• Bad behaviour not wanted.

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nigel Reed on Mon Nov 7 05:17:13 2022
    I tolerate a lot of bullshit between certain parties in the echo, but wishing cancer on someone is not acceptable.

    I don't think that this guy understands how badly his actions reflect on his parents. After all, they are the ones that obviously failed to teach him elementary, human decency. And that in turn gives his grandparents a bad rep too...


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Mon Nov 7 07:52:00 2022
    Björn Felten wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    I tolerate a lot of bullshit between certain parties in the echo, but wishing cancer on someone is not acceptable.

    I don't think that this guy understands how badly his actions
    reflect on his parents. After all, they are the ones that
    obviously failed to teach him elementary, human decency. And that
    in turn gives his grandparents a bad rep too...

    Pot, meet Kettle.

    Or, perhaps "looked in the mirror lately?".



    ... Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
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  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to All on Mon Nov 7 20:49:47 2022
    On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 05:17:13 +0100
    "Bj_rn Felten" <bj_rn.felten@2:203/2> wrote:

    I tolerate a lot of bullshit between certain parties in the
    echo, but wishing cancer on someone is not acceptable.

    I don't think that this guy understands how badly his actions
    reflect on his parents. After all, they are the ones that obviously
    failed to teach him elementary, human decency. And that in turn gives
    his grandparents a bad rep too...

    I think too many people have been at this for a long time on both sides
    of the Atlantic. They all need to step down and let someone else take
    over, who are actually going to foster good relationships between zones
    and actually try to work together rather than wishing boils and warts
    on each other.

    This is bad for fidonet. The ZCs are representatives for us all.
    They're supposed to be grown adults but do not behave that way.

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see this
    before joining up with fidonet, otherwise I'm sure many wouldn't want
    to be party to such bickering. Maybe I'm just one of the "new" sysops
    who isn't used to something that's been going on for 38 years.

    Will be interesting to see if their children ever read these posts to
    see what spiteful, hurtful, hateful people their parents were.
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Nigel Reed on Mon Nov 7 23:12:50 2022
    On 07 Nov 22 20:49:47, Nigel Reed said the following to All:

    This is bad for fidonet. The ZCs are representatives for us all.
    They're supposed to be grown adults but do not behave that way.

    For the few people that flame me in public about how bad I am or not doing
    my job, privately I get double the supportive/understanding feedback.

    I actually have a good relation with the other ZC's but you won't see any of that, just singling me out for whatever I said that was somehow offensive to you. Someone who really know the context would understand. Someone who does not can and will hit the Next-key.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to All on Mon Nov 7 23:13:45 2022
    On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 23:12:50 +0000
    "Nick Andre" <nick.andre@1:229/426> wrote:

    On 07 Nov 22 20:49:47, Nigel Reed said the following to All:

    This is bad for fidonet. The ZCs are representatives for us all.
    They're supposed to be grown adults but do not behave that way.

    For the few people that flame me in public about how bad I am or not
    doing my job, privately I get double the supportive/understanding
    feedback.


    I'm sure you are otherwise you wouldn't have been elected and you
    wouldn't still be ZC.

    I actually have a good relation with the other ZC's but you won't see
    any of that, just singling me out for whatever I said that was
    somehow offensive to you. Someone who really know the context would understand. Someone who does not can and will hit the Next-key.

    I guess you've never had a close friend or relative die of cancer, see
    it draining them and every day they lose their abilities.


    Anyway, I've had my say, for what it's worth.
    --
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    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Nigel Reed on Tue Nov 8 20:59:43 2022
    Hi Nigel,

    07 Nov 2022 20:49, you wrote to All:

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see this
    before joining up with fidonet,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on several BBS web interfaces...

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Chris Jacobs to Carlos Navarro on Wed Nov 9 14:54:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    Hi Nigel,

    07 Nov 2022 20:49, you wrote to All:

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see this
    before joining up with fidonet,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on several
    BBS web interfaces...

    True. We can even write.
    Chris

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

    ... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
    --- MultiMail/Win v0.52
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nick Andre on Tue Nov 8 14:17:14 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    offensive to you. Someone who really know the context would understand.

    In this case, +100.


    ... Fatal Database Error #10070: <Sysop> late for work
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  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to All on Tue Nov 8 17:28:10 2022
    On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 20:59:43 +0100
    "Carlos Navarro" <carlos.navarro@2:341/234.1> wrote:

    Hi Nigel,

    07 Nov 2022 20:49, you wrote to All:

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see
    this before joining up with fidonet,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on
    several BBS web interfaces...

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe
    explains the dwindling node numbers then.
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nigel Reed on Tue Nov 8 20:42:00 2022
    Nigel Reed wrote to All <=-

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see
    this before joining up with fidonet,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on
    several BBS web interfaces...

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad.
    Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    It's *supposed* to be sysop-only. Unfortunately many sysops don't
    bother to properly configure their echos, and don't seem to care even
    when that is pointed out. The web interface is another way it becomes
    public, and find-able in search engines. Again, because of poor
    configuration by sysops, either through ignorance, or willful disregard.

    The web access is especially aggravating to me personally. A BBS should
    not be also a website, in my opinion. I know, many feel otherwise. To
    me it "defeats the purpose" of running a BBS. If you want to run a
    website, then run a website, not a BBS. It takes away the "privacy" of
    a traditional BBS.

    </rant>



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  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Nigel Reed on Tue Nov 8 22:03:41 2022
    On 08 Nov 22 17:28:10, Nigel Reed said the following to All:

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    The moderator of this echo also allows a non-nodelisted "probationary Sysop" to freely participate here from his system.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Tue Nov 8 22:12:25 2022
    On 08 Nov 22 20:42:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nigel Reed:

    The web access is especially aggravating to me personally. A BBS should not be also a website, in my opinion. I know, many feel otherwise. To
    me it "defeats the purpose" of running a BBS. If you want to run a website, then run a website, not a BBS. It takes away the "privacy" of
    a traditional BBS.

    If I remember correctly this started long ago with Docs Place BBS and maybe a few others that wanted a "global" BBS. I've come to accept that but for me its the Othernets getting a bit tiresome... same people, same noise, nothing new.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Nick Andre on Tue Nov 8 19:19:54 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Nigel Reed:

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    The moderator of this echo also allows a non-nodelisted "probationary Sysop" to freely participate here from his system.

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what
    has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hanging around.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

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    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Tue Nov 8 19:29:55 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Nigel Reed:

    The web access is especially aggravating to me personally. A BBS should not be also a website, in my opinion. I know, many feel otherwise. To
    me it "defeats the purpose" of running a BBS. If you want to run a website, then run a website, not a BBS. It takes away the "privacy" of
    a traditional BBS.

    What kind of "privacy" do you get on a BBS, in an echo area?

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... A dirty book is rarely dusty.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Nick Andre on Tue Nov 8 21:50:41 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Dan Clough on Tue Nov 08 2022 22:12:25

    If I remember correctly this started long ago with Docs Place BBS and maybe a few others that wanted a "global" BBS. I've come to accept that but for me its the Othernets getting a bit tiresome... same people, same noise, nothing new.

    I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on and technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The same access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through the BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet access from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my BBS.

    When I started my BBS, one of my aims was to be connected to anything and everything I could. This last month I've dropped a lot of networks. All of Gerts (Familynet, STN, Linuxnet, Gatornet, etc), Starnet and Sportsnet shut up shop as did combatnet. This is something I do agree on. There's too many othernets that don't really add any value any more. Duplicate echoes just dilute the pool.

    While I know there's a lot of history behind some of these groups and a lot pride for the creator, but sometimes you just have to let go and stop flogging a dead horse. This is what happened with Starnet and Sportsnet. I think encouraging new sysops not to partake in Gert's networks (if you can even get him to respond) would be a good start. IMHO.
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 10:34:49 2022
    I think encouraging new sysops not to partake in Gert's networks (if you can even get him to respond) would be a good start. IMHO.

    That's a good-one ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 10:42:31 2022
    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know
    what has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hanging around.

    Allen Prunty seems to be doing better these days than we he previously claimed. I even notice photos of females in his neighbourhood, he seems to be more or less OK now ...

    ... that is if his ailments were real ...

    For several, faking illnesses is a part of attracting attention, with Allen that seemed to be the case at least ... now ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 10:49:26 2022
    Hello Nigel,

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    Over the past 20 years or more we have regurgitated that subject over and over again.

    The dwindling numbers are explained by technology leaps, the non-plug-and-play of things ... An absolute moron can pick-up a device in a store and be on-line in minutes yelling and insulting people. In Fidonet it's different ... you need a certain level of IT-knowledge in order to participate and hence our yelling here and our insults are of a different category than mainstay-internet.

    We also know about the participants, it's not that anonymous. For example we know that Dan Clough has nothing to say, therefor no-one is really worried when he opens his mouth and out comes that gibberish that can be interpreted any which way one wants.

    But we also sometimes care about people ... when I don't see Janis posting I've got the urge to find out if something's wrong on her side ... A while ago Sean Dennis announced his departure. In the meantime nothing was heard anymore from him while his system continues autoposts... Is he alright? Nobody seems to have an answer ...

    You don't have that on the internet ... even the Russian propaganda in Fidonet about the Ukrainian war is totally unconvincing (true, outside Fidonet it's just the same).

    The Fidonet numbers have dwindled because the developers of old, the technology guru's, the people that developed the technology have gone to different, more attractive pastures ... Bob Hartman (Binkley) was scooped-up by Micro$oft for example, I don't know what Randy Bush is doing and Tom Jennings is cleaning toilets somewhere in California.

    We all are "us" and there's not just a single reason or single person's fault that the numbers went down. They just did and there's nothing we can do about it.

    The sexyness of Fidonet has gone, some people still try to do interesting things ... D'Bridge (of course), WinPoint, Binkd (without it, Fidonet would already be dead), Mystic, Aftershock, Rob Swindell, ...

    OK, we are down 97.5% from around 1995 ... just saying that if yelling and bad words would be a contributing factor the light would have been switched-off a long time ago ...

    Well, in the end there's always Gert ... of course.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 07:46:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    The web access is especially aggravating to me personally. A BBS should not be also a website, in my opinion. I know, many feel otherwise. To
    me it "defeats the purpose" of running a BBS. If you want to run a website, then run a website, not a BBS. It takes away the "privacy" of
    a traditional BBS.

    What kind of "privacy" do you get on a BBS, in an echo area?

    Well, "privacy" isn't exactly the right word, but more like "restricted access". It's knowing that the only people reading are the others who
    follow that echo, via a BBS. It's the difference between that and
    having ALL messages accessible to anyone via a Google web search.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 07:56:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Nick Andre <=-


    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    The moderator of this echo also allows a non-nodelisted "probationary Sysop" to freely participate here from his system.

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't
    know what has become of him but I don't think he had any
    probationary sysops hanging around.

    So..... is Beeeorn *NOT* the moderator of this echo? I know he claims
    to be the moderator of the FidoNews echo, but can't remember if he
    thinks the same of this echo.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Wed Nov 9 08:06:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    Over the past 20 years or more we have regurgitated that subject
    over and over again.

    Yup, and likely will continue to do it, until morons like your pal
    Beeeorn learn how to properly configure their systems. Or maybe until
    people like him are asked to comply by their ZC. Do your job.

    We also know about the participants, it's not that anonymous. For
    example we know that Dan Clough has nothing to say,

    Awwww, are you just generally butt-hurt about me calling out bullshit
    when I see it, or is it the more recent exchanges I've had with your pal Beeeorn that make you have to defend him?


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Wed Nov 9 08:07:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    On 08 Nov 22 19:19:54, Alan Ianson said the following to Nick
    Andre:

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know
    what
    has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hanging around.

    I've never heard of the term "probationary Sysop" until recently.

    I don't think that's even a valid term. One is either a nodelisted
    Sysop, or not.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 16:17:48 2022
    Hello Nigel,

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see
    this before joining up with fidonet,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on
    several BBS web interfaces...

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    There are sysops, and there are probationary sysops. Since both
    groups qualify as sysops, this is a sysops only group. As recognized
    by the moderator of this echo.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Pork. The One You Love.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nick Andre on Wed Nov 9 16:18:01 2022
    Hello Nick,

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad. Maybe
    explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    The moderator of this echo also allows a non-nodelisted "probationary Sysop"
    to freely participate here from his system.

