• Snitch Country

    From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to All on Wed Aug 10 22:45:25 2022
    Did you hear about the 17yo girl that was criminally charged with a horrendous crime after an *anonymous* tip. The tip led to a request from the prosecutor to get her private messages (DMs) from Facebook, and they were happy to oblige. This then led to further confiscating phones and laptops.

    So, make sure that you don't post anything sensitive on social media. Snitches are all around you, filled with envy and hate. Even someone that you consider to be your best friend. Just like in the former DDR.

    Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous crime was that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after the "legal" 20 weeks...

    https://youtu.be/JpKgoCVxoiM




    ..

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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Wed Aug 10 18:45:00 2022
    Björn Felten wrote to All <=-

    Did you hear about the 17yo girl that was criminally charged with
    a horrendous crime after an *anonymous* tip. The tip led to a
    request from the prosecutor to get her private messages (DMs)
    from Facebook, and they were happy to oblige. This then led to
    further confiscating phones and laptops.

    So, make sure that you don't post anything sensitive on social
    media. Snitches are all around you, filled with envy and hate.
    Even someone that you consider to be your best friend. Just like
    in the former DDR.

    Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or
    North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous
    crime was that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after
    the "legal" 20 weeks...

    It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
    in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.

    You're pathetic. Fuck off, loser.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 02:33:04 2022
    Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or
    North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous
    crime was that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after
    the "legal" 20 weeks...

    It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
    in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.

    Well ... hmmmm ... maybe you could find an example how human rights are trashed in Sweden and pay him back?

    Start looking, when you find something let us know...

    \%/@rd

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    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Wed Aug 10 21:11:42 2022
    On 10 Aug 22 18:45:00, Dan Clough said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
    in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.

    You're pathetic. Fuck off, loser.

    He's just coming off the high of others celebrating his recent birthday apparently.

    My message-bases go back to 2003. Anytime the meatball receives even the most trivial of compliments he quickly posts the usual love letters to the USA. Every. Single. Time.

    I actually wish him a fantastic birthday as well... one more year counting towards his inevitable conclusion. Sucks that it can't happen quick enough.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Wed Aug 10 21:29:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or
    North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous
    crime was that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after
    the "legal" 20 weeks...

    It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
    in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.

    Well ... hmmmm ... maybe you could find an example how human
    rights are trashed in Sweden and pay him back?

    That wasn't my point, and you know it.

    If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
    insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?

    Yeah, that's right. There aren't any. That's because *HIS* point
    wasn't about human rights, either. It was just another cheap shot
    opportunity to poke at the USA. He's obsessed with finding fault with
    the USA, and you know it as well as I do.

    Start looking, when you find something let us know...

    It sure is interesting how you feel the need to defend him at every
    chance given. I wonder why that is.


    ... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Wed Aug 10 21:32:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    On 10 Aug 22 18:45:00, Dan Clough said the following to Bj*Rn
    Felten:

    It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
    in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.

    He's just coming off the high of others celebrating his recent
    birthday apparently.

    Are you trying to tell me he's got friends? <SCOFF>

    My message-bases go back to 2003. Anytime the meatball receives
    even the most trivial of compliments he quickly posts the usual
    love letters to the USA. Every. Single. Time.

    I don't doubt it a bit.

    I actually wish him a fantastic birthday as well... one more year
    counting towards his inevitable conclusion. Sucks that it can't
    happen quick enough.

    100%. Maybe he'll visit the USA soon, where it's very dangerous. ;-)


    ... The future's uncertain, the end is always near.
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 09:32:36 2022
    Dan Clough -> Björn Felten skrev 2022-08-11 01:45:
    It must suck to be so insanely obsessed with another country. You live
    in Sweden, but all you ever think about is the USA.

    Your lack of empathy with the poor girl is deafening. I guess your obsession with me is clouding your judgement.




    ..

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 09:53:07 2022
    If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
    insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?

    They pose no threat to the rest of the world. A fascist USA will.

    Just like a movement in Germany a century ago, the neo-fascists in the USA are appealing to the lowest of human instincts, xenophobia and nationalism, spreading hatred against socialism and liberalism as well as scientists.

    A Nazi USA would make Nazi Germany seem like a North Korea in comparison. The world's only hope is that many enough of the US people can connect the dots and put a stop to the frightening development in the mighty USA and it's dream of world domination.

    That's in a nutshell why I am concerned about what has been taking place in the USA, that I used to love, in the last two decades.


    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 11 10:04:24 2022
    Hello Björn,

    On Thursday August 11 2022 09:53, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    That's in a nutshell why I am concerned about what has been taking place in the USA, that I used to love, in the last two decades.

    I share your concerns. Add to that that Trump may win again in 2024 and it scares the shit out of me. :(


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 11:36:28 2022
    Hi Dan,

    That wasn't my point, and you know it.

    Well, I'm not sure what your point is, but is the information which Bjorn passed around incorrect?

    The event simply is headlined in Europe, front page in newspapers kinda style ... gossiping about a girlfriend, snitching to the authorities and reporting someone indeed is what was being done in the DDR of old, and the USSR, and (I'm sorry Godwin) Nazi Germany.

    Facebook assisting the authorities in catching criminals I can live with, but you must be a pretty dumb criminal to use Messenger for illegal activities. In this case there's a frightened young girl who wants to walk away from something which spells 'disaster' for the remainder of her life and people like Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas et al have no business what goes on in a woman's belly. If only the female justices would be involved it would be 3-1 in favour of 'Roe vs Wade' ... and that says a lot.

    Yes, we are shocked by such decisions in a country which is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and democracy.

    We are also shocked that a governing body such as the US Supreme Court can be composed so unbalanced and is not ashamed to push through a political agenda. Even Americans are shocked. Last week I was in DC and the only building that was protected by riot-barriers and police was the Supreme Court ...

    How can it be that a body of 9 justices, whatever the majority, in 1973 decides that state laws banning abortion are unconstitutional and 49 years later decide that it "is" constitutional without a single letter in that constitution having been changed ... pure ridiculous ... party-political and religious driven in a country which prides itself of the separation between church and state.

    If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
    insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?

    I think he has, maybe not in echoes which you read.

    Yeah, that's right. There aren't any. That's because *HIS* point
    wasn't about human rights, either. It was just another cheap shot opportunity to poke at the USA. He's obsessed with finding fault with
    the USA, and you know it as well as I do.

    On the contrary, he's a frequent former USA-traveller and in a good position to judge different systems. Even my 12yr old granddaughter who was with me in DC wondered often aloud "Are they nuts in the USA?" and that was when we were talking about healthcare, retirement, education, LGBT-rights, abortion, privacy ... 12 years and unpolluted by life ...

    It sure is interesting how you feel the need to defend him at every
    chance given. I wonder why that is.

    Him and I have fought some battles in the past and bear the scars to prove it. Museums of such battle-relics exist. And I respect an opponent who has made considerable contributions to Fidonet even though my mouth hurts when saying it. Not once when I approached him have I come home empty-handed.

    Bjorn is not an idiot, he's pretty intelligent and brilliant in his own way and I like people like that. There are others, take Michiel for instance ... we can have our differences but his intelligence must be recognized. In his statements Michiel is often right, and so is Bjorn.

    Years ago during one of the scenes of The Simpsons, Bart was writing on the blackboard "Being right sucks" ... the truth ... and the truth often hurts.

    Let me tell you something silly ... your ZC as free unlimited access to the Z2 sysop-echo, writing rights and everything. I think it's a great principle. When I request access to Z1C it can't be done because the consituency feels I defend Bjorn and that's unacceptable ... pathetic ... certainly when you realise these restricted echoes can be freely read on BBS-es.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 07:09:09 2022
    On 11 Aug 22 11:36:28, Ward Dossche said the following to Dan Clough:

    On the contrary, he's a frequent former USA-traveller and in a good positio to judge different systems. Even my 12yr old granddaughter who was with me

    Nobody here really gives a shit about the opinions of America from foreigners.

    Its the way that Bjorn and yourself to a certain extent - criticise America in a way that implies that American Sysops (A) Really give two shits about and/or (B) Are in some sort of position to overthrow the current political system for something else.

    And (C) It reads as if American Sysops are idiots that should all bow to the superior intellect/wisdom of those across the pond.

    The Z1C echo... man... *again* with this nonsense. I revoked my access this morning to Enet.Sysop. I'm finished with this nonstop shit about how I'm supposed to reciprocate.

    I don't have to do a fucking thing for anyone.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 11 08:08:00 2022
    Björn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
    insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?

    They pose no threat to the rest of the world. A fascist USA
    will.

    Yeah, right. China poses no threat to the rest of the world. Have you
    been living under a fucking rock for the last 3 years?

    Just like a movement in Germany a century ago, the
    neo-fascists in the USA are appealing to the lowest of human
    instincts, xenophobia and nationalism, spreading hatred against
    socialism and liberalism as well as scientists.

    The "neo-fascists" in the USA are a niche group, just like dozens of
    other niche fanatic groups, and are nothing to be concerned with. This country has always been anti-socialism, thank god, and will continue to
    be. Your hatred of Trump has contaminated your thinking. Perhaps it's
    your filtered news that you get over there, I don't know.

    A Nazi USA would make Nazi Germany seem like a North Korea in comparison. The world's only hope is that many enough of the US
    people can connect the dots and put a stop to the frightening
    development in the mighty USA and it's dream of world domination.

    HAR! I actually LOL'ed at that. The USA has no dream of world
    domination. See above where I mentioned China if you want to talk about
    world domination.

    That's in a nutshell why I am concerned about what has been
    taking place in the USA, that I used to love, in the last two
    decades.

    Your thinking is misguided, just as it often is by people who believe
    they know everything about a country that they don't even live in. The
    USA is alive and well; it's not perfect, but who would want it to be?
    Mind your own business over there and enjoy all the free shit you have.
    We will continue keeping you and the rest of the Euro-commies safe, just
    as we have done for 80 years or so.


    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 08:12:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Hi Dan,

    That wasn't my point, and you know it.

    Well, I'm not sure what your point is, but is the information
    which Bjorn passed around incorrect?

    The event simply is headlined in Europe, front page in newspapers
    kinda style ... gossiping about a girlfriend, snitching to the
    authorities and reporting someone indeed is what was being done
    in the DDR of old, and the USSR, and (I'm sorry Godwin) Nazi
    Germany.

    Facebook assisting the authorities in catching criminals I can
    live with, but you must be a pretty dumb criminal to use
    Messenger for illegal activities. In this case there's a
    frightened young girl who wants to walk away from something which
    spells 'disaster' for the remainder of her life and people like
    Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas et al have no business what goes on
    in a woman's belly. If only the female justices would be involved
    it would be 3-1 in favour of 'Roe vs Wade' ... and that says a
    lot.

    Yes, we are shocked by such decisions in a country which is
    supposed to be the beacon of freedom and democracy.

    We are also shocked that a governing body such as the US Supreme
    Court can be composed so unbalanced and is not ashamed to push
    through a political agenda. Even Americans are shocked. Last week
    I was in DC and the only building that was protected by
    riot-barriers and police was the Supreme Court ...

