I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
it would be a starter?
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes etc. the come with it.
But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space.
But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to looking at it / giving it a try.
The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.Politics can get personal and very petty like World Wrestling Entertainment. You can see it on the Fidonet politics echos. I think many of us are trying to restrain ourselves when we get into the politics posts when major world events happen.
Avon wrote to All <=-
For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against
any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise
when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes
etc. the come with it.
I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here
in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific
region (closer to my country) with interest too.
So for me to chat about any of that stuff I'd likely need to adjust
things in fsx to create such an echo for that kind of chatter and
focus.
But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed
in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space.
And I guess that's also understandable as many nodes in fsx are USA
based and it's been a busy/changable time in USA politics for some
years now with several high profile people generating engagement in
folks for and against their espoused views.
Another thought would be to also create a USA specific politics echo
but the it seems a bit unfair to the rest of the globe :) And I do
worry it could turn sour in content posted if people forgot about the values of the network and started chucking metaphorical barbs at each other :( Never good nor fun, nor kind.
But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in
a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to
looking at it / giving it a try.
I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided. Not always, but often so.
Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard that the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.
The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.
I mean, if the rule was strict in every other echo except the politics echo, maybe it would work? I dunno.
That ship sailed a few years ago. Seems like everyone I talked to in Europe wanted to comment on US politics. I mean, come on... I'm an American. I already don't care what other parts of the world think about anything, much less what they think about my country. :-D
But now it's not just politics. It's social. And what seemed like heated arguements before has now turned into every topic being an existential crisis.
While I would like a politics echo, there are people who will turn any objective sober analysis into something about Trump or Biden.Im objective. Id blame Biden and Putin at the same time.
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
"On second thought, lets not go to Camelot. 'tis a silly place."
TL;DR
For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.
Things are only offensive if that person allows themselves to be offended.
There are social norms in society, and we have some people in the BBS community that choose to be antisocial to get a reaction out of everyone so that they can feel powerful.
Yup, exactly this. There's very little point in engaging with these individuals, they will never agree with you or change their mind.
Andre Robitaille wrote to Blue White <=-
I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided. Not always, but often so.
This is the only point that I disagree on. Just logitally it doesn't
hold water becauwe someone has to start it.
Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard that the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.
But otherwise I couldn't agree more with all your points, and
especially your conclusion above.
DustCouncil wrote to Avon <=-
If we could measure all of the words and energy spent online advocating for one political point or another, and somehow quantify it: blood pressure points, characters or words typed, or number of time spent
doing this, and measured it against a metric of how many people changed their minds because of a better argument, it'd be interesting to see
that ratio.
I've seen people say this before, and it's not at all true. It's a mangling that you can only be hurt by someone if you allow yourself to be.
Regardless, that's not the issue here. This is a public-ish forum, and ther are other people who have to witness the disussion. There are social norms society, and we have some people in the BBS community that choose to be antisocial to get a reaction out of everyone so that they can feel powerful
TL;DR
Do you think there should be a separate politics message area or not?
DustCouncil wrote to Andre Robitaille <=-
TL;DR
Do you think there should be a separate politics message area or not?
You know when you encountered my message, how little you cared to
read it, that you took the effort to post "TL;DR"?
I care about the fact that you didn't read it, even less than
that.
I know the earth will still revolve around the sun with or without whatever happens to my "feelings".
I know the earth will still revolve around the sun with or without whatever happens to my "feelings".
*What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)
*What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus
to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus
to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.
Atreyu wrote to Avon <=-
On 05 Mar 22 14:55:00, Avon said the following to All:
It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash the messages from senders they don't want on their system. I'm running old
The majority of that hurtful/extreme discord you mention, are a couple
of non Americans trolling about American politics for no reason other
than thats their definition of fun for them.
It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash
the messages from senders they don't want on their system.
JoE DooM wrote to Avon <=-
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus
to it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.