    Participants own this echo. Sysops and probationary sysops alike.
    As well as moderators and moderator wannabes. And Canucks.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    What beer drinkers drink when they're not drinking beer

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 16:18:13 2022
    Hello Alan,

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad.
    Maybe
    explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    The moderator of this echo also allows a non-nodelisted "probationary
    Sysop" to freely participate here from his system.

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what
    has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hanging around.

    Yes he did.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    They say `Yes, Trump'! / We say `No, Trump!'

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Nick Andre on Wed Nov 9 09:41:48 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 08:26:29

    I was the same way when I started in late '93... early '94. Nowadays there is too much supply, not enough demand. Its tempting to drop all of them here.

    I think I have a reasonable mix now. Oh, I dropped WEN too, because more than once I found I had been unsubbed from every echo without my knowledge so screw that. I've actually started to get a few regular repeat callers, not sure if it's because I got rid of a lot of groups and now there's something for them to focus on. Suppose I should ask.
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 11:09:55 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 09:41:48, Nigel Reed said the following to Nick Andre:

    I think I have a reasonable mix now. Oh, I dropped WEN too, because more th

    Whats WEN?

    One net which I actually find interesting and somewhat amusing is SpookNet.

    Its so over the top extremely paranoid/weirdo/Costco-level tinfoil purchasing and the usual crowd isn't on there... yet. I think the ZC is very picky of
    who he signs up. The only net that asks political and religious affiliation
    in the node-app. Hardly any traffic but grabs my attention when there is.

    I was invited to join this other one Araknet which claimed to be different than others with the ZC personally verifying the "worthiness" of ones board
    but when I looked at the message content on another board that had it, it was just more of the usual Mystic/Synchronet/Linux fanboy stuff.... no thanks.

    once I found I had been unsubbed from every echo without my knowledge so s that. I've actually started to get a few regular repeat callers, not sure i it's because I got rid of a lot of groups and now there's something for the to focus on. Suppose I should ask.

    I have a few regular callers here too... telnet and the odd dialup.

    They don't care for messages except every so often the local-base... which
    is nice to see. Theres something appealing about a local message base on a BBS that doesn't echo anywhere. But they usally call in to mooch files and play Lord. Sometimes even making up fake accounts just to get more Lord turns.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 19:28:51 2022
    08 Nov 2022 20:42, you wrote to Nigel Reed:

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on
    several BBS web interfaces...

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad.
    Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    It's *supposed* to be sysop-only. Unfortunately many sysops don't
    bother to properly configure their echos, and don't seem to care even
    when that is pointed out.

    I assumed that only sysops can write but anyone can read, like in some other sysop echos (e.g. ENET.SYSOP). But I'm not sure, cannot find the echo rules...

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Wed Nov 9 13:42:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    08 Nov 2022 20:42, you wrote to Nigel Reed:

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on
    several BBS web interfaces...

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad.
    Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    It's *supposed* to be sysop-only. Unfortunately many sysops don't
    bother to properly configure their echos, and don't seem to care even
    when that is pointed out.

    I assumed that only sysops can write but anyone can read, like in
    some other sysop echos (e.g. ENET.SYSOP). But I'm not sure,
    cannot find the echo rules...

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write. I
    guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    Oh, Beeeorn..... do you hear? Can you do your job?

    Or are you only the moderator when it suits your purpose, as in
    threatening somebody?



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
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  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 21:10:49 2022
    09 Nov 2022 13:42, you wrote to me:

    I assumed that only sysops can write but anyone can read, like in
    some other sysop echos (e.g. ENET.SYSOP). But I'm not sure,
    cannot find the echo rules...

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write.

    As I said, there are also sysop echos that may be read by users.

    I guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    Yes.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Nick Andre on Wed Nov 9 14:58:01 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 11:09:55

    Its so over the top extremely paranoid/weirdo/Costco-level tinfoil purchasing and the usual crowd isn't on there... yet. I think the ZC is very picky of
    who he signs up. The only net that asks political and religious affiliation in the node-app. Hardly any traffic but grabs my attention when there is.

    I carry Spooknet and have posted a copy of times but not really got any responses. Not that I really expected anyway so I wasn't that disappointed. I generally don't read anything other than the sysop/network groups so maybe I should take a peek and see what's going on.

    I was invited to join this other one Araknet which claimed to be different than others with the ZC personally verifying the "worthiness" of ones board but when I looked at the message content on another board that had it, it was just more of the usual Mystic/Synchronet/Linux fanboy stuff.... no thanks.

    I've heard of it, sounded something like people from Arkensas would sign up for so I'd expect to see a lot of Daryl Stout and not much else. Maybe that's what you saw :)

    I have a few regular callers here too... telnet and the odd dialup.

    If only we could get more to call back, at least on a semi-regular basis. I've contemplated sending email reminders but then again, I don't want to come over all "spammy". People would come back if they wanted to, I'm sure.

    I once said that every BBS is different and someone responded "unless it's a sycnhronet BBS"...after that point, I made an effort to try and customize my board and make it look a bit different. Maybe I need more effort. Unfortunately, my art skills are terrible. I have no artistic ability at all so I have very basic stuff.

    They don't care for messages except every so often the local-base... which is nice to see. Theres something appealing about a local message base on a BBS that doesn't echo anywhere. But they usally call in to mooch files and

    I did have one guy who seemed to be active on the loacls but then he dropped off. He comes and goes. I guess life happens to people and bulletin boards aren't their first priority...silly people! :)
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 16:11:38 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 14:58:01, Nigel Reed said the following to Nick Andre:

    I carry Spooknet and have posted a copy of times but not really got any responses. Not that I really expected anyway so I wasn't that disappointed. generally don't read anything other than the sysop/network groups so maybe should take a peek and see what's going on.

    Theres maybe the odd message trickling down every so often, but interesting when it does.

    I've heard of it, sounded something like people from Arkensas would sign up for so I'd expect to see a lot of Daryl Stout and not much else. Maybe that what you saw :)

    Ha! No its not "that" kind of net... I think Arak was named after some
    computer game character or whatever.

    Atreyu

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 13:34:41 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Well, "privacy" isn't exactly the right word, but more like "restricted access". It's knowing that the only people reading are the others who follow that echo, via a BBS. It's the difference between that and
    having ALL messages accessible to anyone via a Google web search.

    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    It was that way in the early days of this area. Some will argue "freedom of speech" but of course we encourage freedom of speech and try to make that possible.

    An area for sysops to converse between themselves does not restrict anyone's freedom of speech.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... "Suicide Hotline...please hold."

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Nov 9 13:38:39 2022
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what has become of him but I don't think he had any
    probationary sysops hanging around.

    Yes he did.

    The idea of a probationary sysop is a nothing burger. You either do it or
    you don't. Nick has offered you an easy path to getting nodelisted.

    Take it or leave it.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates '81

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 13:46:49 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't
    know what has become of him but I don't think he had any
    probationary sysops hanging around.

    So..... is Beeeorn *NOT* the moderator of this echo? I know he claims
    to be the moderator of the FidoNews echo, but can't remember if he
    thinks the same of this echo.

    Not as far as I know.. unless I missed an election!

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... "Build a watch in 179 easy steps" by C. Forsberg.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 22:35:31 2022
    Dan,

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write. I guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    There is no such thing as a sysop-only echo ... the moderator may name it so, but it's meaningless.

    Way way back in time when animals still could talk I decided to keep ENET.SYSOP closed but quickly discovered that in Fidonet there will always be at least one participant who'll send it to a person whom does not qualify per the rules.

    I stopped worrying about that and accepted the reality that no echo is restricted. You have a secret to tell? Don't use echomail, send netmail ... crash.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Wed Nov 9 14:14:36 2022
    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write. I
    guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    There is no such thing as a sysop-only echo ... the moderator may name it so, but it's meaningless.

    Sure there is, it not a new concept.

    Way way back in time when animals still could talk I decided to keep ENET.SYSOP closed but quickly discovered that in Fidonet there will always be at least one participant who'll send it to a person whom does not qualify per the rules.

    This. This is the issue.

    I stopped worrying about that and accepted the reality that no echo is restricted. You have a secret to tell? Don't use echomail, send netmail ... crash.

    Yep, it's nothing to worry to much about and if you do your just hitting your head against the wall.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 15:56:55 2022
    Nigel Reed wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    All of Gerts (Familynet, STN, Linuxnet, Gatornet, etc), Starnet and Sportsnet shut up shop as did combatnet. This is something I do agree
    on. There's too many othernets that don't really add any value any
    more. Duplicate echoes just dilute the pool.

    I did not realize that Sportsnet had shut down. Thanks for the heads-up.


    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Wed Nov 9 15:59:06 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    Allen Prunty seems to be doing better these days than we he previously claimed. I even notice photos of females in his neighbourhood, he seems
    to be more or less OK now ...

    ... that is if his ailments were real ...

    For several, faking illnesses is a part of attracting attention, with Allen that seemed to be the case at least ... now ...

    I am not certain what conclusions to draw from any photos on his social
    media. He posted a couple where someone commented and Allen noted that they were several years old.



    ... What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind! - Homer S.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 16:09:00 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Carlos Navarro <=-

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write.
    I guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    Oh, Beeeorn..... do you hear? Can you do your job?

    Or are you only the moderator when it suits your purpose, as in threatening somebody?

    In echoes that others moderate, he claims there is no such thing as
    moderation and there are no rules... wait, that might be his "Lee"
    personality that does that.



    ... Goodness! That was close! I almost gave a damn.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 16:11:20 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hanging around.

    He closed up his BBS several years ago. I still see him sometimes on FB.
    He seems to be doing better than he was.


    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Thu Nov 10 01:41:52 2022
    In echoes that others moderate, he claims there is no such thing as moderation and there are no rules... wait, that might be his "Lee" personality that does that.

    You really should get your BS together. If Lee and I are one and the same (those of you who think so must be really bad at English), then he *is* a sysop, and then you have nothing to complain about... wait, that would make you seem even more stupid.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 08:26:29 2022
    On 08 Nov 22 21:50:41, Nigel Reed said the following to Nick Andre:

    When I started my BBS, one of my aims was to be connected to anything and everything I could. This last month I've dropped a lot of networks. All of Gerts (Familynet, STN, Linuxnet, Gatornet, etc), Starnet and Sportsnet shut shop as did combatnet. This is something I do agree on. There's too many

    I was the same way when I started in late '93... early '94. Nowadays there is too much supply, not enough demand. Its tempting to drop all of them here.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 08:32:38 2022
    On 08 Nov 22 19:19:54, Alan Ianson said the following to Nick Andre:

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hanging around.

    I've never heard of the term "probationary Sysop" until recently.

    Mixed feelings about Allen, was nice to me but he tried shoving down my throat about running some weird central Hub system and was always going to be around, reliable, etc etc till one day he just pulled a Frank...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Nov 9 06:18:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    The sexyness of Fidonet has gone, some people still try to do
    interesting things ... D'Bridge (of course), WinPoint, Binkd (without
    it, Fidonet would already be dead), Mystic, Aftershock, Rob Swindell,
    ...

    Fidonet's been many things to many people, but sexy?


    ... It is simply a matter of work
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Kurt Weiske on Wed Nov 9 09:49:12 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 06:18:00, Kurt Weiske said the following to Ward Dossche:

    The sexyness of Fidonet has gone, some people still try to do interesting things ... D'Bridge (of course), WinPoint, Binkd (without it, Fidonet would already be dead), Mystic, Aftershock, Rob Swindell, ...

    Fidonet's been many things to many people, but sexy?

    We have a swedish masturbatory sock-puppet pretending to be cajun... and the effminate dutch whining over a silly text file meant for machine usage.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Nov 9 10:28:20 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 16:18:01, Lee Lofaso said the following to Nick Andre:

    Participants own this echo. Sysops and probationary sysops alike.
    As well as moderators and moderator wannabes. And Canucks.

    The troll says what?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 01:56:22 2022
    If only we could get more to call back, at least on a semi-regular
    basis. I've contemplated sending email reminders but then again, I don't want to come over all "spammy". People would come back if they wanted
    to, I'm sure.

    The "secret" is to have a user friendly, easily accessible BBS. Plus of course get certain people to stop being a-holes...

    I don't have any problems, here's some stats for last month's visits (I'm not included). About average for one month:

    Summary of JamNNTPd logfile jamnntpd.log

    First entry: 11-Oct-22 01:02:06
    Last entry: 10-Nov-22 01:44:16

    Total number of users: 40
    Total connection time: 30d 16h 38m 12s in 4004 connections
    Total posted messages: 208


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Wed Nov 9 18:43:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write.
    I guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    Oh, Beeeorn..... do you hear? Can you do your job?

