• TBBS

    From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to All on Mon May 9 22:35:46 2016
    In case anyone is curious, although the www.tbbs.org fansite is still running, it is notorious for going off-line randomly, for sometimes months at a time.

    I have archived all of the files from that site, including full installations of TBBS, TIMS, Flame, etc.

    TBBS at one time was "the" software for running a commercial BBS; and was only one of two packages I know of, that internally multi-tasked up to 96 nodes on a single computer without using a multi-tasking operating system. The other I think was MajorBBS/Worldgroup? Sean am I right?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/426)
  • From Darryl Perry@1:106/324 to Nick Andre on Tue May 10 08:15:06 2016
    On 05/09/16, Nick Andre said the following...

    In case anyone is curious, although the www.tbbs.org fansite is still running, it is notorious for going off-line randomly, for sometimes
    months at a time.

    I have archived all of the files from that site, including full installations of TBBS, TIMS, Flame, etc.

    TBBS at one time was "the" software for running a commercial BBS; and
    was only one of two packages I know of, that internally multi-tasked up
    to 96 nodes on a single computer without using a multi-tasking operating system. The other I think was MajorBBS/Worldgroup? Sean am I right?

    I think you are right about that. Galacticomm and eSoft were major competitors. I remember an issue of BoardWatch that featured a whole article about a speed test that Phil Becker conducted between eSoft's TBBS and Galacticomm's MajorBBS. They tested a full 96 nodes of each and found that TBBS outshined MBBS.

    "No matter where you go, there you are!" - Buckaroo Bonzai

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A13 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Cyberia BBS | Cyberia.Darktech.Org | Kingwood, TX (1:106/324)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Nick Andre on Wed May 11 22:02:08 2016
    Nick Andre wrote to All <=-

    TBBS at one time was "the" software for running a commercial BBS; and
    was only one of two packages I know of, that internally multi-tasked up
    to 96 nodes on a single computer without using a multi-tasking
    operating system. The other I think was MajorBBS/Worldgroup? Sean am I right?

    Yeah, MBBS/WG boards were the shiznet. Used to hang out on a 16-(phone)
    line one back in the day in Killeen, Texas.

    --Sean

    --- MultiMail/Linux
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Limestone, TN, USA (1:18/200)
  • From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to Sean Dennis on Thu May 12 00:49:46 2016

    On May 11, 2016 10:06pm, Sean Dennis wrote to Nick Andre:

    Nick Andre wrote to All <=-

    Yeah, MBBS/WG boards were the shiznet. Used to hang out on a 16-(phone) line one back in the day in Killeen, Texas.

    The best incarnation of my BBS was with TBBS...

    Used FLAME to toss echomail for fidonet PIMP for Internet e/mail Usenet and a host of other add ons. The Author was pretty cool to... worked for NASA. I actually used TBBS first when I left the old Atari BBS Express. I wrote the authors and let them know I was in high school and used BBS as a "science" project. (Actually did) and they sent me a complimentary copy of it... and shortly after that got two USR 14.4 modems. My science project was using a
    BBS to collaborate an laboratory experiment with other people across the
    world. I had my 1/4 page of fame in a magazine article.

    I ran a BBS in some form since the 300 baud days in the 1980's as a middle schooler.

    Allen

    ... Buckle up; it makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of the car. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Derby City LiveWire - Louisville, KY - livewirebbs.dy (1:2320/100)
  • From Shawn Highfield@1:229/452.1 to Allen Prunty on Thu May 12 06:31:28 2016
    Allen Prunty wrote in a message to Sean Dennis:

    The best incarnation of my BBS was with TBBS...

    I always saw TBBS boards as those corporte ones hardware companies ran to update your drivers. I never saw a TBBS that was configured more then the stock out of the box setup. :(

    The message areas never seemed easy to use to me either... Too bad there isn't one left running anywhere that had been configured.

