Has anyone tried running the DOS version of Maximus, Squish, BNU and door games
inside of dosemu or dosbox? I'm thinking this might be an alternative to Max for linux which doesn't currently support DOS door, if you want to run your Max
bbs in linux. Somehow inbound telnet connections would have to look like a modem on COMx for the BBS, and multi-node might not be possible? Just a thought...

I was thinking about possibly using Synchronet, but don't know much about it. I love the addon programs I use for Maximus such as MaxAll for stats and StarArea for choosing message/file areas. I'm not sure if I could get a Synchronet BBS looking as good as my Maximus one does now. However if it was pretty darn close, ran on Linux or Solaris with DOS door support then it might be worth it?

I wish I knew C so that I could help add dosemu support to Maximus... I would help if I could!

Thanks,
Ryan

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Sat 2007-04-28 15:46, Ryan de Laplante (1:229/1394) wrote to All:

Has anyone tried running the DOS version of Maximus, Squish, BNU
and door games inside of dosemu or dosbox?

A few months ago I had a quick play with Telix running under DOSBox. From memory, it worked OK, but would drop characters occasionally, which caused Zmodem to fail. There were probably some configuration settings to fix that.

DOSBox can be set up so it can listen on a TCP port and redirect data to its virtual COM port. In dosbox.conf:

serial1=modem listenport:5000

If you can somehow get the Linux version of Maximus to make an outbound TCP connection, you could tell it to start DOSBox and run the DOS door game then connect to localhost on the port DOSBox is listening on.

Or you could just run the DOS version of Maximus under DOSBox, and put up with whatever limitations it has compared to the Linux version.

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Hello Ryan.

28 Apr 07 15:46, you wrote to all:

Has anyone tried running the DOS version of Maximus, Squish, BNU and
door games inside of dosemu or dosbox? I'm thinking this might be an alternative to Max for linux which doesn't currently support DOS door,
if you want to run your Max bbs in linux. Somehow inbound telnet connections would have to look like a modem on COMx for the BBS, and multi-node might not be possible? Just a thought...

I'm not sure if Dosemu can emulate telnet com ports, fossil drivers, etc.

I was thinking about possibly using Synchronet, but don't know much
about it. I love the addon programs I use for Maximus such as MaxAll
for stats and StarArea for choosing message/file areas. I'm not sure
if I could get a Synchronet BBS looking as good as my Maximus one does now. However if it was pretty darn close, ran on Linux or Solaris with
DOS door support then it might be worth it?

I was a Max SysOp many moons ago, and loved the freedom to customize.

I have run Synchronet Win/32 and it's extremely configurable, plus has an STMP email server, news server, telnet server and web interface.... and it all costs
-0-. Plus the support is free and always available in the many Sync related echoes. The author, Rob Swindell, will respond to questions in 24 hrs, but of course, requires everyone to consult the docs and try before asking.

You might give it a quick try. It runs right out of the box.

I wish I knew C so that I could help add dosemu support to Maximus...
I would help if I could!

I have a "C+ for Dummies" book. It can get you started if you have the time. Not enough time here. (-8

Best of luck,

-=[Joe]=-

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20061116
* Origin: -= Fire on the Bayou =- (1:3828/12)

DOSBox can be set up so it can listen on a TCP port and
redirect data to its virtual COM port. In dosbox.conf:

serial1=modem listenport:5000

Very cool. I could probably get at least one node running using this kind of set up. I would install everything related to the BBS inside of dosbox, except
maybe binkd.

If you can somehow get the Linux version of Maximus to
make an outbound TCP connection, you could tell it to
start DOSBox and run the DOS door game then connect to
localhost on the port DOSBox is listening on.

That would have to be done by the Maximus programmers. I don't know C

Or you could just run the DOS version of Maximus under
DOSBox, and put up with whatever limitations it has
compared to the Linux version.

I might give this a try sometime. Tonight I moved the BBS off my old PII450 onto a newer P4 1.5 GHz Windows XP machine which I haven't used much in the last few months. I found the BBS was sometimes very sluggish to start when you
first connected on the old machine. The problem I'm having now is the TP7P5FIX.COM TSR designed to fix the Runtime Error 200 in pascal programs doesn't work on my faster computer. It was designed for slower PII computers and works great on them... So it seems that I might have to give up my pascal doors such as Planets TEOS :( That _really_ sucks. I'd probably have the same problem in dosbox and dosemu.


Thanks,
Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

I was a Max SysOp many moons ago, and loved the freedom to customize.
I have run Synchronet Win/32 and it's extremely
configurable, plus has an STMP email server, news
server, telnet server and web interface.... and it all
costs -0-. Plus the support is free and always
available in the many Sync related echoes. The author,
Rob Swindell, will respond to questions in 24 hrs, but
of course, requires everyone to consult the docs and
try before asking.

You might give it a quick try. It runs right out of the box.

Sounds nice, I might give it a try someday. I don't like the default file area chooser and message area chooser. I wonder if there's a nice one that can be added like StarBar/StarArea for Maximus? I'm having a had time breaking away from Maximus but if Syncrhonet can be customized to look almost like my current
bbs and run DOS doors then I might switch over.

I have a "C+ for Dummies" book. It can get you started
if you have the time.
Not enough time here. (-8

Yeah, same here. I'm constantly reading books to stay up to date for work, and don't have the time to learn a new (to me) programming language just yet.

I didn't know there was a C+? I thought there was just C and C++.