    Or are you only the moderator when it suits your purpose, as in threatening somebody?

    In echoes that others moderate, he claims there is no such thing
    as moderation and there are no rules... wait, that might be his
    "Lee" personality that does that.

    Haha, yeah I think that's right about the "Lee" troll. It is difficult sometimes to tell them apart. Beeeorn is not as good at disguising
    things as he thinks he is.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 18:46:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Well, "privacy" isn't exactly the right word, but more like "restricted access". It's knowing that the only people reading are the others who follow that echo, via a BBS. It's the difference between that and
    having ALL messages accessible to anyone via a Google web search.

    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    Wow, that's unexpected, coming from you. But good; thanks.

    It was that way in the early days of this area. Some will argue
    "freedom of speech" but of course we encourage freedom of speech
    and try to make that possible.

    An area for sysops to converse between themselves does not
    restrict anyone's freedom of speech.

    Absolutely correct.


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Wed Nov 9 18:51:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write. I guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    There is no such thing as a sysop-only echo ... the moderator may
    name it so, but it's meaningless.

    It doesn't have to be that way. All it takes is proper configuration by sysops, and reasonable enforcement.

    Way way back in time when animals still could talk I decided to
    keep ENET.SYSOP closed but quickly discovered that in Fidonet
    there will always be at least one participant who'll send it to a
    person whom does not qualify per the rules.

    Sure, that's a possibility, but it doesn't mean you/we can't try. It
    would come very close to keeping it "sysop-only".

    I stopped worrying about that and accepted the reality that no
    echo is restricted. You have a secret to tell? Don't use
    echomail, send netmail ... crash.

    I realize that, and point out that it's got NOTHING to do with secrets.
    There are just some times when it might be good for sysops (only) to
    discuss issues related to BBSing / echos / whatever. What's the harm in
    that?



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Björn Felten on Wed Nov 9 19:07:13 2022
    Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Björn Felten to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 2022 01:56:22

    Summary of JamNNTPd logfile jamnntpd.log

    Somewould say JamNNTPd is as bad as web access to a BBS :)
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 10 05:22:34 2022
    Hello Nick,

    Participants own this echo. Sysops and probationary sysops alike.
    As well as moderators and moderator wannabes. And Canucks.

    The troll says what?

    GET SOME HEARING AIDS.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Lock him up!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Chris Jacobs on Thu Nov 10 05:22:43 2022
    Hello Chris,

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see this
    before joining up with fidonet,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on several
    BBS web interfaces...

    True. We can even write.

    Yes. I know.

    For Life,
    Loose Flea

    --
    What can brown do for you?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Nov 10 05:23:13 2022
    Hello Carlos,

    Anyone can. In fact you can even read this echo anonymously on
    several BBS web interfaces...

    Huh, I thought this was a sysop only group. If it's not, my bad.
    Maybe explains the dwindling node numbers then.

    It's *supposed* to be sysop-only. Unfortunately many sysops don't
    bother to properly configure their echos, and don't seem to care even
    when that is pointed out.

    I assumed that only sysops can write but anyone can read, like in some other
    sysop echos (e.g. ENET.SYSOP).

    All participants in this echo have the ability to both read and write.
    So why should participants in other echos not be able to do so?

    But I'm not sure, cannot find the echo rules...

    Rules? There are rules?

    Nah.

    Must be a figment of somebody's wild and overactive imagination ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Thu Nov 10 05:23:20 2022
    Hello Alan,

    Well, "privacy" isn't exactly the right word, but more like "restricted
    access". It's knowing that the only people reading are the others who
    follow that echo, via a BBS. It's the difference between that and
    having ALL messages accessible to anyone via a Google web search.

    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    Why? Do you have something to hide?
    Do other sysops have something to hide?
    Does any participant have something to hide?
    I certainly have nothing to hide.
    So please do not let that stop you.

    It was that way in the early days of this area.

    It was wrong then, and it would be wrong now. Putin loves his Russia
    just the way it is. Why would he want to open up his autocracy to
    those who are not part of his inner circle of friends? Is that what
    Fidonet sysops want to become? A group of thugs who can impose their
    own will on anybody or individual of their choice?

    This is supposed to be an area with no geographical boundaries.
    No zones or any fake lines drawn across the sand. There should also
    be no restrictions imposed on participants, both current and future.

    Some will argue "freedom of speech" but of course we encourage freedom of speech and try to make that possible.

    There should never be any form of censorship in Fidonet.
    Participants should always be free and welcome to present
    their own views to the world [Fidonet community] in the
    way/manner they want.

    An area for sysops to converse between themselves does not restrict anyone's
    freedom of speech.

    Echomail is just a different flavor of netmail.
    The only "rule" to become a sysop is to demonstrate
    the ability to send and receive netmail.

    All of us in this echo have demonstrated that ability.

    Therefore, all participants in this echo hsve passed the
    test and are hereby certified as Fidonet sysops.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If it doesn't say Jiffy Lube, it's not Jiffy Lube

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Thu Nov 10 05:23:29 2022
    Hello Alan,

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't
    know what has become of him but I don't think he had any
    probationary sysops hanging around.

    Yes he did.

    The idea of a probationary sysop is a nothing burger.

    All participants are either a sysop, or a potential sysop.
    I find the term probationary sysop to be clearer, as all participants
    should be welcomed even if they are not full-fledged sysops in actual
    practice.

    You either do it or you don't.

    There is no timetable as to when a participant must decide when,
    if ever, to become a full-fledged sysop.

    Nick has offered you an easy path to getting nodelisted.

    The only "rule" or "test" that I am aware of is to demonstrate the
    ability to send and receive netmail. There is no deadline to do so.

    Take it or leave it.

    Would you like me to send you a netmail?
    I can do that.
    Would you like me to read a netmail you send me?
    I can do that, too.

    Would that qualify me as being a Fidonet sysop?

    According to the "rules" it would.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    What can brown do for you?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Nov 9 21:03:22 2022
    The idea of a probationary sysop is a nothing burger.

    All participants are either a sysop, or a potential sysop.

    Sure, everyone has the potential.

    I find the term probationary sysop to be clearer, as all participants
    should be welcomed even if they are not full-fledged sysops in actual practice.

    True, all participants are welcome. Not all participants are or need to be sysops. If you are happy being a user on someones system then you are good. That is the reason people (sysops) put systems together.

    You either do it or you don't.

    There is no timetable as to when a participant must decide when,
    if ever, to become a full-fledged sysop.

    Also true, and if you are happy as it is there is no reason for you to setup your own system. You can setup your own system or not accoring to your own needs or wishes.

    Nick has offered you an easy path to getting nodelisted.

    The only "rule" or "test" that I am aware of is to demonstrate the
    ability to send and receive netmail. There is no deadline to do so.

    In order to be nodelisted you have to demonstrate your ability to send and receive netmail on your node. You have not done that and you don't need to unless/until you want to do that.

    Take it or leave it.

    Would you like me to send you a netmail?
    I can do that.
    Would you like me to read a netmail you send me?
    I can do that, too.

    Would that qualify me as being a Fidonet sysop?

    Sure, we could exchange netmail but that does not qualify as being a sysop. When and if you ever setup a node then you will be a sysop.

    There is no qualification. I'm sure you could do that if you wanted to after reading up on the docs and experimenting a bit.

    Just so you know it's not a great honour to be a sysop.

    According to the "rules" it would.

    I'm not sure what "rules" you are refering to.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Nov 9 23:39:11 2022
    On 10 Nov 22 05:22:34, Lee Lofaso said the following to Nick Andre:

    The troll says what?

    GET SOME HEARING AIDS.

    The troll says what?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 9 23:59:42 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 13:38:39, Alan Ianson said the following to Lee Lofaso:

    The idea of a probationary sysop is a nothing burger. You either do it or you don't. Nick has offered you an easy path to getting nodelisted.

    I've politely offered at least a few times almost to the point of hand holding. Each time refused with the probation nonsense or he can't get a mailer working... really... but mention P4 and he's all mister chatty. Look how much effort goes into his reply to you about the Echomail stuff.

    This and a few other reasons have convinced me he Was never real, just a cock puppet alternate personality.

    The time he was challenged to prove he understood what a BBS was by logging
    in to a board, he didn't... he just posted a message from another stupid NNTP site in Finland. He's never called any other board. Ever.

    When Felten eventually makes his grand-departure, that personality will
    vanish. Even if by some chance he's real, nobody will give that moron a forum... not even my favourite trolls Oli (Olivia) or Jas Hud (Mr. Professor).

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alan Ianson on Thu Nov 10 00:00:07 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 13:46:49, Alan Ianson said the following to Dan Clough:

    So..... is Beeeorn *NOT* the moderator of this echo? I know he claims
    to be the moderator of the FidoNews echo, but can't remember if he
    thinks the same of this echo.

    Not as far as I know.. unless I missed an election!

    Doesn't matter, he can't moderate jack-shit.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mike Powell on Thu Nov 10 00:01:35 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 15:56:55, Mike Powell said the following to Nigel Reed:

    I did not realize that Sportsnet had shut down. Thanks for the heads-up.

    Its been down for at least several years? Bill McG had some sort of electrical problem that torched his Synchronet system and last I heard he was trying to bring it back online.

    That was ..... 2016 I think.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 00:03:58 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 19:07:13, Nigel Reed said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    Summary of JamNNTPd logfile jamnntpd.log

    Somewould say JamNNTPd is as bad as web access to a BBS :)

    Some would say JamNNTP is not even a BBS...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 06:55:37 2022
    Somewould say JamNNTPd is as bad as web access to a BBS :)

    I know. Those "some" have not tried it. It's written by an old FTN developer, so it's totally unlike the old NNTP servers, that those "some" probably *think* it is.

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 10 12:24:23 2022
    Its been down for at least several years? Bill McG had some sort of electrical
    problem that torched his Synchronet system and last I heard he was trying to bring it back online.

    That was ..... 2016 I think.

    Bill's on Facebook and told me he gave up a long time ago..

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 13:44:13 2022
    Hello Nigel,

    Summary of JamNNTPd logfile jamnntpd.log

    Somewould say JamNNTPd is as bad as web access to a BBS :)

    Why?

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Kurt Weiske on Thu Nov 10 13:12:13 2022
    On 10 Nov 22 07:11:00, Kurt Weiske said the following to John Dovey:

    Therefore, all participants in this echo hsve passed the
    test and are hereby certified as Fidonet sysops.

    NO.

    I'd love to be able to add "Fidonet Sysop Certification" to my resume. Is there a test?

    I've listed Fido as a skill on my resume... and not a probation status either.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Kurt Weiske on Fri Nov 11 00:54:22 2022
    I'd love to be able to add "Fidonet Sysop Certification" to my resume. Is there a test?

    Yes.

    You need to get into a lengthy on-line discussion with Benny and tell us what you think he said ... nobody really has ever managed that.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 15:30:55 2022
    Nigel Reed wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    I did have one guy who seemed to be active on the loacls but then he dropped off. He comes and goes. I guess life happens to people and bulletin boards aren't their first priority...silly people! :) ---

    I had one that would post in the locals and also several echoes regularly.
    I think COVID may have got him as he disappeared suddenly about a year ago
    and no longer responds to emails. He had been a user on one of my boards
    for 20+ years.



    ... Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Nov 10 06:55:00 2022
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    There are sysops, and there are probationary sysops. Since both
    groups qualify as sysops, this is a sysops only group. As recognized
    by the moderator of this echo.

    Are you just making this up as you go along?


    ... If it isn't broken, I can fix it.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Nov 10 06:56:00 2022
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Participants own this echo. Sysops and probationary sysops alike.
    As well as moderators and moderator wannabes. And Canucks.

    Or, those who self-identify as sysops?

    My wife is sysop-adjacent, does she count?


    ... If it isn't broken, I can fix it.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 06:57:00 2022
    Nigel Reed wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    I've actually started to get a few regular repeat callers

    I should have a new user raffle - a USR Courier to be raffled off every
    month!




    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to John Dovey on Thu Nov 10 07:11:00 2022
    John Dovey wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

    Therefore, all participants in this echo hsve passed the
    test and are hereby certified as Fidonet sysops.

    NO.

    I'd love to be able to add "Fidonet Sysop Certification" to my resume. Is there a test?


