• Politics

    From Scuz@21:1/248 to All on Mon Jan 27 07:48:52 2025
    Can we have a FSX_Politics base? This is getting annyoing to see everyone bitching - complaining about it. I personally do not care about politics at all. If I wanted to see this shit I can get on FB or other social media platforms or watch the news. It's getting old.

    -Scuz


    ▄■ ■▄
    · ▄ ▄░▒▓▌ Scuz ▐▓▒░▄ ▄ ·
    ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀

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  • From Warpslide@21:3/110 to All on Mon Jan 27 08:08:20 2025
    On 27 Jan 2025, Scuz said the following...

    Can we have a FSX_Politics base? This is getting annyoing to see
    everyone bitching - complaining about it.

    If I wanted to see this shit I can get on FB or other social media platforms or watch the news. It's getting old.

    I prefer the current rule of "no politics or religion on fsxNet". Like Scuz said, there are other places to go if you want (talk|argue|spew) those topics.

    If FSX_Politics did exist, I certainly wouldn't look at it.


    Jay

    ... If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all

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  • From Scuz@21:1/248 to Warpslide on Mon Jan 27 09:17:50 2025
    If FSX_Politics did exist, I certainly wouldn't look at it.


    Neither would I, honestly wouldn't sub to that base.

    -Scuz


    ▄■ ■▄
    · ▄ ▄░▒▓▌ Scuz ▐▓▒░▄ ▄ ·
    ▀ ▀ ▀ ▀

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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to SCUZ on Mon Jan 27 09:56:00 2025
    Can we have a FSX_Politics base? This is getting annyoing to see everyone bitching - complaining about it. I personally do not care about politics at all. If I wanted to see this shit I can get on FB or other social media platforms or watch the news. It's getting old.

    I posted one of my responses over on Dovenet Debate as I know at least a
    couple of the thread's participants also post there.

    FIDO Politics, and several other FIDO political echoes, are also available to those who would like to discuss politics.

    That all said, I have found there are participants here who seem ok with discussing politics until someone questions their stance, then they cry
    "but politics!" like they are not the ones who made the discussion
    political to being with. Keep your eyes peeled and you might notice that
    as well.


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  • From Scuz@21:1/248 to Dumas Walker on Mon Jan 27 11:22:03 2025
    That all said, I have found there are participants here who seem ok with discussing politics until someone questions their stance, then they cry "but politics!" like they are not the ones who made the discussion political to being with. Keep your eyes peeled and you might notice that as well.

    Understandable, but it is tiresome. It's everywhere. Radio, TV, Social Media. It just gets old hearing about it 24/7. I respect everyones opionion when it comes to politics no matter which side they are on and that's what is great about the US, we can have open opinions.
    That'll be my last post about it :)
    -Scuz

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Scuz on Tue Jan 28 10:54:38 2025
    On 27 Jan 2025 at 07:48a, Scuz pondered and said...

    Can we have a FSX_Politics base? This is getting annyoing to see
    everyone bitching - complaining about it. I personally do not care about politics at all. If I wanted to see this shit I can get on FB or other social media platforms or watch the news. It's getting old.

    Hi there

    You'll see I have posted a request (I seem to have to do this from time to time) requesting folks take that subject to an othernet.

    I have toyed with the idea of a fsxNet politics echo in the past but discarded the idea. I figure if the network is meant to be 'fun' where's the fun in an echo where the discussion unravels into people throwing verbal rocks at each other ;)

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Warpslide on Tue Jan 28 10:56:49 2025
    On 27 Jan 2025 at 08:08a, Warpslide pondered and said...

    I prefer the current rule of "no politics or religion on fsxNet". Like Scuz said, there are other places to go if you want (talk|argue|spew) those topics.

    agree


    If FSX_Politics did exist, I certainly wouldn't look at it.

    it won't

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Dumas Walker on Tue Jan 28 10:58:37 2025
    On 27 Jan 2025 at 09:56a, Dumas Walker pondered and said...

    I posted one of my responses over on Dovenet Debate as I know at least a couple of the thread's participants also post there.

    FIDO Politics, and several other FIDO political echoes, are also
    available to those who would like to discuss politics.

    thank you

    That all said, I have found there are participants here who seem ok with discussing politics until someone questions their stance, then they cry "but politics!" like they are not the ones who made the discussion political to being with. Keep your eyes peeled and you might notice that as well.

    I agree things can be viewed by everyone differently / subjectively but if the subject matter is into which leader of a country did or didn't do xyz, what one country may/may not do to another etc. etc. I think it's fairly clear to all it's a political thread emerging.

    Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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  • From Scuz@21:1/248 to Avon on Mon Jan 27 18:46:10 2025
    You'll see I have posted a request (I seem to have to do this from time
    to time) requesting folks take that subject to an othernet.


    Thanks Avon!

    -Scuz

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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to SCUZ on Tue Jan 28 12:19:00 2025
    Understandable, but it is tiresome. It's everywhere. Radio, TV, Social Media. It just gets old hearing about it 24/7. I respect everyones opionion when it comes to politics no matter which side they are on and that's what is great about the US, we can have open opinions.

    Changing the subject slightly to social media, I agree. There is too much
    of it there and a lot of what is there is misinformation. The people who
    are constantly freaked out about what (politician name here) is up to are
    the ones that spend way too much time on Meta or X.


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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to AVON on Tue Jan 28 12:19:00 2025
    That all said, I have found there are participants here who seem ok with discussing politics until someone questions their stance, then they cry "but politics!" like they are not the ones who made the discussion political to being with. Keep your eyes peeled and you might notice
    hat
    as well.

    I agree things can be viewed by everyone differently / subjectively but if
    h
    subject matter is into which leader of a country did or didn't do xyz, what
    n
    country may/may not do to another etc. etc. I think it's fairly clear to all it's a political thread emerging.

    Agreed, which is why it is funny when the person who starts the discussion suddenly starts crying foul. If you don't want to discuss it, don't bring
    it up. ;)


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  • From Digital Man to Warpslide on Tue Jan 28 11:28:02 2025
    Re: Re: Politics
    By: Warpslide to All on Mon Jan 27 2025 08:08 am

    If FSX_Politics did exist, I certainly wouldn't look at it.

    That's why I created the DOVE-Net Debate and Religion conferences so many years ago: to have a place to send discussions I didn't want to see or take part in. :-)
    --
    digital man (rob)

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #114:
    Weedpuller "Geographic" http://youtu.be/cpzBDVgmWSA
    Norco, CA WX: 51.9°F, 75.0% humidity, 4 mph W wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Dumas Walker on Wed Jan 29 06:31:45 2025
    Dumas Walker wrote to SCUZ <=-

    Changing the subject slightly to social media, I agree. There is too
    much of it there and a lot of what is there is misinformation. The
    people who are constantly freaked out about what (politician name here)
    is up to are the ones that spend way too much time on Meta or X.

    I'm getting frustrated with the whataboutism. Defend your position, see
    if you can convince the other side.



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Dumas Walker on Wed Jan 29 06:31:45 2025
    Dumas Walker wrote to AVON <=-

    Agreed, which is why it is funny when the person who starts the
    discussion suddenly starts crying foul. If you don't want to discuss
    it, don't bring it up. ;)

    I've been guilty of that in the past, most recently I got sucked into a
    debate that took a political turn on this politics-free network.

    Fido's POLITICS echo is fine for me. I'll continue the discussions
    there.



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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Thu Jan 30 10:04:00 2025
    Changing the subject slightly to social media, I agree. There is too much of it there and a lot of what is there is misinformation. The people who are constantly freaked out about what (politician name here) is up to are the ones that spend way too much time on Meta or X.

