Heh. I'm one of those guys who still runs Opus on a 486dx/33 with Wfw.

I still have my 286/20 with 2mb ram and plan on
powering it up one day, maybe put another Maximus node on it :)

Cool! I kept my old 386 that used to run the BBS. It still has a copy on it.

I would never start a company :) Crappy reward:effort
ratio. I'm the type that knows a business that will
work when I see it. I'm a venture capitalist. Let the
directors do the work.

Yeah I think you're right there. I don't know what I'd do with myself when retired. Start a software company? :)

sell to win them. I hope they don't compensate you with
share schemes because Nasqdaq:SUNW went +60.00->9.00 in
5 years :)

True, and that's why they went open everything. New CEO, they've turned the company uside down, layed off thousands, restructured their business. I like what they are doing. I own SUNW shares which don't really go up or down, but obviosuly I'm hoping they go up some day. I bought in after their price went down.

When I suggested avoid becoming trapped, I meant avoid
becoming locked-in to your current career role,
position, or work and/or career altogether in general.
Put your focus into creating wealth and financial
freedom and break out of the rat race.

Good advice, thanks. I've realized that many of the companies we work with no longer have programmers. They only keep business system analysts and software architechts. The programmers are off-shore. Many programmers have told me to build strong system analyst skills meaning be able to gather and document requirements in a certain way etc... That's part of my focus now.

As for building wealth, I got a head start on building my wealth and am doing pretty good so far. I'm still quite young though and have a lot to learn. It sounds like you're quite the seasoned professional when it comes to contracts and finances.

Well basically it's a complex process to run doors
under DOS EMU. Sycnrhonet uses a mod to make the
process easier.

Oh it's easy, you can do it :)

Yeah. $4k. I ain't got $4k for a PC :)

Let me see how much $4k is worth to me ... $4000 / $300
margin requirement = 13 contracts on the ASX200. 13
contracts, for 6000 pts at $5/pt = $400,000.

See, you spend $4k on a PC. I control almost half a
million dollars with it. That's how much $4k is really
worth to me - not to be spent on easily
obsolete/redundant stuff.

I didn't say I would buy it for myself at home, I meant for businesses. Don't buy Dell, HP, IBM. Buy Sun SPARC. Faster, uses less electricity and you need fewer servers. It can be more affordable.

I have no idea what your calculations meant, but you obviously know your stuff.
I put more money into my retirement savings and extra payments on my mortgage every year than I spend on computer gadgets, clothing and entertainment. I too
hope to retire by 40. I'm quite the penny pincher.


For some reason the full screen editor won't show me the last few lines to quote them. You asked me to look around the room and see how much black I see.
Then you asked how much blue I see. I don't get it? What's kind of funny is that I'm in a blue room.

So how many years have you been working as a programmer?


Thanks,
Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

I still have my 286/20 with 2mb ram and plan on
powering it up one day, maybe put another Maximus node on it :)

Cool! I kept my old 386 that used to run the BBS. It
still has a copy on it.

I lost my first BBS on that 286. It was a Maximus board with a loser uncreative
name. These days I use an even MORE unimaginative name :/ I was poor back then and couldn't afford the backup media. Bummer.

Yeah I think you're right there. I don't know what I'd
do with myself when retired. Start a software
company? :)

Mate, if you don't know what to do now I suggest start forming some dreams. Avoid being defined by your work. People who say "I wouldn't know what to do on
my day off" (or time in lieu, paid leave etc.) have absolutely NFI. They might as well get a Second Life account or some rope and a chair.

True, and that's why they went open everything. New
CEO, they've turned the company uside down, layed off
thousands, restructured their business. I like what
they are doing. I own SUNW shares which don't really
go up or down, but obviosuly I'm hoping they go up
some day. I bought in after their price went down.

Were they awarded as part of an employee plan ? or did you actually buy those shares -- good grief if the latter.

Good advice, thanks. I've realized that many of the
companies we work with no longer have programmers.
They only keep business system analysts and software
architechts. The programmers are off-shore. Many

Yep. All SAP analysts, or learning some in-house ERM/CRM, work flow, collaboration, delegation process. Bleh.

programmers have told me to build strong system
analyst skills meaning be able to gather and document
requirements in a certain way etc... That's part of my
focus now.

I use this thing called Visio. I can draw some spiffy pics with that.

As for building wealth, I got a head start on
building my wealth and am doing pretty good so far.
I'm still quite young though and have a lot to learn.
It sounds like you're quite the seasoned professional
when it comes to contracts and finances.

I'm an equities trader/investor. I have lost a lot of money. I have made more.

Well basically it's a complex process to run doors
under DOS EMU. Sycnrhonet uses a mod to make the
process easier.

Oh it's easy, you can do it :)

VMware I tell you. VMware !

See, you spend $4k on a PC. I control almost half a
million dollars with it. That's how much $4k is really
worth to me - not to be spent on easily
obsolete/redundant stuff.

I didn't say I would buy it for myself at home, I
meant for businesses. Don't buy Dell, HP, IBM. Buy Sun
SPARC. Faster, uses less electricity and you need
fewer servers. It can be more affordable.

Yeah. The whole vertical scaling thing. Until your big server dies and there's no failover ... Sorry. I'm a big cynic.