To the point where there have been a couple of times where I've
considered dropping fsxnet. It's already caused one Australian BBS software developer to disconnect from fsxnet and even caused him to
partly lose interest in BBSs.
Political discussions negate the 'f' in fsx for me.
I know the earth will still revolve around the sun with or
without whatever happens to my "feelings".
*What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)
LOL, so I'm told! "Trust the science" the media says!
*What*? The earth revolves around the sun! How intriguing.... <8O)
That's what you learnt? I learnt that the sky was blue - go figure...
Andre Robitaille wrote to Blue White <=-
It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash
the messages from senders they don't want on their system.
Many of the people here aren't very technically competent. But that
aside, it's not that we don't think of twitlisting people. It's that we think that it's valueable to moderate a bit when people are especially vulgar or antagonistic.
Andre Robitaille wrote to Blue White <=-
It really amazes me that of all the Linux or technically-competent
people you have here, nobody thinks to use a twit-filter to trash
the messages from senders they don't want on their system.
Many of the people here aren't very technically competent. But that
aside, it's not that we don't think of twitlisting people. It's that we think that it's valueable to moderate a bit when people are especially vulgar or antagonistic.
Golly what a business eh, this politics stuff :)
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes
etc. the come with it.
I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific region
(closer to my country) with interest too.
I agree with other responses that this is a hard area to manage andI know we have people of varrying perspectives. Instead of saying blah blah blah is full of poo you need to explain why blah blah blah is full of poo with facts.
could cause "drama". That said, we are in a very scary time and I seek
an avenue to hear my friends on the other side of the world and how they
are faring, what they are experiencing, and their insights. MRC is not fulfilling this, and hearing about "Favorite Fast Food" is not either. I don't have a solution other than to "try it" - but I think it's needed.
We are a global community and best - we are not in a social giant that
can suddenly censor particular lines of thought because they don't like them. We need this discussion to help better understand each other.
I know we have people of varrying perspectives. Instead of saying blah blah blah is full of poo you need to explain why blah blah blah is full
of poo with facts.
Golly what a business eh, this politics stuff :)
I recall I asked we didn't cover that and religion because at the time
it seemed some echomail areas were getting taken over by heated
arguments between folks, often about USA politics and who was left and
who was right and which leader was good or not etc. etc.
For me I'm not against political discussion per say but I am against any hurtful or unkind or extreme discord that can unfortunately arise when something in that political or religious space comes up and people feel they must defend their point of view tooth and nail but do so in a way that descends into acrimony.
So I'm not against political chatter per say but against the poor behaviour that seems to accompany it when some go off the deep end
trying to convey their point of view.
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus to
it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussions about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes
etc. the come with it.
I enjoy news and I do follow local and national political events here in New Zealand. I am also following closely what is happing in Europe (with dismay and sadness) and keeping an eye on the South Pacific region (closer to my country) with interest too.
So for me to chat about any of that stuff I'd likely need to adjust
things in fsx to create such an echo for that kind of chatter and focus.
But it occurs to me that where the bulk of any such chatter has landed
in the past (as I mentioned earlier) was in the USA political space. And
I guess that's also understandable as many nodes in fsx are USA based
and it's been a busy/changable time in USA politics for some years now with several high profile people generating engagement in folks for and against their espoused views.
Another thought would be to also create a USA specific politics echo but the it
seems a bit unfair to the rest of the globe :) And I do worry it could turn sour in content posted if people forgot about the values of the network and started chucking metaphorical barbs at each other :( Never good nor fun, nor kind.
These are some of my thoughts :) Not in any order nor intent to act in
any time soon (given my travels)
But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in
a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to
looking at it / giving it a try.
I will x-post this to FSX_NET ... can you please reply to that echo as this is essentially a network admin etc. topic so let's plonk that
chatter there.
Best, Paul
McDoob wrote to Avon <=-
But if we could find a way to continue to agree to conduct ourselves in
a way that is civil if such an echo(s) were created I'd be open to
looking at it / giving it a try.
