Mine arrived today. It is much cheaper than the Developer Connection programme was at the Enterprise level.

The presentation of the CD's is much nicer, with a leather [or vinyl leatherette?] case to hold the dozens of CD's. However, the Developer's Toolbox
seems to contain all the same stuff as the Developer Connection did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 4.0 (with CSD4) and 4.5; more varieties of DB2 than you ever thought existed; Java; the Red Books and other documentation, much of it antique; more f***ing Java.

Since most of the DB2 tools are written in Java, perhaps they should have named
it the Java Connection. ... ;-)

By the time I have installed it all, using Netscape, the next edition will be out.

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>

--- FleetStreet 1.25.1
* Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

*** Quoting David Noon to All dated 10-06-00 ***

Toolbox seems to contain all the same stuff as the Developer Connection
did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 4.0

David,

It has the actual WSeB server??
Do you know if its the full version, or limited use??

TIA
Rich
I-Net turtil@frontiernet.net


... I won't use Windows, I won't use Windows, I won't....
---
* Origin: Turtil's Pond BBS. Monroe NY 914-783 2106 (1:2625/50)

Rich Wonneberger wrote to David Noon on 10/07/2000
I saw it on 10-07-2000!

*** Quoting David Noon to All dated 10-06-00 ***

Toolbox seems to contain all the same stuff as the Developer Connection did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 4.0

David,

It has the actual WSeB server??
Do you know if its the full version, or limited use??

Rich, it's the full version of WSeB including the HPFS386 add-on and
the bootable install CD - 7 CDROMS - which is one more than the WSeB
product since the HPFS386 is an extra cost ($600 !!!) option unless you
have Warp Server Advanced so that you can upgrade ypur existing HPFS386
license (for $5 ).

I haven't checked on the Enterprise pricing yet since I get it through
the PartnerWorld program, but I figure that with 80 CDROMs I barely get
through a survey of the TOC before the next refresh arrives <g>. With
all the changes, I guess I'd better see where that all stands.

Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
* Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)

Moin Rich!

07.10.2000, Rich Wonneberger wrote a message to David Noon:

Toolbox seems to contain all the same stuff as the Developer Connection
did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 4.0

It has the actual WSeB server??
Do you know if its the full version, or limited use??

I did an install on a 486DX-50 somewhere around the first of semptember and it still is running (well, crawling :-). I don't think it is limited in any way.

Bye,
Vitus

---
* Origin: Geistiger Horizont: Abstand zw. Kopf und Brett. (2:2474/424.1)

Moin David!

06.10.2000, David Noon wrote a message to All:

Mine arrived today. It is much cheaper than the Developer Connection programme was at the Enterprise level.

The presentation of the CD's is much nicer, with a leather [or vinyl leatherette?] case to hold the dozens of CD's.

Huh, a new case and a complete set of CDs? I've just got the magazine (subscription was DevCon Advanced and is now xxxx).

However, the
Developer's Toolbox seems to contain all the same stuff as the
Developer Connection did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 4.0 (with CSD4) and 4.5; more varieties of DB2
than you ever thought existed; Java; the Red Books and other documentation, much of it antique; more f***ing Java.

...

By the time I have installed it all, using Netscape, the next edition
will be out.

They do an installation on hard disk? Great. I hated to search first for the CD with the master cataloge (they do not always had a writing on it...), open the cataloge with Netscape, search an interesting item/product/documentation, search the CD with the item, open a commandline to install the product, goto start.
Not to mention that my machine locked up two or more times in the process when I tried to use the Java cataloge.
Thank you IBM for the wonderfull DevCon 2. I can't think of a way to make the thing more useless.

And you say the Developer Toolbox is much better now? I'm looking forward to receive the CDs...

Bye,
Vitus

---
* Origin: Found god? If not claimed in 30 days he's yours. (2:2474/424.1)

(Excerpts from a message dated 10-06-00, David Noon to All)

Hi David--

Mine arrived today. It is much cheaper than the Developer

>Connection programme was at the Enterprise level.

The presentation of the CD's is much nicer, with a leather [or vinyl

> leatherette?] case to hold the dozens of CD's. However, the
>Developer's Toolbox seems to contain all the same stuff as the
>Developer Connection did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2
>Developer's Toolkit 4.0 (with CSD4) and 4.5; more varieties of DB2
>than you ever thought existed; Java; the Red Books and other
>documentation, much of it antique; more f***ing Java.

Mine arrived last month some time. The fancy binder is too big to
fit on my desk, so it lives on the floor next to my desk. As far as I
can tell, there is nothing in it that interests me that wasn't in the
last version of DevCon (I don't have the "Premier/Enterprise" stuff), as
I am not involved in "eBusiness" and don't intend to install the newer
OS/2 FixPaks :-). So I didn't install any of it.

