• 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations

    From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to All on Tue Feb 2 02:33:28 2021
    Hello everybody!

    The following members' terms expire on 11 Mar 2021:

    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    Of these, mark lewis, Richard Menedetter, and Carol Shenkenberger have already expressed interest in another term.

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Andrew Leary on Tue Feb 2 09:07:04 2021
    On 02 Feb 21 02:33:28, Andrew Leary said the following to All:

    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I'll stick around for another term if possible.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dallas Hinton@1:153/7715 to Andrew Leary on Tue Feb 2 20:05:01 2021
    Hi, Andrew -- on Feb 02 2021 at 02:33, you wrote:


    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I will nominate all of these people (if I'm allowed nominate more than 1).


    Cheers... Dallas
    RC17

    --- timEd/NT 1.30+
    * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dallas Hinton on Wed Feb 3 09:44:15 2021
    Dallas,

    I will nominate all of these people (if I'm allowed nominate more than
    1).

    I would think that to be grossly inappropriate.

    As far as I know only 3, so far, have expressed a willingness to continue.

    During the last election someone also added names just to get the required number and then RCs giving a blind vote for everyone.

    Have you contacted "any" of these people prior? No? Then please don't nominate who hasn't expressly consented to running in this election.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Dec.21 2020
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to All on Wed Feb 3 08:02:57 2021
    On 02 Feb 21 02:33:28, Andrew Leary said the following to All:

    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362

    He has emailed me with a desire to remain, if that is possible. I strongly recommend RC's nominate him as I have seen his work firsthand, and he had a terrific idea for a "roadmap" to assist new Fido developers get their feet
    wet. He is able to actually contribute something technically.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Nick Andre on Wed Feb 3 16:36:36 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, Nick!

    03 Feb 2021 08:02:56, you wrote to All:

    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    He has emailed me with a desire to remain, if that is possible.
    I strongly recommend RC's nominate him as I have seen his work
    firsthand, and he had a terrific idea for a "roadmap" to assist
    new Fido developers get their feet wet. He is able to actually
    contribute something technically.

    Actually, we don't need people who are _able_ to contribute "something technically"... Instead, we need people who _do_ contribute.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alexey Vissarionov on Wed Feb 3 08:20:00 2021
    Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Actually, we don't need people who are _able_ to contribute
    "something technically"... Instead, we need people who _do_
    contribute.

    Damn good point.

    "Good intentions" accomplish.............. nothing.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alexey Vissarionov on Wed Feb 3 11:26:28 2021
    On 03 Feb 21 16:36:36, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Nick Andre:

    Actually, we don't need people who are _able_ to contribute "something technically"... Instead, we need people who _do_ contribute.


    Great, lets give him the chance...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Ward Dossche on Wed Feb 3 12:55:07 2021
    Hello Ward!

    03 Feb 21 09:44, you wrote to Dallas Hinton:

    I will nominate all of these people (if I'm allowed nominate more
    than 1).

    I would think that to be grossly inappropriate.

    As far as I know only 3, so far, have expressed a willingness to
    continue.

    I have now also received word that Nick Andre is willing to accept another term. I am also willing to do so, should the RCs see fit to nominate/elect me.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nick Andre on Thu Feb 4 17:08:01 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Nick Andre to Andrew Leary on Tue Feb 02 2021 09:07 am

    On 02 Feb 21 02:33:28, Andrew Leary said the following to All:

    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I'll stick around for another term if possible.

    Nick


    Now we need an RC to do the honors (grin, should be easy).

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Dallas Hinton on Thu Feb 4 17:12:04 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Dallas Hinton to Andrew Leary on Tue Feb 02 2021 08:05 pm

    Hi, Andrew -- on Feb 02 2021 at 02:33, you wrote:


    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I will nominate all of these people (if I'm allowed nominate more than 1).


    Cheers... Dallas
    RC17


    I think it's allowed! I know you aren't limited to just 1.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Carol Shenkenberger on Thu Feb 4 20:56:00 2021
    Hello Carol!

    ** On Thursday 04.02.21 - 17:12, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dallas Hinton:

    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    What exactly have these people done wrt the FTSC activity since
    the last elections?

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to August Abolins on Fri Feb 5 07:40:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, August!

    04 Feb 2021 20:56:00, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426
    ^^^^^^^
    Please fix the quoting.

    What exactly have these people done wrt the FTSC activity since
    the last elections?

    Well, let's see...

    1. Andrew Leary
    Served as an administrator, participated in most discussions (there were not really much of them, however).

    2. mark lewis
    Nothing, except chattering out technical discussions.

    3. Richard Menedetter
    Participated in some discussions.

    4. Carol Shenkenberger
    Nothing.

    5. Ozz Nixon
    Participated in one discussion about his 20+ years old software, found some typos in the existing documents, then disappeared.

    6. Nick Andre
    Nothing.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alexey Vissarionov on Fri Feb 5 03:13:20 2021
    On 05 Feb 21 07:40:00, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to August Abolins

    6. Nick Andre
    Nothing.

    I'd rather engage in nothing but being on stand-by for tech chat, than your lovely message thread in FTSC once upon a time about Tom Jennings being a "faggot". You were called out on this by several and I seem to recall you quickly retreated to the field of crickets chirping.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Carol Shenkenberger on Fri Feb 5 14:19:23 2021
    Carol,

    I think it's allowed! I know you aren't limited to just 1.

    Without asking the individuals what their intentions are?

    C'mon Carol, the FTSC is dead. This election can go forward and if it is succesful, then this body of people will either again do as good as nothing and/or is composed of people without the desired background.

    What is needed is more developers developing exciting new stuff which can then be documented. As it is other than checking punctuqtion, there's nothing to do.

    I think the elements raised above were also raised the last 2-3 elections
    with nothing happening.

    But ... please dream on.

    Have a good week-end.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Dec.21 2020
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Ward Dossche on Fri Feb 5 23:04:40 2021
    Hi, Ward!

    05 ΣÑó 21 14:19, Ward Dossche -> Carol Shenkenberger:

    But ... please dream on.

    Have a good week-end.

    That's what you say very, very well. Today it is a completely dead structure that does nothing. All their recent activity is a big fart into a puddle...

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ô «ñ¡¿σ ½εñÑ⌐, »«½πΦáα¿∩ »α¿¬αδóáεΓß∩ ¬«ßΓ∩¼¿ τÑαÑ»á, π ñαπú¿σ - ΦΓá¡á¼¿.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to August Abolins on Sat Feb 6 14:19:12 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: August Abolins to Carol Shenkenberger on Thu Feb 04 2021 08:56 pm

    Hello Carol!

    ** On Thursday 04.02.21 - 17:12, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dallas Hinton:

    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    What exactly have these people done wrt the FTSC activity since
    the last elections?

    --
    ../|ug


    There hasn't been much going on be a couple of us have been helping folks understand how the standards got in place and how proposals work.

    There are 2 in possible view in the not too distant future. One from Maurice on datestamps that may morf a bit to become msg-id area (not clear to me on where he's taking it but he's looking at the next Y2K type event) and you and Stas with Telegram working off smartphone/Notepads (assume I got that right).

    Ozz has been developing a BBS with embedded mailer/tosser from what I can tell. In fact, I need to finish a project of my own then see if he wants to be added to the credits. He found a bit of my old nodelist FAQ (I recognize my own wording) and made some edits to it (jarring in style but not incorrect, just changes). I suspect Richard Menedetter will find this one up his ally and find what I am missing. Andrew is doing his best as coordinator but with little material to coordinate and Nick is new enough, nothing has really happened but he devlops a major mailer.

    I think all are valid. I can't think who to suggest might want to join the FTSC but Stas might want to or you?

    I have one other thought. If no one screams too hard, maybe we can mix the renewal election dates a bit so it's not so lop-sided? Just adjust some to further out. We've done that before. Twice that I know of.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sat Feb 6 14:26:38 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Stas Mishchenkov to Ward Dossche on Fri Feb 05 2021 11:04 pm

    Hi, Ward!

    05 䥢 21 14:19, Ward Dossche -> Carol Shenkenberger:

    But ... please dream on.

    Have a good week-end.

    That's what you say very, very well. Today it is a completely dead structure that does nothing. All their recent activity is a big fart into a puddle...

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.


    Hey Stas, want to fart in a puddle with me?

    Ok, joking aside, once you expand Telegram to delivery from 3 or more sites, when would a flag be appropriate in your view for folks to reach out easier for a link? I know you are not there yet (still developing) but does it sound like a need later down the road?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Nick Andre on Sun Feb 7 02:20:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, Nick!

    05 Feb 2021 03:13:20, you wrote to me:

    6. Nick Andre
    Nothing.
    I'd rather engage in nothing but being on stand-by for tech chat,
    than your lovely message thread in FTSC once upon a time about Tom Jennings being a "faggot".

    Are you envied?

    You were called out on this by several and I seem to recall you
    quickly retreated to the field of crickets chirping.

    Besides of disclosing the message posted in a private FTSC echoarea (and cherry-picking it out of the thread, of course), you are missing one very important point: TJ had done something for the Fidonet, while you had done nothing, and even hurt a little.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sat Feb 6 23:08:25 2021
    On 07 Feb 21 02:20:00, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Nick Andre:

    Besides of disclosing the message posted in a private FTSC echoarea (and cherry-picking it out of the thread, of course), you are missing one very important point: TJ had done something for the Fidonet, while you had done nothing, and even hurt a little.

    LOL, it wasn't from a "private" echoarea, it was all from here.

    I'll be sure to re-post this every time you run your mouth at election
    time about who contributes what. You sure gave all of us yours...

    Date: 8:19 pm Sat Nov 10, 2018 Number : 6284 of 7936
    From: Alexey Vissarionov Base : Fidonet/FTSC_PUBLIC
    To : Ward Dossche Refer #: None
    Subj: FTS-1 and FTS-4 Replies: None
    Stat: Sent Origin : 11 Nov 18 03:14:16

    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    11 Nov 2018 00:01:18, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Do you care of those faggots?

    Let's do it ... :-)

    ... and do that so that they would die in agony of envy :-)


    Your words, not mine. And heres another little gem amongst some of the flamage you received from other developers:

    Date: 6:36 am Mon Nov 12, 2018 Number : 6309 of 7937
    From: Alexey Vissarionov Base : Fidonet/FTSC_PUBLIC
    To : Rob Swindell Refer #: None
    Subj: FTS-1 and FTS-4 Replies: None
    Stat: Sent Origin : 12 Nov 18 14:27:14

    Good ${greeting_time}, Rob!

    11 Nov 2018 14:36:58, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.
    Do you care of those faggots?
    Here in America, that's a pretty derogatory description to assign to someone. I don't care whether they are homosexual or not, but I don't think that disparagement is justified. :-(

    People who threaten to sue others for "copyright infringement" (whatever that could mean) deserve even more derogatory words. Alas, my English is not that good, and I don't know these words.

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.


    .........

    Ahh yes, fantastic "contributions" from you and the classic "my English is not good" card others have pulled in the past when going down in flames. Yet you seem to articulate yourself extremely well when it comes to shoving your tech proposals down someone's throat or how much you hate America or anyone who is not a super Linux hacker in a hooded sweater listening to techno music.

    Perhaps you should brush up on interaction-skills-101 before attempting to contribute anything else to that magical planet of human beings let alone attempting to engage in penis comparison contest.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 7 00:00:00 2021
    Hello Carol,

    On Sat Feb 06 2021 14:19:12, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to August Abolins:

    There hasn't been much going on be a couple of us have been helping
    folks understand how the standards got in place and how proposals
    work.

    That has nothing to do with the FTSC.

    There are 2 in possible view in the not too distant future. One from Maurice on datestamps that may morf a bit to become msg-id area (not
    clear to me on where he's taking it but he's looking at the next Y2K

    Nothing has been drafted. Maybe another proposal, but can not be turned into a standard for another million years.

    type event) and you and Stas with Telegram working off
    smartphone/Notepads (assume I got that right).

    Again, something has to be drafted, and in this case.. can it be? Another protocol/service is being used to "gate" into Fidonet.

    Ozz has been developing a BBS with embedded mailer/tosser from what I
    can tell.

    Based off current standards and proposals, more than likely. If anything new is made, show the FTSC so they can document it.

    and Nick is new enough, nothing has really happened but he devlops a
    major mailer.

    Nick as in Nick Andre? New Enough? Do you live in space?

    I have one other thought. If no one screams too hard, maybe we can
    mix the renewal election dates a bit so it's not so lop-sided? Just adjust some to further out. We've done that before. Twice that I
    know of.

    We basically have to support what's left, because by definition if we don't have 7? members, the FTSC is null and void.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 7 00:11:28 2021
    Hello Alexey,

    On Sun Feb 07 2021 02:20:00, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Nick Andre:

    Besides of disclosing the message posted in a private FTSC echoarea
    (and cherry-picking it out of the thread, of course), you are missing
    one very important point: TJ had done something for the Fidonet, while
    you had done nothing, and even hurt a little.

    But... The more shit talking and trolling you accomplish, the less you actually do in regards to Fidonet.

    I've seen you do some great things for this network. But, when you resort to trolling and well, a couple of years of not doing a damn thing yourself since the FTSC has been dead as a doornail since I gave up on it.. The respect diminishes quickly.

    Work together, for fuck's sake.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 7 18:42:04 2021
    Hi, Carol!

    06 ΣÑó 21 14:26, Carol Shenkenberger -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Hey Stas, want to fart in a puddle with me?

    Why not? ;)

    Ok, joking aside, once you expand Telegram to delivery from 3 or more sites, when would a flag be appropriate in your view for folks to reach out easier for a link? I know you are not there yet (still developing) but does it sound like a need later down the road?

    For now the Talegram_BBS is so far from the moment when it can be runned by othe nodes.

    Meanwhile, I have some other ideas that I have implemented on my node and it would be very easy to implement them on others. This would be especially easy if will properly documented by the FTSC. However, to date, the PKT and MSG standard is still documented in FTS-0001, which is now practically not used by anyone and the widely used corresponding formats are not documented. Does it make sense to offer something new?

    Yes, I know there is now a very important new flag BEER in the nodelist. ;)

    PS: For example Try send netmail

    From : Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    To : Pind 2:460/58

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    ---
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sun Feb 7 11:29:12 2021
    On 07 Feb 21 18:42:04, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Carol Shenkenberg

    if will properly documented by the FTSC. However, to date, the PKT and MSG standard is still documented in FTS-0001, which is now practically not used anyone and the widely used corresponding formats are not documented. Does i

    I'm not sure where you get your facts from but FTS-0001 is used here.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to All on Sun Feb 7 19:44:50 2021
    Hi, All!