    Shawn
    ... Software independent: It won't work with any software.
    ---
    * Origin: Tiny's Trailer (1:229/452.1)
  • From Andrew Haworth@1:123/525 to Shawn Highfield on Thu May 12 08:48:00 2016
    On 05/12/16, Shawn Highfield said the following...

    The message areas never seemed easy to use to me either... Too bad
    there isn't one left running anywhere that had been configured.

    I connected to one the other day to see what TBBS was all about, because I can't recall ever seeing one in my area back in the 90s. Anyway, my
    impression of the software was exactly what you described. The message system seemed clunky.

    I feel like one of the main purposes of a BBS is the exchange of messages,
    and I've always felt like so many packages just get that fundamental aspect wrong, mainly with a poorly designed browsing/reading/writing interface.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to Shawn Highfield on Thu May 12 13:53:36 2016
    The best incarnation of my BBS was with TBBS...

    I always saw TBBS boards as those corporte ones hardware companies ran to update your drivers. I never saw a TBBS that was configured more then the stock out of the box setup. :(

    TBBS was an amazing system... Every message conference on my system had
    it's own menu. It was quite easy to use if the sysop took time to
    develop their own UI. The machine it was on got hit by lighting and
    back then I did not have a USB drive or carbonite to back it up. My
    setup was very elaborate and everyone said it was the best incarnation
    of the livewire ever.

    Unfortunately, I had over 500 360kb floppies they were all low density
    then the high density ones were not developed yet. I tried to restore
    from backup but one critical disk would not load so it was lost forever.
    I went from TBBS to an earlier form of QUICKBBS and I did not stay
    there long because I outgrew the Hudson MSG Base.

    The message areas never seemed easy to use to me either... Too bad there isn't one left running anywhere that had been configured.

    Oh, mine were VERY easy to use... the interface was much like QuickBBS / RemoteAccess.... even more refined since I fine tuned it. John and
    Steve Richardson was in Louisville at the time and they wrote Toped and
    a lot of RA utilites. They talked me into changing to RA which I ran
    for many years before I went to wildcat version 3 then to PCBoard...
    which had issues for me. I went back to Wildcat 4 to get UUCP back...
    users were revolting since they lost access to internet e-mail that I
    had with TBBS. It was there in PCB but VERY VERY limited. I stayed
    with Wildcat for many years after that very satisfied.

    TBBS was, by far, the best that I ever ran hands down period! But it
    was customized to the n'th degree and when it crashed I did not have a
    means to restore it to it's full glory without months of downtime.

    Allen
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Derby City LiveWire - Louisville, KY - livewirebbs.dy (1:2320/100)
  • From Shawn Highfield@1:229/452.1 to Andrew Haworth on Thu May 12 14:40:54 2016
    Andrew Haworth wrote in a message to Shawn Highfield:

    I connected to one the other day to see what TBBS was all about,
    because I can't recall ever seeing one in my area back in the 90s.

    We had a couple around here because we're close to Toronto, but they were all
    corporate boards, with one exception, but the guy who ran that was a total dweeb and I wouldn't ever connect to his BBS out of pure spite.

    Can't remember his name, but hated him.

    I feel like one of the main purposes of a BBS is the exchange of
    messages, and I've always felt like so many packages just get that fundamental aspect wrong, mainly with a poorly designed browsing/reading/writing interface.

    Agreed. Which is why I like The RA and Telegard style systems.

    Shawn
    ... HE has not a single redeeming defect.
    ---
    * Origin: Tiny's Trailer (1:229/452.1)
  • From Shawn Highfield@1:229/452.1 to Allen Prunty on Thu May 12 14:51:08 2016
    Allen Prunty wrote in a message to Shawn Highfield:

    TBBS was an amazing system... Every message conference on my system
    had it's own menu. It was quite easy to use if the sysop took time

    You could do that with RA and PCB which I'm sure you know. :)

    Unfortunately, I had over 500 360kb floppies they were all low
    density then the high density ones were not developed yet. I tried
    to restore from backup but one critical disk would not load so it

    That's a shame. That's what happended with my Telegard setup as well. Well... bad backup tape.

    wrote Toped and a lot of RA utilites. They talked me into changing
    to RA which I ran for many years before I went to wildcat version 3
    then to PCBoard... which had issues for me. I went back to Wildcat
    4 to get UUCP back... users were revolting since they lost access to

    I ran RAUUCP at that time. It worked. ;)

    TBBS was, by far, the best that I ever ran hands down period! But
    it was customized to the n'th degree and when it crashed I did not
    have a means to restore it to it's full glory without months of
    downtime.