I have no idea what your calculations meant, but you
obviously know your stuff. I put more money into my
retirement savings and extra payments on my mortgage
every year than I spend on computer gadgets, clothing
and entertainment. I too hope to retire by 40. I'm
quite the penny pincher.

Man. You mean that 401k ponzi scam your government runs ?

You need to be more active than that.

You can't beat me. I had to think about attending my best friend's birthday. If
I did I would've had to move my body, which burns energy, from the food I bought. Every calorie costs money. So try not to breathe.

For some reason the full screen editor won't show me
the last few lines to quote them. You asked me to
look around the room and see how much black I see.
Then you asked how much blue I see. I don't get it?
What's kind of funny is that I'm in a blue room.

It's an exercise in perception, meant to demonstrate that you see what you want
to see. Or more accurately you see what you have learned to see :)

So how many years have you been working as a programmer?

I don't program professionally.

I know some C. Now I'm learning C++ so I can understand all that PowerShell stuff. I'm a strong Unix shell scripter (Perl, Ksh/Bash, Awk/Sed, Regexps).

I started in OPs. These days I work in "infrustructure support" (whatever that means). I have to kiss a lot of ass, and work with them all day.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Hello Mvan.

10 Apr 07 11:21, you wrote to me:

That may be, but they said 2-3 week for delivery ... , so I am
hopefully waiting ... :-)

Arrived in the post to-day .... <VVBG>

Can't you just download it ?

Ooooh yes, but I don't have the "bandwidth" only can
download/upload 2gig a
month, after which no more connection till month end ... :-(((

2gb. Outch that's harsh.

Yes, ...

You'd be crazy to setup a FTP server on that kind of plan.

Yes, if someone needs something, I usually drop it in their binkd filebox ...

I get 30 gb @ 8 Mbits, throttled to 256/64kbs no excess charges.

OOOOOH ..... , lovely ..... , I have 384kbs down, 64kbs up, with 2gig cap on ALL traffic both ways included in cap, then nothing ... , at a cost of almost a full $95 US ... <sob, sob, sob>
Most times I get by just fine, if only just ... <sigh>

Russell

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7105/1)

I get 30 gb @ 8 Mbits, throttled to 256/64kbs no excess charges.

OOOOOH ..... , lovely ..... , I have 384kbs down, 64kbs
up, with 2gig cap on
ALL traffic both ways included in cap, then nothing ...
, at a cost of almost
a full $95 US ... <sob, sob, sob>
Most times I get by just fine, if only just ... <sigh>

Included up & downstream; Man I'd be spewing.

Are there any happy-download (free) times ?

Is that the best plan you can get ?

$95 USD ... I pay $24 USD.

I thought if you were in the US you'd be getting 24 - 30 mbits for peanuts. I must have it all wrong about the priority governments place on broadband there in the states.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Mate, if you don't know what to do now I suggest start
forming some dreams. Avoid being defined by your work.
People who say "I wouldn't know what to do on my day
off" (or time in lieu, paid leave etc.) have absolutely
NFI. They might as well get a Second Life account or
some rope and a chair.

My dream since I was 12 years old has been to run a software company. With the
company I'm at now, I've almost reached that goal but my real goal is to start one from scratch and grow it. Since I don't have a real plan, it hasn't happened yet. I don't think I'll ever be completely happy with my life until I at least try. Even if it crashes and burns. To me work isn't such a horrible thing like it is for you. I love work. I used to program a lot before I worked
professionally. Now I do it at work for money, and come home and study things related to programming that I'm interested in and that I can use at work. It's
a hobby. If I had enough money to retire at 40, meaning house paid off, nice car paid off, lots of money in the bank, AND I had not yet tried to start a software company than I would consider doing it. I enjoy it. I'm fully aware of the stresses involved, I live them every day. It's not so stressful when you are organized. Something else I'd love to do is travel all over the world.
Live in different countries for 6 months at a time.

Were they awarded as part of an employee plan ? or did
you actually buy those shares -- good grief if the
latter.

Wow you really don't like Sun. I paid for their stocks because I love their software, their hardware, and what they are doing.

Yeah. The whole vertical scaling thing. Until your big
server dies and there's no failover ... Sorry. I'm a
big cynic.

Ok you so don't like Sun. You can have failover with IBM serverS or Sun serverS, except I prefer Sun servers. Not everyone is an idiot like you may think.

Man. You mean that 401k ponzi scam your government runs ?
You need to be more active than that.

No, I live in Canada. We have something called Registered Retirement Savings Plan. Any money you put into it, you get 100% of your income tax paid on those
dollars back. The money inside of the RRSP can be stocks, mutual funds, bonds,
etc... Money you make inside of your RRSP is tax free, and you can reinvest it over and over. You pay tax on the money as you withdraw it so you only take out a bit every month when you retire. I own a number of mutual funds and stocks inside of my RRSP and they are doing quite well. Over 20% gains last year.


ttyl
Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

MvLe> Is that the best plan you can get ?

MvLe> $95 USD ... I pay $24 USD.

MvLe> I thought if you were in the US you'd be getting 24 - 30 mbits for
MvLe> peanuts. I must have it all wrong about the priority governments
MvLe> place on broadband there in the states.

errrmmm... ya need to look at those origin lines a bit closer... russell is in zone 5 which is africa... more specifically, he is in Free State, South Africa (as his origin line states) ;)

9600baud radio modem connections carrying TCPIP (instead of UUCP or even FIDO) are common methods of networking and communications over there... TCPIP has a huge overhead when compared to UUCP and FIDO... i can't even imagine working with it over a 9600baud radio link!