    I'm getting frustrated with the whataboutism. Defend your position, see
    if you can convince the other side.

    It is difficult to defend your position if it is based on misinformation or emotion. Usually people I disagree with, who don't stoop to cursing or
    citing long debunked information, who are able to explain their position I
    will listen to. I might not be convinced that time, but I will keep
    listening to them because they might have other valid points.


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  • From Geri Atricks@21:3/235 to All on Thu Apr 2 11:41:59 2026
    OK, I am SOOO Done!!!

    FB is totally BORKED!!
    Sending me notifications for posts I've seen more than 24 hours prior, Not showing me time critical posts until the events have already passed.

    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell the bots from real people.

    For these reasons primarily, I am leaving Social Media and retreating back to the good ole pre-internet BBS. The last bot free service on the planet other
    than face to face meetups.

    -FltCapt Dallas Vinson, SFI

    ... How do I set my laser printer to stun?

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  • From Mortar M.@21:2/101 to Geri Atricks on Thu Apr 2 14:18:23 2026
    Re: Social Media
    By: Geri Atricks to All on Thu Apr 02 2026 11:41:59

    The last bot free service on the planet other than face to face meetups.

    Even that may change within a few years. Several companies are pushing to produce humanoid robots that interact naturally with people, like in the movie, I Robot.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
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  • From slacker@21:3/193 to Geri Atricks on Thu Apr 2 19:04:05 2026
    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED
    just about every form of
    communications to the point it is
    now virtually impossible to tell
    the bots from real people.

    Agreed. It's getting really bad. The only social media type thing I'm on these days is Reddit and some subs are just flooded with bot posts. (Looking at you /r/AITA and the like)


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  • From Jegor@21:3/228 to Geri Atricks on Thu Apr 2 22:25:54 2026
    Hello Geri!

    02 Apr 26 11:41, you wrote to All:

    FB is totally BORKED!!
    Sending me notifications for posts I've seen more than 24 hours prior,
    Not showing me time critical posts until the events have already
    passed.

    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of
    communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell the bots from real people.

    So true. Feels like FB is made by algorithms for algorithms, not for humans.

    Jegor

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: (21:3/228)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Geri Atricks on Fri Apr 3 08:35:45 2026
    Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-

    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of
    communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell the bots from real people.

    I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots now?



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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to slacker on Fri Apr 3 08:35:45 2026
    slacker wrote to Geri Atricks <=-

    Agreed. It's getting really bad. The only social media type thing I'm
    on these days is Reddit and some subs are just flooded with bot posts. (Looking at you /r/AITA and the like)

    Yeah, twitter and Reddit are both champions of The Story That Never
    Happened.



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  • From Dumas Walker@21:1/175 to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Fri Apr 3 13:17:10 2026
    Agreed. It's getting really bad. The only social media type thing I'm
    on these days is Reddit and some subs are just flooded with bot posts. (Looking at you /r/AITA and the like)

    Yeah, twitter and Reddit are both champions of The Story That Never
    Happened.

    I think that can be said of pretty much any social media platform...
    threads, bluesky, etc... where the posters are more anonymous vs. Facebook where you are usually posting things that people who actually know you can
    see.


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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 6 01:10:08 2026
    On 03 Apr 2026 at 08:35a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-

    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell th bots from real people.

    I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots now?



    I think a lot of it is.

    There is a lot of bots on X, and a lot of scammy accounts, particularly from India. But slop has been around a while. I noticed, even many years ago, you would search for a topic for which there should be many old pages, but Google would return new pages, brief "introductory' pages on old topics, like old Unix utilities and the like.

    Were people just writing "How to use AWK" over and over?

    I've also noticed it for many years in my profession, where I'd look up a topic, and often it would be an Indian site that comes up, where someone has written tons of pages, just briefly discussing a topic like Equipment Validation, a very brief page, no substance. All this crap was just designed to game the search algorithm.

    ... Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.

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  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Geri Atricks on Sun Apr 5 07:06:56 2026
    Re: Social Media
    By: Geri Atricks to All on Thu Apr 02 2026 11:41 am


    For these reasons primarily, I am leaving Social Media and retreating back to the good ole pre-internet BBS. The last bot free service on the planet other
    than face to face meetups.

    Congratulations, and welcome to the club.

    Don't despair, many private communities exists which remain somehow sane.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
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    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Khronos@21:2/153 to boraxman on Tue Apr 7 08:16:35 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    On 03 Apr 2026 at 08:35a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-

    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to tell th bots from real people.

    I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots now?



    I think a lot of it is.

    There is a lot of bots on X, and a lot of scammy accounts, particularly from India. But slop has been around a while. I noticed, even many
    years ago, you would search for a topic for which there should be many
    old pages, but Google would return new pages, brief "introductory'
    pages on old topics, like old Unix utilities and the like.

    In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give
    it time and it might be.
    Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run
    than bbs's though.


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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Khronos on Wed Apr 8 00:38:05 2026
    On 07 Apr 2026 at 08:16a, Khronos pondered and said...

    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    On 03 Apr 2026 at 08:35a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

    Geri Atricks wrote to All <=-

    AI bots and ScamBots have INFESTED just about every form of communications to the point it is now virtually impossible to te bots from real people.

    I wonder how much of the total internet traffic is AI slop and bots



    I think a lot of it is.

    There is a lot of bots on X, and a lot of scammy accounts, particular from India. But slop has been around a while. I noticed, even many years ago, you would search for a topic for which there should be man old pages, but Google would return new pages, brief "introductory' pages on old topics, like old Unix utilities and the like.

    In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give it time and it might be.
    Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run than bbs's though.


    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    ... Evil triumphs when good people do nothing. - Einstein

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  • From Geri Atricks@21:3/235 to boraxman on Tue Apr 7 09:02:10 2026
    In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but g it time and it might be.
    Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to r than bbs's though.


    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Please pardon my ignorance, but other than the prehistoric ancester of the elephant, I've never heard of this Mastodon. Please enlighten me.

    -FltCapt Dallas Vinson, SFI

    ... They say there's always one weirdo on the bus, but I couldn't find them!

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    * Origin: Legends of Yesteryear (21:3/235)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Khronos on Tue Apr 7 07:38:34 2026
    Khronos wrote to boraxman <=-

    In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but
    give it time and it might be.

    As long as the feed remains chronological and I can block/mute accounts
    I don't want to hear from, I think Mastodon has a fighting chance. I've
    already seen some servers get blacklisted, I think fracturing is more
    of an issue than signal-to-noise ratio.

    Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run than bbs's though.

    ActivityPub is an open protocol, and I've seen "servers" that are meant
    more for a single user - sort of like a FTN point. Those don't take the
    same horsepower as running a full node.

    I can attest. I'm on a Telegram group with some old conspiracy-nut
    BBSers (the group is called "foil hat") and 2 of them narrated setting
    up Mastodon instances. Apparently the data cache is a bugger - caching
    *all* of the images and videos being shared.




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  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Tue Apr 7 07:38:34 2026
    boraxman wrote to Khronos <=-

    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary
    of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    No central control, more of an anarcho-centric coalition. Each node has
    their own policies and themes, and if they choose, they can block
    specific nodes (and their users) based on whatever.

    If you don't agree with the editorial bent of the node you're on, you
    can pick another node - or start your own. And, you can easily
    redirect your follow list and users to your current location. For
    example, I started off on mastodon.social, the main server. After
    playing with tildes, I found tilde.zone and wanted to use that as my
    URL and my main instance. With a few settings, I was able to copy over
    who I followed, and make mastodon.social point people to my new
    location.