I will x-post this to FSX_NET ... can you please reply to that echo as this is essentially a network admin etc. topic so let's plonk that
chatter there.
Best, Paul
I have waited to give my opinion on this. I am fully aware of the
amount of negativity that can arise when talking about these
subjects, as I am somewhat active in the POLITICS echo over on
Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the
popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad
idea, Paul...
The very least problem of endorsing these conversations would be
a sharp increase in your moderator work load. A potential
worst-case scenario would be having members abandon this 'net,
the way it has happened on Fidonet.
I think you should stick to what you're doing right now, with the
Ukraine discussion: specifically allowing a certain amount of
friendly conversation, but discouraging politics and religion as
a general rule.
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things.Allow for 2-3 days for certain issues to be discussed and then after that period its swept away unless a new development happens.
But
certainly *not* a politics echo!
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Not all world events involve politics.
McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-
That's a very real possibility. And yes, equally as bad.
However, should any discussion of world events be taboo as a result?
It's a hard line to draw, one way or the other. And if we were to draw that line with too much detail, members may find themselves unable to speak for fear of crossing it. That would be worse.
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Not all world events involve politics.
While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.
That's my opinion, anyway, and I think it's a pretty accurate
description of what would happen.
However, should any discussion of world events be taboo as a result? It's a hard line to draw, one way or the other. And if we were to dra that line with too much detail, members may find themselves unable to speak for fear of crossing it. That would be worse.
Depends on the World event. Natural disasters aside, most "World events" start with a leader, or leading body, which is full of politicians, doing something noteworthy, good or bad. So it would be next to impossible to state an opinion about said event without it becoming political.
Not all world events involve politics.
While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.
For example:
1. Let's say there are catastrophic storms (tornados, hurricanes) somewhere. Certainly a world event. But, within a few posts, the topic
of "climate change" would come up, and then......
Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-
Not all world events involve politics.
While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.
For example:
1. Let's say there are catastrophic storms (tornados, hurricanes) somewhere. Certainly a world event. But, within a few posts, the topic
of "climate change" would come up, and then......
I agree (and was thinking about that). It seems like Avon is a
fairly good mod for FSXNet and could help curtail some of that -
but still it might happen too often to deal with easily.
There's an online forum I talk on, which has a "general" area and
world events come up sometimes. Politics is against the rules
there, and occasionally things start to get into politics, but
the admins usually delete such posts. Most of the time, the
people there are fairly good about not getting too political.
Deleting inappropriate messages isn't really feasible for a BBS
message network though. Other BBSes would have already
downloaded the message, and the conversation can more easily
continue on into politics.
McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these
things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Not all world events involve politics.
While that may technically be true, I think the events would quickly devolve into politics. Like within 4-5 posts/replies.
That's my opinion, anyway, and I think it's a pretty accurate
description of what would happen.
Gamgee makes a valid point (please stop doing that (o_-) ). It is
entirely too likely that this is exactly what would happen. We
humans have trouble getting along sometimes.
However, it's also not guaranteed, especially here on fsxNet,
where we have a tendency to 'self-regulate'.
At the end of the day, I agree with Gamgee, and I feel like it's
best not to make any changes. Disallow politics, but don't
necessarily crack down immediately when current events are being discussed. If the discussion starts to devolve, then put a stop
to it.
That doesn't always have to be Avon, either, and goes with your
point above about "self-regulation". Let's remember that if someone just has to talk politics, there are plenty of other places to do it, and it's nice to have somewhere that's free of it.
McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-
That doesn't always have to be Avon, either, and goes with your
point above about "self-regulation". Let's remember that if someone just has to talk politics, there are plenty of other places to do it, and it's nice to have somewhere that's free of it.