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

My dream since I was 12 years old has been to run a software company. With the company I'm at now, I've almost reached that goal but my real goal is to start one from scratch and grow it. Since
I don't have a real plan, it hasn't happened yet. I
don't think I'll ever be completely happy with my life
until I at least try. Even if it crashes and burns. To me work isn't such a horrible thing like it is for you. I love work.

Somehow I get the feeling you're in your early 20s, because only someone in their 20s would adopt a naive "love work" attitude because they haven't quite grasped the idea that time is finite. (btw These types of people are different to those that believe in the "duty" of work ... which is equally absurd to me).
What isn't finite is the infinite miracles in the universe, to explore, experience, ponder, reflect on, and somehow I don't think work ranks anwhere close :)

Work-driven people are insane.

The typical pattern I see in society are people headed into a midlife crisis. These people spend a lot of energy on the wrong things and later wonder why they're old and wretched, and why their kids don't like them. They'll make good
Dr. Phill cases :)

I have 1 valuable human life, and spending two thirds plus of it working is unjust.

I used to program a lot before I worked
professionally. Now I do it at work for money, and
come home and study things related to programming that I'm interested in and that I can use at work. It's a hobby. If I had
enough money to retire at 40, meaning house paid off,
nice car paid off, lots of money in the bank, AND I
had not yet tried to start a software company than I

When you have enough passive / residual income to finance your 1) house, 2) car, 3) company without getting out of bed you are free to do what you want. Otherwise you're still shackled in the status quo.

would consider doing it. I enjoy it. I'm fully aware
of the stresses involved, I live them every day. It's
not so stressful when you are organized. Something

Hmm. ... being aware of something doesn't automatically make it a functional part of who you are. Awareness doesn't necessarily make it a belief or part of your identity. It's not the type of stress you're familiar with as an employee.
If you've run a business before let me know :)

It's easy to say do it whether it 'crashes and burns' I assure you it is no emotional, psychological or spiritual trivial matter. It can deplete and wreck your life. Change your core beliefs and scar and fill you with permanent msitrust, hatred and dispair. Brother against brother. All gone.

Thriving off stress is a good business characteristic :)

I think aspiring money-makers fall in 4 types of categeories

(1) The employee
(2) The small business owner
(3) The big business owners
(4) The investors

Everybody aims for #4 which ultimately leads to financial freedom. But of all those 4, the ones I feel most sorry for are the small business owners :)

else I'd love to do is travel all over the world.
Live in different countries for 6 months at a time.

Now that's what I'm talking about :)

Were they awarded as part of an employee plan ? or did
you actually buy those shares -- good grief if the
latter.

Wow you really don't like Sun. I paid for their
stocks because I love their software, their hardware,
and what they are doing.

I got no beef with Sun. Except when running on x86 :)

Yeah. The whole vertical scaling thing. Until your big
server dies and there's no failover ... Sorry. I'm a
big cynic.

Ok you so don't like Sun. You can have failover with
IBM serverS or Sun serverS, except I prefer Sun
servers. Not everyone is an idiot like you may think.

I know that Sun can failover. I was involved in the change management process.

I was instead implying the cost of vertical scaling. I prefer distributed stuff. When I think about vertical scaling, I think about how over zealous and misguided businesses cut costs by overloading those things to the hilt, and when the failover doesn't happen smoothly BANG. someone gets fired. or some massive reprimand :) And worst of all i get called in.

Man. You mean that 401k ponzi scam your government runs ?
You need to be more active than that.

No, I live in Canada. We have something called Registered Retirement Savings Plan. Any money you put into it, you get 100%
of your income tax paid on those dollars back. The
money inside of the RRSP can be stocks, mutual funds,
bonds, etc... Money you make inside of your RRSP is
tax free, and you can reinvest it over and over. You
pay tax on the money as you withdraw it so you only
take out a bit every month when you retire. I own a
number of mutual funds and stocks inside of my RRSP
and they are doing quite well. Over 20% gains last
year.

Hmm. 20%. Retirement plans/funds are a bit too passive for me. I'm a bit more greedy than that :) I don't care how much incentive a government offers in tax deductions etc., the reason they provide the incentive is so they can lure you into a trap and lock your money away preventing you from using -your- money while they theivingly freeload off it.

You can't access your money until your "eligible" age. I ain't waiting 20 friggin years more to get my money (if I quit at 35).

I'm an active trader and I average 100% pa portfolio growth. When I trade sometimes I make 20% per -week-.

They think they can rip me off. In Australia we have a mandatory 9% employer contribution (which really is just another /tax/) and I think it's the world's biggest scam.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Somehow I get the feeling you're in your early 20s, because only someone in their 20s would adopt a naive "love work" attitude
because they haven't quite grasped the idea that time

You're almost right. I'm in my mid-20's. Maybe you are right about only people in their 20's love their job. At least I don't hate getting up in the morning because I hate my job, like some people I know. I think loving your job is important to keeping stress down, and happyness. If you have to do anything 40+
hours a week you better enjoy it or you'll always be miserable.

