Hey Y'all..

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our hobby.

Doc's Place BBS has been online since 1991 and was one of the first internet bbses when dial up bbses were going offline.

http://www.was-ist-fido.de/doks/fnews/fido1733.txt

A post similar to this one back in 2000 revived a dead board, and I'm hoping
to attract new callers.

We offer the complete Fidonet backbone. Access Doc's Place BBS by the web at bbs.docsplace.org or via Telnet on port 26.

We also offer QWK via web browser. Just set your web qwk areas and download
the generated packet. Uploading your rep packet works the same way.

Check us out when ya get a chance.. :)

Don't Shoot.. I'm only the messenger!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Fido Since 1991 BBS.DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)

On 07 Feb 17 19:05:00, Ed Koon said the following to All:

Hey Y'all..

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Nick,

On Tue Feb 07 2017 20:53:20, Nick Andre wrote to Ed Koon:

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our
hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

I haven't made it through every echo I carry yet during my newscan, but I'm fairly certain he posted it to every single Fidonet echo he carries. I sincerely hope it was a mistake, but if not, I'd have to agree with you on that
one. That was just plain ridiculous.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hi Nick,

On 2017-02-07 20:53:21, you wrote to Ed Koon:

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our
hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

And I don't think he's reaching the audience he wants to get the attention of...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On Tue Feb-07-2017 20:53, Nick Andre (1:229/426) wrote to Ed Koon:

On 07 Feb 17 19:05:00, Ed Koon said the following to All:

Hey Y'all..

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

And it was done without so much as a by your leave of those moderators. I can understand why he may have thought it was alright for him to do it, since I believe he wants to take Ross' place, but waiting for every echo moderator to give the okay may have been boring. In any case, I'm going through all of my areas and deleting his posts. I may actually end up with one in my BAD_AREA.


Regards,

Roger
--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ W10 (1607)
* Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)

On Tue Feb-07-2017 21:33, Nicholas Boel (1:154/10) wrote to Nick Andre:

Hello Nick,

On Tue Feb 07 2017 20:53:20, Nick Andre wrote to Ed Koon:

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our
hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

I haven't made it through every echo I carry yet during my newscan,
but I'm fairly certain he posted it to every single Fidonet echo he carries. I sincerely hope it was a mistake, but if not, I'd have to
agree with you on that one. That was just plain ridiculous.

Agreed.

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю." ---

...Blink once if you can read the above line, twice if you can't. (-:


Regards,

Roger
--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ W10 (1607)
* Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)

Re: Re: BBS Promotion
By: Nick Andre to Ed Koon on Tue Feb 07 2017 20:53:21

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our
hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

Yeah, and again today. Not pleased
--- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

On 2017 Feb 07 21:33:06, you wrote to Nick Andre:

Just a one time post to hopefully bring more bbs callers to our
hobby.

A "one time post", cross-posted in many areas.

Any respect I had for you and your system has been lost.

I haven't made it through every echo I carry yet during my newscan,
but I'm fairly certain he posted it to every single Fidonet echo he carries. I sincerely hope it was a mistake, but if not, I'd have to
agree with you on that one. That was just plain ridiculous.

it wasn't a mistake... he did it 16 years ago, too...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Spiders are high in protein, but they tickle.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi,

On 2017-02-08 13:23:00, mark lewis wrote to Nicholas Boel:
about: "BBS Promotion":

I sincerely hope it was a mistake, but if not, I'd have to agree with
you on that one. That was just plain ridiculous.

it wasn't a mistake... he did it 16 years ago, too...

That doesn't make it right. On the contrary I would say...

Bye, Wilfred.


--- FMail-W32 1.73.17.77-B20170207
* Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)

Hello Roger,

On Wed Feb 08 2017 08:10:16, Roger Nelson wrote to Nicholas Boel:

...Blink once if you can read the above line, twice if you can't. (-:

It looked as it should when it left here, just like it does again below! You just can't read it with the CP437/IBMPC charset you're most likely using. :)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On 2017 Feb 08 20:45:32, you wrote to me:

I sincerely hope it was a mistake, but if not, I'd have to agree
with you on that one. That was just plain ridiculous.

it wasn't a mistake... he did it 16 years ago, too...