I'm not certain if you've noticed or not, but I have a habit of
helping people 'self-regulate' when they need it...(o_-)
I fully agree. I like the f-word in fsxNet! This should, as much
as possible, be a light-hearted place. There's plenty of vitriol
to go around on other 'nets. Even a McNoob would know that!
\(^_^)/
I'm not certain if you've noticed or not, but I have a habit of helping people 'self-regulate' when they need it...(o_-)
I have noticed. While that is not necessarily bad, I'd recommend that
you tread somewhat lightly with that.
McDoob wrote to Blue White <=-
Personally, I am very glad that it's not up to me to make this
decision! (^_^)
I fully agree. I like the f-word in fsxNet! This should, as much as possible,I think the goal is to be classy yet respectful if we lead to touchy topics.
be a light-hearted place. There's plenty of vitriol to go around on
On 03-19-22 11:42, McDoob wrote to Gamgee <=-
At the end of the day, I agree with Gamgee, and I feel like it's best
not to make any changes. Disallow politics, but don't necessarily crack down immediately when current events are being discussed. If the discussion starts to devolve, then put a stop to it.
I have an idea
I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net .
What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic
it gets . ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet
Politics with new zone number or I could call something else like 404
or 1202 politics . or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody
likes that idea .
I have an idea
I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What
if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets
. ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with
new zone number or I could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics
. or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .
"Solaris" <solaris@21:2/1202> wrote:
I have an idea
I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net .
What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see..
FIDO_ALLPOLIT ALL-POLITICS
FIDO_POLITICS POLITICS
SPOOKNETSNPOLITI SN_POLITICS
ILPOLITICS IL_POLITICS
WNWENPOLIT WEN-POLITICS
You've got 5 different politics areas on 4 different networks, why
don't you use one of those rather than constructing another dead
network?
I have an idea
I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets .
I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BBS dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its aIm thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct'
network out there.
I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BB dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
Maybe I might do that.
On 03-23-22 22:58, boraxman wrote to Solaris <=-
I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual
BBS dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its
a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.
On 03-24-22 21:57, boraxman wrote to Utopian Galt <=-
I would think instead of creating a net, we could just try an actual BB dedicated to politics, that way if it does turn out a bad idea, its a simple matter of closing the BBS. This doesn't leave a 'defunct' network out there.Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
Maybe I might do that.
It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too, if
it is dedicated BBS?
It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.
I'm more a "bring the network to me" person, I tend to forget to do many logins (one of several reasons why web forums are a failure for me). However, a politics network hosted by a dedicated political BBS might be
a way out. Keep it simple, use QWK networking for those of us who do decide to take a feed. I'm in two minds, if it's well done it might be interesting, especially if it discusses politics, rather than becomes a forum for pushing beliefs.
Vk3jed wrote to boraxman <=-
I'm more a "bring the network to me" person, I tend to forget to do
many logins (one of several reasons why web forums are a failure for
me). However, a politics network hosted by a dedicated political BBS might be a way out. Keep it simple, use QWK networking for those of us who do decide to take a feed. I'm in two minds, if it's well done it
might be interesting, especially if it discusses politics, rather than becomes a forum for pushing beliefs.
Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
Maybe I might do that.
It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too, if itI wanted to make like 20-30 message bases with forums of various topics. BBS would be largely center-right, but would be inclusive to drug legalization/decriminalization and lgbtq (positive and skeptics).
is dedicated BBS?
It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.
As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes dedicatedI was thinking of more specialist topics. It could be a perverse meld of PoofNet/SurvivalNet/WeedNet.
to
politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not just use one of those?
BY: boraxman(21:1/101)
Im thinking of making a 2nd bbs Called Inland Utopia 2.0
Maybe I might do that.
It would be easier to administer and keep the malcontents off too,
if it is dedicated BBS?
It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.I wanted to make like 20-30 message bases with forums of various
topics. BBS would be largely center-right, but would be inclusive to
drug legalization/decriminalization and lgbtq (positive and
skeptics).
