• Cashless society is bad.

    From Utopian Galt@IUTOPIA to All on Sat Jul 4 16:59:00 2020
    The plan for the digital dollar.

    WHAT NO CASH ACTUALLY MEANS

    A cashless society means no cash. Zero. It doesn't mean mostly cashless and
    you can still use a `wee bit of cash here & there'. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren't fully aware of what they are asking for. A cashless society means:

    * If you are struggling with your mortgage on a particular month, you can't
    do an odd job to get you through.

    * Your child can't go & help the local farmer to earn a bit of summer cash.

    * No more cash slipped into the hands of a child as a good luck charm or from their grandparent when going on holidays.

    * No more money in birthday cards.

    * No more piggy banks for your child to collect pocket money & to learn about the value of earning.

    * No more cash for a rainy day fund or for that something special you have
    been putting £20 a week away for.

    * No more nixers on the side because your wages barely cover the bills or put food on the table.

    * No more charity collections.

    * No more selling bits & pieces from your home that you no longer want/need
    for a bit of cash in return.

    * No more cash gifts from relatives or loved ones.

    What a cashless society does guarantee:

    * Banks have full control of every single penny you own.

    * Every transaction you make is recorded.

    * All your movements & actions are traceable.

    * Access to your money can be blocked at the click of a button when/if banks need `clarification' from you which will take about 3 weeks, a thousand questions answered & five thousand passwords.

    * You will have no choice but to declare & be taxed on every pound in your possession.

    * The government WILL decide what you can & cannot purchase.

    * If your transactions are deemed in any way questionable, by those who
    create the questions, your money will be frozen, `for your own good'.

    I could write lists for 5 days & still not finish explaining how utterly
    awful a cashless society would be, for everyone. Even for the goody two shoes who wouldn't dream of not declaring £500.
    Forget about cash being dirty. Stop being so easily led. Cash has been around for a very, very, very long time & it gives you control over how you trade
    with the world. It gives you independence. I heard a story where a man supposedly contracted Covid because of a £20 note he had handled. There is
    the same chance of Covid being on a card as being on cash. If you cannot see how utterly ridiculous this assumption is then there is little hope.

    If you are a customer, pay with cash. If you are a shop owner, remove those ridiculous signs that ask people to pay by card. Cash is a legal tender, it
    is our right to pay with cash. Banks are making it increasingly difficult to lodge cash & that has nothing to do with a virus, nor has this `dirty money' trend.

    Please open your eyes. Please stop believing everything you are being told. Almost every single topic in today's world is tainted with corruption &
    hidden agendas. Please stop telling me & others like me that we are what's wrong with the world when you hail the most corrupt members of society as
    your heroes. Politics & greed is what is wrong with the world; not those who are trying to alert you to the reality in which you are blindly floating
    along whilst being immobilised by irrational fear. Fear created to keep you doing & believing in exactly what you are complacently doing.

    Pay with cash & please say no to a cashless society while you still have the choice!!!!!????
  • From Ogg@EOTLBBS to Utopian Galt on Sun Jul 5 15:45:00 2020
    Hello Utopian!

    ** On Saturday 04.07.20 - 12:59, utopian.galt wrote to All:

    The plan for the digital dollar.

    WHAT NO CASH ACTUALLY MEANS

    Very good list! I would bet that many people do not think of those
    details.


    ..I heard a story where a man supposedly contracted Covid because of a
    ·20 note he had handled. There is the same chance of Covid being on a
    card as being on cash. If you cannot see how utterly ridiculous this assumption is then there is little hope.

    Yes.. most people will willingly accept the "story" of the man, and not bother verifying the origin of such a story.
    e
    As for germs on credit cards.. DUH! ..I bet people don't think of that! Very good point! I operate POS device at my shop. Although most people will be happy to "tap" the card for a contactless transaction (nevermind
    that most people still seem to think that the "tap" means to actually have the card touch the surface of the POS device), many cards still need to
    use the magnetic strip for swiping. And what germs still lurk in the deep recesses of the reader slots? The same germs. Theoretically, those same germs can pass from card to card.


    If you are a customer, pay with cash. If you are a shop owner, remove
    those ridiculous signs that ask people to pay by card. Cash is a legal tender, it is our right to pay with cash. Banks are making it
    increasingly difficult to lodge cash & that has nothing to do with a
    virus, nor has this `dirty money' trend.

    It is all a sad trend to brainwash people into thinking that handling cash
    is a dirty practice.


    along whilst being immobilised by irrational fear. Fear created to keep
    you doing & believing in exactly what you are complacently doing.

    Fear is certainly at the root. I concur.


    Pay with cash & please say no to a cashless society while you still have
    the choice!!!!!????

    Sadly, insisting on using cash won't prevent the cashless elephant to
    arrive. Education will be the key.

    As a shop owner.. I would go further and say that a cashless transaction
    is impossible during a power-outtage. I have seen scores of people with loaded carts at grocery stores completely stuck while an outtage is in progress. A cashless paystation can be compromised by radio interference.

    A 100% cashless system is a big mistake.

    ../|ug

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Arelor@PALANT to Utopian Galt on Sun Jul 5 15:59:24 2020
    Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Utopian Galt to All on Sat Jul 04 2020 04:59 pm

    I have yet to meet a real life person who thinks going cashless is a good idea.

    The only ones who seem to think so are bankers or politicians. And the bankers I know say it is "unavoidalbe" rather
    than "desirable".

    In the end of the day people is always going to want to trade without intermediaries. If they tried to remove cash for good we
    will end up seeing what is already happening in South American communist hellholes: people will just use illegal money, or
    barter.


    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From paulie420@PAULIE42 to Utopian Galt on Sun Jul 5 23:42:32 2020
    Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Utopian Galt to All on Sat Jul 04 2020 04:59 pm

    The plan for the digital dollar.

    WHAT NO CASH ACTUALLY MEANS

    A cashless society means no cash. Zero. It doesn't mean mostly cashless and you can still use a `wee bit of cash here & there'. Cashless means fully digital, fully traceable, fully controlled. I think those who support a cashless society aren't fully aware of what they are asking for. A cashless society means:

    * If you are struggling with your mortgage on a particular month, you can't do an odd job to get you through.

    * Your child can't go & help the local farmer to earn a bit of summer cash.

    * No more cash slipped into the hands of a child as a good luck charm or from their grandparent when going on holidays.

    * No more money in birthday cards.

    * No more piggy banks for your child to collect pocket money & to learn about the value of earning.

    * No more cash for a rainy day fund or for that something special you have been putting £20 a week away for.

    * No more nixers on the side because your wages barely cover the bills or put food on the table.

    * No more charity collections.

    * No more selling bits & pieces from your home that you no longer want/need for a bit of cash in return.

    * No more cash gifts from relatives or loved ones.

    What a cashless society does guarantee:

    * Banks have full control of every single penny you own.

    * Every transaction you make is recorded.

    * All your movements & actions are traceable.

    * Access to your money can be blocked at the click of a button when/if banks need `clarification' from you which will take about 3 weeks, a thousand questions answered & five thousand passwords.

    * You will have no choice but to declare & be taxed on every pound in your possession.

    * The government WILL decide what you can & cannot purchase.

    * If your transactions are deemed in any way questionable, by those who create the questions, your money will be frozen, `for your own good'.