    How can it be that a body of 9 justices, whatever the majority,
    in 1973 decides that state laws banning abortion are
    unconstitutional and 49 years later decide that it "is"
    constitutional without a single letter in that constitution
    having been changed ... pure ridiculous ... party-political and
    religious driven in a country which prides itself of the
    separation between church and state.

    If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
    insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?

    I think he has, maybe not in echoes which you read.

    Yeah, that's right. There aren't any. That's because *HIS* point
    wasn't about human rights, either. It was just another cheap shot opportunity to poke at the USA. He's obsessed with finding fault with
    the USA, and you know it as well as I do.

    On the contrary, he's a frequent former USA-traveller and in a
    good position to judge different systems. Even my 12yr old
    granddaughter who was with me in DC wondered often aloud "Are
    they nuts in the USA?" and that was when we were talking about
    healthcare, retirement, education, LGBT-rights, abortion, privacy
    ... 12 years and unpolluted by life ...

    It sure is interesting how you feel the need to defend him at every
    chance given. I wonder why that is.

    Him and I have fought some battles in the past and bear the scars
    to prove it. Museums of such battle-relics exist. And I respect
    an opponent who has made considerable contributions to Fidonet
    even though my mouth hurts when saying it. Not once when I
    approached him have I come home empty-handed.

    Bjorn is not an idiot, he's pretty intelligent and brilliant in
    his own way and I like people like that. There are others, take
    Michiel for instance ... we can have our differences but his
    intelligence must be recognized. In his statements Michiel is
    often right, and so is Bjorn.

    Years ago during one of the scenes of The Simpsons, Bart was
    writing on the blackboard "Being right sucks" ... the truth ...
    and the truth often hurts.

    Let me tell you something silly ... your ZC as free unlimited
    access to the Z2 sysop-echo, writing rights and everything. I
    think it's a great principle. When I request access to Z1C it
    can't be done because the consituency feels I defend Bjorn and
    that's unacceptable ... pathetic ... certainly when you realise
    these restricted echoes can be freely read on BBS-es.

    Thank you for taking the time to write such a long reply to me. I do
    not have the time, nor the motivation, to attempt to address each point
    you made. I'll just say that if you don't live here, you don't *REALLY*
    know what's going on, and leave it at that. There is no need to worry
    about the USA, we've got it.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Thu Aug 11 08:32:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    On 11 Aug 22 11:36:28, Ward Dossche said the following to Dan
    Clough:

    On the contrary, he's a frequent former USA-traveller and in a good
    positio
    to judge different systems. Even my 12yr old granddaughter who was with me

    Nobody here really gives a shit about the opinions of America
    from foreigners.

    Its the way that Bjorn and yourself to a certain extent -
    criticise America in a way that implies that American Sysops (A)
    Really give two shits about and/or (B) Are in some sort of
    position to overthrow the current political system for something
    else.

    And (C) It reads as if American Sysops are idiots that should all
    bow to the superior intellect/wisdom of those across the pond.

    The Z1C echo... man... *again* with this nonsense. I revoked my
    access this morning to Enet.Sysop. I'm finished with this nonstop
    shit about how I'm supposed to reciprocate.

    I don't have to do a fucking thing for anyone.

    Maybe it's because they live in such tiny little insignificant
    countries, and are trying to "make up" for their inadequacies. Kinda
    like a small-penis huge lifted pickup truck, or the way a small dog acts
    like a tough guy. Regardless of the reasons, their pompous attitudes
    and holier-than-thou thinking is pretty irritating.



    ... The world is full of surprises, very few of which are pleasant.
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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 11 08:57:46 2022
    On 10 Aug 2022, Björn Felten said the following...

    Did you hear about the 17yo girl that was criminally charged with a horrendous crime after an *anonymous* tip. The tip led to a request from the prosecutor to get her private messages (DMs) from Facebook, and they were happy to oblige. This then led to further confiscating phones and laptops.

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the ground...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ

    :)

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... A book in the hand is worth two on the shelf!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 11 09:00:25 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Björn Felten said the following...

    Your lack of empathy with the poor girl is deafening. I guess your obsession with me is clouding your judgement.

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Confucius say: "Its stuffy inside fortune cookie"

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    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 10:21:05 2022
    On 11 Aug 22 08:32:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick Andre:

    Maybe it's because they live in such tiny little insignificant
    countries, and are trying to "make up" for their inadequacies. Kinda
    like a small-penis huge lifted pickup truck, or the way a small dog acts like a tough guy. Regardless of the reasons, their pompous attitudes
    and holier-than-thou thinking is pretty irritating.

    There used to be a few characters in this zone that would engage nonstop with them. The professional-troll Roy, mail movers/manipulators Ross, Bob Seaborn, Beavis and Butthead ala Tim and Wayne, etc... maybe others. It didn't help that my predecessor encouraged it and then some.

    All of them are gone now bit the anti-American echochamber remains, because really one person over there just can't get over himself. And gets a pass, a nice pat on the back from certain others, no matter how bad it looks when newcomers or returning Sysops look at it with disdain that "nothings changed".

    Nobody from this zone lectures European Sysops endlessly about their political systems non-stop, almost on a regular basis for 20+ years and anyone who started doing that would get a blast of shit from me privately for contributing to the prolonged death that is the end of Fido as it is now.

    We were never going to get a nice civil discussion with "Snitch Country" in
    the subject...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 11 18:22:16 2022
    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her
    mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in
    a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the ground...

    You forgot that they finally ate the now well done baby. With French fries, ketchup and mustard.



    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 11 10:40:54 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Björn Felten said the following...

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in th ground...

    You forgot that they finally ate the now well done baby. With French fries, ketchup and mustard.


    It does not change the facts

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... BREAKFAST.COM Halted... Cereal port not responding.

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    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 11 11:45:00 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Björn Felten <=-

    On 10 Aug 2022, Björn Felten said the following...

    Did you hear about the 17yo girl that was criminally charged with a horrendous crime after an *anonymous* tip. The tip led to a request from the prosecutor to get her private messages (DMs) from Facebook, and they were happy to oblige. This then led to further confiscating phones and laptops.

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and
    her mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby...
    put it in a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put
    it back in the ground...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ

    Well, well, well. Isn't that interesting. I guess that wasn't on your
    front page headlines over there in Euro-commie land, eh Beeorn?

    What say you now, Beeorn? Any change of tune now that some actual facts
    have come to light? You still think this "poor girl" did nothing wrong?
    How about the probability that her mother's boyfriend is the father of
    this murdered baby? Do you think maybe the fucking police were
    justified in (legally) acquiring evidence about what this insane family actually did?

    It wasn't a simple case of abortion. Stick that up your ass and smoke
    it, Beeorn.



    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 11 11:54:09 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Björn Felten:

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her mother

    aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the ground...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ

    Who is this Salty Cracker you are following? ;)

    She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.

    That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are doing.

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like
    hers.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... A Smith & Wesson *ALWAYS* beats 4 Aces.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 11 11:55:09 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Björn Felten:

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    No, you are using the wrong word. She had an abortion, that was a choice she made.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 12:50:03 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Dan Clough said the following...

    IB Joe wrote to Björn Felten <=-

    On 10 Aug 2022, Björn Felten said the following...

    Did you hear about the 17yo girl that was criminally charged with a horrendous crime after an *anonymous* tip. The tip led to a request f the prosecutor to get her private messages (DMs) from Facebook, and t were happy to oblige. This then led to further confiscating phones an laptops.

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and
    her mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby...
    put it in a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put
    it back in the ground...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ

    Well, well, well. Isn't that interesting. I guess that wasn't on your front page headlines over there in Euro-commie land, eh Beeorn?

    What say you now, Beeorn? Any change of tune now that some actual facts have come to light? You still think this "poor girl" did nothing wrong? How about the probability that her mother's boyfriend is the father of this murdered baby? Do you think maybe the fucking police were
    justified in (legally) acquiring evidence about what this insane family actually did?

    It wasn't a simple case of abortion. Stick that up your ass and smoke it, Beeorn.


    This all took place prior to Roe V Wade as well... there were several options for this girl, they chose the path they took.

    It was sick with what they did to the corpse after they did what they did.

    :(

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Everyone is entitled to my opinion!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 15:39:53 2022
    On 11 Aug 22 11:54:09, Alan Ianson said the following to Ib Joe:

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like hers.

    They already do. They can take a gamble with current birth control methods or for 100% effectiveness, keep their legs shut.

    That "healthy choice" being spoken of... well, I dunno about you but theres something extremely disturbing as a father to learn about this type of medical procedure or studying the first-hand account of what actually happens during that "healthy choice". It is far more graphic and invasive than any horror movie or novel a person could watch or read, and no woman is really left the same afterwards. Many women are psychologically scarred for life or affected emotionally in ways no man could ever understand. Not exactly "healthy"...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 15:14:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to IB Joe <=-

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the ground...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ

    Who is this Salty Cracker you are following? ;)

    I never heard of him either, but he does have 784K followers. :)

    She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.

    Which is an illegal act, even before the recent Roe V Wade change.

    That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are
    doing.

    Correct, they were investigating a crime.

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a
    situation like hers.

    She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
    keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    Instead she broke the law and murdered a baby. Hopefully she (and the
    others involved) get some jail time for it.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Nick Andre on Thu Aug 11 13:29:16 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Alan Ianson:

    On 11 Aug 22 11:54:09, Alan Ianson said the following to Ib Joe:

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like hers.

    They already do. They can take a gamble with current birth control methods

    or for 100% effectiveness, keep their legs shut.

    Humans are sexual animals. They just are. They have sex because they are programmed that way.

    That "healthy choice" being spoken of... well, I dunno about you but theres something extremely disturbing as a father to learn about this type of medical procedure or studying the first-hand account of what actually happens during that "healthy choice". It is far more graphic and invasive than any horror movie or novel a person could watch or read, and no woman is really left the same afterwards. Many women are psychologically scarred for life or affected emotionally in ways no man could ever understand. Not exactly "healthy"...

    It doesn't sound to me like this girl made a healthy choice but I have no
    idea about the back story, where and how she became pregnant to begin with
    or whether she had a partner she could rely on to help and support her if
    she choose to have the baby.

    I do think it is a womans choice if she becomes pregnant what she does next. There are so many factors that need to be considered in each case and I
    have none of those details.

    I think women have a right to advice and healthy choices although that may
    not be the case everywhere.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... An Elephant; A Mouse built to government specifications.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 13:55:02 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Who is this Salty Cracker you are following? ;)

    I never heard of him either, but he does have 784K followers. :)

    Looks like good entertainment.. or something.

    She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.

    Which is an illegal act, even before the recent Roe V Wade change.

    Yes, that what they keep telling me.

    That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are
    doing.

    Correct, they were investigating a crime.

    If facebook can divulge this young ladies private messages with her mother
    (or anyone else) they can divulge mine and yours too. I have a problem with that and it has nothing to do with a womans choice (or lack thereof).

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a
    situation like hers.

    She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
    keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    That much is obvious. People have babies all the time.

    You and me both are here because someone had a baby.