    ... Powered By Celeron (Tualatin). Engineered for the future.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Mike Powell on Thu Nov 10 20:47:33 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Mike Powell to Nigel Reed on Thu Nov 10 2022 15:30:55

    I had one that would post in the locals and also several echoes regularly.
    I think COVID may have got him as he disappeared suddenly about a year ago and no longer responds to emails. He had been a user on one of my boards for 20+ years.

    If they happened to leave a real name or email address you may be able to track them down and find an obit if they croaked, if you're that bothered.
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nigel Reed on Fri Nov 11 13:14:35 2022
    Nigel Reed wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I had one that would post in the locals and also several echoes regularly.
    I think COVID may have got him as he disappeared suddenly about a year ago and no longer responds to emails. He had been a user on one of my boards for 20+ years.

    If they happened to leave a real name or email address you may be able
    to track them down and find an obit if they croaked, if you're that bothered. --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux

    I did try that and didn't find anything.



    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Bjrn Felten on Sat Nov 12 11:02:52 2022
    El 10/11/2022 a las 6:55, Björn Felten -> Nigel Reed escribió:
     NR>> Somewould say JamNNTPd is as bad as web access to a BBS :)

       I know. Those "some" have not tried it. It's written by an old FTN developer, so it's totally unlike the old NNTP servers, that those
    "some" probably *think* it is.


    I started testing it recently. It's a very interesting option.

    Carlos

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
    * Origin: cyb nntp (2:341/234.1)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 12 08:12:00 2022
    Hello Nick!

    ** On Thursday 10.11.22 - 00:03, you wrote to Nigel Reed:

    Somewould say JamNNTPd is as bad as web access to a BBS :)

    Some would say JamNNTP is not even a BBS...

    Some would say that even TODAY's BBSes are not even BBSes. ;)

    What was a BBS of days gone yore? Originally, it was a place
    where one dialed-in to READ a "bulletin" or an announcement.
    Hence, the name - BBS.

    Posting personal messages does not a BBS make.

    Games does not a BBS make.

    Messages and games came along much later to such systems.

    So.. BBSes today are much more different than they were
    originally. So, perhaps they shouldn't be called a BBS at all.

    Just the minimalist "Board" could be more representive.

    Meanwhile, to cling to BBS = bulletins, messages, networked
    systems, games ..is a misnomer.

    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.
    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Sat Nov 12 14:52:21 2022
    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...

    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Ward Dossche on Sat Nov 12 21:21:23 2022
    On 12.11.2022 14:52, Ward Dossche wrote:

    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...

    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    One might ask where is the limit of native fidonet messages and gated messages...

    Jam(Smapi)NNTPd is just an ftn editor over nntp protocol, it reads and writes JAM/Squish/OPUS message base as any traditional ftn msg editor or bbs software.

    If I get it right, Telegram BBS of Stas is a gateway from fidonet to telegram and vice versa.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:5.0) Aura/20220608 Interlink/52.9.8194
    * Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 12 21:23:24 2022
    On 10.11.2022 1:59, Nick Andre wrote:

    The time he was challenged to prove he understood what a BBS was by logging in to a board, he didn't... he just posted a message from another stupid NNTP site in Finland.

    How many stupid NNTP sites there are in Finland? I don't know any.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:5.0) Aura/20220608 Interlink/52.9.8194
    * Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Ward Dossche on Sat Nov 12 22:50:00 2022
    Hello Ward!

    OK, we are down 97.5% from around 1995 ... just saying
    that if yelling and bad words would be a contributing
    factor the light would have been switched-off a long time
    ago ...

    Up to 1995 there really wasn't any other place to do the
    yelling and bad words; dialup boards were mainly the only
    available places to be.

    But then the internet emerged as the new tech and that peaked
    curiosities and new opportinities where to cast the yelling and
    bad words. :D And THAT migration happened fast!


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 13 09:00:15 2022
    12 Nov 2022 14:52, you wrote to August Abolins:

    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...

    Also web interfaces like those of BBBS and Synchronet... (and a few others in Eastern Europe)

    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    Yes, Fidonet is much more than just BBSing... has been for a long time.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Alan Ianson on Sun Nov 13 09:06:40 2022
    09 Nov 2022 13:34, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    Well, "privacy" isn't exactly the right word, but more like
    "restricted access". It's knowing that the only people reading
    are the others who follow that echo, via a BBS. It's the
    difference between that and having ALL messages accessible to
    anyone via a Google web search.

    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    For writing? Or also for reading?

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 13 09:41:44 2022
    09 Nov 2022 22:35, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    There is no such thing as a sysop-only echo ... the moderator may name
    it so, but it's meaningless.

    I think that it can only (more or less) work at region- or net-level, with a relatively small number of systems. (I mean for both reading and writing)

    Way way back in time when animals still could talk I decided to keep ENET.SYSOP closed but quickly discovered that in Fidonet there will
    always be at least one participant who'll send it to a person whom
    does not qualify per the rules.

    When was that?

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Sun Nov 13 11:31:22 2022
    August,

    And THAT migration happened fast!

    When you looked at the graphs from those days, the decline was as steep as the growth used to be some years before. A near-perfect curve ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Nov 13 11:47:04 2022
    Carlos,

    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    For writing? Or also for reading?

    And how would you prevent the reading for non-nodelisted sysops?

    I gave up on that a long time ago. If you write something in echomail, it's into the wild and you have no khontrol, even routed metmail. You still have the idiots that love to read everything in-transit...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Nov 13 11:48:18 2022
    Way way back in time when animals still could talk I decided to keep CN>WD> ENET.SYSOP closed but quickly discovered that in Fidonet there will CN>WD> always be at least one participant who'll send it to a person whom CN>WD> does not qualify per the rules.

    When was that?

    Somewhere the mid-90-ies, after I became ZC.

    ENET.SYSOP was absolutely restricted, but how do you restrict an echo-conference with a theoretical membership of around 8.000 sysops...

    We sometimes discussed restricted matters "which no-one else was supposed to know" but during the R24-schism certain R24-nodes used to funnel it to Z1-nodes (who were not supposed to have access) as a kind of payment for echo- and file-services. It was also a way to show how tough they were by going against a ZC who was considered to ber almighty in those days.

    Early on I figured it was impossible to restrict "reading" that's when I started with restricted "writing" for ZCs only, the IC and invited guests. Becoming an invited guest never was a big deal, one merely needed to ask and I hardly ever saw anyone abuse that.

    Sone people keep thinking it is possible to restrict the reading of echoes, but that is nonsense. Carefully guarded secrets such as Z1C and Z1_ELECTION can be freely read on bulletin boards to start with ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Nov 13 08:27:12 2022
    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    For writing? Or also for reading?

    For reading and writing.

    This area is for sysop's to discuss between themselves whatever it might be that thay want to discuss.

    I'm not sure where this read only idea comes from but when this area was created all those years ago it was setup that way.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 13 08:33:18 2022
    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    For writing? Or also for reading?

    And how would you prevent the reading for non-nodelisted sysops?

    It needs to be setup that way. It is setup that way here. I have a web interface that anyone can read (and write, if they log in) but this area and a couple others don't show up there.

    I gave up on that a long time ago. If you write something in echomail, it's into the wild and you have no khontrol, even routed metmail. You still have the idiots that love to read everything in-transit...

    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what they want to discuss with other sysops.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Nov 13 18:18:32 2022
    Hello Tommi,

    The time he was challenged to prove he understood what a BBS was by logging
    in to a board, he didn't... he just posted a message from another stupid
    NNTP site in Finland.

    How many stupid NNTP sites there are in Finland? I don't know any.

    Me neither.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If we don't get it / Shut it down!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Nigel Reed on Sun Nov 13 18:18:57 2022
    Hello NIgel,

    If they happened to leave a real name or email address you may be able to track them down and find an obit if they croaked, if you're that bothered.

    Doesn't anybody have a clue?

    The ASCII values of my name add up to 666.

    So please, give the Devil his due.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Sun Nov 13 18:10:01 2022
    Alan,

    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what they want to discuss with other sysops.

    It's a BBS thing ... I run a node and an editor, sysops can link in if they so desire...

    Not wanting to mention zones but BBS-ing is not core anymore to operations here. One time I had one and then I lost interest, it was just more of what was already available elsewhere.

    How's the snow?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 13 10:26:24 2022
    Alan,

    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what
    they want to discuss with other sysops.

    It's a BBS thing ... I run a node and an editor, sysops can link in if they so desire...

    True, on a BBS you need to set permissions. If you are operating a node there is no need.

    Not wanting to mention zones but BBS-ing is not core anymore to operations here. One time I had one and then I lost interest, it was just more of what was already available elsewhere.

    It's not here either, it's an old habbit.. ;)

    How's the snow?

    It beautiful, but a little chilly. A good time to stay indoors and read mail.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Ward Dossche on Sun Nov 13 18:50:32 2022
    13 Nov 2022 11:48, you wrote to me:

    When was that?

    Somewhere the mid-90-ies, after I became ZC.

    ENET.SYSOP was absolutely restricted, but how do you restrict an echo-conference with a theoretical membership of around 8.000
    sysops...

    If my memory serves me correctly it was available on a read-only basis, at least for zone-2 points, in the early 90s.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Nov 13 19:36:43 2022
    Hello Carlos,

    On Sunday November 13 2022 18:50, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    If my memory serves me correctly it was available on a read-only
    basis, at least for zone-2 points, in the early 90s.

    That matches my memory. Under Ron Dwight, it was available for read by Z2 points. Getting write access as an ivited guest was not all that hard. All you had to do was figure out all by yourself that you just had to ask nicely. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Alan Ianson on Sun Nov 13 21:01:07 2022
    13 Nov 2022 08:27, you wrote to me:

    I can agree with that. This area should be restricted to sysops.

    For writing? Or also for reading?

    For reading and writing.

    This area is for sysop's to discuss between themselves whatever it
    might be that thay want to discuss.

    Indeed. But it can be a "sysop echo" or a "sysop only echo" depending on its rules...

    I'm not sure where this read only idea comes from but when this area
    was created all those years ago it was setup that way.

    Perhaps that was FIDO_SYSOP? (Just asking, I don't really know.)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Carlos Navarro on Sun Nov 13 12:58:20 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    This area is for sysop's to discuss between themselves whatever it
    might be that thay want to discuss.

    Indeed. But it can be a "sysop echo" or a "sysop only echo" depending
    on its rules...

    Yep, this area is (or was) sysop only.

    I'm not sure where this read only idea comes from but when this area
    was created all those years ago it was setup that way.

    Perhaps that was FIDO_SYSOP? (Just asking, I don't really know.)

    This is the original sysop echo. FIDO_SYSOP came a little later.

    FIDO_SYSOP was created by a russian node and was private distribution in
    it's easrly days.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    ... It's easier to get forgiveness than permission

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Mon Nov 14 16:19:12 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    And how would you prevent the reading for non-nodelisted sysops?

    It needs to be setup that way. It is setup that way here. I have a web interface that anyone can read (and write, if they log in) but this
    area and a couple others don't show up there.

    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what they want to discuss with other sysops.

    Agreed. Someone will say "but netmail," but that is not practical for
    reaching a number of sysops at one time to discuss an issue between
    multiple sysops.



    ... Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 15 04:11:22 2022
    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what they want to discuss with other sysops.

    In a way I agree with you. It's not good to show our BBS users how despicably bad some sysops act on a regular basis. But then again, it's just as bad in the open echoes, only there you usually don't know who are sysops.

    Some returnees here on my BBS have left again, saying "I thought it was bad when I left, now it's been getting even worse".

    The subject line still is very relevant...


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Nov 15 07:34:57 2022
    13 Nov 2022 19:36, you wrote to me:

    If my memory serves me correctly it was available on a read-only
    basis, at least for zone-2 points, in the early 90s.

    That matches my memory. Under Ron Dwight, it was available for read by
    Z2 points.

    I have a poor memory but I remember that my boss was a bit reluctant at first, when I asked him for a link to ENET.SYSOP :-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue Nov 15 01:32:04 2022
    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what
    they want to discuss with other sysops.

    In a way I agree with you. It's not good to show our BBS users how
    despicably bad some sysops act on a regular basis. But then again, it's just as bad in the open echoes, only there you usually don't know who are sysops.

    What despicably bad sysops?

    You are right, you should not show BBS users the sysop areas.

    Some returnees here on my BBS have left again, saying "I thought it was bad when I left, now it's been getting even worse".

    What returnees?

    The subject line still is very relevant...

