temps,
    80 percent humidity.

    I sweat just imagining him running in fatigues, a t-shirt and combat
    boots.




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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Mon Jul 17 07:53:00 2023
    esc wrote to Adept <=-

    We're in the Bay Area, but we are considering moving to SoCal in the
    next month or two. We're looking to move close to the water, though, to keep the temps more consistent.

    How far south are you thinking of going?

    I moved to the Califormia coast in 2015, and I'm glad I did so. Cooler
    weather, fog you can usually set your watch by, and more consistent
    temps, as you're looking for.

    During 2020-2021, we saw a ton of people move "over the hill" from San
    Jose to Santa Cruz/Capitola/Aptos, when people realized you could work
    from home and buy a hell of a lot more out here - and hopefully they're
    enjoying the beach lifestyle.

    Unfortunately for them, real estate prices, which lagged behind the bay
    area, seem to be catching up.



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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Mon Jul 17 14:53:35 2023
    It was >100F today where I live, and I got to help my wife set up and
    tear down a stall for an art show. And I sunburn very easily. It was ...
    a day. lol.

    Yeah, that sounds rough. Was the art show still well-attended, despite the heat?

    We're in the Bay Area, but we are considering moving to SoCal in the
    next month or two. We're looking to move close to the water, though, to keep the temps more consistent. Naturally the costs increase the closer

    Yeah, inland is... rough. But there are reasons why most of the people live closer to the coast, and this is where there are a _lot_ of warehouses.

    I could never go without AC at this point, I'm completely spoiled.

    Yeah, if I had any choice in the matter...

    I guess there are probably still some AC possibilities in Germany, but society is largely not set up for them. So a bit more of a challenge. And, at this point I'm just renting a room, so making more permanent changes seems unlikely.

    My friend lives in Las Vegas and has solar. He's been running his AC
    24/7 all summer. His utility bill last month was $12.00. So the lesson here is, go solar if you like AC!

    Well, if you also live in a place where the hot times are also super sunny.

    Solar in Las Vegas sounds like it'd work _way_ better than most other places.

    But I suppose it provides power anywhere, as long as there's sunshine.

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to esc on Mon Jul 17 10:17:00 2023
    esc wrote to Adept <=-

    But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
    without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

    I could never go without AC at this point, I'm completely
    spoiled.

    My friend lives in Las Vegas and has solar. He's been running his
    AC 24/7 all summer. His utility bill last month was $12.00. So
    the lesson here is, go solar if you like AC!

    But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay
    for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
    savings on the utility bill)?

    Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)



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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Gamgee on Mon Jul 17 18:29:33 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: Gamgee to esc on Mon Jul 17 2023 10:17 am

    But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay
    for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
    savings on the utility bill)?

    Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

    Actually, modern solar may actually be able to recoup costs before you need big maintenance expenses, but you do need a badass apocalypse-class setup for it to be really worth it.

    A lot of people in Spain invested in 3k EUR solar arrays without battery packs. When you add up the power they produce for you and the discount money you get by selling surpluss power to the grid, I think an average house here may save 50% of its power bill tops during the first years, and only in favorable months.

    If your house uses electricity for either heating or air conditioning, I don't think a 3k EUR solar array is gonna make a dent in your power bill, though.
    You will save some money and will recoup your expenses in about 10 years, but the total savings would be a bit pitiful compared to your total consumption.

    If you want to spend money in order to get a return you are better off buying Telefónica stocks and getting the dividentds pay you back in about 8 years. Certainly that is what I would be doing if I had 3k EUR spare and wanted to put them in production: it is a better investment than solar. Just use the dividends to pay for the expenses of your AC if you have one XD

    IMO solar is the sort of thing you think about when you need your own energy supply for practical reasons, such as your power grid sucking 24/7 because they can't bother to regulate the voltage you get. Or because you are a privacy enthusiast who does not want the power company to ellaborate a consumption profile of your power use :-P

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 17 17:05:04 2023
    I always think of a guy I knew in high school. Joined the army as soon
    as he turned 18, the summer he graduated from high school. Was shipped
    off to Fort Benning, GA for basic training. In August. 90 degree temps,
    80 percent humidity.

    I had Basic Training in July and August. It was brutal. And then Airborne school back at Benning in July once again. Ugh...

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jul 17 17:07:25 2023
    How far south are you thinking of going?

    We're thinking Orange County or San Diego County (but pretty far north). We'd like to be ~5 miles or so from the beach - far enough not to be buried by the marine layer, close enough not to have any real weather fluctuations.

    I moved to the Califormia coast in 2015, and I'm glad I did so. Cooler
    weather, fog you can usually set your watch by, and more consistent
    temps, as you're looking for.