    There is no need for senators, congressmen or law makers. People can do this and they do it all the time.

    Instead she broke the law and murdered a baby. Hopefully she (and the others involved) get some jail time for it.

    She did not murder a baby, she had an abortion. That was a choice she made
    for herself. I don't think that makes her a murderer.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Keyboard? How quaint!" - Scotty

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Matt Munson@1:218/109 to Björn Felten on Wed Aug 10 21:57:24 2022
    BY: Björn Felten(2:203/2)


    Now then, where does this poor girl live? In Russia, China or North Korea? Nope! She lives in Nebraska USA. And her horrendous crime was
    that she had taken an abortion pill three weeks after the "legal" 20 weeks...
    I know some women are going to take it, only thing id like to see is them getting medical moinitoring from their local medical professionals, so no complications happen.


    --- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
    * Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 23:22:36 2022
    Alan,

    You and me both are here because someone had a baby.

    So aliens play no role?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 11 23:50:22 2022
    Joe,

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    Hmmmm ...

    1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes. Up until that
    moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;

    2) The foetus was aborted, you cannot murder a foetus;

    3) Granted, it was in a very late stage I read. In this coutry 20 months is
    the cut-off date. After that one needs a very good medical reason;

    4) If they wanted to go through with this, it could have happened at an
    earlier moment. So why did it take so much time? ... I don't know.

    That's the medical / legal approach and the latter sucks in a country where judges can be elected and also be political appointees.

    The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.

    That's not so unrealistic ... I think.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 23:53:12 2022
    Dan,

    She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
    keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    Whatever happens to the female's body after she gets pregnant, is totally up to the female, not to a group of grumpy old men and religious nut-cases who were not appointed because of their medical knowledge but because of their political record in handling cases.

    The law is the law, and it doesn't matter if a judge is left right or center leaning.

    And Clarence Thomas should never have become a justice at the supreme court in the first place. He was picked because of his colour and his conservative record, should've kept his hands off of Anita Hill, didn't even recluse himself ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 17:51:23 2022
    On 11 Aug 22 13:29:16, Alan Ianson said the following to Nick Andre:

    Humans are sexual animals. They just are. They have sex because they are programmed that way.

    Absolving any and all personal responsibility?

    I think women have a right to advice and healthy choices although that may not be the case everywhere.

    Fine with me. Read exactly what happens during an abortion procedure and come back to me with your take on how healthy it is. "Look it up" you used to say.

    And Facebook spilling personal messages..... PPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

    People "know" or should know what they're in for when they sign up with a company with a sole business to harvest personal data. No sympathy at all. Actually a fine example of that "untrustworthy American capitalism" certain morons love to whine about.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 15:18:06 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson:

    You and me both are here because someone had a baby.

    So aliens play no role?

    Not in my case.

    Did they.. ;)

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Suicide Hotline...please hold."

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Nick Andre on Thu Aug 11 15:25:52 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Humans are sexual animals. They just are. They have sex because they are programmed that way.

    Absolving any and all personal responsibility?

    Absolutely not.

    I think women have a right to advice and healthy choices although that

    may not be the case everywhere.

    Fine with me. Read exactly what happens during an abortion procedure and come back to me with your take on how healthy it is. "Look it up" you
    used to say.

    This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with unsafe choices.

    And Facebook spilling personal messages..... PPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

    People "know" or should know what they're in for when they sign up with a company with a sole business to harvest personal data. No sympathy at all. Actually a fine example of that "untrustworthy American capitalism" certain morons love to whine about.

    I agree with that wholly.

    Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should divulge a persons private messages.

    There could be good reasons to do that in some cases but I don't see that
    here.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... (A)bort, (R)etry, (P)retend this never happened...

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 16:50:35 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    Who is this Salty Cracker you are following? ;)

    She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.

    That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are doing.

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like hers.


    Salty is just a YouTuber... Just can't seem to get seem to get a regular journalist to pony up....

    Where things went off is that they performed their own abortion and set the feuds afire.... and somethings like that. This was prior to Roe getting overturned ... Her mother should have drove her to a state that do late term abortion and or infanticide... There were legal and safe ways of doing things... They chose the messed up way.

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... We all live in a yellow subroutine...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 16:56:39 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    IB Joe wrote to Björn Felten:

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    No, you are using the wrong word. She had an abortion, that was a choice she made.

    No Abortion is legal in the US, even after the Supreme court kicked it back to the states.... What they did was illegal... It's not a pro-life pro-choice thing.... Some states will abort a baby post birth... New Jersey boasts this postnatal abortions...

    What they did was break the law and they are paying the price. There were ways to handle this, in a lawful way, they chose not to...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Condense soup, not books!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 17:06:44 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Ward Dossche said the following...

    Joe,

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    Hmmmm ...

    1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes. Up until that moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;

    2) The foetus was aborted, you cannot murder a foetus;

    3) Granted, it was in a very late stage I read. In this coutry 20 months is the cut-off date. After that one needs a very good medical reason;

    4) If they wanted to go through with this, it could have happened at an
    earlier moment. So why did it take so much time? ... I don't know.

    That's the medical / legal approach and the latter sucks in a country where judges can be elected and also be political appointees.

    The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.

    That's not so unrealistic ... I think.

    \%/@rd

    Ward, I see that you are not from the US so you might not understand full what has happened here.... Currently the Supreme Court has overturned an almost 50 year decision on abortion...

    What that means is that each State and the people of these states will make their own minds up on how to handle the abortion issue.

    So, theoretically there can be 50 different ways to handle the issue. There maybe states that outlaw it completely, and there are, and there maybe states who will perform infanticide... and there are...

    If their state had a 20 week cutoff there are other things the could have done... drove a couple hours... or the Governor of California was willing to pay for your trip and pay for the abortion.... All legal all safe...

    They chose to burn a baby's corps ...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... A PC a day keeps the Apple away!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 16:25:13 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Hi Dan,

    That wasn't my point, and you know it.

    Well, I'm not sure what your point is, but is the information which
    Bjorn passed around incorrect?

    He didn't include a link, so how would we know?

    The event simply is headlined in Europe, front page in newspapers kinda style ... gossiping about a girlfriend, snitching to the authorities
    and reporting someone indeed is what was being done in the DDR of old,
    and the USSR, and (I'm sorry Godwin) Nazi Germany.

    A lot of people who break the law are found out because someone else turns
    them in (that happens everywhere) or because they post something they
    should not on social media (I would be shocked if that only happens here),
    or they do something stupid that implicates themselves.

    Saying those things only happen in authoritarian countries is a fantasy.

    Now, do I agree with what she got in trouble for (if she did exactly what
    Bjorn claims)? No, I don't. Thing is, you can blame that on the current SCOTUS but the fact of the matter is the side that has been claiming that they are for defending women's rights had somewhere between 6-12 years since 1973 where they held the Presidency and they held enough of a Congressional majority that they could have made it law. Instead, they probably wasted time on pork projects while relying on an apparently flimsy Supreme Court interpretation
    of the Right to Due Process to do their job for them.

    It was a lot easier for them that way, and they could trot out every 2 years the possibility that the other side might turn over the flimsy ruling, or pass some law that restricted rights, so you'd better vote for us!



    ... Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nick Andre on Thu Aug 11 16:27:11 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    All of them are gone now bit the anti-American echochamber remains, because really one person over there just can't get over himself. And
    gets a pass, a nice pat on the back from certain others, no matter how
    bad it looks when newcomers or returning Sysops look at it with disdain that "nothings changed".

    I'd make that two people... you've got a fellow countryman that only shows
    up any more to complain about Trump or something else bad "we" are doing, but will disappear as soon as someone points out what Trudeau has been up to.



    ... Pass the tequila, Manuel...
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 11 16:30:37 2022
    I note that you posted the original message in this thread without a link.

    Björn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    They pose no threat to the rest of the world. A fascist USA will.

    Just like a movement in Germany a century ago, the neo-fascists in
    the USA are appealing to the lowest of human instincts, xenophobia and nationalism, spreading hatred against socialism and liberalism as well
    as scientists.

    A Nazi USA would make Nazi Germany seem like a North Korea in comparison. The world's only hope is that many enough of the US people
    can connect the dots and put a stop to the frightening development in
    the mighty USA and it's dream of world domination.

    So I guess once we go Nazi, Sweden will claim to be neutral while secretly helping us out, just like they did for the WWII Nazis, and will only abandon their (not really) neutrality once it becomes obvious that the Nazi USA will lose?

    ... Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to IB Joe on Fri Aug 12 01:27:18 2022
    Joe,

    Ward, I see that you are not from the US so you might not understand full what has happened here....

    But I do.

    I fully understand that abortion has not been outlawed and the issue has returned to the States pending possible legal action with a federal law.

    On top of that, I've lived about 7 years of my life in the USA, most of that Montana and Wyoming. I have taken the naturalization test with a perfect score and had a job lined-up at Washington State University in Pullman WA. The problem in 1976 was that the US authorities only admitted South Vietnamese refugees at that time and by the time my number came up the employment had gone the way of the Dodo-bird..

    I think I've traveled more in the USA than 95% of its citizens, been to more places, done more things.

    You know, I'm pretty well versed on how things function in the USA.

    But thank you for trying to educate me ... appreciated.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 18:31:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.

    Which is an illegal act, even before the recent Roe V Wade change.

    Yes, that what they keep telling me.

    When will you begin to understand it? She broke the law.

    That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are doing.

    Correct, they were investigating a crime.

    If facebook can divulge this young ladies private messages with
    her mother (or anyone else) they can divulge mine and yours too.
    I have a problem with that and it has nothing to do with a womans
    choice (or lack thereof).

    Yes, they could divulge mine and yours, *IF* we were being investigated
    for suspicion of having committed a crime. Do you not understand the difference here?

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a
    situation like hers.

    She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
    keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    That much is obvious. People have babies all the time.
    You and me both are here because someone had a baby.
    There is no need for senators, congressmen or law makers. People
    can do this and they do it all the time.

    All of the above is irrelevant, and you did not address what I said *AT* *ALL*. Want to try again? Do you see that she had at least two good
    options, but chose something else?

    Instead she broke the law and murdered a baby. Hopefully she (and the others involved) get some jail time for it.

    She did not murder a baby, she had an abortion. That was a choice
    she made for herself. I don't think that makes her a murderer.

    What you think doesn't matter. It's what the law says. After 20 weeks
    (and in some states it's 15 weeks), it's no longer a "fetus", it's a
    *BABY*. She murdered a baby, it's that simple. Law enforcement had the warrants needed to get Facebook to give up information that they felt
    was evidence of a crime. What don't you understand about this?

    This is *NOT* a question on what someone (you) (or me) may believe about "abortion rights". This is an investigation into a probable crime.
    Please try to understand the difference between that and your personal opinions.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 18:36:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    She had at least TWO choices and healthy options - have the baby (and
    keep it), or have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    Whatever happens to the female's body after she gets pregnant, is
    totally up to the female, not to a group of grumpy old men and
    religious nut-cases who were not appointed because of their
    medical knowledge but because of their political record in
    handling cases.

    Thanks for sharing your *OPINION*. It does not match up against current
    USA law, no matter how much you wring your hands and stomp the floor.