That doesn't make it right. On the contrary I would say...

exactly...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... We eat fish and fish eat us.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On Wed Feb-08-2017 17:05, Nicholas Boel (1:154/10) wrote to Roger Nelson:

Hello Roger,

On Wed Feb 08 2017 08:10:16, Roger Nelson wrote to Nicholas Boel:

...Blink once if you can read the above line, twice if you can't. (-:

It looked as it should when it left here, just like it does again
below! You just can't read it with the CP437/IBMPC charset you're
most likely using. :)

I'll figure it out after I've had a nap. I've been up since 03:45.


Regards,

Roger
--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ W10 (1607)
* Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)

Hello Roger,

On Thu Feb 09 2017 08:46:08, Roger Nelson wrote to Nicholas Boel:

It looked as it should when it left here, just like it does again
below! You just can't read it with the CP437/IBMPC charset
you're most likely using. :)

I'll figure it out after I've had a nap. I've been up since 03:45.

In your case, TimEd most likely won't read it properly. You would probably have
to open the raw packet in a UTF-8 capable editor. In W10 (which I read in your tearline), notepad would probably do the trick.

TimEd is probably trying to convert the UTF-8 Russian characters to IBMPC, which won't happen. But to make it easier on you, It basically says "I don't know, I just work here" or via Google translate: "I do not know, I am here only
to work" in Russian.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On Thu Feb-09-2017 17:56, Nicholas Boel (1:154/10) wrote to Roger Nelson:

Hello Roger,

On Thu Feb 09 2017 08:46:08, Roger Nelson wrote to Nicholas Boel:

It looked as it should when it left here, just like it does again
below! You just can't read it with the CP437/IBMPC charset
you're most likely using. :)

I'll figure it out after I've had a nap. I've been up since 03:45.

In your case, TimEd most likely won't read it properly. You would
probably have to open the raw packet in a UTF-8 capable editor. In
W10 (which I read in your tearline), notepad would probably do the
trick.

TimEd is probably trying to convert the UTF-8 Russian characters to
IBMPC, which won't happen. But to make it easier on you, It
basically says "I don't know, I just work here" or via Google
translate: "I do not know, I am here only to work" in Russian.

Thanks. That makes perfect sense.


Regards,

Roger
--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+ W10 (1607)
* Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna - (1:3828/7)

On 2017 Feb 09 17:56:10, you wrote to Roger Nelson:

TimEd is probably trying to convert the UTF-8 Russian characters to IBMPC, which won't happen.

FWIW: there is no ""conversion""... it is simply displaying the glyphs represented by those raw bytes in their CP437 codepage positions... CP437 and other old-school codepage characters are only one byte wide... any ""conversion"" might come from translating between single byte codepages where the character glyph is transliterated from one position in the first codepage to another position in the second codepage where its glyph is stored... in that
case, the raw byte changes because the position in the codepage changed and the
byte is the position...


)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Never mind the facts - I know what I know
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello mark,

On Fri Feb 10 2017 06:03:54, mark lewis wrote to Nicholas Boel:

TimEd is probably trying to convert the UTF-8 Russian characters
to IBMPC, which won't happen.

FWIW: there is no ""conversion""... it is simply displaying the glyphs represented by those raw bytes in their CP437 codepage positions...
CP437 and other old-school codepage characters are only one byte
wide... any ""conversion"" might come from translating between single
byte codepages where the character glyph is transliterated from one position in the first codepage to another position in the second
codepage where its glyph is stored... in that case, the raw byte
changes because the position in the codepage changed and the byte is
the position...

You say potato, etc..

Fact of the matter is CP437/IBMPC will not display Russian characters properly,
whether they're UTF-8 or not. The only somewhat possible way for him to read it
properly would be to change his default encoding to CP866 or KOI8-R, and even then there is no guarantee that the translation from UTF-8 will work as expected.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On 2017 Feb 10 07:32:52, you wrote to me:

TimEd is probably trying to convert the UTF-8 Russian characters to
IBMPC, which won't happen.

