I haven't seen religion being forced on anybody,

Pro-Life rulings -- All recent state laws banning abortions --
including some that "forgot" to include language exempting cases of rape, incest, and danger to the mother -- were backed by/forced through by religious conservatives. Other laws, that would allow the travel of
women of child- bearing years to be tracked without their consent, were considered and were also backed by religious conservatives.

I understand your point, but these conservatives that you're talking about
were elected by voters (Weren't they?)

I can't honestly say that Biden forced 7 million illegal immigrants on us because we elected him. It's ultimately the voters who force things on people.

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Pro-Life rulings -- All recent state laws banning abortions --
including some that "forgot" to include language exempting cases of rape,
incest, and danger to the mother -- were backed by/forced through by religious conservatives. Other laws, that would allow the travel of women of child- bearing years to be tracked without their consent, were considered and were also backed by religious conservatives.

I understand your point, but these conservatives that you're talking about were elected by voters (Weren't they?)

Yes, but it still doesn't change the fact that we *do* have religious based laws despite there being "separation of church and state." That being
said, did they all promise to do such things when they campaigned? If any didn't, their actions aren't the voters' faults.

I can't honestly say that Biden and Johnson forced 7 million illegal immigrants on us because we elected them. It's ultimately the voters who force things on people.

Fixed it for you, and it is mostly true, especially of Biden. Johnson and
his ilk had a good chance to fix the problem and didn't take it for
political reasons.

I don't know how many of the 7 million came across before that point, but
any after that point are at least equally on our Republican "friends" in Congress. I would bet that nearly all of those Republicans, including
Johnson, campaigned on one thing ("close the border!") but then did something else ("don't close the border!"). So, in that case, that is on those Republicans and not the voters.

Aside from Trump, I am leerly to trust that any other Republicans will
stick to any promise regarding closing the border.


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Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

I can't honestly say that Biden forced 7 million illegal immigrants on
us because we elected him. It's ultimately the voters who force things
on people.

It's ultimately the voters who are SUPPOSED to force things on people.

We didn't ask for Biden-flation. We didn't ask for the illegals. We didn't ask for the billions sent to Ukraine.


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I understand your point, but these conservatives that you're talking abo were elected by voters (Weren't they?)

Yes, but it still doesn't change the fact that we *do* have religious based laws despite there being "separation of church and state." That being said, did they all promise to do such things when they campaigned? If any didn't, their actions aren't the voters' faults.

Sometimes the laws that we desire correspond with religion. In Christianity, "Thou shall not kill" is synonymous with "Murder in the 1st degree." And many people will argue that abortion is synonymous with 1st degree murder.

Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in Virginia?

There will be times when the majority will want the same thing that Christians want (I think it happens quite often.)

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I can't honestly say that Biden forced 7 million illegal immigrants o us because we elected him. It's ultimately the voters who force thing on people.

It's ultimately the voters who are SUPPOSED to force things on people.

We didn't ask for Biden-flation. We didn't ask for the illegals. We didn't ask for the billions sent to Ukraine.

You and me didn't ask for those things, but the lefties did. We warned them about the border, and the Obama/Biden administration should have served as a warning about Ukraine, but they did what their television told them to do.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in
Virginia?

Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not.
What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two, those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed someone the wrong way. It ended up overshadowing the whole post-birth abortion blunder. Then his Lt Gov was accused of rape, and the attorney general, for some reason, came out and admitted he had dressed in blackface before. On top of that, Gov Northam admitted to that too, dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts somehow. Not to take it OT too far.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Dr. What <=-

You and me didn't ask for those things, but the lefties did. We warned them about the border, and the Obama/Biden administration should have served as a warning about Ukraine, but they did what their television
told them to do.

And they **STILL** don't believe that their actions caused those problems.


... Excuse me if I sound bitter....I taste that way too
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Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph
Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not. What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two,

Even if that legislation didn't pass, it served as an experiment to determine how far insane leftists will go to back up the "woman's right to choose" argument. Apparently, they will go pretty far indeed. Way too far.

those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed

The media is evil, and they thought that people would get more emotional about the blackface/kkk stuff than they would over the post-birth abortions. I think they were wrong because I don't even live in Virginia and I'm still repulsed - years later.

dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show
that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts so

I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when I was a kid. Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein. There was nothing racial about it, and nobody complained. I wonder how people would take it if I did that now, as an adult? lol

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You and me didn't ask for those things, but the lefties did. We warne them about the border, and the Obama/Biden administration should have served as a warning about Ukraine, but they did what their television told them to do.

And they **STILL** don't believe that their actions caused those
problems.

