• 2022 FTSC Standing Member Election - Call for Votes

    From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to All on Thu Feb 24 01:03:25 2022
    2022 FTSC standing member election, call for votes
    ==================================================

    Voting for FTSC standing members commences on Sunday, 27 February,
    2022, 20:00 UTC.

    All RCs are entitled to vote. Each voter may cast one "yes"
    or one "no" vote for each candidate. Voters need not vote for all can-
    didates, a non vote will be regarded as "abstain" for that candidate. Candidates must receive more "yes" than "no" votes to be elected.

    Although not required, voters are encouraged to consult their
    constituency before casting their votes. Debate with the candidates
    is also encouraged. No need to hurry.

    Voting ends on Sunday, 20 March 2022, 20:00 UTC.

    The status of RC's will be determined by nodelist.028 of this year
    by the list as issued by the ZC in the zone where they reside.

    This is the list of nominees.

    Candidate Node nr. Nmntd by Accepted
    Rob Swindell 1:103/705 ZCC(NC) Yes
    James Coyle 1:129/215 ZCC(NC) Yes
    Tim Schattkowsky 2:2/29 ZCC(NC) Yes

    Voters are requested to copy and paste the form below, mark a
    cross for each candidate in the "yes" or the "no" column for all
    candidates they wish to cast a vote for and post it in FTSC_PUBLIC
    addressed to "Election Coordinator with a subject of "Vote".


    Once again, voters need not vote for all candidates.


    ----------------------------------------------
    | Name | Node nr | Yes| No |
    |----------------------|-------------|----|----|
    | | | | |
    | Rob Swindell | 1:103/705 | | |
    | James Coyle | 1:129/215 | | |
    | Tim Schattkowsky | 2:2/29 | | |
    ----------------------------------------------

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Marc Lewis@1:396/45 to Andrew Leary on Tue Mar 1 15:40:13 2022
    ----------------------------------------------
    | Name | Node nr | Yes| No |
    |----------------------|-------------|----|----|
    | | | | |
    | Rob Swindell | 1:103/705 | x | |
    | James Coyle | 1:129/215 | x | |
    | Tim Schattkowsky | 2:2/29 | x | |
    ----------------------------------------------

    Best regards,
    Marc Lewis
    R19C

    --- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Sursum Corda! BBS-Huntsville,AL-bbs.sursum-corda.com (1:396/45)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Marc Lewis on Tue Mar 1 19:39:10 2022
    Hello Marc!

    01 Mar 22 15:40, you wrote to me:

    ----------------------------------------------
    | Name | Node nr | Yes| No |
    |----------------------|-------------|----|----|
    | | | | |
    | Rob Swindell | 1:103/705 | x | |
    | James Coyle | 1:129/215 | x | |
    | Tim Schattkowsky | 2:2/29 | x | |
    ----------------------------------------------

    ACK.

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Andrew Leary on Fri Mar 4 03:00:21 2022
    And this was not worthy of an article in our common ezine, even though I made it extremely easy for you to publish it?

    Duly noted...



    Andrew Leary -> All skrev 2022-02-24 07:03:
    2022 FTSC standing member election, call for votes ==================================================

    Voting for FTSC standing members commences on Sunday, 27 February,
    2022, 20:00 UTC.

    All RCs are entitled to vote. Each voter may cast one "yes"
    or one "no" vote for each candidate. Voters need not vote for all can- didates, a non vote will be regarded as "abstain" for that candidate. Candidates must receive more "yes" than "no" votes to be elected.

    Although not required, voters are encouraged to consult their
    constituency before casting their votes. Debate with the candidates
    is also encouraged. No need to hurry.

    Voting ends on Sunday, 20 March 2022, 20:00 UTC.

    The status of RC's will be determined by nodelist.028 of this year
    by the list as issued by the ZC in the zone where they reside.

    This is the list of nominees.

