I am thinking MUSIC and VIDEO could be merged to MEDIA or ENTERTAINMENT.
Maybe we can prune the echo list to the best 20 out of the 27 we have right now.

... They say there's always one weirdo on the bus, but I couldn't find them!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)

MATT wrote (2022-09-17):

I am thinking MUSIC and VIDEO could be merged to MEDIA or ENTERTAINMENT. Maybe we can prune the echo list to the best 20 out of the 27 we have right now.

But these are different topics. An ENTERTAINMENT echo could also include GAMES with or without MUSIC. SPORTS might be ENTERTAINMENT too and the discussed topics in FSX_SPORTS is mostly about sports on TV which is VIDEO and ENTERTAINMENT. But this has nothing to with MUSIC ...

Maybe we should merge several echos to FOODGARDENINGDIYHAMRETRO?

Honestly, what is it with the obsession to merge / tidy up echo areas? Is this some kind of Fidonet trauma or OCD? ;)

⁂

---
* Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (21:3/102)

On 18 Sep 2022 at 09:13a, Oli pondered and said...

But these are different topics. An ENTERTAINMENT echo could also include GAMES with or without MUSIC. SPORTS might be ENTERTAINMENT too and the discussed topics in FSX_SPORTS is mostly about sports on TV which is
VIDEO and ENTERTAINMENT. But this has nothing to with MUSIC ...

I guess having some clear guidance about the subject nature of a given echo would help eh?

Maybe we should merge several echos to FOODGARDENINGDIYHAMRETRO?
Honestly, what is it with the obsession to merge / tidy up echo areas?
Is this some kind of Fidonet trauma or OCD? ;)

It's not an obsession. From my POV this is really the first time I have time and agency to revisit things since May 2021 and am taking a good look at if the extra echos added generated traffic and if so how much etc. to gauge success of them.

At the time I added them it was an experiment to see how much uptake etc. they would garner. I've been looking at some stats and in a number of cases the numbers are not overly high but I'll share that data by separate post.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 17 Sep 2022 at 11:30a, MATT MUNSON pondered and said...

I am thinking MUSIC and VIDEO could be merged to MEDIA or ENTERTAINMENT. Maybe we can prune the echo list to the best 20 out of the 27 we have right now.

Thanks for your thoughts Matt, have a read of my reply to Andrew for where my thinking is at, at this stage.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Merger of forums
By: Oli to MATT MUNSON on Sun Sep 18 2022 09:13:18

Maybe we should merge several echos to FOODGARDENINGDIYHAMRETRO?

meh... FSX_MELTINGPOT sounds a lot better.

But these are different topics. An ENTERTAINMENT echo could also include GAMES with or without MUSIC. SPORTS might be
ENTERTAINMENT too and the discussed topics in FSX_SPORTS is mostly about sports on TV which is VIDEO and ENTERTAINMENT. But
this has nothing to with MUSIC ...

personally i would prefer separate echos for this exact reason. some granularity is needed and to be perfectly honest..

we're not on dialup any more where bits means minutes. the transfer speed at which we send them nowadays doesn't compare to before so to be fair, it's not really a big issue, especially seeing as how little use they get right now... if they were like the heyday of usenet then yea i could see it, but righ tnow i just don't see the reason for the effort.

regards
Charles Blackburn
SYSOP - The F.B.O BBS 21:1/221
Aviation related fun @ bbs.thefbo.us IPV4 and IPV6
DOVE-Net FSX-Net USENET
Coming soon: FIDO-Net
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: The FBO BBS - bbs.thefbo.us (21:1/221)

we're not on dialup any more where bits means minutes. the transfer
speed at which we send them nowadays doesn't compare to before so to be fair, it's not really a big issue, especially seeing as how little use they get right now... if they were like the heyday of usenet then yea i could see it, but righ tnow i just don't see the reason for the effort.

regards
Charles Blackburn
SYSOP - The F.B.O BBS 21:1/221
Aviation related fun @ bbs.thefbo.us IPV4 and IPV6
DOVE-Net FSX-Net USENET
Coming soon: FIDO-Net
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: The FBO BBS - bbs.thefbo.us (21:1/221)

In reading this thread, I keep coming back to what is the reason for consolidating the forums? Is it due to "clutter" or space or ?? There's not the abundance of forums like FidoNet that appear to be dead. Paul, your the ZC and can due what you want. But if we knew your thought process, we could could "jump on the band wagon" or not. Me, I'll follow your lead as to what ever you decide. A few slow forums don't bother me, yet!

ogg

Sysop, Altair IV BBS
Lufkin, TX
fsxnet: 21:2/147

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)

On 18 Sep 2022 at 02:27p, ogg pondered and said...

In reading this thread, I keep coming back to what is the reason for consolidating the forums? Is it due to "clutter" or space or ?? There's not the abundance of forums like FidoNet that appear to be dead. Paul, your the ZC and can due what you want. But if we knew your thought process, we could could "jump on the band wagon" or not. Me, I'll

Have a look at my reply to Apam :)

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

I am thinking MUSIC and VIDEO could be merged to MEDIA or ENTERTAINMENT. Maybe we can prune the echo list to the best 20 out of the 27 we have right now.