    ... Change ambiguities to specifics
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  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Khronos on Tue Apr 7 09:26:40 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Khronos to boraxman on Tue Apr 07 2026 08:16 am

    In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give it time and it might be.

    The fediverse really hasn't, I think mostly due to it being noncommercial in nature and decentralized. There's absolutely AI slop instances, and AI slop friendly corners, but they're generally not accepted on the whole.

    Mastodon servers from what I know require a lot more horse power to run than bbs's though.

    Certainly do - I doubt most BBSes have 5-10K systems to connect to when people post a thing. ;-)
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
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  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Tue Apr 7 09:30:14 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to Khronos on Wed Apr 08 2026 12:38 am

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    The fediverse has no central control, no. Mastodon is just one instance flavour, like Thunderbird is to E-Mail.

    Lots of stuff ties together, microblogging sites, video and audio streaming sites, reddit-alikes, web forum-alikes, facebook-alikes, etc.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to Geri Atricks on Tue Apr 7 09:32:05 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Geri Atricks to boraxman on Tue Apr 07 2026 09:02 am

    Please pardon my ignorance, but other than the prehistoric ancester of the elephant, I've never heard of this Mastodon. Please enlighten me.

    Let me just throw you a link:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
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  • From Khronos@21:2/153 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Apr 7 15:51:54 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Khronos on Tue Apr 07 2026 07:38:34

    Khronos wrote to boraxman <=-

    In my experience Mastodon hasn't been taken over like this yet, but give it time and it might be.

    As long as the feed remains chronological and I can block/mute accounts
    I don't want to hear from, I think Mastodon has a fighting chance. I've
    already seen some servers get blacklisted, I think fracturing is more
    of an issue than signal-to-noise ratio.

    You can control what you see and the order of the postings newest to oldest or oldest to newest whatever you prefer.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: telnet://cwshack.ddns.net:2330 (21:2/153)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to boraxman on Tue Apr 7 16:00:00 2026
    On 08 Apr 2026, boraxman said the following...

    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.

    the problem is you don't really get to choose..

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to fusion on Wed Apr 8 09:43:59 2026
    i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
    someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
    most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.

    the problem is you don't really get to choose..

    It being Fediverse and (probably) open source, there _has_ to be ways around that, especially since the servers still exist.

    Obviously, it's not reasonable to force other people to do free labor for us, but if the set doesn't work for you, then clearly it's an app that exists, but is not useful for you in particular.

    And I can definitely understand the annoyance of it, as the amount of super-useful apps remains limited.

    Also, I mean to _eventually_ get back to Lemmy, but while I ran my own server for a while, figuring out how to do so without continuously running out of hard drive space (or paying huge hosting bills) was a challenge.

    But I really like the idea of a social network where I control my own little part of it.

    I suppose it's not terribly different from my BBS, as I had about the same amount of other users.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Geri Atricks on Thu Apr 9 01:35:03 2026

    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Please pardon my ignorance, but other than the prehistoric ancester of
    the elephant, I've never heard of this Mastodon. Please enlighten me.


    It is from memory, like a microblogging/social network system, but federated. You can join a particular instance and send their version of tweets.

    The idea of federation seems good, but in practice, I prefer something like X, because I can easily go direct to the accounts I want to follow.

    ... Honk if you love peace and quiet!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 9 01:40:02 2026

    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm war of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    No central control, more of an anarcho-centric coalition. Each node has
    their own policies and themes, and if they choose, they can block
    specific nodes (and their users) based on whatever.

    If you don't agree with the editorial bent of the node you're on, you
    can pick another node - or start your own. And, you can easily
    redirect your follow list and users to your current location. For
    example, I started off on mastodon.social, the main server. After
    playing with tildes, I found tilde.zone and wanted to use that as my
    URL and my main instance. With a few settings, I was able to copy over
    who I followed, and make mastodon.social point people to my new
    location.



    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard. The thing with Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict with you, but thats just another echo chamber.

    I think for public discourse, it is important that people are exposed to contrary ideas.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to fusion on Thu Apr 9 01:43:58 2026
    On 07 Apr 2026 at 04:00p, fusion pondered and said...

    On 08 Apr 2026, boraxman said the following...

    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm war platforms where there is undue censorship.

    i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
    someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
    most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.

    the problem is you don't really get to choose..


    I can pretty much already tell the politics of a group or movement or scene, where they ban servers. That alone is a big turn off from the technology.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to boraxman on Wed Apr 8 15:30:08 2026
    speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard. The thing with

    I had thought ex-Twitter _was_ an echo chamber, at this point.

    I wonder about the free speech claim, too, since evidently one cannot say, "cis", so far as I understand. Which really cuts down on discussion of cis fatty acids. And Musk amplifies his own voice over others.

    But I'll do my best to leave the topic alone, as it'll get into politics a little too quickly, I imagine. As likely does _anything_ Musk.

    can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict
    with you, but thats just another echo chamber.

    Possible that everything is an echo chamber, to _some_ extent. Since the people into various places are into those places for a reason.

    E.g., we're all on BBSs, and that's going to limit which sort of people are here.

    And FSXnet has a few rules that differentiate it from other networks, thus also selecting people (or things discussed), to whatever extent.

    But chatting on FSXnet is significantly more pleasant to me than elsewhere, and whether or not people consider it an echo chamber, I'd vastly prefer it over places where "engagement" means rage bait and controversy.

    Here, it feels like we have at least a little more, "consider the people behind the screen", and thus it feels a bit more human than I seem to be able to get over much of the rest of the internet.

    (Probably doesn't hurt that people/bots using LLMs haven't spent a whole lot of time writing messages here, too.)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Wed Apr 8 08:52:50 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 09 2026 01:40 am

    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.

    No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that. It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.

    Look what gets amplified there... I'm sorry, but by just about most any reasonable standards, X is not a good place.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Wed Apr 8 08:55:24 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to fusion on Thu Apr 09 2026 01:43 am

    the problem is you don't really get to choose..
    I can pretty much already tell the politics of a group or movement or scene, where they ban servers. That alone is a big turn off from the technology.

    Like a BBS, you can set up your own and federate with whoever you wish, or whoever will tolerate you.

    I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as being a good thing.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Adept on Fri Apr 10 00:45:42 2026

    I wonder about the free speech claim, too, since evidently one cannot
    say, "cis", so far as I understand. Which really cuts down on discussion of cis fatty acids. And Musk amplifies his own voice over others.

    But I'll do my best to leave the topic alone, as it'll get into politics
    a little too quickly, I imagine. As likely does _anything_ Musk.


    Quite a lot gets said on X these days, there seems to be no issue there.

    Possible that everything is an echo chamber, to _some_ extent. Since the people into various places are into those places for a reason.

    E.g., we're all on BBSs, and that's going to limit which sort of people are here.

    And FSXnet has a few rules that differentiate it from other networks,
    thus also selecting people (or things discussed), to whatever extent.

    But chatting on FSXnet is significantly more pleasant to me than elsewhere, and whether or not people consider it an echo chamber, I'd vastly prefer it over places where "engagement" means rage bait and controversy.

    Here, it feels like we have at least a little more, "consider the people behind the screen", and thus it feels a bit more human than I seem to be able to get over much of the rest of the internet.

    (Probably doesn't hurt that people/bots using LLMs haven't spent a whole lot of time writing messages here, too.)


    There will always be a selectiveness to the audience, but an echo chamber is where everyone has the same views, and echos them back.

    Here, we're all BBS enthusiasts, so perhaps discussion of whether BBS's are still fun will see as all agree, but in other respects, I have no idea what your politics or religion are, and you could easily be someone who disagrees with me. I can't escape that here.