You can't be much older than me if your big plan is to retire at 35. How old are you? between 25-30? Maybe your age will explain why you are such an unhappy
sinister old fart. hehe jk :)

doesn't necessarily make it a belief or part of your
identity. It's not the type of stress you're familiar
with as an employee. If you've run a business before
let me know :)

I haven't had the financial responsibility of running a business but am the #2 man at this small software company, and have taken the reigns of the business for a few months when the owner was ill. I was quite shocked with how much he does every single day, I didn't realize until I was in charge for a while.

One challenge I have been facing over the last couple of years is deciding whether or not to go freelance. I've got a long term stable job, or I could venture into the unknown to pursue my childhood dream. I decided to wait an other couple years before considering it again.

It's easy to say do it whether it 'crashes and burns' I
assure you it is no emotional, psychological or
spiritual trivial matter. It can deplete and wreck your
life. Change your core beliefs and scar and fill you
with permanent msitrust, hatred and dispair. Brother
against brother. All gone.

Are you speaking from experience?

I think aspiring money-makers fall in 4 types of categeories
(1) The employee
(2) The small business owner
(3) The big business owners
(4) The investors

Everybody aims for #4 which ultimately leads to
financial freedom. But of all those 4, the ones I feel
most sorry for are the small business owners :)

Interesting opinion. I'm sure many would disagree with you.

Hmm. 20%. Retirement plans/funds are a bit too passive
for me. I'm a bit more greedy than that :) I don't care
how much incentive a government offers in tax
deductions etc., the reason they provide the incentive
is so they can lure you into a trap and lock your money
away preventing you from using -your- money while they
theivingly freeload off it.
You can't access your money until your "eligible" age.

No. The RRSP I'm talking about does not lock you in for any amount of time. I can take it all out tomorrow if I want to. If I did, I would be paying income tax on that money. When I put the money in, I get every penny of income taxes I
paid on those dollars back. I can buy any stock or mutual funds I want inside of the RRSP. It grows and grows and grows (if I chose the right funds and stocks). When it's time to use that money, I will take a bit out of a time when to avoid paying larger taxes. The tax money I got back when putting money
into RRSP's is paid back as you take the money out. The larger amount of money
you take out per year, the more taxes you pay.

I'm an active trader and I average 100% pa portfolio
growth. When I trade sometimes I make 20% per -week-.

Impressive, now I understand how you plan to retire at 35. My dad is an active
trader too and he does well. How much time do you spend researching and trading to be so successful? Or per week. I always thought you had to have your finger on the pulse of the stock market, always researching everything to stay on top of it which is just as much WORK as what I do to stay on top of programming topics for work. However that just keeps me employed, doesn't make
100% return on my investment like you do. Congradulations!


Thanks,
Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

You can't be much older than me if your big plan is to
retire at 35. How old are you? between 25-30? Maybe
your age will explain why you are such an unhappy
sinister old fart. hehe jk :)

Not long to go to the big three o.

One challenge I have been facing over the last couple
of years is deciding whether or not to go freelance.
I've got a long term stable job, or I could venture
into the unknown to pursue my childhood dream. I
decided to wait an other couple years before considering it again.

Sounds more like a dilemma to me.

If you want to start a business, you need to form a business plan.

You should be toying with a plan right now.

It's easy to say do it whether it 'crashes and burns' I
assure you it is no emotional, psychological or
spiritual trivial matter. It can deplete and wreck your
life. Change your core beliefs and scar and fill you
with permanent msitrust, hatred and dispair. Brother
against brother. All gone.

Are you speaking from experience?

When I was 10, my parents started a hot bread shop. Just typical asians with NFI; just exchanging hard labour & time for money. A lot of wog families started out similarly until their kids became doctors & lawyers etc later on in
life and families became powerful / famous in their asian communities, and consequently their 2nd and 3rd generations of relatives propagated. Anyway our (my parent's) "business" was hardly profitable.

They argued, they yelled and fought all the time - over money. Money was always
a damn issue. The two bedroom townhouse was a wreck, mum couldn't cook for shit. My 2 year old brother and I were malnutritioned and have always been underweight even to this day. My school work suffered with the constant distractions, frustrations and anger.

We got robbed once and I was there when the cops said "Why is this place like such a pigsty ?" I couldn't dignify the situation with a response so acted like
I couldn't give a shit about what he said to brush him off my back. He must've thought we all were real pathetic and disgusting that day and deserved to be robbed. He said it in front of me and my dad in the middle of our tiny 5 x 6m living room. Their job was to investigate a crime scene but they were mocking us instead. They achieved nothing but some notes and paperwork, so as to document & register us as another statistic. What a bullshit farce. Good for nothing cops. I should've smashed his face in.

They were in that business for 8 long hard years. Finally got enough money to quit and buy a house. This house is a double story, full brick 420m squ. house on 720m square suburban land. The inhabitants are distant, disconnected individuals. It has a cold gloomy, refrigerator, echoey feel to it. Dad's never
home. My younger brother's never home. There's a deep sense of unspoken regret throughout the family.

So I have to ask myself, was the sacrifice worth it. I wonder.

Time to break out the violin played to the malancholy tune in Schlinder's List.

When I was 14 this guy from school convinced me to store his bike rims in my garage temporarily for safe keeping. I come home from school with him and his mate, opened my garage, went upstairs (in my flat) for 2 mins, and when I came back down he was pressing me for his rims because he wanted to leave. Surprise surprise the rims were missing. Magically. I couldn't come up with an explanation. Now he was demanding I pay for his missing property. I go Ok, feeling confused and guilty I didn't want to be on anybody's bad side. But where was I going to come up with $40. But I did. And like I was born yesturday
I gave my savings to this scum bag.