Right. Next time I hear someone whining about Ukraine, I'm going to ask them if they voted for the guy who let Russia take Crimea.

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Sometimes the laws that we desire correspond with religion. In Christianity, "Thou shall not kill" is synonymous with "Murder in the 1st degree." And many people will argue that abortion is synonymous with 1st degree murder.

Most Atheists know that murder is wrong. My recollection is that I knew murder was wrong before learning my Ten Commandments. Only sociopaths and other sick people don't understand that.

I also find it really odd that many of the religions that believe that "abortion (even before viability) is murder" are also the same ones that will tell the grieving parents of a miscarried or stillborn baby "because your kid didn't live to be christened, its soul will forever be separated from the Lord."

It would be more sensible, and much more compassionate, to just admit that baby wasn't born alive and/or viable so they are not condemned to an eternal life of torment. That would mean admitting that maybe life doesn't begin at conception, which would ruin all their fun.

Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in Virginia?

Virginia *never* had such a law, nor did they ever have one being considered. Infanticide is, and has been, illegal in all 50 states. That Virginia had such a law even being considered is a falsehood put forth by anti-abortion activists.

Their governor also never suggested such a law. During the interview in question, he explained what happens when a baby is born that is not viable -- medical staff makes it comfortable and *resuscitates* (you cannot resuscitate something that is *alive*) and then the parents and doctors would need to decide what happens next.

You do realize that is how nonviable births are handled pretty much everywhere there is modern medical care involved, right???

The bill in question would have allowed late term abortions, with the consent of the mother and more than one physician, when it is determined that the baby won't be viable or that a live birth puts the mother's life at risk. It would have only allowed these procedures in circumstances of complications and not "on demand."

It would not have allowed a woman in labor, or her doctor, to terminate her pregnancy.

So, no, there is not, and was not, a pro-infanticide bill being considered in Virginia. No states currently have any laws allowing abortion/infanticide during or after labor begins.

There will be times when the majority will want the same thing that Christians want (I think it happens quite often.)

On things that everyone knows are wrong, regardless of religion, I would agree. On things like aborting non-viable fetuses; not allowing abortions in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the mother; now allowing IVF; allowing taxpayer funded adoption agencies to reject adoption requests based on religious beliefs... no I don't think that is the case.

$$
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Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not

Tran did misanswer a question, before later realizing that her fellow legislator was describing infanticide. The Governor was describing what happens in any case where a birth occurs and the infant is not viable.
They often require resuscitation (meaning they have already died), and pallative care (keeping them comfortable) is standard procedure until the parents and doctors discuss whether or not to let nature take its course (continue pallative care until natural death) or to make some sort of
valliant effort to save the nonviable child, which will usually only
prolong matters until eventual death.

The bill in question was one which would have allowed late-term abortions
in cases of fetal nonviability or danger to the mother. Despite Tran's statement to the contrary, it would not have allowed killing the child once labor had started. Tran later corrected herself and properly pointed out
that this would be infanticide and is illegal in Virginia (and all other 49 states).

What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation?

"Needing resuscitation" = dead. Keeping it comfortable was in reference to
the time between resuscitation and when the doctors and parents decide what
is next... pallative care or making some last-ditch effort to try to keep the non-viable baby alive.

Then his Lt Gov was accused of rape, and the attorney general, for some reason
came out and admitted he had dressed in blackface before. On top of that, Gov
Northam admitted to that too, dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and
even offered to show that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts somehow. Not to take it OT too far.

That was a really odd time for Virginia's top politicians.


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Aaron Thomas wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Similarly, the left has created laws that correspond with sacrilege. Example: Virginia Democrats passed legislation that allows (or allowed) doctors to murder newborns (post-birth abortions.) Does that solve the problem of conservatives embroiling the law with Christianity in
Virginia?

Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not.
What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two, those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed someone the wrong way. It ended up overshadowing the whole post-birth abortion blunder. Then his Lt Gov was accused of rape, and the attorney general, for some reason, came out and admitted he had dressed in blackface before. On top of that, Gov Northam admitted to that too, dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts somehow. Not to take it OT too far.

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Aaron Thomas wrote to Ted T <=-

@TZ: fe98

Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that legislation actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph
Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or not. What blew my mind was, how can anything be kept comfortable while it's in a state of needing resuscitation? But after those remarks, maybe within a day or two,

Even if that legislation didn't pass, it served as an experiment to determine how far insane leftists will go to back up the "woman's right
to choose" argument. Apparently, they will go pretty far indeed. Way
too far.