    07 ΣÑó 21 18:42, Stas Mishchenkov -> Carol Shenkenberger:

    PS: For example Try send netmail

    From : Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    To : Pind 2:460/58

    Sorry. It MUST be Ping. My typo.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- îπª íѺ ªÑ¡δ - ¬á¬ ñπí íѺ ñ∩Γ½á.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Nick Andre on Sun Feb 7 18:31:57 2021
    Nick wrote (2021-02-07):

    On 07 Feb 21 18:42:04, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Carol Shenkenberg

    if will properly documented by the FTSC. However, to date, the PKT
    and MSG standard is still documented in FTS-0001, which is now
    practically not used anyone and the widely used corresponding formats
    are not documented. Does i

    I'm not sure where you get your facts from but FTS-0001 is used here.

    Which part of it? Which PKT formats are used by your system? Please point to the FTSs that describe these formats.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Oli on Sun Feb 7 15:02:03 2021
    On 07 Feb 21 18:31:57, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    Which part of it? Which PKT formats are used by your system? Please point to the FTSs that describe these formats.

    As per FTS-0001.016. Application B section 1 - Message storage. Section 2 - Schedules and events, specifically ZMH as I have a dialup modem line.

    Application C - Presentation Layer section 1. Compatible packed message.

    Application D - Session layer. All sections. All specification supported here.

    Application F - Network layer. All sections. Everything supported here.

    Application G - Data Link Layer. All sections. Everything accepted here.

    Several more FTS's supported here not to mention EMSI which was invented by both Joaquim Homrighausen and the original D'Bridge author. But I added the frosting on the cake by directly integrating with the BinkD protocol specs so this system really is both a "true" hybrid dialup and Internet system.

    That was done with the help of Ward Dossche... the guy whom I was told horror stories about and was called every name in the book, but has always been very nice to trade banter with. The guy who helped in July 2018 when I inherited a total mess from my ZC predecessor. You know, the one you cozy up with in Fidogazette. I rewrote that mess in two nights to make it "work". You know, to produce correct nodelists on time. But sure lets talk about FTS-0001...

    So you may connect here using BinkD or make an international dialup modem call to Toronto Canada and connect as low as 300 baud to an IBM 7855 and initiate
    a minimal Xmodem or Telink session if you wanted to. Maybe you prefer Yoohoo handshaking? Or try your hand at some WaZOO or Bark hackery?

    I still receive the occasional dialup BBS call but for the sake of this discussion the last "serious" downlink I had that did Fido via. dialup was a non-profit BBS geared towards disabled/handicapped chatter that was running Wildcat and ViaMail on a 386 PC polling here at 2400 baud several times a
    day. That was probably... uhhhh I'm guessing only 5 or 6 years ago and for some reason Telink worked better than EMSI but to be fair that was being done over a VOIP setup at the time.

    Now the troll says what?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Martin Foster@2:250/1.333 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 7 12:00:59 2021
    Hello Carol!

    *** Saturday 06.02.21 at 14:19:12, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to August Abolins:

    [snip]
    I can't think who to suggest might want to join
    the FTSC but Stas might want to or you?

    Fine but you're forgetting something.

    Regards,
    Martin

    --- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
    * Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:250/1.333)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 8 16:54:04 2021
    Hi, Nick!

    07 ΣÑó 21 11:29, Nick Andre -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    I'm not sure where you get your facts from but FTS-0001 is used here.

    Where is it used?

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- ¥¬«¡«¼¿∩ - øΓ« ¿ß¬πßßΓó« ΓαáΓ¿Γ∞ ñÑ¡∞ú¿, ¡Ñ »«½πτá∩ ¡¿¬á¬«ú« πñ«ó«½∞ßΓó¿∩.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Stas Mishchenkov on Mon Feb 8 09:25:28 2021
    On 08 Feb 21 16:54:04, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Nick Andre:

    I'm not sure where you get your facts from but FTS-0001 is used here.

    Where is it used?

    On this system.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Nick Andre on Tue Feb 9 10:19:30 2021
    Hi, Nick!

    08 ΣÑó 21 09:25, Nick Andre -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    I'm not sure where you get your facts from but FTS-0001 is used
    here.

    Where is it used?

    On this system.

    Ah. Then, of course, it should not be brought in line with reality.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- çừ¼¡¿, ½εñ¿ ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩εΓß∩, Γδ ¿σ »α«ßΓ« ½πτΦÑ πº¡á±Φ∞.
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Nick Andre on Tue Feb 9 10:48:55 2021
    Nick wrote (2021-02-07):

    On 07 Feb 21 18:31:57, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    Which part of it? Which PKT formats are used by your system? Please
    point to the FTSs that describe these formats.

    As per FTS-0001.016. Application B section 1 - Message storage. Section 2 - Schedules and events, specifically ZMH as I have a dialup modem line.

    Application C - Presentation Layer section 1. Compatible packed message.

    Application D - Session layer. All sections. All specification supported here.

    Application F - Network layer. All sections. Everything supported here.

    Application G - Data Link Layer. All sections. Everything accepted here.

    Several more FTS's supported here not to mention EMSI which was invented by both Joaquim Homrighausen and the original D'Bridge author. But I
    added the frosting on the cake by directly integrating with the BinkD protocol specs so this system really is both a "true" hybrid dialup and Internet system.

    That was done with the help of Ward Dossche... the guy whom I was told horror stories about and was called every name in the book, but has
    always been very nice to trade banter with. The guy who helped in July 2018 when I inherited a total mess from my ZC predecessor. You know, the one you cozy up with in Fidogazette. I rewrote that mess in two nights to make it "work". You know, to produce correct nodelists on time. But sure lets talk about FTS-0001...

    So you may connect here using BinkD or make an international dialup modem call to Toronto Canada and connect as low as 300 baud to an IBM 7855 and initiate a minimal Xmodem or Telink session if you wanted to. Maybe you prefer Yoohoo handshaking? Or try your hand at some WaZOO or Bark hackery?

    I still receive the occasional dialup BBS call but for the sake of this discussion the last "serious" downlink I had that did Fido via. dialup
    was a non-profit BBS geared towards disabled/handicapped chatter that was running Wildcat and ViaMail on a 386 PC polling here at 2400 baud several times a day. That was probably... uhhhh I'm guessing only 5 or 6 years
    ago and for some reason Telink worked better than EMSI but to be fair
    that was being done over a VOIP setup at the time.

    Now the troll says what?

    After starting with an answer for the first question, which transformed into raving about various ZCs in various ways, your mail suddenly stops here.

    Are you intentionally avoiding the other questions?
    Or do you have a short attention span and cannot resist the immediate urge to babble about the cool dude you think you are and how others suck?

    Did you understand the questions from the previous mails?

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Stas Mishchenkov on Tue Feb 9 06:23:57 2021
    On 09 Feb 21 10:19:30, Stas Mishchenkov said the following to Nick Andre:

    I'm not sure where you get your facts from but FTS-0001 is used
    here.

    Where is it used?

    On this system.

    Ah. Then, of course, it should not be brought in line with reality.

    What does that mean?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Oli on Tue Feb 9 07:07:59 2021
    On 09 Feb 21 10:48:55, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    Are you intentionally avoiding the other questions?
    Or do you have a short attention span and cannot resist the immediate urge t babble about the cool dude you think you are and how others suck?

    Well for starters your nodelist-police Fido uplink happily mooches everything from here so that makes me a "cool dude" for running a system that allows you the freedom to be a douchebag character posting with one-name.

    Which other questions? Elements of FTS-0001 are used on this system. What is
    so wrong about that? I very politely answered your loaded questions with
    cited sections that you asked for and gave perspective as to how things work here. I didn't have to reply at all but did because you asked. You're welcome.

    Now the troll says what?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Tue Feb 9 14:14:21 2021
    Hi Nick,

    On 2021-02-09 07:07:59, you wrote to Oli:

    Well for starters your nodelist-police Fido uplink happily mooches everything from here so that makes me a "cool dude" for running a
    system that allows you the freedom to be a douchebag character posting with one-name.

    Maybe you should check your config before you make such claims. I haven't had any connections to echomail or file areas on your system for almost a year...

    Now the troll says what?

    Your persistence to insult anyone who doesn't agree with your world view, says more about you then the ones you try to insult...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Tue Feb 9 08:58:14 2021
    On 09 Feb 21 14:14:21, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    Maybe you should check your config before you make such claims. I haven't h any connections to echomail or file areas on your system for almost a year.

    So you say, but God help everyone if the nodelist is incorrect... right?

    Your persistence to insult anyone who doesn't agree with your world view, s more about you then the ones you try to insult...

    Its pretty simple. When someone questions me politely, I respond accordingly.

    When someones questions are loaded with attitude or a stupid agenda or the person has trolled me elsewhere for quite some time, I respond accordingly.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Tue Feb 9 17:58:21 2021
    Hi Nick,

    On 2021-02-09 08:58:14, you wrote to me:

    Maybe you should check your config before you make such claims. I
    haven't h any connections to echomail or file areas on your system
    for almost a year.

    So you say,

    I send the disconnect message myself and got a reply from your areafix, so there is no doubt...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Helmut Renner@2:313/41 to Andrew Leary on Thu Feb 11 21:36:26 2021
    Servus Andrew!

    Antwort auf eine Message von Andrew Leary an All:

    The following members' terms expire on 11 Mar 2021:

    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    So I like to nominate:
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

    and in addition
    Mark Lewis 1:3634/12
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100

    if they want to do the work - I'm absolutely ok with that ;)

    Baba
    DonHelmi/2

    --- FleetStreet 1.27.3.8d
    * Origin: DonHelmi's Datendienst (2:313/41)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nick Andre on Thu Feb 11 21:44:05 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Nick Andre to Alexey Vissarionov on Sat Feb 06 2021 11:08 pm

    On 07 Feb 21 02:20:00, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Nick Andre:

    Besides of disclosing the message posted in a private FTSC echoarea (and cherry-picking it out of the thread, of course), you are missing one ver important point: TJ had done something for the Fidonet, while you had do nothing, and even hurt a little.

    LOL, it wasn't from a "private" echoarea, it was all from here.

    I'll be sure to re-post this every time you run your mouth at election
    time about who contributes what. You sure gave all of us yours...

    Date: 8:19 pm Sat Nov 10, 2018 Number : 6284 of 7936
    From: Alexey Vissarionov Base : Fidonet/FTSC_PUBLIC
    To : Ward Dossche Refer #: None
    Subj: FTS-1 and FTS-4 Replies: None
    Stat: Sent Origin : 11 Nov 18 03:14:16

    Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

    11 Nov 2018 00:01:18, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.

    Do you care of those faggots?

    Let's do it ... :-)

    ... and do that so that they would die in agony of envy :-)


    Your words, not mine. And heres another little gem amongst some of the flama you received from other developers:

    Date: 6:36 am Mon Nov 12, 2018 Number : 6309 of 7937
    From: Alexey Vissarionov Base : Fidonet/FTSC_PUBLIC
    To : Rob Swindell Refer #: None
    Subj: FTS-1 and FTS-4 Replies: None
    Stat: Sent Origin : 12 Nov 18 14:27:14

    Good ${greeting_time}, Rob!

    11 Nov 2018 14:36:58, you wrote to me:

    Yes. And now it's time to actualize it.
    Interesting. Both Randy Bush and Tom Jennings have just threatened
    to sue me if I endorse updating FTS-1.
    Do you care of those faggots?
    Here in America, that's a pretty derogatory description to assign to someone. I don't care whether they are homosexual or not, but I don't think that disparagement is justified. :-(

    People who threaten to sue others for "copyright infringement" (whatever tha could mean) deserve even more derogatory words. Alas, my English is not that good, and I don't know these words.

    And, once again, I'm happy I don't live in USA.


    .........

    Ahh yes, fantastic "contributions" from you and the classic "my English is n good" card others have pulled in the past when going down in flames. Yet you seem to articulate yourself extremely well when it comes to shoving your tec proposals down someone's throat or how much you hate America or anyone who i not a super Linux hacker in a hooded sweater listening to techno music.

    Perhaps you should brush up on interaction-skills-101 before attempting to contribute anything else to that magical planet of human beings let alone attempting to engage in penis comparison contest.

    Nick


    Interaction skills would be good here.

    xxcarol











    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nicholas Boel on Thu Feb 11 22:03:17 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Nicholas Boel to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 07 2021 12:00 am

    Hello Carol,

    On Sat Feb 06 2021 14:19:12, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to August Abolins:

    There hasn't been much going on be a couple of us have been helping folks understand how the standards got in place and how proposals
    work.

    That has nothing to do with the FTSC.

    There are 2 in possible view in the not too distant future. One from Maurice on datestamps that may morf a bit to become msg-id area (not clear to me on where he's taking it but he's looking at the next Y2K

    Nothing has been drafted. Maybe another proposal, but can not be turned into standard for another million years.

    type event) and you and Stas with Telegram working off smartphone/Notepads (assume I got that right).

    Again, something has to be drafted, and in this case.. can it be? Another protocol/service is being used to "gate" into Fidonet.

    Ozz has been developing a BBS with embedded mailer/tosser from what I can tell.

    Based off current standards and proposals, more than likely. If anything new made, show the FTSC so they can document it.

    and Nick is new enough, nothing has really happened but he devlops a major mailer.

    Nick as in Nick Andre? New Enough? Do you live in space?

    I have one other thought. If no one screams too hard, maybe we can
    mix the renewal election dates a bit so it's not so lop-sided? Just adjust some to further out. We've done that before. Twice that I
    know of.

    We basically have to support what's left, because by definition if we don't have 7? members, the FTSC is null and void.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."

    Well Nick B, With no propsals, our 'work' has been helping people understand how to MAKE one.

    Ozz had a lot of problems with no modern guides. Modern developers aren't passing new guides to those who can follow suit. We have 'pipeline development' now. Modern tech tells us that is a dead end eventually.

    Some of us are helping developers with how to get the 'word out' and then we see what works.

    I'd really hope Stas will help at least with some tech to smartphones IOS if I got right. I'd like to see somthing from the Mystic developer and to see SBBS actually submit suggested implementation proposals would be excellent. Technically SBBS is open source but that doesnt mean others know the basics to find it.

    So, any better ideas? With no repository on 'how-to' we leave all developers hanging and we die. It doesnt MATTER if it is a proposal or raised to a standard just now. It needs to be where they can find it.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Stas Mishchenkov on Thu Feb 11 22:18:39 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Stas Mishchenkov to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 07 2021 06:42 pm

    Hi, Carol!

    06 䥢 21 14:26, Carol Shenkenberger -> Stas Mishchenkov:

    Hey Stas, want to fart in a puddle with me?