    The law is the law, and it doesn't matter if a judge is left
    right or center leaning.

    Well, there you go! You do understand! Makes your statement above all
    the more curious, though... This young lady BROKE THE FUCKING LAW.

    And Clarence Thomas should never have become a justice at the
    supreme court in the first place. He was picked because of his
    colour and his conservative record, should've kept his hands off
    of Anita Hill, didn't even recluse himself ...

    This paragraph is *COMPLETELY* irrelevant to the discussion, and again
    is just your opinion. "Should never have become..." means... nothing.
    What it actually is, is you starting/attempting to divert the discussion
    at hand away from the fact that a young lady broke the law and is being investigated/prosecuted for it, and swing it into a debate about the USA Supreme Court. Sorry, very transparent and seems more like something
    that Beeorn would do. Try to focus and stay with us.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 18:47:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to IB Joe <=-

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes.
    Up until that
    moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;

    That's somewhat of a blurry line, which is clearly debateable.

    3) Granted, it was in a very late stage I read. In this coutry 20
    months is
    the cut-off date. After that one needs a very good medical
    reason;

    Assuming you meant "weeks" there, and it's generally the same here. No abortions after 20 weeks. So, again, a crime was committed.

    The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with
    privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.

    Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.



    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 18:50:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Nick Andre <=-

    Fine with me. Read exactly what happens during an abortion procedure and come back to me with your take on how healthy it is. "Look it up" you
    used to say.

    This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and
    healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with
    unsafe choices.

    You keep forgetting that they ALWAYS have a safe choice: Have the baby
    and give it up for adoption.

    And Facebook spilling personal messages..... PPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

    People "know" or should know what they're in for when they sign up with a company with a sole business to harvest personal data. No sympathy at all. Actually a fine example of that "untrustworthy American capitalism" certain morons love to whine about.

    I agree with that wholly.

    Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should
    divulge a persons private messages.

    Even when served with a valid warrant/subpoena by law enforcement to do
    so? What other actual choice would they have?


    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alexander Grotewohl@1:120/616 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 20:09:47 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    She did not murder a baby, she had an abortion. That was a choice she
    made for herself. I don't think that makes her a murderer.

    "I don't think" is the most important part of your post. This is an ethical and moral question.

    I think it sounds like you're morally bankrupt given your last few posts here. There's potentially room for debate, but blind support for everyone who has an abortion, even one done illegally and gruesomely, is pretty messed up.

    ... A book misplaced is a book lost

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 11 17:05:37 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Salty is just a YouTuber... Just can't seem to get seem to get a regular journalist to pony up....

    Yeah. Maybe there is no story.

    This was prior to Roe getting overturned ... Her mother should have
    drove her to a state that do late term abortion and or infanticide...

    Before you start throwing around words like infanacide around you should
    learn what they mean. Someone might mistake you for a republican.

    There were legal and safe ways of doing things... They chose the
    messed up way.

    Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country for medical care.

    Every person (man or woman) should be able to get quality medical care in
    their state.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Mike Powell on Thu Aug 11 17:08:03 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Well, I'm not sure what your point is, but is the information which Bjorn passed around incorrect?

    He didn't include a link, so how would we know?

    Uh.. yeah.. He did. ;)

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alexander Grotewohl@1:120/616 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 11 20:15:16 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Ward Dossche said the following...

    1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes. Up until that moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;

    you're taking a scientific fact and trying to rush an opinion through with it.

    2) The foetus was aborted, you cannot murder a foetus;

    see above

    ... Next time you wave at me, use more than one finger!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Powell on Fri Aug 12 02:07:27 2022
    Mike,

    ... and will only abandon
    their (not really) neutrality once it becomes obvious that the Nazi USA will lose?

    You may have missed it, but Sweden actually gave up its neutrality in view of the war in Ukraine which some people are not calling a war...They applied for NATO membership.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 02:11:01 2022
    Dan,

    Thanks for sharing your *OPINION*. It does not match up against current USA law, no matter how much you wring your hands and stomp the floor.

    The Supreme Court recently decided, majority versus minority, that there is "NO" USA law covering abortion.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 02:27:06 2022
    Dan,

    1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes.
    Up until that
    moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;

    That's somewhat of a blurry line, which is clearly debateable.

    Not at all. My youngest daughter is a delivery nurse and she put in over 2 years of neo-natal care, I first checked before writing the above. Younger than 24 weeks a fetus is not viable and if it even survives childbirth will not make it. Starting at 24 full weeks there's a lower odds fighting chance. I've seen my daughter come home often enough when they again lost a fetus younger than 24 weeks. Pretty emotional. And my other daughter lost one at 22 weeks, probably induced by Covid19 in 2020 the same day I was hospitalized.

    Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.

    This is going to be an interesting lawsuit.

    The subpoena/warrant will be thrown out as it was issued in Nebraska to retrieve data stored in a data-warehouse in California where no law was broken...remember, the SCOTUS turned it over to the states.

    I will already start writing my "Told you so" message ... hopefully I'll remember where I stored it.

    Stay safe, enjoy the week-end.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 17:39:41 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with
    unsafe choices.

    You keep forgetting that they ALWAYS have a safe choice: Have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    I have not forgotten. Yes, I agree those are good options but they may not
    be feasible in every case.

    Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should divulge a persons private messages.

    Even when served with a valid warrant/subpoena by law enforcement to do so? What other actual choice would they have?

    If facebook did get a warrant/subpoena from the authorities then facebook
    had no choice in the matter.

    I don't think a warrant/subpeona was justified in this case, or it's use justified.

    Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is that normal?
    Is that acceptable?

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Alexander Grotewohl on Thu Aug 11 17:44:58 2022
    Alexander Grotewohl wrote to Alan Ianson:

    She did not murder a baby, she had an abortion. That was a choice she made for herself. I don't think that makes her a murderer.

    "I don't think" is the most important part of your post. This is an ethical and moral question.

    It's hardly important. I am just sharing my thoughts.

    I think it sounds like you're morally bankrupt given your last few posts here.

    What is it that you find "morally bankrupt"?

    There's potentially room for debate, but blind support for everyone
    who has an abortion, even one done illegally and gruesomely, is pretty messed up.

    I don't blindly support abortion. I don't care for it at all but I recognize
    a womans right to make her own choice based on her situation.

    It doesn't sound to me like the young lady we are talking about has been
    making wise choices but I don't know the story/facts so I can make no judgement.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 11 21:57:02 2022
    On 11 Aug 22 18:47:00, Dan Clough said the following to Ward Dossche:

    The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with
    privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.

    Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.

    Me neither. Sign up for any social media, you accept all their terms, accept consequences, accept chances of them being hacked, leaking messages, folding witout question the moment someone from law enforcement flashes their badge, the whole noise over the Patriot Act, Prism, Snowden etc...

    Its exhausting hearing about how we're all to feel sorry for Darwin behavior.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 11 22:18:33 2022
    On 11 Aug 22 17:39:41, Alan Ianson said the following to Dan Clough:

    Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is that normal Is that acceptable?

    Its been normal since the Patriot Act and Prism.

    And not surprising to those of us intelligent enough to obey the law, keep a somewhat low Internet footprint and not open accounts with or put blind faith in huge companies that solely exist to profit by harvesting personal data.

    If one doesn't want trouble... one shouldn't go looking for it.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Nick Andre on Thu Aug 11 19:56:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Alan Ianson:

    On 11 Aug 22 17:39:41, Alan Ianson said the following to Dan Clough:

    Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is that
    normal? Is that acceptable?

    Its been normal since the Patriot Act and Prism.

    The patriot act and the prism program are all about terrorism, not
    abortions. Did the NSA or the prism program play a role here?

    If one doesn't want trouble... one shouldn't go looking for it.

    People who send private message to someone are not looking for trouble.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Build a watch in 179 easy steps" by C. Forsberg.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 10:26:28 2022
    Alan,

    Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is that normal?
    Is that acceptable?

    Talking from the European perspective here ... I had a managerial job with a telecom operator. By law we were required to keep a log of 'phone calls' over a period of 30 years. Just "who" called "whom" from "when" until "when".

    As for emails there also is a legal requirement to keep an archive of full messages and attachments but the sheer size of that storage-capacity is mind blowing. I do not recall the number of years it had to be stored.

    In view of the laws, FacebookMessenger is just another form of email. Such is Whatsapp. Everything is stored, youngsters think that Snapchat messages are destroyed like after 10 seconds of what ... think again ...

    In the case of my company all that was managed by an Israeli security company, they're good at such things.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Aug 12 10:57:44 2022
    MvdV> I share your concerns. Add to that that Trump may win again in 2024 and
    MvdV> it scares the shit out of me. :(

    Well, it seems that the good guys are getting ahead of the bad guys.

    Some background information to those who still don't understand how important the present struggle in the USA is, including of course all the MAGA idiot fascists:

    The US LEA raided Trump's "home" because they were convinced that there would still be sensitive documents, removed from the White House there. They had already been given 15 boxes of documents *illegally* moved to Florida, but after analysing those, found out that there must be more there. I repeat, highly classified documents.

    Now, the only one that revealed this secret (to protect the integrity of the person still not convicted of a crime) raid was... tada... the victim himself.

    And now on to Merrick Garland. To keep this short I will not tell you the outrageous story about how the US fascists managed to keep him from becoming a nominee for the SCOTUS, just to tell you what a brilliant strategist he is. He fired a bullet and then went silent for 48 hours, just waiting to see from where all the return fire came.

    So now, everyone can see who all the fascists, trying to overturn the US government, are. Absolutely brilliant, if you never clicked on a Youtube video link before, I urge you to make an exception for this one:

    https://youtu.be/LM5H9vlH31s


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 08:44:39 2022
    On 11 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    Before you start throwing around words like infanacide around you should learn what they mean. Someone might mistake you for a republican.

    I am a Republican, just voted in the Florida primaries. Infanticide is the killing of babies....

    "The act of killing an infant.The practice of
    killing newborn infants.One who kills an infant."

    This is what the commies at Google had to say on the topic...

    There are/were several states that would allow an abortion up to an including the moment of birth. California, New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Alaska, Colorado, Oregon, Vermont and Washington DC.

    Up-to the moment of birth. New Jersey brags about post birth abortions... I am not clear as to how they do this... but they brag about it none the less.

    At some point that clump of cells becomes a person... Where is that??? When is that?? In the US there is a high percentage of people that support abortion... that percentage drops dramatically when it come to allowing unfeathered access to abortion...


    Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country for medical care.


    Well, The governor of California said he'd pay for everything... take him up on the offer. The the case we are talking about the young lady had 5 months to make her mind up... 5 months.... That's a long time to get things done legally, healthy and correctly. She went with a self-induced abortion and burning the evidence... She had a long time to do things right... and she had alternatives even after the 5 months.


    Every person (man or woman) should be able to get quality medical care in their state.


    Again... States politics are a little different than Canada. The
    constitution protects the individual and state from federal over reach... Abortions, now, are decided buy the people in each state... Some states may restrict your access... like to the first trimester.... others, like the 8 I mentioned will let you have at it...