Agreed.

those pictures of him in KKK outfits and his nickname "coon man" in both VMI year books and medical school yearbooks came out...so it rubbed

The media is evil, and they thought that people would get more
emotional about the blackface/kkk stuff than they would over the post-birth abortions. I think they were wrong because I don't even live
in Virginia and I'm still repulsed - years later.

Everything is put out to get a response. I don't even know who put it all out there. There were all sorts of rumors.

dressing up like Michael Jackson at a party, and even offered to show
that he could moonwalk. ...ah, good times. All 3 finished their posts so

I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when I was a kid. Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein. There was nothing
racial about it, and nobody complained. I wonder how people would take
it if I did that now, as an adult? lol

I can only speak for myself. It didn't offend me. At the time, none of it was really that controversial. People have been trained well to react like they're offended. But it's sad these days even if you mean no actual harm, that you need to really apply a filter to yourself before you speak or do.

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Mike Powell wrote to TED T <=-

@TZ: fed4

Just want to toss out there, as bad as it was, I don't think that

legislation

actually passed. It had really bad optics, including Kathy Tran trying to answer for her bill, embarassingly, and Gov Ralph Northam's really bad radio interview describing a post-birth arbortion, "the baby will be kept comfortable" and "a discussion will ensue" regarding whether to kill it or

not

Tran did misanswer a question, before later realizing that her fellow legislator was describing infanticide. The Governor was describing
what happens in any case where a birth occurs and the infant is not viable. They often require resuscitation (meaning they have already
died), and pallative care (keeping them comfortable) is standard
procedure until the parents and doctors discuss whether or not to let nature take its course (continue pallative care until natural death) or
to make some sort of valliant effort to save the nonviable child, which will usually only prolong matters until eventual death.

The bill in question was one which would have allowed late-term
abortions in cases of fetal nonviability or danger to the mother.
Despite Tran's statement to the contrary, it would not have allowed killing the child once labor had started. Tran later corrected herself and properly pointed out that this would be infanticide and is illegal
in Virginia (and all other 49 states).

Thanks for clarifying that. That's correct. It was easily blown out of proportion, as would be expected. Both Tran and Northam sounded awful and provided plenty of sound bytes because of this. In my opinion, Northam did a lot of damage trying to clarify. What normally worked for him, his folksy, country, happy charm just didn't sound right talking about this. Second of all, the way you explain it and the way he explains it...his way leaves a lot more to the imagination and he should have known better and chosen words more like yours. I think he was trying to sound compassionate, but fumbled the ball. On top of it, he's a doctor; talking like a doctor in this case, instead of trying to coddle the question would have provided little to pick at.


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Thanks for clarifying that. That's correct. It was easily blown out of proportion, as would be expected. Both Tran and Northam sounded awful and provided plenty of sound bytes because of this. In my opinion, Northam did a lot of damage trying to clarify. What normally worked for him, his folksy, country, happy charm just didn't sound right talking about this.

In past, the "folksy" talk of Kentucky governors has not gone over well on
the national stage, either, so I am familiar with that.

Second of
all, the way you explain it and the way he explains it...his way leaves a lot more to the imagination and he should have known better and chosen words more like yours. I think he was trying to sound compassionate, but fumbled the ball. On top of it, he's a doctor; talking like a doctor in this case, instea
of trying to coddle the question would have provided little to pick at.

Politicians who are trying to keep both sides of a debate happy try to go
down the middle of the road and, as you point out, wind up fumbling to both sides. Also, when I got to explain it, I get to sit behind a keyboard and
can also look stuff up before I type it. I can also read it multiple times before hitting send. Unless I was reading a teleprompter, I would
probably fumble it up pretty bad "live," too! :D


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But it's sad these days even if you mean no actual harm, that you
need to really apply a filter to yourself before you speak or do.

It most certainly is sad. ;(


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Hello Aaron,

I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when I was
a kid.

Michael Jackson is dead.

Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein.

Saddam Hussein is dead.

There was nothing racial about it, and nobody complained.

Why would anybody complain about two dead guys?

I wonder how people would take it if I did that now, as an adult?

With deepest respects.

lol

I have seen a dead man walking. But a dead man laughing?
Blacula, inside or outside a coffin, that would be truly scary!

For Life,
Lee

--
The first thing a cult does is claim that everyone else is lying to you.

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I'm a white guy and I was Michael Jackson for Halloween one year when was
a kid.

Michael Jackson is dead.

Another year I went as Sadaam Hussein.

Saddam Hussein is dead.

There was nothing racial about it, and nobody complained.

Why would anybody complain about two dead guys?

They were both alive when I did it.

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