    Why not? ;)

    Ok, joking aside, once you expand Telegram to delivery from 3 or more sites, when would a flag be appropriate in your view for folks to reach out easier for a link? I know you are not there yet (still developing) but does it sound like a need later down the road?

    For now the Talegram_BBS is so far from the moment when it can be runned by othe nodes.

    Meanwhile, I have some other ideas that I have implemented on my node and it would be very easy to implement them on others. This would be especially eas if will properly documented by the FTSC. However, to date, the PKT and MSG standard is still documented in FTS-0001, which is now practically not used anyone and the widely used corresponding formats are not documented. Does it make sense to offer something new?

    Yes, I know there is now a very important new flag BEER in the nodelist. ;)

    PS: For example Try send netmail

    From : Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    To : Pind 2:460/58

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.


    Lol! pass what you can to us. We can always take a proposal and work with you on it if formatting is a help. Many of us can help with technical wording if there is confusion.

    Send us what we can use for now? Last I had from August seemed to indicate I needed to be a UNIX version to even start but others with that, can look and see what they can do?

    Eventually you will hit a release level stage and documenting that will mean others can then help. They may be able to make '3rd party solutions' (add ons) to things you have not gotten to yet,

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Oli on Thu Feb 11 22:24:21 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Oli to Nick Andre on Tue Feb 09 2021 10:48 am

    Nick wrote (2021-02-07):

    On 07 Feb 21 18:31:57, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    Which part of it? Which PKT formats are used by your system? Please
    point to the FTSs that describe these formats.

    As per FTS-0001.016. Application B section 1 - Message storage. Section - Schedules and events, specifically ZMH as I have a dialup modem line.

    Application C - Presentation Layer section 1. Compatible packed message

    Application D - Session layer. All sections. All specification supporte here.

    Application F - Network layer. All sections. Everything supported here.

    Application G - Data Link Layer. All sections. Everything accepted here

    Several more FTS's supported here not to mention EMSI which was invente by both Joaquim Homrighausen and the original D'Bridge author. But I added the frosting on the cake by directly integrating with the BinkD protocol specs so this system really is both a "true" hybrid dialup and Internet system.

    That was done with the help of Ward Dossche... the guy whom I was told horror stories about and was called every name in the book, but has always been very nice to trade banter with. The guy who helped in July 2018 when I inherited a total mess from my ZC predecessor. You know, th one you cozy up with in Fidogazette. I rewrote that mess in two nights make it "work". You know, to produce correct nodelists on time. But sur lets talk about FTS-0001...

    So you may connect here using BinkD or make an international dialup mod call to Toronto Canada and connect as low as 300 baud to an IBM 7855 an initiate a minimal Xmodem or Telink session if you wanted to. Maybe you prefer Yoohoo handshaking? Or try your hand at some WaZOO or Bark hacke

    I still receive the occasional dialup BBS call but for the sake of this discussion the last "serious" downlink I had that did Fido via. dialup was a non-profit BBS geared towards disabled/handicapped chatter that w running Wildcat and ViaMail on a 386 PC polling here at 2400 baud sever times a day. That was probably... uhhhh I'm guessing only 5 or 6 years ago and for some reason Telink worked better than EMSI but to be fair that was being done over a VOIP setup at the time.

    Now the troll says what?

    After starting with an answer for the first question, which transformed into raving about various ZCs in various ways, your mail suddenly stops here.

    Are you intentionally avoiding the other questions?
    Or do you have a short attention span and cannot resist the immediate urge t babble about the cool dude you think you are and how others suck?

    Did you understand the questions from the previous mails?


    We have some serious weather here just now and he may be caught in it.

    Why so nasty at a 3 day delay?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Rob Swindell to Carol Shenkenberger on Thu Feb 11 20:45:12 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nicholas Boel on Thu Feb 11 2021 10:03 pm

    I'd really hope Stas will help at least with some tech to smartphones IOS if I got right. I'd like to see somthing from the Mystic developer and to see SBBS actually submit suggested implementation proposals would be excellent. Technically SBBS is open source but that doesnt mean others know the basics to find it.

    To find... what exactly?

    So, any better ideas? With no repository on 'how-to' we leave all developers hanging and we die. It doesnt MATTER if it is a proposal or raised to a standard just now. It needs to be where they can find it.

    Here's my attempt at a modern FTN spec: https://wiki.synchro.net/ref:fidonet_packets
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to Helmut Renner on Fri Feb 12 11:28:50 2021
    Hi Helmut!

    11 Feb 2021 21:36, from Helmut Renner -> Andrew Leary:

    So I like to nominate:
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

    I accept.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Human history has become a race between education and catastrophe.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Would I ask you a rhetorical question? (2:310/31)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Helmut Renner on Fri Feb 12 12:33:23 2021
    Helmut wrote (2021-02-11):

    if they want to do the work - I'm absolutely ok with that ;)

    the work?

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carol Shenkenberger on Fri Feb 12 07:24:00 2021
    Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Oli <=-

    Are you intentionally avoiding the other questions?
    Or do you have a short attention span and cannot resist the immediate urge t babble about the cool dude you think you are and how others suck?

    Did you understand the questions from the previous mails?

    We have some serious weather here just now and he may be caught
    in it.

    Why so nasty at a 3 day delay?

    Because "Oli" is an asshole. That's what he does.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Helmut Renner on Fri Feb 12 08:42:45 2021
    Hello Helmut!

    11 Feb 21 21:36, you wrote to me:

    So I like to nominate:
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

    ACK.

    and in addition
    Mark Lewis 1:3634/12

    ACK.

    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100

    Carol has already been nominated and accepted.

    Regards,

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Richard Menedetter on Fri Feb 12 08:48:32 2021
    Hello Richard!

    12 Feb 21 11:28, you wrote to Helmut Renner:

    So I like to nominate:
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

    I accept.

    ACK.

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Nick Andre on Fri Feb 12 14:50:41 2021
    Nick wrote (2021-02-09):

    Which other questions? Elements of FTS-0001 are used on this system. What is so wrong about that? I very politely answered

    Calling someone a troll is your definition of being polite?

    Now the troll says what?

    The troll says the he is amused that you are so occupied with your troll research and bullshitting that you don't recognize the elephant in the room (question). Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s) in use for decades? I start to believe that some members of the FTSC don't even understand the difference between FTS-0001 F.1. and what's in use today.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Dan Clough on Fri Feb 12 15:09:02 2021
    Dan wrote (2021-02-12):

    Because "Oli" is an asshole. That's what he does.

    Can someone please nominate Dan "Exploding Heads" Clough? I think he is highly qualified for the job.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Carol Shenkenberger on Fri Feb 12 15:20:35 2021
    Carol wrote (2021-02-11):

    We have some serious weather here just now and he may be caught in it.

    climate change and shit, tell me about it.

    Why so nasty at a 3 day delay?

    Sorry, I'm confused. Date/time in UTC:

    Nick Sun 7 Feb 2021 20:02:03
    Me Tue 9 Feb 2021 09:48:55
    You Fri 12 Feb 2021 03:24:21

    Are you sure your echomail feed is alright?

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Oli on Fri Feb 12 15:19:24 2021
    Hi Oli,

    On 2021-02-12 14:50:41, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s) in
    use for decades?

    A couple of years back there was someone who put together a document describing the different pkt formats in use. It was discussed here, but I don't know what happend to it, because the name it was given:

    Publication: FSP-1040 draft 3
    Revision: 1
    Title: Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats
    Author: Stephen Hurd 1:103/1
    Date: 2016-02-11

    Is now in use for a different FSP:

    fsp-1040.001 SRIF file request interface


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Richard Menedetter on Fri Feb 12 18:59:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, Richard!

    12 Feb 2021 11:28:50, you wrote to Helmut Renner:

    So I like to nominate:
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    I accept.

    You and Maurice seem to be the only "T" people in the coming FTSC... :-/


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Oli on Fri Feb 12 13:24:00 2021
    Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Because "Oli" is an asshole. That's what he does.

    Can someone please nominate Dan "Exploding Heads" Clough? I think
    he is highly qualified for the job.

    Exploding heads? Not sure what you mean by that, but whatever.

    Are real names required in this Fidonet echo?


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Oli on Fri Feb 12 13:41:00 2021
    Oli wrote to Carol Shenkenberger <=-

    We have some serious weather here just now and he may be caught in it.

    climate change and shit, tell me about it.

    Nope, that's not it. It's called.................... winter.

    Happens every year, believe it or not.



    ... WORK HARDER!... Millions on welfare depend on YOU!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Helmut Renner on Fri Feb 12 17:20:14 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Helmut Renner to Andrew Leary on Thu Feb 11 2021 21:36:26


    Mark Lewis 1:3634/12

    i accept this nomination...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Rob Swindell to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Feb 12 16:28:07 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Wilfred van Velzen to Oli on Fri Feb 12 2021 03:19 pm

    Hi Oli,

    On 2021-02-12 14:50:41, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s) in use for decades?

    A couple of years back there was someone who put together a document describing the different pkt formats in use. It was discussed here, but I don't know what happend to it, because the name it was given:

    Publication: FSP-1040 draft 3
    Revision: 1
    Title: Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats
    Author: Stephen Hurd 1:103/1
    Date: 2016-02-11

    Multiple drafts were rejected for reasons the author didn't agree with (e.g. draft spec had to be submitted by splitting the text among multiple echomail messages, per stone-age FTSC submission requirements). So he gave up the effort and the FTSC discarded a rare high-quality technical contribution. Or at least, that's my recollection.
    https://nix.synchro.net/msgs/msg.ssjs?msg_sub=fidoftscpub&message=7380
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Oli on Fri Feb 12 19:50:27 2021
    On 12 Feb 21 14:50:41, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    Calling someone a troll is your definition of being polite?

    You are a troll who (A) Started random shit with me quite some time ago
    because "you can" and (B) Tries to take me to task technically but can't.

    So you invent things to whine about, like this:

    (question). Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s in use for decades? I start to believe that some members of the FTSC don't even understand the difference between FTS-0001 F.1. and what's in use today

    If you believe the FTSC does not live up to your expectations, then do something about it and get involved instead of running your mouth. Nobody is stopping you. Kindof like what you were told recently by the Husky guys.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alexey Vissarionov on Fri Feb 12 20:08:06 2021
    On 12 Feb 21 18:59:00, Alexey Vissarionov said the following to Richard Menedet

    So I like to nominate:
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    I accept.

    You and Maurice seem to be the only "T" people in the coming FTSC... :-/

    The FTSC could always be disbanded if it cannot serve its purpose?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to mark lewis on Fri Feb 12 20:46:20 2021
    Hello mark!

    12 Feb 21 17:20, you wrote to Helmut Renner:

    Mark Lewis 1:3634/12

    i accept this nomination...

    ACK.

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Rob Swindell to Nick Andre on Fri Feb 12 18:34:17 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Nick Andre to Alexey Vissarionov on Fri Feb 12 2021 08:08 pm

    The FTSC could always be disbanded if it cannot serve its purpose?

    Just so long as the web-site is kept up, I don't see much difference.
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Rob Swindell on Fri Feb 12 21:50:25 2021
    On 12 Feb 21 18:34:17, Rob Swindell said the following to Nick Andre:

    The FTSC could always be disbanded if it cannot serve its purpose?

    Just so long as the web-site is kept up, I don't see much difference.

    Me neither.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to All on Sat Feb 13 21:39:50 2021
    12 Feb 21 18:34, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    The FTSC could always be disbanded if it cannot serve its purpose?

    Just so long as the web-site is kept up, I don't see much difference.

    I have no strong opinion on whether the FTSC should still exist, but the FTSC web site's operation as a document repository has long been superceded by superiour web hosts where that is their primary purpose, like SourceForge, GitHub and GitLab.

    So to save on hosting costs (and the risk of ftsc.org expiring etc) I suggest decomissioning the current FTSC web site and hosting all the FTSC documents on GitHub, and uploading a snapshot to Archive.org.

    Then if anyone still wants to go to the trouble of keeping the ftsc.org domain & web site alive they can redirect web visitors to the GitHub repo instead. The Wikipedia entry for FidoNet could also point to both the GitHub repo and archive.org snapshot, since they're fairly relevant.

    Hosting all the FTSC documents on GitHub would be particularly useful since it would allow anyone to write bug reports or file "issues" relating to the various FidoNet standards documents, which may help any future developers. (Or historians...)

    Spoken as a former maintainer of the ftsc.org web site, several years ago. I see it's still using the same layout and colour scheme. :)

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Richard Menedetter@2:310/31 to andrew clarke on Sat Feb 13 12:20:04 2021
    Hi andrew!

    13 Feb 2021 21:39, from andrew clarke -> All:

    I have no strong opinion on whether the FTSC should still exist, but
    the FTSC web site's operation as a document repository has long been superceded by superiour web hosts where that is their primary purpose, like SourceForge, GitHub and GitLab.

    Uploading to archive.org is a very good idea.

    Using Sourceforge is a bad idea.
    Using Github or better Gitlab is a good idea IMHO.

    CU, Ricsi

    ... Murphy's Paradox: Doing it the hard way is easier in the end.
    --- GoldED+/LNX
    * Origin: Those who talk don't know. Those who don't talk, know. (2:310/31)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 06:46:02 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Feb 12 2021 16:28:07


    Multiple drafts were rejected for reasons the author didn't agree
    with (e.g. draft spec had to be submitted by splitting the text
    among multiple echomail messages, per stone-age FTSC submission requirements). So he gave up the effort and the FTSC discarded a
    rare high-quality technical contribution. Or at least, that's my recollection.

    i forget the details but the document is on the FTSC table as FSP-1042 since 2019 Mar 26... the previous FSP number was recycled to the SRIF document when the FTSC chairperson at that time decided to no longer reserve document
    numbers... there is a different chairperson, now... not sure if they are reserving document numbers or not, though...

    the presented document has gone through a few edits to correct a few things... one was a table fix and the other was to fix a copy pasta error... aside from that, diff showed minor formatting changes shortening line widths...
    at this time, the present document is "FSP-1042 Draft 6" as of 2019 Apr 11...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Feb 13 13:06:38 2021
    Wilfred wrote (2021-02-12):

    Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s) in
    use for decades?

    A couple of years back there was someone who put together a document describing the different pkt formats in use. It was discussed here, but I don't know what happend to it, because the name it was given:

    Publication: FSP-1040 draft 3
    Revision: 1
    Title: Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats
    Author: Stephen Hurd 1:103/1
    Date: 2016-02-11

    Thanks, found it:
    https://bbsdev.net/fsp/FSP-1040.txt

    Good work by Stephen (and feedback from mark lewis). It's sad that it didn't get published.