    This is the beauty of it... If you think your state doesn't represent your views vote someone in that will represent your views or move to a new state....

    There are rumblings that lefties are thinking of cruse ships... where they'll take you away and you can get a pedicure, manicure and an abortion all in international waters...

    They'll find away to bring the abortion mills back... they are just a transitional period

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Bjrn Felten on Fri Aug 12 15:53:50 2022
    Hello Bjrn!

    Friday August 12 2022 10:57, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    MvdV>> I share your concerns. Add to that that Trump may win again in
    MvdV>> 2024 and it scares the shit out of me. :(

    Well, it seems that the good guys are getting ahead of the bad
    guys.

    Some background information to those who still don't understand how important the present struggle in the USA is, including of course all
    the MAGA idiot fascists:

    The US LEA raided Trump's "home" because they were convinced that
    there would still be sensitive documents, removed from the White House there. They had already been given 15 boxes of documents *illegally*
    moved to Florida, but after analysing those, found out that there must
    be more there. I repeat, highly classified documents.

    ...

    Funny I thought it was the FBI.


    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v8 X64/Mbse v1.0.8/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 07:34:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Thanks for sharing your *OPINION*. It does not match up against current USA law, no matter how much you wring your hands and stomp the floor.

    The Supreme Court recently decided, majority versus minority,
    that there is "NO" USA law covering abortion.

    Well, yes, there is no federal law supporting abortion any longer, and therefore each state has discretion on whether to allow it or not.

    Thanks for the clarification.



    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 07:36:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    1) Foetuses are viable somewhere after the 24th week completes.
    Up until that
    moment it isn't a live person, hence cannot be murdered;

    That's somewhat of a blurry line, which is clearly debateable.

    Not at all. My youngest daughter is a delivery nurse and she put
    in over 2 years of neo-natal care, I first checked before writing
    the above. Younger than 24 weeks a fetus is not viable and if it
    even survives childbirth will not make it. Starting at 24 full
    weeks there's a lower odds fighting chance. I've seen my daughter
    come home often enough when they again lost a fetus younger than
    24 weeks. Pretty emotional. And my other daughter lost one at 22
    weeks, probably induced by Covid19 in 2020 the same day I was hospitalized.

    Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.

    This is going to be an interesting lawsuit.

    The subpoena/warrant will be thrown out as it was issued in
    Nebraska to retrieve data stored in a data-warehouse in
    California where no law was broken...remember, the SCOTUS turned
    it over to the states.

    I will already start writing my "Told you so" message ...
    hopefully I'll remember where I stored it.

    Oh! Okay! I didn't realize you were a doctor *AND* a lawyer.
    Impressive.

    Stay safe, enjoy the week-end.

    Thanks, you too.



    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 07:46:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    This is why abortion should not be illegal. Women need advice and healthy choices. If abortion is illegal women are left with
    unsafe choices.

    You keep forgetting that they ALWAYS have a safe choice: Have the baby and give it up for adoption.

    I have not forgotten. Yes, I agree those are good options but
    they may not be feasible in every case.

    It's nearly always feasible. It may not be *desireable* to the pregnant woman, but it's still better than killing a baby.

    Still, I don't think facebook or other social media sites should divulge a persons private messages.

    Even when served with a valid warrant/subpoena by law enforcement to do so? What other actual choice would they have?

    If facebook did get a warrant/subpoena from the authorities then
    facebook had no choice in the matter.

    Exactly...

    I don't think a warrant/subpeona was justified in this case, or
    it's use justified.

    You can't possibly say that, as you know NOTHING about the details of
    the case. Warrants are issued by a judge after being presented by law enforcement. So, a JUDGE thought there was sufficient reason for
    Facebook to give up some records. Your opinion on this doesn't matter,
    it's a matter of *LAW*.

    Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is
    that normal? Is that acceptable?

    I don't know. Perhaps it's like BBS logs. Maybe they're required to be
    kept. I don't know, and neither do you. I'm positive that every FB
    user agreed to that when they signed up, whether they realized it or
    not.

    The only people "at fault" here are the 2-3 people who apparently used FB/Messenger to discuss the killing of a baby.



    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 09:21:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to IB Joe <=-

    There were legal and safe ways of doing things... They chose the
    messed up way.

    Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country
    for medical care.

    That's what everyone says, but I think in the REAL WORLD a person can
    find a way to get across a state line. It's really not that hard.

    Every person (man or woman) should be able to get quality medical
    care in their state.

    Sounds like a nice idea in theory, but "should" is a difficult word to
    define. It's not an actual *right*, like many people somehow believe.
    Maybe one day it will be a reality.



    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Fri Aug 12 09:30:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    The real issue here for me is how Facebook / Meta deals with
    privacy ... divulges private messages between two individuals.

    Easily answered: They do it when legally ordered to by a valid warrant/subpoena by a law enforcement agency. Quite simple, really. I honestly can't understand how people don't grasp this.

    Me neither. Sign up for any social media, you accept all their
    terms, accept consequences, accept chances of them being hacked,
    leaking messages, folding witout question the moment someone from
    law enforcement flashes their badge, the whole noise over the
    Patriot Act, Prism, Snowden etc...

    Absolutely right. Nobody ever reads the "terms of agreement", but all
    that acceptance stuff is in there.

    Its exhausting hearing about how we're all to feel sorry for
    Darwin behavior.

    Agreed. It's all part of the "woke" culture bullshit.


    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alexander Grotewohl@1:120/616 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 12:05:52 2022
    On 12 Aug 2022, Dan Clough said the following...

    The only people "at fault" here are the 2-3 people who apparently used FB/Messenger to discuss the killing of a baby.

    there used to be a nice document of bbs related laws. one that is common that they can tack on is "using a computer to commit a crime" which nowadays applies to the internet.. though i bet the judge would strike it off in non-hacking/pirating cases.

    ... Shortcut: longest distance between two points

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Vincent Coen on Fri Aug 12 18:53:24 2022
    Vince,

    The US LEA raided Trump's "home" because they were convinced that

    Funny I thought it was the FBI.

    And the FBI is not a LEA? (Law Enforcement Agency)

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 18:57:29 2022
    Dan,

    Oh! Okay! I didn't realize you were a doctor *AND* a lawyer.
    Impressive.

    I will never start legal proceedings if I can't win ... a lawyer on the other hand needs to make a living ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Rob Swindell to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 10:06:37 2022
    Re: Re: Snitch Country
    By: Dan Clough to Björn Felten on Wed Aug 10 2022 06:45 pm

    You're pathetic. Fuck off, loser.

    Wow, that was an extreme response.
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 21:11:14 2022
    Hello Alan,

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    No, you are using the wrong word. She had an abortion, that was a choice she
    made.

    Miscarriage, abortion, infanticide, what difference does it make?
    It all amounts to same thing. And since it was caused by a woman,
    that makes it an act of murder. Punishable by life in prison ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If PBS won't do it, who will?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 21:11:20 2022
    Hello Alan,

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and her
    mother

    aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby... put it in a
    grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back in the
    ground...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P0QRXth_bQ

    Who is this Salty Cracker you are following? ;)

    She did abort her baby at 23 weeks. That's one thing.

    That doesn't change what the authorities (and facebook) are doing.

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like hers.

    And if they don't?

    What about that 10-year-old girl who had to cross state lines
    in order to get a legal abortion from a real doctor? She was raped
    at age 9 and would have been forced to carry to term otherwise,
    meaning her own death at a very young age (as well as the unborn).

    How sick of a society have we become, to force young girls to
    die rather than have access to quality health care that would save
    their lives?

    Freedom in America? Freedom to die more like it.

    OTOH, all of us are granted that freedom no matter where we live.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    We! Reject! The president-nonelect!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to IB Joe on Fri Aug 12 21:11:26 2022
    Hello IB Joe,

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and
    her
    mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby...
    put it
    a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put it back
    in th
    ground...

    You forgot that they finally ate the now well done baby. With
    French
    fries, ketchup and mustard.


    It does not change the facts

    Facts? What are facts? There are no facts ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Pay your taxes!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to IB Joe on Fri Aug 12 21:11:33 2022
    Hello IB Joe,

    Your lack of empathy with the poor girl is deafening. I guess your
    obsession with me is clouding your judgement.

    She murdered a baby... tried to conceal what she did....

    According to a previous message you claimed she had an abortion.
    Now you are claiming she "murdered a baby" - which would be
    infanticide. So which is it?
    And did she really dig it up and roast it, as if she was a cannibal?
    Of course, she had to have done this all by herself, and put it online
    for all to see, becoming an instant star on YouTube ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    NO MASKS REQUIRED. THIS IS A NO-FEAR ZONE.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 21:11:38 2022
    Hello Dan,

    [..]

    Thank you for taking the time to write such a long reply to me. I do
    not have the time, nor the motivation, to attempt to address each point you made. I'll just say that if you don't live here, you don't *REALLY* know what's going on, and leave it at that. There is no need to worry about the USA, we've got it.

    Those who live here do not really know what is going on.
    I say this in all honesty and sincerity.
    But then, I live in Louisiana.
    Don't believe me?

    State tourism motto: Come to Louisiana. Leave different.

    Yep. You do that and I guarantee Dan Clough will no no longer exist,
    having become something very different than what he was before.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Muslim rights are human rights!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 21:11:43 2022
    Hello Ward,

    That wasn't my point, and you know it.

    Well, I'm not sure what your point is, but is the information which Bjorn passed around incorrect?

    Yes, and no. Every country in the world has some skeletons. However,
    some countries are more free than others. Sweden is on the more free
    side of things.

    The event simply is headlined in Europe, front page in newspapers kinda style ... gossiping about a girlfriend, snitching to the authorities and reporting someone indeed is what was being done in the DDR of old, and the USSR, and (I'm sorry Godwin) Nazi Germany.

    Trump's vision of America is a return to the "America First" philosophy
    of Charles Lindbergh & Co. An isolationist white supremacist country
    intent on doing away with the idea of minorities having any kind of
    civil rights or equal rights - economically or politically.

    Facebook assisting the authorities in catching criminals I can live with, but you must be a pretty dumb criminal to use Messenger for illegal activities. In this case there's a frightened young girl who wants to walk away from something which spells 'disaster' for the remainder of her life and people like Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas et al have no business what goes on in a woman's belly. If only the female justices would be involved it would be 3-1 in favour of 'Roe vs Wade' .. and that says a lot.

    Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" was a vision of a dystopian
    future that everybody understood as fiction. But could become an evil
    reality that people accept in a not to distant future.

    Yes, we are shocked by such decisions in a country which is supposed to be the beacon of freedom and democracy.

    What is freedom? And what is democracy if freedom exists only for
    those who have been approved to participate?

    We are also shocked that a governing body such as the US Supreme Court can be composed so unbalanced and is not ashamed to push through a political agenda. Even Americans are shocked. Last week I was in DC and the only building that was protected by riot-barriers and police was the Supreme Court ...

    Tyranny of the minority (dictatorship), or tyranny of the majority
    (mob rule)? Which would you prefer? Do any of us really have a choice?