My subscription dies in December. I don't think I will renew, even
at the lower price, since my "developer" interest is limited to text
mode utilities under OS/2. But, I suppose that if you are interested in developing Windows applications for the Web, the new "Developer's
Toolbox" is a great buy :-(.

Regards,

--Murray
<Team PL/I>
___
* MR/2 2.30 #120 * If it ain't broke, don't FixPak it.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000)

Hi Vitus,

Replying to a message of Vitus Jensen to David Noon:

06.10.2000, David Noon wrote a message to All:

Mine arrived today. It is much cheaper than the Developer Connection
programme was at the Enterprise level.

The presentation of the CD's is much nicer, with a leather [or vinyl
leatherette?] case to hold the dozens of CD's.

Huh, a new case and a complete set of CDs? I've just got the magazine (subscription was DevCon Advanced and is now xxxx).

I received a stack of CD's and the case, as well as the magazine.

I was also on Dev Con Advanced, but renewed at the Enterprise level. However, the subscription for Dev Toolbox was only UKP135, whereas Dev Con Enterprise was UKP731. [Prices exclude VAT.] It is not really that much better, but it is much cheaper.

By the time I have installed it all, using Netscape, the next edition
will be out.

They do an installation on hard disk? Great.

The catalogue does not install onto a hard disk, unlike the original, pre-Netscape Dev Con. There is a hard-copy catalogue inside the vinyl/leather case, though.

I hated to search first
for the CD with the master cataloge (they do not always had a writing
on it...), open the cataloge with Netscape, search an interesting item/product/documentation, search the CD with the item, open a commandline to install the product, goto start.

I have a Nakamichi CD-changer installed in this box, so I can have 5 CD's on-line simultaneously.

Not to mention that my machine locked up two or more times in
the process when I tried to use the Java cataloge. Thank you IBM for
the wonderfull DevCon 2. I can't think of a way to make the
thing more useless.

Well, the Web was the word when Dev Con 2 was formulated. You had to look at it
from the product manager's point of view: anything that didn't require a bloated browser was legacy technology.

And you say the Developer Toolbox is much better now?

I guess it's "better" in a Microsoft way: it looks nicer, but the contents are still much the same.

I'm looking forward to receive the CDs...

Well, there are plenty of them. They even include a mainframe [see origin line]
version of DB2 V6.1, just like I use at work.

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>

--- FleetStreet 1.25.1
* Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Hi Rich,

Replying to a message of Rich Wonneberger to David Noon:

*** Quoting David Noon to All dated 10-06-00 ***

Toolbox seems to contain all the same stuff as the Developer Connection
did: copies of Warp 4 and WSeB; Java; OS/2 Developer's Toolkit 4.0

It has the actual WSeB server??
Do you know if its the full version, or limited use??

As Will has confirmed, it is the whole enchilada, including HPFS386. The IBM products are shipped as a single, perpetual licence for each subscription. Thus, I can have a single WSeB server forever using this software.

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>

--- FleetStreet 1.25.1
* Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Hallo David!

+ Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Speaking of legacy technology, your computer then is legacy technology too. ;-). If you want to be current, this must be an IBM z900 now. Well - the z900 is also new in the Microsoftish way: New cover, but the same (well, enhanced of
course) thing underneath.

I wonder what stupid guy thought up this senseless product rebranding. There was enough trouble in beating into the customers' heads what a S/390 is, and once they understood and embraced the term (e.g. gcc and Linux calls the architecture s390-ibm now), is is renamed. Brilliant! Or take the AS/400 - it's
name stands for reliability in middleware issues for a broad range of customers
- then why change the winning team/name? And if the name is changed, why must there again be a meaningless leter with a meaningless number? Could one not at least have thought of a meaningful name? Aaargh!

You don't really have a S/390, and be it only a P/390 board, do you? I'm still looking if there is an easy way for an interested Hobbieist to get an account on such a machine via TCP/IP (with VM/CMS, MVS or VSE, in this order of preference). From time to time I do mainframe-related work for IBM (e.g. during semester holidays), but when I do not work there, I can't access the machines, so every year when I get back I have forgotten so much - I'd really like to have a way to keep my knowledge fresh also during the rest of the year.
:-)

Viele Grüße,
Tobias

--- Msged/UNX TE 06 (pre)
* Origin: Running FreeBSD 3.5-STABLE (2:2476/418)

David Noon wrote to Rich Wonneberger on 10/09/2000
I saw it on 10-10-2000!

As Will has confirmed, it is the whole enchilada, including
HPFS386. The IBM products are shipped as a single, perpetual
licence for each subscription. Thus, I can have a single WSeB
server forever using this software.

