Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
On 2017 Jan 03 20:01:24, you wrote to All:
Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
IIRC, no... it may take "-h" on the subject line after the password, though that's the original method used before the body style %verb options were introduced...
Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
It should...
Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
IIRC, no... it may take "-h" on the subject line after the password, though... that's the original method used before the body style %verb options were introduced...
On 03 Jan 17 20:01:25, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to All:
Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
It should...
Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?
It should...
When I send a %HELP to Ward's AreaFix, I get 2 messages in response. The first with:
The following is a list from 2:292/854 of available areas:
The other with:
2:280/464 is now active for the following:
Those are responses to %LIST and %QUERY. I was expecting a help text explaining the various commands which are available...?
Those are responses to %LIST and %QUERY. I was expecting a help text explaining the various commands which are available...?
Since I never got a response to this... Can you post the output of d'Bridge %HELP here?
Keep in mind I just published a minor update for this; so Ward's system
may or
may not show this paragraph of text, or it may show something entirely different as the Sysop has the option of specifying their own text.
Keep in mind I just published a minor update for this; so Ward's
system may or may not show this paragraph of text, or it may show
something entirely different as the Sysop has the option of
specifying their own text.
I haven't installed the latest version yet ... remodeling, refurbishing, IKEA and taking a lot of crap to the dumpster.
--- D'Bridge 3.99
I haven't installed the latest version yet ... remodeling, refurbishin IKEA and taking a lot of crap to the dumpster.
--- D'Bridge 3.99
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still get
the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
because not all areafixes are the same...
personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix that
i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of the
ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic,
vfido, bbbs, mbse... i'm sure there are others... why do i have to work with them when i have one main feed? because they are downlinks and i
keep asking for them to set no archiver for my system... some can and
some cannot... some don't even offer the option in the areafix... it is a real crapshoot at times...
because not all areafixes are the same...
personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of
the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic,
vfido, bbbs, mbse... i'm sure there are others... why do i have to work
with them when i have one main feed? because they are downlinks and i
keep asking for them to set no archiver for my system... some can and
some cannot... some don't even offer the option in the areafix... it is
a real crapshoot at times...
The standard is....there is no standard.
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
Latest Alpha version installed.
-R to RESCAN connected areas.
-R to RESCAN connected areas.
Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.
-R to RESCAN connected areas.
Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.
I think only those messages are scanned/added which do not yet contain the nodenumber of the requester in the seen-by.
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?
I'm not the the author. As you are not the author of dBridge... ;)
stillI just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I
AreaFix...get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your
Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?
I'm not the the author. As you are not the author of dBridge... ;)
You're right, can you teach me how to program tosser code?
I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...
Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?
because not all areafixes are the same...
personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic, vfido, bbbs,
The standard is....there is no standard.
There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003
And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...
personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some
of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail,
mystic, vfido, bbbs,
Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre ranting.
How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to collect different "help" screens? WTF?
The standard is....there is no standard.
There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003
And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...
Its not standard,
and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I
believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.
There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this
proposal.
How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to colle different "help" screens? WTF?
I don't think that's so bizarre. I'm doing it too. The basic functions (add and removing areas) are simpel and almost everywhere the same. But when you are doing something less common, like for instance rescanning, the syntax i often different. And I don't want to wait (sometimes) hours, before you get reply to your %HELP. It's quite easy to save the reply message to a %HELP o you got it for a later time when you "need" it...
and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.
I have this one saved:
AreaFix v1.30 User Guide
originally by Jeffrey J. Nonken
That's used by Bjorn. He called it the original AreaFix. It works about the same as d'Bridge with options (like -R -L and -Q) on the command line after the password.
There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this proposal.
I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system, so I don't know the details. But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or less to the method described in the fsc proposal.
-R to RESCAN connected areas.
Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.
I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system, so I don't know the details. But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or less to the method described in the fsc proposal.
-R to RESCAN connected areas.
Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.
Wrong, and not any more dangerous than any other tosser that has Rescan.
A tosser has an area called ABC. There are three downlinks. 229/100, 229/200 and 229/300. A new system, 229/400 joins and Areafixes ABC with a rescan. They get all the messages but 100, 200 and 300 do not because they exist in the Seen-by's in all the messages that exist already, and thus 229/400 is added into the Seen-by's/Path going forward.
The method used is no different than Gecho, TBBS/Flame and a lot of tossers out there... pretty sure even Fastecho does it this way but perhaps adds some extra kludging to indicate that the message was in
fact, rescanned.
The danger of the d'Bridge rescan is that it does a full rescan of all connected area's. Most tossers have commands to just rescan newly added are or just rescan a single area, and limit the number or date range of message
rescanThe danger of the d'Bridge rescan is that it does a full rescan of
all
connected area's. Most tossers have commands to just rescan newly added
are or just rescan a single area, and limit the number or date range of
message
The code in Areafix actually only rescans upon a first-connection, not subsequent or further rescan-requests; therefore logically it cannot
"all" areas; unless specifically instructed to do so.