    How can it be that a body of 9 justices, whatever the majority, in 1973 decides that state laws banning abortion are unconstitutional and 49 years later decide that it "is" constitutional without a single letter in that constitution having been changed ...

    The US Constitution has been amended - 27 times - since 1789. Of
    course, sometimes those amendments do take a good while to be ratified,
    such as the 27th Amendment, originally proposed September 25, 1789
    and ratified May 7, 1992.

    pure ridiculous ...

    Is it? There have been 40,000+ attempts to amend the US Constitution,
    and only 27 successful amendments being ratified, since 1791.

    What is your country's batting average?

    party-political and religious driven in a country which prides itself of the
    separation between church and state.

    Just because no religious test is required to hold office does not
    mean there is separation between church and state, the USA being a
    Christian nation, as noted by those who signed the US Constitution
    by unaminomous consent on 17 September in the Year of our Lord 1787.

    If he's so concerned about human rights, where are his messages
    insulting China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc etc etc...?

    I think he has, maybe not in echoes which you read.

    There are many fine restaurants here, representing many lands, but
    none that I know of that serve fermented herring.

    Yeah, that's right. There aren't any. That's because *HIS* point
    wasn't about human rights, either. It was just another cheap shot
    opportunity to poke at the USA. He's obsessed with finding fault with
    the USA, and you know it as well as I do.

    On the contrary, he's a frequent former USA-traveller and in a good position
    to judge different systems. Even my 12yr old granddaughter who was with me in DC wondered often aloud "Are they nuts in the USA?" and that was when we
    were talking about healthcare, retirement, education, LGBT-rights, abortion, privacy ... 12 years and unpolluted by life ...

    Here in Louisiana we used to have a universal health care system.
    Everybody resident was eligible, and had access to quality health
    care as a result. But then came a governor (Bobby "Piyush" Jindal)
    who did not like the idea and decided to get rid of it. Health care
    for profit, meaning for those who could afford it. He left office
    with very low approval ratings.

    It sure is interesting how you feel the need to defend him at every
    chance given. I wonder why that is.

    Him and I have fought some battles in the past and bear the scars to prove it. Museums of such battle-relics exist. And I respect an opponent who has made considerable contributions to Fidonet even though my mouth hurts when saying it. Not once when I approached him have I come home empty-handed.

    Fidonet is what sysops and non-sysops make it to be. Some will
    contribute, others not. But the more who do the better Fidonet will
    be.

    Bjorn is not an idiot, he's pretty intelligent and brilliant in his own way
    and I like people like that. There are others, take Michiel for instance ... we can have our differences but his intelligence must be recognized. In
    his statements Michiel is often right, and so is Bjorn.

    There are even rare occasions that I get lucky. Whether anybody else
    recognizes it is another matter ...

    Years ago during one of the scenes of The Simpsons, Bart was writing on the
    blackboard "Being right sucks" ... the truth ... and the truth often hurts.

    "What is truth?" ~Pilate to Jesus

    I would be truly scared if ever I meet someone who has found the truth.

    Let me tell you something silly ... your ZC as free unlimited access to the
    Z2 sysop-echo, writing rights and everything. I think it's a great principle. When I request access to Z1C it can't be done because the consituency feels I defend Bjorn and that's unacceptable ... pathetic .. certainly when you realise these restricted echoes can be freely read on BBS-es.

    Why should any echo be restricted? Transparency should rule all
    of Fidonet. After all, what do sysops from any zone have to hide?

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 15:49:40 2022
    On 12 Aug 22 09:30:00, Dan Clough said the following to Nick Andre:

    Its exhausting hearing about how we're all to feel sorry for
    Darwin behavior.

    Agreed. It's all part of the "woke" culture bullshit.

    I hear that they're trying to come up with a new word because "woke" has ended up being associated with negative hurtful mean frowny sad-kitten-face things and not in the dreamy socialist utopian society type of way they want it.

    Honestly it would be lovely to have an evil alien invasion or the asteroid
    on its way to destroy our planet, or mother nature getting her revenge for our "climate change" BS by slamming us with a huge planetary catastrophe. The idea of another world war would really thin out the herd... *something* to give the soft millenial pacifist social-media-crowd a REAL reason to be afraid of instead the possibility of a certain US President in 2024 and "mean tweets".

    Wasn't WWIII supposed to happen with him? I was a bit sad when it didn't... I was told by liberals it would definately happen. Was hoping he would at least reenact his wrestling skills with Kim Jong Un... instead he becomes besties?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Aug 13 00:28:48 2022
    Sweden is on the more free side of things.

    When drinking beer in Sweden you also are broke before you get drunk, too expensive ...

    Is it? There have been 40,000+ attempts to amend the US Constitution,
    and only 27 successful amendments being ratified, since 1791.

    What is your country's batting average?

    Some years ago we threw it all on a pile and re-wrote the thing. It dated from 1831 ...

    There are many fine restaurants here, representing many lands, but
    none that I know of that serve fermented herring.

    They sell fermented herring in IKEA. Also Swedish meatballs ...

    Why should any echo be restricted? Transparency should rule all
    of Fidonet. After all, what do sysops from any zone have to hide?

    You really should get a nodenumber and a soap-box.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 15:22:16 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to IB Joe <=-

    That's the medical / legal approach and the latter sucks in a country where judges can be elected and also be political appointees.

    I don't think those are great choices but what others are there? Have them inherit their seats on the bench from their parents?



    ... "Mmmmmmmm.....bacon..."
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 15:24:57 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    And Clarence Thomas should never have become a justice at the supreme court in the first place. He was picked because of his colour and his conservative record, should've kept his hands off of Anita Hill, didn't even recluse himself ...

    Most all SCOTUS judges are chosen because of their conservative or liberal record, depending on who is choosing.



    ... "My eyeballs nearly popped out!"
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 15:37:36 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Mike,

    ... and will only abandon
    their (not really) neutrality once it becomes obvious that the Nazi USA will lose?

    You may have missed it, but Sweden actually gave up its neutrality in
    view of the war in Ukraine which some people are not calling a
    war...They applied for NATO membership.

    In the context of WWII, I probably could have worded that better... they actually started asserting their neutrality, instead of claiming it while assisting the Nazis, which is what they were doing before it became obvious that the Nazis would lose.


    ... Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 15:38:36 2022
    All of the above is irrelevant, and you did not address what I said
    *AT* *ALL*. Want to try again?

    He never does, and don't expect any future atempts to make any more sense.

    Wait until you quote one of his emails back to him, word for word, and he
    tells you "I didn't say that!" which really means he wants to walk it back and/or expects you to understand what he really meant but clearly did not say...

    ... "Buck McCoy?!? He was bigger than opium!"
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 15:39:51 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to IB Joe <=-

    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Salty is just a YouTuber... Just can't seem to get seem to get a regular journalist to pony up....

    Yeah. Maybe there is no story.

    Bjorn thought there was.

    This was prior to Roe getting overturned ... Her mother should have
    drove her to a state that do late term abortion and or infanticide...

    Before you start throwing around words like infanacide around you
    should learn what they mean. Someone might mistake you for a
    republican.

    Well, they cannot prove that it was not born alive because they burned the corpse and likely destroyed the evidence. If it was born alive, despite
    their intentions for it not to be, killing it after the fact is murder in
    most states.


    ... "Tryin' is the first step towards failure." - Homer
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 12 16:31:20 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Why does facebook keep records of people's private messages? Is that normal?
    Is that acceptable?

    Talking from the European perspective here ... I had a managerial job with

    a telecom operator. By law we were required to keep a log of 'phone calls'

    over a period of 30 years. Just "who" called "whom" from "when" until "when".

    I had forgotten about that but now that you mention it I think it is the
    same here.

    I'm a little surprised that private messages are stored and can be called up
    by authorities but I am not a member of facebook and has never read their terms.

    The terms I have read are so full of leagalesse I'm not always sure what
    they really mean.

    Big brother is watching and always has been.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates '81

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Fri Aug 12 16:47:17 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson:

    "The act of killing an infant.The practice of
    killing newborn infants.One who kills an infant."

    Yes, infanticide is a thing and does happen but that is not what is
    happening in this case.

    At some point that clump of cells becomes a person... Where is that??? When is that?? In the US there is a high percentage of people that support

    abortion... that percentage drops dramatically when it come to allowing unfeathered access to abortion...

    Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country for medical care.

    Well, The governor of California said he'd pay for everything... take him up on the offer. The the case we are talking about the young lady had 5 months to make her mind up... 5 months.... That's a long time to get things done legally, healthy and correctly. She went with a self-induced abortion and burning the evidence... She had a long time to do things right... and she had alternatives even after the 5 months.

    Do you expect the governor of California or some other state to foot the
    bill?

    Every person (man or woman) should be able to get quality medical care in their state.

    Why should someone travel to another state for medical care?

    Again... States politics are a little different than Canada. The constitution protects the individual and state from federal over reach... Abortions, now, are decided buy the people in each state... Some states may restrict your access... like to the first trimester.... others, like the 8 I mentioned will let you have at it...

    Sure, it the same in Canada. Different provinces have different laws.

    This is the beauty of it... If you think your state doesn't represent your

    views vote someone in that will represent your views or move to a new state....

    It is widely understood that a majority of Americans support the right to abortion all across America.

    There is a minority in America who want to force their view on the majority.

    There are rumblings that lefties are thinking of cruse ships... where they'll take you away and you can get a pedicure, manicure and an abortion

    all in international waters...

    That's a silly idea.

    They'll find away to bring the abortion mills back... they are just a transitional period

    What's needed is quality health care and choices.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 16:58:11 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I have not forgotten. Yes, I agree those are good options but
    they may not be feasible in every case.

    It's nearly always feasible.

    It is a choice. What's feasible for you in your situation may not be for someone else in their situation.

    It may not be *desireable* to the pregnant woman, but it's still better than killing a baby.

    What does desireable mean to you? It is a choice, maybe a hard choice that a woman needs to make. If it is desireable to her that will weigh in on *HER* decision.

    I don't think a warrant/subpeona was justified in this case, or
    it's use justified.

    You can't possibly say that, as you know NOTHING about the details of
    the case. Warrants are issued by a judge after being presented by law enforcement. So, a JUDGE thought there was sufficient reason for
    Facebook to give up some records. Your opinion on this doesn't matter, it's a matter of *LAW*.

    From what I do know about the details of this case I don't view this young
    lady as a criminal who should go through the courts and be convicted of a crime.

    I don't know. Perhaps it's like BBS logs. Maybe they're required to be kept. I don't know, and neither do you. I'm positive that every FB
    user agreed to that when they signed up, whether they realized it or
    not.

    I guess it is.

    The only people "at fault" here are the 2-3 people who apparently used FB/Messenger to discuss the killing of a baby.

    Nobody killed a baby. The young lady chose to have an abortion.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 17:02:26 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country
    for medical care.

    That's what everyone says, but I think in the REAL WORLD a person can
    find a way to get across a state line. It's really not that hard.

    It's not hard if you have the means.

    I haven't been to Hawaii for a long time and I was thinking that or a trip
    like that would be nice. I don't go because I don't have the means to make
    the trip.