    On other places though, they exclude those who don't agree, and that I dont like.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 10 00:48:35 2026
    On 08 Apr 2026 at 08:52a, The Wanderer pondered and said...

    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 09 2026 01:40 am

    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.

    No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that.
    It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.

    Look what gets amplified there... I'm sorry, but by just about most any reasonable standards, X is not a good place.

    What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?

    Genuinely asking. I've heard people complain and leave because of what IS said, but I haven't heard of people leaving because they've had a particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned accounts (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)

    I'm not sure whether the issue some people have is because they are reading things they don't like, or because they are unable to put forward their particular views.

    ... A Meteor is an example of a rock star.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 10 00:58:26 2026
    the problem is you don't really get to choose..
    I can pretty much already tell the politics of a group or movement or scene, where they ban servers. That alone is a big turn off from the technology.

    Like a BBS, you can set up your own and federate with whoever you wish,
    or whoever will tolerate you.

    I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as
    being a good thing.


    The purpose of Free Speech is not for the benefit of the speaker, but for the listener. Free Speech is important because a healthy society needs its view challenged. People need their views challenged. What is given as truth, much be challenged.

    By being exposed to other views, you have your own views challenged, and what you perceive to be right is tested. Now, you may find out you are wrong. But even if you are right, and the view you are exposed to is wrong, you now know better why you are right. You now know WHY they are wrong.

    So it is bad for society to "protect" people from this, because even if you are protecting the truth, a truth that they don't see challenged becomes weak. And if you chose to simply not listen to opposing views, you are harming yourself.

    I had a work colleage tell me he went on X a bit, saw views he didn't like and leave. To me, someone like that has no business weighing in on anything. They forfeit their right to have their opinion on topics taken seriously.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Thu Apr 9 16:28:12 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to The Wanderer on Fri Apr 10 2026 12:48 am

    What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?

    I would suggest that getting banned isn't the only measure of censorship. If thier algorithm has been tweaked to only amplify certain takes, then what would you call the takes that fall outside of that?

    particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned accounts (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)

    I don't recall them shutting down Grok.

    I'm not sure whether the issue some people have is because they are reading things they don't like, or because they are unable to put forward their particular views.

    Both, I believe. When one eventually realizes they're sitting at the nazi bar, that drives many away.

    However, I appreciate your discussion on it!
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Sat Apr 11 00:40:41 2026
    What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?

    I would suggest that getting banned isn't the only measure of
    censorship. If thier algorithm has been tweaked to only amplify certain takes, then what would you call the takes that fall outside of that?


    One has to be careful here. Are you seeing certain views because they are amplified, or is it because they are more prevalent than you think.

    I know from my personal experience, from people I meet day to day at work, in the street, online, that certain views which people think are only due to "radicalisation" are far more common than people think.

    This is the problem of echo chambers. You assume the political opinion of society at large mirrors your echo chamber.

    particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned acco (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)

    I don't recall them shutting down Grok.


    I'm not sure what you are getting at here...

    Both, I believe. When one eventually realizes they're sitting at the
    nazi bar, that drives many away.

    However, I appreciate your discussion on it!
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux

    I've heard the phrase before, but it just doesn't make sense to me. This seems to be a thing that people of a particular political bent hold, that doesn't make much sense outside of that in-group. If there are people who are on a platform, who have views you don't subscribe to, it doesn't mean anything, unless that platform is specifically designed for said group.

    Again, I find it concerning that so many today think it a positive strategy to disengage and segregate themselves, and not listen to challenging ideas.

    ... Top secret! Burn before reading!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Fri Apr 10 07:09:09 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to The Wanderer on Sat Apr 11 2026 12:40 am

    One has to be careful here. Are you seeing certain views because they are amplified, or is it because they are more prevalent than you think.

    I think this thread is dangerously close to being off-topic as political, so we'll try and keep this narrowly focused.

    Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speaking specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent since Musk took over. It wasn't hidden, it's not an opinion that "oh it's now not what I believe in", it's been very clear what his goals were and what's been implemented.

    particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned
    acco (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)
    I don't recall them shutting down Grok.
    I'm not sure what you are getting at here...

    Grok is or was generating CSAM, but they haven't pulled Grok off the platform.

    Again, I find it concerning that so many today think it a positive strategy to disengage and segregate themselves, and not listen to challenging ideas.

    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and did I mention hate speech?

    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    Are you familiar with the intolerance paradox?

    Are you familiar with https://xkcd.com/1357/ ?
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From Retroswim@21:2/121 to boraxman on Sat Apr 11 18:04:18 2026
    By being exposed to other views, you have your own views challenged, and what you perceive to be right is tested. Now, you may find out you are wrong. But even if you are right, and the view you are exposed to is wrong, you now know better why you are right. You now know WHY they are wrong.

    This all assumes a well-educated, rational person, acting in good faith, capable of introspection.

    There are untold millions of people in the world who lack education, aren't rational, choose not to act in good faith, and are either incapable or unwilling to be introspective, or some combination of these attributes

    Social media is designed specifically to dissuade the kind of consideration you're talking about. Posts sink or swim on popularity, not merit. Popularity drives engagement, engagement generates ad views, ad views generate revenue.

    An example:

    Nobody on Twitter ever said "You've given me food for thought, thank you for sharing this cited evidence supporting your claims regarding which way to face the toilet paper roll. I will consider this and possibly reshape my views."

    Because that's an end of a discussion.

    What we get however, is "You're an idiot. Toilet roll facing forward is obviously what god intended (Lavatories 7:4-6). I will shoot you in the street if I find out you face it backwards."

    Then you get likes from the forward-facing camp, and angry replies from the backward-facing camp, and Twitter makes more money. This post has engagement, floats to the top, seen by more people, the cycle continues.

    Nothing of value is added to the world. Neither side is re-evaluating their views. Neither side is any the wiser. Even if one side was at some point interested in hearing dissenting views, they were ratio'd by the reply, and they get nothing

    I had a work colleage tell me he went on X a bit, saw views he didn't like and leave. To me, someone like that has no business weighing in on anything. They forfeit their right to have their opinion on topics taken seriously.

    I don't know about you, but if I was a customer at a business, and other customers told me I should be dead because I had some physical trait, or was born in some particular country, I probably wouldn't go back. Heck, if they were saying those things to a customer other than myself, I probably still would leave.

    Perhaps the view he didn't like was "You're either with us, or you're the enemy."

    Social media was a mistake.

    Cheers,
    RetroSwim

    --- Ezycom V2.15g1 01FD0295
    * Origin: >> Pool's Open - The RetroSwim BBS (21:2/121)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 01:04:31 2026
    I think this thread is dangerously close to being off-topic as
    political, so we'll try and keep this narrowly focused.

    Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speaking specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent since Musk took over. It wasn't hidden, it's not an opinion that "oh
    it's now not what I believe in", it's been very clear what his goals
    were and what's been implemented.


    I don't know and I have to judge for myself. I don't really trust other peoples opinions, because they could very well be someone that sees some normal opinion as "extremist". There are so many different calibrations of what is deemed "acceptable".

    Grok is or was generating CSAM, but they haven't pulled Grok off the platform.


    I heard of this. Is this something particular to Grok, or is it an AI flaw in general? Agree it should be curtailed until it is fixed.

    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and
    did I mention hate speech?

    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech
    isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    Are you familiar with the intolerance paradox?

    Are you familiar with https://xkcd.com/1357/ ?

    I've seen that xkcd before, and I'm familiar with the intolerance paradox.