Thanks,
Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

problem I'm having now is the TP7P5FIX.COM TSR
designed to fix the Runtime Error 200 in pascal
programs doesn't work on my faster computer. It was
designed for slower PII computers and works great on
them... So it seems that I might have to give up my
pascal doors such as Planets TEOS :( That _really_
sucks. I'd probably have the same problem in dosbox and dosemu.

I found a fix. I run a program called slowdown.com (a TSR) before executing the door, then unload it when the door exits. The program slows down the DOS window (hopefully not the whole computer) to whatever speed you tell it. Normally you should be able to use parameters such as /M:50 to be equivalent to
a 50MHz 486 but the doors don't seem to work unless I use /A, which is 5MHz 286. At least they now run :)


Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

them... So it seems that I might have to give up my
pascal doors such as Planets TEOS :( That _really_

Replace it with Arrowbridge I & II.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

of course, requires everyone to consult the docs and
try before asking.

You might give it a quick try. It runs right out of the box.

Sounds nice, I might give it a try someday. I don't
like the default file area chooser and message area
chooser. I wonder if there's a nice one that can be

Well its got ssjs which is right up your alley.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

I was a Max SysOp many moons ago, and loved the
freedom to customize.
I have run Synchronet Win/32 and it's extremely
configurable, plus has an STMP email server, news
server, telnet server and web interface.... and it all
costs -0-. Plus the support is free and always
available in the many Sync related echoes. The author,
Rob Swindell, will respond to questions in 24 hrs, but
of course, requires everyone to consult the docs and
try before asking.

Rob Swindell's alright. I get the feeling he doesn't like me very much. :)

As of v3.14, there're a couple of things I don't like about Synchronet.

Mainly its message reading functionality. Thus far this is my critique,

* When quoting replies lines are prefixed with ">" which eventually truncates the quoted line, which means each reply truncates more of the original message text.

* It lacks some of the user-customisable message searching functions that Maximus has eg. Browse Msg -> All areas -> List messages (instead of Read messages) etc.

* As of v3.14 it only has 2 options when scanning messages: 1) list message titles, or 2) display messages -- which effectively reads the message and updates the message pointer, and I might prefer pointers unmodified since I can
refer to those messages later ie. after a scan.

* When listing message titles it clutters the screen with all the subgroups.

* When listing message titles it also lists -OLD- / read messages which clutters the screen even more.

* Where's the 'read original' message option ? I only saw some sorting by thread / author options ...

* Currently a plugin is required for new-message-received notifications. And these notifications are displayed and then deleted during the logon process so the user can't review those new message notifications later eg. subsequent logons, which is quite inconvenient.

* I don't like the board/sub-board (RA-style group/subgroup) file/message area categorising method. Traversing the Maximus Usenet style divisions are a more logical/relational/intuitive breakdown of message groups & areas. (imo). And the heirarchies can be embedded deep.

Interestingly the author said he had never encountered such feature requests, which bewildered me, and led me to believe that the majority of Synchronet users are more caught up in its internet 'spectacularisms' than messaging.

But anyway, due to a revival of interest from the author on his dwindled project; it took off. What makes Synchronet worthwhile, apart from its internet
capabilities and multiplatform support, is the active and enthusiastic development community; which is how new features and bug fixes get rapidly tested and implemented.

Anything can be made "highly customisable" if you have source code.

But Scott Dudley disappared off the face of the earth. I don't blame him.
So now there's only a half-arsed intermittently commited ragtag user group left.

Hypothetically if I contracted dozens of dedicated Chinese/Indian/Russian students AUD$5k pa to develop Maximus it would easily be better than Synchronet. Money is a powerful catalyst.

Oh well. Maybe one day :)

"I'm a die-hard Maximus fan and I ain't switch'n, ever." -- received quite a lot of flagrant replies in the (imo reproachable (at the time)) Synchronet Discussion echo in contrast to the humble mild mannered MUFFIN echo seemingly full of UN embassadors like Ryan de Laplante ...

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

Hello Mvan.

29 Apr 07 03:11, you wrote to me:

"I'm a die-hard Maximus fan and I ain't switch'n, ever." -- received
quite a lot of flagrant replies in the (imo reproachable (at the
time)) Synchronet Discussion echo in contrast to the humble mild
mannered MUFFIN echo seemingly full of UN embassadors like Ryan de Laplante ...

Yeah, when we go to the zoo, we shouldn't get in the Lion's cage. Did you let Rob know your findings from testing? I think if you wrote to him directly on Vetauren BBS, you'd be treated better.

I don't like the Fidonet set-up in Synchronet. I have never consisently had it working. The QWK networking works very well though. Unfortunately that's not where the fun is.

I'm not active as a BBS SysOp right now, but if someone does port Max to Linux,
I would strip it down and use it for a local mail reader along with Squish and IREX.

There's no hurry, though. (-:

Good luck!

-=[Joe]=-

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20061116
* Origin: -= Fire on the Bayou =- (1:3828/12)

As of v3.14, there're a couple of things I don't like about Synchronet.

Mainly its message reading functionality. Thus far this is my critique,

Yes I agree, I don't particularly like it either.

Oh well. Maybe one day :)
"I'm a die-hard Maximus fan and I ain't switch'n,
ever." -- received quite a lot of flagrant replies in
the (imo reproachable (at the time)) Synchronet
Discussion echo in contrast to the humble mild mannered
MUFFIN echo seemingly full of UN embassadors like Ryan
de Laplante ...

