Hi Folks,

Something I've noticed after Vince's message from earlier today; the
timezone offset isn't being honored on the date-time fields in the
message base.

Is this a specific problem that my system has, or can some of you confirm.

Examples (in the order in my message base, and it would appear the order
of replies as well):

From: "Vince Coen <2:250/1>"
Newsgroups: fidonet.mbse
Subject: Messages?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 20:21:34 -0400

From: "Nicholas Boel <1:154/10>"
Newsgroups: fidonet.mbse
Subject: Messages?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:10:04 -0400

From: "Andrew Leary <1:320/119>"
Newsgroups: fidonet.mbse
Subject: Messages?
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 19:10:09 -0400



It is obvious that Nicholas didn't reply to Vince's message before he
posted it, nor Andrew -- but if you go on the dates - It sure looks that
way.

-Scott




--- MBSE BBS v0.95.12 (GNU/Linux-i386)
* Origin: -=[ Space Station Alpha ]=- (1:266/420@fidonet)

Re: Date/Time in Messages
By: Scott Street to All on Wed Apr 04 2012 09:48 pm

Something I've noticed after Vince's message from earlier today; the timezone offset isn't being honored on the date-time fields in the
message base.

Is this a specific problem that my system has, or can some of you
confirm.

I can confirm this over here as well. Though I didn't know there was any timezone "offset". I figure if Vince posts at 20:21pm and I post at 17:10pm,
he probably lives in Europe, and I posted quite a few hours after he did. :)

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org
--- SBBSecho 2.13-Linux
* Origin: thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On 4/4/12 10:00 PM, Nicholas Boel -> Scott Street wrote:

> Something I've noticed after Vince's message from earlier today; the
> timezone offset isn't being honored on the date-time fields in the
> message base.

I can confirm this over here as well. Though I didn't know there was any timezone "offset". I figure if Vince posts at 20:21pm and I post at 17:10pm, he probably lives in Europe, and I posted quite a few hours after he did. :)

Well, I fell silly. There is a FTSC doc (fsp-1001.002) about including
the timezone offset from UTC in a kludge (@TZUTC:); however it seems
that it was never widely adopted nor implemented.

Oh well... going back to silent running again.



--- MBSE BBS v0.95.12 (GNU/Linux-i386)
* Origin: -=[ Space Station Alpha ]=- (1:266/420@fidonet)

Re: Re: Date/Time in Messages
By: Scott Street to Nicholas Boel on Thu Apr 05 2012 01:40 pm

Well, I fell silly. There is a FTSC doc (fsp-1001.002) about including
the timezone offset from UTC in a kludge (@TZUTC:); however it seems
that it was never widely adopted nor implemented.

Hey, no worries. Even P4 is loosely implemented, for the most part.

Oh well... going back to silent running again.

Nah. Keep doing what you're doing. It's conversation that keeps this network chugging along at a snail pace. :)

I don't even run MBSE, but I've tried it. Not so much my thing, but it does (by looking at it) seem to be a great software. Which is why I stay attached to this echo so I know the ongoings of it.

Current developed software for this technology is scarce enough. I'll do what I can to help support it all, if only to chat in a Fidonet echo and give a test call here and there. :)

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org
--- SBBSecho 2.13-Linux
* Origin: thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On 4/5/12 8:57 PM, Nicholas Boel -> Scott Street wrote:

Nah. Keep doing what you're doing. It's conversation that keeps this network chugging along at a snail pace. :)

It really is a shame that Fidonet is dieing off. I've been running a
BBS since 1986; I saw Z1 heyday - and collapse. I even got connected
to Usenet years ago. I always thought and still do, that while POTS
Fidonet servers/services will disappear, the conferencing system would
survive as a friendlier alternative to Usenet. If fact, my
concentration on development is in the NNTP Server space on MBSE. I
care not so much to look at plain text menus/screens as much as getting
to the message to read and post.

I don't even run MBSE, but I've tried it. Not so much my thing, but it does

(by

looking at it) seem to be a great software. Which is why I stay attached to this echo so I know the ongoings of it.

I'd like to hear why SBBS over MBSE - perhaps the suggestions will
filter in. :) Plus, I'm curious.

Current developed software for this technology is scarce enough. I'll do

what I

can to help support it all, if only to chat in a Fidonet echo and give a

test

call here and there. :)

Same here - I would hope that we (the sysops of Fidonet) can make the conferences and data more accessible to the end user. Internet forums
are easy and dedicated to topics that the user desires. I believe for
our network to survive we need to be able to offer those services to the
user with the ease of web access. Even NNTP access is just a stepping
stone.

I started a project a couple of years ago to bind Fidonet Netmail and
Echomail to a web forum - I got a skeleton system working, but it's been mothballed by the lack of time.





--- MBSE BBS v0.95.12 (GNU/Linux-i386)
* Origin: -=[ Space Station Alpha ]=- (1:266/420@fidonet)

Re: Re: Date/Time in Messages
By: Scott Street to Nicholas Boel on Fri Apr 06 2012 10:36 am

I'd like to hear why SBBS over MBSE - perhaps the suggestions will
filter in. :) Plus, I'm curious.

It's more user friendly, IMO.

MBSE seems very much designed for the "Fidonet Sysop." I didn't join Fidonet until about a year ago, so I had no interest in most of the overly convoluted setup/configuration that MBSE has.

Back in the mid 90s when I ran a BBS, I also contributed to the "Artscene" so I based, and still base my opinions of BBS software around that. OBV/2, Iniquity, Vision/2, Pipeline, and Renegade were some of my favorites back then.