    I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oli on Sat Feb 13 13:41:00 2021
    I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

    WOW! What an extraordinary sharp-eyed find! You really should earn a place in the now defunct FTSC -- but first you have to fix the name that you present to all of us in the header.

    Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sat Feb 13 07:47:00 2021
    Björn Felten wrote to Oli <=-

    I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

    WOW! What an extraordinary sharp-eyed find! You really should
    earn a place in the now defunct FTSC -- but first you have to fix
    the name that you present to all of us in the header.

    Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a
    letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?

    Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
    unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

    Why is he allowed to post in here? Can't the boss node of his point
    enforce the rules? Why hasn't that person configured his system
    properly?



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Oli on Sat Feb 13 14:06:58 2021
    -={ 2021-02-13 14:06:58.413218119+00:00 }=-

    Hey Oli!

    I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type
    2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for
    "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

    I believe that is a consequence of time.h and has nothing to do with fidonet. It is all in the localtime() structure that 0-11 for months was used rather than the 01-12 used for months in strftime() which is also part of time.h. According to c89 standards output for strftime does include enough % specifiers to output proper iso-8601 or even a rfc-3339 formatted datetime stamp. For sure "2021-02-13 14:06:58 +0000" is doable and is backwards compatible to c89. We could have been using a four digit year since day one.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Þæt folc bið gesælig... and gesundful þurh gesceadwisne reccend.
    A people is made happy and prosperous by a wise ruler.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dan Clough on Sat Feb 13 15:26:58 2021
    Hi Dan,

    On 2021-02-13 07:47:00, you wrote to Bjrn Felten:

    Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a
    letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?

    Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name?

    "Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Richard Menedetter on Sat Feb 13 22:33:52 2021
    13 Feb 21 12:20, you wrote to me:

    Uploading to archive.org is a very good idea.

    Using Sourceforge is a bad idea.
    Using Github or better Gitlab is a good idea IMHO.

    Yes, SourceForge is a mess now. Though was never that great to begin with.

    Meanwhile GitHub just keeps getting better.

    I've no experience with GitLab.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to All on Sun Feb 14 01:27:28 2021
    13 Feb 21 21:39, I wrote to all:

    So to save on hosting costs (and the risk of ftsc.org expiring etc) I suggest decomissioning the current FTSC web site and hosting all the
    FTSC documents on GitHub, and uploading a snapshot to Archive.org.

    I've uploaded an unofficial(*) repo here:

    https://github.com/zoomosis/ftsc

    (*) I am not an FTSC member

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Sat Feb 13 15:51:54 2021
    Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
    unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

    Well, true enough. But to his defence I'd like to add that Google has breached our barricades, so now every message where our true names occur can end up in a Google search.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Feb 13 09:20:00 2021
    Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Oli, is that all you have on the first line when you receive a
    letter from the postman? I think not, so why here on Fidonet?

    Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name?

    "Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not
    exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in
    Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his
    messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really
    posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

    Perhaps all true, but not really the point.

    What if one is NOT using Golded with that point list installed, like all
    of the people in Zone 1, for example?

    Most Fidonet echos "require" a real name. Does this one? If so, why is
    he being allowed to post here with that name?



    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Sat Feb 13 09:23:00 2021
    Björn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
    unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.

    Well, true enough. But to his defence I'd like to add that
    Google has breached our barricades, so now every message where
    our true names occur can end up in a Google search.

    Probably true as well. But that doesn't change the rules in here. If a person is that worried about their real name showing up, they shouldn't
    post at all. The rules apply to everyone, not just the non-paranoid
    ones. He shouldn't be allowed to post here with that name.



    ... Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dan Clough on Sat Feb 13 16:33:43 2021
    Hi Dan,

    On 2021-02-13 09:20:00, you wrote to me:

    "Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not
    exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in
    Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his
    messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really
    posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

    Perhaps all true, but not really the point.

    What if one is NOT using Golded with that point list installed, like all of the people in Zone 1, for example?

    Anyone can get the pointlist, and you don't need Golded to look at it's content, it's just an ascii file, like any nodelist.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Dan Clough on Sat Feb 13 16:47:21 2021
    Dan wrote (2021-02-13):

    Most Fidonet echos "require" a real name. Does this one? If so, why is he being allowed to post here with that name?

    We had this discussion already some months/years ago. Read the rules.

    What about calling people assholes, tell them to die and other stuff? Is that somehow covered by the 'rules'? If you like law and order, please behave yourself.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to andrew clarke on Sat Feb 13 17:08:23 2021
    andrew wrote (2021-02-13):

    13 Feb 21 12:20, you wrote to me:

    Uploading to archive.org is a very good idea.

    Using Sourceforge is a bad idea.
    Using Github or better Gitlab is a good idea IMHO.

    Yes, SourceForge is a mess now. Though was never that great to begin with.

    Meanwhile GitHub just keeps getting better.

    I've no experience with GitLab.

    If you compare all three, Gitlab and Github is very similar and Sourceforge the horrible mess. I'm not very deep into Gitlab or Github, but my impression is that since Microsoft bought Github they have added features to the free plan, that had only been available in the free Gitlab plan before. The biggest advantage of Gitlab is that is open source (if you really want to install it on your own server). It also has a better search. Overall I find Github a bit easier to use. They are both equally good options.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Sat Feb 13 10:47:20 2021
    On 13 Feb 21 09:23:00, Dan Clough said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    Probably true as well. But that doesn't change the rules in here. If a person is that worried about their real name showing up, they shouldn't post at all. The rules apply to everyone, not just the non-paranoid
    ones. He shouldn't be allowed to post here with that name.

    Echo mods can't really enforce rules anymore, due to the now-common meshing topology in place where many systems peer with many others for an Echomail area. At least one-third of all systems connecting here are redundant feeds. A moderator kinda needs to hope and pray that a system distributing an area honours whatever request is made. Feed cuts are almost impossible. This kindof explains why Lefaso gets away with murder, Oli is just as pretentious as Bono and Vague "is" vague.

    We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail "control" known as an Elist where one can list a moderator, rules, real names or not, etc. with
    a central system but I do not see how its practically enforceable.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to All on Sun Feb 14 05:47:28 2021
    13 Feb 21 10:47, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail "control"
    known as an Elist where one can list a moderator, rules, real names or not, etc. with a central system but I do not see how its practically enforceable.

    I have no idea whether your real name is Nick Andre. It probably is but I do not care.

    The "real names" policy of some FidoNet echos has always revolved around elitist gatekeeping nonsense and is completely unenforcable, now more than ever.

    The commercial social media site Twitter has been running for at least 15 years and does not require real names, despite the pleas of a minority - mostly from a handful of people who signed up for accounts years after the site began.

    Facebook no longer tries to enforce real names in Germany (and perhaps now worldwide) since courts ruled that Facebook's real name policy violated Germans' right to privacy.

    And there are good reasons not to require real names. Victims of stalking or domestic violence commonly use aliases online.

    Now, presumably we don't want to ban those people from FTSC_PUBLIC or other FidoNet echos. In which case we accept that pseduonyms are actually acceptable and don't need to be justified, and so therefore we have no rational justification for banning mononyms either, because at that point it makes absolutely no difference what someone's psuedonym is. I suppose all we can ask is people be consistent, within reason.

    And there do happen to be people around the world with a mononym as their legal name. Two English-speaking people with mononyms that spring to mind are the magician Teller (of the Penn & Teller duo) and Australian IT journalist Stilgherrian.

    This would've been a problem for them over the years in the unlikely event they tried to login to any BBS running Maximus, which from memory was hard-coded to require new users to enter two names to register. I don't think Maximus was alone there either. A lot of web sites have the same problem. Many of those web sites also have issues with two character surnames (common in Asia) or the use of apostrophes (common in Ireland), among other things.

    And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm not defending trolls. If people have a problem with someone's attitude on here, that's a clearly separate issue.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Oli on Sun Feb 14 05:48:46 2021
    13 Feb 21 17:08, you wrote to me:

    If you compare all three, Gitlab and Github is very similar and Sourceforge the horrible mess. I'm not very deep into Gitlab or Github, but my impression is that since Microsoft bought Github they have added features to the free plan, that had only been available in the free
    Gitlab plan before. The biggest advantage of Gitlab is that is open
    source (if you really want to install it on your own server). It also
    has a better search. Overall I find Github a bit easier to use. They are both equally good options.

    Ultimately it doesn't really matter as long as a decision is made and the repo works.

    If Microsoft happens to screw up GitHub 10 years from now then that's not a huge deal for most people.

    Though somehow I don't see the FTSC having much to do by 2031.

    I don't really see Microsoft messing up GitHub as it would create a lot of ill-will towards open source developers, including their own employees, but in any case it's usually fairly trivial to move most smaller repos elsewhere, especially something small and relatively static like the FTSC docs. And in the unlikely event a decent free alternative is unavailable, self-hosting is an option.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 11:54:21 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: mark lewis to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 2021 06:46 am

    at this time, the present document is "FSP-1042 Draft 6" as of 2019 Apr 11...

    Can't find it on ftsc.org.
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 13 11:59:48 2021
    Re: "Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats" (Ex FSP-1040)
    By: Maurice Kinal to Oli on Sat Feb 13 2021 02:06 pm

    -={ 2021-02-13 14:06:58.413218119+00:00 }=-

    Hey Oli!

    I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type
    2(+) packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for
    "day" of month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

    I believe that is a consequence of time.h and has nothing to do with fidonet. It is all in the localtime() structure that 0-11 for months was used rather than the 01-12 used for months in strftime() which is also part of time.h. According to c89 standards output for strftime does include enough % specifiers to output proper iso-8601 or even a rfc-3339 formatted datetime stamp. For sure "2021-02-13 14:06:58 +0000" is doable and is backwards compatible to c89. We could have been using a four digit year since day one.

    The month field being discussed here is from the packet header, which is binary (not a string of text). The date field you're referring to is in a "packed message" header. The *year* field of the packet header is already 16-bits, so can already accomodate years up to 65535.
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 16:07:24 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 2021 11:54:21


    at this time, the present document is "FSP-1042 Draft 6" as of 2019 Apr 11...

    Can't find it on ftsc.org.

    correct... it has not been published, yet... it is going through the same process as all other documents that have been presented for consideration...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 21:07:20 2021
    -={ 2021-02-13 21:07:20.634530056+00:00 }=-

    Hey Rob!

    The month field being discussed here is from the packet header,
    which is binary (not a string of text).

    And exactly where was it called from? I am guessing localtime() which explains the resulting 0-11 reported. Same can be said for other sources of localtime() such as perl, python, etc. They are all based on time.h.

    Where is your software getting the date and time from?

    The date field you're referring to is in a "packed message"
    header. The *year* field of the packet header is already 16-bits,
    so can already accomodate years up to 65535.

    Understood but I was just using that as an example that the two digit year used in packed message header didn't need to be a two digit year which is contained in the string output for the DateTime field. In other words the format was bogus given that fact and could eaily be the cause of the poorly designed and deployed fts-4008 aka TZUTC.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Sorg ond slæp somod ætgædre earmne anhogan oft gebindað.
    Sorrow and sleep both together often bind the wretched solitary person.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 13 14:13:31 2021
    Re: "Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats" (Ex FSP-1040)
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 2021 09:07 pm

    -={ 2021-02-13 21:07:20.634530056+00:00 }=-

    Hey Rob!

    The month field being discussed here is from the packet header,
    which is binary (not a string of text).

    And exactly where was it called from?

    Huh?

    I am guessing localtime() which explains the resulting 0-11 reported.

    It's not uncommon for January to represented as a 0. This allows for logical indexing into an array of strings (where "Jan" or "January" would be the first, or 0th, item in the array). This design is not specific to the C runtime localtime() function:
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Date/getMonth

    Same can be said for other sources of
    localtime() such as perl, python, etc. They are all based on time.h.

    Where is your software getting the date and time from?

    It depends on the context, but usually from time(). When SBBSecho exports to FTN "packed messages", it uses localtime() to convert the stored time_t to a struct tm and then I use sprintf to format into the standard DateTime field syntax.

    #define TM_YEAR(yy) ((yy)%100)
    time_t tt = msg.hdr.when_written.time;
    struct tm* tm;
    if((tm = localtime(&tt)) != NULL)
    sprintf(hdr.time,"%02u %3.3s %02u %02u:%02u:%02u"
    ,tm->tm_mday,mon[tm->tm_mon],TM_YEAR(tm->tm_year)
    ,tm->tm_hour,tm->tm_min,tm->tm_sec);

    The date field you're referring to is in a "packed message"
    header. The *year* field of the packet header is already 16-bits,
    so can already accomodate years up to 65535.

    Understood but I was just using that as an example that the two digit year used in packed message header didn't need to be a two digit year which is contained in the string output for the DateTime field. In other words the format was bogus given that fact and could eaily be the cause of the poorly designed and deployed fts-4008 aka TZUTC.

    You could sum up the vast majority of FidoNet in those two words: "poorly designed". I guess we shouldn't really have expected more from technology developed by amateurs. There was plenty of higher quality "prior art" available at the time to learn or copy from, but those earlier Fido-pioneers thought they were the first ones to invent this particular kind of wheel.
  • From Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 14:14:40 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: mark lewis to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 2021 04:07 pm

    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 2021 11:54:21


    at this time, the present document is "FSP-1042 Draft 6" as of 2019 Apr 11...

    Can't find it on ftsc.org.

    correct... it has not been published, yet... it is going through the same process as all other documents that have been presented for consideration...

    I'm confused though: it was a public proposal, but it's being processed in a non-public forum?
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 17:16:35 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Rob Swindell to Carol Shenkenberger on Thu Feb 11 2021 08:45 pm

    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nicholas Boel on Thu Feb 11 2021 10:03 pm

    I'd really hope Stas will help at least with some tech to smartphones IOS I got right. I'd like to see somthing from the Mystic developer and to s SBBS actually submit suggested implementation proposals would be excellen Technically SBBS is open source but that doesnt mean others know the basi to find it.

    To find... what exactly?

    So, any better ideas? With no repository on 'how-to' we leave all developers hanging and we die. It doesnt MATTER if it is a proposal or raised to a standard just now. It needs to be where they can find it.

    Here's my attempt at a modern FTN spec: https://wiki.synchro.net/ref:fidonet_packets

    Submit then!

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Oli on Sat Feb 13 17:20:58 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Oli to Nick Andre on Fri Feb 12 2021 02:50 pm

    Nick wrote (2021-02-09):

    Which other questions? Elements of FTS-0001 are used on this system. Wh is so wrong about that? I very politely answered

    Calling someone a troll is your definition of being polite?

    Now the troll says what?