    Candidate Node nr. Nmntd by Accepted
    Rob Swindell 1:103/705 ZCC(NC) Yes
    James Coyle 1:129/215 ZCC(NC) Yes
    Tim Schattkowsky 2:2/29 ZCC(NC) Yes

    Voters are requested to copy and paste the form below, mark a
    cross for each candidate in the "yes" or the "no" column for all candidates they wish to cast a vote for and post it in FTSC_PUBLIC addressed to "Election Coordinator with a subject of "Vote".


    Once again, voters need not vote for all candidates.


    ----------------------------------------------
    | Name | Node nr | Yes| No | |----------------------|-------------|----|----|
    | | | | |
    | Rob Swindell | 1:103/705 | | |
    | James Coyle | 1:129/215 | | |
    | Tim Schattkowsky | 2:2/29 | | | ----------------------------------------------

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)


    --




    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Andrew Leary on Fri Mar 18 03:29:24 2022
    Although not required, voters are encouraged to consult their
    constituency before casting their votes. Debate with the candidates
    is also encouraged. No need to hurry.

    Now, three weeks after the voting started, I cannot but wondering how some RCs can vote only a few days after the voting started.

    The reason only RCs can vote, is of course because if every nodelisted sysop was allowed to vote, it would be impossible to handle still today (and imagine when we had more than 30k sysops). So obviously the RCs are expected to count all the votes from all the sysops in their region, and then vote accordingly.

    But during at least the last two decades there's been a lot of RCs that vote on their own, without bothering to consult their "constituency". You know what, that smells like dictatorship to me...

    Just saying. The vote from R20 will be placed tomorrow. One day short just to make sure it'll be received properly.


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Björn Felten on Fri Mar 18 00:12:54 2022
    Hello Björn!

    18 Mar 22 03:29, you wrote to me:

    Although not required, voters are encouraged to consult their
    constituency before casting their votes. Debate with the
    candidates is also encouraged. No need to hurry.

    Now, three weeks after the voting started, I cannot but wondering
    how some RCs can vote only a few days after the voting started.

    The reason only RCs can vote, is of course because if every
    nodelisted sysop was allowed to vote, it would be impossible to handle still today (and imagine when we had more than 30k sysops). So
    obviously the RCs are expected to count all the votes from all the
    sysops in their region, and then vote accordingly.

    But during at least the last two decades there's been a lot of RCs
    that vote on their own, without bothering to consult their
    "constituency". You know what, that smells like dictatorship to me...

    In some cases, they may have asked for input from the nodes of their region and not received any. I'm still waiting to see if anyone in R16 is going to respond to my request for input on the candidates.

    Just saying. The vote from R20 will be placed tomorrow. One day
    short just to make sure it'll be received properly.

    I'll be looking for it.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Fri Mar 18 09:25:21 2022
    But during at least the last two decades there's been a lot of RCs
    that vote on their own, without bothering to consult their
    "constituency". You know what, that smells like dictatorship to me...

    Dictators are about politics ... you cannot accuse the FTSC of being a political institution. Besides, RCs are only just nodelist scribes ...

    I know for a fact that the election was discussed in the R29 sysop echo with most participating and I'm certain the same has occured, or is still occuring, in R28 resulting in a vote or no vote. We know for certain that there is a region where all sysops participated in the vote.

    Other than that, you can also be upset about the fact that some RCs don't even know what they're voting for, a concern aggravated even by the fact they're a ZC.

    Plus how would you feel about a region like R92 with just one sysop carrying as much weight as the whole of R50 ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 10:27:58 2022
    Plus how would you feel about a region like R92 with just one sysop carrying as much weight as the whole of R50 ...

    The same as I would feel like if countries like Malta (pop: 441,543) and Germany (pop: 83,783,942) both were allowed to send exactly two representatives to the EU Parliament.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Fernando Toledo@4:902/26 to Bjrn Felten on Fri Mar 18 10:00:05 2022
    El 17/3/22 a las 23:29, Bj�rn Felten escribió:
    AL> Although not required, voters are encouraged to consult their
    AL> constituency before casting their votes. Debate with the candidates
    AL> is also encouraged. No need to hurry.

    Now, three weeks after the voting started, I cannot but wondering how some RCs can vote only a few days after the voting started.