    Yeah, I lived in Pacifica for a bit and this was my experience. Right now I live south of San Jose in the Almaden Valley and it's brutally hot right now. Then again everything east of the Santa Cruz mountains is brutally hot right now.

    During 2020-2021, we saw a ton of people move "over the hill" from San
    Jose to Santa Cruz/Capitola/Aptos, when people realized you could work
    from home and buy a hell of a lot more out here - and hopefully they're
    enjoying the beach lifestyle.

    We planned to move during that time but I was warned that we'd all return to in-office work once the pandemic slowed. Stupid job.

    Unfortunately for them, real estate prices, which lagged behind the bay
    area, seem to be catching up.

    This is true in many areas farther away from major population centers. Yet prices in the cities don't seem to be on the decline...which is weird.

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Mon Jul 17 17:12:36 2023
    Yeah, that sounds rough. Was the art show still well-attended, despite
    the heat?

    Sadly no, but it's all good :)

    Yeah, inland is... rough. But there are reasons why most of the people live closer to the coast, and this is where there are a _lot_ of warehouses.

    Yep 100%. Though I'm relatively close to the coast and it's still warm at my place. The Bay Area is kinda weird, though, due to the mountains and valley and stuff.

    Yeah, if I had any choice in the matter...

    I guess there are probably still some AC possibilities in Germany, but society is largely not set up for them. So a bit more of a challenge.
    And, at this point I'm just renting a room, so making more permanent changes seems unlikely.

    One thing I never understood about Germany is why there is no air conditioner, so you have to keep the windows open, but there is no screen in the window so bugs can get in!

    Solar in Las Vegas sounds like it'd work _way_ better than most other places.

    But I suppose it provides power anywhere, as long as there's sunshine.

    Yeah, I'd be curious to see how solar would work in other places. Nevertheless, reducing reliance on the power grid feels like a win-win.

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  • From esc@21:4/173 to Gamgee on Mon Jul 17 17:14:23 2023
    But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
    savings on the utility bill)?

    Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

    No idea, but he said getting solar was a great decision. He even charges his RV with his solar hookup, and at night his pool is heated. So he's consuming a lot of energy.

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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Arelor on Mon Jul 17 22:02:00 2023
    Arelor wrote to Gamgee <=-

    But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay
    for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
    savings on the utility bill)?

    Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

    Actually, modern solar may actually be able to recoup costs
    before you need bigmaintenance expenses, but you do need a badass apocalypse-class setup for it tobe really worth it.

    A lot of people in Spain invested in 3k EUR solar arrays without
    battery packs.When you add up the power they produce for you and
    the discount money you get by selling surpluss power to the grid,
    I think an average house here may save 50% of its power bill tops
    during the first years, and only in favorable months.

    I can't speak much to how things are in Spain. But here in the US, at
    least here in Florida, I have to repel the solar salesmen from my front
    porch a couple of times a month. The costs for getting enough solar to
    be useful here is *FAR* higher than what you are saying (3K EUR). On
    the order of TEN TIMES that, at least. My power bill in the summer
    (which is long and hot here in Florida) probably averages around $300/mo
    USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo would
    come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at that rate,
    to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering interest. At
    that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and must be replaced, so I have saved/gained nothing. More likely I have lost a significant amount of money. That's the reality, at least here.

    If your house uses electricity for either heating or air
    conditioning, I don't think a 3k EUR solar array is gonna make a
    dent in your power bill, though. You will save some money and
    will recoup your expenses in about 10 years, but the total
    savings would be a bit pitiful compared to your total
    consumption.

    See above. This is orders of magnitude different where I am.

    Bottom line is that until the panels/cells get MUCH better, and the cost
    comes down a lot, solar is a losing proposition around here.


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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to esc on Mon Jul 17 22:05:00 2023
    esc wrote to Gamgee <=-

    But...but...but... The real question is: How much did your friend pay for the solar, and how long will it take to recover that cost (by
    savings on the utility bill)?

    Full disclosure: I already know the answer. ;-)

    No idea, but he said getting solar was a great decision. He even
    charges his RV with his solar hookup, and at night his pool is
    heated. So he's consuming a lot of energy.

    Well, I don't know all the details, so can't really comment any further,
    but I can tell you that it doesn't sound *AT ALL* like what the
    situation is here (in sunny Florida). Solar is generally considered a
    blatant scam around here, because the cost is so high, and the return is
    just not what the rainbow-colored unicorns promise. ;-)



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  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Gamgee on Tue Jul 18 03:40:52 2023
    BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

    |11G|09> |10USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo would |07
    |11G|09> |10come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at that rate, |07
    |11G|09> |10to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering interest. At|07
    |11G|09> |07
    |11G|09> |10that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and must be |07

    I live in the middle of California. We went solar a few years ago, got a 4.2kw setup, and it was ~14k USD to get it installed. Our power went from on average $500 a month (it's 113F outside today) to ~$50. It's been quite the boon, <4 years to pay it back.

    Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for new folks, but we'll have this paid for for over 17 years before that hits us. Also power is more in CA than anywhere else in the US. The nice part is running the AC and not stressing about it, since that keeps up with 75% of our energy usage daily over the summer and 300% in the winter.

    Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not, there's not a one size fits all.

    |11r|09ushfan|07



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  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to Rushfan on Tue Jul 18 07:47:00 2023
    Rushfan wrote to Gamgee <=-

    BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

    |11G|09> |10USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo wou
    ld |07
    |11G|09> |10come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at that ra
    te, |07
    |11G|09> |10to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering interest.
    At|07
    |11G|09> |07
    |11G|09> |10that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and must b
    e |07

    I live in the middle of California. We went solar a few years
    ago, got a 4.2kw setup, and it was ~14k USD to get it installed.
    Our power went from on average $500 a month (it's 113F outside
    today) to ~$50. It's been quite the boon, <4 years to pay it
    back.

    Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for
    new folks, but we'll have this paid for for over 17 years before
    that hits us. Also power is more in CA than anywhere else in the
    US. The nice part is running the AC and not stressing about it,
    since that keeps up with 75% of our energy usage daily over the
    summer and 300% in the winter.

    Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not,
    there's not a one size fits all.

    That's a great point, and sounds like it's working great for you. It
    does seem strange to me how there is such fluctuation in the
    installation costs, and how much it affects the actual power bill.

    For me, for now, it's still firmly in the "Not ready for prime time"
    category.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Tue Jul 18 07:16:00 2023
    esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    We're thinking Orange County or San Diego County (but pretty far
    north). We'd like to be ~5 miles or so from the beach - far enough not
    to be buried by the marine layer, close enough not to have any real weather fluctuations.

    I love Carlsbad - felt like a bit of Santa Cruz in socal. La Jolla is
    pretty, too - but pricey.

    This is true in many areas farther away from major population centers.
    Yet prices in the cities don't seem to be on the decline...which is
    weird.

    Yep, sellers and landlords are trailing indicators - won't lower prices
    until they have to.




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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Gamgee on Tue Jul 18 07:31:00 2023
    Gamgee wrote to esc <=-

    Well, I don't know all the details, so can't really comment any
    further, but I can tell you that it doesn't sound *AT ALL* like what
    the situation is here (in sunny Florida). Solar is generally
    considered a blatant scam around here, because the cost is so high, and the return is just not what the rainbow-colored unicorns promise. ;-)

    In California, from what I can tell, it's all about the Solar Shysters
    offering leases on solar where they own the equipment, they get the tax
    breaks, and they partially subsidize the loan with the payments back to
    the grid. Seems like a scam to originate more loans.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Rushfan on Tue Jul 18 07:32:00 2023
    Rushfan wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not, there's
    not a one size fits all.

    I need to spend a little more time on the math. I tried, with higher-than-normal baseline usage and one PHEV car, and it said solar
    would be paid off in 20 years or so.



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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Avon on Tue Jul 18 08:24:03 2023
    Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: Avon to All on Sun Jul 16 2023 03:59 pm

    Golly, I've been reading about some nasty heatwaves on the other side of the globe and if you're impacted by this I hope you will get some reprieve soon.

    Over here we just took delivery of another load of firewood and I'm still lugging it into the house each night to burn it. The joys.

    I have the impression we've been breaking heat records in recent years. Just a couple years ago (2021), my area saw the hottest day on record - It got up to (I think) 119 degrees Fahrenheit (about 48 or 49 degrees Celsius) one day. Temperatures that high are unusual for my area. We do get some hot weather in the summer, but usually the hottest it gets might be around 107 Fahrenheit (41 Celsius). Usually it doesn't get quite that hot, but it can be near there, and usually for just a couple weeks or so.

    Nightfox
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  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Poindexter Fortran on Tue Jul 18 15:54:36 2023
    BY: poindexter FORTRAN (21:4/122)

    |11pF|09> |10 In California, from what I can tell, it's all about the Solar Shysters|07
    |11pF|09> |10 offering leases on solar where they own the equipment, they get the tax|07
    |11pF|09> |10 breaks, and they partially subsidize the loan with the payments back to|07
    |11pF|09> |10 the grid. Seems like a scam to originate more loans.|07

    Agreed, they really push to try to do that, one thing is always true. Never ever ever ever lease a solar system. The "buyout" price is more than new, and if you ever sell your house, the solar company has to approve the buyer and the buyer has to assume the lease (which is never a good deal, especially towards the end of the lease).