    The troll says the he is amused that you are so occupied with your troll research and bullshitting that you don't recognize the elephant in the room (question). Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet format(s in use for decades? I start to believe that some members of the FTSC don't e understand the difference between FTS-0001 F.1. and what's in use today.


    Because, no one has submitted one might be related...

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Oli on Sat Feb 13 17:23:19 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Oli to Carol Shenkenberger on Fri Feb 12 2021 03:20 pm

    Carol wrote (2021-02-11):

    We have some serious weather here just now and he may be caught in it.

    climate change and shit, tell me about it.

    Why so nasty at a 3 day delay?

    Sorry, I'm confused. Date/time in UTC:

    Nick Sun 7 Feb 2021 20:02:03
    Me Tue 9 Feb 2021 09:48:55
    You Fri 12 Feb 2021 03:24:21

    Are you sure your echomail feed is alright?


    It's fine. I don't live online so a reply a few days later is perfectly workable.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Dan Clough on Sat Feb 13 17:25:47 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Dan Clough to Oli on Fri Feb 12 2021 01:24 pm

    Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Because "Oli" is an asshole. That's what he does.

    Can someone please nominate Dan "Exploding Heads" Clough? I think
    he is highly qualified for the job.

    Exploding heads? Not sure what you mean by that, but whatever.

    Are real names required in this Fidonet echo?


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    Yes, real names. Oli is just being obstinant.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 17:43:31 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 2021 14:14:40


    correct... it has not been published, yet... it is going through the same process as all other documents that have been presented for consideration...

    I'm confused though: it was a public proposal, but it's being processed in a non-public forum?

    all documents, when selected by the FTSC, go through a similar process as was done originally with this document... at that time, there is no public feedback on the document... only the FTSC members are involved in that stage
    of proofreading, analysis, refining, and modifying the document before it is approved or turned back for more refinement based on provided feedback... yes, it is kinda like double work on the same task... the initial work
    being done by the originator and the next level being done by the FTSC members who elect to participate in the process...

    in any case, when the previous work in this echo went silent, some FTSC members worked together to bring the last public version into the private FTSC area for further discussion, refinement, and eventual approval or denial...
    they did not want to see the work that went into the document wasted... i was one of those... i'll let others speak up for themselves if they want it known of their participation and backing...

    hopefully once this current (s)election process is over, the FTSC will return to the document and complete the process...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 15:00:17 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: mark lewis to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 2021 05:43 pm

    I'm confused though: it was a public proposal, but it's being processed in a non-public forum?

    all documents, when selected by the FTSC, go through a similar process as was done originally with this document... at that time, there is no public feedback on the document... only the FTSC members are involved in that stage of proofreading, analysis, refining, and modifying the document before it is approved or turned back for more refinement based on provided feedback... yes, it is kinda like double work on the same task... the initial work
    being done by the originator and the next level being done by the FTSC members who elect to participate in the process...

    I found a flaw in the document a while back, I don't remember the specifics now, but if I can't review the current draft, how am I supposed to know if the flaw has been addressed or not?
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 17:43:49 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 2021 02:14 pm

    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: mark lewis to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 2021 04:07 pm

    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 2021 11:54:21


    at this time, the present document is "FSP-1042 Draft 6" as of 2019 Apr 11...

    Can't find it on ftsc.org.

    correct... it has not been published, yet... it is going through the same process as all other documents that have been presented for consideration

    I'm confused though: it was a public proposal, but it's being processed in a non-public forum?

    I'm confused too. Lets see if Andrew can find it. I do not recall it being sent in nor do I have archives back to 2019.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 18:10:25 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Rob Swindell to mark lewis on Sat Feb 13 2021 15:00:17


    I found a flaw in the document a while back, I don't remember the specifics now, but if I can't review the current draft, how am I supposed to know if the flaw has been addressed or not?

    well, you wouldn't know... hopefully it was found but it is possible it has not yet been discovered... the document is still on the desk... i can't really say more and may have already said too much... i've not yet been
    reprimanded by any other FTSC members but i'm going to hold off posting more...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 13 23:12:21 2021
    -={ 2021-02-13 23:12:21.152375887+00:00 }=-

    Hey Rob!

    It's not uncommon for January to represented as a 0.

    You're making my point, as your example with JavaScript demonstrates. It is derived from c's time.h.

    it uses localtime()

    A time.h function along with gmtime() and strftime(). I'd be surprised if those functions weren't included in JavaScript given localtime().

    to convert the stored time_t to a struct tm and then I use sprintf
    to format into the standard DateTime field syntax.

    strftime() works just as well, even replicating two digit year formats such as the packed message header's DateTime string. As simple as using '%d %b %y %T' in the specifier field of the strftime() call, including using the c89 standards. However I believe '%F %T %z' to be the superior output for a packed meassage DateTime string.

    You could sum up the vast majority of FidoNet in those two
    words: "poorly designed".

    Probably. I believe having these types of conversations in public has the potential towards solving that flaw.

    I guess we shouldn't really have expected more from technology
    developed by amateurs.

    Speak for yourself. I do expect more. Both from them, whoever them are, as well as myself. That has always been my motivation for participating in this fine and honourable echoarea.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Fus sceal feran, fæge sweltan.
    Those who are ready must go, the doomed die.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sat Feb 13 19:42:00 2021
    Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Are real names required in this Fidonet echo?

    Yes, real names. Oli is just being obstinant.

    OK, thanks for that. So, real names are required, unless one is
    "obstinant"? Then they don't have to follow the rules? Is that it?

    Who's the moderator, and (again), why is this allowed to continue?



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Feb 13 19:57:00 2021
    Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    "Oli" are the first letters of his first name. So it's not
    exactly an alias. And when you have the Z2PNT list installed in
    Golded, you just have to press F10, when you have one of his
    messages open to find out his real name. So he isn't really
    posting anonymous, or trying to hide anything...

    Perhaps all true, but not really the point.

    What if one is NOT using Golded with that point list installed, like all of the people in Zone 1, for example?

    Anyone can get the pointlist, and you don't need Golded to look
    at it's content, it's just an ascii file, like any nodelist.

    Understood, but again it's not really the point. Persons posting to
    Fidonet echos are supposed to be using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no
    difference. They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Oli on Sat Feb 13 20:04:00 2021
    Oli wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Most Fidonet echos "require" a real name. Does this one? If so, why is he being allowed to post here with that name?

    We had this discussion already some months/years ago. Read the
    rules.

    I'd like to read the rules. The most recent "ELISTxxx" archive I have contains a zip file of rules for various echos, but not a rules file for
    this echo. Where can I find the published rules for this echo?

    What about calling people assholes, tell them to die and other
    stuff? Is that somehow covered by the 'rules'? If you like law
    and order, please behave yourself.

    That's a different thing altogether. I don't know if it's covered by
    the rules, because the rules don't seem to be available. As for
    behaving, I am not the one posting with a fake name.

    Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
    hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?



    ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 13 20:07:00 2021
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Probably true as well. But that doesn't change the rules in here. If a person is that worried about their real name showing up, they shouldn't post at all. The rules apply to everyone, not just the non-paranoid
    ones. He shouldn't be allowed to post here with that name.

    Echo mods can't really enforce rules anymore, due to the
    now-common meshing topology in place where many systems peer with
    many others for an Echomail area. At least one-third of all
    systems connecting here are redundant feeds. A moderator kinda
    needs to hope and pray that a system distributing an area honours
    whatever request is made. Feed cuts are almost impossible. This
    kindof explains why Lefaso gets away with murder, Oli is just as pretentious as Bono and Vague "is" vague.

    Yes, I understand about the difficulty with enforcement. Seems like
    somebody (moderator) could at least *SAY* something to obvious rules
    violators such as this guy "Oli", though.

    We do have somewhat of a last kick-at-the-can of Echomail
    "control" known as an Elist where one can list a moderator,
    rules, real names or not, etc. with a central system but I do not
    see how its practically enforceable.

    There apparently is not a rules file for this echo, unfortunately.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Andrew Clarke on Sat Feb 13 22:44:24 2021
    On 14 Feb 21 05:47:28, Andrew Clarke said the following to All:

    I have no idea whether your real name is Nick Andre. It probably is but I d not care.

    Its "real sounding" enough. :-)

    The "real names" policy of some FidoNet echos has always revolved around elitist gatekeeping nonsense and is completely unenforcable, now more than ever.

    More like began as formality back in the day and just stuck as tradition.

    Not every Fido echo is real-names only and not every echo is on the Elist...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to andrew clarke on Sun Feb 14 07:27:20 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, andrew!

    13 Feb 2021 21:39:50, you wrote to All:

    The FTSC could always be disbanded if it cannot serve its purpose?
    Just so long as the web-site is kept up, I don't see much
    difference.
    I have no strong opinion on whether the FTSC should still exist, but
    the FTSC web site's operation as a document repository has long been superceded by superiour web hosts where that is their primary purpose,

    The difference is only in their popularity. Obvious enough, the FTN documents are not something that consumes many resourses - there are just some requests per day served from nginx RAM cache (yes, I have plenty of memory there).

    like SourceForge, GitHub and GitLab.

    These are primarily the git repositories. I'd be happy to use git for all our needs several years ago (when I was a member of the FTSC), but some old farts appeared unable to learn ever more simple things than git and gpg.

    So to save on hosting costs

    I wouldn't go bankrupt whether I'd spend 0.01 RUB on it again. I have a number of servers with a plenty of resources, so those 17 Mb for the ${subj} are very hard to notice in a total load.

    (and the risk of ftsc.org expiring etc)

    This is the only real risk.

    I suggest decomissioning the current FTSC web site and hosting
    all the FTSC documents on GitHub, and uploading a snapshot to
    Archive.org.

    GitHub is distrusted (they are known to wipe whole projects due to politically "unreliable" people rarticipating there), so it could serve only as a mirror. Anyway, to do that we have to start using git, so here's a question: out of all candidates, who is familiar with it?

    Then if anyone still wants to go to the trouble of keeping the
    ftsc.org domain & web site alive they can redirect web visitors to
    the GitHub repo instead.

    Fidonet is didstributed, so should be the storage. Git seems to be a good solution, but we should avoid using any and all centralized services.

    Once we had the fidonet.net domain. In order to keep people away from using it as the only source of actual connection information, we had to let it expire (some people, including me, knew all the necessary bank reqs, but nobody had paid for it) and being squatted.

    Current ${subj} is a bit unfriendly to a search engines, but it's very friendly to mirroring software like wget. That's not what we could have with git, but it allows anyone to keep their own FTSC documents archive.

    The Wikipedia entry for FidoNet could also point to both the
    GitHub repo and archive.org snapshot, since they're fairly relevant.

    Seems unwise. Keeping ftsc.org and adding some mirrors would be mush better.

    Hosting all the FTSC documents on GitHub would be particularly useful since it would allow anyone to write bug reports or file "issues"
    relating to the various FidoNet standards documents, which may help
    any future developers. (Or historians...)

    "FidoNet is our primary mode of communication" // (q)

    So all reports should go here, to the FTSC_PUBLIC echoarea. Also, git can work over a netmail...

    Spoken as a former maintainer of the ftsc.org web site, several years
    ago.

    Answering as a current hoster of it, just now :-)

    I see it's still using the same layout and colour scheme. :)

    I've changed (wrote new) only the documents listing engine.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Björn Felten on Sun Feb 14 07:31:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, Björn!

    13 Feb 2021 15:51:54, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    Perhaps he's afraid for anyone to know his real name? Wouldn't be
    unusual for a troll such as him to want to hide in the shadows.
    Well, true enough. But to his defence I'd like to add that Google
    has breached our barricades, so now every message where our true
    names occur can end up in a Google search.

    Guess where does it get the messages...

    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

    Just a hint.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 02:21:53 2021
    Hello Carol!

    13 Feb 21 17:43, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    I'm confused too. Lets see if Andrew can find it. I do not recall it being sent in nor do I have archives back to 2019.

    I have FSP-1042.001 draft 6 here. As soon as the election is over with, we can get back to work on it.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Dan Clough on Sun Feb 14 03:21:43 2021
    Hello Dan!

    13 Feb 21 19:42, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    Yes, real names. Oli is just being obstinant.

    OK, thanks for that. So, real names are required, unless one is "obstinant"? Then they don't have to follow the rules? Is that it?

    That is not correct.

    Who's the moderator, and (again), why is this allowed to continue?

    I, as the FTSC Administrator, am the moderator of this echo. Unfortunately, for the reasons posted earlier by Nick Andre, it is difficult to enforce echo rules, and even more difficult or impossible to cut the feed to a repeated offender.

    Andrew


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 14 03:28:47 2021
    Hello Alexey!

    14 Feb 21 07:27, you wrote to andrew clarke:

    These are primarily the git repositories. I'd be happy to use git for
    all our needs several years ago (when I was a member of the FTSC), but some old farts appeared unable to learn ever more simple things than
    git and gpg.

    I'm certainly open to maintaining the document library via a git repository.

    So to save on hosting costs

    I wouldn't go bankrupt whether I'd spend 0.01 RUB on it again. I have
    a number of servers with a plenty of resources, so those 17 Mb for the ${subj} are very hard to notice in a total load.

    (and the risk of ftsc.org expiring etc)

    This is the only real risk.

    I've got this under control; the US $16.88 per year is unlikely to bankrupt me either.

    I suggest decomissioning the current FTSC web site and hosting
    all the FTSC documents on GitHub, and uploading a snapshot to
    Archive.org.

    GitHub is distrusted (they are known to wipe whole projects due to politically "unreliable" people rarticipating there), so it could
    serve only as a mirror. Anyway, to do that we have to start using git,
    so here's a question: out of all candidates, who is familiar with it?

    I'm not officially a candidate yet, but I am familiar with git; I use it for mbsebbs, among other things.

    Then if anyone still wants to go to the trouble of keeping the
    ftsc.org domain & web site alive they can redirect web visitors
    to the GitHub repo instead.

    Fidonet is didstributed, so should be the storage. Git seems to be a
    good solution, but we should avoid using any and all centralized
    services.

    I don't see an issue with using something such as GitHub or GitLab; however it should not be the only archive for FTSC documents.

    Once we had the fidonet.net domain. In order to keep people away from using it as the only source of actual connection information, we had
    to let it expire (some people, including me, knew all the necessary
    bank reqs, but nobody had paid for it) and being squatted.

    Current ${subj} is a bit unfriendly to a search engines, but it's very friendly to mirroring software like wget. That's not what we could
    have with git, but it allows anyone to keep their own FTSC documents archive.

    True.

    The Wikipedia entry for FidoNet could also point to both the
    GitHub repo and archive.org snapshot, since they're fairly
    relevant.

    Seems unwise. Keeping ftsc.org and adding some mirrors would be mush better.