    So it is.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Nov 15 11:28:08 2022
    Hello Carlos,

    On Tuesday November 15 2022 07:34, you wrote to me:

    That matches my memory. Under Ron Dwight, it was available for
    read by Z2 points.

    I have a poor memory but I remember that my boss was a bit reluctant
    at first, when I asked him for a link to ENET.SYSOP :-)

    I did not have to ask mine, I could simply areafix it. ;-)


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 15 12:45:56 2022
    What despicably bad sysops?

    Seriously? Did you miss all of it? Like wishing cancer and even death upon another sysop and all the other insults after it was pointed out that we suddenly had a duplicate net in our nodelist?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 15 15:11:46 2022
    13 Nov 2022 12:58, you wrote to me:

    Indeed. But it can be a "sysop echo" or a "sysop only echo"
    depending on its rules...

    Yep, this area is (or was) sysop only.

    The most recent rules I've found were posted by Bj÷rn in 2016. It's not clear to me if read access was restricted to sysops only.

    I'm not sure where this read only idea comes from but when this
    area was created all those years ago it was setup that way.

    Perhaps that was FIDO_SYSOP? (Just asking, I don't really know.)

    This is the original sysop echo. FIDO_SYSOP came a little later.

    Ah yes, I found FN_SYSOP in an areafix list from an uplink I had, dated 1995. I think I didn't have it linked (at least for long), I guess it had too much traffic for me back then...

    BTW there was also SYSOP ...

    FIDO_SYSOP was created by a russian node and was private distribution
    in it's easrly days.

    Interesting :-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Alan Ianson on Tue Nov 15 15:12:27 2022
    13 Nov 2022 10:26, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    It's a BBS thing ... I run a node and an editor, sysops can link in
    if they so desire...

    True, on a BBS you need to set permissions. If you are operating a
    node there is no need.

    Yes, if you have points. ;-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Nov 15 15:18:27 2022
    15 Nov 2022 11:28, you wrote to me:

    I have a poor memory but I remember that my boss was a bit
    reluctant at first, when I asked him for a link to ENET.SYSOP :-)

    I did not have to ask mine, I could simply areafix it. ;-)

    I suppose that mine had it in a separate, sysop-only group in his tosser. :-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to BjöRn Felten on Tue Nov 15 12:01:49 2022
    On 15 Nov 22 12:45:56, Bj*Rn Felten said the following to Alan Ianson:

    Seriously? Did you miss all of it? Like wishing cancer and even death up another sysop and all the other insults after it was pointed out that we suddenly had a duplicate net in our nodelist?

    LOL absolutely hilarious... when one considers 20+ years of anti-American rhetoric directed this way and your wonderful remarks after the passings of Ben Ritchey and your alter-ego musings about Roger Nelson.

    All of which you were roundly flamed over, but you proudly showed off your free pass at the time with your "free speech system", if we don't like it
    we were to hit the Next key.... etc etc

    So I really love your recent effeminate whining in the IC echo over Net 229. Nothing will ever happen except your eventual grand-departure. Until that lovely day happens, natural causes or not (preferably the latter) may the pot offer some Military Industrial Complex Sitcom Canned Laughter for the kettle?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Tue Nov 15 12:47:00 2022
    Björn Felten wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    What despicably bad sysops?

    Seriously? Did you miss all of it? Like wishing cancer and
    even death upon another sysop and all the other insults after it
    was pointed out that we suddenly had a duplicate net in our
    nodelist?

    You'll be OK, Karen. Go lay down for a bit.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to All on Wed Nov 16 14:58:06 2022
    On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 14:52:21 +0200
    "Ward Dossche" <ward.dossche@2:292/854> wrote:

    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...
    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    I was against Telegram integration to start with and I still can't say
    I'm happy with it, but then again, I don't use the echoes that are
    connected to it, so in the end it really doesn't matter.
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wed Nov 16 19:15:16 2022
    What despicably bad sysops?

    Seriously? Did you miss all of it? Like wishing cancer and even death upon another sysop and all the other insults after it was pointed out that we suddenly had a duplicate net in our nodelist?

    No, I didn't miss that but that is not what we are talking about.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Carlos Navarro on Wed Nov 16 19:22:08 2022
    This is the original sysop echo. FIDO_SYSOP came a little later.

    Ah yes, I found FN_SYSOP in an areafix list from an uplink I had, dated
    1995. I think I didn't have it linked (at least for long), I guess it had
    too much traffic for me back then...

    Back in those days I linked the echo but it was busy with nothing very constuctive. I didn't participate.

    BTW there was also SYSOP ...

    Yes, I still have the area here although I don't know when that one was created or by who or what the rules were. It's not very active.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Carlos Navarro on Wed Nov 16 19:22:44 2022
    True, on a BBS you need to set permissions. If you are operating a
    node there is no need.

    Yes, if you have points. ;-)

    Yes, I hope so anyway.. ;)

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 16 21:37:00 2022
    Nigel Reed wrote to All <=-

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...
    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    I was against Telegram integration to start with and I still
    can't say I'm happy with it, but then again, I don't use the
    echoes that are connected to it, so in the end it really doesn't
    matter.

    I kind of half-watch an echo with Telegram participants, and it's a
    complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general stupidity.


    ... Sometimes you get the elevator, and sometimes you get the shaft.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 17 08:45:00 2022
    complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
    due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
    stupidity.

    You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
    complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
    Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
    since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to August Abolins on Thu Nov 17 07:54:00 2022
    August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
    due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
    stupidity.

    You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
    complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
    Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
    since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's
    that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and
    basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software /
    message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
    at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple,
    simpleton.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 17 09:23:00 2022
    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,...

    Noted.

    ..the end result is: The echo is trashed..

    All the posts from YOUR system don't even use the "traditional"
    quoting with the intials. Why not try to conform to the
    "tradition" that you speak of yourself.



    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1234 to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 17 17:06:40 2022
    17 nov 2022 07:54, Dan Clough -> August Abolins

    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,

    AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg, echomail in Squish format.

    So it's sort of "traditional"...

    Carlos

    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
    * Origin: cybShock (2:341/234.1234)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to August Abolins on Thu Nov 17 10:29:00 2022
    August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,...

    Noted.

    ..the end result is: The echo is trashed..

    All the posts from YOUR system don't even use the "traditional"
    quoting with the intials. Why not try to conform to the
    "tradition" that you speak of yourself.

    Baloney. I just looked at my message that you replied to here, and it's perfectly formatted with your initials before what you said, and my
    initials before what I said.

    I guess your mobile garbage is more broken then previously thought.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Nov 17 10:30:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    17 nov 2022 07:54, Dan Clough -> August Abolins

    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,

    AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates
    mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg,
    echomail in Squish format.

    So it's sort of "traditional"...

    Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.



    ... Daddy, what does "now formatting drive C:" mean?
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1234 to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 17 17:47:54 2022
    17 nov 2022 10:30, Dan Clough -> Carlos Navarro

    AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates
    mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg,
    echomail in Squish format.

    So it's sort of "traditional"...

    Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.

    Please give me some example, to check what you mean. Echo and MSGID or datetime of message...

    Carlos

    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
    * Origin: cybShock (2:341/234.1234)
  • From august abolins@2:221/1.59 to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 17 11:53:22 2022

    Baloney. I just looked at my message that you replied to here, and it's ..

    You need to study ALL the messages originating from you system. RF's quoted messages do not bear any initials at all, for example.

    I guess your mobile garbage is more broken then previously thought.

    Your system seems to reveal its own issues.


    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
    * Origin: Mobile Pix (2:221/1.59)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Nov 17 18:35:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates
    mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg,
    echomail in Squish format.

    So it's sort of "traditional"...

    Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.

    Please give me some example, to check what you mean. Echo and
    MSGID or datetime of message...

    The Fidonet "RPG Literature" echo is the only place that I see frequent
    use of Aftershock/Telegram. Nearly any message in there is a good
    example.



    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to august abolins on Thu Nov 17 18:39:00 2022
    august abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Baloney. I just looked at my message that you replied to here, and it's
    ..

    You need to study ALL the messages originating from you system.

    No, I don't. The *ONLY* echo where I see this garbage is the RPG Lit
    one, where most users seem to be using the broken software.

    RF's quoted messages do not bear any initials at all, for
    example.

    If that's the case it's because they weren't there when they arrived
    (several layers/indents deep).

    I guess your mobile garbage is more broken then previously thought.

    Your system seems to reveal its own issues.

    The issue is not with my system. The *ONLY* place that I consistently
    notice the formatting garbage is where you mobile users are posting.



    ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dan Clough on Thu Nov 17 20:02:00 2022
    The issue is not with my system. ...

    Yes it is. I told you to look at RF's messages. They originate
    from your system.

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Dan Clough on Fri Nov 18 14:45:11 2022
    17 Nov 2022 18:35, you wrote to me:

    Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.

    Please give me some example, to check what you mean. Echo and
    MSGID or datetime of message...

    The Fidonet "RPG Literature" echo is the only place that I see
    frequent use of Aftershock/Telegram. Nearly any message in there is a good example.

    After a quick glance at LITRPG the only messages with bad quotes I find are some from John Dovey, replies to you or to Richard Falken.

    Those have quotes like this:

    ====

    This is quoted text...
    ====

    instead of:

    ====
    This is quoted text...
    ====

    Is that what you meant?

    I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this to Aftershock's developer.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Fri Nov 18 11:34:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    The Fidonet "RPG Literature" echo is the only place that I see
    frequent use of Aftershock/Telegram. Nearly any message in there is a good example.

    After a quick glance at LITRPG the only messages with bad quotes
    I find are some from John Dovey, replies to you or to Richard
    Falken.

    Those have quotes like this:

    ====

    This is quoted text...
    ====

    instead of:

    ====
    This is quoted text...
    ====

    Is that what you meant?

    Yes, that's one type. Also some wrapping / linelength issues, which
    could be just poor configuration by the user.

    Another probably-user problem is the complete lack of quoting of any
    kind by some users. Maybe they're ignorant, or maybe the software
    doesn't quote by default, I don't know.

    I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
    to Aftershock's developer.

    Well that's excellent, thanks.


    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Rudi Timmermans@2:292/140 to Carlos Navarro on Fri Nov 18 19:57:17 2022
    Hi Carlos,

    I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this to Aftershock's developer.

    I have report it to Anatoly.


    ---
    Best regards,
    Rudi Timmermans.
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
    * Origin: Light Station (2:292/140)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Rudi Timmermans on Fri Nov 18 22:09:38 2022
    18 Nov 2022 19:57, you wrote to me:

    I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
    to Aftershock's developer.

    I have report it to Anatoly.

    Ok, anyway I'm reporting this in the AFTERSHOCK echo with more info about the issue.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Dan Clough on Mon Nov 21 20:13:08 2022
    18 Nov 2022 11:34, you wrote to me:

    Yes, that's one type. Also some wrapping / linelength issues, which
    could be just poor configuration by the user.

    If you find some example please give me some info about those message(s), so that I can check...

    I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
    to Aftershock's developer.

    Well that's excellent, thanks.

    And it will be fixed in version 1.6.12 - I've already checked the beta and works fine!

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Nov 9 23:47:52 2022

    Echomail is just a different flavor of netmail.
    The only "rule" to become a sysop is to demonstrate
    the ability to send and receive netmail.

    All of us in this echo have demonstrated that ability.

    Therefore, all participants in this echo hsve passed the
    test and are hereby certified as Fidonet sysops.

    NO.


    sys·op
    /?sisäp/

    noun: sysop; plural noun: sysops
    a system operator.

    and in FidoNet, that means one of the officially recognized systems.

    JD
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Nick Andre on Thu Nov 10 13:27:27 2022

    On 10 Nov 22 07:11:00, Kurt Weiske said the following to John Dovey:

    Therefore, all participants in this echo hsve passed the
    test and are hereby certified as Fidonet sysops.

    NO.

    I'd love to be able to add "Fidonet Sysop Certification" to my resume. Is
    there a test?

    I've listed Fido as a skill on my resume... and not a probation status either.

    LOL. Some people have a comprehension problem I guess.

    JD

    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Carlos Navarro on Fri Nov 18 21:05:41 2022

    18 Nov 2022 19:57, you wrote to me:

    I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
    to Aftershock's developer.

    I have report it to Anatoly.

    Ok, anyway I'm reporting this in the AFTERSHOCK echo with more info about the issue.

