Hi Nigel, replying here from previous discussion in FSX_NET.

I have a script converting the Astronomy Picture Of The Day to SIXEL for
viewing in Syncterm (or other sixel-supporting terminal) on my BBS, so have
been checking it every morning and I panic when it's not updated. :)

I have the same but I just pick up the last image so if I don't have the NR> most recent then it'll display something, at least.

Great minds think alike! :)

I connected to your BBS to take a look, and on my first call was greeted with a wonderful sixel graphic in your login screen. Very nice! I reconnected a few more times and saw some of your other login screens, I like the variety.

Do you do any kind of aspect ratio correction to images when converting to sixel? I noticed that on my system, when I connect with SyncTerm with the window in 4:3 aspect ratio, I had to adjust the aspect ratio of the images so they don't appear squished.

I'm not sure that resizing the images the way I am doing it is the best way (I think for other terminals it results in stretched images). I don't know if it's even reasonable to assume people are using a 4:3 aspect ratio terminal these days.

FYI for anyone interested, I am using ImageMagick to convert:

# adjust aspect ratio
convert -resize 100%x83%! APODxxxx.JPG 4X3.JPG

# resize to maximum dimensions 640x360 and convert to sixel
convert -resize 640x360\> 4X3.JPG APOD.SIX


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

On 19 Mar 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

I connected to your BBS to take a look, and on my first call was greeted with a wonderful sixel graphic in your login screen. Very nice! I reconnected a few more times and saw some of your other login screens, I like the variety.

I wasn't really aware of this being a "thing" so I logged into Nigel's BBS to have a look:

https://ibb.co/3mLzvNk

This is very cool! I'm going to have to play with this a bit now...


Jay

... Demons always win in court because possession is nine-tenths of the law

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Hello Warpslide!

I wasn't really aware of this being a "thing" so I logged into Nigel's BBS to have a look:

https://ibb.co/3mLzvNk

This is very cool! I'm going to have to play with this a bit now...

I never heard of sixel graphics before. The result is very
nice indeed. That should be used on most BBSes, imho.


--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (} Pointy McPointFace (21:4/106.21)

https://ibb.co/3mLzvNk

This is very cool! I'm going to have to play with this a bit now...

Yes! Sixel graphics in terminals is pretty neat to start with, and that login screen on End Of the Line BBS is a fantastic example!

A site with a list of terminal clients that do (or don't) support sixels: https://www.arewesixelyet.com

Another BBS with some great sixel graphics is Dock Sud BBS, there are a couple images shown after logging in (I think there's multiple in rotation as well), they're very cool also. bbs.docksud.com.ar


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

No, You've caught my attention!
This is something I want to have a look into. I'll have to log into the BBS to see it in action but always looking for something to help dress up the Queen City. I took the Linux Mint motto and was shooting for simple and elegant so I didn't deviate from the stock too far to date but did start shifting some colors and a little bit of custom ASCII menu headers. So adding utilizing some graphics support for images would be super.
N2QFD

-------------
][ bst 73 ][
][ de N2QFD][
-------------

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Queen City BBS (21:1/154)

Quoting Ogg to Warpslide <=-

I never heard of sixel graphics before. The result is very
nice indeed. That should be used on most BBSes, imho.

Talisman BBS supports them out of the box. I used to have a few pics
hidden throughout my BBS in various menus. :)

Shawn

... Freedom of choice is not your freedom to make my choices!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (21:1/700)

On Wednesday March 20 2024, Tiny said the following...

Talisman BBS supports them out of the box. I used to have a few pics hidden throughout my BBS in various menus. :)

I used your instructions and converted the apod to .six and tried displaying it with Mystic logged in via Syncterm but all I got was a wall of text.

I'm wondering if Mystic doesn't support them or maybe there's something else I need to do?


Jay

... I counted my chickens as I put my eggs in one basket
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240309
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Re: Re: Sixels
By: Warpslide to AKAcastor on Tue Mar 19 2024 05:32 pm

I wasn't really aware of this being a "thing" so I logged into Nigel's BBS to have a look:

https://ibb.co/3mLzvNk

That's one of the themes in my login matrix. :) I have that on my BBS as well.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

I took the Linux Mint motto and was shooting for simple
and elegant so I didn't deviate from the stock too far
to date but did start shifting some colors and a little
bit of custom ASCII menu headers. So adding utilizing
some graphics support for images would be super.

For sure the sixel graphics give us a nice opportunity to add new visuals while maintaining compatibility! It's a nice surprise when one pops up.