And there is a rescan limit I programmed. Its been there for quite some time.
I'm not quite sure where you're getting your facts from, but you're wrong.
Any other things you would like me to debunk for you?
And there is no mention of a limit...
Any other things you would like me to debunk for you?
Does renegade cut the quoted sentences short? I'm missing some letters at t end of your quoted lines.
And I'm missing the reply kludge in your message. ;)
because not all areafixes are the same...
personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some
of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail,
mystic, vfido, bbbs,
Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre ranting.
How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to
collect different "help" screens? WTF?
The standard is....there is no standard.
There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003
And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...
Its not standard,
and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I
believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.
There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this
proposal.
personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some
of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail,
mystic, vfido, bbbs,
Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre
ranting.
How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to
collect different "help" screens? WTF?
I don't think that's so bizarre. I'm doing it too. The basic functions (adding and removing areas) are simpel and almost everywhere the same.
But when you are doing something less common, like for instance rescanning, the syntax is often different. And I don't want to wait (sometimes) hours, before you get a reply to your %HELP.
It's quite easy to save the reply message to a %HELP once you got it
for a later time when you "need" it...
and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I
believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.
I have this one saved:
AreaFix v1.30 User Guide
originally by Jeffrey J. Nonken
That's used by Bjorn. He called it the original AreaFix.
It works about the same as d'Bridge with options (like -R -L and -Q)
on the command line after the password.
There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this
proposal.
I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system,
so I don't know the details.
But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or
less to the method described in the fsc proposal.
Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.
Wrong, and not any more dangerous than any other tosser that has Rescan.
A tosser has an area called ABC. There are three downlinks. 229/100, 229/200 and 229/300. A new system, 229/400 joins and Areafixes ABC
with a rescan. They get all the messages but 100, 200 and 300 do not because they exist in the Seen-by's in all the messages that exist already, and thus 229/400 is added into the Seen-by's/Path going
forward.
The method used is no different than Gecho, TBBS/Flame and a lot of tossers out there... pretty sure even Fastecho does it this way but perhaps adds some extra kludging to indicate that the message was in
fact, rescanned.
You know very well that there is no fool-proof way for a tosser to
offer a Rescan feature, because some Sysop, somewhere, somehow, will
find a way to break it or configure things in a way not intended, and
we get "dupe-dumps".
ok... what does this do on a BBBS system?
^foo*
is your horizon limited like others' horizons are?
There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003
And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...
Its not standard,
agreed... but the document is a proposal that covers many areafix interface
so what happens when 229/400 joins and is also connected to /100, /200 and /300 when they do the rescan? i thinkg that's the point that wilfred was trying to make but he was making it from the POV of a fidoweb system that i connected to more than one system for the same area without the entire distribution being fully connected to all other systems in the fidoweb...
exactly... yet we have others working on ""hidden"" agendas trying to chang the entire methodology of FTN mail distribution to fit their non-standard w of interconnections...
The standard is....there is no standard.
There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003
And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...
That doesn't necessarily prevent a massive dupe dump...
But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or
less to the method described in the fsc proposal.
such as it is, it is a good attempt... hopefully it won't be used like other proposals and standards to try to beat others into some sort of submission...
What else is "less common" besides rescanning? What, changing
compression? Changing passwords? How often does any of that need to be done? Those are not
exactly regular requests nor are they the typical norm for a downlink. :)
ok... what does this do on a BBBS system?
^foo*
You mean Brobocop? Adds all areas beginning with FOO.
is your horizon limited like others' horizons are?
I just published a D'bridge update, my horizon is as clear as day.
There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003
And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...
Its not standard,
agreed... but the document is a proposal that covers many areafix
interface
That very well may be true, but for every person new to D'Bridge that expects the same "advanced" functionality in Areafix as lets say, Fastecho, and complains to me that D'Bridge is not in line with a "standard", I always ask to have the standard quoted back to me. Now
cue to the crickets chirping.
That is why you have an obsessive need to collect the various "help"
screens from many Areafix systems, because none of them with advanced functionality collectively follow a published standard set of
commands. Percent commands, reg-ex, wildcards, etc. Its a bit of a
mess... and overall I just find it a logical waste of time when basic commands suffice.
The Areafix code in D'Bridge was written heavily around what was "standard" for Areafix at the time... 1989. Add areas, remove areas.
List and query. Thats it. Chris coded "ALL" and "-ALL" but thats
really it for wildcards.
Adding percent-commands and the like means I have to rewrite the whole Areafix code... which has worked since 1989. Takes hours, maybe
days... loyal D'Bridge fans begin to worry that I may break it and
then we're back to "D'Broke".