    I could write lists for 5 days & still not finish explaining how utterly awful a cashless society would be, for everyone. Even for the goody two shoes who wouldn't dream of not declaring £500.
    Forget about cash being dirty. Stop being so easily led. Cash has been around for a very, very, very long time & it gives you control over how you trade with the world. It gives you independence. I heard a story where a man supposedly contracted Covid because of a £20 note he had handled. There is the same chance of Covid being on a card as being on cash. If you cannot see how utterly ridiculous this assumption is then there is little hope.

    If you are a customer, pay with cash. If you are a shop owner, remove those ridiculous signs that ask people to pay by card. Cash is a legal tender, it is our right to pay with cash. Banks are making it increasingly difficult to lodge cash & that has nothing to do with a virus, nor has this `dirty money' trend.

    Please open your eyes. Please stop believing everything you are being told. Almost every single topic in today's world is tainted with corruption & hidden agendas. Please stop telling me & others like me that we are what's wrong with the world when you hail the most corrupt members of society as your heroes. Politics & greed is what is wrong with the world; not those who are trying to alert you to the reality in which you are blindly floating along whilst being immobilised by irrational fear. Fear created to keep you doing & believing in exactly what you are complacently doing.

    Pay with cash & please say no to a cashless society while you still have the choice!!!!!????

    I agressively agree with every word you wrote in your post. Any sort of cashless society; IMO even continuing down the path of a LESS-cash society is a horrible thing.

    We need the USPS (or mail delivery wherever you may live..) and CASH money. Anonymous payments are a part of our freedoms... giving them away would be the same as giving up your rights to bear arms... to freedom of speech... to pursuit of happiness.

    I have many of my own reasons for this, but regardless of those EVERY American should have their own reasons - a cashless society is just plain stupid IMO.

    |08Paulie|15420
    |15M|08@|15STERM|07i|15ND
    |14AmericanPiBBS|04.com|07

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ >>>American Pi BBS @ AmericanPiBBS.com:23>>>Rockin like its 1993!>>>
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Utopian Galt on Mon Jul 6 08:46:34 2020
    On 7/4/2020 9:59 AM, Utopian Galt wrote:
    * Access to your money can be blocked at the click of a button when/if banks need `clarification' from you which will take about 3 weeks, a thousand questions answered & five thousand passwords.

    Given banks have acted to censor people for online activity, it could
    get far worse... if you don't toe the line with whatever political
    expediency is enacted, you can be excluded from any and all commerce and
    your individual liberties/rights would not be guaranteed.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Dumas Walker@CAPCITY2 to OGG on Mon Jul 6 15:07:00 2020
    progress. A cashless paystation can be compromised by radio interference.

    A 100% cashless system is a big mistake.

    In my line of work, over the years I have been amazed at how banks and
    credit card companies seem to be doing so much to make identity theft so
    much easier for the thieves.


    * SLMR 2.1a * clap on (CLAP!CLAP!) clap off (CLAP!) NO CARRIER

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@EOTLBBS to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 6 19:42:00 2020
    Hello Dumas!

    ** On Monday 06.07.20 - 15:07, dumas.walker wrote to OGG:

    progress. A cashless paystation can be compromised by radio interference.

    A 100% cashless system is a big mistake.

    In my line of work, over the years I have been amazed at how banks and
    credit card companies seem to be doing so much to make identity theft so
    much easier for the thieves.

    The chip method isn't too bad. I would think that is an improvement. Its
    use by the customer is sufficient "proof" that the transaction is legit.
    The onus is up to the user that it wasn't them that entered the pin
    numbers.

    But.. if the card were to be a stolen one, then the only other way to
    process the transaction on site would be by mag stripe. There too, a pin would be required - most of the time.

    I've noted that some people who swipe, get an instant authorization.
    Weird. I should probably disallow or cancel a swipe transaction.

    I see more and more people using their watches and tablets for proximity (contactless) transactions.

    There still remains no way for me as a merchant to identify a stolen card.


    ../|ug

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 6 21:34:25 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Dumas Walker to OGG on Mon Jul 06 2020 03:07 pm

    progress. A cashless paystation can be compromised by radio interference.

    A 100% cashless system is a big mistake.

    In my line of work, over the years I have been amazed at how banks and credit card companies seem to be doing so much to make identity theft so much easier for the thieves.

    their money is insured so they dont care.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Ogg on Mon Jul 6 21:36:20 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Ogg to Dumas Walker on Mon Jul 06 2020 07:42 pm

    In my line of work, over the years I have been amazed at how banks and credit card companies seem to be doing so much to make identity theft so much easier for the thieves.

    The chip method isn't too bad. I would think that is an improvement. Its use by the customer is sufficient "proof" that the transaction is legit. The onus is up to the user that it wasn't them that entered the pin numbers.

    But.. if the card were to be a stolen one, then the only other way to process the transaction on site would be by mag stripe. There too, a pin


    i have chip cards and one other card that just has enhanced security.
    they block shit if it's weird.

    that chipless card is more effective. one of my chip cards got the card number stolen and some dude was able to buy 2k worth of shit all over the place.

    it happened when i bought bitcoins from coinbase. their system was compromised obviously.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dennisk@DUNGEON to Arelor on Mon Jul 6 21:49:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to Utopian Galt <=-

    Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Utopian Galt to All on Sat Jul 04 2020 04:59 pm

    I have yet to meet a real life person who thinks going cashless is a
    good idea.

    The only ones who seem to think so are bankers or politicians. And the bankers I know say it is "unavoidalbe" rather than "desirable".

    In the end of the day people is always going to want to trade without intermediaries. If they tried to remove cash for good we will end up seeing what is already happening in South American communist hellholes: people will just use illegal money, or barter.

    I have met one or two that like the idea. They were BitCoin enthusiasts. I find the idea scary, and a cashless society will, withot a doubt, be a much less free one. One can expect remote control of their financial abilities to be exploited in order to stop payments that people in power don't want to occur, or bring people into line. The opportunity to track, monitor and profile people is also frightening.

    I really don't understand how people can dismiss these concerns, and think that such measures won't be taken, when we've seen it with our digital communications.

    Technology will lead us towards a dystopia.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Ogg@EOTLBBS to All on Tue Jul 7 22:26:00 2020
    Hello Arelor!

    ** On Sunday 05.07.20 - 16:59, arelor wrote to Utopian Galt:

    I have yet to meet a real life person who thinks going cashless is a
    good idea.

    The only ones who seem to think so are bankers or politicians. And the bankers I know say it is "unavoidalbe" rather than "desirable".

    Politicians probably have investments/stocks in banks.


    In the end of the day people is always going to want to trade without intermediaries. If they tried to remove cash for good we will end up
    seeing what is already happening in South American communist hellholes: people will just use illegal money, or barter.

    Wasn't there an experiment in Sweden with a totally cashless process?

    This is absolutely astonishing (especially with the chips embedded under
    the skin):

    https://www.npr.org/2019/02/11/691334123/swedens-cashless-experiment-is- it-too-much-too-fast

    The following is more recent, and quite interesting:

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-cashless-society

    I never heard of the VΣstberga heist.

    "I hate cash. It's dirty," says Jowan ╓sterlund, a 39-year-old Swedish entrepreneur. "It creates friction and risk. It kills time."