He had descended from a family background of criminals, part of the "tough guy"
gangster crowd and even to this day I hope he is dead. Hopefully double-crossed
and shot dead in a drug deal that went bad somehow. Or burning alive screaming (to death) trapped in his crashed car or something during a chase.

A year later I get bashed at school in front of the canteen. Chipped my front incisor. I will never forget the guy that held me down while another guy's steel capped Doc Martins made contact with my face.

When I was 19 I met these guys in Uni we decided to sell glow sticks at raves. I said Ok, I hand over my $200 cash for the stock. I turn up to the rave, couldn't find those guys. They avoided me for a week, and when I caught up with
them they said they never got my money. He looked straight in my FACE and said it - "I don't know but you never gave us money." .......... ...... (!)

Cool. That day I learnt I could trust people ....... ...

Later my friend and I decide we would set up a hotdog stand in the city on new years. "We'll make a packet !". Sounded like a good idea. Too simple, too easy.
It would practically rain money on us. Just get the rolls, some sausages, some various sauces. Set up a portable billy stand. The big night came. We had a crappy table tennis table, had to buy sandwiches, cheese and ham from Seven Eleven. We had 16 customers all night. 12 hrs. It cost us $150, we made $80. I felt like such a knob. But I couldn't blame my friend. We went in it together, and got out together with whatever little dignity left.

So that's what you get for having a dumb plan.

Big laughs about it these days. He's a FX trader :) One of my best friends.

These days I joust with office politics and corporate backstabbers. It's amazing the range of personalities and dirty character traits there are. What people will say and/or do to make a friend out of you.

So these days I don't give a fuck what anybody says. I simply take what is _mine_. I will get my revenge on anybody that betrays me. Game on. I will retire young and rich so I can rub it in everybody's face those Good for nothing hypocrites.

I think aspiring money-makers fall in 4 types of categeories
(1) The employee
(2) The small business owner
(3) The big business owners
(4) The investors

Everybody aims for #4 which ultimately leads to
financial freedom. But of all those 4, the ones I feel
most sorry for are the small business owners :)

Interesting opinion. I'm sure many would disagree with you.

Yeah. The many "do-it-yourselfer's" out there who like to be their own boss and
do their own thing. The people you talk about are highly educated "professionals" who spend years pursuing post-graduate study PhDs and accrditation, whom are fiercely independent individuals who believe that if they work hard, they expect to be paid for their work. A bunch of delluded hardcore perfectionists who think nobody else can do a better job than the way they like the job done.

I love hiring and contracting people like this.

I can tell these types of people what i want done and then best leave them alone to do it unsupervised. I know that money is not the most important thing to these guys but their independence, freedom to express and be respected by "experts" in their field are much more important.

While I work on my business systems, I get these guys to work on my business.

Heh.

time when to avoid paying larger taxes. The tax money
I got back when putting money into RRSP's is paid back
as you take the money out. The larger amount of money
you take out per year, the more taxes you pay.

Like I said. It's scam.

I'm an active trader and I average 100% pa portfolio
growth. When I trade sometimes I make 20% per -week-.

Impressive, now I understand how you plan to retire at 35. My dad is an active trader too and he does well. How much time do
you spend researching and trading to be so successful?
Or per week. I always thought you had to have your
finger on the pulse of the stock market, always
researching everything to stay on top of it which is

Me. I open up a trading forum on the web with my browser, find out which stocks
are the most talked about in the last 5 hrs and I run after them. http://www.hotcopper.com.au. Research is overrated. Except when trading futures
markets, which I typically do well adhering to the insto's advice.

just as much WORK as what I do to stay on top of
programming topics for work. However that just keeps
me employed, doesn't make 100% return on my investment
like you do. Congradulations!

I wouldn't call it work. I read a few reports, that's it.

Your dad is one of those types of people who places their faith in analysis. The problem with analysis is how much of it do you have to do to prepare for every possible >>> unknown <<< variable in the market ? Heh. And when he gets burnt he feeds the viscious cycle by convincing himself that the more he knows the less likely the problem recurring.

It is natural to think like that. :)

The bottom line is it comes down to a decision to place a trade or not place a trade. It will be a winner, or it will be a loser. How you deal with losing will determine whether you're rich or poor.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Hello Mvan.

12 Apr 07 08:07, you wrote to me:

OOOOOH ..... , lovely ..... , I have 384kbs down, 64kbs
up, with 2gig cap on
ALL traffic both ways included in cap, then nothing ...
, at a cost of almost
a full $95 US ... <sob, sob, sob>
Most times I get by just fine, if only just ... <sigh>

Included up & downstream; Man I'd be spewing.

Yes ... , this is Africa

Are there any happy-download (free) times ?

No ...

Is that the best plan you can get ?

On agregate, yes ...

$95 USD ... I pay $24 USD.

I wish, on service and amount paid ...

I thought if you were in the US you'd be getting 24 - 30 mbits for peanuts. I must have it all wrong about the priority governments place
on broadband there in the states.

Read my origin ... :-)

Russell

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7105/1)

Hello mark.