On 03-27-22 00:06, boraxman wrote to Vk3jed <=-
At least of the discussion is on a BBS dedicated to it, the users can
be "curated" and those who just think political discussion is accusing people of being "facists" and "liberals" can be booted off. Creating a public 'net' has a moral hazard here, because you are inviting
discussion, and it becomes harder to justify kicking off the
malcontents. If it is just on your own private BBS, it is less like censorship.
On 03-26-22 09:33, Blue White wrote to Vk3jed <=-
As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes
dedicated to politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not
just use one of those?
On 03-27-22 10:24, Utopian Galt wrote to Boraxman <=-
It would be a BBS I might join myself, depending on how it goes.
I wanted to make like 20-30 message bases with forums of various
topics. BBS would be largely center-right, but would be inclusive to
drug legalization/decriminalization and lgbtq (positive and skeptics).
On 03-27-22 11:05, Utopian Galt wrote to Blue White <=-
BY: Blue White(21:4/134)
As someone earlier pointed out... FIDO has at least two echoes dedicated to
politics, and ILink and Dovenet each have one. Why not just use one of those?
I was thinking of more specialist topics. It could be a perverse meld
of PoofNet/SurvivalNet/WeedNet.
I have an idea
I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What
if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets
. ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with
new zone number or I
could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics . or just
politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .
Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.
Cozmo wrote to Solaris <=-
Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.
FTN, as in specifically FidoNet networks? Or poison to any message network in general?
Amen to that!
Amen to that!
Amen to what? It would help to quote what you're replying to so
people can follow the conversation.
Cozmo wrote to Blue White <=-
Amen to that!
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus it would be a starter?
I personally wouldn't carry any echos related to religion or politics. Not to dissuade those who would want to carry such echos, I just prefer
to stay away from such topics.
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for discussi about global politics and peoples thoughts, fears, hopes etc. the com with it.
The problem with that concept is that the people who would spend time in that echo have an identity politics problem... They can't bringing politics, and usually being nasty to each other, into ever single discussion.
I think the cons wildly outweigh the pros.
Politics can get personal and very petty like World Wrestling Entertainment. You can see it on the Fidonet politics echos. I think
many of us are trying to restrain ourselves when we get into the
politics posts when major world events happen.
I have found that people defend in that manner when the person they are defending against came on in an attacking manner, i.e. it is two-sided. Not always, but often so.
Moderating a Politics echo in another network, I would not hold out much hope for that. I am afraid it would turn out like past political dicussion in FSX_GEN here... what starts as a mostly civil discussion of something would quickly turn to name calling and f-bombing.
There are actually people I interact with in other echos that I would never suspect of such behavior that will drop into the politics echos
for the specific purpose of trolling, causing trouble, and other such behaviors that a bored person might participate in.
Unless you are willing to hold that one echo to a much lower standard
that the rest of the network, I still think the best alternative is to direct people to other networks where such behavior is less frowned upon.
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political focus it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.
i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all this crap.
If we could measure all of the words and energy spent online advocating for one political point or another, and somehow quantify it: blood pressure points, characters or words typed, or number of time spent
doing this, and measured it against a metric of how many people changed their minds because of a better argument, it'd be interesting to see
that ratio.
Not that anyone uses my board, but I'd carry (and currently carry) such echoes but don't subscribe to them. It is hard to understand the
benefit. It creates discord and even hatred between people, without
ever really being illuminating on any level. If discord and anger is
the price, what's the countervailing benefit?
I don't see one.
I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.
Personally, I have no interest in politics and every time I encounter political messages and seeing people get angry, it puts me off even logging in and reading messages.
Political discussions negate the 'f' in fsx for me.
I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.
I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling and ranting, or worse.
It's almost impossible to avoid politics and if people choose to follow
or paticipate in political discussion they can do that in an area
devoted to that and people can tune in or out as they choose.
I like the fact that FSXnet is the one stated politics-free network, for the reason I mentioned above.