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Arelor@PALANT to Ogg on Wed Jul 8 06:33:11 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Ogg to All on Tue Jul 07 2020 10:26 pm

    The following is more recent, and quite interesting:

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-cashless-society

    You know, when they said that operating in cash is more expensive for retailers, I was WTF????!!!!

    I mean, credit card processors charge for transactions, PayPal charges for transactions, etc etc etc. I am not buying the idea that their fees are lower than the alleged cost of the 30 seconds it takes to deal change to a customer. Specially in small family stores that are unlikely to be full of customers or build queues at all.

    I agree that cash is conveniently easy to steal, but then lots of wares in stores also are. Besides, going cashless does not make money harder to steal. It only makes it easier to steal by governments and banks.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Moondog@CAVEBBS to Ogg on Wed Jul 8 10:49:00 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Ogg to All on Tue Jul 07 2020 10:26 pm

    Hello Arelor!

    ** On Sunday 05.07.20 - 16:59, arelor wrote to Utopian Galt:

    I have yet to meet a real life person who thinks going cashless is a
    good idea.

    The only ones who seem to think so are bankers or politicians. And the bankers I know say it is "unavoidalbe" rather than "desirable".

    Politicians probably have investments/stocks in banks.


    In the end of the day people is always going to want to trade without intermediaries. If they tried to remove cash for good we will end up seeing what is already happening in South American communist hellholes: people will just use illegal money, or barter.

    Wasn't there an experiment in Sweden with a totally cashless process?

    This is absolutely astonishing (especially with the chips embedded under
    the skin):

    https://www.npr.org/2019/02/11/691334123/swedens-cashless-experiment-is- it-too-much-too-fast

    The following is more recent, and quite interesting:

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-cashless-society

    I never heard of the VΣstberga heist.

    "I hate cash. It's dirty," says Jowan ╓sterlund, a 39-year-old Swedish entrepreneur. "It creates friction and risk. It kills time."


    I know quite a few wheeler dealers that rely on physical currency to conduct business. When buying a car, tractor or other piece of equipment, having
    cash will make the deal go faster. They also do alot of work on the side, pai d in cash. I read awhile back India was elminating some of their high dollar bills to eliminate or make large cash transactions less easy, and I can
    imagine what would happen if the $100 bill was taken out of circulation. Imagine carrying $10k in $20 bills?

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Dennisk@MINDSEYE to Arelor on Thu Jul 9 18:37:17 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Arelor to Ogg on Wed Jul 08 2020 06:33 am

    The following is more recent, and quite interesting:

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-cashless-society

    You know, when they said that operating in cash is more expensive for retailers, I was WTF????!!!!

    I mean, credit card processors charge for transactions, PayPal charges for transactions, etc etc etc. I am not buying the idea that their fees are lower than the alleged cost of the 30 seconds it takes to deal change to a customer. Specially in small family stores that are unlikely to be full of customers or build queues at all.

    I agree that cash is conveniently easy to steal, but then lots of wares in stores also are. Besides, going cashless does not make money harder to steal. It only makes it easier to steal by governments and banks.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es


    Some people get away with strange justifications and excuses. I remember reading an article in the new, which was trying to prop up and justify the housing bubble, which had some rationale for why rising house prices actually made housing more affordable to purchase.

    If you want to make a particular point, or push an agenda, such as getting rid of cash, you can always find some screwy way to bend facts to justify it.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Arelor@PALANT to Dennisk on Sat Jul 11 03:50:01 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Thu Jul 09 2020 06:37 pm

    Some people get away with strange justifications and excuses. I remember reading an article in the new, which was trying to
    prop up and justify the housing bubble, which had some rationale for why rising house prices actually made housing more
    affordable to purchase.

    Hmmm.... so how do they make the argument that rising prices makes things more affordable, exactly? You made me curious...

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Dennisk@MINDSEYE to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 11:56:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Thu Jul 09 2020 06:37 pm

    Some people get away with strange justifications and excuses. I remember
    rea
    ding an article in the new, which was trying to
    prop up and justify the housing bubble, which had some rationale for why
    risi
    ng house prices actually made housing more
    affordable to purchase.

    Hmmm.... so how do they make the argument that rising prices makes
    things more affordable, exactly? You made me curious...

    From what I remember, the argument was that owning a house was a better financial proposition than renting in the long run, and I think they included the ability to use equity from your rising house price to purchase an investment property, which would make more money.

    They crunched the numbers, and found that because it was better and better for investors, that this means its more affordable. They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first place, and like most in the Real Estate industry here, they forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to use as speculative tools.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Mind's Eye - mindseye.ddns.net - Melbourne Australia
  • From Arelor@PALANT to Dennisk on Sun Jul 12 03:54:50 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 11:56 am

    Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Thu Jul 09 2020 06:37 pm

    Some people get away with strange justifications and excuses. I remember
    rea
    ding an article in the new, which was trying to
    prop up and justify the housing bubble, which had some rationale for why
    risi
    ng house prices actually made housing more
    affordable to purchase.

    Hmmm.... so how do they make the argument that rising prices makes things more affordable, exactly? You made me curious...

    From what I remember, the argument was that owning a house was a better financial proposition than renting in the long run,
    I think they included the ability to use equity from your rising house price to purchase an investment property, which would
    make more money.

    They crunched the numbers, and found that because it was better and better for investors, that this means its more affordabl
    They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first place, and like most in the Real Estate industry here, th
    forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to use as speculative tools.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    Hehe, I see.

    Whether to buy or rent seems to be a very cultural thing. Cultures where people switches jobs quite fast because they are
    always looking for somethign better seem to tend to rent; sedentary styled ones seem to prefer purchase.

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase rights", which means that you rent the house, and it at some
    point you want to buy it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from the final price of the house.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Mortifis@EPHRAM to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 12:36:23 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 11:56 am

    They crunched the numbers, and found that because it was better and better for investors, that this means its more affordabl
    They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first place, and like most in the Real Estate industry here, th
    forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to use as speculative tools.


    Hehe, I see.

    Whether to buy or rent seems to be a very cultural thing. Cultures where people switches jobs quite fast because they are
    always looking for somethign better seem to tend to rent; sedentary styled ones seem to prefer purchase.

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase rights", which means that you rent the house, and it at some
    point you want to buy it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from the final price of the house.

    I have something similar going on here, a 20 year (240 month) rent-to-own amortization with a no penalty walk-away option, though, I will not enjoy equity until the principle is paid... works well with my sedentary retirement life-style :-p

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Realm of Dispair BBS - http://ephram.synchro.net:82
  • From Ogg@EOTLBBS to All on Sun Jul 12 11:51:00 2020
    Hello Dennisk!

    ** On Saturday 11.07.20 - 21:56, dennisk wrote to Arelor:

    ...They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first
    place, and like most in the Real Estate industry here, they forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to use as speculative tools.

    That is why some young hopefuls would buy a "fixer upper", live in it
    while fixing it, and then hope to sell with a good return on investment?

    That too can be a dubious undertaking. The home-owner would probably still rely on outside income to support the cost of the "fixing".

    Some people overcome "the problem of buying a house in the first place" by convincing the seller to finance that home.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From HusTler@HAVENS to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 08:34:34 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Arelor to Dennisk on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:54 am

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase rights", which means that you rent the house, and it at some point you want to buy it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from the final price of the house.