FWIW: there is no ""conversion""... it is simply displaying the
glyphs represented by those raw bytes in their CP437 codepage
positions... CP437 and other old-school codepage characters are only
one byte wide... any ""conversion"" might come from translating
between single byte codepages where the character glyph is
transliterated from one position in the first codepage to another
position in the second codepage where its glyph is stored... in that
case, the raw byte changes because the position in the codepage
changed and the byte is the position...

You say potato, etc..

yes and no... it is really easy to understand though...

Fact of the matter is CP437/IBMPC will not display Russian characters properly,

of course not... their glyphs are different than latin glyphs... this is really
simple when looking at the old school way... there are numerous tables of 256 bytes... each byte represents one character, a glyph... some are actually control characters (eg: CR, LF) and others are just language characters aka glyphs... in one table, the space character is held in position 32decimal (aka 20hex)... another table also has the space in position 32decimal (aka 20hex)...
great! no ""conversion"" is needed for the space character... now, if the capital letter 'A' is held in the first table at position 65decimal (aka 41hex)
and the capital letter 'A' is held in position 25 decimal (aka 19hex) in the second table then some ""conversion"" is needed or you will see the wrong character when using one of the two pages... one will be right and the other just won't be... this is actually transliteration... there are mapping files created to point to the proper position for the 'A' when using the second table
(aka codepage)... this is easily seen when overlaying CP855 on top of CP437... most characters will align in the same cells of the table but some are different... they are generally up in the higher-than-127 range where the line drawing and box characters reside in CP437...

then someone came along and said "hey! we can do better" so UTF-8, UTF-16 and UTF-32 were born... UTF-8 is 8bit lossless and contains 1112064 positions in its table instead of the original 256... converting from codepages to UTF-8 is easy because every character exists in its huge table... going the other way is
not guaranteed because the glyphs just don't all map over... in some languages,
they have used "double characters" like "ae" to indicate the single ae character which i don't know how to make on this OS... other languages may also
have an "ae" character but in them you cannot use "a" and "e" side by side to indicate the single "ae" character... i don't know why, that's just the way it is...

anyway, i'm just trying to help you understand why there's no ""conversion"" as
such in the old school code pages... there is transliteration where on glyph lives in one spot in this table and another spot in that table... UTF stuff just greatly expands the size of the tables which means that the glyphs are now
represented by one or more bytes which are/were the old table position numbers in the old school code pages...

whether they're UTF-8 or not.

true...

The only somewhat possible way for him to read it properly would be to change his default encoding to CP866 or KOI8-R,

eaxctly...

and even then there is no guarantee that the translation from UTF-8
will work as expected.

because it depends also on what his OS can display... what i mean by this is that he has to be able to load the OS with the needed code page to view them correctly but if he does that, he'll lose all the normal latin glyphs... switching to UTF-8 on the OS will alleviate this but it requires that the software is also able to transliterate the characters to their new positions in
the UTF-8 table so they can be rendered properly... we've seen this with the box and line drawing characters... there's one or two BBS related packages out there that do properly transliterate them to their new positions in the UTF-8 table... i don't recall who did them or what packages they are/were but they are or have been participants in AGORANET and at least one of them was either a
BBS or a terminal program...

so, ok... too long a day... only 20:30 here and i'm already going to call it a night... on a friday damned night at that :(

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Well done! is better than well said!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello mark,

On Fri Feb 10 2017 20:35:06, mark lewis wrote to Nicholas Boel:

You say potato, etc..

yes and no... it is really easy to understand though...