I hope the astronomy picture of the day worked when you called in! I like that SyncTerm shows the sixels progressively as it is received, some of the other clients don't show the image until it's all been received (IcyTerm). The progressive loading of the image adds to the effect, IMO.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

I used your instructions and converted the apod to .six
and tried displaying it with Mystic logged in via
Syncterm but all I got was a wall of text.

Hmm, well a wall of text does sound right for a terminal client that doesn't support sixels - but SyncTerm should display them. (have you confirmed on another BBS that your copy of SyncTerm has sixel support enabled?)

I'm wondering if Mystic doesn't support them or maybe
there's something else I need to do?

I haven't used Mystic so I don't know if there's any kind of special case there. On my Maximus system, I am able to just display the sixel file as though it was a text file and the client is able to interpret it. Maximus itself doesn't recognize sixels but it passes the contents along as it is plain ASCII text.


FYI - Detecting if the connected caller's terminal has sixel support isn't too difficult, but from my tests different terminals respond to different queries.

"\x1b[4c" works with iTerm2
"\x1b[<0c" works with SyncTerm

Read the response which should end with 'c'. If the response has ;4 in it then that indicates that sixel is supported.

For sixel detection on my BBS, I send both strings ("\x1b[4c\x1b[<0c") and read until I receive a 'c' (or time out after a second or two). If I find ";4" in the response then I assume sixel support exists.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

On 20 Mar 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

Hmm, well a wall of text does sound right for a terminal client that doesn't support sixels - but SyncTerm should display them. (have you confirmed on another BBS that your copy of SyncTerm has sixel support enabled?)

Yup, this is the same copy of SyncTerm that I used to call Nigel's BBS & got the cool login screen.

"\x1b[4c" works with iTerm2
"\x1b[<0c" works with SyncTerm

For sixel detection on my BBS, I send both strings ("\x1b[4c\x1b[<0c")
and read until I receive a 'c' (or time out after a second or two). If
I find ";4" in the response then I assume sixel support exists.

So all I get when I display "\x1b[4c\x1b[<0c" is the 0c, so something isn't jiving. I downloaded some extra sixel images from:
https://github.com/jerch/node-sixel/tree/master/testfiles

Just in case my ImageMagick wasn't ImageMagick'ing properly, but the same wall of text with these images as well. I'll maybe spin up my Win 10 32-bit VM and try with Telegard.


Jay

... Rainbows don't weigh much, they're pretty light

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

On 20 Mar 2024, Warpslide said the following...

Just in case my ImageMagick wasn't ImageMagick'ing properly, but the
same wall of text with these images as well. I'll maybe spin up my Win
10 32-bit VM and try with Telegard.

No go with Telegard either, just a wall of text as well (w/ some pretty colours thrown in).


Jay

... Why did the banana go to the doctor? He wasn't peeling well!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

No go with Telegard either, just a wall of text as well
(w/ some pretty colours thrown in).

Any chance the escape sequences are being filtered out? The sixel graphics start with "\x1bP0;0;0q" like an ANSI escape sequence - maybe the ESC is being filtered out?

If additional ANSI codes are being inserted, I think that could also cause the sixel graphics to not be interpreted correctly.

Maybe try capturing 'raw' to a file with SyncTerm when attempting to view the sixel image - then the capture can be reviewed to ensure the sixel escape codes are correct.


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

On 20 Mar 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

Any chance the escape sequences are being filtered out? The sixel graphics start with "\x1bP0;0;0q" like an ANSI escape sequence - maybe
the ESC is being filtered out?

If additional ANSI codes are being inserted, I think that could also
cause the sixel graphics to not be interpreted correctly.

I'm using Mystic's GD (Display a file) menu option to display the file & it appears it's parsing the file looking for display codes like pipe codes and others that move the cursor location. I have data set to:
@115200@false@/home/ubuntu/mystic/apod.six

Which is supposed to turn off pausing but it will pause once while it's being displayed as (pipe)PA appears in the file. I'm not sure if there's a way to get Mystic to turn off processing display codes & deliver the raw file to the terminal. Does anyone know if that's possible in Mystic?


Jay

... What kind of horses go out after dark? Nightmares

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/04/30 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Northern Realms (21:3/110)

Re: Sixels
By: AKAcastor to Nigel Reed on Tue Mar 19 2024 11:56:04

I connected to your BBS to take a look, and on my first call was greeted with a wonderful sixel graphic in your login screen. Very nice! I reconnected a few more times and saw some of your other login screens, I like the variety.