    Really? Who pays for that? If I rent my house to you does that mean I have to sell it to you if you want it? Is your country communist or something? Selling and renting are two different animals. I may never want to sell a property I'm renting. That's my choice as a property owner. Please explain yourself. Maybe your talking about leasing with the option to buy?

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Arelor@PALANT to HusTler on Sun Jul 12 12:24:58 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: HusTler to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 08:34 am

    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Arelor to Dennisk on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:54 am

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase right which means that you rent the house, and it at some point you want to b it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from t final price of the house.

    Really? Who pays for that? If I rent my house to you does that mean I have sell it to you if you want it? Is your country communist or something? Selli and renting are two different animals. I may never want to sell a property I renting. That's my choice as a property owner. Please explain yourself. Mayb your talking about leasing with the option to buy?

    HusTler
    havens.synchro.net:23


    Lol, my country is not Communist yet, but it will get there if given time enough :-S

    Probably some language barrier going on. I think "leasing with the option to buy" is a fit description. You move to the house and pay as if it was a normal rent... if at some point you want to purchase the house, you pay the difference (sort of).

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 13:35:54 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Arelor to Dennisk on Sun Jul 12 2020 03:54 am

    Whether to buy or rent seems to be a very cultural thing. Cultures where peo switches jobs quite fast because they are always looking for somethign bette seem to tend to rent; sedentary styled ones seem to prefer purchase.

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase rights", which means that you rent the house, and it at some point you want to buy it they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from the final price of the house.


    some people say it's better to buy than rent. think of it this way, stuff can go wrong with a house and that can be pretty expensive. also you can get neighbors you hate and you have to deal with their shit.

    i lived in a house where a neighbor had a party every day of the week. they were up late and it was constant noise and they would burn nasty ass wood all the time which got inside our windows if we had it open.

    they had people pissing on our house and our fense and like 15 people standing on the sidewalk out front. always staring at US whenever we left the house or came home. so fucking annoying.

    that was at my ex gf's house. we split everything but stuff was always going wrong with it and i was always buying stuff to fix the house up. it got pretty expensive.

    right now i'm renting a 2,000sq foot house with another woman and too many cats and we had the water heater go out. we called the landlord and he had a new one in the next day. i never see him and we pay him and he stays happy.

    if i dont like where i am, i just move when the lease is up. it's that easy. ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to HusTler on Sun Jul 12 13:39:32 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: HusTler to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 08:34 am


    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase right which means that you rent the house, and it at some point you want to b it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from t final price of the house.

    Really? Who pays for that? If I rent my house to you does that mean I have sell it to you if you want it? Is your country communist or something? Selli and renting are two different animals. I may never want to sell a property I renting. That's my choice as a property owner. Please explain yourself. Mayb your talking about leasing with the option to buy?


    i'm sure it's optional. here in the usa we have 'land contracts' which can be handled that way.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to MRO on Sun Jul 12 14:34:30 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: MRO to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 01:35 pm

    some people say it's better to buy than rent. think of it this way, stuff can go wrong with a house and that can be pretty expensive. also you can get neighbors you hate and you have to deal with their shit.

    i lived in a house where a neighbor had a party every day of the week. they were up late and it was constant noise and they would burn nasty ass wood all the time which got inside our windows if we had it open.

    they had people pissing on our house and our fense and like 15 people standing on the sidewalk out front. always staring at US whenever we left the house or came home. so fucking annoying.

    It seems like that type of thing could happen anywhere, whether you buy or rent or live in a house or apartment or whatever. One time I lived in an apartment that was quite noisy. The neighbors above me often had parties late at night. The neighbors to the side of me sometimes liked to play loud music and apparently had their stereo right next to the wall connecting with my apartment, and I could hear loud bass even into the bedroom, sometimes at 2-3AM when it would wake me up. One time I went out to knock on their door late at night and ask them to quiet down, and another neighbor happened to be out there doing the same. They kept playing their loud music, so I eventually called the police about it for a noise disturbance late at night. The police went in and asked them to keep quiet, and they were quiet for about a week or 2 and started it up again. That apartment complex also had parking spaces for cars right outside of the bedrooms, and there was a diesel truck that someone kept parked outside my bedroom and they'd start up the truck at around 5:30AM and let it run for about 20 minutes before leaving. So I was usually woken up at 5:30AM by that.

    that was at my ex gf's house. we split everything but stuff was always going wrong with it and i was always buying stuff to fix the house up. it got pretty expensive.

    right now i'm renting a 2,000sq foot house with another woman and too many cats and we had the water heater go out. we called the landlord and he had a new one in the next day. i never see him and we pay him and he stays happy.

    if i dont like where i am, i just move when the lease is up. it's that easy.

    Yeah, spending money to fix stuff is definitely one thing I don't like about owning a house.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Arelor on Mon Jul 13 09:07:00 2020
    On 07-12-20 03:54, Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Whether to buy or rent seems to be a very cultural thing. Cultures
    where people switches jobs quite fast because they are always looking
    for somethign better seem to tend to rent; sedentary styled ones seem
    to prefer purchase.

    Where I am, renting can be a bit insecure. I have had one instance of the owner wanting to move back into their house, so had to vacate within 30 days of receiving that notice. Though once you've been in a rental for a while and the agent and landlord are happy with the inspections, chances are you'll be fairly secure in the long term.

    With some money coming, we're looking to build a house, which in the long term will need lower replayments than what we're paying for rent now. If we increase repayments to our current level of rent, then we'll pay the loan off quicker, and we get a more suitable house into the bargain. :) We're not looking to leave town any time soon, and are looking at a block of land not far from here.

    One issue here is rentals are in very short supply and rents are currently going up fairly quickly.

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase
    rights", which means that you rent the house, and it at some point you want to buy it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from the final price of the house.

    I have heard of that with some public housing, but the dominant rental market here is the private market. Public housing is in very short supply, with a waiting list of many _years_.


    ... NO! That's obviously wrong...I AM THE ONLY SOURCE OF THE TRUTH!
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    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Ogg on Mon Jul 13 09:16:00 2020
    On 07-12-20 11:51, Ogg wrote to All <=-

    That is why some young hopefuls would buy a "fixer upper", live in it while fixing it, and then hope to sell with a good return on
    investment?

    Well, a house still is an asset. Last house I owned, I sold, because I was leaving the big city, couldn't afford to keep the repayments up and didn't want to be bothered with renting it out. I did get lucky in that there was a spike in house prices at the time and made $100k after the loan was paid off. Much of that went into clearing all other debts, and the rest lasted a while, but didn't have enough to put a deposit on another house.

    That too can be a dubious undertaking. The home-owner would probably
    still rely on outside income to support the cost of the "fixing".

    That and they'd need the time and skills - getting outside help in means even more cost.

    Some people overcome "the problem of buying a house in the first place"
    by convincing the seller to finance that home.

    How do they manage that?


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    ■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
  • From Moondog@CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 23:48:00 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Jul 12 2020 02:34 pm

    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: MRO to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 01:35 pm

    some people say it's better to buy than rent. think of it this way, stu can go wrong with a house and that can be pretty expensive. also you ca get neighbors you hate and you have to deal with their shit.

    i lived in a house where a neighbor had a party every day of the week. they were up late and it was constant noise and they would burn nasty a wood all the time which got inside our windows if we had it open.

    they had people pissing on our house and our fense and like 15 people standing on the sidewalk out front. always staring at US whenever we le the house or came home. so fucking annoying.