    By the buyout price being more, I mean specifically let's say you had 2 years left at $200 a month for the lease payment ($2400), a buyout price may be $3000. Seriously. Wowza.

    |11r|09ushfan|07



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  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Tue Jul 18 15:45:31 2023
    Yeah, that sounds rough. Was the art show still well-attended, despit the heat?

    Sadly no, but it's all good :)

    I guess people were being sensible. Darn them!

    at my place. The Bay Area is kinda weird, though, due to the mountains
    and valley and stuff.

    San Francisco is super odd. The west side might be nice and cloudy, with Karl (the fog) keeping things cool, and the east side is sunny and getting somewhat hot. And it'll be like that for days in a row.

    It's a great place for looking at microclimates. But go over to, oh, Wisconsin, and, sure, heat islands in cities or whatever, but you travel some distance, and the weather will generally be _almost_ the same, or just kinda random on where the exact storm path goes.

    One thing I never understood about Germany is why there is no air conditioner, so you have to keep the windows open, but there is no
    screen in the window so bugs can get in!

    I have also found that odd, though it _is_ possible to get screens, though they're more the type you shove in the window every time you open it, than something permanent.

    That said, in Wisconsin, a lack of screens means you _will_ be eaten alive by mosquitos. In Germany, yeah, things fly in occasionally, there _are_ some insects around, and getting the occasional stinging insect in the house is a definite risk, but the level of annoyance is significantly lower.

    Yeah, I'd be curious to see how solar would work in other places. Nevertheless, reducing reliance on the power grid feels like a win-win.

    Yeah. And I think most of us have some level of fantasy about at least kinda-sorta living off the grid. (But with good internet and/or a link to BBSs)

    I'd experiment with solar, but I have a room with a North-facing window, so the concept seems largely wasted on me, as tempted as I am to pick up portable solar panels.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 18 16:04:49 2023
    as he turned 18, the summer he graduated from high school. Was shipped
    off to Fort Benning, GA for basic training. In August. 90 degree temps,
    80 percent humidity.

    I guess that sounds like better conditions than the stuff they've been suffering through on the front lines of Russia's war in Ukraine, even ignoring the death and destruction.

    So maybe good training, but, yeah, not something I'd want to deal with.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 18 16:08:11 2023
    Unfortunately for them, real estate prices, which lagged behind the bay
    area, seem to be catching up.

    I'm still sad that, for all the negative news about San Francisco, housing costs are still super high.

    But there's not really anywhere out there that's both pleasant to live and cheap to live.

    On the other hand, if I moved there as a software developer, I could probably at least double my salary, so tradeoffs, I guess.

    Not quite the same for all the people doing retail or whatever, though, I think. Wages are higher, but probably not enough higher, to make it especially workable.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to Rushfan on Tue Jul 18 16:16:26 2023
    By the buyout price being more, I mean specifically let's say you had 2 years left at $200 a month for the lease payment ($2400), a buyout price may be $3000. Seriously. Wowza.

    "I'm going to give you more money now, and in exchange I will get to give you an additional $600."

    ...yeah, that sounds more like, "unclear on the concept" or "you are a criminal in any sensible system".

    That would be enraging.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Gamgee@21:2/138 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 18 14:05:00 2023
    poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Gamgee <=-

    Well, I don't know all the details, so can't really comment any
    further, but I can tell you that it doesn't sound *AT ALL* like what
    the situation is here (in sunny Florida). Solar is generally
    considered a blatant scam around here, because the cost is so high, and the return is just not what the rainbow-colored unicorns promise. ;-)

    In California, from what I can tell, it's all about the Solar
    Shysters
    offering leases on solar where they own the equipment, they get
    the tax
    breaks, and they partially subsidize the loan with the payments
    back to
    the grid. Seems like a scam to originate more loans.

    I'm sure that is very true. Likely also true here.

    Maybe in another decade (or two), solar might be a useful thing. Unless
    we perfect nuclear fusion first. Then, everything else won't really
    matter, and will quickly fade away.



    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Jul 18 21:23:45 2023
    I love Carlsbad - felt like a bit of Santa Cruz in socal. La Jolla is
    pretty, too - but pricey.

    Carlsbad is where my parents live, and part of the incentive for us to move is to be closer to family (I also have a sister and her husband in SD proper).

    And yeah, Carlsbad is awesome! But we may pick somewhere closer to LA because my wife has some roots there, and it's probably safer in case of any job related changes in the future.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Tue Jul 18 21:27:59 2023
    San Francisco is super odd. The west side might be nice and cloudy, with Karl (the fog) keeping things cool, and the east side is sunny and
    getting somewhat hot. And it'll be like that for days in a row.