Thank you but I cannot claim credit. That's the Digital Distortions Login Matrix by Nightfox. All credit to him.

Do you do any kind of aspect ratio correction to images when converting to sixel? I noticed that on my system, when I connect with SyncTerm with the window in 4:3 aspect ratio, I had to adjust the aspect ratio of the images so they don't appear squished.

How did they look on my system?

FYI for anyone interested, I am using ImageMagick to convert:

# adjust aspect ratio
convert -resize 100%x83%! APODxxxx.JPG 4X3.JPG

I use convert -geometry x380

I can't remember how I came up with that but it works on my terminal.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

Do you do any kind of aspect ratio correction to images when converting to sixel? I noticed that on my system, when I connect with SyncTerm with the window in 4:3 aspect ratio, I had to adjust the aspect ratio of the images so they don't appear squished.

How did they look on my system?

If I view the APOD on your system with my SyncTerm window in 4:3 aspect ratio, then the APOD image is a bit 'squished'.

But - if I view the APOD on my system with a SyncTerm window in 16:9 aspect ratio, then the APOD image is a bit 'stretched'. lol

I don't know what is the most common aspect ratio these days - IMO 4:3 aspect ratio is 'correct', but it doesn't seem like most terminals agree with me these days. SyncTerm allows you to resize the window to any aspect ratio you like, but some other software I have only been able to use in 16:9 aspect ratio as that's 'standard' today.

Also - other terminal software doesn't necessarily display sixels in the same way as SyncTerm - I think by adjusting the aspect ratio for SyncTerm 4:3 I am messing up the aspect ratio for other clients.

Besides the aspect ratio differences, I also haven't found if it's possible to specify the size a sixel should be displayed at - ie. should there be scaling applied to it. When I view the sixel graphics using iTerm2 it shows up very small on my screen due to the high resolution of the Macbook display.

FYI for anyone interested, I am using ImageMagick to convert:
# adjust aspect ratio
convert -resize 100%x83%! APODxxxx.JPG 4X3.JPG

I use convert -geometry x380
I can't remember how I came up with that but it works on my terminal.

I came up with my conversion by trial and error, so I just stumbled on something that seems to work 'well enough', looks like we ended up at similar resolution (I am converting down to 360 instead of 380 but hey pretty close to independently land at those numbers).


Chris/akacastor

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Another Millennium - Canada - another.tel (21:1/162)

Re: Sixels
By: AKAcastor to Nigel Reed on Thu Mar 21 2024 12:17 pm

I don't know what is the most common aspect ratio these days - IMO 4:3 aspect ratio is 'correct', but it doesn't seem like most terminals agree with me these days. SyncTerm allows you to resize the window to any aspect ratio you like, but some other software I have only been able to use in 16:9 aspect ratio as that's 'standard' today.

I only used IBM-compatible PCs when BBSing back in the 90s, and with the common monitor resolutions at the time, I feel like 4:3 should probably be the most "correct".

Besides the aspect ratio differences, I also haven't found if it's possible to specify the size a sixel should be displayed at - ie. should there be scaling applied to it.

In my experience with SyncTerm, it seems to me that sixels are not scaled. I've tried viewing sixels with various terminal sizes using SyncTerm, and if I use terminal sizes wider than 80 columns, the sixels are not re-sized to match. So if you're using a large terminal, a sixel made for 80 columns could appear small.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Re: Sixels
By: AKAcastor to Nigel Reed on Thu Mar 21 2024 12:17:54

How did they look on my system?

If I view the APOD on your system with my SyncTerm window in 4:3 aspect ratio, then the APOD image is a bit 'squished'.

Hmm. Interesting.

I don't know what is the most common aspect ratio these days - IMO 4:3 aspect ratio is 'correct', but it doesn't seem like most terminals agree with me these days. SyncTerm allows you to resize the window to any aspect ratio you like, but some other software I have only been able to use in 16:9 aspect ratio as that's 'standard' today.

Well, to throw a spanner in the works, my monitor is a wide screen curved 3440x1440 which I think has a 32:9 aspect ratio.

Also - other terminal software doesn't necessarily display sixels in the same way as SyncTerm - I think by adjusting the aspect ratio for SyncTerm 4:3 I am messing up the aspect ratio for other clients.

I think I tried it with a linux terminal, I forget which one, and it seemed to work ok.

Besides the aspect ratio differences, I also haven't found if it's possible to specify the size a sixel should be displayed at - ie. should there be scaling applied to it. When I view the sixel graphics using iTerm2 it shows up very small on my screen due to the high resolution of the Macbook display.