    Still a shame man, I'd have loved to see a configured one. :)

    Shawn
    ... I knew she was shareware the first time I laid eyes on her.
    ---
    * Origin: Tiny's Trailer (1:229/452.1)
  • From Eric Oulashin@1:340/7 to Andrew Haworth on Thu May 12 15:33:54 2016
    I feel like one of the main purposes of a BBS is the exchange of messages, and I've always felt like so many packages just get that fundamental aspect wrong, mainly with a poorly designed browsing/reading/writing interface.

    When I got back into BBSing in 2007, I decided on running Synchronet for my BBS software. When I started reading messages with it, I was surprised at Synchronet's message reader interface - Namely, that it seemed to want you to read through every single message in a message area. When you start reading messages, it drops you right into your first unread message, and then you can go
    "next" through each message. I used BBSes quite a bit in the 90s, though I don't
    remember if most BBS packages worked like that; however, Synchronet's reader interface seemed odd to me. I tend to like to see a list of messages and choose
    which ones I want to read based on the subject (although I do know that message threads tend to drift off the subject after a while). I ended up making my own message lister/reader mod for Synchronet where I could bring up a list of messages and choose the ones I want to read, rather than being (pretty much) forced to read through every single one.

    Eric
    --- SBBSecho 2.32-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)
  • From Rob Swindell to Eric Oulashin on Thu May 12 17:22:32 2016
    Re: TBBS
    By: Eric Oulashin to Andrew Haworth on Thu May 12 2016 03:33 pm

    I feel like one of the main purposes of a BBS is the exchange of messages, and I've always felt like so many packages just get that fundamental aspect wrong, mainly with a poorly designed browsing/reading/writing interface.

    When I got back into BBSing in 2007, I decided on running Synchronet for my BBS software. When I started reading messages with it, I was surprised at Synchronet's message reader interface - Namely, that it seemed to want you to read through every single message in a message area. When you start reading messages, it drops you right into your first unread message, and then you can go
    "next" through each message. I used BBSes quite a bit in the 90s, though I don't
    remember if most BBS packages worked like that; however, Synchronet's reader interface seemed odd to me. I tend to like to see a list of messages and choose
    which ones I want to read based on the subject (although I do know that message threads tend to drift off the subject after a while). I ended up making my own message lister/reader mod for Synchronet where I could bring up a list of messages and choose the ones I want to read, rather than being (pretty much) forced to read through every single one.

    Synchronet's built-in message reading interface was heavily influenced by WWIV. So if you're used to WWIV or one of its spin-offs (RG, Tag), it would seem familiar to you (e.g. use 'T' to list the next 10 messages, 'L' to list them all).

    Of course, I've seen and used other BBS software which always wanted the user to "pick" a message to begin reading and I never liked that design, probably just because it's just not what I was used to.

    So it's great that you were able to design something more to your liking and integrate that with Synchronet for your users and other sysops who prefer a different take on traditional BBS message reading. The fact that you were able to do that (and of course, I had to make enable some external "hooks" and probably fix some bugs along the way to make it more "seemless") is a testiment both to your programming abilities and the extensiblity of Synchronet.

    One of these days, I plan to replace the "built-in" message reading interface with one written in JS (though it will likely function much the same, since that's what I'm used to) and that should facilitate simpler replacement of that functionality with 3rd party modules, like yours.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #52:
    Synchronet Blackjack was the first multi-node/multi-user game for Synchronet. Norco, CA WX: 80.4°F, 44.0% humidity, 8 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Rob Swindell on Thu May 12 18:56:48 2016
    On 05/12/16, Rob Swindell said the following...