    I lived in Pacifica for a while and worked in Palo Alto. The commute was terrible, but I got to enjoy the cool damp/foggy mornings, sunny lunchtimes, and mild evenings by the beach. It was pretty idyllic.

    That said, in Wisconsin, a lack of screens means you _will_ be eaten
    alive by mosquitos. In Germany, yeah, things fly in occasionally, there _are_ some insects around, and getting the occasional stinging insect in the house is a definite risk, but the level of annoyance is
    significantly lower.

    Sometimes at my house I like to leave the floor to ceiling windows open to get a nice breeze. My wife believes doing so will wind up with our house completely invaded by bugs. It's...silly. lol. We really don't have many bugs here at all.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to Adept on Tue Jul 18 21:30:00 2023
    On the other hand, if I moved there as a software developer, I could probably at least double my salary, so tradeoffs, I guess.

    It's interesting, engineers in the Bay Area objectively make a boatload of cash compared to folks elsewhere, but it doesn't go far. There's no shortage of 30+ year olds making $100k+ per year having to look for roommates so that they can afford an apartment.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From hollowone@21:2/150 to Nightfox on Wed Jul 19 05:14:18 2023
    I have the impression we've been breaking heat records in recent years. Just a couple years ago (2021), my area saw the hottest day on record -
    It got up to (I think) 119 degrees Fahrenheit (about 48 or 49 degrees Celsius) one day. Temperatures that high are unusual for my area. We
    do get some hot weather in the summer, but usually the hottest it gets might be around 107 Fahrenheit (41 Celsius). Usually it doesn't get
    quite that hot, but it can be near there, and usually for just a couple weeks or so.

    For last couple of years in Central Poland where I live both summer months keep temperature over 30C every day for about a month, with some daily drops down to 25-28C if there is some northern/eastern wind or one day raining.

    Other than that we have Nevada weather more than Minnesota weather in summer if I was looking for some analogies.

    But I'm pretty sure Minnessota may also get a lot of new heat that was not used to observe in past decades.

    But to be honest we also experience short but intense winters, with regular snow (just few inches but it stays on the ground outside cities).

    Negative 10C for 2-3 weeks is also something I'm used to experience.

    What we don't have as usual is Spring. When freeze ends we almost immediately have 1-2 weeks of heavy raining and storms and temperature raises from 0 to 16 over the period of March and in April it's not unusual to see 20+ quite often. May is already summer with 25 on regular basis.

    I'm talking Celcius all the time.

    Autumn is more or less OK and standard. Temperatures drop in early October. Some rain but usually nice weather that becomes chilly in November. Days become dark and trees are full of colors as usual then to become wooden skeletons and by mid of November you can see first snow from time to time and negative temperatures hitting in.

    But that's country side. My friends in 1M+ cities cannot say they've seen snow the same way as I do... and in summer they have 3-5 degrees more. Something for something If like like concrete and glass as your neighbor.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to hollowone on Wed Jul 19 08:20:01 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: hollowone to Nightfox on Wed Jul 19 2023 05:14 am

    For last couple of years in Central Poland where I live both summer months keep temperature over 30C every day for about a month, with some daily drops down to 25-28C if there is some northern/eastern wind or one day raining.

    Other than that we have Nevada weather more than Minnesota weather in summer if I was looking for some analogies.

    But I'm pretty sure Minnessota may also get a lot of new heat that was not used to observe in past decades.

    But to be honest we also experience short but intense winters, with regular snow (just few inches but it stays on the ground outside cities).

    Negative 10C for 2-3 weeks is also something I'm used to experience.

    What we don't have as usual is Spring. When freeze ends we almost immediately have 1-2 weeks of heavy raining and storms and temperature raises from 0 to 16 over the period of March and in April it's not unusual to see 20+ quite often. May is already summer with 25 on regular basis.

    Sounds like interesting weather there..
    I don't really like hot summer weather; I tend to prefer cooler autumn/winter weather. And I suppose it's not too bad where I am - Summer can get hot, but that usually doesn't last too long and it's not the hottest place. Also, autumn is nice here, and winter is usually fairly mild - we have freezing temperatures, but usually that's just overnight, and we don't get much snow (and when we do, it usually doesn't last long).

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to esc on Wed Jul 19 15:46:21 2023
    I lived in Pacifica for a while and worked in Palo Alto. The commute was terrible, but I got to enjoy the cool damp/foggy mornings, sunny lunchtimes, and mild evenings by the beach. It was pretty idyllic.

    I guess that's why people live in Pacifica, despite those commutes being horrifying.

    But probably much nicer if you're working remotely or only going in a couple days a week.

    house completely invaded by bugs. It's...silly. lol. We really don't
    have many bugs here at all.