Thanks. You know back in the 90's when everyone was telling me I should be using Telegard, PC Board, or whatever.. I never switched. I was the only Maximus BBS in our county for a long time and spread the word. A few people tried it but it was too hard for them. In 2003 when I broguht my bbs back to life I insisted on keeping it Maximus, or not opening it again. I gave the new
Linux maximus a try but it wasn't usable so I waited it out.... for 4 YEARS. Read the MUFFIN archives, you'll see my posts have always asked about supporting DOS doors. How much longer am I supposed to wait to get Maximus running in Linux with DOS doors? As you have seen I have explorered alternatives such as running the entire Maximus system inside of dosbox or dosemu. I don't want to switch, but I'm not waiting another 4 years. I think you even told me not to use the linux version recently because it's not quite ready. I've been using Maximus since 1993, I think that's pretty dam die hard.



Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

The problem I'm having now is the TP7P5FIX.COM TSR designed to
fix the Runtime Error 200 in pascal programs doesn't
work on my faster computer. It was designed for slower PII
computers and works great on them...

i keep seeing you say the above but somehow it strikes me as not correct...

P5 <> PII

the problem is really multiple in nature... the patch must properly patch the bad code... many do not... another part of the multiplicity is that many programs are compressed and/or otherwise protected in such a manner that they cannot be patched or hex edited without a major amount of work...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

MvanL> * I don't like the board/sub-board (RA-style group/subgroup)
MvanL> file/message area categorising method.

what "RA-style group/subgroup" style? don't use it if you don't like it... RA didn't have it for a long time but it was one of the most requested functions asked for...

MvanL> Traversing the Maximus Usenet style divisions are a more
MvanL> logical/relational/intuitive breakdown of message groups &
MvanL> areas. (imo). And the heirarchies can be embedded deep.

hunh? "usenet style divisions"?? can't say that i've ever seen anything like that... matter of fact, i've found that it can be rather confusing... then again, there are times that i find RA's stuff to be confusing as well...

the biggest "problem" comes from folk who expect every board to be just like every other... that happens because they are not aware that the sysop has the freedom, with properly designed software, to make things look and act like they
want and not just get stuck with "skinning" capabilities...

[trim]

MvanL> But Scott Dudley disappared off the face of the earth. I don't
MvanL> blame him. So now there's only a half-arsed intermittently commited
MvanL> ragtag user group left.

apparently you don't have all the facts, either... bob jones is limited by a job contract in what he can do as far as developing and coding anything... the limitations of that contract are almost expired... until that expiration time passes, he felt that it was safer for the existing code to not be handled by himself so that it would not be misclassified and have that company he was contracted with trying to claim it for their own...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Mon 2007-04-30 08:53, Ryan de Laplante (1:229/1394) wrote to Mvan Le:

In 2003 when I broguht my bbs back to life I insisted on keeping
it Maximus, or not opening it again. I gave the new Linux
maximus a try but it wasn't usable so I waited it out.... for 4
YEARS. Read the MUFFIN archives, you'll see my posts have always
asked about supporting DOS doors. How much longer am I supposed
to wait to get Maximus running in Linux with DOS doors?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this is a poor attitude to take towards free software, especially open source stuff. We are all volunteers, so you can't just go around expecting people to make things work for you. If you're unable to pay someone to get something working, then you're pretty much stuck with trying to do it yourself, or not doing it, because there are very few (near zero) people left in FidoNet who have the time or inclination to write code for
BBS software - especially code that they will probably never use themselves.

I still think it's remarkable that the source code to Maximus and Squish was released at all, given the amount of work that went into it, to make it even possible for it to be ported to Linux.

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Sun 2007-04-29 03:11, Mvan Le (1:343/41) wrote to Joe Bruchis:

Anything can be made "highly customisable" if you have source code.

But Scott Dudley disappared off the face of the earth. I don't
blame him.
So now there's only a half-arsed intermittently commited ragtag
user group left.

Part of the problem with the Maximus/Squish code when it was released was that it no longer built properly on the operating systems it already ran on (DOS/OS2/Win32). I don't know if the situation has changed since then, but certainly the main driving factor behind Maximus development was to get it running on Linux, not add new features.

Hypothetically if I contracted dozens of dedicated
Chinese/Indian/Russian students AUD$5k pa to develop Maximus it
would easily be better than Synchronet. Money is a powerful
catalyst.

That sounds like a good advertisement for Synchronet.

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this is a poor attitude to take towards free software, especially open source stuff. We are
all volunteers, so you can't just go around expectin

I realize that, but Mvan Le was accusing me of being an UN evangalist for Maximus for talking about using Sycnrhonet. I was explaining how wrong that statement is, how loyal I have been to Maximus. I did not want to revive my BBS unless it was using Maximus and gave it a chance, for 4 years before CONSIDERING different software. I have been using Maximus loyally since 1993 and what Mvan said made me want him to understand my position. I don't want to
switch to Synchronet if I can get Maximus running with DOS doors in Linux or Solaris. I don't expect him or anyone to make the changes I'm asking for. But don't call me an UN evangelist for Maximus for thinking about using another program that might do what I want after giving Maximus a fair chance. I'm not a C programmer, and therefore cannot do the change myself.