    I agree that the ftsc.org site should be maintained.

    Hosting all the FTSC documents on GitHub would be particularly
    useful since it would allow anyone to write bug reports or file
    "issues" relating to the various FidoNet standards documents,
    which may help any future developers. (Or historians...)

    "FidoNet is our primary mode of communication" // (q)

    So all reports should go here, to the FTSC_PUBLIC echoarea. Also, git
    can work over a netmail...

    Agreed.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Tom De Puysseleyr@2:292/8125 to Andrew Leary on Sun Feb 14 11:09:05 2021
    Andrew,

    02 Feb 21 02:33, you wrote to All:

    The following members' terms expire on 11 Mar 2021:
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I hereby nominate Nick Andre.



    Tom

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: BrainDeath BBS (2:292/8125)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Tom De Puysseleyr on Sun Feb 14 06:47:34 2021
    Hello Tom!

    14 Feb 21 11:09, you wrote to me:

    @TZUTC: 0100
    @CHRS: CP437 2
    @MSGID: 2:292/8125 6028f752
    @REPLY: 1:320/219@fidonet 6019016a
    Andrew,

    02 Feb 21 02:33, you wrote to All:

    The following members' terms expire on 11 Mar 2021:
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I hereby nominate Nick Andre.

    ACK.

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Tom De Puysseleyr on Sun Feb 14 08:15:06 2021
    On 14 Feb 21 11:09:05, Tom De Puysseleyr said the following to Andrew Leary:

    The following members' terms expire on 11 Mar 2021:
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I hereby nominate Nick Andre.

    I accept.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Andrew Leary on Sun Feb 14 08:01:00 2021
    Andrew Leary wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Yes, real names. Oli is just being obstinant.

    OK, thanks for that. So, real names are required, unless one is "obstinant"? Then they don't have to follow the rules? Is that it?

    That is not correct.

    Well, effectively speaking, it is. The evidence is right before us.

    Who's the moderator, and (again), why is this allowed to continue?

    I, as the FTSC Administrator, am the moderator of this echo. Unfortunately, for the reasons posted earlier by Nick Andre, it
    is difficult to enforce echo rules, and even more difficult or
    impossible to cut the feed to a repeated offender.

    I understand that. Have you, as the moderator, told this offender,
    either publicly or privately, that he is violating the rules? While it
    is certainly *difficult* to enforce the rules, that's not the same thing
    as *not* *even* *trying* to enforce the rules.

    At least make the token effort? It's a process.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 08:33:00 2021
    Hello Carol,

    On Thu Feb 11 2021 22:03:16, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Well Nick B, With no propsals, our 'work' has been helping people understand how to MAKE one.

    The last couple of proposals that I remember coming through here, ended up going through a rigorous spelling and grammar checking, and once they could not be almost completely reworded any more, they were forgotten and never brought up again.

    Ozz had a lot of problems with no modern guides. Modern developers
    aren't passing new guides to those who can follow suit. We have
    'pipeline development' now.

    Some of these modern developers (Synchronet, Husky, for example) have documented their own software fully. One only has to go to the wiki to see it all. Why would they want to burden themselves documenting their own software, and then writing up proposals and or documentation for the FTSC when they're not a member, and probably don't want to be one?

    Modern tech tells us that is a dead end eventually.

    I'm not sure what modern tech is telling you this, but "---SBBSecho 2.11-Win32" is 10-15 years old now. If you don't keep up with modern tech, I'm not sure how you can use it as an excuse for anything.

    Some of us are helping developers with how to get the 'word out' and
    then we see what works.

    I'd really hope Stas will help at least with some tech to smartphones
    IOS if I got right. I'd like to see somthing from the Mystic
    developer and to see SBBS actually submit suggested implementation proposals would be excellent.

    My point is, why should they have to submit anything? They're doing the work on their own softwares, and documenting it quite nicely. There is absolutely no reason to burden them with twice the amount of work. It's the FTSC's job to document for Fidonet, not theirs.

    Technically SBBS is open source but that doesnt mean others know the basics to find it.

    No but any current FTSC members should know how to find it. If they don't, they probably shouldn't be FTSC members.

    So, any better ideas? With no repository on 'how-to' we leave all developers hanging and we die. It doesnt MATTER if it is a proposal
    or raised to a standard just now. It needs to be where they can find
    it.

    It is where they can find it. They're just not looking.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 08:47:34 2021
    Hello Carol,

    On Thu Feb 11 2021 22:18:38, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Stas Mishchenkov:

    Lol! pass what you can to us. We can always take a proposal and work with you on it if formatting is a help. Many of us can help with technical wording if there is confusion.

    So are you saying the FTSC is basically a glorified spell/grammar/formatting checker now? And that the developers not only need to document their software, but also should do the leg work for the FTSC so all you have to do is look over it and add your suggestions? GTFOH.

    If the FTSC "documents current practice", then he should only have to document what he's doing, for his software.

    If you, or any other FTSC member thinks it's "current practice", then YOU/FTSC document it for Fidonet. Make sense?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Feb 14 08:57:02 2021
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Fri Feb 12 2021 15:19:24, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Oli:

    A couple of years back there was someone who put together a document describing the different pkt formats in use. It was discussed here,
    but I don't know what happend to it, because the name it was given:

    Publication: FSP-1040 draft 3
    Revision: 1
    Title: Packet Type 2 Compatible Formats
    Author: Stephen Hurd 1:103/1
    Date: 2016-02-11

    That was me, I believe. Because Stephen Hurd already knew where it would end up with the FTSC. And he was right. 3+ drafts of spelling/grammar checks, and ended up on the backburner, and eventually in the bit bucket. I learned my lesson quickly.

    Is now in use for a different FSP:

    fsp-1040.001 SRIF file request interface

    Sounds about right!

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Rob Swindell on Sun Feb 14 09:00:34 2021
    Hello Rob,

    On Fri Feb 12 2021 16:28:06, Rob Swindell wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    Multiple drafts were rejected for reasons the author didn't agree with (e.g. draft spec had to be submitted by splitting the text among
    multiple echomail messages, per stone-age FTSC submission
    requirements). So he gave up the effort and the FTSC discarded a rare high-quality technical contribution. Or at least, that's my
    recollection. https://nix.synchro.net/msgs/msg.ssjs?msg_sub=fidoftscpub&message=7380

    Sounds about right. ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 09:17:36 2021
    Hello Carol,

    On Sat Feb 13 2021 17:16:34, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Rob Swindell:

    Here's my attempt at a modern FTN spec:
    https://wiki.synchro.net/ref:fidonet_packets

    Submit then!

    It was, 2+ years ago. :|

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Helmut Renner@2:313/41 to Oli on Sat Feb 13 19:58:16 2021
    Servus Oli!

    Antwort auf eine Message von Oli an Helmut Renner:

    if they want to do the work - I'm absolutely ok with that ;)

    the work?

    If you don't recognize their wort, they do it well :)


    Baba
    DonHelmi/2

    --- FleetStreet 1.27.3.8d
    * Origin: DonHelmi's Datendienst (2:313/41)
  • From Nil Alexandrov@2:5015/46 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Feb 14 22:55:44 2021
    Hello, Nicholas!

    Sunday February 14 2021 09:17, from Nicholas Boel -> Carol Shenkenberger:

    Here's my attempt at a modern FTN spec:
    https://wiki.synchro.net/ref:fidonet_packets

    Submit then!

    It was, 2+ years ago. :|

    That's right. There's no fakken way to modify the baseline FTS-0001 document in order to cleanup that historical shut and make it a bit friendly for a new FTN developer when it comes to data structures, e.g. 72 bytes for subject line whether it includes the terminal zero byte or not.

    Best Regards, Nil
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: -=NIL BBS=- (2:5015/46)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Dan Clough on Sun Feb 14 15:45:50 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Dan Clough to Carol Shenkenberger on Sat Feb 13 2021 07:42 pm

    Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Are real names required in this Fidonet echo?

    Yes, real names. Oli is just being obstinant.

    OK, thanks for that. So, real names are required, unless one is "obstinant"? Then they don't have to follow the rules? Is that it?

    Who's the moderator, and (again), why is this allowed to continue?



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    I suspect by defaulr it is Andrew Leary?

    I don't mind Oli too much but it's obviously a handle. Impression is if you havent the honesty tp post with a real name, 'why should we listen'?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Andrew Leary on Sun Feb 14 15:48:27 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Andrew Leary to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 2021 02:21 am

    Hello Carol!

    13 Feb 21 17:43, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    I'm confused too. Lets see if Andrew can find it. I do not recall it being sent in nor do I have archives back to 2019.

    I have FSP-1042.001 draft 6 here. As soon as the election is over with, we can get back to work on it.

    Andrew


    Good. Need a RC recommendation still for you?

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nicholas Boel on Sun Feb 14 15:53:07 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Nicholas Boel to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 2021 08:33 am

    Hello Carol,

    On Thu Feb 11 2021 22:03:16, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    Well Nick B, With no propsals, our 'work' has been helping people understand how to MAKE one.

    The last couple of proposals that I remember coming through here, ended up going through a rigorous spelling and grammar checking, and once they could be almost completely reworded any more, they were forgotten and never brough up again.

    Ozz had a lot of problems with no modern guides. Modern developers aren't passing new guides to those who can follow suit. We have 'pipeline development' now.

    Some of these modern developers (Synchronet, Husky, for example) have documented their own software fully. One only has to go to the wiki to see i all. Why would they want to burden themselves documenting their own software and then writing up proposals and or documentation for the FTSC when they're not a member, and probably don't want to be one?

    Modern tech tells us that is a dead end eventually.

    I'm not sure what modern tech is telling you this, but "---SBBSecho 2.11-Win is 10-15 years old now. If you don't keep up with modern tech, I'm not sure you can use it as an excuse for anything.

    Some of us are helping developers with how to get the 'word out' and then we see what works.

    I'd really hope Stas will help at least with some tech to smartphones IOS if I got right. I'd like to see somthing from the Mystic
    developer and to see SBBS actually submit suggested implementation proposals would be excellent.

    My point is, why should they have to submit anything? They're doing the work their own softwares, and documenting it quite nicely. There is absolutely no reason to burden them with twice the amount of work. It's the FTSC's job to document for Fidonet, not theirs.

    Technically SBBS is open source but that doesnt mean others know the basics to find it.

    No but any current FTSC members should know how to find it. If they don't, t probably shouldn't be FTSC members.

    So, any better ideas? With no repository on 'how-to' we leave all developers hanging and we die. It doesnt MATTER if it is a proposal
    or raised to a standard just now. It needs to be where they can find it.

    It is where they can find it. They're just not looking.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."

    Nick, we are talking OTHER developers may not know where to find it.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Andrew Leary on Sun Feb 14 15:55:27 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Andrew Leary to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 2021 02:21 am

    Hello Carol!

    13 Feb 21 17:43, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    I'm confused too. Lets see if Andrew can find it. I do not recall it being sent in nor do I have archives back to 2019.

    I have FSP-1042.001 draft 6 here. As soon as the election is over with, we can get back to work on it.

    Andrew


    Good. I simply do not recall a 2016 draft in 2021.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Tom De Puysseleyr on Sun Feb 14 15:57:58 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Tom De Puysseleyr to Andrew Leary on Sun Feb 14 2021 11:09 am

    Andrew,

    02 Feb 21 02:33, you wrote to All:

    The following members' terms expire on 11 Mar 2021:
    Nick Andre 1:229/426

    I hereby nominate Nick Andre.



    Tom


    Thanks! Needed that.
    xxcarol

    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Rob Swindell to Nicholas Boel on Sun Feb 14 13:53:59 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election - Term Expirations
    By: Nicholas Boel to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Feb 14 2021 09:17 am

    Hello Carol,

    On Sat Feb 13 2021 17:16:34, Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Rob Swindell:

    Here's my attempt at a modern FTN spec:
    https://wiki.synchro.net/ref:fidonet_packets

    Submit then!

    It was, 2+ years ago. :|

    Well, to be fair, that's a different document (though same subject matter). I didn't have a hand in Stephen Hurd's FSP.
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Nick Andre on Sun Feb 14 18:19:25 2021
    Hello Nick!

    14 Feb 21 08:15, you wrote to Tom De Puysseleyr:

    I hereby nominate Nick Andre.

    I accept.

    ACK.

    Andrew
    FTSC Election Coordinator

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 14 19:23:00 2021
    Hello Alexey Vissarionov!

    ** On Friday 05.02.21 - 07:40, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to August Abolins:

    Good ${greeting_time}, August!

    04 Feb 2021 20:56:00, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    Name Node
    Andrew Leary 1:320/219
    mark lewis 1:3634/12
    Richard Menedetter 2:310/31
    Carol Shenkenberger 1:275/100
    Ozz Nixon 1:275/362
    Nick Andre 1:229/426
    ^^^^^^^
    Please fix the quoting.

    What's wrong with it? The original that I replied to already
    had one level of >'s. My Quoting added one more level of >'s,
    and your's added another column of >'s. This reply generates a
    4th. Things seem to work OK. ;)


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to August Abolins on Mon Feb 15 04:35:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, August!

    14 Feb 2021 19:23:00, you wrote to me:

    Nick Andre 1:229/426
    ^^^^^^^
    Please fix the quoting.
    What's wrong with it? The original that I replied to already
    had one level of >'s. My Quoting added one more level of >'s,
    and your's added another column of >'s. This reply generates a
    4th. Things seem to work OK. ;)

    More '>' symbols are normally added to the end of quoting prefix, before the quoted text. So "AA> text" becomes "AA>> text", not "> AA> text" or whatever.


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 14 21:27:00 2021
    Hello Alexey Vissarionov!

    ** On Monday 15.02.21 - 04:35, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to August Abolins:

    Nick Andre 1:229/426
    ^^^^^^^
    Please fix the quoting.


    What's wrong with it? The original that I replied to
    already had one level of >'s. My Quoting added one more
    level of >'s, and your's added another column of >'s. This
    reply generates a 4th. Things seem to work OK. ;)

    More '>' symbols are normally added to the end of quoting
    prefix, before the quoted text. So "AA> text" becomes "AA>>
    text", not "> AA> text" or whatever.

    Noted. Yes.. tradition would have the >'s after some pair of
    initials. BUT, Carol's reply didn't have any initials in her
    quoted parts. If my editor encounters a quoted line that has no
    initials, it doesn't arbitrarily assume what initials they ought
    to be.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Feb 15 16:37:50 2021
    14 Feb 21 07:27, you wrote to me:

    These are primarily the git repositories. I'd be happy to use git for
    all our needs several years ago (when I was a member of the FTSC), but some old farts appeared unable to learn ever more simple things than git and gpg.