    And then the bugs that _do_ come in, well, that's what spiders are for.

    My brother, who's about midway between San Francisco and San Jose, mostly suffers from ants, and window opening is irrelevant for those.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Wed Jul 19 07:57:00 2023
    Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    But there's not really anywhere out there that's both pleasant to live
    and cheap to live.

    Bakersfield, CA is getting on the radar. Lots of land, cheap real
    estate, decent internet, a small-town feel, and it's about 2 hours from
    Silicon Valley, in case you need to do a day a week in the office.

    I'd be leery of the central valley in California, you don't need to
    leave the urban areas very far to get into some sketchy politics.

    I think agricultural tech is going to be a bigger thing; that's a
    business where incremental optimizations can make a huge difference.
    Salinas and Gilroy both have co-working spaces popping up in the middle
    of very old-school ag-centric businesses.

    There are some interesting, quaint, relatively inexpensive towns on the
    central coast, but the kicker is schools. The public schools are pretty
    good for elementary, mediocre at best for middle school, and the high
    schools test poorly. If schools aren't an issue, that opens up a ton of
    cool places that are still relatively in-range of silicon valley a
    couple of days a week.




    ... Think - inside the work -outside the work
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Wed Jul 19 08:26:00 2023
    esc wrote to Adept <=-

    I lived in Pacifica for a while and worked in Palo Alto. The commute
    was terrible, but I got to enjoy the cool damp/foggy mornings, sunny lunchtimes, and mild evenings by the beach. It was pretty idyllic.

    Aptos to San Jose/Santa Clara, here. One habit I got into was changing
    into flip-flops in the parking lot of the office for the drive home, to
    get me in the home mindset. I'd pick up my daughter from day care, they
    had an ocean view and I'd see the sun going down in the summer time. It
    makes the drive worth it.

    Sometimes at my house I like to leave the floor to ceiling windows open
    to get a nice breeze. My wife believes doing so will wind up with our house completely invaded by bugs. It's...silly. lol. We really don't
    have many bugs here at all.

    Mosquitos aren't much of a concern around here, but we get big dumb
    flies. One of my dogs hates when they get in the house and will hunt
    them down relentlessly, jumping from couch to chair to try and get
    them. Then, after all the exertion, he will nap.



    ... Don't give Chad a big neural network
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to esc on Wed Jul 19 08:35:00 2023
    esc wrote to Adept <=-

    It's interesting, engineers in the Bay Area objectively make a boatload
    of cash compared to folks elsewhere, but it doesn't go far. There's no shortage of 30+ year olds making $100k+ per year having to look for roommates so that they can afford an apartment.

    The lifestyle doesn't help, either. I thought about how much money I
    spent going out to lunch in San Francisco, San Jose and Berkeley pretty
    much every day from 1991 until 2015. Thought if I'd brought leftovers
    and invested my lunch money, I'd be in a better place financially now.

    I married in 1996, so I wasn't going out to bars at night a lot. If I'd
    added the cost of a couple of drinks during the week to the investment
    pool, even better!

    Aside: I read about a group of software people, who in 2020 got sick of
    paying 3-4K each for studios and one bedroom apartments in San
    Francisco. They all moved out, quarantined for 2 weeks, and rented a
    huge place in the hills in San Diego, with lots of land, a pool, hot
    tub, tennis court, and a bedroom for each of them, for the same price as
    their single residences. They shopped collectively and did that for a
    year. Added a few more people and moved somewhere else after a year -
    all while working remotely.

    I felt sorry for all of the people paying inflated prices for housing in
    San Francisco when the night life, culture and dining closed down.
    Yes, it's great being close to work, but when your office is closed,
    you're paying all the premium with none of the benefits.







    ... YORGAMAK HAS ARRIVED AND WILL INITIATE DESTRUCTIMATION.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From esc@21:4/173 to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jul 19 12:14:24 2023
    Bakersfield, CA is getting on the radar. Lots of land, cheap real
    estate, decent internet, a small-town feel, and it's about 2 hours from Silicon Valley, in case you need to do a day a week in the office.

    Every time I drive south down the 5 past Bakersfield I can't get the smell of that huge cow pasture out of my nose for what feels like days. It's literally the worst thing I've ever smelled in my entire life.

    You know the one I'm talking about, the one right off the freeway that looks like a huge cow slum?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Rushfan on Thu Jul 20 06:10:57 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: Rushfan to Gamgee on Tue Jul 18 2023 03:40 am

    BY: Gamgee (21:2/138)

    |11G|09> |10USD. Even if I saved 50% (which is VERY unlikely), that $150/mo |11G|09> |10come to $1800/year savings. It would take about 20 years at tha |11G|09> |10to pay off the initial cost, probably 25 years considering inter |11G|09> |07
    |11G|09> |10that point (or sooner) the solar cells are nearly useless and mu

    I live in the middle of California. We went solar a few years ago, got a 4. ack.

    Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for new folks, ut it, since that keeps up with 75% of our energy usage daily over the summe

    Everyone has to do the math to see if it makes sense or not, there's not a o

    |11r|09ushfan|07



    --- WWIV 5.9.0.3686[Linux 5.10.0-20]
    * Origin: Mystic Rhythms BBS (21:2/115)

    I just sized my arrays so my house is off-griddable. Completely.

    We still have a power subscription but we draw zero Watts from it. The main switch is closed. I am still to convince my family to cancel the power subscription.


    We even have a diesel generator with automatable startup linked to our setup. If the solar batteries ran dry the generator can be set to recharge them or to just power the house.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Rushfan on Thu Jul 20 06:15:57 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: Rushfan to Gamgee on Tue Jul 18 2023 03:40 am


    Of course CA just made the solar net metering worse this year for new folks,

    BTW, did you install battery cells?

    If your setup does not include battery cells then I think it is a bit expensive compared to here.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Ewing@21:3/153 to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 21:30:10 2023
    I just sized my arrays so my house is off-griddable. Completely. Ar> We still have a power subscription but we draw zero Watts from it. The Ar> main switch is closed. I am still to convince my family to cancel the Ar> power subscription.Awesome.I have a 10kW system at home here in Australia but don't have any batteries yet. During the summer here I can run the ducted aircon (and it's absolutely needed because it hits 47C/117F here) and still be exporting to the grid.I'm so glad I have it because I just received a notification that my power rates are going up to AUD42.6c/kWh from 1 August. One year ago I was paying 19.25c/kWh.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Mortal BBS - bbs.mortalbbs.com:23 (21:3/153)
  • From hollowone@21:2/150 to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 06:11:30 2023
    We even have a diesel generator with automatable startup linked to our setup. If the solar batteries ran dry the generator can be set to
    recharge them or to just power the house.

    What's the economic gain you have from this setup?

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Rushfan@21:2/115 to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 15:30:16 2023
    BY: Arelor (21:2/138)

    |11A|09> |10BTW, did you install battery cells?|07
    |11A|09> |07
    |11A|09> |10If your setup does not include battery cells then I think it is a bit|07
    |11A|09> |10expensive|07
    |11A|09> |10compared to here.|07

    We didn't install battery yet for some complicate reasons, but plan to at some point. Also bought the house new, which meant (in california) it has to have solar and it comes with the house, so the builder and solar company don't offer different options and have no incentive to discount. That said the solar works well and my power is essentially free.

    |11r|09ushfan|07



    --- WWIV 5.9.0.3686[Linux 5.10.0-20]
    * Origin: Mystic Rhythms BBS (21:2/115)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Ewing on Thu Jul 20 10:57:51 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: Ewing to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 2023 09:30 pm

    I just sized my arrays so my house is off-griddable. Completely. Ar> We
    e a 10kW system at home here in Australia but don't have any batteries yet. st received a notification that my power rates are going up to AUD42.6c/kWh --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Mortal BBS - bbs.mortalbbs.com:23 (21:3/153)

    Heh, I think you missed your format. Don't worry, because my editor also messes up itself.

    I went with batteries because I don't trust the government. The smart-grid system we have here is designed for the government and power companies to leech from home solar production. Once you deduct taxes and grid tolls, it
    turns out any kwh you pour into the grid is worth 1/6 the value of a kwh from the grid.

    And the problem is the government or power companies may change the deal any time they see fit.

    If you have a battery pack, you have a certain degree of security in that kilowatts you produce will be put to good use instead of feeding somebody else's wallet.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to hollowone on Thu Jul 20 11:04:38 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: hollowone to Arelor on Thu Jul 20 2023 06:11 am

    We even have a diesel generator with automatable startup linked to our setup. If the solar batteries ran dry the generator can be set to recharge them or to just power the house.

    What's the economic gain you have from this setup?

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

    The real gain is I don't get to worry if a thunderstorm crashes the village's power supply, or if floods crash the power supply, of ir the power supplier messes up and crashes the power supply. Which happens often enough.

    I estimate my setup will recoup the investment in 10 years, asuming the price of electric power does not go up - which I am sure it will.

    As I mentioned earlier, it is not a great investment plan because you may as well invest in Spanish firms (if you have what it takes) and get your investment back in less time.

    Mind you, we didn't get the generator for this setup. We got it much earlier because power supply here sucks and we needed a fallback. When we added solar it was easy for me to include a generator we already had in the setup. We no longer use it much since solar copes with most of our load. I run it 30 minutes per month in order to prevent it from getting stuck due to inactivity.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Zip on Sun Jul 23 11:40:19 2023
    On 16 Jul 2023 at 07:53a, Zip pondered and said...