    Every person (man or woman) should be able to get quality medical
    care in their state.

    Sounds like a nice idea in theory, but "should" is a difficult word to define. It's not an actual *right*, like many people somehow believe. Maybe one day it will be a reality.

    It is only an idea. There is nothing difficult or expensive about health
    care around abortion. Not providing this care may well prove to be more
    costly in different ways.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Luke... Luke... Use the MOUSE, Luke" - Obi Wan Gates

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Aug 12 17:04:28 2022
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Miscarriage, abortion, infanticide, what difference does it make?

    They are all different things with different meanings.

    It all amounts to same thing. And since it was caused by a woman,
    that makes it an act of murder. Punishable by life in prison ...

    That's what they keep telling me.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... A Smith & Wesson *ALWAYS* beats 4 Aces.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Aug 12 17:06:56 2022
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Young women should have a choice and healthy options in a situation like hers.

    And if they don't?

    Then we are left with less healthy options.

    What about that 10-year-old girl who had to cross state lines
    in order to get a legal abortion from a real doctor? She was raped
    at age 9 and would have been forced to carry to term otherwise,
    meaning her own death at a very young age (as well as the unborn).

    Yes, this kind of situation has happened before and it'll happen again.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... A Smith & Wesson *ALWAYS* beats 4 Aces.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Mike Powell on Fri Aug 12 17:55:18 2022
    Yeah. Maybe there is no story.

    Bjorn thought there was.

    Yes, Bjorn's post contained a story.

    Before you start throwing around words like infanacide around you
    should learn what they mean. Someone might mistake you for a
    republican.

    Well, they cannot prove that it was not born alive because they burned the corpse and likely destroyed the evidence. If it was born alive, despite their intentions for it not to be, killing it after the fact is murder in most states.

    "they" are not making any charges and don't have to prove anything.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Fri Aug 12 22:15:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Its exhausting hearing about how we're all to feel sorry for
    Darwin behavior.

    Agreed. It's all part of the "woke" culture bullshit.

    I hear that they're trying to come up with a new word because
    "woke" has ended up being associated with negative hurtful mean
    frowny sad-kitten-face things and not in the dreamy socialist
    utopian society type of way they want it.

    Yes, their original term-of-choice has turned around on them. Hahaha

    Honestly it would be lovely to have an evil alien invasion or the
    asteroid on its way to destroy our planet, or mother nature
    getting her revenge for our "climate change" BS by slamming us
    with a huge planetary catastrophe. The idea of another world war
    would really thin out the herd... *something* to give the soft
    millenial pacifist social-media-crowd a REAL reason to be afraid
    of instead the possibility of a certain US President in 2024 and
    "mean tweets".

    Yes. I find it difficult to understand how the last couple of
    generations have gotten so soft, so quickly. Spoiled little brats
    who've never had to work or struggle with a single thing in their
    sheltered little pathetic lives.

    Wasn't WWIII supposed to happen with him? I was a bit sad when it didn't... I was told by liberals it would definately happen. Was
    hoping he would at least reenact his wrestling skills with Kim
    Jong Un... instead he becomes besties?

    Yeah, I think it was supposed to happen by now. Of course, AlGore said
    the planet would be toast by now too. Maybe we'll have to settle for a
    nice Civil War instead. ;-)



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Fri Aug 12 22:16:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    All of the above is irrelevant, and you did not address what I said
    *AT* *ALL*. Want to try again?

    He never does, and don't expect any future atempts to make any
    more sense.

    I know, but somehow.... we keep trying.

    Wait until you quote one of his emails back to him, word for
    word, and he tells you "I didn't say that!" which really means he
    wants to walk it back and/or expects you to understand what he
    really meant but clearly did not say...

    :-)



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 22:20:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I don't think a warrant/subpeona was justified in this case, or
    it's use justified.

    You can't possibly say that, as you know NOTHING about the details of
    the case. Warrants are issued by a judge after being presented by law enforcement. So, a JUDGE thought there was sufficient reason for
    Facebook to give up some records. Your opinion on this doesn't matter, it's a matter of *LAW*.

    From what I do know about the details of this case I don't view
    this young lady as a criminal who should go through the courts
    and be convicted of a crime.

    I say again, your opinion on this is meaningless. So is mine. As you
    just said yourself, you don't have any details of what actually
    happened, so how can you formulate an opinion that the young lady isn't
    a criminal? You're making no sense. What DOES make sense is that an
    actual JUDGE thought there was enough reason/probable cause to approve a warrant to get more information. Do you not have ANY faith in the legal system, or what?

    The only people "at fault" here are the 2-3 people who apparently used FB/Messenger to discuss the killing of a baby.

    Nobody killed a baby. The young lady chose to have an abortion.

    That remains to be seen. I'm pretty sure a judge wouldn't approve a
    warrant to investigate a routine abortion. Ever think of it like that?


    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 12 22:23:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Not everyone has the means to travel to another state or country
    for medical care.

    That's what everyone says, but I think in the REAL WORLD a person can
    find a way to get across a state line. It's really not that hard.

    It's not hard if you have the means.

    As I just said, it's not that hard to find something/somebody to help. Perhaps a friend or a family member could give them a ride. Perhaps a
    cheap bus ticket would be possible. Etc, etc, etc.

    I haven't been to Hawaii for a long time and I was thinking that
    or a trip like that would be nice. I don't go because I don't
    have the means to make the trip.

    That's a stupid example, and you know it. Please don't waste people's
    time with stupid examples.


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 21:34:02 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    As I just said, it's not that hard to find something/somebody to help. Perhaps a friend or a family member could give them a ride. Perhaps a cheap bus ticket would be possible. Etc, etc, etc.

    Sure, there is nothing to it if you have the means.

    I haven't been to Hawaii for a long time and I was thinking that
    or a trip like that would be nice. I don't go because I don't
    have the means to make the trip.

    That's a stupid example, and you know it. Please don't waste people's time with stupid examples.

    It's a simple example of what I am trying to explain to you.

    If you find it a waste of time then find something better.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 12 21:52:13 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I say again, your opinion on this is meaningless. So is mine. As you just said yourself, you don't have any details of what actually
    happened, so how can you formulate an opinion that the young lady isn't
    a criminal?

    This young lady chose to abort her pregnancy. I see no reason to convict her
    of any crime.

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she lives. If that
    is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find herself in a jail cell.

    If that happens nobody wins. Not you, not me and not society generally.

    You're making no sense. What DOES make sense is that an actual JUDGE thought there was enough reason/probable cause to approve a warrant
    to get more information.

    Yes, that is likely what happened.

    Do you not have ANY faith in the legal system, or what?

    I am leary of the legal system here in Canada. It makes an attempt at
    justice but it doesn't always turn out that way because of loop holes and different reasons.

    Nobody killed a baby. The young lady chose to have an abortion.

    That remains to be seen. I'm pretty sure a judge wouldn't approve a warrant to investigate a routine abortion. Ever think of it like that?

    No body killed a baby in this case. This girl aborted her pregnacy. She is guilty of that.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Vincent Coen on Sat Aug 13 06:58:58 2022
    Funny I thought it was the FBI.

    WOW!



    ..

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 11:32:09 2022
    Alan,

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she lives. If that
    is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find herself in a jail cell.

    What the young lady needs is help, not jail time.

    In the enlightened part of the world it would not even be a news item.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 13 03:56:25 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson:

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she lives. If that is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find herself in a jail cell.

    What the young lady needs is help, not jail time.

    Yes, that what it boils down to.

    In the enlightened part of the world it would not even be a news item.

    It's the same here. It is a womans choice and she has medical care whatever choice she makes.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 08:00:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    As I just said, it's not that hard to find something/somebody to help. Perhaps a friend or a family member could give them a ride. Perhaps a cheap bus ticket would be possible. Etc, etc, etc.

    Sure, there is nothing to it if you have the means.

    I have to believe that there aren't that many folks who couldn't find a friend/family to drive them across a state line.

    I haven't been to Hawaii for a long time and I was thinking that
    or a trip like that would be nice. I don't go because I don't
    have the means to make the trip.

    That's a stupid example, and you know it. Please don't waste people's time with stupid examples.

    It's a simple example of what I am trying to explain to you.

    It's a stupid example. Nobody was talking about going to fucking Hawaii
    to get an abortion. OBVIOUSLY that idea meant going to a directly
    neighboring state, not fucking Hawaii. Quite a different level of
    "means" between these two things, and you know it.

    If you find it a waste of time then find something better.

    It looks like I won't find that with you, anyway.


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 08:06:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I say again, your opinion on this is meaningless. So is mine. As you just said yourself, you don't have any details of what actually
    happened, so how can you formulate an opinion that the young lady isn't
    a criminal?

    This young lady chose to abort her pregnancy. I see no reason to
    convict her of any crime.

    You say this.... and then right below, you go the other direction...

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she
    lives. If that is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and
    all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find
    herself in a jail cell.

    Correct. That is what I've been saying all along, and you seem to have
    not realized it. There are ALREADY legal proceedings against her.

    If that happens nobody wins. Not you, not me and not society
    generally.

    I'd agree with that. Crime has no winners.

    You're making no sense. What DOES make sense is that an actual JUDGE thought there was enough reason/probable cause to approve a warrant
    to get more information.

    Yes, that is likely what happened.

    Do you not have ANY faith in the legal system, or what?

    I am leary of the legal system here in Canada. It makes an
    attempt at justice but it doesn't always turn out that way
    because of loop holes and different reasons.

    That happens in many/all countries, unfortunately. That's not what
    we're debating, though.

    Nobody killed a baby. The young lady chose to have an abortion.

    That remains to be seen. I'm pretty sure a judge wouldn't approve a warrant to investigate a routine abortion. Ever think of it like that?

    No body killed a baby in this case. This girl aborted her
    pregnacy. She is guilty of that.

    Again, whether she killed a baby remains to be seen. What if, as the
    details come out, it is seen that the baby was born alive and then
    she/they burned it? What will you think then?


    ... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 13 08:32:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she lives. If that
    is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find herself in a jail cell.

    What the young lady needs is help, not jail time.

    Looks to me like she needs *legal* help to avoid jail time.

    In the enlightened part of the world it would not even be a news
    item.

    Well, isn't that very Beeorn-ish of you to say. Pffffttttt.

    Never pass up a chance for a USA cheap-shot, eh?


    ... Some people are born stupid, others work to acquire it.
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    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 08:36:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she lives. If that is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find herself in a jail cell.

    What the young lady needs is help, not jail time.

    Yes, that what it boils down to.

    In the enlightened part of the world it would not even be a news item.

    It's the same here. It is a womans choice and she has medical
    care whatever choice she makes.

    A great example of "everyone in the world knows how the USA should
    conduct their business" better than those who ACTUALLY FUCKING LIVE in
    the USA.

    A Euro-commie and a Trudeau fan-boi dispensing their "wisdom". Yeah,
    right. Mind your own business, we'll run our own country.


    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 08:08:57 2022
    On 12 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    Do you expect the governor of California or some other state to foot the bill?


    The governor of California publicly stated he would do this for anyone who wants an abortion but their state says no... So, yes... I would expect him to foot the bill.