Ryan

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this is a poor attitude
to take towards free software, especially open source stuff.
We are all volunteers, so you can't just go around expectin

I realize that, but Mvan Le was accusing me of being an UN
evangalist for Maximus for talking about using Sycnrhonet. I was

errrmmm... i didn't read it like that... was i misreading UN to mean "United Nations" instead of "negative"?? seemed to me that mvan's message was quite the
opposite??

i tend to agree with andrew on the attitude but i'm also stuck like you are in that i don't code in Cstuff and am also at the mercy of those who can who will also give willing of their time and experiance... coding isn't as easy as many folk think it is...

imagine trying to code instructions on how to walk... now just think about all the minute (minoot) details that one takes into account just trying to keep one's balance...

let's make it even easier... just imagine creating and maintaining a phonebook database... how many field of data are there? how do you store them? what about
sorting? recall? now, let's figure out how to display them on screen... we'll worry about printing them later...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

errrmmm... i didn't read it like that... was i
misreading UN to mean "United Nations" instead of
"negative"?? seemed to me that mvan's message was quite
the opposite??

Wow, I never thought of it like that. Since most of Mvan's comments about everything I say have been negative, I got the impression that this was an other negative jab. After all, I did discuss the possibility of switching to Syncrhonet in this echo. Anyway, it's in the past now.

i tend to agree with andrew on the attitude but i'm

I agree too. Earlier I had told Mvan that I truely appreciate his work on Maximus. This summer if time permits a guy from work and I plan to start a new
open source project in an area where there are only a few players that charge six figures for the product. If we succeed, I too will be giving back to the world of open source.


Thanks,
Ryan

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

As of v3.14, there're a couple of things I don't
like about Synchronet.

Mainly its message reading functionality. Thus

far this is my critique,

Yes I agree, I don't particularly like it either.

Man did you write How To Win Friends And Influence People ? or was that Dale Carnagie ... :)

[...]

Thanks. You know back in the 90's when everyone was telling me I should be using Telegard, PC Board, or whatever.. I never
switched. I was the only Maximus BBS in our county
for a long time and spread the word. A few people
tried it but it was too hard for them. In 2003 when I broguht my bbs

Yeah. Maximus is for massochists - like people who use Unix and love reading man pages all day. My *.ctl files are full of notes & anecdotes. Can't do that with PC Board / Telegard / RA.

back to life I insisted on keeping it Maximus, or not
opening it again. I gave the new Linux maximus a try
but it wasn't usable so I waited it out.... for 4
YEARS. Read the MUFFIN archives, you'll see my posts have always asked about supporting DOS doors. How much longer am I
supposed to wait to get Maximus running in Linux with
DOS doors? As you have seen I have explorered

I don't think there'll be any major Maximus developments for another 10 years.

alternatives such as running the entire Maximus system
inside of dosbox or dosemu. I don't want to switch,
but I'm not waiting another 4 years. I think you even

I don't understand why you can't run it in VMware. All DOS stuff will have to run in VM eventually - DOSBOX, DOSEMU, Ntvdm ... Because your primary concern is with doors, and most of them are DOS doors; you're only delaying the inevitable. It won't matter whether you run your BBS under Linux or Solaris unless those doors are cross-compiled to other platforms there'll be qwerks or disfunction.

Most BBS's run under Win32 or Microsoft derivative because these platforms and OS's were the most popular during the BBS era. I've seen no serious gaming or door variety under *nix ports of BBS software, and SysOps that choose to host a
BBS under *nix have skeleton setups and run them for novel reasons like making use of an old 386 running Debian etc.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

let's make it even easier... just imagine creating and
maintaining a phonebook database... how many field of
data are there? how do you store them? what about

Depending on preference, life's harder for those who write bottom-up or reinvent the wheel.

Ease depends on the design & implementation.

For example it makes more sense to use an SQL database and manipulate data using SQL than write a program in C/C++.

sorting? recall? now, let's figure out how to display
them on screen... we'll worry about printing them
later...

Well it depends on how many sorting and recalling library functions and classes
you're aware of that can manipulate data/objects the way you want. Then there're things called "templates" ...

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

MvanL> * I don't like the board/sub-board (RA-style group/subgroup)
MvanL> file/message area categorising method.

what "RA-style group/subgroup" style? don't use it if
you don't like it... RA didn't have it for a long time
but it was one of the most requested functions asked
for...

That's my point - they opted for the current style. I think the Maximus style is better.

I'm not fully purposely descending into a BBS software war, however I instigate
controversy for the limited intellectual stimulus.

I was expressing the preferences of different SysOps and the strengths and weaknesses of different BBS software, and by nature of these debates invite the
"enemy" to emphasise my weaknesses - I will always put forth my strengths and exploit "their" weaknesses. Unilateral attacks are more interesting.

[...]

the biggest "problem" comes from folk who expect every
board to be just like every other... that happens
because they are not aware that the sysop has the
freedom, with properly designed software, to make
things look and act like they want and not just get
stuck with "skinning" capabilities...

Yeah but it comes at a cost whereby SysOps must hack or work around problems because their chosen BBS software doesn't inherently support those features.

For example it'd be a nightmare to mimmick the Maximus area divisioning behaviour in Synchronet / RA where areas are numerically defined instead of alphanumerically capable.