I missed that - where did you find it? Last time I bothered to read
the license it was still limited to the next release or 18 months
(something like that). Not that I set a timer...

I thought the off-colored CD for the one with the index was a nice
touch, BTW.

Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
--- Maximus/2 2.02
* Origin: OS/2 Shareware BBS, telnet://bbs.os2bbs.com (1:109/347)

Hi Murray,

Replying to a message of Murray Lesser to David Noon:

Mine arrived last month some time. The fancy binder is too big to
fit on my desk, so it lives on the floor next to my desk.

Likewise, although that's as much due to existing clutter on my desk as the size of the binder.

[snip]

My subscription dies in December. I don't think I will renew,
even at the lower price, since my "developer" interest is limited to
text mode utilities under OS/2. But, I suppose that if you are
interested in developing Windows applications for the Web, the new "Developer's Toolbox" is a great buy :-(.

The targets for the "new" product are:
1. Web developers, preferably Java and XML centred.
2. Corporate database (i.e. DB2) developers, preferably using Java as the host language.

Best of all would be doing both: preparing XML Web pages with Java servlets accessing DB2 databases. This seems to be IBM's vision of all future computing.
At least for now.

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>

--- FleetStreet 1.25.1
* Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Hi Will,

Replying to a message of Will Honea to David Noon:

As Will has confirmed, it is the whole enchilada, including
HPFS386. The IBM products are shipped as a single, perpetual
licence for each subscription. Thus, I can have a single WSeB
server forever using this software.

I missed that - where did you find it?

The licensing arrangements vary from product to product. The IBM products are all perpetual licences unless they are stipulated otherwise, as near as I can tell.

Last time I bothered to read
the license it was still limited to the next release or 18 months (something like that).

Those were the conditions for volume 1 of Dev Con. They changed them for IBM products in Dev Con 2, as per my paragraph above; the rules for OEM products were always product-specific.

Occasionally there would arrive a delivery in which an OEM product had been deleted, and these stipulated that any existing installation of that product should be deleted. But I have not seen that for any IBM products [not that I installed absolutely all of them].

Not that I set a timer...

The time-limited products usually have a timer in them.

I thought the off-colored CD for the one with the index was a nice
touch, BTW.

Beats having to be able to read the thing's label. ... :-)

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>

--- FleetStreet 1.25.1
* Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Hi Tobias,

Replying to a message of Tobias Ernst to David Noon:

+ Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Speaking of legacy technology, your computer then is legacy technology too. ;-). If you want to be current, this must be an IBM z900 now.

We are still running an IBM 9672 box. The z900 upgrade will likely be next year.

Well - the z900 is also new in the Microsoftish way: New cover, but
the same (well, enhanced of course) thing underneath.

Soon to be 64-bit.

I wonder what stupid guy thought up this senseless product rebranding.

An abject moron, I'm afraid. That is, I suppose, a working definition of a product manager in most R&D companies.

There was enough trouble in beating into the customers' heads what a
S/390 is, and once they understood and embraced the term (e.g. gcc
and Linux calls the architecture s390-ibm now), is is renamed.
Brilliant!

Several years of marketing hard work down the tubes. The heritage went:
S/360
S/370
370/XA
ESA/370
ESA/390
S/390

As you can see, there have been digressions in the past from a consistent naming convention. Indeed, consistent trains of thought are actively discouraged in marketing. It is called "thinking outside the box".

For my sins, I have programmed all of the above architectures as they evolved.

Or take the AS/400

I'd rather not.

- it's name stands for reliability in
middleware issues for a broad range of customers - then why change
the winning team/name? And if the name is changed, why must there
again be a meaningless leter with a meaningless number? Could one not
at least have thought of a meaningful name? Aaargh!

You don't really have a S/390, and be it only a P/390 board, do you?

It's a large, black box in central London.

I'm still looking if there is an easy way for an interested Hobbieist
to get an account on such a machine via TCP/IP (with VM/CMS, MVS or
VSE, in this order of preference).

I work for a Swiss bank. There is no way they would let a hobbyist loose on the
big machine (or any other, for that matter).

From time to time I do
mainframe-related work for IBM (e.g. during semester holidays), but
when I do not work there, I can't access the machines, so every year
when I get back I have forgotten so much - I'd really like to have a
way to keep my knowledge fresh also during the rest of the year. :-)

You could try getting a job in the real world. ... :-)

We offer long hours, low pay compared to your manager, and potential redundancy
when fashions change in technology.

Anyhow, the discussion of mainframes is largely off-topic, unless you want to discuss programming the OS/2 box that controls the hardware configuration. Since that never happens outside the IBM labs., it is a most unlikely topic.