The problem with standards is there's so many different ones :)
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

AKAcastor around Thursday, March 21st...

I don't know what is the most common aspect ratio these days - IMO 4:3 aspect ratio is 'correct', but it doesn't seem like most terminals agree with me these days. SyncTerm allows you to resize the window to any aspect ratio you like, but some other software I have only been able to use in 16:9 aspect ratio as that's 'standard' today.

I've given this some thought, I had the same issue when i designed the "Max Headroom" demo at telnet://1984.ws, that we should display "test screen" with a cirlce and square for each aspect ratio, and prompt the user to select the one that appears the most square.

And, because font sizes also affect aspect ratio for ansi graphics, we should really make it interactive and allow the user to fine-tune, to determine they are actually 4.2:3 or 6.6:9.9 or some such. This can't help static graphics drawn by artists, but for ansi graphics generated from video keyframes like on my 1984.ws demo, they could be made to precisely match.

--- ENiGMA 1/2 v0.0.14-beta (linux; x64; 18.18.2)
* Origin: Xibalba -+- xibalba.l33t.codes:44510 (21:1/121)

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:32:34 -0400
"Warpslide" (21:3/110) <Warpslide@f110.n3.z21.fidonet> wrote:

On 19 Mar 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

I connected to your BBS to take a look, and on my first call was
greeted with a wonderful sixel graphic in your login screen.
Very nice! I reconnected a few more times and saw some of your
other login screens, I like the variety.

I wasn't really aware of this being a "thing" so I logged into
Nigel's BBS to have a look:

https://ibb.co/3mLzvNk

This is very cool! I'm going to have to play with this a bit now...

You won't get a sixel image every time. There's a mix of sixel and ansi
images for supported terminals. Non sixel type terminals will just get
the ansi login.
--
End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

Nigel Reed wrote to All <=-

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 17:32:34 -0400
"Warpslide" (21:3/110) <Warpslide@f110.n3.z21.fidonet> wrote:

On 19 Mar 2024, AKAcastor said the following...

I connected to your BBS to take a look, and on my first call was greeted with a wonderful sixel graphic in your login screen.
Very nice! I reconnected a few more times and saw some of your
other login screens, I like the variety.

I wasn't really aware of this being a "thing" so I logged into
Nigel's BBS to have a look:

https://ibb.co/3mLzvNk

This is very cool! I'm going to have to play with this a bit now...

You won't get a sixel image every time. There's a mix of sixel
and ansi images for supported terminals. Non sixel type terminals
will just get the ansi login.

Just an additional note - that behavior is if you have the "Random"
option set in the DDMatrix config file. It can be set to a specific
sixel login that will come up every time.



... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Re: Re: Sixels
By: Gamgee to Nigel Reed on Mon Mar 25 2024 14:08:00

Just an additional note - that behavior is if you have the "Random"
option set in the DDMatrix config file. It can be set to a specific
sixel login that will come up every time.

That's right.
You can also set it to just display sixel on compatible terminals but I choose not to.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (21:2/101)

Re: Re: Sixels
By: Gamgee to Nigel Reed on Mon Mar 25 2024 02:08 pm

You won't get a sixel image every time. There's a mix of sixel and ansi
images for supported terminals. Non sixel type terminals will just get
the ansi login.

Just an additional note - that behavior is if you have the "Random" option set in the DDMatrix config file. It can be set to a specific sixel login that will come up every time.

There's also a new option in the new version I released over the weekend where, when using a random themes, you can have it choose only a sixel theme for terminals that support sixels.

Nightfox
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (21:1/137)

Nigel Reed wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Sixels
By: Gamgee to Nigel Reed on Mon Mar 25 2024 14:08:00

Just an additional note - that behavior is if you have the "Random"
option set in the DDMatrix config file. It can be set to a specific
sixel login that will come up every time.

That's right.
You can also set it to just display sixel on compatible terminals
but I choose not to.

Yep, understood!



... System halted - Press all keys at once to continue.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)

Nightfox wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Sixels
By: Gamgee to Nigel Reed on Mon Mar 25 2024 02:08 pm

You won't get a sixel image every time. There's a mix of sixel and ansi
images for supported terminals. Non sixel type terminals will just get
the ansi login.

Just an additional note - that behavior is if you have the "Random" option set in the DDMatrix config file. It can be set to a specific sixel login that will come up every time.

There's also a new option in the new version I released over the
weekend where, when using a random themes, you can have it choose
only a sixel theme for terminals that support sixels.

Yes, I saw that! Great updates, thanks.



... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (21:2/138)