    Carlos

    Thanks Carlos.
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From Daniel PATH@2:371/52.1 to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 9 18:41:47 2022
    //Hello Dan,//

    on *09.11.22* at *2:42:00* You wrote in area *FN_SYSOP*
    to *Nigel Reed* about *"Re: Bad behaviour not wanted."*.


    It's supposed to be sysop-only. Unfortunately many sysops don't
    bother to properly configure their echos, and don't seem to care even
    when that is pointed out. The web interface is another way it becomes public, and find-able in search engines. Again, because of poor configuration by sysops, either through ignorance, or willful disregard.

    The web access is especially aggravating to me personally. A BBS should not be also a website, in my opinion. I know, many feel otherwise. To
    me it "defeats the purpose" of running a BBS. If you want to run a website, then run a website, not a BBS. It takes away the "privacy" of
    a traditional BBS.

    agreed

    Regards,
    Daniel PATH
    --- WinPoint 400.2
    * Origin: Roon's Point (2:371/52.1)
  • From Daniel PATH@2:371/52.1 to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 9 18:43:21 2022
    //Hello Nigel,//

    on *09.11.22* at *3:50:41* You wrote in area *FN_SYSOP*
    to *Nick Andre* about *"Re: Bad behaviour not wanted."*.

    I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on and technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The same access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through the BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet access from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my BBS.

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    Regards,
    Daniel PATH
    --- WinPoint 400.2
    * Origin: Roon's Point (2:371/52.1)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Daniel PATH on Sat Dec 3 03:14:40 2022
    Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Daniel PATH to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 18:43:21

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    I don't know, why don't you go count them?
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Daniel Path on Sat Dec 3 09:13:45 2022
    On 09 Nov 22 18:43:21, Daniel Path said the following to Nigel Reed:

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    There is at least one or two that constantly look for access to the Z1C echo.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Daniel PATH on Sat Dec 3 10:01:18 2022
    Daniel PATH wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

    I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on and technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The same access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through the BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet access from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my BBS.

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    Back when Doc's Place went down for a while, a year or two ago, there were several displaced readers of the COOKING echo that were looking for a new
    board to participate in it from. With one exception, the users I tried to assist were all users of the web interface on that board.


    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nigel Reed on Sat Dec 3 20:36:49 2022

    03 Dec 22 03:14, Nigel Reed wrote to Daniel PATH:

    Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Daniel PATH to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 18:43:21

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    I don't know, why don't you go count them?

    Quite impossible to count, everyone may read at

    http://endofthelinebbs.com/?page=001-forum.ssjs&group=7

    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Nick Andre on Sat Dec 3 20:40:39 2022

    03 Dec 22 09:13, Nick Andre wrote to Daniel Path:

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    There is at least one or two that constantly look for access to the Z1C echo.

    Quite easy to get access. Nothing but stupid nodelist processing logs lately.

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nick Andre on Sat Dec 3 20:27:28 2022
    Nice guy... except when he would spam every freaking echo once a year or so.

    Uh?

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mike Powell on Sat Dec 3 11:46:02 2022
    On 03 Dec 22 10:01:18, Mike Powell said the following to Daniel Path:

    Back when Doc's Place went down for a while, a year or two ago, there were several displaced readers of the COOKING echo that were looking for a new

    Ahhh, Docs place.

    Nice guy... except when he would spam every freaking echo once a year or so.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Dec 3 20:04:00 2022

    http://endofthelinebbs.com/?page=001-forum.ssjs&group=7


    This is one is also pretty good, +S)earch'able

    https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/msgs/

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Sun Dec 4 13:23:58 2022
    This is one is also pretty good, +S)earch'able

    https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/msgs/

    Looks like a graveyard...

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/1.911 to August Abolins on Sun Dec 4 15:35:39 2022
    On 03 Dec 2022 20:04 August Abolins wrote to Tommi Koivula :


    http://endofthelinebbs.com/?page=001-forum.ssjs&group=7


    This is one is also pretty good, +S)earch'able

    https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/msgs/

    This thing was calling my bbs every day and it was capturing the login screen. Now it is blocked to the mailer.

    https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/?view=18601


    --- AfterShock/Android 1.7.1
    * Origin: ----. .---- .---- (2:221/1.911)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Dec 4 10:23:00 2022
    This thing was calling my bbs every day and it was capturing the login screen. Now it is blocked to the mailer.

    https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/?view=18601

    What other option would a system like that have? To check once
    a week perhaps? Doesn't TelnetBBS Guide do the same thing?

    I think the iptia bbs listing-system is a pretty good resource
    for the average user.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Daniel PATH on Sun Dec 4 18:36:28 2022
    Hello Daniel,

    I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on
    and
    technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The
    same
    access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through
    the
    BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet
    access
    from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my
    BBS.

    how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

    As many who want to.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nigel Reed on Sun Dec 11 13:56:32 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nigel Reed to All on Mon Nov 07 2022 08:49 pm

    On Mon, 7 Nov 2022 05:17:13 +0100
    "Bj_rn Felten" <bj_rn.felten@2:203/2> wrote:

    I tolerate a lot of bullshit between certain parties in the
    echo, but wishing cancer on someone is not acceptable.

    I don't think that this guy understands how badly his actions
    reflect on his parents. After all, they are the ones that obviously
    failed to teach him elementary, human decency. And that in turn gives
    his grandparents a bad rep too...

    I think too many people have been at this for a long time on both sides
    of the Atlantic. They all need to step down and let someone else take
    over, who are actually going to foster good relationships between zones
    and actually try to work together rather than wishing boils and warts
    on each other.

    This is bad for fidonet. The ZCs are representatives for us all.
    They're supposed to be grown adults but do not behave that way.

    I'm just thankful that new sysops don't need (or even can) see this
    before joining up with fidonet, otherwise I'm sure many wouldn't want
    to be party to such bickering. Maybe I'm just one of the "new" sysops
    who isn't used to something that's been going on for 38 years.

    Will be interesting to see if their children ever read these posts to
    see what spiteful, hurtful, hateful people their parents were.
    --
    End Of The Line BBS - Plano, TX
    telnet endofthelinebbs.com 23


    Nigel, ZCsare people too and they can be very reactive. Notice Ward isn't being reactive (atleast as far as I see so far). Bjorn (once a friend but doesn't seem to lke me any more) and Nick mixied it up.

    It's not about zones really. It's about people who are reactive. Reactive to insults or percieved ones.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 13:58:02 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Nigel Reed on Mon Nov 07 2022 11:12 pm

    On 07 Nov 22 20:49:47, Nigel Reed said the following to All:

    This is bad for fidonet. The ZCs are representatives for us all.
    They're supposed to be grown adults but do not behave that way.

    For the few people that flame me in public about how bad I am or not doing my job, privately I get double the supportive/understanding feedback.

    I actually have a good relation with the other ZC's but you won't see any of that, just singling me out for whatever I said that was somehow offensive to you. Someone who really know the context would understand. Someone who does not can and will hit the Next-key.

    Nick


    Yup. I got it.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 14:50:16 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 08:26 am

    On 08 Nov 22 21:50:41, Nigel Reed said the following to Nick Andre:

    When I started my BBS, one of my aims was to be connected to anything an everything I could. This last month I've dropped a lot of networks. All Gerts (Familynet, STN, Linuxnet, Gatornet, etc), Starnet and Sportsnet s shop as did combatnet. This is something I do agree on. There's too many

    I was the same way when I started in late '93... early '94. Nowadays there i too much supply, not enough demand. Its tempting to drop all of them here.

    Nick


    I did a bit ago. ow it's just Fidonet and my Battlenet (no messages, just BRE and FE games).

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 15:01:51 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Alan Ianson on Wed Nov 09 2022 08:32 am

    On 08 Nov 22 19:19:54, Alan Ianson said the following to Nick Andre:

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know w has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary sysops hangi around.

    I've never heard of the term "probationary Sysop" until recently.

    Mixed feelings about Allen, was nice to me but he tried shoving down my thro about running some weird central Hub system and was always going to be aroun reliable, etc etc till one day he just pulled a Frank...

    Nick


    Some areas had them. LA was one of them. The NC required a sysop 'point' for 2 years. I was south of it in net202 and happily doing boss node for 5 or 6 at a time then helping them apply. Brenda Donvan was NC202 and happy to accecpt the new nodes applying with my point address as she knew they were functional with minimal hub assist needed.

    The rest of us felt that Los Angeles NC was a P4 complaint waiting to happen. He also ran a 'for profit' cost share for mail. NET202 was strictly for cost with phone bill publically posted.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 11 15:12:34 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Ward Dossche to Dan Clough on Wed Nov 09 2022 10:35 pm

    Dan,

    I think that a sysop-only echo is sysop-only for both read and write. I guess the one who could/should answer this is the ECHO MODERATOR.

    There is no such thing as a sysop-only echo ... the moderator may name it so but it's meaningless.

    Way way back in time when animals still could talk I decided to keep ENET.SY closed but quickly discovered that in Fidonet there will always be at least participant who'll send it to a person whom does not qualify per the rules.

    I stopped worrying about that and accepted the reality that no echo is restricted. You have a secret to tell? Don't use echomail, send netmail ... crash.

    \%/@rd


    Maybe my friend, but I am happy for the long ago and still there feed from you.
    I am respectful there when I post (which is rare).

    Others should be as well.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 15:21:57 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Nick Andre to Lee Lofaso on Wed Nov 09 2022 11:39 pm

    On 10 Nov 22 05:22:34, Lee Lofaso said the following to Nick Andre:

    The troll says what?

    GET SOME HEARING AIDS.

    The troll says what?

    Nick


    Agreed. Lee Lofaso is a total troll. Always has been. don't worry to much about it though, everyone knows it.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Kurt Weiske on Sun Dec 11 15:27:53 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Kurt Weiske to Lee Lofaso on Thu Nov 10 2022 06:56 am

    Lee Lofaso wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Participants own this echo. Sysops and probationary sysops alike.
    As well as moderators and moderator wannabes. And Canucks.

    Or, those who self-identify as sysops?

    My wife is sysop-adjacent, does she count?


    ... If it isn't broken, I can fix it.

    LOL, I was down for 6 days due to a power outage. My 'co ajacent' husband didn't know to tell me. I came home and pressd the power button....

    Grin, he doesn't count.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 11 15:52:26 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Ward Dossche to August Abolins on Sat Nov 12 2022 02:52 pm

    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...

    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    \%/@rd


    Yes and I like Telegram. Stas did good there! It's basically a sort of point and OLR at once. Happy to see them in ASIAN_LINK here!

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Dec 11 16:02:54 2022
    Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Tommi Koivula to Ward Dossche on Sat Nov 12 2022 09:21 pm

    On 12.11.2022 14:52, Ward Dossche wrote:

    I'd say message exchange via JamNNTP is a different kind of
    Board, focused on messaging.

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the
    Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...

    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    One might ask where is the limit of native fidonet messages and gated messages...

    Jam(Smapi)NNTPd is just an ftn editor over nntp protocol, it reads and write JAM/Squish/OPUS message base as any traditional ftn msg editor or bbs softwa

    If I get it right, Telegram BBS of Stas is a gateway from fidonet to telegra and vice versa.


    Telegram operates like an OLR. It has added ability to select message areas where the requests are sent over email to the 'Hub' (Stas last I heard).

    The message areas are limited to those of us willing to accept them. This is because some mistakenly think it's functionaly is 'gated'. It's not and never was.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 11 16:14:38 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Ward Dossche to Alan Ianson on Sun Nov 13 2022 06:10 pm

    Alan,

    It's not about Khontrol, it's simply a place for sysops to discuss what they want to discuss with other sysops.

    It's a BBS thing ... I run a node and an editor, sysops can link in if they desire...

    Not wanting to mention zones but BBS-ing is not core anymore to operations here. One time I had one and then I lost interest, it was just more of what already available elsewhere.

    How's the snow?

    \%/@rd


    Here's a new one! WE went solar. I am told in my southerly location, it will have just enough heat to melt snow off the panels.

    My system won't totally power the house year long but it will power the BBS machines and about 51% of our total use during the year.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Dan Clough on Sun Dec 11 16:25:52 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Dan Clough to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 16 2022 09:37 pm

    Nigel Reed wrote to All <=-

    And let's not focus too much on JamNNTP alone ... there's also the Telegram-platform that no-one worries about ...
    I find it rather interesting how all these technologies bind together.

    I was against Telegram integration to start with and I still
    can't say I'm happy with it, but then again, I don't use the
    echoes that are connected to it, so in the end it really doesn't matter.