Regards

Dave
<Team PL/I>

--- FleetStreet 1.25.1
* Origin: My other computer is an IBM S/390 (2:257/609.5)

Moin David!

09.10.2000, David Noon wrote a message to Vitus Jensen:

Mine arrived today. It is much cheaper than the Developer Connection
programme was at the Enterprise level.

The presentation of the CD's is much nicer, with a leather [or vinyl
leatherette?] case to hold the dozens of CD's.

Huh, a new case and a complete set of CDs? I've just got the
magazine (subscription was DevCon Advanced and is now xxxx).

I received a stack of CD's and the case, as well as the magazine.

One cannot expect to get something in germany as soon as it is available in the
UK. But I've got my toolbox in the meantime.

I was also on Dev Con Advanced, but renewed at the Enterprise level. However, the subscription for Dev Toolbox was only UKP135, whereas
Dev Con Enterprise was UKP731. [Prices exclude VAT.] It is not really
that much better, but it is much cheaper.

I think our old subscription will last some month till and as the new modus is cheaper it will last even longer (but I read nothing about the effects of the conversion).

By the time I have installed it all, using Netscape, the next
edition will be out.

They do an installation on hard disk? Great.

The catalogue does not install onto a hard disk, unlike the original, pre-Netscape Dev Con. There is a hard-copy catalogue inside the vinyl/leather case, though.

So it's the same as before. Doesn't cheer me up.


...

I'm looking forward to receive the CDs...

Well, there are plenty of them. They even include a mainframe [see
origin line] version of DB2 V6.1, just like I use at work.

If I had to say the thruth: the CDs are really worthless to me/us: I'm doing microcontroller stuff at work (under OS/2). So it just matters if some great tool for OS/2 appears on the Toolkox (or maybe a fixpak). As this will never happen it wouldn't matter if I throw them out of the window. The developers working on PC software are all using MS products and would never touch IBM's.

You are happy that there is software for your system on the CDs. But wait until MS ships an OS for the S/390, IBM will happily convert to an all-consultant-firm.

Bye,
Vitus

---
* Origin: But why spend $2000.00 just to run Windows? (2:2474/424.1)

Hello David!

12 Oct 00 20:57, David Noon wrote to Tobias Ernst:

Or take the AS/400

I'd rather not.

:-)

You could try getting a job in the real world. ... :-)
We offer long hours, low pay compared to your manager, and potential redundancy when fashions change in technology.

David ! All those years ! We work for the same company and I didn't notice !

Anyhow, the discussion of mainframes is largely off-topic, unless you
want to discuss programming the OS/2 box that controls the hardware configuration.

yes, but many of us work not only with OS/2, but also unices and even mainframes. I do some maintenance on a OS/390. I could have sworn I was the last alive on earth to do so. The machine should have been decommissioned several years ago, but it just keeps on going. This contract ends on 31st dec. this year. I'm not dying to have it renewed yet again. After debugging JCLs on the amdahl, even "ed" looks user-friendly :-)

-= Francois =-
Francois(at)telematique(dot)org
http://www.telematique.org/ft

"Let me tell you the whole story. It'll take a little time." -- Slartibartfast

--- FMailX 1.48b
* Origin: Xara Sto Pragma ! Gasperich - Luxembourg -> (FidoNet 2:270/25.2)

(Excerpts from a message dated 10-12-00, David Noon to Will Honea)

Hi David--

The licensing arrangements vary from product to product. The IBM

>products are all perpetual licences unless they are stipulated
>otherwise, as near as I can tell.

Last time I bothered to read
the license it was still limited to the next release or 18 months (something like that).

Those were the conditions for volume 1 of Dev Con. They changed

>them for IBM products in Dev Con 2, as per my paragraph above; the
>rules for OEM products were always product-specific.

If you will remember, there once was a version of WebEx on a DevCon
CD that was Java-enabled (I don't remember when that was, and I'm too
lazy to go back through my drawer full of old DevCon CDs to find it).
The next issue of DevCon stated that the license for it had been revoked
and the product should be deleted. No reason given, but I assumed that
another Java security bug had been discovered, and it was easier to
remove the product than to fix it.

The time-limited products usually have a timer in them.

The time-limited IBM products carry a date in one of the DLLs that
make the product inoperable after that date. (I've forgotten which DLL
it was for the PL/I "evaluation" compiler, but it was used both by the
compiler itself and by any application built with that compiler, so that
all applications built with that compiler "timed out" at the same time
as did the compiler.) The last few versions of the PL/I compiler
shipped in DevCon had "timed out" long before the CDs arrived :-(.

Regards,

--Murray
<Team PL/I>
___
* MR/2 2.30 #120 * The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: COMM Port OS/2 juge.com 204.89.247.1 (281) 980-9671 (1:106/2000)