    An old English phrase springs to mind: "You can't teach old dogs new tricks." :-)

    GitHub is distrusted (they are known to wipe whole projects due to politically "unreliable" people rarticipating there), so it could serve only as a mirror.

    "Perfect is the enemy of good" - Voltaire

    I have no issue with GitHub and the likelyhood of an FTSC repo being shut down by GitHub is essentially zero, and even if it's non-zero, the point of any repo is that its users have local copies, so it can always be restored one way or another.

    Anyway, to do that we have to start using git, so here's a question:
    out of all candidates, who is familiar with it?

    Even if not, Git takes 10 minutes to learn if you're familar with CVS or Subversion. Obviously longer if you've never used revision control software before. But I'd like to think all the nominated FTSC members have at least some knowledge of what revision control is, but who knows around here. :-)

    Current ${subj} is a bit unfriendly to a search engines, but it's very friendly to mirroring software like wget. That's not what we could have with git, but it allows anyone to keep their own FTSC documents archive.

    It's pretty rare anyone needs every document.

    In any case "git clone xyz" will download them all, probably quicker than wget can mirror them, and you get a complete log of ever commit.

    The Wikipedia entry for FidoNet could also point to both the
    GitHub repo and archive.org snapshot, since they're fairly
    relevant.

    Seems unwise. Keeping ftsc.org and adding some mirrors would be mush better.

    So keep it, but the point I was getting at is that an FTSC repo should encourage feedback, bug reports etc. GitHub (and the other sites like it) give you all that for free.

    Hosting all the FTSC documents on GitHub would be particularly
    useful since it would allow anyone to write bug reports or file
    "issues" relating to the various FidoNet standards documents, which
    may help any future developers. (Or historians...)

    "FidoNet is our primary mode of communication" // (q)

    So all reports should go here, to the FTSC_PUBLIC echoarea. Also, git
    can work over a netmail...

    The FTSC should not be in the business of restricting the discussion of its own documents to be within the bounds of FidoNet.

    In any case FTSC_PUBLIC is awful for bug reports in comparison to something like GitHub.

    Among other things, it:

    - is not really public, or is essentially invisible to public without considerable effort
    - has no archive
    - has no search, so the same problems get asked
    - has no way to resolve/close bug reports
    - requires readers to skip non-technical posts (just like this one); particularly every single dreaded message about FTSC membership/nominations/voting/etc that are all nonsense to anyone only interested in actual technical work


    Not directed at Alexey:

    It used to be the technical discussions were in NET_DEV. I assume for some reason that echo died, not my connection to it. But the same questions got asked over and over there too, mostly because nobody kept a long-term record of anything except for the FTSC, who only ever published standards and never any annotations/addendums/clarifications.

    Eg. a common thread was how to implement FTS-9 (MSGID/REPLY) properly since it was was so open to interpretation (and probably still is). (This is only an example, not an invitation to mansplain MSGID/REPLY to me.)

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Dan Clough on Mon Feb 15 16:50:50 2021
    13 Feb 21 20:04, you wrote to Oli:

    Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
    hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?

    Why should he?

    Aren't we all hiding /something/?

    What if he used a fake name that sounded real?

    How do you know lots of us aren't doing that already?

    I mean, you don't.

    Is the point just to encourage people to use convincing names that don't sound fake? I mean realistically that's the best you can ask for, right?

    But for what? What actual difference does it make?

    This whole real name obsession is bonkers.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 15 11:42:40 2021
    Nick wrote (2021-02-12):

    On 12 Feb 21 14:50:41, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    Calling someone a troll is your definition of being polite?

    You are a troll who

    no, YOU are the troll ... ;)

    (A) Started random shit with me quite some time ago
    because "you can" and

    .... who is living in his own reality distortion field. One of the last times you tried to troll me we weren't even in any discussion nor was my mail about you. But because "you can" you have no problem throwing sexist shit at people out of nowhere:

    So what? Are you that insecure about yourself?

    We can find some cranberry juice and Midol for your period, sweetheart.

    Everything you accuse others of is exactly the BS you are doing. Should I compile a best of nasty things Nick Andre the troll said?

    (B) Tries to take me to task technically but can't.

    You rather derail the discussion than engage in the technical details. The "very stable genius" move?

    So you invent things to whine about, like this:

    (question). Why is the FTSC unable to publish an FTS for the packet
    format(s in use for decades? I start to believe that some members of
    the FTSC don't even understand the difference between FTS-0001 F.1.
    and what's in use today

    How is that an invention? See, FSC-0039/45/48 and discussions about FSP-1042.

    If you believe the FTSC does not live up to your expectations, then do something about it and get involved instead of running your mouth. Nobody is stopping you. ...

    That is such an cheap excuse. The FTSC is exactly there for documenting standards in use. Asking people to elect you as an FTSC member and than throwing up your hands telling everyone you're not responsible for anything and rather do nothing than [something worse than nothing] only shows that you are more interested in wearing another hat than in the work the FTSC should be doing.

    to be continued ...

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 15 11:43:02 2021
    .... continuance

    Nick wrote (2021-02-12):

    ... Kindof like what you were told recently by the Husky guys.

    How is that different than your comment about semaphores in BINKD?

    I asked for the same thing over the years. I'm wondering why the
    arrogance insist that we kill things by Pid instead of telling
    the program to exit gracefully.

    You could have easily fixed it yourself. But did it matter? In the end digital man discovered and fixed a simple bug. Everybody's happy.

    At the moment andrew clarke is doing excellent work in opening a can of worms that leads back to the Squish MsgAPI. For me it all started when Wilfred and mark lewis told me about problems with Squish and dupes in the MUFFIN echo.

    Subject: Squish on Linux (compile errors)
    Date: 21 Nov 2019 20:44:25 +0100
    MSGID: 2:280/464 5dd6ea30
    There's also the problem that the squish message base stores date/time stamps with a resolution of 2 seconds. That has been causing problems in the past where a squish system forwarded messages to its other links with the date/times changed from the original, and so causing undetected dupes on some systems.

    Date: 22 Nov 2019 19:19:14 -0500
    MSGID: 1:3634/12.73 5dd87e2e
    we specifically tracked
    this modified time stamp problem down several years ago... every message coming via squish had the seconds in multiples of two... no odd numbers
    at all...

    By reading the Squish Developer Kit documentation and some test that theory turned out to be wrong for the Squish tosser. There is also this remark in Squish's msgapi.h:

    byte __ftsc_date[20];
    /* Obsolete date information. If it weren't for the *
    * fact that FTSC standards say that one cannot *
    * modify an in-transit message, I'd be VERY *
    * tempted to axe this field entirely, and recreate *
    * an FTSC-compatible date field using *
    * the information in 'date_written' upon *
    * export. Nobody should use this field, except *
    * possibly for tossers and scanners. All others *
    * should use one of the two binary datestamps, *
    * above. */


    But I also didn't believe that Wilfred and mark just invented a problem that never existed. Maybe another tosser that supports Squish message bases? Husky's hpt was the most obvious first candidate to look at. Tests with pass-through / one-pass tossing didn't show any problems. But later I could reproduce the problem by rescanning mails from a Squish message base ("%RESCAN AREA"). The newest finding is that hpt also modifies the time stamp for rescanned mails from a JAM message base.

    If you think this is all motivated by an urge to troll people, you really should check your definition of trolling. But I doubt you care. You're throwing shit at the wall until something sticks.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to mark lewis on Mon Feb 15 12:06:43 2021
    mark wrote (2021-02-13):

    I found a flaw in the document a while back, I don't remember the
    specifics now, but if I can't review the current draft, how am I
    supposed to know if the flaw has been addressed or not?

    well, you wouldn't know... hopefully it was found but it is possible it has not yet been discovered... the document is still on the desk... i can't really say more and may have already said too much... i've not yet been reprimanded by any other FTSC members but i'm going to hold off posting more...

    This seems a bit of a silly process. 5 years since 2016. Mysterious things are being done behind the scenes. FTSC members don't even know about it or pretend to know nothing about it? Why not use an transparent, public and open process like the IETF and XSF. They are getting things done.

    Even a not so perfect and not final proposal(!) for a documentation of Type 2+/.2 packet headers is better than what you can find on today's ftsc.org site.

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Bjrn Felten on Mon Feb 15 12:12:07 2021
    Björn wrote (2021-02-13):

    I think I found one omission: The value from "month" in the Type 2(+)
    packet header is "0-11 for Jan-Dec" (in contrast to 1-31 for "day" of
    month). This isn't mentioned in Stephen's draft.

    WOW! What an extraordinary sharp-eyed find! You really should earn a place in the now defunct FTSC

    WOW! A place in a defunct organization, that would be some achievement, but (quoting Martin Foster): "you're forgetting something"

    ---
    * Origin: . (2:280/464.47)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Oli on Mon Feb 15 08:16:44 2021
    On 15 Feb 21 11:43:02, Oli said the following to Nick Andre:

    If you think this is all motivated by an urge to troll people, you really should check your definition of trolling. But I doubt you care. You're throwing shit at the wall until something sticks.

    Anyone who feels the urge to reply with two long messages of effeminate quoted nonsense has a serious mental problem.

    End of thread, Bono.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to andrew clarke on Mon Feb 15 19:42:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, andrew!

    15 Feb 2021 16:37:50, you wrote to me:

    These are primarily the git repositories. I'd be happy to use git
    for all our needs several years ago (when I was a member of the
    FTSC), but some old farts appeared unable to learn ever more simple
    things than git and gpg.
    An old English phrase springs to mind: "You can't teach old dogs new tricks." :-)

    So these dogs should be barking somewhere away.

    GitHub is distrusted (they are known to wipe whole projects due to
    politically "unreliable" people rarticipating there), so it could
    serve only as a mirror.
    "Perfect is the enemy of good" - Voltaire

    "Nothing is perfect" (q) someone else

    I have no issue with GitHub and the likelyhood of an FTSC repo being
    shut down by GitHub is essentially zero, and even if it's non-zero,
    the point of any repo is that its users have local copies, so it can always be restored one way or another.

    Personally I dislike the very idea of using some centralized service.

    Anyway, to do that we have to start using git, so here's a question:
    out of all candidates, who is familiar with it?
    Even if not, Git takes 10 minutes to learn if you're familar with CVS
    or Subversion. Obviously longer if you've never used revision control software before.

    Only for the most trivial tasks and personal use. Collaboration using git appears to be a sort of art...

    But I'd like to think all the nominated FTSC members have at least
    some knowledge of what revision control is, but who knows around
    here. :-)

    I exactly know there are some who would very likely fail doing that.

    Current ${subj} is a bit unfriendly to a search engines, but it's
    very friendly to mirroring software like wget. That's not what we
    could have with git, but it allows anyone to keep their own FTSC
    documents archive.
    It's pretty rare anyone needs every document.

    Yes. But the storage space is cheap, so there's a good reason to mirror everything.

    In any case "git clone xyz" will download them all, probably quicker
    than wget can mirror them,

    No.

    and you get a complete log of ever commit.

    Yes, and this is the main advantage.

    The Wikipedia entry for FidoNet could also point to both the
    GitHub repo and archive.org snapshot, since they're fairly
    relevant.
    Seems unwise. Keeping ftsc.org and adding some mirrors would be
    much better.
    So keep it, but the point I was getting at is that an FTSC repo
    should encourage feedback, bug reports etc. GitHub (and the other
    sites like it) give you all that for free.

    Feedback and bug reports could be published in the echoareas. Everything else may be done with git itself.

    Also, the use of GitHub creates a single point of failure (for example, they would process "DMCA shutdown" requests, while I can safely trash this shit exactly as I did before with hundreds of such requests). That means even if we lose one of mirrors, there would remain other resources.

    Hosting all the FTSC documents on GitHub would be particularly
    useful since it would allow anyone to write bug reports or file
    "issues" relating to the various FidoNet standards documents,
    which may help any future developers. (Or historians...)
    "FidoNet is our primary mode of communication" // (q)
    So all reports should go here, to the FTSC_PUBLIC echoarea. Also,
    git can work over a netmail...
    The FTSC should not be in the business of restricting the discussion
    of its own documents to be within the bounds of FidoNet.

    The "F" in "FTSC" stays for "Fidonet".

    In any case FTSC_PUBLIC is awful for bug reports in comparison to something like GitHub.

    Among other things, it:
    - is not really public, or is essentially invisible to public without considerable effort

    One message to areafix.

    - has no archive

    One more message to areafix.

    - has no search, so the same problems get asked

    That's the task of a message reading software.

    - has no way to resolve/close bug reports

    The FTSC doesn't develop anything, so here should be no bug reports. Even when some documents may contain errors, they could be fixed without any bug tracking facility.

    - requires readers to skip non-technical posts (just like this one)

    I see you're using Golded. Have you tried pressing the "/" key while reading messages? :-)


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... :wq!
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to andrew clarke on Mon Feb 15 13:21:00 2021
    Hello andrew clarke!

    ** On Sunday 14.02.21 - 01:27, andrew clarke wrote to All:

    I've uploaded an unofficial(*) repo here:

    https://github.com/zoomosis/ftsc

    That is very nice! The search is wonderful. It even seems to
    do boolean searches.

    It found "^apath" in all 8 documents. The search @ftsc.org
    found none; I had to enter "apath" without the caret to get the
    a positive search.

    But a nice feature of the ftsc.org search is that it lists the
    titles of the documents next to the doc number in the results
    list.

    Can github be adjusted to do the same?

    (*) I am not an FTSC member

    Thanks for the initiative of the github thing.

    Is there a similar (and free) thing that is designed for
    managing document versions? (and not one that is designed for
    code?)

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Rob Swindell to Oli on Mon Feb 15 12:00:15 2021
    Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Oli to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 15 2021 11:43 am

    How is that different than your comment about semaphores in BINKD?

    I asked for the same thing over the years. I'm wondering why the arrogance insist that we kill things by Pid instead of telling
    the program to exit gracefully.

    You could have easily fixed it yourself. But did it matter? In the end digital man discovered and fixed a simple bug. Everybody's happy.

    I'm not sure I fixed anything as Nick never provided any test reports. <shrug>
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to andrew clarke on Mon Feb 15 13:56:00 2021
    andrew clarke wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
    hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?

    Why should he?

    I've already answered this. Read the thread and try to keep up.

    <SNIP repetitive drivel>



    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Rob Swindell on Mon Feb 15 15:11:43 2021
    On 15 Feb 21 12:00:15, Rob Swindell said the following to Oli:

    I'm not sure I fixed anything as Nick never provided any test reports. <shr

    I haven't had the time yet. I'm sure its fine.