    The xkcd misses the point of free speech and gets it backwards. Free Speech was NOT about giving you the freedom to say what you like. The reason that Free Speech was deemed important, and as described by Mill, was that it was necessary to determine truth, correct misinformation and challenge incorrect ideas. It was not just to allow you to express yourself. Many Conservatives get this wrong too as they think it is about the persons right to speak. People confuse freedom of expression with freedom of speech.

    Mill realised that while letting ideas spread freely could cause harm, it is overall less harmful than having people be prevented from hearing contrary ideas. Even if the ideas are wrong.

    Now yes, it is true that people are free to choose not to listen, though I take issue with the idea that cancellation is valid. My argument is that people who chose to exercise the right to not listen to opposing ideas, forfeit their right to be any kind of authority, or have any reasonable respect in public discourse. Its is a disaster to have such people actually in positions where they make decisions that affect others. This is something I feel strongly about as I've been negatively impacted by such people, people who implemented terrible ideas, but don't know the've bad because they've literally chosen to never be challenged.

    ... Kids: They're not sleeping, they're recharging!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Retroswim on Sun Apr 12 01:22:10 2026
    This all assumes a well-educated, rational person, acting in good faith, capable of introspection.

    There are untold millions of people in the world who lack education, aren't rational, choose not to act in good faith, and are either
    incapable or unwilling to be introspective, or some combination of these attributes

    Social media is designed specifically to dissuade the kind of consideration you're talking about. Posts sink or swim on popularity,
    not merit. Popularity drives engagement, engagement generates ad views,
    ad views generate revenue.

    An example:

    Nobody on Twitter ever said "You've given me food for thought, thank you for sharing this cited evidence supporting your claims regarding which
    way to face the toilet paper roll. I will consider this and possibly reshape my views."

    Because that's an end of a discussion.

    What we get however, is "You're an idiot. Toilet roll facing forward is obviously what god intended (Lavatories 7:4-6). I will shoot you in the street if I find out you face it backwards."

    Then you get likes from the forward-facing camp, and angry replies from the backward-facing camp, and Twitter makes more money. This post has engagement, floats to the top, seen by more people, the cycle continues.

    Nothing of value is added to the world. Neither side is re-evaluating their views. Neither side is any the wiser. Even if one side was at some point interested in hearing dissenting views, they were ratio'd by the reply, and they get nothing


    I sort of agree. It does assume a rational, intelligent and well rounded person. I would NOT say educated, as a lot of education now is just indoctrination and many are probably better without the so called education they got.

    But I don't think it is Social MEdia per se. People have always been like this, it is Social Media that has amplified their voice. The crazies now are not confined to street corners, they can reach thousands. Worse, they can connect easily with other crazies.

    The other aspect, is people are seeing how everyone ACTUALLY thinks, which shocks many. People do come to their own conclusions, but its easy to blame algorithms when you dont want to admit that.

    Now, this is not a popular opinion of mine, but I think the other issue is I think that people should really stick to their own personal lives, and not get engaged in politics unless they ARE well rounded.

    I don't know about you, but if I was a customer at a business, and other customers told me I should be dead because I had some physical trait, or was born in some particular country, I probably wouldn't go back. Heck,
    if they were saying those things to a customer other than myself, I probably still would leave.

    Perhaps the view he didn't like was "You're either with us, or you're the enemy."

    Social media was a mistake.

    Cheers,
    RetroSwim

    That I agree with. I don't really believe in freedom of expression.

    My issue is more with people who simply think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is evil and should be shut down. I hear that all too often.

    Social Media is both a blessing and a curse. It really does depend on the maturity of the person engaging with it.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From RetroSwim@21:2/150 to boraxman on Sat Apr 11 07:28:41 2026
    I sort of agree. It does assume a rational, intelligent and well rounded person. I would NOT say educated, as a lot of education now is just indoctrination and many are probably better without the so called education they got.

    Educated not necessarily meaning some predetermined level of formal study, moreso having some basic idea about the world beyond one's bedroom walls.

    For instance, when people were confusing Georgia the country, with Georgia the state, and confidently entering discourse about electoral fraud on that basis. You don't need university to not be that stupid.

    Perhaps that kind of thing falls under "well rounded"?

    People do come to their own conclusions, but its
    easy to blame algorithms when you dont want to admit that.

    I'm more blaming the algorithm for disincentivising earnest conversation. Intelligent, rational, well-rounded people won't bother contributing well-thought-out posts, knowing they will be swamped with rage-baiting trash, and never seen.

    Now, this is not a popular opinion of mine, but I think the other issue
    is I think that people should really stick to their own personal lives, and not get engaged in politics unless they ARE well rounded.

    For real!

    But alas, it's hard to "know what you don't know". Everyone thinks they are well-rounded! lol

    My issue is more with people who simply think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is evil and should be shut down. I hear that all too often.

    Agree, that's unhelpful regardless of the context.

    Social Media is both a blessing and a curse. It really does depend on
    the maturity of the person engaging with it.

    Maturity on social media is in short supply, sadly haha!

    Cheers,
    RetroSwim

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to Retroswim on Sat Apr 11 09:06:44 2026
    Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-

    Social media is designed specifically to dissuade the kind of consideration you're talking about. Posts sink or swim on popularity,
    not merit. Popularity drives engagement, engagement generates ad views,
    ad views generate revenue.

    [...snip...]

    Social media was a mistake.

    Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also have the
    bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing
    to arguements.

    It is a big mistake.



    ... "Mmmmmmmm.....chocolate."
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Project Scorpio TEST (21:1/175.6)
  • From Jegor@21:3/228 to Mike Powell on Sat Apr 11 17:26:09 2026
    Hello Mike!

    11 Apr 26 09:06, you wrote to Retroswim:

    Social media was a mistake.
    Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also
    have the bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing to arguements.

    I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression it's intended for human beings to use.

    Jegor

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: (21:3/228)
  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to Jegor on Sat Apr 11 22:48:48 2026
    Social media was a mistake.
    Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also
    have the bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing to arguements.

    I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression it's intended for human beings to use.


    There are real people still out there, but with all the AI generated things and bot posts, it makes it more difficult to determine how real they are if you don't know them in real life. :(

    Mike

    --- ScorpioWeb v0.22a (Linux/x86_64)
    * Origin: Project Scorpio TEST (21:1/175.6)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to RetroSwim on Sun Apr 12 13:09:59 2026
    Educated not necessarily meaning some predetermined level of formal
    study, moreso having some basic idea about the world beyond one's
    bedroom walls.

    For instance, when people were confusing Georgia the country, with
    Georgia the state, and confidently entering discourse about electoral fraud on that basis. You don't need university to not be that stupid.

    Perhaps that kind of thing falls under "well rounded"?

    Yes, and also having some wisdom, being able to use knowledge to make the right judgements. Understanding the consequences of actions.

    I'm more blaming the algorithm for disincentivising earnest conversation. Intelligent, rational, well-rounded people won't bother contributing well-thought-out posts, knowing they will be swamped with rage-baiting trash, and never seen.


    I use Usenet as a case study. Try engaging in any debate on usenet, and it is an absolute crap-show. Usenet isn't that big, but its crazy. No algorithm there. Looking back, the difference between a place where you can have reasonable conversation and where you cant, it came to the people. Even back in the old phpBB forum days, some were just hot garbage because the people were garbage. Do agree the algorithms get in the way.

    For real!

    But alas, it's hard to "know what you don't know". Everyone thinks they are well-rounded! lol

    Agree, that's unhelpful regardless of the context.

    Maturity on social media is in short supply, sadly haha!