12 Apr 07 00:10, you wrote to Mvan Le:


MvLe>> I thought if you were in the US you'd be getting 24 - 30 mbits
MvLe>> for peanuts. I must have it all wrong about the priority
MvLe>> governments place on broadband there in the states.

errrmmm... ya need to look at those origin lines a bit closer...
russell is in zone 5 which is africa... more specifically, he is in
Free State, South Africa (as his origin line states) ;)

9600baud radio modem connections carrying TCPIP (instead of UUCP or
even FIDO) are common methods of networking and communications over there... TCPIP has a huge overhead when compared to UUCP and FIDO... i can't even imagine working with it over a 9600baud radio link!

Very few of those left here, but further north, it is still a reality ... <sigh>

Russell

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7105/1)

Wow has this thread ever changed. It went from Maximus on Solaris to our personal lives heh. Luckily there is no moderator in this echo.

Sounds more like a dilemma to me.

If you want to start a business, you need to form a business plan.

You should be toying with a plan right now.

I have had many ideas for years and been building up skills on how to operate a
software company effectively. I don't have a product idea, and the only niche market skill I have would put me in compitition with my current employer. At this time, the only way I can see myself running a software company is freelance work. I have recently met a number of freelance developers. Some years they make more money than I do in 4-5 years! Other years it is not so good. I think I'm going to stick with my present employer as long as there is a job for me. When I'm done working there, I may try freelance work for 6 months and see how it goes. I don't think I can do freelance work while I have
a full time job, because freelance work is also a full time job.

Are you speaking from experience?

When I was 10, my parents started a hot bread shop.

...

Wow, I really can't say that I understand what that is like. I'm happy to see that you have done well for yourself and will hopefully be able to retire young. I can relate to your story about being conned out of money for those rims... except in my case I was so stupid I cashed a really big check (thousands of dollars) when I was in my late teens, his check bounced and he dissappeared. I had to get a lawyer and have him repay me over a period of years. He paid back only a fraction, then stopped. I have no idea where he is now. I am really cautious with my money now.

Not every business will succeed or pay well, such as your parent's hot bread shop or your hot dog stand. But there are small business owners who do succeed
and love what they do. My boss for example. He used to run a motorcycle repair shop when he was younger and was able to fix a certain kind of part that
all other shops would replace. People from all over the country were shipping their broken part to him for repair, and he did very well. Later he bought an apartment building, and other commercial real estate. He and his brother became
the largest commercial real estate owners in the town. He worked other jobs such as construction, and eventually had an idea for a software product. He started this company and grew it over the last 10 years. His idea was a hit and is sold internationally. He owns two airplanes, motorcycles, and has done very well for himself. He once told me that he retired at 29, bought a huge house on a private island (I think) and lived there for 30 days. He got bored, sold it all and went back into business. He must be the type that loves to work.

A number of people in my family have started and successfully operate businesses. Grandpa owned a hotel, uncle runs a large textile embroydery shop,
aunt owns an antiques store, dad is the exclusive north american distributor for steam showers from a company in China, etc.. As far as I know they are are doing well.

I have seen small businesses from a different point of view. Those with good ideas (that people want), with a plan, and who know how to operate the business
CAN do well. I don't expect to start a successful software company without a plan. I have been preparing myself for this since I was 12. Every job I've had, every book I've read, every course I've taken, every conference I go to, etc... is all to ready myself for the day I'm ready. Who knows, the boss may want to retire one day and maybe I'll end up running the place.

Me. I open up a trading forum on the web with my
browser, find out which stocks are the most talked
about in the last 5 hrs and I run after them. http://www.hotcopper.com.au. Research is overrated.
Except when trading futures markets, which I typically
do well adhering to the insto's advice.

I think you have convinced me to focus my attention on stocks a lot more. My dad is always pushing me to be more active with my investments and I've always said that I don't have time to keep on top of the stock market like he does. Maybe it's not so time consuming after all.


Thanks,
Ryan




--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

I just wanted to say how much our long discussions reminds me of my very first days BBSing. It must have been around 1990-1992? My favorite BBS happened to be running Maximus. The guy owned a computer store and back then businesses had a BBS, not a website. In 1993 I wanted to start my own BBS, so he recommended Maximus. Big mistake for him, because I must have wasted hours of his time with questions about everything. I didn't even know how to extract ARJ files :)

Anyway, he was on FidoNet, and I spent countless hours reading echo's. One of the people I talked to the most was in Australia, like you. I don't remember what we talked about, but I do remember it would take 2 days for my messages to
get to him, and 2 days for his responses to come back. Back then packetmail was delivered overnight, and I guess it had to go through so many hubs before getting to Australia that it just took a long time.

Those were the days! BBSing was the most incredible thing to me, and that's why I keep mine around to this day.


Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Hi Ryan,

One of the people I talked to the
most was in Australia, like you. I don't remember
what we talked about, but I do remember it would take
2 days for my messages to get to him, and 2 days for
his responses to come back.

A 4 day round trip?... you were lucky. I remember 5 days each way (a 10 day round trip) from here (NZ) to Europe........;-)

Cheers...........pk.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Another Good Point About OS/2 (3:772/1.10)

It sounds like you've had better fortunes than me.

Except when trading futures markets, which I typically
do well adhering to the insto's advice.

I think you have convinced me to focus my attention on
stocks a lot more. My dad is always pushing me to be
more active with my investments and I've always said
that I don't have time to keep on top of the stock
market like he does. Maybe it's not so time consuming
after all.