    I did email you about an aspect of the Zmodem spec, did you get that?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Rob Swindell to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 15 12:36:22 2021
    Re: Re: 2021 FTSC Standing Member Election -
    By: Nick Andre to Rob Swindell on Mon Feb 15 2021 03:11 pm

    On 15 Feb 21 12:00:15, Rob Swindell said the following to Oli:

    I'm not sure I fixed anything as Nick never provided any test reports. <shr

    I haven't had the time yet. I'm sure its fine.

    I did email you about an aspect of the Zmodem spec, did you get that?

    I didn't see it cause it inexplicably ended up in my junk folder. I'll reply now.
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to Dan Clough on Tue Feb 16 13:03:48 2021
    15 Feb 21 13:56, you wrote to me:

    Would you mind telling *WHY* you won't use a proper name? Are you
    hiding something? Afraid of something? Why?

    Why should he?

    I've already answered this. Read the thread and try to keep up.

    I read your personal vendetta towards Oli where you began by calling him an asshole.

    I also read your strong assertion that real names are required here despite only a single reassurance that was true from Carol, both of you ignoring the fact that the rules of this echo (that nobody has objected to) that have only been posted here since 2019-04-21 make no mention of it.

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Rob Swindell on Mon Feb 15 21:25:07 2021
    On 15 Feb 21 12:36:22, Rob Swindell said the following to Nick Andre:

    I did email you about an aspect of the Zmodem spec, did you get that?

    I didn't see it cause it inexplicably ended up in my junk folder. I'll repl now.

    Got it, thanks.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dan Clough on Mon Feb 15 22:20:00 2021
    Hello Dan Clough!

    ** On Saturday 13.02.21 - 19:57, Dan Clough wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    ...Persons posting to Fidonet echos are supposed to be
    using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a
    Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no difference.
    They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.

    I don't think there is a hard n fast rule that states all of
    Fidonet = Real Names, anywhere. It has probably just been a
    kind of tradition and expectation over the years.

    [1] Where does the assumption that a real name must be both
    first name and lastname originate or found in documentation?
    Oli seems real to me especially because of [2].

    [2] Oli isn't exactly not real. His messages include a point
    address. That point address is traceable to the Z2PNT segment
    of the nodelist. There his full name is broadcast in all its
    glory.

    [3] But even your name isn't consistent across other FTNs:

    It's Dan Clough for:

    Palantir BBS, Pensacola FL USA 1:123/115
    Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 21:2/138
    Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 77:1/114

    But it's Daniel Clough for:

    Palantir BBS, Cantonment FL 618:250/24

    So, I say give Oli a break and be rest assured that Oli =
    Oliver, and we can live with Dan = Daniel. ;)


    --
    ../|ug = /|ugust



    --- OpenXP 5.0.48
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From andrew clarke@3:633/267 to August Abolins on Tue Feb 16 14:44:04 2021
    15 Feb 21 13:21, you wrote to me:

    I've uploaded an unofficial(*) repo here:

    https://github.com/zoomosis/ftsc

    That is very nice! The search is wonderful. It even seems to
    do boolean searches.

    Yes, "Advanced search" is great.

    It found "^apath" in all 8 documents. The search @ftsc.org
    found none; I had to enter "apath" without the caret to get the
    a positive search.

    But a nice feature of the ftsc.org search is that it lists the
    titles of the documents next to the doc number in the results
    list.

    Can github be adjusted to do the same?

    Probably not without renaming the files to include titles, which obviously isn't practical.

    (*) I am not an FTSC member

    Thanks for the initiative of the github thing.

    Is there a similar (and free) thing that is designed for
    managing document versions? (and not one that is designed for
    code?)

    Google Docs can do versioning but it's clunky.

    Git can handle binaries but "git diff" won't show you much for non-text documents, only that a file has changed:

    $ git diff
    diff --git a/foobar.pdf b/foobar.pdf
    index f5d671a..82ac402 100644
    Binary files a/foobar.pdf and b/foobar.pdf differ

    Conceivably a web site like GitHub could hook into the "diff" part to display something more useful, but a common alternative is to write your documents in MarkDown (which is basically just plain text with benefits). Then you only export to HTML/PDF when you need to. I use Pandoc for that.

    Obviously Markdown is not going to work for spreadsheets or graphics. Though I'm not sure how you'd represent "diff" of a spreadsheet or a graphics file anyway. :)

    --- GoldED+/BSD 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Blizzard of Ozz, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (3:633/267)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sat Feb 20 12:03:50 2021
    Guess where does it get the messages...

    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

    Just a hint.

    I seriously doubt that it gets the messages from my news server. If you can find a search result linking to my server, I'd be very interested to know.

    Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the benefit of my users.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Vague@1:3603/9999 to August Abolins on Sat Feb 20 18:09:00 2021
    August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    @MSGID: <602B3D6A.154.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <60288F10.100.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
    Hello Dan Clough!

    ** On Saturday 13.02.21 - 19:57, Dan Clough wrote to Wilfred van
    Velzen:

    ...Persons posting to Fidonet echos are supposed to be
    using real names. Whether they're a nodelisted Sysop, or a
    Point, or a normal user on a BBS, makes no difference.
    They're supposed to be using a real name. Simple.

    I don't think there is a hard n fast rule that states all of
    Fidonet = Real Names, anywhere. It has probably just been a
    kind of tradition and expectation over the years.

    [1] Where does the assumption that a real name must be both
    first name and lastname originate or found in documentation?
    Oli seems real to me especially because of [2].

    [2] Oli isn't exactly not real. His messages include a point
    address. That point address is traceable to the Z2PNT segment
    of the nodelist. There his full name is broadcast in all its
    glory.

    [3] But even your name isn't consistent across other FTNs:

    It's Dan Clough for:

    Palantir BBS, Pensacola FL USA 1:123/115
    Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 21:2/138
    Palantir BBS, Pensacola USA 77:1/114

    But it's Daniel Clough for:

    Palantir BBS, Cantonment FL 618:250/24

    So, I say give Oli a break and be rest assured that Oli =
    Oliver, and we can live with Dan = Daniel. ;)


    Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it specifically allows aliases? Cool.


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Vague on Sat Feb 20 20:41:34 2021
    On 20 Feb 21 18:09:00, Vague said the following to August Abolins:

    Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it specifica allows aliases? Cool.

    In an Othernet, its mostly cool. In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)
    ^^^^^^^^^
    I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Nick Andre on Sun Feb 21 01:54:20 2021
    -={ 2021-02-21 01:54:20.284248904+00:00 }=-

    Hey Nick!

    I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
    this yet

    If they are really nodelist police, let them show us their badges.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Come and see the violence inherent in the system.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 20:55:24 2021
    Re: Re: real names
    By: Nick Andre to Vague on Sat Feb 20 2021 20:41:34


    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)
    ^^^^^^^^^
    I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

    they did but apparently ""Vague"" hasn't been reading the replies and figured out how to change the system's originating address in all of his fidonet message bases' settings in his synchronet setup...


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Vague@1:3603/9999 to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 21:14:00 2021
    Nick Andre wrote to Vague <=-

    @MSGID: <6031BD66.173.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
    @REPLY: <6031991C.172.fidonet_ftscpubl@VAGUEBBS>
    On 20 Feb 21 18:09:00, Vague said the following to August Abolins:

    Hey guys! Are we talking about using real name on Fidonet when it
    pecifica
    allows aliases? Cool.

    In an Othernet, its mostly cool. In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires
    them though.

    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

    ^^^^^^^^^ I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

    Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything on my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why that would happen, please let me know.


    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Vague on Sat Feb 20 18:34:46 2021
    Re: Re: real names
    By: Vague to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 2021 09:14 pm

    Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why
    that would happen, please let me know.

    I have a guess for you if you'd like to look. In scfg..

    Message Areas -> Fidonet -> Go into any/all areas -> Network Options

    And see what AKA is set there and adjust if needed.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It's not the money I want, it's the stuff.
    --- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Vague on Sat Feb 20 22:24:30 2021
    On 20 Feb 21 21:14:00, Vague said the following to Nick Andre:

    Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why that would happen, pleas let me know.

    I have no idea, I don't run SBBS but likely something simple in whatever configures the message areas.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 20 22:25:13 2021
    On 21 Feb 21 01:54:20, Maurice Kinal said the following to Nick Andre:

    I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over
    this yet

    If they are really nodelist police, let them show us their badges.

    They do in Enet.Sysop...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Bj?rn Felten on Sun Feb 21 09:03:00 2021
    Good ${greeting_time}, Bj?rn!

    20 Feb 2021 12:03:50, you wrote to me:

    Guess where does it get the messages...
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
    Just a hint.
    I seriously doubt that it gets the messages from my news server.

    It gets the messages from everywhere in can reach.

    If you can find a search result linking to my server, I'd be very interested to know.

    Looking at your server's logs could be a wise idea.

    Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the benefit of my users.

    Are there any good reasons to use NNTP instead of native FTN software?


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 21 10:19:56 2021
    If you can find a search result linking to my server, I'd be very
    interested to know.

    Looking at your server's logs could be a wise idea.

    Looking for what?

    So you couldn't find anything then?


    Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the
    benefit of my users.

    Are there any good reasons to use NNTP instead of native FTN software?

    What? So you don't know the difference? Figures...



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Vague on Sun Feb 21 09:05:00 2021
    Vague wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:3603/9999)

    ^^^^^^^^^ I'm surprised the Nodelist Police haven't crucified you over this yet?

    Yeah, that is not how my origin line is set on my bbs. Literally everything on my end is set correctly (I just made sure before I
    wrote this). Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have
    any idea why that would happen, please let me know.

    Yeah.... Literally it's because your system is not configured
    correctly. It's literally not possible for it to be anything else but
    that. Yeah.



    ... Do you know where you are?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to Dan Clough on Sun Feb 21 10:10:18 2021
    Hello Dan,

    On Sun Feb 21 2021 09:05:00, Dan Clough wrote to Vague:

    Yeah.... Literally it's because your system is not configured
    correctly. It's literally not possible for it to be anything else but
    that. Yeah.

    Rather than being a complete dick to newer members. Why not try to offer some assistance on fixing the issue instead? This is just a hobby, after all.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From Vague@1:135/391 to Alan Ianson on Sun Feb 21 13:48:00 2021
    Alan Ianson wrote to Vague <=-

    @MSGID: <6031C7F4.177.fidonet_ftscpubl@20xd6>
    @REPLY: <6031C251.176.fidonet_ftscpubl@20xd6>
    Re: Re: real names
    By: Vague to Nick Andre on Sat Feb 20 2021 09:14 pm

    Why that is happening, I have no idea. If you have any idea why
    that would happen, please let me know.

    I have a guess for you if you'd like to look. In scfg..

    Message Areas -> Fidonet -> Go into any/all areas -> Network Options

    And see what AKA is set there and adjust if needed.

    That was is. Each individual area had to be changed independently. Thank you!


    ... That's just incredible! As in... it's just not credible.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
    * Origin: Vague BBS - Vague.ddns.net - Telnet/SSH/RLogin (1:135/391)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 21 23:52:00 2021
    On 02-21-21 09:03, Alexey Vissarionov <=-
    spoke to Bj?rn Felten about "Packet Type 2 Compatible <=-

    Hint: it's not an ordinary news server. It just mimics one for the benefit of my users.

    Are there any good reasons to use NNTP instead of native FTN software?

    Yes. It allows more people to access his BBS. Ditto for BBSes that
    allow HTML access.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 23:53:55, 21 Feb 2021
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 22 09:11:00 2021
    Hello Nick!

    ** On Saturday 20.02.21 - 20:41, Nick Andre wrote to Vague:

    ..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least
    real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

    PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
    use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to August Abolins on Mon Feb 22 09:39:19 2021
    On 22 Feb 21 09:11:00, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

    ..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

    PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
    use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

    Lol, I had to Google PMFJI :P

    Doesn't matter, in practice its all about a real-sounding name as nobody can prove someone's posted-name is real. We don't check for ID...

    Even that doesn't matter to a mod that doesn't like aliases since its extremely difficult to moderate an echo especially if its peered in a mesh
    with many other systems.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ozz Nixon@1:1/123 to Ward Dossche on Mon Feb 22 20:53:49 2021
    What is needed is more developers developing exciting new stuff which can
    then
    be documented. As it is other than checking punctuqtion, there's nothing to >do.

    I agree. I was interested in developing and documenting. Not waiting to
    know if everyone agreed on grammar/punctuation ~ I have implemented the
    ability to do MOUSE interactive MATRIX and GAMES, I have implemented
    the ability to detect UTF8 or assume development codepage (437 in my
    case). But, certain people come along bitching at me for how I develop
    my software on my system - I receeded back to other networks.

    Ozz
    --- Legacy/X FTN Tosser/JAM v1-Alpha6
    * Origin: Legacy/X WHQ (Legacy ANSI at Today's Speed) (1:1/123)
  • From Sam Penwright@1:123/120 to Ozz Nixon on Tue Feb 23 06:35:38 2021
    I agree. I was interested in developing and documenting. Not waiting to know if everyone agreed on grammar/punctuation ~ I have implemented the ability to do MOUSE interactive MATRIX and GAMES, I have implemented
    the ability to detect UTF8 or assume development codepage (437 in my case). But, certain people come along bitching at me for how I develop
    my software on my system - I receeded back to other networks.
    You guys keep going, I appreciate your efforts, Let them Bitch Ozz
    keep going and Ignor the bitching! Your doing a Great Job Guys!
    Thanks Sam


    Bye for now...
    Sam
    1:123/120.0@fidonet
    Ezycom BBS Support

    --- Ezycom V3.00 01FB064B
    * Origin: Deep Space Gateway BBS Running EZYCOM V3.0 (1:123/120)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to August Abolins on Thu Feb 25 18:00:53 2021
    Re: real names
    By: August Abolins to Nick Andre on Mon Feb 22 2021 09:11 am

    Hello Nick!

    ** On Saturday 20.02.21 - 20:41, Nick Andre wrote to Vague:

    ..In Fido its often tradition to use real-names or at least real-sounding names. Not every echo requires them though.

    PMFJI.. In Fido, the intent of the phrase "real names" is to you
    use one's real name, not a real-sounding one.

    --
    ../|ug


    There's som variation though. Dan for Daniel, Ray for Raymond. Also when I was RC13, I was advised privately by a member that they were in the witness protection program so had an assumed name he was to use. I was fine with it.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Andrew Leary on Tue Dec 21 13:31:53 2021
    Hi Andrew,

    On 2021-02-14 02:21:53, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

    I have FSP-1042.001 draft 6 here. As soon as the election is over
    with, we can get back to work on it.

    The election has been over for a while now, what is the status of FSP-1042?

    Can I get it somewhere?


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)