    I kind of half-watch an echo with Telegram participants, and it's a
    complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general stupidity.


    ... Sometimes you get the elevator, and sometimes you get the shaft.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    Really? I'm one of the listed ones and no ssuch thing has happened.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Dan Clough on Sun Dec 11 16:32:32 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Dan Clough to August Abolins on Thu Nov 17 2022 07:54 am

    August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
    due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
    stupidity.

    You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
    complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
    Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
    since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's
    that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and
    basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software /
    message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
    at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple,
    simpleton.



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were in the first few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been no issues otherthan a few *early* ones that caused odd tear lines. They did not affectoperations and were quickly patched by Stas.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 18:24:54 2022

    Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were in the first
    few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been no issues otherthan a few
    *early* ones that caused odd tear lines. They did not affectoperations and
    were quickly patched by Stas.


    Ignore Dan. He's been irrational on the issue of LitRPG in general and latched onto the "but it's Telegram" argument. He continues to claim things as true which are false, in fact which are demonstrably the opposite to what he claims, on numerous occasions. Don't waste any time or energy on him, just delete and move on.

    JD
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 15:24:47 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 2022 03:01 pm

    Some areas had them. LA was one of them. The NC required a sysop 'point' for 2 years. I was south of it in net202 and happily doing boss node for 5 or 6 at a time then helping them apply. Brenda Donvan was NC202 and happy to accecpt the new nodes applying with my point address as she knew they were functional with minimal hub assist needed.

    Wow, that's a new one to me!

    The San Francisco bay area (net 161 and net 125) back in the day had its share of power grabs. The NEC not only had a cost recovery program in place, he tried to discourage people from going outside of the net with Planet Connect or other alternative means ("outing" people who opted out and complaining publicly that doing so would make it difficult to afford the cost recovery program.)

    The final straw, if memory serves was that he wanted the net to pay for a fairly high-powered PC and a US Robotics modem, just for handling the mail.

    In retrospect, there were probably over 100 nodes or more in the network, and LD was pricey back then.
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 15:27:52 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 11 2022 04:14 pm

    Here's a new one! WE went solar. I am told in my southerly location, it will have just enough heat to melt snow off the panels.

    My system won't totally power the house year long but it will power the BBS machines and about 51% of our total use during the year.

    I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill. It's nice to fly under the radar. :)
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to John Dovey on Sun Dec 11 18:22:00 2022
    John Dovey wrote to Carol Shenkenberger <=-

    Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were in the first
    few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been no issues otherthan a few
    *early* ones that caused odd tear lines. They did not affectoperations and
    were quickly patched by Stas.

    Ignore Dan. He's been irrational on the issue of LitRPG in
    general and latched onto the "but it's Telegram" argument. He
    continues to claim things as true which are false, in fact which
    are demonstrably the opposite to what he claims, on numerous
    occasions. Don't waste any time or energy on him, just delete and
    move on.

    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS users
    trash the echos they post in, which is easily verified by just *LOOKING*
    at the echo with a "normal" mail reader. Mangled quoting, lack of
    context, lack of quoting, etc. It's all right there and easily seen, if
    you pull your head out of your ass. That's the end of the argument, all
    a person has to do is GO LOOK AT IT.

    Your personal grudges at being called out on it don't make you right.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 18:28:00 2022
    Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Dan Clough to August Abolins on Thu Nov 17 2022 07:54 am

    complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
    due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
    stupidity.

    You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
    complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
    Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
    since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

    I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's
    that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and
    basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software /
    message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
    at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple,
    simpleton.

    Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were
    in the first few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been
    no issues otherthan a few *early* ones that caused odd tear
    lines. They did not affectoperations and were quickly patched by
    Stas.

    Have you considered checking/reading echomail more often than once a
    month? I've been all through this and don't feel like re-hashing it yet again. Read the complete thread.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Kurt Weiske on Sun Dec 11 16:55:50 2022
    BY: Kurt Weiske(1:218/700)


    I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill.
    It's nice to fly under the radar. :)
    running the bbs on a gaming computer can be costly.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Matt Munson on Sun Dec 11 20:56:00 2022
    Matt Munson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill.
    It's nice to fly under the radar. :)

    running the bbs on a gaming computer can be costly.

    Who would be dumb enough to do that?



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Nigel Reed@1:124/5016 to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 20:59:10 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nigel Reed on Sun Dec 11 2022 13:56:32

    It's not about zones really. It's about people who are reactive. Reactive to insults or percieved ones.

    Well, people need to chill the f*k down. It's a hobby. People do it for the enjoyment. It's a dying hobby, nodes are doing down all the time. This is not a good way to introduce new sysops into the world of BBSing.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Nigel Reed on Sun Dec 11 20:28:59 2022
    BY: Nigel Reed(1:124/5016)


    Well, people need to chill the f*k down. It's a hobby. People do it for
    the enjoyment. It's a dying hobby, nodes are doing down all the time.
    Yes, we should try our best not to scare people off.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Nigel Reed on Mon Dec 12 18:34:42 2022

    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nigel Reed on Sun Dec 11 2022 13:56:32

    It's not about zones really. It's about people who are reactive. Reactive
    to insults or percieved ones.

    Well, people need to chill the f*k down. It's a hobby. People do it for the enjoyment. It's a dying hobby, nodes are doing down all the time. This is not a good way to introduce new sysops into the world of BBSing.

    Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, some people don't seem to be able to help themselves.

    JD
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Matt Munson on Mon Dec 12 06:01:00 2022
    Matt Munson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    running the bbs on a gaming computer can be costly.

    Not sure why you'd choose to; old laptops make wonderful BBSes. You can tuek them in most anywhere, they have good power management, so you can throttle
    it down when idle, and they have a built-in UPS.

    On another benefit, when my power was out for an extended period of time, I took the BBS to my office, went onto the guest wireless, and was able to download packets from my uplink and crashmail them to my downlinks.


    ... Don't break the silence
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1234 to Dan Clough on Tue Dec 13 21:36:37 2022
    11 dic 2022 18:22, Dan Clough -> John Dovey:

    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS users trash the echos they post in, which is easily verified by just *LOOKING* at the echo with a "normal" mail reader. Mangled quoting, lack of context, lack of quoting, etc.

    I am not going to comment about tg_bbs (for now), but just a clarification about AfterShock: the mangled quoting issue, that only happened in some cases (if there were useless LF chars in the replied-to message), was fixed in version 1.6.12.

    If you find any other issue related to AfterShock, please let us know (with an example or some info) so that we can report it to the developer.

    Carlos

    --- AfterShock/Android 1.7.1
    * Origin: cyb mobile test point (2:341/234.1234)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Dec 13 22:38:18 2022
    Hello Carol,

    The troll says what?

    GET SOME HEARING AIDS.

    The troll says what?

    Nick


    Agreed. Lee Lofaso is a total troll. Always has been. don't worry to much
    about it though, everyone knows it.

    We are all trolls.
    And that is the beauty of Fidonet.
    However, one thing must be made clear.
    There is only one supertroll.
    And like the highlander of old told us,
    so many centuries ago -

    THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Because not everyone likes licorice

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Kurt Weiske on Tue Dec 13 18:46:00 2022
    Hello Kurt Weiske!

    ** On Monday 12.12.22 - 06:01, Kurt Weiske wrote to Matt Munson:

    ...and they have a built-in UPS.

    But it's getting increasingly expensive to replace oem
    batteries from ancient laptops.


    On another benefit, when my power was out for an extended period of time..

    Wow. Dedication, or desperation? :D Resourcefulness for
    sure!


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Dec 13 20:56:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    11 dic 2022 18:22, Dan Clough -> John Dovey:

    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS users trash the echos they post in, which is easily verified by just *LOOKING* at the echo with a "normal" mail reader. Mangled quoting, lack of context, lack of quoting, etc.

    I am not going to comment about tg_bbs (for now), but just a
    clarification about AfterShock: the mangled quoting issue, that
    only happened in some cases (if there were useless LF chars in
    the replied-to message), was fixed in version 1.6.12.

    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
    an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected. I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
    are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
    about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for
    themselves.

    Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

    If you find any other issue related to AfterShock, please let us
    know (with an example or some info) so that we can report it to
    the developer.

    I will do that.


    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Rob Swindell to Kurt Weiske on Tue Dec 13 23:35:59 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Kurt Weiske to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 2022 03:27 pm

    I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill. It's nice to fly under the radar. :)

    Not using LED bulbs? :-)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Rob Swindell on Wed Dec 14 06:28:00 2022
    Rob Swindell wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill. It's nice to fly under the radar. :)

    Not using LED bulbs? :-)

    Now, most of them are - it's getting difficult to find incandescent bulbs
    any more.

    I replaced some fluorescent bulbs recently and found LED tubes - they're the same form factor, but inside are a line of LEDs. They lightg up quickly and don't flicker like fluorescents do.


    ... Convert a melodic element into a rhythmic element
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to August Abolins on Wed Dec 14 06:39:00 2022
    August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    ...and they have a built-in UPS.

    But it's getting increasingly expensive to replace oem
    batteries from ancient laptops.

    Not IBM Thinkpads. The trick is to stick with corporate brand lines. A Dell Optiplex or a Thinkpad should have a good market - I found a new battery for
    a 10 year-old Thinkpad recently.

    On another benefit, when my power was out for an extended period of time..

    Wow. Dedication, or desperation? :D Resourcefulness for
    sure!

    A little of both - I had to go into work anyways, and I'm a regional coordinator for Fidonet, so I had a region worth of sysops waiting on mail packets.


    ... Consider different fading systems
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dan Clough on Wed Dec 14 20:20:00 2022
    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
    an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected.

    At least Carlos did something constructive. All you did was
    chirp like Chicken Little and wanted all smartphone usage to
    stop.

    I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
    are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
    about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

    Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to August Abolins on Wed Dec 14 20:05:00 2022
    August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
    an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected.

    At least Carlos did something constructive. All you did was
    chirp like Chicken Little and wanted all smartphone usage to
    stop.

    My chirping was what brought the issue to light, so it could be
    corrected. I'd call that constructive, too, even if you didn't
    personally like it. That's *your* problem.

    I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
    are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
    about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

    Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

    So, you're saying that a problem which was pointed out, and subsequently corrected, was "irrational and unsupported". Right. That makes a lot
    of sense. Sure.

    The only reason any "ranting" was even required was that you (and
    others) would not acknowledge an OBVIOUS flaw, even though it was right
    in front of you the whole time. NONE of that is just my opinion, it was
    all simple facts, easily verified by anyone, and right there in public
    for all to see. You all just didn't want to admit there was an issue
    for reasons which escape me. Let me know if you have a better
    explanation, and if not..... STFU.



    ... Apathy Error: Strike any key...or none, for that matter.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Thu Dec 15 10:27:29 2022
    I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
    are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational" AA>DC> about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for
    themselves.

    Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

    Thank you <insert appropriate superior being who is expected to solve everything by praying to him/her/it (*) but in reality it's just nature and physics>, I'm not alone in the universe.....

    \%/@rd

    (*) encircle which is appropriate

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Dan Clough on Thu Dec 15 08:22:00 2022
    My chirping was what brought the issue to light, so it could be
    corrected. I'd call that constructive, too, even if you didn't
    personally like it. That's *your* problem.

    No.. it was Carlos that noticed that LFs in some messages
    potentially exacerbated a reply issue. The phone apps
    themselves were not the problem. You didn't provided anything
    noteworthy except your sky-is-flling-with-smartphone-apps rant.

    Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

    So, you're saying that a problem which was pointed out, and subsequently corrected, was "irrational and unsupported". Right. That makes a lot
    of sense. Sure.

    Your rant was the irrational part, not the problem that Carlos
    discovered. ;) All you did was proclaim that Tg is broken,
    and then you shifted to Aftershock is broken, and you even
    targeted the users of those interfaces to cease and desist.


    ..You all just didn't want to admit there was an issue for
    reasons which escape me. Let me know if you have a better
    explanation, and if not..... STFU.

    Not true. We asked for verifiable info. You provided none.
    Most FTN messages looked good most of the time.

    Meanwhile the user with the initials RF on your system still
    continues to use a non-initial quote setting on YOUR system and
    that counters to one of your complaints that some messages in
    LITRPG didn't have "proper quoting". And THAT problem is
    originating at your system. ;)

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From John Dovey@4:920/1.1 to Dan Clough on Thu Dec 15 10:05:46 2022

    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected. I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
    about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

    Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

    When we were exploring the reasons and extent of the problem, you insisted on more than one occasion that it was "proof" of the TG gateway being at fault, so yes. I stand by my irrational comment.