    Cheers,
    RetroSwim

    Often people ask me for my opinion on this or that, and sometimes I just say "Its not for me to say", for example, if asked about Israel-Palestine or something like that. I can't be bothered arguing things that don't matter to me and rather than risk appearing dumb "It's not something I felt the need to explore" is a better response.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Mike Powell on Sun Apr 12 13:12:41 2026
    Yes. In addition to people doing the things you mention, you also have the bot farms that are set up to drive social media engagement by contributing to arguements.

    It is a big mistake.


    Thats kind of why I like it here... No bots!

    I will follow some people on Social Media, but I just disregard any comment to a post which doesn't appear well thought out. Just assume its a bot, or some troll, or someone just sowing discord. Usually any responses are garbage.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Jegor on Sun Apr 12 13:14:03 2026

    I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or
    just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression it's intended for human beings to use.

    Jegor

    I really don't use it. Just a few accounts on X I follow, from people who have a presence elsewhere as well, who do put well thought out posts.

    Essentially I just treat it as if it were a blogging platform.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From RetroSwim@21:2/150 to boraxman on Sat Apr 11 19:30:26 2026
    Often people ask me for my opinion on this or that, and sometimes I just say "Its not for me to say", for example, if asked about
    Israel-Palestine or something like that. I can't be bothered arguing things that don't matter to me and rather than risk appearing dumb
    "It's not something I felt the need to explore" is a better response.

    I wish more people would do this! :D

    Cheers,
    RetroSwim

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbs>>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)
  • From Tiny@21:1/700 to Boraxman on Sun Apr 12 03:21:27 2026
    Hi Boraxman,
    In a message to Mike Powell you wrote:

    Thats kind of why I like it here... No bots!

    I mean... we've been running bots for longer then AI was a thing.
    Areafix, Filefix etc etc. I know that's not what you were talking
    about, just had to be a smart ass and comment.

    ... I used to be schizophrenic, but we're alright now.


    * SeM. 2.26 * paranoia: believing this tagline is about you.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)
  • From The Wanderer@21:3/233 to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 07:48:53 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 2026 01:04 am

    Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speaking
    specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent
    I don't know and I have to judge for myself. I don't really trust other peoples opinions, because they could very well be someone that sees some

    How is one supposed to see this as anything but "That goes counter to my opinion and I'm not seeking out detail from credible sources?"

    This is cognitive dissonance par excellence.

    I heard of this. Is this something particular to Grok, or is it an AI flaw in general? Agree it should be curtailed until it is fixed.

    This was Musk's forcing the Twitter team to make Grok "less woke". It's not a flaw in "AI", whatever that would purportedly mean.

    The xkcd misses the point of free speech and gets it backwards. Free Speech was NOT about giving you the freedom to say what you like. The reason that Free Speech was deemed important, and as described by Mill, was that it was necessary to determine truth, correct misinformation and challenge incorrect ideas. It was not just to allow you to express

    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.

    It's exactly what we see playing out in too many places presently.

    The xkcd is referring to the people whining about being cancelled, which, if you want to talk cancelling, should probably be a little better defined as to what you mean.
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to RetroSwim on Sun Apr 12 14:28:06 2026
    I'm more blaming the algorithm for disincentivising earnest conversation. Intelligent, rational, well-rounded people won't bother contributing well-thought-out posts, knowing they will be swamped with rage-baiting trash, and never seen.

    I am _slowly_ learning that the point of YouTube posts is to tell the algorithm that you're engaged with the content, and would like to see more. And that others may also be interested.

    It is not the place for reasoned discussion, especially on a channel of any size.

    But, e.g., if you comment on Paulie420's channel (TechHeart), likely he's reading it and will consider it, even if he disagrees.

    Still, I am the, "someone on the internet is WRONG" type, and am always struggling with not responding to things, because these are very much things where I can only make my own state worse.

    My issue is more with people who simply think that anyone who doesn't agree with them is evil and should be shut down. I hear that all too often.

    Agree, that's unhelpful regardless of the context.

    I struggle with this one, because of not entirely believing that the statement is accurate. (to be precise, that it's, "people who don't agree with me are evil", as opposed to, "people who believe certain things are evil". And I would bet that we'd probably be able to come up with certain beliefs that we all agree make a person evil.)

    Oftentimes I've found the situation more akin to saying, "I'm sorry, but certain people are banned from my house because they're awful to be around.".

    All that said, I have had enough online "discussions" with people that I'm sure what is described _actually_ happens, as there are times when I know it's better to keep my fingers off my keyboard rather than engage on the finer points of some issue.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    boraxman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard.

    X is not open, and certainly isn't free speech. There have been
    multiple documented cases of people being muted on X.

    Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict
    with you, but thats just another echo chamber.

    Mastodon is an open federated network - you connect to multiple
    servers, each with their own terms of service, orientation and rules.

    You have just as much chance of an echo chamber on X - more, when you
    consider your feed is manipulated by X to keep you scrolling.

    I think for public discourse, it is important that people are exposed
    to contrary ideas.

    Agreed.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to fusion on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    fusion wrote to boraxman <=-

    i don't recall if it was around here (bbs scene) or elsewhere but
    someone had mentioned some of the mastodon clients that would be the
    most useful (phone) come pre-configured to ban a collection of various servers for reasons you may or may not agree with.

    the problem is you don't really get to choose..

    You don't need to use one of those mastodon clients that pre-ban
    servers, if they exist. You can use one of many clients available.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    Adept wrote to boraxman <=-

    But chatting on FSXnet is significantly more pleasant to me than elsewhere, and whether or not people consider it an echo chamber, I'd vastly prefer it over places where "engagement" means rage bait and controversy.

    This is a nice throwback to before social media, when people could
    disagree without rage.

    Here, it feels like we have at least a little more, "consider the
    people behind the screen", and thus it feels a bit more human than I
    seem to be able to get over much of the rest of the internet.

    One thing I miss about the old days are the gettogethers. Flame all you
    want on the boards, but a couple of times a year you'd get together and
    realize the person on the other side of the argument has more in common
    with you than you thought. That was part of the subculture effect of
    dial-up BBSes - most people didn't know what a modem was, let alone
    what you could do with it.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-

    No... free speech at all costs is not healthy, and X isn't even that.
    It's free speech if Elon agrees with you (mostly), but X is now really quite well known as being a toxic shithole.

    I'm amazed that section 230 of the USA Communications Decency act has
    held up - that was a section of the code that held "online services"
    protected from lawsuits.

    It used to be that online services claimed their role as an information distributor, not a publisher. in Cubby vs. CompuServe, CompuServe
    claimed that they published content and didn't moderate, as they
    couldn't moderate every piece of information on their service.
    Additionally, since they only displayed what was posted, their role was
    an intermediary.

    Flash forward to present day, where Facebook and X manipulate feeds to
    show specific content to users, and the old 230 defense falls apart.

    I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd
    just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.



    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    boraxman wrote to The Wanderer <=-

    What do people get banned for? Is there censorship?

    Genuinely asking. I've heard people complain and leave because of what
    IS said, but I haven't heard of people leaving because they've had a particular point of view blocked. There are some extreme banned
    accounts (violence, CP, etc, which is fine)

    People get blocked for violating the "terms of service" without any
    description or recourse.


    ... All those updates, and still imperfect!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-

    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and
    did I mention hate speech?

    I agree, wholeheartedly. Who's forcing me to listen to that? If I'm
    reading it on X, I can mute the author. The platform is going to cater
    to my political bent to keep me on the system with just enough vitriol
    to anger me - but not enough to ditch the platform.