    The reason only RCs can vote, is of course because if every nodelisted sysop was allowed to vote, it would be impossible to handle still today (and imagine when we had more than 30k sysops). So obviously the RCs are expected to count all the votes from all the sysops in their region, and then vote accordingly.

    But during at least the last two decades there's been a lot of RCs that vote on their own, without bothering to consult their "constituency". You know what, that smells like dictatorship to me...

    Just saying. The vote from R20 will be placed tomorrow. One day short just to make sure it'll be received properly.


    I agree, I am sysop on z4 and we have not been consulted to generate the
    vote =|

    Saludos!
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Dock Sud BBS - http://bbs.docksud.com.ar (4:902/26)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Fernando Toledo on Fri Mar 18 15:00:12 2022
    Fernando,

    I agree, I am sysop on z4 and we have not been consulted to generate the vote =|

    Talk to your RC...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 10:14:26 2022
    Besides, RCs are only just nodelist scribes ...

    What the f--SHAME on you, Ward! SHAME! \(@_@)/

    You, who are so very proud of your position as a *C, would be dismissive of other controllers? You shameful hypocrite! Hang your head and hide your face!

    Okay, rant over (for now). Sorry. (-_-)

    I know for a fact that the election was discussed in the R29 sysop echo with most participating and I'm certain the same has occured, or is
    still occuring, in R28 resulting in a vote or no vote. We know for
    certain that there is a region where all sysops participated in the vote.

    We also know for certain that there are regions where many SysOps did not participate. In mine, there were less than a handful of interested parties.
    And I have no doubt that this isn't restricted to any one zone. It's the
    nature of any election, really; some people simply don't care.

    Other than that, you can also be upset about the fact that some RCs
    don't even know what they're voting for, a concern aggravated even by
    the fact they're a ZC.

    I'm currently still upset about the ZCC/IC being so dismissive toward the people he should be listening to intently. (o_O) One can safely assume that most (not necessarily *all*) RCs take their role as seriously as you take yours.

    If you show no respect to people, don't insist that those same people show you respect. That's *not* how it works.

    Apologies for my aggressive attitude. It seems warranted, from my eyes.

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 10:16:26 2022
    Plus how would you feel about a region like R92 with just one sysop carrying as
    much weight as the whole of R50 ...

    Is this where you start insisting that some regions' votes are 'more
    important' than others? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that didn't end well the last time you brought it up.

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Shaun Buzza on Fri Mar 18 17:19:07 2022
    Is this where you start insisting that some regions' votes are 'more important' than others? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that didn't end well the last time you brought it up.

    It worked pretty well last time it was brought up.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 16:34:48 2022
    Is this where you start insisting that some regions' votes are 'more important' than others? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that didn't end w the last time you brought it up.

    It worked pretty well last time it was brought up.

    It's hard to explain blue to a blind man, or music to a deaf one. And I believe it would be just as hard to explain humility to you, sir.

    For the record, it didn't work as well as you seem to think. I believe "shit storm" is an appropriate description? (o_O)

    Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I can't do my research...

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Shaun Buzza on Sat Mar 19 00:22:28 2022
    It worked pretty well last time it was brought up.

    It's hard to explain blue to a blind man, or music to a deaf one. And I believe it would be just as hard to explain humility to you, sir.

    For starters, here's law #8 for you:

    "Never think you know a person from conducting on-line discussions. You
    need to break bread with that person first, have a coffee, get drunk
    together and keep eachother from crashing to the floor in eachother's
    vomit. Having sex may be a bonus."

    What do you know about me, Shaun, to come to such conclusions? What do you "really" know? Not rumour, not gossip, but "fact" ...

    For the record, it didn't work as well as you seem to think. I believe "shit storm" is an appropriate description? (o_O)

    Please explain to me what you think you did research ... what you think you discovered ... and if there is at least one single credible source to back that up ... not counting rumour and gossip that is ...

    Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I can't do my research...

    Indeed, you can do your research, so maybe now is a good time to start.