Well I make it sound easy(ier).

You usually get out what you put in.

In economics there's this thing called Opportunity Cost. It means your resource
effectiveness and results diminishes when focusing on many different things simultaneously.

In reality, I divide my time between only two things:

1. Trades
2. Work

and don't preoccupy myself with anything else.

You have to pick and choose. It took you 10 years to become a good programmer, it'll take you 10 years to be as good a trader.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

Anyway, he was on FidoNet, and I spent countless hours
reading echo's. One of the people I talked to the
most was in Australia, like you. I don't remember
what we talked about, but I do remember it would take
2 days for my messages to get to him, and 2 days for
his responses to come back. Back then packetmail was

During that time I went to war on everybody. Couldn't help myself. They called my types trolls.

These days most Binkers poll every hour or something.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

A 4 day round trip?... you were lucky. I remember 5
days each way (a 10 day round trip) from here (NZ) to
Europe........;-)

OMG unbelievable! That must have been quite painful. Imagine businesses relied on email today that took 5 days to be delivered. You'd might as well write a letter on paper and mail it.


Ryan



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Sun 2007-04-15 05:14, Mvan Le (1:343/41) wrote to Ryan de Laplante:

These days most Binkers poll every hour or something.

Here, like most places now, all Fido mail is transferred over the Internet, so I have set cron to poll my uplinks every hour. My uplinks will usually poll me
when there's mail for me, though.

I imagine a similar situation once occurred (prior to the Internet) where "local" phone calls were free in some parts of the world, notably the US, although I never found out much about that. Are they still free?

(In Australian capital cities in the mid 1990s local calls were about 20 cents.
Local calls were untimed, with a radius of about 50 km.)

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

In economics there's this thing called Opportunity
Cost. It means your resource effectiveness and results
diminishes when focusing on many different things
simultaneously.

Wow, I have not studied economics but have experienced this first hand. When we
were a much smaller company we took on many jobs to stay alive. I used to be put on multiple projects simultaniously, and do technical support for a network
of about 50 computers in many remote offices. It often felt like very little progress was being made in anything I did. When I convinced my boss to let me work un-interrupted on a single project I couldn't believe how much work got done in just one week.

You have to pick and choose. It took you 10 years to
become a good programmer, it'll take you 10 years to be
as good a trader.

I can believe it. I better get started soon!


Thanks,
Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Sun 2007-04-15 09:01, Ryan de Laplante (1:229/1394) wrote to Peter Knapper:

A 4 day round trip?... you were lucky. I remember 5 days each way
(a 10 day round trip) from here (NZ) to Europe........;-)

OMG unbelievable! That must have been quite painful. Imagine
businesses relied on email today that took 5 days to be delivered.
You'd might as well write a letter on paper and mail it.

In the mid 90s it was more usual for FidoNet echomail to take a day or two to travel from the US to Australia, although sometimes it was hard to tell because
of time zones. Australian echomail hubs would usually only poll their US hub over dialup modem once every morning, although I think some polled twice a day.
Which reminds me, the lack of full routing information has always bothered me with FidoNet mail, but that's another rant that I probably started 15 years ago.

Interzone netmail reliability was always very hit-and-miss in my experience, unless you "crashed" it direct. Maybe this is less true now, but some sysops could be a bit lax on their netmail routing these days. Who knows. Most people using BinkP mailers should just be crashmailing each other now. Bit of a shame echomail can't be adapted to suit. Although, I have an idea... ;-)

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Mon 2007-04-16 02:40, andrew clarke (3:633/267) wrote to Ryan de Laplante:

In the mid 90s it was more usual for FidoNet echomail to take a day
or two to travel from the US to Australia, although sometimes it
was hard to tell because of time zones.

Back then it was basically impossible to know what time zone an echomail message was written in. Control lines like TZUTC were not very common. You just had to guess from the Origin line, which didn't always tell you their location, so then you had to do a nodelist lookup on their address! Too bad if
their mail got munged and the Origin line was missing, or the BBS you were using didn't show Origin lines, or their address was misconfigured.

It's this lack of foresight with regards to the technical specs that always makes me wonder how FidoNet ever worked. :-)

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

I imagine a similar situation once occurred (prior to
the Internet) where "local" phone calls were free in
some parts of the world, notably the US, although I
never found out much about that. Are they still free?

Dunno. I have a hard time believing in free anything, but if some fool offers I'll take it all :)

(In Australian capital cities in the mid 1990s local
calls were about 20 cents. Local calls were untimed,
with a radius of about 50 km.)

I heard they sent 1000 faxes of some guy's arse to Telstra in protest when they
proposed to hike charges on SysOps specifically.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

I imagine a similar situation once occurred (prior to
the Internet) where "local" phone calls were free in
some parts of the world, notably the US, although I
never found out much about that. Are they still free?

Dunno. I have a hard time believing in free anything,
but if some fool offers I'll take it all :)

I'm pretty sure it is the same in the US as it is in Canada, where I live. Here you pay a flat rate of $20/month for unlimited local calling. It has always been like that as far as I know. The $20 ends up costing more like $25 when you add 911 emergency fee and taxes. If you want caller id, voice mail, and other features those cost extra. They are priced rediculously, for example $7/month for caller id. You can usually get 2-3 features in a bundle for $12 though.