I agree with other responses that this is a hard area to manage and
could cause "drama". That said, we are in a very scary time and I seek
an avenue to hear my friends on the other side of the world and how they are faring, what they are experiencing, and their insights. MRC is not fulfilling this, and hearing about "Favorite Fast Food" is not either. I
I have waited to give my opinion on this. I am fully aware of the amount of negativity that can arise when talking about these subjects, as I am somewhat active in the POLITICS echo over on Fidonet. And this is why
I've decided that I agree with the popular opinion that you've heard
from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...
The very least problem of endorsing these conversations would be a sharp increase in your moderator work load. A potential worst-case scenario would be having members abandon this 'net, the way it has happened on Fidonet.
I think you should stick to what you're doing right now, with the Ukraine discussion: specifically allowing a certain amount of friendly conversation, but discouraging politics and religion as a general rule.
Perhaps an echo for 'world events', as a place to discuss these things. But certainly *not* a politics echo!
Just my opinion, of course. (^_^)
Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the
popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...
I agree with this. Politics is a bad idea, even in it's own echo.
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Not all world events involve politics.
I would rather *NOT* see politics on fsxNet. That's one of the great things about it. If people want politics go to another message network.
Politics are poison to any FTN. It turns off too many people.
I have an idea
I have been kicking around the idea for creating a politics net . What
if I make a new net about politics and test run to see how toxic it gets
. ill host it here and we call it something like FSXnet Politics with
new zone number or I could call something else like 404 or 1202 politics
. or just politicsNet ... Im willing if anybody likes that idea .
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political f it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.
i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all thi crap.
OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you would avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from your post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me know if I misunderstand.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
Avon wrote to Gamgee <=-
Fidonet. And this is why I've decided that I agree with the
popular opinion that you've heard from many others. This is a bad idea, Paul...
I agree with this. Politics is a bad idea, even in it's own echo.
Thanks Dan, noted.
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" and "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo
for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some
stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still...
as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.
Thanks for your thoughts.
On 08 Mar 2022 at 03:57p, Al pondered and said...
I would like to see a specific echo for political topics.
I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling and
ranting, or worse.
It seems to me that's a vote for the echo but only in that it helps to contain what many consider is unwanted behaviour here in fsxNet
It's almost impossible to avoid politics and if people choose to follow
or paticipate in political discussion they can do that in an area
devoted to that and people can tune in or out as they choose.
Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, and thanks for the feedback :)
Avon wrote to Al <=-
Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage
with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, and thanks for the feedback :)
One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having
traveled outside of the US...
OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you wou avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from yo post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me k if I misunderstand.
I suppose if the politics on fsxNet is limited to only the politics
echo, then it is easy to avoid it, simply by not venturing into that
room. If the politics doesn't spread into the other area's, both those who want to discuss politics, and those who wish to avoid it, can be satisfied fairly easily.
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some
stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still...
as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.
Honestly, I think it would take about 3 messages exchanged before it
went downhill, quickly. Nearly any world event I can think of has a political slant to it of some kind (even if it actually shouldn't).
Thanks for your thoughts.
No problem, and I saw your other message to me today... I'm changing my ways, starting right now. Thanks.
I agree. Political discussions often devolve into name calling andIt seems to me that's a vote for the echo but only in that it helps to contain what many consider is unwanted behaviour here in fsxNet
ranting, or worse.
Yes, maybe not a politics are but perhaps a "What's New / World Events" area.
I hope that is not an invitation to disaster and that folks can discuss what is on their mind without name calling or ranting.
It seems likely to me that the area would need moderation. Hopefully a friendly reminder would be enough.
Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, a thanks for the feedback :)
If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.
Avon wrote to Gamgee <=-
I don't think there is any actual difference between "world events" a "politics". Such an echo would be EXACTLY the same as having an echo for politics, and is equally as bad of an idea.
Yes I'm wondering that also but I guess you can talk about some
stuff that is news without it being a political thing, still...
as you say it can turn pear shaped quickly too.