    Thanks! Hot and humid here (although not nearly as bad here as in the
    more central parts of Europe), and vegetation could use some rain for sure...

    I'm seeing a bunch of reports in our nightly news as to how bad things are at the moment there :(

    I hope things settle for everyone soon.

    Sounds cozy! :)

    It is!

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Adept on Sun Jul 23 11:43:09 2023
    On 16 Jul 2023 at 03:43p, Adept pondered and said...

    Today's projected high is "only" 39C (102F-ish), where I'm currently at, in Southern California.

    That's super hot for me, we may reach mid 30s perhaps a handful of days over our summer but it's more in the mid 20s when summer is rolling here.

    And, since I basically don't have to go outside, unless it's to my
    rental car, it's perfectly pleasant.

    Good stuff. Staying in an air con bubble would be my go to move I think.

    But when it was 30+ in Germany, with no AC at home or work, along with higher humidity... That's awful. My condolences to all the people
    without AC and/or suffering this heat in more-humid locales.

    Ugh yeah that's awful.

    Though I will be glad to get back to Germany, for green plants and hopefully better air quality, where it's slightly more pleasant to take
    a walk outside.

    It's a wet and overcast day here today with a high of 9c

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Jul 23 11:44:18 2023
    On 16 Jul 2023 at 09:39a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    I'm on the California coast, and we're on a sliver of land with a
    reprieve from the heat. Friends of ours came from the San Francisco bay area yesterday to escape the heat at our house - it was 40C at their
    house and a comfortable 24c here with a nice ocean breeze.

    I'm also by the ocean and we get polar air coming up from the south as the next stop is Antarctica :)

    People who surf in our ocean wear wet suits year round!

    I'm glad your friends could find some respite!

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Sun Jul 23 11:46:47 2023
    On 18 Jul 2023 at 08:24a, Nightfox pondered and said...

    I have the impression we've been breaking heat records in recent years. Just a couple years ago (2021), my area saw the hottest day on record -
    It got up to (I think) 119 degrees Fahrenheit (about 48 or 49 degrees Celsius) one day. Temperatures that high are unusual for my area. We
    do get some hot weather in the summer, but usually the hottest it gets might be around 107 Fahrenheit (41 Celsius). Usually it doesn't get
    quite that hot, but it can be near there, and usually for just a couple weeks or so.

    based on news coverage I'd say you/the world is breaking records right now :(

    I think the thing that would do me is is any humidity.

    On trips to places like Singapore I've struggled.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Ewing@21:3/153 to Avon on Sun Jul 23 11:14:15 2023

    I think the thing that would do me is is any humidity.

    On trips to places like Singapore I've struggled.

    Humidity is definitely what gets me.

    I had a past role that wanted me to spend a lot of time in Singapore. Knowing that they still wore suits over there (the Sydney office was mostly jeans+polo/t-shirts) I laughed and told them no.

    At least Singapore has A/C everywhere. From my limited time in Europe it doesn't seem to be there norm there.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Mortal BBS - mortalbbs.com - Blue Mountains, AU (21:3/153)
  • From Ewing@21:3/153 to Arelor on Sun Jul 23 20:53:34 2023
    Heh, I think you missed your format. Don't worry, because my editor also messes up itself.

    I was really quite confused when I saw your reply because my message looked fine on the local system - and then I saw my reply elsewhere!

    Going OT now but I've made some changes to the editor config. Hopefully that fixes the issue.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Mortal BBS - mortalbbs.com - Blue Mountains, AU (21:3/153)
  • From hollowone@21:2/150 to Arelor on Sun Jul 23 12:06:45 2023
    What's the economic gain you have from this setup?
    The real gain is I don't get to worry if a thunderstorm crashes the village's power supply, or if floods crash the power supply, of ir the power supplier messes up and crashes the power supply. Which happens
    often enough.

    So it's more about fail over rather than savings then? Is the grid around you unstable?

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to hollowone on Tue Jul 25 08:34:11 2023
    Re: Re: Keep cool USA and European folks
    By: hollowone to Arelor on Sun Jul 23 2023 12:06 pm

    So it's more about fail over rather than savings then? Is the grid around yo

    It is more about having backup service than savings. As I have mentioned elsewhere, you get more for your money with certain investments.

    I just happen to be saving a lot of money in the process.

    And yes, the power grid is so bad here I have cut off the main power since April because the power company is supplying voltages between +10% and +20% (with big spikes up and down) the nominal tension. This sort of line seems to work until one day it fries your stuff.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)