MvanL> But Scott Dudley disappared off the face of the earth. I don't
MvanL> blame him. So now there's only a half-arsed
intermittently commited
MvanL> ragtag user group left.

apparently you don't have all the facts, either... bob
jones is limited by a job contract in what he can do as
far as developing and coding anything... the
limitations of that contract are almost expired...
until that expiration time passes, he felt that it was
safer for the existing code to not be handled by
himself so that it would not be misclassified and have
that company he was contracted with trying to claim it
for their own...

I remember that thread.

I appreciate all efforts and contributions towards Maximus.

That doesn't change the fact that there has been nothing new since 2003, and Bob only expressed an interest in cleaning up some bugs and making a Linux installer. Eventhough this is much (much) more than what I've done or proposed to date, it does not constitute a concerted effort to revive Maximus and therefore does not change my view of a ragtag team (if 1 person can be called a
team).

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Part of the problem with the Maximus/Squish code when
it was released was that it no longer built properly on
the operating systems it already ran on
(DOS/OS2/Win32). I don't know if the situation has
changed since then, but certainly the main driving

I successfully built Squish & Maximus for DOS & NT. Dropped the ball with OS/2.

factor behind Maximus development was to get it running
on Linux, not add new features.

Hypothetically if I contracted dozens of dedicated
Chinese/Indian/Russian students AUD$5k pa to develop Maximus it
would easily be better than Synchronet. Money is a powerful
catalyst.

That sounds like a good advertisement for Synchronet.

Great. So I can be the only SysOp on earth (alive) that has Maximus. MuahahAHA (evil laugh) and everybody will have to log on to MY bbs if they want to see it
and get support. Artificially induced scarcity hikes up value baby.

Come see Maximus before it goes extinct (!). I can charge a logon fee.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this is a poor
attitude to take towards
free software, especially open source stuff. We are
all volunteers, so you can't just go around expectin

I realize that, but Mvan Le was accusing me of being an UN evangalist for Maximus for talking about using Sycnrhonet. I was
explaining how wrong that statement is, how loyal I
have been to Maximus. I did not want to revive my BBS unless it was using Maximus and gave it a chance, for 4 years before
CONSIDERING different software. I have been using
Maximus loyally since 1993 and what Mvan said made me
want him to understand my position. I don't want to
switch to Synchronet if I can get Maximus running with
DOS doors in Linux or Solaris. I don't expect him or
anyone to make the changes I'm asking for. But don't
call me an UN evangelist for Maximus for thinking
about using another program that might do what I want
after giving Maximus a fair chance. I'm not a C
programmer, and therefore cannot do the change myself.

Wow. Will wonders never cease Ryan's ticked off. I thought that was impossible !


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

I realize that, but Mvan Le was accusing me of being an UN
evangalist for Maximus for talking about using Sycnrhonet.

No, I think he called you a UN embassador, as in the United Nations.

I expect to be construed as a smug, arrogant ignoramous. I'm fully self aware. Good stress relief :)

But what else could "UN" have stood for ... I don't get it -- "UN evangealist" ? O_o

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

errrmmm... i didn't read it like that... was i
misreading UN to mean "United Nations" instead of
"negative"?? seemed to me that mvan's message was quite
the opposite??

[...]

negative jab. After all, I did discuss the possibility
of switching to Syncrhonet in this echo. Anyway, it's

Yeah and I was going to give you a buckshot for it.

If Synchronet does what you want, use it.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

MvanL> * I don't like the board/sub-board (RA-style
MvanL> group/subgroup) file/message area categorising method.

what "RA-style group/subgroup" style? don't use it if
you don't like it... RA didn't have it for a long time
but it was one of the most requested functions asked
for...

MvanL> That's my point - they opted for the current style. I think the
MvanL> Maximus style is better.

i still don't understand what you are calling "style"??

MvanL> I'm not fully purposely descending into a BBS software war,

me either... i'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to describe and respond to that...

MvanL> [...]

the biggest "problem" comes from folk who expect every
board to be just like every other... that happens
because they are not aware that the sysop has the
freedom, with properly designed software, to make
things look and act like they want and not just get
stuck with "skinning" capabilities...

MvanL> Yeah but it comes at a cost whereby SysOps must hack or work
MvanL> around problems because their chosen BBS software doesn't
MvanL> inherently support those features.

hunh?? nonono... i'm talking about joe sysop and john sysop who both download the same bbs software and install it without any modification using all the default screens and menus... users to their boards see the same presentation...
now, one of those users calls fred sysop's bbs which is also running the exact same software but fred has taken the time to "skin it" by making his own screens... next door to fred, is alex who also runs the same bbs software... alex has gone even further because he has found the menu editor and come up with his own menu keys and option layouts... alex comes from an old mainframe style world where everything is chosen from menus of no more then ten (10) options... that makes it very easy cause there's only 0-9 to hit but it makes it more complicated because now there have to be dozens more menu screens...

none of the above have "hacked" anything or had to work around any problems as there are none... now, the callers, on the other hand, may be a bit confused or
maybe not...

MvanL> For example it'd be a nightmare to mimmick the Maximus area
MvanL> divisioning behaviour in Synchronet / RA where areas are
MvanL> numerically defined instead of alphanumerically capable.

but it isn't all that hard... one could easily do it with a script... but yes, alphanumeric access to an area may be easier for some... but it also all depends on what you get used to, too... i have to wonder, though, at what happens when things are moved around and reorganized... with RA, there are two numbers with each area... one used for display and the other used behind the scenes for the record number of the area definition as well as the datafile names... so i can "renumber" my areas without changing anything and external software won't loose track as long as they go by the proper id number... this type of thing also comes into play with offline mail setups... in the past, if a sysop added new areas by inserting them instead of appending them, users who downloaded offline mail before the change and uploaded after the change would inevitably get some messages posted to the wrong message areas thru no fault of
their own... no fault, really, of the sysop, either... many folk like to see stuff alphabetically instead of in arrival order...