Honestly, I think it would take about 3 messages exchanged before it
went downhill, quickly. Nearly any world event I can think of has a political slant to it of some kind (even if it actually shouldn't).
Yeah I can see how that may happen also, yet, I don't want the
network to be devoid of anything happening globally as that
equally seems a somewhat futile thing to try and abstain from and
probably one of the more interesting things that could be
discussed.
So it's trying to find a way to divorce (as best as able, if at
all) political points of view from events taking place... and to
that end I also agree that's a tall order to do in a way that
participants can agree on equity in that space.
Avon wrote to Al <=-
I'm not sure I have the energy at present to develop such things
further and/or the desire to spend more time in moderation, so
the appeals of discussing the latest events in Ukraine without it
turning into a pro or anti Russia vs west ideological debate with entrenched sides lobbying the equivalent of verbal grenades at
each other, are somewhat diminished by such prospects.
It's interesting I just started to look at code of conduct text
examples for online communities. Some of the examples are pretty
thorough in what they cover off as acceptable or not. But I also
think how far does an online community manager/ZC etc. need to go
in that direction? Then again if we could rely on folks to be
'adult' about such things they would not be needed to be called
on when transgressions occurred and someone in a mod role needed
something to refer to..
The joys of it all eh? :)
Good point. Probably the only way to really know about this issue is to give it a try. Good idea to let everybody know right up front what the rules are and if it becomes too much to deal with, stop/remove the echo.
If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older
I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.
Warpslide wrote to ACMEBBS <=-
*** Quoting ACMEBBS from a message to Avon ***
One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having
traveled outside of the US...
Not sure where you are in the US, but if you can, travel North to
Canada.
If you can, try and visit Montreal and Quebec city, they feel very european
whereas downtown Vancouver is certain areas feels like a major
metropolitan asian city with a lot Canadian businesses having prominent Chinese signage out front. It was interesting to see the sign for Scotiabank (The Bank of Nova Scotia) in downtown vancounter has a very large sign in Chinese and the "normal" English sign was smaller and
under the prominent one.
Avon wrote to ACMEBBS <=-
On 14 May 2022 at 12:44a, ACMEBBS pondered and said...
Much like Joe my takeaway is you would rather avoid having to engage with the political stuff in fsxNet. Let me know if I misunderstand, a thanks for the feedback :)
If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.
Nah it's fine, I'm seeking to avoid major heated debates about this ideological view vs another or which leader is better or worse than another etc. You're question line is simply seeking to understand by asking questions, it's when it devolves into more of what I have
alluded to that's when I think we're more in trouble as an online community.
Spectre wrote to ACMEBBS <=-
If I crossed the line by asking how others outside the US are able to vote...I do apologize. One of the biggest regrets I have the older
I get is never having traveled outside of the US...but trying to read/watch things from other countries.
I do believe you're all good there. If anyone is to blame, that'd be
me, I started it. However I'm enjoying the way its progressed, its
really an overview rather than anyone getting a bee in their bonnet
over anything.
Yeah I can see how that may happen also, yet, I don't want the network
to be devoid of anything happening globally as that equally seems a somewhat futile thing to try and abstain from and probably one of the
more interesting things that could be discussed.
So it's trying to find a way to divorce (as best as able, if at all) political points of view from events taking place... and to that end I also agree that's a tall order to do in a way that participants can
agree on equity in that space.
Thank you.
On 05 Mar 2022 at 06:21p, fang-castro pondered and said...
I wonder if an echo that had a geo-political or just political f it would be a starter? If it was set up it could be a place for
yes please. have you seen DOVEnet? every base is this bullshit.
i login to BBSs and read echomail to have some time away from all thi crap.
OK so that's a yes to a politics echo? But you're also saying you would avoid it if it were created? That being the case my take away from your post is you would rather not see politics flowing in fsxNet. let me know if I misunderstand.
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