    GFY

    JD
    --- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
    * Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to John Dovey on Thu Dec 15 09:17:00 2022
    John Dovey wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
    an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected. I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
    are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
    about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

    Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

    When we were exploring the reasons and extent of the problem,

    So, you *ALSO* admit that there was a problem. Yes, the problem that
    *I* pointed out. Thanks.

    you insisted on more than one occasion that it was "proof" of the
    TG gateway being at fault, so yes.

    Wrong. That's a lie. I never ONCE said anything about any "gateway", I claimed that it was the TG/AS applications that were the source of the problem. Turns out I was right. Did you miss where Carlos said that
    somebody had corrected the "extra LF" issue in a new release of one of
    those apps? Selective reading perhaps? Can't admit you were wrong?

    I stand by my irrational comment.

    Which one? Nearly all of your comments are irrational.

    GFY

    Oh, that's nice. I won't stoop to your level.

    Game. Set. Match.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to August Abolins on Thu Dec 15 19:02:34 2022
    15 Dec 2022 08:22, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    Meanwhile the user with the initials RF on your system still
    continues to use a non-initial quote setting on YOUR system and
    that counters to one of your complaints that some messages in
    LITRPG didn't have "proper quoting". And THAT problem is
    originating at your system. ;)

    That's not a problem. Quoting without initials is fine too.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Dan Clough on Thu Dec 15 20:06:29 2022
    13 Dec 2022 20:56, you wrote to me:

    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there
    was an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected.

    You're welcome. Just trying to help improve it now that its developer is working on it again after some years.

    I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this
    thread are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm
    "irrational" about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see
    it for themselves.

    I wouldn't say you're "irrational". But I think you're wrong when you mix AfterShock and tg_BBS as if they were the same thing, just because both are mostly used on mobile devices.

    AfterShock is a "normal" mail reader, a FTN package just like e.g. FrontDoor/APX or WinPoint, but for Android.

    The Telegram BBS/gateway is something completely different thing that, I agree, has some issues. Some of them can be fixed (I've reported one recently), but others... not sure.

    If you find any other issue related to AfterShock, please let us
    know (with an example or some info) so that we can report it to
    the developer.

    I will do that.

    Great.

    BTW I've noticed that your editor has issues with quoting: it doesn't append the ">" to previously quoted text.
    See your message, the one I'm replying to:

    === Cut ===
    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS
    === /Cut ===

    It should have been:

    === Cut ===
    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS
    === /Cut ===

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Dec 15 15:46:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    13 Dec 2022 20:56, you wrote to me:

    Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there
    was an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
    corrected.

    You're welcome. Just trying to help improve it now that its
    developer is working on it again after some years.

    Glad to hear.

    I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this
    thread are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm
    "irrational" about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see
    it for themselves.

    I wouldn't say you're "irrational". But I think you're wrong when
    you mix AfterShock and tg_BBS as if they were the same thing,
    just because both are mostly used on mobile devices.

    Perhaps I did lump them both into the same category. I'll be sure to
    watch for that in future.

    AfterShock is a "normal" mail reader, a FTN package just like
    e.g. FrontDoor/APX or WinPoint, but for Android.

    Ack.

    The Telegram BBS/gateway is something completely different thing
    that, I agree, has some issues. Some of them can be fixed (I've
    reported one recently), but others... not sure.

    Okay.

    BTW I've noticed that your editor has issues with quoting: it
    doesn't append the ">" to previously quoted text. See your
    message, the one I'm replying to:

    === Cut ===
    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS
    === /Cut ===

    It should have been:

    === Cut ===
    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS
    === /Cut ===

    Yes, I see that. It (MultiMail) does do the first quote, but indeed
    does not "increment" the quoting on later replies. I will report that
    on the git project for this software, and hopefully the author will take
    note and correct.

    Thanks for your reply.


    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to John Dovey on Fri Dec 16 00:31:02 2022
    John,

    Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

    When we were exploring the reasons and extent of the problem, you
    insisted on more than one occasion that it was "proof" of the TG gateway being at fault, so yes. I stand by my irrational comment.

    Dan just inspired me to formulate the 22nd law:

    "When you have nothing to say, then agreeing with the last speaker,
    gives you nevertheless the last word"

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Carlos Navarro on Thu Dec 15 15:27:58 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    === Cut ===
    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS
    === /Cut ===

    It should have been:

    === Cut ===
    "Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS
    === /Cut ===

    Since "DC" is "Dan Clough," aren't they both correct?

    I am using the latest MultiMail release (or close to it!) and that is how
    it applied the quotes to your message... "CN>" is you, and "DC>" is Dan.

    Mike

    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Mike Powell on Sat Dec 17 10:31:09 2022
    15 Dec 2022 15:27, you wrote to me:

    Since "DC" is "Dan Clough," aren't they both correct?

    I am using the latest MultiMail release (or close to it!) and that is
    how it applied the quotes to your message... "CN>" is you, and "DC>"
    is Dan.

    Check Dan's message to me dated 13 Dec 2022 20:56 (MSGID: 4614.fido_fn_sysop@1:123/115 27fe86f8)

    It should be "DC>>", not "DC>".

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Dan Clough on Sat Dec 17 11:07:31 2022
    15 Dec 2022 15:46, you wrote to me:

    Yes, I see that. It (MultiMail) does do the first quote, but indeed
    does not "increment" the quoting on later replies. I will report that
    on the git project for this software, and hopefully the author will
    take note and correct.

    Great. I just saw you created an issue on the repo. ;-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Carlos Navarro on Sat Dec 17 09:02:00 2022
    Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Yes, I see that. It (MultiMail) does do the first quote, but indeed
    does not "increment" the quoting on later replies. I will report that
    on the git project for this software, and hopefully the author will
    take note and correct.

    Great. I just saw you created an issue on the repo. ;-)

    Yes; hopefully the author is responsive.



    ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Kurt Weiske on Sat Dec 17 01:13:10 2022
    BY: Kurt Weiske(1:218/700)


    Not sure why you'd choose to; old laptops make wonderful BBSes. You can tuek
    them in most anywhere, they have good power management, so you can
    throttle
    it down when idle, and they have a built-in UPS.
    I would love to run it under a raspberry pi. I turn off my monitor and turn off other appliances to neutralize the energy costs in my room.


    --- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to John Dovey on Sun Dec 18 15:52:42 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: John Dovey to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 2022 06:24 pm

    Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were in the first
    few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been no issues othertha few
    *early* ones that caused odd tear lines. They did not affectoperations and
    were quickly patched by Stas.


    Ignore Dan. He's been irrational on the issue of LitRPG in general and latch onto the "but it's Telegram" argument. He continues to claim things as true which are false, in fact which are demonstrably the opposite to what he clai on numerous occasions. Don't waste any time or energy on him, just delete an move on.

    JD

    Might do just that.

    As an early adopter who was delighted with the idea, we were one of the first 10 I think. Maybe first 8?

    NO posts were really problematic, just some odd tear lines fast fixed within about a week. Utterly happy with them.

    People who think it's 'gating' are mistaken. It's sort of a cross between tranx and an OLR. Point system may also be applicable.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Kurt Weiske on Sun Dec 18 17:11:33 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Kurt Weiske to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 2022 03:24 pm

    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 2022 03:01 pm

    Some areas had them. LA was one of them. The NC required a sysop 'point' for 2 years. I was south of it in net202 and happily doing boss node for or 6 at a time then helping them apply. Brenda Donvan was NC202 and happ to accecpt the new nodes applying with my point address as she knew they were functional with minimal hub assist needed.

    Wow, that's a new one to me!

    The San Francisco bay area (net 161 and net 125) back in the day had its sha of power grabs. The NEC not only had a cost recovery program in place, he tr to discourage people from going outside of the net with Planet Connect or ot alternative means ("outing" people who opted out and complaining publicly th doing so would make it difficult to afford the cost recovery program.)

    The final straw, if memory serves was that he wanted the net to pay for a fairly high-powered PC and a US Robotics modem, just for handling the mail.

    In retrospect, there were probably over 100 nodes or more in the network, an LD was pricey back then.

    I remember. NET202 was VERY different under Brenda Donovan. The RC or maybe it was the REC, wanted us to pull instate at a higher rate. Brenda said no and pulled fom Nevada. Polled the NC for just netmail.

    We had a CRP and a *voluntary* donation for equipment costs. Our hoghest bill was 7$ per member as I recall. They got as low as 2.50 or so per quarter. Phone bill was posted publically for all to see.

    I moved to Norfolk area in 1995. We didn't have a CRP. We drew from John Souvester then from the net north of us then I setup a feed with John S. and was a local dial to the net north so fed them. Became NC then RC then moved to Japan and eventually Z6C. Leaving Japan, (moved all remaining nodes to Z3 after a Z6 vote) and back to NC in Norfolk area.

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Carol Shenkenberger@1:275/100 to Kurt Weiske on Sun Dec 18 17:45:43 2022
    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Kurt Weiske to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 2022 03:27 pm

    Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
    By: Carol Shenkenberger to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 11 2022 04:14 pm

    Here's a new one! WE went solar. I am told in my southerly location, it will have just enough heat to melt snow off the panels.

    My system won't totally power the house year long but it will power the machines and about 51% of our total use during the year.

    I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, runn on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill. It's nice to fl under the radar. :)

    Well, Gas heat (HVAC so electrical blower), my bills are/were about 75$ a month in winter. Right now on sunny days or middling cloudy, I generate much more than I consume. It was only turned on on 29Nov and this season is pretty cloudy here. Cant really tell but suspect bill will be 25$ or so? (partial month and only 3 clear days).

    xxcarol
    --- SBBSecho 2.11-Win32
    * Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS (1:275/100)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Carol Shenkenberger on Wed Dec 21 09:37:00 2022
    Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

    Well, Gas heat (HVAC so electrical blower), my bills are/were about 75$
    a month in winter. Right now on sunny days or middling cloudy, I
    generate much more than I consume. It was only turned on on 29Nov and this season is pretty cloudy here. Cant really tell but suspect bill
    will be 25$ or so? (partial month and only 3 clear days).

    I was just telling the story of setting up my BBS back in 1991. I had a 286 with 2 32MB drives. I was worried about how it would affect my utility bill.

    I lived in a studio apartment in a 1920s art deco-esque building in San Francisco. We had steam heat for free run off of a central boiler with a radiator that heated the space up wonderfully.

    My first bill went up from $16/month to $20/month.

    Those were the days...


    ... Imagine the music as a set of disconnected events
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Alan Ianson on Fri Dec 9 22:44:05 2022

    Hello Alan!

    08 Nov 22 19:19, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary
    sysops hanging around.
    He is more focused on fighting his cancer battle and his diabetes. I did also offer to pay one of his medications.

    Matt


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Nick Andre on Fri Dec 9 22:45:54 2022
    Hello Nick!

    09 Nov 22 08:26, you wrote to Nigel Reed:

    When I started my BBS, one of my aims was to be connected to
    anything and everything I could. This last month I've dropped a
    lot of networks. All of Gerts (Familynet, STN, Linuxnet, Gatornet,
    etc), Starnet and Sportsnet shut shop as did combatnet. This is
    something I do agree on. There's too many

    I was the same way when I started in late '93... early '94. Nowadays
    there is too much supply, not enough demand. Its tempting to drop all
    of them here.

    22 years ago, we had the posters to justify all those othernets. I had like 6-8 from the USA/CAN and 2-3 from the UK back in those glory days.

    Matt


    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Matt Munson on Sat Dec 31 08:03:01 2022
    On 09 Dec 22 22:45:54, Matt Munson said the following to Nick Andre:

    22 years ago, we had the posters to justify all those othernets. I had like 6-8 from the USA/CAN and 2-3 from the UK back in those glory days.

    I was one of the first boards in my area at the time to have Internet email access via nightly long distance mailer calls to a UUCP system in Toronto. Then there was Usenet groups via another system in Montreal. And having to chip in for the Planet Connect fido-hub in Net 252.

    My favourite was watching all the Lord and Tradewars addicts slam my board exactly at midnight every night to play their turns. Hilarious...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nick Andre on Sun Jan 1 09:35:38 2023
    Nick Andre wrote to Matt Munson <=-

    My favourite was watching all the Lord and Tradewars addicts slam my
    board exactly at midnight every night to play their turns. Hilarious...

    Those were the days. :)




    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)