MvanL> But Scott Dudley disappared off the face of the earth. I
MvanL> don't blame him. So now there's only a half-arsed
MvanL> intermittently commited ragtag user group left.

apparently you don't have all the facts, either... bob
jones is limited by a job contract in what he can do as
far as developing and coding anything... the
limitations of that contract are almost expired...
until that expiration time passes, he felt that it was
safer for the existing code to not be handled by
himself so that it would not be misclassified and have
that company he was contracted with trying to claim it
for their own...

MvanL> I remember that thread.

it didn't seem that you did...

MvanL> I appreciate all efforts and contributions towards Maximus.

MvanL> That doesn't change the fact that there has been nothing new
MvanL> since 2003,

what do you expect to see as a new feature?

MvanL> and Bob only expressed an interest in cleaning up some bugs and
MvanL> making a Linux installer.

i see nothing wrong with that... the original main goal was simply to get the original code working in the *nix environment... seems to me that that is still
the goal and it simply hasn't been accomplished as of yet mainly due to that interruption that bob faced with that contract job...

MvanL> Eventhough this is much (much) more than what I've done or
MvanL> proposed to date, it does not constitute a concerted effort to
MvanL> revive Maximus and therefore does not change my view of a
MvanL> ragtag team (if 1 person can be called a team).

you can't blame bob for what happened to him WRT that job he took... truth is that most bbs software is a one man endevor and always has been... i'm aware of
only two or three packages that were more than one person teams but every one of them started as a one person project... two of those are dead and gone and another has gone back to a one person endevor...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

MvanL> But what else could "UN" have stood for ... I don't get it -- "UN
MvanL> evangealist" ? O_o

think "ingenious" and "ungenious"... one means "pretty smart"... the other can be read as "not smart"... "not" coming from "un" as in "unopened" meaning "not opened"...

then add CAPS for emphasis and a typo space...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

MvanL> That's my point - they opted for the current style. I think the
MvanL> Maximus style is better.

i still don't understand what you are calling "style"??

In Maximus 3.x you can do things like this:

filearea 2
acs demoted
desc Opus v1.79 (May 1st, 1997)
download m:\base\filebase\lcl\bbs\software\opus\v1.79
upload m:\base\filebase\uploads
end filearea

filearea tools
acs demoted
desc Opus v1.79 (May 1st, 1997)
download m:\base\filebase\lcl\bbs\software\opus\v1.79\tools
upload m:\base\filebase\uploads
end filearea

; end .lcl.bbs.soft.opus
filedivisionend

filedivisionbegin iniq demoted . Iniquity

filearea 1
acs limited
desc Iniquity program files and source code
download m:\base\filebase\lcl\bbs\software\iniquity
upload m:\base\filebase\uploads
end filearea

; end .lcl.bbs.soft.iniq
filedivisionend

; end .lcl.bbs.soft
filedivisionend

filedivisionbegin dailey demoted . johndaileysoftware.com

filearea 1
acs normal
desc BBS Doors
download m:\base\filebase\lcl\bbs\doors\dailey\doors
upload m:\base\filebase\uploads
end filearea

...
...
...

; end .lcl.bbs.dailey
filedivisionend

; end .lcl.bbs
filedivisionend

You can nest as deep as you want, and file areas can represent your physical directory structure on disk which makes sorting and organising files more natural.

Which ends up looking like this when they're displayed:

============================================================================
File Areas --------------

lcl.bbs.1 ... Fidonet nodelists and policies
...
...
...
lcl.bbs.soft ... BBS Software
lcl.bbs.dailey ... johndaileysoftware.com

For more areas, type ".." to go up one level or "/" for top level areas.

File area (Area, "["=Prior, "]"=Next, "?"=List): ============================================================================

And at the "File area (Area..." prompt users can enter atomic paths to switch file or message areas eg.:

File area (Area, "["=Prior, "]"=Next, "?"=List): lcl.bbs.soft.opus.tools

instead of typing in meaningless numbers when displaying "groups & subgroups" while switching areas etc.

To my knowledge the Synchronet & RA-style only allows a two-level breakdown of file & message areas into groups & subgroups. That's crap. imo.

MvanL> I'm not fully purposely descending into a BBS software war,

me either... i'm just trying to figure out what you are
trying to describe and respond to that...

[...]

hunh?? nonono... i'm talking about joe sysop and john sysop who both download the same bbs software and install it without any modification using all the default screens and menus... users to
their boards see the same presentation... now, one of
those users calls fred sysop's bbs which is also
running the exact same software but fred has taken the time to "skin it" by making his own screens... next door to fred, is alex
who also runs the same bbs software... alex has gone
even further because he has found the menu editor and
come up with his own menu keys and option layouts...
alex comes from an old mainframe style world where
everything is chosen from menus of no more then ten
(10) options... that makes it very easy cause there's
only 0-9 to hit but it makes it more complicated
because now there have to be dozens more menu screens...

none of the above have "hacked" anything or had to work
around any problems as there are none... now, the
callers, on the other hand, may be a bit confused or
maybe not...