... They say there's always one weirdo on the bus, but I couldn't find them!

Concur with this, a joint "entertainment" echo.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 09-18-22 09:13, Oli wrote to MATT MUNSON <=-

But these are different topics. An ENTERTAINMENT echo could also
include GAMES with or without MUSIC. SPORTS might be ENTERTAINMENT too
and the discussed topics in FSX_SPORTS is mostly about sports on TV
which is VIDEO and ENTERTAINMENT. But this has nothing to with MUSIC
...

Some of us are more interested in _doing_ sport, which has nothing to do with enterainment.


... I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On 09-18-22 14:27, ogg wrote to Charles Blackburn <=-

In reading this thread, I keep coming back to what is the reason for consolidating the forums? Is it due to "clutter" or space or ??
There's not the abundance of forums like FidoNet that appear to be
dead. Paul, your the ZC and can due what you want. But if we knew your thought process, we could could "jump on the band wagon" or not. Me,
I'll follow your lead as to what ever you decide. A few slow forums
don't bother me, yet!

For me, a few slow echops is _much_ less of a pain than having to reconfigure, which puts demands on my executive function - so echo changes (additions/deletions/mergers) for me are best done _sparingly_.


... NEW! John Bobbitt doll. Some disassembly required.
=== MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (21:1/109)

On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 11:30:03 -0700
"MATT MUNSON" <matt.munson@21:4/108> wrote:

I am thinking MUSIC and VIDEO could be merged to MEDIA or
ENTERTAINMENT. Maybe we can prune the echo list to the best 20 out of
the 27 we have right now.

... They say there's always one weirdo on the bus, but I couldn't
find them!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (21:4/108)

One thing I would like to see is a sysops area, specially for things
like hosekeeping, new and removed groups and the like. I don't have
time to check often and when I do, there's like 500 new posts. It's
hard to go through and determine which is important sysops stuff and
what's just chaff.

Pretty much every network has a sysop area for important notifications.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

One thing I would like to see is a sysops area, specially for things
like hosekeeping, new and removed groups and the like. I don't have
time to check often and when I do, there's like 500 new posts. It's
hard to go through and determine which is important sysops stuff and
what's just chaff.

Isn't that what fsx_net is supposed to be?

Andrew

--- Talisman v0.43-dev (Windows/x64)
* Origin: Smuggler's Cove - Private BBS (21:1/182)

Re: Re: Merger of forums
By: apam to Nigel Reed on Fri Sep 30 2022 09:27:17

Isn't that what fsx_net is supposed to be?

I would say no considering the amount of junk that's in there like stats.
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

On 29 Sep 2022 at 11:47a, Nigel Reed pondered and said...

One thing I would like to see is a sysops area, specially for things
like hosekeeping, new and removed groups and the like. I don't have
time to check often and when I do, there's like 500 new posts. It's
hard to go through and determine which is important sysops stuff and what's just chaff.

When you consider probably 95%+ of folks posting/active are 'only sysops' it seems a bit of a farce to have a sysops only echo. But in terms of the housekeeping info and stuff important to sysops I'd say this echo is the place to keep and eye on

"Discussions about fsxNet. Chat about current network operations, plans for the future and how to best implement them."

I do tend to post housekeeping to fsx_gen but could cross-post here also.

To be honest I wonder if we should have this echo as a mandatory sub so that admin messages always get through to bbs sysops instead of relying on posting to general echo... which was (historically) the all things to all people echo... and at one stage the only echo.

More to ponder.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 30 Sep 2022 at 09:27a, apam pondered and said...

One thing I would like to see is a sysops area, specially for things like hosekeeping, new and removed groups and the like. I don't have time to check often and when I do, there's like 500 new posts. It's hard to go through and determine which is important sysops stuff and what's just chaff.

Isn't that what fsx_net is supposed to be?

Yeps

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 30 Sep 2022 at 02:39a, Nigel Reed pondered and said...

Isn't that what fsx_net is supposed to be?

I would say no considering the amount of junk that's in there like stats. --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux

Please explain... do you mean stats I posted recently when discussing should echos be retained or not?

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Isn't that what fsx_net is supposed to be?

I would say no considering the amount of junk that's in there like stats.

FSX_NET is a fairly low traffic area. I have around about 500 messages in here for the last year. The only time you'll see stats in here is when Avon is looking for input from the users of the net.

There is no sysop only area in fsxNet. I think that users and their input is just as important as sysops and that is why the area is open to all.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Re: Re: Merger of forums
By: Avon to Nigel Reed on Fri Sep 30 2022 20:47:25

Please explain... do you mean stats I posted recently when discussing should echos be retained or not?

TBH, I thought they were something posted on a regular basis or something. Merging or not of groups really doesn't interest me any. I just add them when they're added and remove them when they're not.