    One of these days, I plan to replace the "built-in" message reading interface with one written in JS (though it will likely function much
    the same, since that's what I'm used to) and that should facilitate simpler replacement of that functionality with 3rd party modules, like yours.

    I've always like like the built-in message reading system of synchronet, once
    I figured out how it works.. :)

    There are times I'd like to be able to use the up arrow key but only the down key works AFAIK.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A13 (Linux)
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Rob Swindell to Alan Ianson on Thu May 12 19:15:25 2016
    Re: TBBS
    By: Alan Ianson to Rob Swindell on Thu May 12 2016 06:56 pm

    On 05/12/16, Rob Swindell said the following...

    One of these days, I plan to replace the "built-in" message reading interface with one written in JS (though it will likely function much the same, since that's what I'm used to) and that should facilitate simpler replacement of that functionality with 3rd party modules, like yours.

    I've always like like the built-in message reading system of synchronet, once
    I figured out how it works.. :)

    There are times I'd like to be able to use the up arrow key but only the down key works AFAIK.

    Yeah, when reading a message, there's no built-in "scroll-back" type function (use SyncTERM's Alt-B key for that). I bet Eric has it that feature in his message reading mod though. :-)

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #8:
    CR = Carriage Return (ASCII 13, Ctrl-M)
    Norco, CA WX: 73.0°F, 58.0% humidity, 9 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From James Coyle@1:129/215 to Eric Oulashin on Thu May 12 21:20:16 2016
    "next" through each message. I used BBSes quite a bit in the 90s,
    though I don't remember if most BBS packages worked like that; however, Synchronet's

    It is pretty much the standard way to read messages, used by just about every BBS not just Synchronet. I think Mystic and one called WME were the only software I ever saw back in the 90s that provided an alternative to the traditional message reading, like you're describing.

    There were hardware and bandwidth limitations that made it much trickier to do back then, but I also think people creating these interfaces maybe just didn't have the vision to make something different either.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A14 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (1:129/215)
  • From Eric Oulashin@1:340/7 to James Coyle on Thu May 12 19:49:00 2016
    Re: TBBS
    By: James Coyle to Eric Oulashin on Thu May 12 2016 21:20:16

    "next" through each message. I used BBSes quite a bit in the 90s,
    though I don't remember if most BBS packages worked like that;
    however, Synchronet's

    It is pretty much the standard way to read messages, used by just about every BBS not just Synchronet. I think Mystic and one called WME were the only software I ever saw back in the 90s that provided an alternative to the traditional message reading, like you're describing.

    There were hardware and bandwidth limitations that made it much trickier to do back then, but I also think people creating these interfaces maybe just didn't have the vision to make something different either.

    My inspiration for having a message list and choosing a message to read mainly came from newsgroup and email readers (such as Forte Agent, etc.).

    Eric
    --- SBBSecho 2.32-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)
  • From Andrew Haworth@1:123/525 to Eric Oulashin on Thu May 12 22:42:00 2016
    On 05/12/16, Eric Oulashin said the following...

    surprised at Synchronet's message reader interface - Namely, that it seemed to want you to read through every single message in a message
    area. When you start reading messages, it drops you right into your
    first unread message, and then you can go
    "next" through each message. I used BBSes quite a bit in the 90s,
    though I don't

    Mystic has great message listing and selection. I think SBBS is quite good
    with messages too, as it was sort of based on WWIV, which I generally like quite a bit just for reading.

    Nice work on your mod too BTW!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Andrew Haworth@1:123/525 to Rob Swindell on Thu May 12 22:45:00 2016
    On 05/12/16, Rob Swindell said the following...

    Synchronet's built-in message reading interface was heavily influenced
    by WWIV. So if you're used to WWIV or one of its spin-offs (RG, Tag), it would seem familiar to you (e.g. use 'T' to list the next 10 messages,
    'L' to list them all).