Yeah. Well to draw distinctions between BBS software it's more comparable to compare the standard features (excluding mods and plugins). That's the approach
I use, until people/authors start cheating by distributing plugins & modules as
part of thier "standard" package which is arguably misrepresenting practice to me :)

MvanL> For example it'd be a nightmare to mimmick the Maximus area
MvanL> divisioning behaviour in Synchronet / RA where areas are
MvanL> numerically defined instead of alphanumerically capable.

but it isn't all that hard... one could easily do it with a script... but

When BBS functions/functionalities are not part of the BBS binary, or outside the source code that's cheating.

yes, alphanumeric access to an area may be easier for
some... but it also all depends on what you get used
to, too... i have to wonder, though, at what happens
when things are moved around and reorganized... with RA, there are two

Well one day I'm going to add environment variables to Maximus control files baby. Add a preprocessor to Silt that translates Operating System environment variables and/or #define directives in Maximus Ctl files.

If I want to change or move things around, just change a global variable.

eg.

C:\> set bbsdrive=M:

Filereas.Ctl:

#define BASE \base\filebase
#define UPLOAD_DIR %%bbsdrive%%\BASE

filearea 1
acs normal
desc BBS Doors
download BASE\lcl\bbs\doors\dailey\doors
upload UPLOAD_DIR
end filearea

MuahaHAHA (evil laugh).

numbers with each area... one used for display and the
other used behind the scenes for the record number of
the area definition as well as the datafile names... so
i can "renumber" my areas without changing anything and external software won't loose track as long as they go by the proper id
number... this type of thing also comes into play with
offline mail setups... in the past, if a sysop added
new areas by inserting them instead of appending them,
users who downloaded offline mail before the change and
uploaded after the change would inevitably get some
messages posted to the wrong message areas thru no
fault of their own... no fault, really, of the sysop,
either... many folk like to see stuff alphabetically
instead of in arrival order...

What you've described is the limitation of numerically based area definitions, which necessitates use of an internal ID number to maintain consistency when inserting new or reordering areas.

In Maximus any file or message area can be given a unique definition or label so there're no clashes. They work like domain names, so the label/area itself acts like a RA equivalent internal ID number. If I wanted to reorder an area I just cut & paste a block definition somewhere else.

Should the need to increment "numbers" arises I'd have to resort to a sed/awk script or something. <shrug>

But then again, Maximus can implement the TAG keyword for filearea definitions since it already supports it for message areas. This would solve all perceivable problems and allow external programs to differentiate between areas
that have the SAME number in the SAME "subgroup". Sort of how Squish and areas.bbs works with universal static echoarea tags.

I'll add it to the todos list. Heh.

All this flexibility stems from Maximus' native support for alphanumeric area definitions.

[...]

apparently you don't have all the facts, either... bob
jones is limited by a job contract in what he can do as
far as developing and coding anything... the
limitations of that contract are almost expired...
until that expiration time passes, he felt that it was
safer for the existing code to not be handled by
himself so that it would not be misclassified and have
that company he was contracted with trying to claim it
for their own...

MvanL> I remember that thread.

it didn't seem that you did...

I don't lead-in my messages/replies with disclaimers and clauses. It's all assumed knowledge unless there's blatant ignorance or misinformation has occurred.

MvanL> I appreciate all efforts and contributions towards Maximus.

MvanL> That doesn't change the fact that there has been nothing new
MvanL> since 2003,

what do you expect to see as a new feature?

Here's my wishlist so far:

Directory of M:\todos\dev

05/05/2007 13:34 <DIR> .
05/05/2007 13:34 <DIR> ..
05/05/2007 13:40 459 add.division_indicators.txt
13/10/2006 17:06 277 add.ip_number_in_(xxx)_yyy-zzzz_format.txt
21/09/2006 22:25 129 add.msgdivision_mail_indicator.txt 23/10/2006 07:15 346 add.msg_browse_list_date.txt
16/04/2007 03:39 198 add.tags.filename_wildcards.txt 23/10/2006 06:10 214 add.tags.list_tagged_areas.txt 10/04/2007 05:39 1,899 add.useredit.number_of_total.txt 16/10/2006 11:37 56 add.wfc_node_number.txt
10/04/2007 09:26 3,283 bug.change_squish_message.txt
22/10/2006 11:05 718 bug.msg_ptrs.txt
05/05/2007 12:39 791 enhance.files.bbs_line_limit.txt 30/12/2006 08:49 133 enhance.files.download_limit.txt 11/04/2007 08:35 478 enhance.files.locate.txt
30/12/2006 09:12 64 enhance.files.scroll_listing.txt 27/12/2006 06:16 459 enhance.menus.selection_char_position.txt
16/04/2007 03:54 409 enhance.msgs.browse.txt
05/05/2007 13:43 219 enhance.msgs.multiple_editors.txt 11/04/2007 08:57 376 enhance.msgs.search_echotags.txt 16/04/2007 03:55 369 enhance.msgs.search_echotags2.txt 29/04/2007 11:43 441 enhance.msgs.txt
02/05/2007 21:52 476 enhance.timeout.txt
13/10/2006 17:13 506 fix.make_guest_reconfig_optional.txt 18/11/2006 08:22 501 misc.Future_Version_roadmap.txt 17/11/2006 15:22 146 new.+ice_2_mexchat.txt
17/10/2006 09:47 113 new.door32sys.txt
28/04/2007 09:02 65,717 new.exitinfobbs_dropfile.src-sbbs3-xtrn_sec_cpp - view - 1_55.mht
27/12/2006 06:03 347 new.global_menus.txt
16/04/2007 04:01 286 new.login_by_usr#.txt
12/10/2006 01:31 69 new.long_filenames.txt
11/04/2007 09:00 797 README.TXT
13/10/2006 17:09 421 svr.ftp.txt
12/10/2006 01:43 94 svr.http.txt
18/11/2006 08:17 23 svr.smtp.txt
28/04/2007 10:00 1,997 util.silt.txt
27/04/2007 20:37 1,271 util.silt.txt~
34 File(s) 83,404 bytes
2 Dir(s) 865,581,056 bytes f

Anybody up for it ?