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 20:08:24 2022
    For starters, here's law #8 for you:

    "Never think you know a person from conducting on-line discussions. You need to break bread with that person first, have a coffee, get drunk
    together and keep eachother from crashing to the floor in eachother's vomit. Having sex may be a bonus."

    What do you know about me, Shaun, to come to such conclusions? What do
    you "really" know? Not rumour, not gossip, but "fact" ...

    Well...I know not to be the first guy to pass out at one of your parties,
    now! No bonus sex for me, thank you very much! (o_-)

    I have yet to come to any conclusions, as my research is ongoing. I know only what I have seen of you, as always.

    Please explain to me what you think you did research ... what you think you discovered ... and if there is at least one single credible source
    to back that up ... not counting rumour and gossip that is ...

    Sir, do you honestly believe that there is not a single BBS out there that mantains message bases that go back effectively forever? Rumour and gossip and hearsay have no place in proper research. Neither does asking for my conclusions or sources before I have completed.

    There is no external influence on my opinions. I am forming my own from the information I find on my own. Others, such as Nick in this very echo, have provided their own opinions for me to compare mine against, but I wouldn't
    call that rumour and gossip. It is merely discussion.

    Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I can't do my research...

    Indeed, you can do your research, so maybe now is a good time to start.

    I had started on our very first interaction, and continue adding to it with each new message. I have also taken the time to check out past historical records.

    Just because I'm griping at you does not mean I have completed my research,
    nor come to a conclusion. I am simply...adding to my availiable information.

    Think of it as a rather lengthy process. (^_^)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Shaun Buzza on Sat Mar 19 01:29:40 2022
    Sir, do you honestly believe that there is not a single BBS out there
    that mantains message bases that go back effectively forever?

    Do you have relatives in the Netherlands?

    There is no external influence on my opinions. I am forming my own from
    the information I find on my own.

    Here's law #6 for you ...

    "If a person needs several paragraphs to say something basic, it's
    nonsense or a lie ... unless you happen to be Jane Austen or Vera
    Brittain, then it's like poetry"

    You use too many words to say something easy, and you're not Jane Austen nor Very Brittain.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 20:58:23 2022
    Sir, do you honestly believe that there is not a single BBS out there that mantains message bases that go back effectively forever?

    Do you have relatives in the Netherlands?

    No, not that I'm aware of, anyway...how is that, uh, related?

    Here's law #6 for you ...

    "If a person needs several paragraphs to say something basic, it's
    nonsense or a lie ... unless you happen to be Jane Austen or Vera
    Brittain, then it's like poetry"

    You use too many words to say something easy, and you're not Jane Austen nor Very Brittain.

    *I* use too many words? (o_O)

    That entire clip could have been summed up in *four*:
    "You talk too much!" (o_-)

    Eventually, we'll get used to each other's humour and mannerisms. This will help a lot. Or we'll end up blocking each other. This will not help at all.

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Shaun Buzza on Sat Mar 19 08:23:29 2022
    Sir, do you honestly believe that there is not a single BBS out
    there
    that mantains message bases that go back effectively forever?

    Do you have relatives in the Netherlands?

    No, not that I'm aware of, anyway...how is that, uh, related?

    Because people in the Netherlands have a tendency of explaining stuff most everybody already knows. It's one of many "Ward-isms" developed over the years ...

    Or we'll end up blocking each other.

    I never block someone. BTW, you're getting into the law #18 zone ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Sat Mar 19 12:26:52 2022
    Because people in the Netherlands have a tendency of explaining stuff
    most everybody already knows. It's one of many "Ward-isms" developed
    over the years ...

    I never block someone. BTW, you're getting into the law #18 zone ...

    You really do need to publish these "Ward-isms"! (^_^)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Shaun Buzza on Sat Mar 19 22:45:50 2022
    I never block someone. BTW, you're getting into the law #18 zone ...

    You really do need to publish these "Ward-isms"! (^_^)

    You need to make-up your mind ..... what do you want? The "isms" or the "laws"?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Shaun Buzza@1:229/110 to Ward Dossche on Sat Mar 19 18:14:02 2022
    You really do need to publish these "Ward-isms"! (^_^)

    You need to make-up your mind ..... what do you want? The "isms" or the "laws"?