Which is why I find it rediculous that I should write a full-blown
Areafix to cator to some obscure functionality like I explained to
Wilfred - Changing packet compression, passwords. How often does that realistically happen for a particular downlink? Remember Mark, I run a very busy Fido hub so I know what typical downlinks use and what they don't use. Those that aren't typical end up contacting me and we have
some good silly banter back and forth... thats a more rewarding
experience for me than studying help-screens.
so what happens when 229/400 joins and is also connected to /100,
/200 and /300 when they do the rescan? i thinkg that's the point that
wilfred was trying to make but he was making it from the POV of a
fidoweb system that i connected to more than one system for the same
area without the entire distribution being fully connected to all
other systems in the fidoweb...
Illogical.
But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or
less to the method described in the fsc proposal.
such as it is, it is a good attempt... hopefully it won't be used
like other proposals and standards to try to beat others into some
sort of submission...
Well, developers have to decide for themselfs,
but I think it would be a good thing if they followed this proposal,
if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...
I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and didn't know the syntax to subscribe to all echos.
if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...
somehow i don't know that nick is working on new functionality for db's areafix ;)
I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and
didn't know the syntax to subscribe to all echos.
the worst part is for hpt operators to even find the help text so they
can make it available for their links... i hunted and hunted for it... finally found it after two or three days... it really is a
GoodThing<tm> when areafix help texts are simple text files that can
be referenced when needed instead of being hardcoded into the
programs...
if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...
somehow i don't know that nick is working on new functionality for
db's areafix ;)
His latest version responds to a %HELP, where it didn't before. I
don't know if that is because the command is recognised, or if the
line isn't recognised as a local area, and it responds with a help
text... ;)
I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and
didn't know the syntax to subscribe to all echos.
the worst part is for hpt operators to even find the help text so
they can make it available for their links... i hunted and hunted for
it... finally found it after two or three days... it really is a
GoodThing<tm> when areafix help texts are simple text files that can
be referenced when needed instead of being hardcoded into the
programs...
I think he was referring to the fact that you use wildcards in your
*fix requests for the Husky tools (ie: [+]*/-* to subscribe to all
echos available, rather than D'Bridge and SBBSecho using [+]ALL/-ALL). Both ways probably match other software, but since Mark was used to DB
and possibly SBBSecho, it was a different scenario for him
specifically.
If it took you two or three days to search for and find the "misc" directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root directory,
then I suspect PEBCAK rather than the program itself. Where would you expect it to be otherwise?
And now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the DBRIDGE
echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest update. I'd call that
a success!
If it took you two or three days to search for and find the
"misc" directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root
directory,
why would i look in there? it isn't a misc file... a document or
config file, sure but not misc...
then I suspect PEBCAK rather than the program itself. Where would
you expect it to be otherwise?
after running make install i would expect to find it installed along
with the binaries and sample configs... but that's not what happened
for either of the help files or the sample configs... i had to find a
way to generate a config file to even get started... in that case i
found and used fidoInst by Zano and butchered that config into my
working copy...
And now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the
DBRIDGE echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for
users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest
update. I'd call that a success!
it is a success... no one is disputing that :)
If it took you two or three days to search for and find the "misc"
directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root directory,
why would i look in there? it isn't a misc file... a document or
config file, sure but not misc...
Sysop documentation happens to be in the "doc" subdirectory.
Configuration files happen to be in the "config" subdirectory. And
since you've already gone through both of those after install,
why not check out the "misc" directory? I would definitely consider areafix.hlp/filefix.hlp a miscellaneous file. It's not sysop
documentation so I wouldn't put it with the other sysop documentation
in the "doc" directory, it's a document for the user, to be placed wherever you want it to be, hence a "misc" file.
And if I remember right, you have to actually specify the location of
the areafix.hlp/filefix.hlp in your robots sections in the main
fidoconfig file, which means it's not hardcoded and can be located anywhere, hence the miscellaneous part. *shrug*
then I suspect PEBCAK rather than the program itself. Where would
you expect it to be otherwise?
after running make install i would expect to find it installed along
with the binaries and sample configs... but that's not what happened
for either of the help files or the sample configs... i had to find a
way to generate a config file to even get started... in that case i
found and used fidoInst by Zano and butchered that config into my
working copy...
I can agree with the config files. After 'make install' some default templates should probably be put into a proper place, since the config directory is specified in huskymak.cfg for a reason. But this doesn't happen.
The code is freely available to do whatever you want with it, though.
wasAnd now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the
DBRIDGE echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for
users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest
update. I'd call that a success!
it is a success... no one is disputing that :)
Instead of pointing that out, the first things mentioned after the fact
what DB's areafix was lacking compared to other tosser's areafixes. Nick has already stated he's not going to add in all the fluff that other tossers have added in over the years, so why beat a dead horse?
| Sysop: | digital man |
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