Heh.

[...]

you can't blame bob for what happened to him WRT that
job he took... truth is that most bbs software is a one
man endevor and always has been... i'm aware of only
two or three packages that were more than one person
teams but every one of them started as a one person
project... two of those are dead and gone and another
has gone back to a one person endevor...

I'm dissing the lack of progress on Maximus. But I'm blaming noone.

There're about 5 people working on Synchronet.

I agree with Andrew Clarke's post about attitudes to OSS. Either pay someone to
do it or go DIY.

When VMware doesn't work anymore I'll have to pay a whole team to port it to another platform using MVC++ or something. Who knows.

I might even contract Rob Swindell =P

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

Re: What I Don't Like About Synchronet
By: Mvan Le to Mark Lewis on Fri May 04 2007 09:15 pm

There're about 5 people working on Synchronet.

Actually, it's only 2 people that actively work on Synchronet (Stephen Hurd and myself). We, very occasionally, get submissions/help from others, but that's few and far between. :-(

digital man (xbox-live: digitlman)

Snapple "Real Fact" #63:
The average human produces 10,000 gallons of saliva in a lifetime.
Norco, CA WX: 56.3°F, 68% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

I might give this a try sometime. Tonight I moved the BBS off my old PII450 onto a newer P4 1.5 GHz Windows XP machine which I haven't used much in the last few months. I found the BBS was sometimes very sluggish to start when first connected on the old machine. The problem I'm having now is the TP7P5FIX.COM TSR designed to fix the Runtime Error 200 in pascal programs doesn't work on my faster computer. It was designed for slower PII computer and works great on them... So it seems that I might have to give up my pasc doors such as Planets TEOS :( That _really_ sucks. I'd probably have the sa problem in dosbox and dosemu.

Have you tried TpPatch ?

TPPATCH.ZIP 9691 19-08-02 Patch for Turbo Pascal programs run on PII-
200mHz or greater. Fixes "Divide by zero"
("Error 200") errors. Some programs here (like
Seal) will need this patch applied. Also see
UNP below!

Hello Mvan.

29 Apr 07 03:11, you wrote to Joe Bruchis:

* It lacks some of the user-customisable message searching functions
that Maximus has eg. Browse Msg -> All areas -> List messages (instead
of Read messages) etc.

This is what Baja and ssjs are for. :)

* I don't like the board/sub-board (RA-style group/subgroup)
file/message area categorising method. Traversing the Maximus Usenet
style divisions are a more logical/relational/intuitive breakdown of message groups & areas. (imo). And the heirarchies can be embedded
deep.

I have to disagree with you here. I disliked the way Maximus handled this. I like Synchronet's way much better -- very similar to what Wildcat! and WINServer do.

Anything can be made "highly customisable" if you have source code.

I totally agree. I was about to make the point that if you know how to code in
C/C++ or JavaScript, then you could download the source code and compile in all
these features yourself. That's the beauty of open source!

Hypothetically if I contracted dozens of dedicated
Chinese/Indian/Russian students AUD$5k pa to develop Maximus it would easily be better than Synchronet. Money is a powerful catalyst.

But thne you would have to release all your source code mods under the GPL or something like that.

Robert

--- GoldED+/EMX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Powered by eComStation 2.0 Beta 4! (1:261/20)

Hypothetically if I contracted dozens of dedicated
Chinese/Indian/Russian students AUD$5k pa to develop Maximus it would easily be better than Synchronet. Money is a powerful catalyst.

But thne you would have to release all your source code
mods under the GPL or something like that.

Gladly, no dramas :)

But personally I'm not sure when I can knuckle down on Maximus because I'm too selfishly money oriented / motivated atm. I fit the stereotype well.

I must get rich at all costs, and may progressively resort to alternative measures if necessary. Time is still on my side though.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

* Original From: andrew clarke (1:343/41)
* Original To : Ryan de Laplante (1:343/41)

Sat 2007-04-28 15:46, Ryan de Laplante (1:229/1394) wrote to All:

Has anyone tried running the DOS version of Maximus, Squish, BNU
and door games inside of dosemu or dosbox?

A few months ago I had a quick play with Telix running under DOSBox. From memory, it worked OK, but would drop characters occasionally, which caused Zmodem to fail. There were probably some configuration settings to fix that.

DOSBox can be set up so it can listen on a TCP port and redirect data to its virtual COM port. In dosbox.conf:

serial1=modem listenport:5000

If you can somehow get the Linux version of Maximus to make an outbound TCP connection, you could tell it to start DOSBox and run the DOS door game then connect to localhost on the port DOSBox is listening on.

Or you could just run the DOS version of Maximus under DOSBox, and put up with whatever limitations it has compared to the Linux version.

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)