    At no point by someone expressing their opinions do I feel forced to
    listen to it, nor do I feel that someone's opinions directly affect
    what I think.

    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech
    isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
    yourself on others?







    Are you familiar with the intolerance paradox?

    Are you familiar with https://xkcd.com/1357/ ?
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Yak Station - Some yakkin' happenin'... (21:3/233)

    ... Beware standards your own religion can't uphold
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Jegor on Sun Apr 12 10:30:51 2026
    Jegor wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I wonder if there are any real people left on social media at all, or
    just the bot farms? At least FB's UI doesn't give me the impression
    it's intended for human beings to use.

    Bot traffic on the net as a whole reached a point where it makes up 51%
    of traffic on the internet - including web crawlers, X bots and others.



    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to The Wanderer on Tue Apr 14 01:33:48 2026
    The Wanderer wrote to boraxman <=-

    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to The Wanderer on Sun Apr 12 2026 01:04 am

    Your statement quoted above misses the point that we're speaking
    specifically about X, and it's very clear how the platform has been bent
    I don't know and I have to judge for myself. I don't really trust other peoples opinions, because they could very well be someone that sees some

    How is one supposed to see this as anything but "That goes counter to
    my opinion and I'm not seeking out detail from credible sources?"

    This is cognitive dissonance par excellence.

    We can discuss the facts, but a statement that Elon is a "Nazi" is an intepretation. What Elon plans to do, based on that interpretation is
    just a guess. If that person is politically motivated, I do not take
    it as an informed opinion.

    I heard of this. Is this something particular to Grok, or is it an AI flaw in general? Agree it should be curtailed until it is fixed.

    This was Musk's forcing the Twitter team to make Grok "less woke". It's not a flaw in "AI", whatever that would purportedly mean.

    AI just does what its programmed to do anyway.

    The xkcd misses the point of free speech and gets it backwards. Free Speech was NOT about giving you the freedom to say what you like. The reason that Free Speech was deemed important, and as described by Mill, was that it was necessary to determine truth, correct misinformation and challenge incorrect ideas. It was not just to allow you to express

    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable
    by fascists for authoritarian ends.

    It's exactly what we see playing out in too many places presently.

    This is heading into politics. I'll say that Mill was aware of the
    danger of bad ideas spreading, and it WOULD cause harm, but it was the
    lesser of two evils.

    I agree with Mill. Human society has run into bad consequences where
    people are not permitted to discuss things.

    I'm not aware of any malevolent regime that permitted and protected
    criticism of it. To say that they use "free speech" just doesn't
    match history at all. People were NOT free to speak.

    The argument is actually that they used bad ideas which is true. This
    is not an argument against free speech.

    Remember, the point of free speech is not "I say whatever I like".
    The point of free speech is "I get to hear whatever I might need to
    hear".


    The xkcd is referring to the people whining about being cancelled,
    which, if you want to talk cancelling, should probably be a little
    better defined as to what you mean.

    Hence why its silly. Its making an argument that people are "free to
    not listen", but then condones cancelling, ie, prevening OTHERS from
    hearing speech as well. Its Reddit tier reasoning.

    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Adept on Mon Apr 13 08:58:55 2026
    Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
    yourself on others?

    It's the same thing as saying, "I don't invite jerks to my party".

    The person is welcome to say whatever they want to say; just not in any place I am, and they don't get to force me out because of some weird "freedom of speech" where they make the place awful.

    Certain sorts of places stop existing when you let the jerks run the place.

    Agreed, I was speaking more about the notion of forcing others to
    modify their speech based on the claim that they were forced to listen
    to the "objectionable" party's free speech.

    With regards to the viability of spaces (like these), agreed that some
    moderation is a good thing -- for the viability of a private space.

    If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because
    it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we
    should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".

    We can twit users, or mute them, or whatever term is used for limiting
    exposure to those people's speech. Or hit whatever button goes onto the
    next message. But, the point about preserving and promoting the venue
    still stands.




    ... UNPRISON YOUR THINK RHINO
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 13 07:32:43 2026
    It used to be that online services claimed their role as an information distributor, not a publisher. in Cubby vs. CompuServe, CompuServe
    claimed that they published content and didn't moderate, as they

    That's what things were _before_ Section 230.

    It's why CompuServe _won_ the pre-Section 230 lawsuit.

    The problem was with Prodigy, where they _did_ do moderation, but something slipped through that got them sued. Incidentally, it was evidently true, but made the Wolf of Wall Street look bad, or something.

    And Congress wanted more moderation of terrible things, not less, so wanted to encourage the Prodigy model over the Compuserve one.

    Anyway, solid chance I'm just agreeing with you because I misread what you said. If so, sorry about that, but what I _think_ you're saying is a common misconception of what the law actually does (and doesn't) do, for good or ill.

    Flash forward to present day, where Facebook and X manipulate feeds to show specific content to users, and the old 230 defense falls apart.

    ...which is to say, section 230 is literally what allows them to do this and not face any legal consequences.

    I suppose they're "too big to sue" now, or if 230 was breached, it'd
    just be a cost of business for a billion-dollar service.

    ...but agreed, here, regardless. I think of section 230 goes away, it's probably fine for the big companies. Fine to the point where they're probably for it, because they have teams of lawyers, now, and this sort of thing stops new competition from creeping in.

    And probably causes problems for the Fediverse.

    Anyway, since we're talking Section 230, 230(c)(1) of the CDA says, "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Adept@21:2/108 to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 13 07:49:21 2026
    Nobody has the right to force themselves on others, and free speech isn't a crutch to try and do that with.

    But, isn't censoring unsavory thoughts and speech by definition forcing
    yourself on others?

    It's the same thing as saying, "I don't invite jerks to my party".

    The person is welcome to say whatever they want to say; just not in any place I am, and they don't get to force me out because of some weird "freedom of speech" where they make the place awful.

    Certain sorts of places stop existing when you let the jerks run the place.

    E.g., if there's some misogynistic jerk who loudly tells all the women they should dress to meet his expectations.

    If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".

    If being forced to put up with people like that is what people think of "free speech", then I am against free speech. And find it odd that people _want_ that sort of thing, aside from when _they_ are the misogynistic jerk.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to boraxman on Wed Apr 15 03:16:48 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to Khronos on Wed Apr 08 2026 12:38 am



    I almost forgot about Mastodon...

    Mastodon is federated right? Is there some central control? I'm wary of platforms where there is undue censorship.

    There is no central control but software packages themselves can be used for gatekeeping. Meaning clients might come with hardcoded blacklists or server packages can include servers which are banned by default. This is a subject that used to spark a lot of talk.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to boraxman on Wed Apr 15 03:23:55 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Apr 09 2026 01:40 am


    I think I prefer just to have a single, proper open network with free speech. Elon has done well with X in this regard. The thing with Mastodon, is that wouldn't that lead to echo chambers? Sure, maybe you can find some place which has an editorial bent that doesn't conflict with you, but thats just another echo chamber.

    The point of the Fediverse is that it is like a modern reimplementation of ld school BBS. Here you call the BBS you prefer but can read from users of other BBS and send them messages from your own BBS. The idea behind the Fediverse is the same: you are active in a Fediverse node but can follow users from other nodes.

    It only becomes an echo chamber if the operator of your node is an asshat who bans other nodes because of arbitrary reasons,


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 03:27:56 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to boraxman on Wed Apr 08 2026 08:55 am

    I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as being a good thing.

    The issue I have is the sort of people who bans servers because they have some user who is an extremist are typically extremists themselves and therefore they get to lecture nobody as to the need of banning extremist views.