I understand it just fine, though you seem to want to continue to teach me something I already know. :)

of course not... their glyphs are different than latin glyphs... this
is really simple when looking at the old school way... there are

Therein lies the problem from my standpoint. I've used CP437 (and still do when
it comes to the BBS itself) and all it's limitations. Besides displaying ANSI graphics on my BBS to callers using ANSI capable terminal programs, I'm over the "old school way" when it comes to messaging. There should be no limitations
whatsoever. One should be able to read and write whatever they desire. I went ahead and made that possible for myself. If others don't care to do so, that's their choice.

because it depends also on what his OS can display... what i mean by
this is that he has to be able to load the OS with the needed code
page to view them correctly but if he does that, he'll lose all the
normal latin glyphs... switching to UTF-8 on the OS will alleviate

In this case (as well as many others) I don't think the OS has anything to do with it. He's using Windows 10, which has the capabilities to use anything he would be so inclinded to use for his own purposes. It's the antique FTN software that is holding people back.

A lot of people choose to move on with their OS as they are released, but then get upset when their software from the 80s doesn't continue to work. Had the developers of that 80s software still been around today, they would have and could have updated it to reflect new technology in modern OSes.

With that said, I don't fault anyone for using what they choose to use. Whatever floats your boat and works best for you, by all means stick with it. However, I've chosen to make changes in order to accomplish things I've wanted to accomplish, and am okay with the fact that it may or may not work on other's
systems.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On 2017 Feb 10 21:55:14, you wrote to me:

You say potato, etc..

yes and no... it is really easy to understand though...

I understand it just fine, though you seem to want to continue to teach me something I already know. :)

some of the things you say seem to indicate that you don't actually know some things... it is easier for me to just go ahead and do it in the one post rather
than pulling hen's teeth going back and forth asking and answering questions...

of course not... their glyphs are different than latin glyphs... this
is really simple when looking at the old school way... there are

Therein lies the problem from my standpoint. I've used CP437 (and
still do when it comes to the BBS itself) and all it's limitations. Besides displaying ANSI graphics on my BBS to callers using ANSI
capable terminal programs, I'm over the "old school way" when it comes
to messaging. There should be no limitations whatsoever. One should be able to read and write whatever they desire. I went ahead and made
that possible for myself. If others don't care to do so, that's their choice.

agreed... and to coin a phrase, "but don't go shoving your religion down other's throats"**... as long as it is readable on other systems that are still
saddled with CP437, great... more power to ya... not everyone runs linux or winwhatever... hell, there's even some old commie and apple boards coming back... they have also been fidonet members in the past and carried fidonet on those systems... if one wants to communicate with the widest dispersal, they need to use the lowest common denominator...


** that's not about you, not aimed at you, and "you" is all inclusive, not singular... "religion" could be OS, GUI, BBS package, mail tosser, character set, politics, morals, or even genitals...

because it depends also on what his OS can display... what i mean by
this is that he has to be able to load the OS with the needed code
page to view them correctly but if he does that, he'll lose all the
normal latin glyphs... switching to UTF-8 on the OS will alleviate

In this case (as well as many others) I don't think the OS has
anything to do with it. He's using Windows 10, which has the
capabilities to use anything he would be so inclinded to use for his
own purposes. It's the antique FTN software that is holding people
back.

antiques are valuable... especially when they dwindle to fewer and fewer which drives their value even higher...

A lot of people choose to move on with their OS as they are released,
but then get upset when their software from the 80s doesn't continue
to work. Had the developers of that 80s software still been around
today, they would have and could have updated it to reflect new
technology in modern OSes.

those people are still around... they left fidonet because of all the politics,
in-fighting, and other general BS with others telling them /how/ to do what they were doing... some left for $$$ too...

With that said, I don't fault anyone for using what they choose to
use. Whatever floats your boat and works best for you, by all means
stick with it. However, I've chosen to make changes in order to
accomplish things I've wanted to accomplish, and am okay with the fact that it may or may not work on other's systems.

that's fine... remember, there was no attack against you...

BTW: what's going on with that proposal? were you able to get the last version from stephen off his HD instead of the last posted one? netmail reply is fine... just drop it off at my boss node, /12, addressed to this point... or route it the whole way... either way is fine by me...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... After god created woman, beer was the bug fix...
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)