Things are changing now. Most if not all companies offer unlimited long distance calling if you call someone using the same provider. It doesn't matter if you are on a cell phone or land line. VoIP companies such as Vonage offer unlimited long distance in the US and Canada for a flat rate, like $29/month? I forget. Maybe it's a bit more.

Transferring echomail back and forth to your hub didn't cost anything if they were local. And their hub would be a local call for them, but not for you. And so on. Some hubs didn't have a local hub to call, so they had to dial long distance. As far as I know, every hub charged all nodes an anual fee.



Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Back then it was basically impossible to know what time
zone an echomail message was written in. Control lines
like TZUTC were not very common. You just had to guess
from the Origin line, which didn't always tell you
their location, so then you had to do a nodelist lookup
on their address! Too bad if their mail got munged and
the Origin line was missing, or the BBS you were using
didn't show Origin lines, or their address was
misconfigured.

I remember sometimes waiting more than 4 days for a response, so that must have
been a time zone issue. Australia is 12 hours ahead of me.

I always thought it was neat that fidonet is available on newsgroups, and some people have even made it available on the web. Every message we type on fido is searchable on google.


Ryan


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: The Dog House * Orillia ON Canada * bbs.doghousebbs.com (1:229/1394)

Andrew,

Are they still free?

Generally, yes. For example, here in the Atlanta Metro area, I have a
local calling area of nearly 100 square miles (if not more) over four
area codes. We do have to dial the area code first before we make a
call. Long distance is pretty cheap. I pay five cents a minute for LD
myself, but if I really wanted to, I can pay $40 a month and get
unlimited LD to US and Canada.

Later,
Sean
___
X SLMR 2.1a X Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)

Sun 2007-04-15 17:55, Ryan de Laplante (1:229/1394) wrote to Andrew Clarke:

I always thought it was neat that fidonet is available on
newsgroups, and some people have even made it available on the
web. Every message we type on fido is searchable on google.

:-) For a few years I had a few hundred echos available for viewing on the web. Recently though the server it was hosted on was decommissioned. I'm still working on sorting out a replacement...

-- mail@ozzmosis.com

--- timEd/FreeBSD 1.11.b2
* Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)

Re: mail delays
By: andrew clarke to Ryan de Laplante on Tue Apr 17 2007 09:39 pm

Sun 2007-04-15 17:55, Ryan de Laplante (1:229/1394) wrote to Andrew Clarke:

I always thought it was neat that fidonet is available on
newsgroups, and some people have even made it available on the
web. Every message we type on fido is searchable on google.

:-) For a few years I had a few hundred echos available for viewing on the web. Recently though the server it was hosted on was decommissioned. I'm still working on sorting out a replacement...

They're available on the web via most Synchronet BBSes. e.g. http://vert.synchro.net/msgs/subs.ssjs?msg_grp=FidoNet

digital man (xbox-live: digitlman)

Snapple "Real Fact" #176:
The first bike was called a hobbyhorse.
Norco, CA WX: 77.9°F, 36% humidity, 0 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

I always thought it was neat that fidonet is available on
newsgroups, and some people have even made it available on the
web. Every message we type on fido is searchable on google.

:-) For a few years I had a few hundred echos
available for viewing on the web. Recently though the
server it was hosted on was decommissioned. I'm still
working on sorting out a replacement...

I've been wondering where sensationcontent.com went.

It just disappeared one day.

I wanted to read MUFFIN from way back for kicks.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Top Hat 2 BBS (1:343/41)

Hello Mvan.

12 Apr 07 08:07, you wrote to me:

[...]

Yes ... , this is Africa

Hey Russ,

So what BBS software are they using over there in Africa ? I'm picturing this primitive 3rd world society. I hear there's a white vs. black African racism issue. I was shocked, when I learned about "white" Africans on Tv.

Do people use the internet or Fidonet more ?

Do they know what Warcraft is ?

Are there roads in Africa ?

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: <Xaragmata>< - Adelaide, Australia +61-8-8351-7637 (3:800/432)

Hello Mvan.

20 Apr 07 19:12, you wrote to me:

[...]

Yes ... , this is Africa

Hey Russ,

So what BBS software are they using over there in Africa ? I'm
picturing this primitive 3rd world society. I hear there's a white vs. black African racism issue. I was shocked, when I learned about
"white" Africans on Tv.

Well, there exist a smallish first world segment, a lot larger (second world) (?) segment, and an even larger third world segment ...

They used mainly RA, Maximus, and then myself use MBSE BBS (Linux), and the only remaining large system I am aware off, runs a modified ifmail system, no BBS as such - mail only ... , their are racism issues, and the most racist are the blacks themselves, but then they have their own definition of racism ... :-(( , simply put, if it is not on their agenda, then it is racist, they are still blaming the old regime, for their lack of ability to deliver on their election promises 13 years after those promises where made etc. Credibilty, has no meaning to most of them ... <sigh> ... but that is all another story for another day ...

Do people use the internet or Fidonet more ?

Well internet access has improved over the last 5 years or so, and most people have forggoten FTN technology, except a number of "medical" networks that still operate using FTN Technology networks ...

Do they know what Warcraft is ?

Yes, I play a little online Counter-Strike Source time to time ... :-)

Are there roads in Africa ?

Yes, tho their condition has be deteriating steadly the last 12-15 years ... :-((

Russell

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
* Origin: Rusty's BBS - Bloemfontein, Free State, South Africa (5:7105/1)