    It seems like that type of thing could happen anywhere, whether you buy or r
    the side of me sometimes liked to play loud music and apparently had their
    knock on their door late at night and ask them to quiet down, and another n e went in and asked them to keep quiet, and they were quiet for about a week de my bedroom and they'd start up the truck at around 5:30AM and let it run

    that was at my ex gf's house. we split everything but stuff was always going wrong with it and i was always buying stuff to fix the house up. got pretty expensive.

    right now i'm renting a 2,000sq foot house with another woman and too m cats and we had the water heater go out. we called the landlord and he a new one in the next day. i never see him and we pay him and he stays happy.

    if i dont like where i am, i just move when the lease is up. it's that easy.

    Yeah, spending money to fix stuff is definitely one thing I don't like about

    Nightfox

    At least when you own a house, you decide how it gets fixed. As a homeowner, you might buy a higher ranked or higher output water heater than a landlord wo uld replace. Same would apply with heating or water conditioning. As a homeowner I can make decisions regarding paint schemes and changes I could
    not do if I was renting. For example, I can drill holes and run cable for net work drops or video cameras. I could relamp the house and change out older light fixtures or modify a walk-in closet to act as a safe room or security room. Any changes made to a rental have to be reversible or will not provide
    a return in investment when you move on. Any improvements to a house add to it's resale value if done right.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Nightfox on Mon Jul 13 01:54:54 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Jul 12 2020 02:34 pm

    they had people pissing on our house and our fense and like 15 people standing on the sidewalk out front. always staring at US whenever we le the house or came home. so fucking annoying.

    It seems like that type of thing could happen anywhere, whether you buy or r or live in a house or apartment or whatever. One time I lived in an apartme

    yes, but if you rent, you can leave!

    apparently had their stereo right next to the wall connecting with my apartment, and I could hear loud bass even into the bedroom, sometimes at 2- when it would wake me up. One time I went out to knock on their door late a


    i had a guy that would do that. real loud music all the time. one time i got so pissed off i jumped up and crossed my arms and hit the wall and landed on my bed. i knocked over whatever was on the other side of the wall and they stopped that shit. people that get high like to listen to music all day and all night long.

    outside my bedroom and they'd start up the truck at around 5:30AM and let it run for about 20 minutes before leaving. So I was usually woken up at 5:30A by that.


    oh god no 5:30am?! i had that at 3:30 very day right outside my bedroom window at the last place i lived at. it was supposed to be a quiet town of about 4000 people but it was one of the worst places i lived in.
    meth heads, rednecks, pedophiles, cops trying to pull people over for going 5 miles over the speed limit. nothing open after 9:30pm. fuck that.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Moondog on Mon Jul 13 01:56:45 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sun Jul 12 2020 11:48 pm

    At least when you own a house, you decide how it gets fixed. As a homeowner you might buy a higher ranked or higher output water heater than a landlord uld replace. Same would apply with heating or water conditioning. As a homeowner I can make decisions regarding paint schemes and changes I could not do if I was renting. For example, I can drill holes and run cable for n work drops or video cameras. I could relamp the house and change out older light fixtures or modify a walk-in closet to act as a safe room or security room. Any changes made to a rental have to be reversible or will not provid a return in investment when you move on. Any improvements to a house add to it's resale value if done right.


    yeah but those are all small things.

    if i dont like a place, i move. i'm about to put a fence in on my dime because i dont like fuckers in my yard all the time. i'm waiting until the prices of fence drop and then i'll do it.
    the owner knows and doesnt care what i do. he stays out of my hair which is nice.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Dennisk@MINDSEYE to Arelor on Mon Jul 13 20:00:00 2020
    Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    @VIA: VERT/PALANT
    @MSGID: <5F0ACFDA.1778.dove-debate@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <5F0A718C.931.dove-debate@mindseye.ddns.net>
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Sun Jul 12 2020 11:56 am

    Arelor wrote to Dennisk <=-

    Re: Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Dennisk to Arelor on Thu Jul 09 2020 06:37 pm

    Some people get away with strange justifications and excuses. I remember
    rea
    ding an article in the new, which was trying to
    prop up and justify the housing bubble, which had some rationale for why
    risi
    ng house prices actually made housing more
    affordable to purchase.

    Hmmm.... so how do they make the argument that rising prices makes things more affordable, exactly? You made me curious...

    From what I remember, the argument was that owning a house was a better
    finan
    cial proposition than renting in the long run,
    I think they included the ability to use equity from your rising house price
    to purchase an investment property, which would
    make more money.

    They crunched the numbers, and found that because it was better and better
    fo
    r investors, that this means its more affordabl
    They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first place,
    and
    like most in the Real Estate industry here, th
    forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to use as speculative
    too
    ls.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

    Hehe, I see.

    Whether to buy or rent seems to be a very cultural thing. Cultures
    where people switches jobs quite fast because they are always looking
    for somethign better seem to tend to rent; sedentary styled ones seem
    to prefer purchase.

    Here we have been having something we call "renting with purchase
    rights", which means that you rent the house, and it at some point you want to buy it, they take a big percentage of the rent you have already paid from the final price of the house.

    Imagine if milk sells for $2 for a 2L carton, then some "investor" buys up the milk, and divides the 2L cartons into 1L cartons, and sells each 1L carton for $1.80. Now, our RE industry argues that milk is now "cheaper" because where you had to pay $2, you now pay 20c.

    Real Estate is big in Australia. Very big. People here obsesses about it. Auction results make the news each week! Perhaps its an Anglosphere thing.

    I prefer to have a HOME. A place I can call home, which is more in line with ownership than renting. Unfortunately, that is not as easy to do now.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
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  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Vk3jed on Mon Jul 13 08:58:11 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Vk3jed to Arelor on Mon Jul 13 2020 09:07 am

    Where I am, renting can be a bit insecure. I have had one instance of the owner wanting to move back into their house, so had to vacate within 30 days of receiving that notice. Though once you've been in a rental for a while and the agent and landlord are happy with the inspections, chances are you'll be fairly secure in the long term.

    In the past couple years, I've heard of a couple stories here about apartment landlors who suddenly asked tenants to vacate within 30 days or something. I think there have been some laws enacted now to prevent landlords from suddenly forcing tenants out in such a short amount of time.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@OTHETA to PAULIE420 on Mon Jul 13 09:08:00 2020
    PAULIE420 wrote to UTOPIAN GALT <=-

    @VIA: PAULIE42
    @MSGID: <5F02C7D8.984.dove-debate@americanpibbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5F0208A4.53613.dove-deb@vert.synchro.net>
    Re: Cashless society is bad.
    By: Utopian Galt to All on Sat Jul 04 2020 04:59 pm

    The plan for the digital dollar.

    WHAT NO CASH ACTUALLY MEANS

    <snip>

    Google "Jews in the Attic" - this is one of the things 'warned'
    against...



    ... Does the Little Mermaid wear an algaebra?
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@OTHETA to OGG on Mon Jul 13 09:11:00 2020
    OGG wrote to DUMAS WALKER <=-

    I see more and more people using their watches and tablets for
    proximity (contactless) transactions.

    This is a convenient thing that I've done myself, but the CHOICE
    to do it or not should always be there...