    The...uhhh...law-isms? Wait, you have *two* lists? (o_O)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (1:229/110)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Björn Felten on Sun Mar 20 13:30:00 2022
    Good ${greeting_time}, Björn!

    18 Mar 2022 03:29:24, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

    Although not required, voters are encouraged to consult their
    constituency before casting their votes. Debate with the candidates
    is also encouraged. No need to hurry.
    Now, three weeks after the voting started, I cannot but wondering
    how some RCs can vote only a few days after the voting started.
    The reason only RCs can vote, is of course because if every nodelisted sysop was allowed to vote, it would be impossible to handle still
    today (and imagine when we had more than 30k sysops).

    Now the number of nodelisted sysops is just a little more than a thousand. Collecting the votes from 20 or more (typical number of nodes in a network) normally implies running some robot to receive and count votes, sending the acknowledgements, publishing the statistics on how many votes were processed (without intermediate results, of course) and perform other necessary tasks. Obviously enough, processing 20 or 1000 (or ever 30k) votes doesn't make much difference for a robot - so getting the votes from all sysops is not really a problem.

    Why this is not used, is another question. Very interesting one, I'd say.

    So obviously the RCs are expected to count all the votes from all the sysops in their region, and then vote accordingly.

    Or consult with sysops actively involved in software development. Or whatever.

    But during at least the last two decades there's been a lot of RCs
    that vote on their own, without bothering to consult their
    "constituency". You know what, that smells like dictatorship to me...

    Yes, these votes may be voluntaristic. Or may be not, if the sysops of those regions really trust their RCs and delegate them the right to vote.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Shaun Buzza on Sun Mar 20 13:06:11 2022
    The...uhhh...law-isms? Wait, you have *two* lists? (o_O)

    Yups ...

    --- DB4 - 20220222
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Shaun Buzza on Mon Mar 21 17:37:41 2022
    Re: Re: 2022 FTSC Standing Member Election - Call for Votes
    By: Shaun Buzza to Ward Dossche on Fri Mar 18 2022 08:08 pm

    For starters, here's law #8 for you:

    "Never think you know a person from conducting on-line discussions You need to break bread with that person first, have a coffee, get drun
    together and keep eachother from crashing to the floor in eachother's vomit. Having sex may be a bonus."

    What do you know about me, Shaun, to come to such conclusions? What do you "really" know? Not rumour, not gossip, but "fact" ...

    Well...I know not to be the first guy to pass out at one of your parties, now! No bonus sex for me, thank you very much! (o_-)

    I have yet to come to any conclusions, as my research is ongoing. I know onl what I have seen of you, as always.

    Please explain to me what you think you did research ... what you think you discovered ... and if there is at least one single credible source to back that up ... not counting rumour and gossip that is ...

    Sir, do you honestly believe that there is not a single BBS out there that mantains message bases that go back effectively forever? Rumour and gossip a hearsay have no place in proper research. Neither does asking for my conclusions or sources before I have completed.

    There is no external influence on my opinions. I am forming my own from the information I find on my own. Others, such as Nick in this very echo, have provided their own opinions for me to compare mine against, but I wouldn't call that rumour and gossip. It is merely discussion.

    Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I can't do my research...

    Indeed, you can do your research, so maybe now is a good time to start.

    I had started on our very first interaction, and continue adding to it with each new message. I have also taken the time to check out past historical records.

    Just because I'm griping at you does not mean I have completed my research, nor come to a conclusion. I am simply...adding to my availiable information.

    Think of it as a rather lengthy process. (^_^)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net


    Grin, then add this to your data search. Ward and I are friends. THat doesn't mean every message you will find makes it seem so, but that is the reality.

    I'm not afraid to take him to task if I think he's wrong, nor him me, but we understand one another and would love to have a beer together! Unfortunately I can't offer more than common dives for bars, as that's where Don goes so all I know here, but hey... He'd probably laugh after dissing my miller lite and the other choices then select a reasonably decent scotch.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)