The thing is, it needs to be clearly visible when I need to make a change on my system. I cannot check in daily, sometimes not weekly either, so it's easy to miss something. If the _NET group is supposed to be what other nets would call a SYSOP only group, fair enough then I'll pay more attention to it.
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

Re: Re: Merger of forums
By: Al to Nigel Reed on Fri Sep 30 2022 00:50:40

There is no sysop only area in fsxNet. I think that users and their input is just as important as sysops and that is why the area is open to all.

Users don't maintain the BBS and or have to add/remove areas. Maybe I should delete sysops functions to my users :)
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

There is no sysop only area in fsxNet. I think that users and their input is >> just as important as sysops and that is why the area is open to all.

Users don't maintain the BBS and or have to add/remove areas.

No, sysops do but users are free to read and comment.

Maybe I should delete sysops functions to my users :)

That might be a good idea. :)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (21:4/106)

Am 30.09.22 schrieb Nigel Reed@21:2/101 in FSX_NET:

Hallo Nigel,

If the _NET group is supposed to be what other nets would call a
SYSOP only group, fair enough then I'll pay more attention to it.

It is, but it is not a "announcement-only" echo that some "big boss of
the network" fills with commands to the servants (sysops).

It is also for discussing changes like the possible changes in the
echo structure and other things that are relevant for most sysops.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

Regards,
Anna

--- OpenXP 5.0.56
* Origin: Imzadi Box Point (21:3/127.1)

Nigel Reed wrote to apam <=-

Re: Re: Merger of forums
By: apam to Nigel Reed on Fri Sep 30 2022 09:27:17

Isn't that what fsx_net is supposed to be?

I would say no considering the amount of junk that's in there like
stats.

I think those posts are in a different echo now, like FSX_STATS or
some-such.


... A distant ship, smoke on the horizon....
--- MultiMail/DOS
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (21:4/134)

On 30 Sep 2022 at 02:52a, Nigel Reed pondered and said...

Re: Re: Merger of forums
By: Avon to Nigel Reed on Fri Sep 30 2022 20:47:25

Please explain... do you mean stats I posted recently when discussing s echos be retained or not?

TBH, I thought they were something posted on a regular basis or

Yep all good, no I don't post such stats in this echo that often, just when discussing pros and cons of retention / removal.

something. Merging or not of groups really doesn't interest me any. I
just add them when they're added and remove them when they're not.

The thing is how to know when to do either? Addition is probably easy if the BBS is on auto-create but removal is another story I guess.

The thing is, it needs to be clearly visible when I need to make a
change on my system. I cannot check in daily, sometimes not weekly
either, so it's easy to miss something. If the _NET group is supposed to be what other nets would call a SYSOP only group, fair enough then I'll pay more attention to it. --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux

It was never set up as sysop only but certainly intended to be a place to discuss network happenings and proposed changes, seek feedback, debate the pros and cons etc. A touch stone for me at least to gather feedback and for folks to put forward ideas, talk about network operations. I'd certainly advise any major changes here and probably also post it to FSX_GEN as well.

The more I ponder things the more I think this should be an echo that all nodes are subbed to ensure sysops are at least getting packets about such topics.

The thing is, it needs to be clearly visible when I need to make a
change on my system. I cannot check in daily, sometimes not weekly

I should be using the fsxnet.nz website more often also to post such things up. At present I have been remiss in that and instead just posted changes to history.txt as we've rolled along. I'll aim to improve that going forward. So hopefully that will be another place you can check on from time to time and know if there's something worth noting it will be in the 'news' page or similar.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 30 Sep 2022 at 10:37a, acn pondered and said...

It is, but it is not a "announcement-only" echo that some "big boss of the network" fills with commands to the servants (sysops).
It is also for discussing changes like the possible changes in the
echo structure and other things that are relevant for most sysops.
At least, that's my understanding of it.

Yeps, the notes I plonked into fsxnet.txt for this echo show:

Discussions about fsxNet. Chat about current network operations, plans for the future and how to best implement them.

I think you're on the money there.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 30 Sep 2022 at 03:57p, Blue White pondered and said...

I think those posts are in a different echo now, like FSX_STATS or some-such.

Yep FSX_STA have echomail stats split off into that echo these days, they were all in the bot echo (file reports too) so some time back (26 Oct 2020) we created the STA and FIL echos for those things respectively. It means sysops can opt in/out of such traffic if they want.

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/24 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

Re: Re: Merger of forums
By: Avon to Nigel Reed on Sun Oct 02 2022 20:00:14

I should be using the fsxnet.nz website more often also to post such things

I'm never likely to visit that website. Beyond getting information to subscribe to a network. If I hardly have time to reach echomail, I'm sure not going to going out to websites.

I may be the exception, I don't know. While I have some interest, a lot of the networks and echoes I subscribe to are for my userbase, what little there is, and not for my personal consumption, though I do participate from time to time. I have a busy life outside of the BBS world, and I need things as easy as possible for me to pick up important information without having to scroll through pages of dross to try and find something that may or may not be there.
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)