    Yep, I love this method myself. I started in a WWIV-heavy area, so that
    reading system has always felt very comfortable to me. Some of the other reading methods just seem to involve too much button pushing!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.11 (Raspberry Pi)
    * Origin: Alcoholiday / Est. 1995 / alco.bbs.io (1:123/525)
  • From Allen Prunty@1:2320/100 to Shawn Highfield on Fri May 13 00:27:06 2016
    Allen Prunty wrote in a message to Shawn Highfield:

    TBBS was an amazing system... Every message conference on my system
    had it's own menu. It was quite easy to use if the sysop took time

    You could do that with RA and PCB which I'm sure you know. :)

    Actually I've never found any system as configurable as Tbbs. It used a message base much like the hudson base but did not have the same
    limitations.

    I could define what every command looked like right down to the
    keystroke. I could make TBbs look slike any BBS software you could
    imagine.

    I ran RAUUCP at that time. It worked. ;)

    It was becoming harder to find a provider for UUCP that provided UUCICO
    type connections as providers were transitioning to NNTP. Wildcat used
    NNTP, PCB and RA used UUCICO. With winserver I can provide a UUCICO
    feed to those who want it today, but even at that it's limited.

    Still a shame man, I'd have loved to see a configured one. :)

    I lost most o fmy userbase when it crashed. I ran it for the longest
    other than winserver. I got a lot back when I came to wildcat, but for
    the longest I lost a lot of users.

    But then, in the TBBS days the users used the message bases and files...
    as it progressed they wanted games, tradewars, and more. When I was
    with D.I.S.K. it was an alternative to compuserve and genie. Prodigy
    was just starting to come out in those days... and AOL was it's own
    service altogether. The BBS was popular becuase most of them were free.
    When I ran TBBS I asked each user for $1-5 a month for donations. I had
    three phone lines as that was th emax we could have at our house
    normally it was two but we had a separate apartment in the basement that
    had it's own address. The donations paid for the phone lines. I spent
    a fortune with MCI back in the day even with friends and family to move
    the netmail. Sadly, I had one bill where I called 10 times a second to
    my host for over an hour it was astronomical and they counted each call
    as one full minute. I had to get the public utilities commission to get
    them to back down on the bill as they wouldn't budge for months.

    Allen
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Derby City LiveWire - Louisville, KY - livewirebbs.dy (1:2320/100)
  • From James Coyle@1:129/215 to Eric Oulashin on Fri May 13 00:22:31 2016
    My inspiration for having a message list and choosing a message to read mainly came from newsgroup and email readers (such as Forte Agent, etc.).

    Interesting that you say that. I remember someone about a year ago telling me they were trying to get someone to make a reader that worked like Mystic for their Synchronet BBS, and a bit later he was testing early versions of yours.

    Did the ANSI messages come from Forte too? Or the kludge toggle, or or
    or... ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A14 (Windows)
    * Origin: Sector 7 [Mystic BBS WHQ] (1:129/215)
  • From Eric Oulashin@1:340/7 to Andrew Haworth on Thu May 12 22:50:51 2016
    Re: Re: TBBS
    By: Andrew Haworth to Eric Oulashin on Thu May 12 2016 22:42:00

    Mystic has great message listing and selection. I think SBBS is quite good with messages too, as it was sort of based on WWIV, which I generally like quite a bit just for reading.

    Nice work on your mod too BTW!

    Thanks. :)

    Eric
    --- SBBSecho 2.32-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)
  • From Eric Oulashin@1:340/7 to James Coyle on Thu May 12 22:54:51 2016
    Re: TBBS
    By: James Coyle to Eric Oulashin on Fri May 13 2016 00:22:31

    Did the ANSI messages come from Forte too? Or the kludge toggle, or or or... ;)

    ? :) Forte was a newsgroup reader and as such, didn't do that stuff. It was mainly the message list and pick-and-choose interface that inspired me, at least with my original message lister (which morphed into my reader).

    Eric
    --- SBBSecho 2.32-Win32
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)