To be honest, the only reason I'm running Synchronet now is because Mystic's development stopped for a good few years, and everyone's hopes and expectations of future development of the software was dwindling. I moved on to something that was currently being developed (though still wasn't interested in Fidonet technology at the time). With Synchronet, I was able to ease my way into that, and learn a lot more in the process with 3rd party programs, rather than having a BBS software that does everything for you.

Now that Mystic is -- and has been back in development.. I'm setting up a point system with it, that might very well make it back up the ranks to replacing my main system.

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org
--- SBBSecho 2.13-Linux
* Origin: thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Re: Re: Date/Time in Messages
By: Scott Street to Nicholas Boel on Fri Apr 06 2012 10:36 am

Same here - I would hope that we (the sysops of Fidonet) can make the conferences and data more accessible to the end user. Internet forums
are easy and dedicated to topics that the user desires. I believe for
our network to survive we need to be able to offer those services to the user with the ease of web access. Even NNTP access is just a stepping stone.

Forgot there was more to be quoted/responded to. :)

Synchronet has a web interface that includes messages, though it's not like a "forum" or anything, and not many have worked on it for quite some time.

I actually recently shut down my Synchronet web server, and just started running Apache2. I made a link to utilize fTelnet (flash telnet client) to connect directly to the BBS via a web browser, a flash IRC client to connect to irc.bbs-scene.org, and then stats, game scores, and links. Nothing fancy, but it's http://www.pharcyde.org if you'd like to check it out.

I started a project a couple of years ago to bind Fidonet Netmail and Echomail to a web forum - I got a skeleton system working, but it's been mothballed by the lack of time.

If you ever get something substantial going, I'd probably be onboard as far as testing, as I'm sure many others would be as well. Some people are still whipping together an old version of vBulletin and moving messages back and forth via NNTP, I believe. Sounds like too much of a pain in the butt to me, to be honest. :)

--
Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org
http://pharcyde.org
--- SBBSecho 2.13-Linux
* Origin: thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

to Usenet years ago. I always thought and still do, that while POTS
Fidonet servers/services will disappear, the conferencing system
would survive as a friendlier alternative to Usenet.

Text message Usenet is almost as dead as FIDO. Nothing will bring back
the glory days, but a FIDO style network could still be interesting to hobbyists.

Problem with FIDO is the politics and cumbersome organization. The only
way forwared is to abandon FIDO and its policy. Start over with the
same technology but none of the politics or organizational structure.

--- QScan/PCB v1.20a / 01-0462
* Origin: Christian Fellowship | cfbbs.dtdns.net 856-933-7096 (1:266/512)

Hello Trifle!

06 Apr 2012 20:42, Trifle Menot wrote to Scott Street:

to Usenet years ago. I always thought and still do, that while POTS
Fidonet servers/services will disappear, the conferencing system
would survive as a friendlier alternative to Usenet.

usenet qouting ^^^

Text message Usenet is almost as dead as FIDO.

usenet died when my isp killed binaries

Nothing will bring back the glory days, but a FIDO style network could

still be interesting to hobbyists.

lol, none have a life in fidonet anymore, not even me :)

Problem with FIDO is the politics and cumbersome organization.

aha, its not lack of modem users ?

The only way forwared is to abandon FIDO and its policy.

its not very helpfull to trow out the old modem and get binkd ?

Start over with the same technology but none of the politics or

organizational structure.

no thanks, isdn was horrible for me in cost of money, but sure so is anything as today, it cost money as always, but life time is shourtned, tv build in 1960
worked in 1970'es, how long does your dvb-* something work ?


Regards Benny

... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.1.10-gentoo-r1 (i686))
* Origin: home.junc.org where qico is waiting (2:230/0)

Hello Scott!

04 Apr 12 21:48, you wrote to All:

Something I've noticed after Vince's message from earlier today; the timezone offset isn't being honored on the date-time fields in the
message base.

Looking at my msg I can not see any TZUTC setting which might explain it.

Just not sure where I set it!!







Vince

--- Linux/Mbse/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)

Hello Scott!

16 Apr 12 21:42, you wrote to :

Looking at my msg I can not see any TZUTC setting which might
explain it.

Aren't you already on UTC? :)

Yep but I used to have some king of setting for it even if only for this time of year when its set as TZUTC=0100

May be it went redundant when I switched from OS/2 and Maximus to Linux and mbse?

Just cannot remember, and I'm only 65 in June.
That does start to worry me :)

* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)

Just figuring based on your location in nodelist.

If your system's timezone is already UTC - then TZUTC would be
redundant.

Yep, but see above!

But Fidonet has been broken ever since the first message layout was specified as local time being transmitted. It should have NEVER been
local time transmitted, but UTC (GMT then) always. Whether or not the
time stored in the local message base was UTC or local should have
been up to the implementer of the software.

I digress... message time is a network wide issue, the TZUTC is a
kludge that is ignored on most software end-points anyway. I should propose a FTSC change to move to UTC time in all messages during
transport, leaving the local storage up to the implementers.

As I said it was in use on the old MSDos based s/w, can't recall is used in windows but would guess yes.

Must have a look through the docs for mbse and see if there is any mention of it as its been years since doing so.

The system is more or less fully automated, just as well as I run multiple services on same box such as httpd, Ftp, Mysql, Postgres, DB/2 servers as well as MS sql 2008 and Oracle in seperate VMs (under VirualBox but only run when required).

Not bad with a E6600 cpu and 6Gb Ram.

Vince

--- Linux/Mbse/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK (2:250/1)