    ... I'm not insensitive, I'm male. See the difference?
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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@OTHETA to ARELOR on Mon Jul 13 09:22:00 2020
    ARELOR wrote to OGG <=-

    I agree that cash is conveniently easy to steal, but then lots of wares
    in stores also are. Besides, going cashless does not make money harder
    to steal. It only makes it easier to steal by governments and banks.

    Yep! Of course it won't be called stealing... More like taxes, or fees,
    or whatever other socialist program is needed. :-(




    ... Disk Failure: (W)arm Boot, (C)old Boot, (S)teel Toe Boot?
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  • From Vk3jed@FREEWAY to Nightfox on Tue Jul 14 19:45:00 2020
    On 07-13-20 08:58, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

    In the past couple years, I've heard of a couple stories here about apartment landlors who suddenly asked tenants to vacate within 30 days
    or something. I think there have been some laws enacted now to prevent landlords from suddenly forcing tenants out in such a short amount of time.

    Actually, I was incorrect, it was 60 days, I had a brain fart - meant 60, typed 30 LOL. But that's the minimum notice landlords are required to give for reasons other than the specific ones that have different time periods.


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  • From Tracker1@TRN to Dennisk on Wed Aug 5 15:31:23 2020
    On 7/11/2020 6:56 PM, Dennisk wrote:
    They crunched the numbers, and found that because it was better and better for
    investors, that this means its more affordable. They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first place, and like most in the Real Estate
    industry here, they forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to use
    as speculative tools.

    Finally bought a house about 2 years ago... After my last divorce I
    didn't think I'd go into a house again tbh, but rent seemed to go up
    about 60% in 4 years in my second to last apartment. I moved into the cheapest centrally located apartment I could find and for about 2 years,
    saved for a down payment. When I was closer to pulling the trigger, I
    stopped my tax deductions from payroll from 3 cycles and put that extra
    money with my savings as a down payment on a house.

    It wasn't easy, it was uncomfortable and I wasn't always able to do what
    I wanted during those 2 years. That's how you manage to get into a
    house. That said, the house I bought is now showing only 2.4 years
    later that it's worth 19% more than what I bought it for. That's
    another crash waiting to happen imho. It's unreasonable and
    unsustainable to have that level of housing inflation. Not to mention
    that something like 50% of mortages were late or unpaid the month before
    last.

    I'm not sure how things will shake out, but I'm not moving for at least another ~3-5 years. I can only hope for my own sake that any bubble
    doesn't burst before I can sell, and that wherever I wind up moving
    they're in a dip/burst. I largely agree that investment properties are, potentially an issue. That said, there's a lot of options and
    opportunities for people to buy.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Arelor on Wed Aug 5 15:34:42 2020
    On 7/12/2020 1:54 AM, Arelor wrote:

    Whether to buy or rent seems to be a very cultural thing. Cultures where people switches jobs quite fast because they are
    always looking for somethign better seem to tend to rent; sedentary styled ones seem to prefer purchase.

    There's also a huge variance between men and women on this... Single men
    are far more likely to rent. In general, financial advice is to buy
    only if you intent to stay in place for 5-10 years as that's the typical
    break even to get ahead point.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@TRN to HusTler on Wed Aug 5 15:39:19 2020
    On 7/12/2020 5:34 AM, HusTler wrote:
    Really? Who pays for that? If I rent my house to you does that mean I have to sell it to you if you want it? Is your country communist or something? Selling and renting are two different animals. I may never want to sell a property I'm renting. That's my choice as a property owner. Please explain yourself. Maybe your talking about leasing with the option to buy?

    You aren't required to do this... there are renters that make it an
    option to their renters. For the most part, they wind up charging
    slightly more in rent than typical for the area, if they do sell, they
    will make money, and most renters will walk away without buying. It's
    mostly a tactic to improve turnover in a rental property.

    A rental in a friend's neighborhood did this... the rent was roughly
    10-15% above market in the area, and over the course of a decade 4
    different renters came and went.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Aug 5 16:40:45 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Tracker1 to Dennisk on Wed Aug 05 2020 03:31 pm

    Finally bought a house about 2 years ago... After my last divorce I didn't think I'd go into a house again tbh, but rent seemed to go up about 60% in 4 years in my second to last apartment. I moved into the cheapest centrally located apartment I could find and for about 2 years, saved for a down payment. When I was closer to pulling the trigger, I stopped my tax deductions from payroll from 3 cycles and put that extra money with my savings as a down payment on a house.

    I bought my first house in 2015 after living in apartments for a long time. I don't really like doing yard work, and I'm not really experienced doing house repairs & such, since I didn't do much of that kind of thing growing up. In some ways, I kinda wish I still lived in an apartment so I wouldn't have to worry about any of that. Or at least a nice house without many issues (I bought a somewhat older one), perhaps without a yard or trees.. I've seen people put a slab of pavement in place of grass, which doesn't seem like a bad idea.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Aug 5 16:41:45 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Tracker1 to Arelor on Wed Aug 05 2020 03:34 pm

    There's also a huge variance between men and women on this... Single men are far more likely to rent. In general, financial advice is to buy
    only if you intent to stay in place for 5-10 years as that's the typical break even to get ahead point.

    I'm glad I've stayed in my house for 5 years now then.. My wife and I have been thinking of finding a new house that would suit us better.

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Dennisk@EOTLBBS to Tracker1 on Thu Aug 6 09:31:00 2020
    Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-

    On 7/11/2020 6:56 PM, Dennisk wrote:
    They crunched the numbers, and found that because it was better and better
    for

    investors, that this means its more affordable. They completely ignored the problem of buying a house in the first place, and like most in the Real
    Estate

    industry here, they forget that houses exist for people to live in, not to
    use

    as speculative tools.

    Finally bought a house about 2 years ago... After my last divorce I
    didn't think I'd go into a house again tbh, but rent seemed to go up
    about 60% in 4 years in my second to last apartment. I moved into the cheapest centrally located apartment I could find and for about 2
    years, saved for a down payment. When I was closer to pulling the trigger, I stopped my tax deductions from payroll from 3 cycles and put that extra money with my savings as a down payment on a house.

    It wasn't easy, it was uncomfortable and I wasn't always able to do
    what I wanted during those 2 years. That's how you manage to get into
    a house. That said, the house I bought is now showing only 2.4 years later that it's worth 19% more than what I bought it for. That's
    another crash waiting to happen imho. It's unreasonable and
    unsustainable to have that level of housing inflation. Not to mention that something like 50% of mortages were late or unpaid the month
    before last.

    I'm not sure how things will shake out, but I'm not moving for at least another ~3-5 years. I can only hope for my own sake that any bubble doesn't burst before I can sell, and that wherever I wind up moving they're in a dip/burst. I largely agree that investment properties
    are, potentially an issue. That said, there's a lot of options and opportunities for people to buy.

    Median house price in Sydney is about a million AUD. Melbourne is a little cheaper, but not much.

    Good luck!

    People are holding off having children because they cannot afford the home, which means our wise managerial class want to prop the population by bringing in people, or allowing external investors to buy up our real estate.