    I like the BBS style approach.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 03:44:08 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to boraxman on Fri Apr 10 2026 07:09 am


    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and did I mention hate speech?


    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    As far as I know you can block anything you dislike, being in X doesn't force you to interact with anybody else in the platform in particular.

    My hypothesis is that people complaining that they have to deal with certain opinions on a platform are not really bothered because they actually have to interact with them. What bothers them is those opinions exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From fusion@21:1/616 to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 04:53:40 2026
    On 15 Apr 2026, Arelor said the following...

    exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a
    perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.

    bingo ;)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to boraxman on Wed Apr 15 04:07:47 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: boraxman to RetroSwim on Sun Apr 12 2026 01:09 pm

    I use Usenet as a case study. Try engaging in any debate on usenet, and it is crazy.

    That is a very good point.

    I wish I could bring Forocoches to the discussion. It is the biggest Spanish web forum. It is geared towards cars and car mechanics, but their off-topic section is highly popular and it is known for an anything goes policy.

    There is no algorythm there promoting posts or content. It is as vanilla as you may expect a forum to be.

    It is both glorious and depresing at the same time. There are lots of moronic people mixed with people who has interesting and well argumented things to say. There you can find all the unpopular opinions that used to be blacklisted from curated social media and their counters. I like using it as an example of what society is actually like when it is not being curtailed. It takes all the ideas they told you are extremist and held only by a minority of derranged individuals and shows you about half of the population actually backs them.

    When you move into a curated social media in which only your opinion is acceptable, you are shielded from this reality. No wonder you can't handle different opinions when you walk outside and it turns out your ideas are not half as opular as you used to think.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 04:11:59 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: The Wanderer to boraxman on Sun Apr 12 2026 07:48 am


    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.


    Yeah, Fascists can benefit from free speech.

    Fascist also benefit from water. Therefore, in order to fight Fascism, we must ban water. No matter the cost of society as a whole.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
    --- SBBSecho 3.37-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)
  • From Arelor@21:2/138 to Adept on Wed Apr 15 04:26:11 2026
    Re: Re: Social Media
    By: Adept to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Apr 13 2026 07:49 am

    If he's not banned, or told that he has to not mention those things in this place, I'm not going to go to that event, or that site. Because it's extremely unpleasant, and I find it odd that people think we should have to listen to all the jerks because of "free speech".

    If being forced to put up with people like that is what people think of "free speech", then I am against free speech. And find it odd that people _want_ that sort of thing, aside from when _they_ are the misogynistic jerk.
    There is a lot to talk about in these two paragraphs.

    First things first: it is ok for a site to have people you don't like and it is ok for you to find places you do like. That much is obvious. I gravitate towards communities that I either like or help me get tasks done. It is not reasonable to expect all events, sites or communities to be welcoming towards you. There are lots of Internet places whose members I don't like and that is perfectly fine, I just don't go there.

    But, when it comes to big platforms, you don't really have the excuse that the platform is forcing you to talk to people you dislike because you can decide not to interact with people. It is not like they can walk up to you like in a physical party and yell at your face.

    boraxman here has already explained by somebody would prefer having to deal with "unacceptable" ideas in a free environment than deal with the opposite scenario and I think the argument is well built. In face of it my hypothesis is the people who does not want it is people who can't manage the fact somebody, somewhere, has an opinion they don't share.


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  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 01:06:49 2026

    I don't understand the notion of forcing extreme speech on people as be good thing.

    The issue I have is the sort of people who bans servers because they
    have some user who is an extremist are typically extremists themselves
    and therefore they get to lecture nobody as to the need of banning extremist views.

    I like the BBS style approach.

    I prefer the BBS style approach too. The good thing is, that a sysop has the freedom to kick someone of their BBS, but that doesn't deny that person acces to FSXNet or DoveNet or FidoNet

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 01:08:24 2026
    It's people's right to not be forced to listen to hate speech, racist speech, calls for genocide, disagreeing with people who want to 'other' everybody who's not just like them, disagreeing with disinformation, misinformation, conspiracy theory, people who are just wrong, oh, and d mention hate speech?


    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    As far as I know you can block anything you dislike, being in X doesn't force you to interact with anybody else in the platform in particular.

    My hypothesis is that people complaining that they have to deal with certain opinions on a platform are not really bothered because they actually have to interact with them. What bothers them is those opinions exist at all, which is entirely a different matter. If they had a
    perfect filter that allowed them not to read anything from anybody they disliked, they would still sit in their little corner of the Internet, sweating and trembling because somewhere, somebody is posting the wrong opinion.


    They say no one should be forced, but then expect us all to sit throught their training and being indoctrinated with their ideology.

    If my work can force me to sit through some "diversity" training, then yes, I'm having someones views forced on me.

    ... I'm not a complete idiot... Several parts are missing!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From boraxman@21:1/101 to Arelor on Thu Apr 16 01:15:23 2026
    That is a very good point.

    I wish I could bring Forocoches to the discussion. It is the biggest Spanish web forum. It is geared towards cars and car mechanics, but
    their off-topic section is highly popular and it is known for an
    anything goes policy.

    There is no algorythm there promoting posts or content. It is as vanilla as you may expect a forum to be.

    It is both glorious and depresing at the same time. There are lots of moronic people mixed with people who has interesting and well argumented things to say. There you can find all the unpopular opinions that used
    to be blacklisted from curated social media and their counters. I like using it as an example of what society is actually like when it is not being curtailed. It takes all the ideas they told you are extremist and held only by a minority of derranged individuals and shows you about
    half of the population actually backs them.

    When you move into a curated social media in which only your opinion is acceptable, you are shielded from this reality. No wonder you can't
    handle different opinions when you walk outside and it turns out your ideas are not half as opular as you used to think.



    This is exactly what I find. People who tend to stick to their own social media echo chambers are genuinely *shocked* when they hear that other people disagree. In fact, many simply refuse to believe it. They put it down to conspiracy theories.

    This is the most depressing of all. They think that anyone who disagrees has been brainwashed by a giant conspiracy, because they cannot fathom how any human could come to that conclusion on their own. Yet it obvious to most people how they did. Even worse, you tell them that people came to those opinions because of what they saw and experienced, and they STILL refuse to believe it. They must have seen wrong. they must have had the idea implanted in their head.

    ... I don't have the time for a hobby. I have a computer.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@21:4/122 to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 06:51:21 2026
    Arelor wrote to The Wanderer <=-

    Fascist also benefit from water. Therefore, in order to fight Fascism,
    we must ban water. No matter the cost of society as a whole.

    That's why I only drink pure rainwater and grain alcohol.


    ... When in doubt, predict that the trend will continue.
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
    * Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)
  • From Mike Powell@21:1/175.6 to The Wanderer on Wed Apr 15 09:53:12 2026
    What Mill got wrong was that as described, "free speech" is exploitable by fascists for authoritarian ends.


    Unfortunately, free speech is exploitable by any group for any ends. You
    could just as easily substitute "communists," "socialists," "theocrats," and several other groups there in place of "fascists" and it is still correct.

    "anarchists for anarchy" would also fit.

    I see free speech as a two-way street. The listener doesn't have to listen and, if they do, they need to use their brains to filter out the garbage.

    ... "Television! Teacher, Mother, Secret Lover..." - Homer
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Project Scorpio TEST (21:1/175.6)
  • From NuSkooler@21:1/121 to Arelor on Wed Apr 15 10:35:15 2026
    Twas Wednesday, April 15th when Arelor said...
    Just how does X force you to listen or read anything these days?

    X has and is used by top officials around the globe. Pretending it's "just a form" is either incredibly ignorant, or intentionally side stepping the fact.


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