    How people aren't rioting over this, I don't know.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Nightfox on Wed Aug 5 23:12:47 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Wed Aug 05 2020 04:40 pm

    growing up. In some ways, I kinda wish I still lived in an apartment so I wouldn't have to worry about any of that. Or at least a nice house without many issues (I bought a somewhat older one), perhaps without a yard or trees.. I've seen people put a slab of pavement in place of grass, which doesn't seem like a bad idea.


    pavement is expensive though.
    you can try having a wildflower garden. that's what people around me do.

    i hate cutting grass too. i used to be a pro grass cutter. i cut ballparks and everything. i have an electric mower and it's a pain because of the cord.
    then i have a gas mower but i think it needs to be sharpened. then if i use the gas mower i stink like gas.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Arelor@PALANT to MRO on Thu Aug 6 08:37:42 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 11:12 pm

    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Wed Aug 05 2020 04:40 pm

    growing up. In some ways, I kinda wish I still lived in an apartment so I wouldn't have to worry about any of that. Or at least a nice house without many issues
    bought a somewhat older one), perhaps without a yard or trees.. I've seen people put a slab of pavement in place of grass, which doesn't seem like a bad idea.


    pavement is expensive though.
    you can try having a wildflower garden. that's what people around me do.

    i hate cutting grass too. i used to be a pro grass cutter. i cut ballparks and everything. i have an electric mower and it's a pain because of the cord.
    then i have a gas mower but i think it needs to be sharpened. then if i use the gas mower i stink like gas.

    I moved to a mower model called Equus Ferus Caballus. They are big and unwieldly, but they are fully automatic - you leave them lose in an area and they trim the grass
    very quickly. If you have a male model and a female model, they will replicate and create a new mower every year. Their residues can be recycled and used for growing a
    healthy harvest. As a bonus, they provide lots of love and entertainment.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to MRO on Thu Aug 6 09:22:31 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 11:12 pm

    i hate cutting grass too. i used to be a pro grass cutter. i cut ballparks and everything. i have an electric mower and it's a pain because of the cord. then i have a gas mower but i think it needs to be sharpened. then if i use the gas mower i stink like gas. ---

    Not just mowing a lawn, but also pulling weeds, trimming tree branches, etc..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Arelor on Thu Aug 6 22:41:31 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Aug 06 2020 08:37 am

    I moved to a mower model called Equus Ferus Caballus. They are big and unwieldly, but they are fully automatic - you leave them lose in an area and they trim the grass very quickly. If you have a male model and a female model, they will replicate and create a new mower every year. Their residues can be recycled and used for growing a healthy harvest. As a bonus, they provide lots of love and entertainment.



    yeah but then you got the horse shit to deal with.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@BBSESINF to Nightfox on Thu Aug 6 22:43:06 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Aug 06 2020 09:22 am

    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 11:12 pm

    i hate cutting grass too. i used to be a pro grass cutter. i cut
    ballparks and everything. i have an electric mower and it's a pain
    because of the cord. then i have a gas mower but i think it needs to
    be sharpened. then if i use the gas mower i stink like gas. ---

    Not just mowing a lawn, but also pulling weeds, trimming tree branches, etc..


    weeding is horrible. i'd love to have a garden again but weeding is like another job. you have to weed that shit every day.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@CAVEBBS to MRO on Fri Aug 7 11:59:00 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: MRO to Arelor on Thu Aug 06 2020 10:41 pm

    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Aug 06 2020 08:37 am

    I moved to a mower model called Equus Ferus Caballus. They are big and unwieldly, but they are fully automatic - you leave them lose in an are and they trim the grass very quickly. If you have a male model and a female model, they will replicate and create a new mower every year. Th residues can be recycled and used for growing a healthy harvest. As a bonus, they provide lots of love and entertainment.



    yeah but then you got the horse shit to deal with.

    You normally have to pay extra for the fertilizer attachment.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Nightfox on Mon Aug 10 14:44:32 2020
    On 8/5/2020 4:40 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Finally bought a house about 2 years ago... After my last divorce I
    didn't think I'd go into a house again tbh, but rent seemed to go up
    about 60% in 4 years in my second to last apartment. I moved into the
    cheapest centrally located apartment I could find and for about 2 years,
    saved for a down payment. When I was closer to pulling the trigger, I
    stopped my tax deductions from payroll from 3 cycles and put that extra
    money with my savings as a down payment on a house.

    I bought my first house in 2015 after living in apartments for a long time. I don't really like doing yard work, and I'm not really experienced doing house repairs & such, since I didn't do much of that kind of thing growing up. In some ways, I kinda wish I still lived in an apartment so I wouldn't have to worry about any of that. Or at least a nice house without many issues (I bought a somewhat older one), perhaps without a yard or trees.. I've seen people put a slab of pavement in place of grass, which doesn't seem like a bad idea.

    Yeah, dealing with insurance etc for a leak from the master shower
    upstairs right now... can't believe how expensive it is. I don't have
    much of a yard to speak of, have a landscaper come by to spray for weeds
    once a month, that's about it for care... the backyard is stamped,
    stained concrete and the pool, the front is all rocks. The pool guy
    comes once a month. $60/mo for landscaper, and about $140/mo for pool.

    Just curious, what are you using to write your messages with? I've been
    using Thunderbird via nntp, but may look to other clients. Really want
    to make one of my own (nntp based bbs message and telnet client, with
    offline ability).

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Nightfox on Mon Aug 10 14:48:04 2020
    On 8/5/2020 4:41 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    There's also a huge variance between men and women on this... Single men
    are far more likely to rent. In general, financial advice is to buy
    only if you intent to stay in place for 5-10 years as that's the typical
    break even to get ahead point.

    I'm glad I've stayed in my house for 5 years now then.. My wife and I have been thinking of finding a new house that would suit us better.

    Yeah, daughter is in her senior year of HS, and will probably stay
    through her community college (down the street), will likely be looking
    at moving in another 4 years or so. Really like Boise, but seems it's becomming popular for California transplants now, part of why I want to
    get out of Phoenix is the political shift.

    Maybe South Dakota or New Hampshire, but will just have to see how
    things shake out. I have a feeling there may be a bigger political
    shifty as a backlash to the ongoing riots. Man, this really feels a lot
    like what I've read of Russian history from just over a century ago,
    it's like people don't respect the lessons of the past.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Dennisk on Mon Aug 10 14:52:32 2020
    On 8/6/2020 7:31 AM, Dennisk wrote:

    Median house price in Sydney is about a million AUD. Melbourne is a little cheaper, but not much.

    Good luck!

    People are holding off having children because they cannot afford the home, which means our wise managerial class want to prop the population by bringing in people, or allowing external investors to buy up our real estate.

    How people aren't rioting over this, I don't know.

    It will get interresting at the outset of the COVID lockdowns in terms
    of labor and how the economy recovers. I hope you guys don't relax
    foreign real estate investments, it's been a pretty bad result here in
    the US with crazy rent hikes over the past decade. A lot of that may
    well change with all the defaults on rent etc the past several months,
    and roughtly half the population not paying rent or mortgages last
    month. Will probably shift over into reforms on the credit agencies,
    which is way overdue esp regarding medical billing.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Dennisk@EOTLBBS to Tracker1 on Tue Aug 11 09:24:00 2020
    Tracker1 wrote to Dennisk <=-

    On 8/6/2020 7:31 AM, Dennisk wrote:

    Median house price in Sydney is about a million AUD. Melbourne is a little cheaper, but not much.

    Good luck!

    People are holding off having children because they cannot afford the home, which means our wise managerial class want to prop the population by
    bringing
    in people, or allowing external investors to buy up our real estate.

    How people aren't rioting over this, I don't know.

    It will get interresting at the outset of the COVID lockdowns in terms
    of labor and how the economy recovers. I hope you guys don't relax foreign real estate investments, it's been a pretty bad result here in
    the US with crazy rent hikes over the past decade. A lot of that may
    well change with all the defaults on rent etc the past several months,
    and roughtly half the population not paying rent or mortgages last
    month. Will probably shift over into reforms on the credit agencies, which is way overdue esp regarding medical billing.

    They are pretty relaxed as it is now. The laws are circumvented routinely, as the Real Estate Industry turns a blind eye to illegitimate sales to foreigners.
    I don't trust the RE industry to do the right thing, it is a den of jackals and liars. The government is too soft, and the RE lobby has a lot of sway politically, as they butter up their political "mates" to get what they like. You can see this when an RE developer demolishes a heritage building they are not authorised to, to build an apartment complex, you know, by "accident", and get a slap on the wrist.

    Australia is just a sheltered workshop for Real Estate spivs.

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Mon Aug 10 17:36:13 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Mon Aug 10 2020 02:44 pm

    Just curious, what are you using to write your messages with? I've been using Thunderbird via nntp, but may look to other clients. Really want
    to make one of my own (nntp based bbs message and telnet client, with offline ability).

    I've been using SlyEdit while logged into my BBS.
    I wrote SlyEdit, as an editor I wanted to use on my BBS..

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Nightfox on Thu Aug 13 01:52:20 2020
    On 8/10/2020 5:36 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Just curious, what are you using to write your messages with? I've been
    using Thunderbird via nntp, but may look to other clients. Really want
    to make one of my own (nntp based bbs message and telnet client, with
    offline ability).

    I've been using SlyEdit while logged into my BBS.
    I wrote SlyEdit, as an editor I wanted to use on my BBS..

    Cool, I have that setup for telnet.. I think the long line unwrapping is happening in my client... Some of the messages I was seeing from you
    were single quote on a long line. May just be a thunderbird thing.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Thu Aug 13 08:48:55 2020
    Re: Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Thu Aug 13 2020 01:52 am

    Cool, I have that setup for telnet.. I think the long line unwrapping is happening in my client... Some of the messages I was seeing from you
    were single quote on a long line. May just be a thunderbird thing.

    A while ago, I had updated SlyEdit to not do its own line wrapping. New message text typed by the user is saved as one long line. I thought message readers would be able to do their own line wrapping based on how wide it screen is.. I thought Thunderbird was intelligent enough to do its own line wrapping, but maybe not?

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Al@EQUINOX to Nightfox on Thu Aug 13 09:55:00 2020
    On 13 Aug 2020, Nightfox said the following...

    A while ago, I had updated SlyEdit to not do its own line wrapping. New message text typed by the user is saved as one long line. I thought message readers would be able to do their own line wrapping based on how wide it screen is.. I thought Thunderbird was intelligent enough to do its own line wrapping, but maybe not?

    I think this is the best approach since we can't assume everyone is using an 80x25 screen like we always used to do (although I am using that now). It
    would be simpler to simply wrap those long lines for the display we are currently using.

    Mystic was just updated to not truncate long lines at 256 characters and if your paragraph above was written as a long line then that update did what it was supposed to do.. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/11 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada
  • From Nightfox@DIGDIST to Al on Thu Aug 13 13:11:01 2020
    Re: Cashless society is b
    By: Al to Nightfox on Thu Aug 13 2020 09:55 am

    A while ago, I had updated SlyEdit to not do its own line wrapping.
    New message text typed by the user is saved as one long line. I
    thought message readers would be able to do their own line wrapping
    based on how wide it screen is.. I thought Thunderbird was
    intelligent enough to do its own line wrapping, but maybe not?

    I think this is the best approach since we can't assume everyone is using an 80x25 screen like we always used to do (although I am using that now). It would be simpler to simply wrap those long lines for the display we are currently using.

    Mystic was just updated to not truncate long lines at 256 characters and if your paragraph above was written as a long line then that update did what it was supposed to do.. :)

    It's good to hear some message readers seem to be wrapping text appropriately. :)

    Nightfox

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Nightfox on Mon Aug 17 02:39:04 2020
    On 8/13/2020 8:48 AM, Nightfox wrote:
    Cool, I have that setup for telnet.. I think the long line unwrapping is
    happening in my client... Some of the messages I was seeing from you
    were single quote on a long line. May just be a thunderbird thing.

    A while ago, I had updated SlyEdit to not do its own line wrapping. New message text typed by the user is saved as one long line. I thought message readers would be able to do their own line wrapping based on how wide it screen is.. I thought Thunderbird was intelligent enough to do its own line wrapping, but maybe not?

    Kind of... for the new part of the message I am typing in, it will wrap
    based on the input settings. However, the quoted parts, it leaves as a
    long line after the > character. Not that it matters much to me, but
    may look weird to downstream readers. For example, I didn't modify the
    quoted part of my own reply, leaving line endings as-is.

    It's definitely a T-Bird thing... and I'm connecting via my local sbbs
    setup which is doing qwk polling through vert... I still need to work on
    the hub a bit at some point. I'm considering just creating a bespoke
    NNTP server for holding BBS messages and creating a program to poll vert
    to start with. Still want to get it setup so that other nets/sysops can
    setup additional areas and push/pull and allow for inter-bbs messaging promoting nntp as the transport.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20
  • From Tracker1@TRN to Tracker1 on Mon Aug 17 02:41:58 2020
    On 8/17/2020 2:39 AM, Tracker1 wrote:
    On 8/13/2020 8:48 AM, Nightfox wrote:
    Cool, I have that setup for telnet.. I think the long line unwrapping is >>> happening in my client... Some of the messages I was seeing from you
    were single quote on a long line. May just be a thunderbird thing.

    A while ago, I had updated SlyEdit to not do its own line wrapping.
    New message text typed by the user is saved as one long line.  I
    thought message readers would be able to do their own line wrapping
    based on how wide it screen is..  I thought Thunderbird was
    intelligent enough to do its own line wrapping, but maybe not?

    Kind of... for the new part of the message I am typing in, it will wrap based on the input settings.  However, the quoted parts, it leaves as a long line after the > character.  Not that it matters much to me, but
    may look weird to downstream readers.  For example, I didn't modify the quoted part of my own reply, leaving line endings as-is.

    It's definitely a T-Bird thing... and I'm connecting via my local sbbs
    setup which is doing qwk polling through vert... I still need to work on
    the hub a bit at some point.  I'm considering just creating a bespoke
    NNTP server for holding BBS messages and creating a program to poll vert
    to start with.  Still want to get it setup so that other nets/sysops can setup additional areas and push/pull and allow for inter-bbs messaging promoting nntp as the transport.

    Viewing source to my own message... the quoted part is indeed
    unwrapped... while my new part is wrapped. What's interresting is that Thunderbird will unwrap the wrapped portion of the message for display.

    Also, it will wrap the text within the viewport... just feels odd in the quoted area. In the reply to my own reply above, it is actually
    wrapping, so seems to only effect the initial reply, not nested.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - coming back 2/2/20