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... THE fIRST sTEP iS tO tAKE oFF tHE cAPS lOCK

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 16:24:30 2022
    Instant karma at its best ...

    Well, isn't that very Beeorn-ish of you to say. Pffffttttt.

    Never pass up a chance for a USA cheap-shot, eh?

    ... Some people are born stupid, others work to acquire it.

    What was your method? 8-)

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 13 16:49:52 2022
    ... Some people are born stupid, others work to acquire it.

    What was your method? 8-)

    Listening to Tucker Carlson will work.



    ..

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  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 13 15:43:34 2022
    Hello Ward!

    Friday August 12 2022 18:53, you wrote to me:

    Vince,

    The US LEA raided Trump's "home" because they were convinced
    that

    Funny I thought it was the FBI.

    And the FBI is not a LEA? (Law Enforcement Agency)

    The abbreviation was not known to me but as the FBI was the direct agency the reference should have been its name i.e., FBI and just any of the what hundreds
    of agencies it might have been, etc.

    Just inaccurate - bit like some the the UK newspaper reporting these day.

    I always cringe on reports related to aviation or computing that they cannot be
    bothered to check their content with some who does know before printing the rubbish. Some of the errors can really be serious to confuse readers.


    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v8 X64/Mbse v1.0.8/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Vincent Coen on Sat Aug 13 08:21:26 2022
    Vincent Coen wrote to Björn Felten <=-

    The US LEA raided Trump's "home" because they were convinced that
    there would still be sensitive documents, removed from the White House there. They had already been given 15 boxes of documents *illegally*
    moved to Florida, but after analysing those, found out that there must
    be more there. I repeat, highly classified documents.

    ...

    Funny I thought it was the FBI.

    To be precise, it was. The US government has already set some
    dangerous precedent in the area of former officials and highly classified documents. For example, if instead of keeping paper copies, he had been running his own server and keeping copies there, using a program like
    Bleach Bit to get rid of them (rather than turn them over to the National Archives, like he legally should have), and then claiming under oath that he couldn't remember any of it because he'd recently been hit on the head, it would probably be a non-issue... well, at least, it has worked for other,
    non "MAGA fascists" officials before.

    Oh yeah and, while housing the highly classified documents, that insecure server got hacked at least once.

    IMHO, it is something that *neither* of them should have been doing, but you cannot expect people to get too excited about it if they know it's already
    been done without any consequence.


    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: Possum Lodge South * possumso.fsxnet.nz:24/SSH:2122 (1:2320/107)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 15:21:58 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Sure, there is nothing to it if you have the means.

    I have to believe that there aren't that many folks who couldn't find a friend/family to drive them across a state line.

    Sure, call a friend to take you across state lines. Sounds like a crime
    family.

    It's a simple example of what I am trying to explain to you.

    It's a stupid example. Nobody was talking about going to fucking Hawaii to get an abortion. OBVIOUSLY that idea meant going to a directly neighboring state, not fucking Hawaii. Quite a different level of
    "means" between these two things, and you know it.

    It's actually a pretty good example since abortion is legal in Hawaii.

    If you find it a waste of time then find something better.

    It looks like I won't find that with you, anyway.

    Were you hoping that I would tickle your ears?

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates '81

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 15:27:10 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    This young lady chose to abort her pregnancy. I see no reason to convict her of any crime.

    You say this.... and then right below, you go the other direction...

    No, state law where the young lady live may go another direction.

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she
    lives. If that is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and
    all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find
    herself in a jail cell.

    Correct. That is what I've been saying all along, and you seem to have not realized it. There are ALREADY legal proceedings against her.

    Of course. What I am saying is that there is no value in a conviction of
    some sort.

    Do you not have ANY faith in the legal system, or what?

    I am leary of the legal system here in Canada. It makes an
    attempt at justice but it doesn't always turn out that way
    because of loop holes and different reasons.

    That happens in many/all countries, unfortunately. That's not what
    we're debating, though.

    No, it isn't. It's a question you asked and I answered.

    No body killed a baby in this case. This girl aborted her
    pregnacy. She is guilty of that.

    Again, whether she killed a baby remains to be seen. What if, as the details come out, it is seen that the baby was born alive and then she/they burned it? What will you think then?

    No baby has been killed in this case. She chose and had an abortion.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 15:29:20 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    It's the same here. It is a womans choice and she has medical
    care whatever choice she makes.

    A great example of "everyone in the world knows how the USA should
    conduct their business" better than those who ACTUALLY FUCKING LIVE in
    the USA.

    Those who actually live in the USA are in favour of abortion rights. Do you
    not know this?

    A Euro-commie and a Trudeau fan-boi dispensing their "wisdom". Yeah, right. Mind your own business, we'll run our own country.

    This kind of name calling is childish.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... A Smith & Wesson *ALWAYS* beats 4 Aces.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Sat Aug 13 15:34:46 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson:

    The governor of California publicly stated he would do this for anyone who

    wants an abortion but their state says no... So, yes... I would expect him

    to foot the bill.

    What did the governor of California say that makes you think he will pay?

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Build a watch in 179 easy steps" by C. Forsberg.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Sun Aug 14 00:39:18 2022
    In the context of WWII, I probably could have worded that better... they actually started asserting their neutrality, instead of claiming it while assisting the Nazis, which is what they were doing before it became obvious
    that the Nazis would lose.

    What part of neutrality do you not understand? If Sweden had treated Germany differently than the Allies, how could that mean neutrality? Should we suddenly refuse to sell iron ore to Germany, while continuing to sell to England?

    It's not like we sold huge computer systems to the Nazis, to help them with their Holocaust, is it?



    ..

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Sun Aug 14 01:25:49 2022

    It's actually a pretty good example since abortion is legal in Hawaii.

    That suddenly makes all Hawaii travel dubious ... 8-)

    \%/@rd

    The prosecutor for Nebraska is now requesting all departure manifests for Hawaii airports from the mainland ...

    --- DB4 - 20220519
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Sun Aug 14 01:28:58 2022
    A Euro-commie and a Trudeau fan-boi dispensing their "wisdom". Yeah, AI>DC> right. Mind your own business, we'll run our own country.

    This kind of name calling is childish.

    Dossche's Law #4:

    "At the end of a stretched online debate, there always is an insult".

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Sun Aug 14 01:32:54 2022
    It's not like we sold huge computer systems to the Nazis, to help them
    with their Holocaust, is it?

    ISBN 9780914153283

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 18:36:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Sure, there is nothing to it if you have the means.

    I have to believe that there aren't that many folks who couldn't find a friend/family to drive them across a state line.

    Sure, call a friend to take you across state lines. Sounds like a
    crime family.

    Actually it would be a friend helping you to *AVOID* committing a crime
    if your neighboring state allows abortions, and your own state doesn't.

    It's a simple example of what I am trying to explain to you.

    It's a stupid example. Nobody was talking about going to fucking Hawaii to get an abortion. OBVIOUSLY that idea meant going to a directly neighboring state, not fucking Hawaii. Quite a different level of
    "means" between these two things, and you know it.

    It's actually a pretty good example since abortion is legal in
    Hawaii.

    That wasn't the point, dimwit. You can't see the difference in having
    the "means" to travel to Hawaii; and the means to drive a short distance
    to another state? Jesus, don't be so fucking dense.


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 18:39:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    She may be guilty of a crime depending on state law where she
    lives. If that is the case then there will be judges, lawyers and
    all manner of legal proceedings against her. She may well find herself in a jail cell.

    Correct. That is what I've been saying all along, and you seem to have not realized it. There are ALREADY legal proceedings against her.

    Of course. What I am saying is that there is no value in a
    conviction of some sort.

    There might be. Perhaps it would serve as a deterrent for other people considering doing the same crime.

    No body killed a baby in this case. This girl aborted her
    pregnacy. She is guilty of that.

    Again, whether she killed a baby remains to be seen. What if, as the details come out, it is seen that the baby was born alive and then she/they burned it? What will you think then?

    No baby has been killed in this case. She chose and had an
    abortion.

    It's like you don't even read the previous reply, and just re-blurt out
    your talking points. Shows a real lack of comprehension is what it
    does.


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 18:43:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    It's the same here. It is a womans choice and she has medical
    care whatever choice she makes.

    A great example of "everyone in the world knows how the USA should
    conduct their business" better than those who ACTUALLY FUCKING LIVE in
    the USA.

    Those who actually live in the USA are in favour of abortion
    rights. Do you not know this?

    Some are, some aren't. That's what I know. Those are the facts.

    A Euro-commie and a Trudeau fan-boi dispensing their "wisdom". Yeah, right. Mind your own business, we'll run our own country.

    This kind of name calling is childish.

    Your refusal to actually read replies and comment on them (without just regurgitating the talking points you've already repeated) is what's
    childish. It's like trying to debate with an 8-year-old.

    Here's a newsflash for ya: We here in the USA don't give a rat's ass
    what you and others in other countries think about our laws and how we
    handle such issues. Mind your own business.


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Vincent Coen@2:250/1 to Ward Dossche on Sun Aug 14 00:48:42 2022
    Hello Ward!

    Sunday August 14 2022 01:32, you wrote to Bjrn Felten:

    It's not like we sold huge computer systems to the Nazis, to help
    them with their Holocaust, is it?

    ISBN 9780914153283

    Thanks - I had forgotten that IBM supplied Germany with URE both before and during the war at least up till the time the USA entered the war and possibly after.



    Vincent

    --- Mageia Linux v8 X64/Mbse v1.0.8/GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: Air Applewood, The Linux Gateway to the UK & Eire (2:250/1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Vincent Coen on Sun Aug 14 02:16:27 2022
    Vince,

    It's not like we sold huge computer systems to the Nazis, to help VC>BF>> them with their Holocaust, is it?

    ISBN 9780914153283

    Thanks - I had forgotten that IBM supplied Germany with URE both before
    and
    during the war at least up till the time the USA entered the war and possibly after.

    After. Even after D-Day IBM provided support.

    In the wake of the troops advancing in France and Germany there was a special IBM-unit that took charge of all the equipment they came across.

    The Nazis used-it among others for scheduling the complicated railroad system to organize trains to the killing-camps.

    Payments were made by Nazi-gold stolen from the Jews, and extracted from their corpses, via clearing houses in Switzerland ... so much for neutrality.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 13 18:00:11 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson:

    This kind of name calling is childish.

    Dossche's Law #4:

    "At the end of a stretched online debate, there always is an insult".

    There are those who simply insult. No debate, just insult.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Build a watch in 179 easy steps" by C. Forsberg.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 18:04:16 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Sure, call a friend to take you across state lines. Sounds like a crime family.

    Actually it would be a friend helping you to *AVOID* committing a crime
    if your neighboring state allows abortions, and your own state doesn't.

    How far should someone travel for health care?

    It's actually a pretty good example since abortion is legal in
    Hawaii.

    That wasn't the point, dimwit.

    That is the point, dimwit.

    You can't see the difference in having the "means" to travel to Hawaii;
    and the means to drive a short distance to another state? Jesus, don't
    be so fucking dense.

    Jesus, don't be so fucking dense. It is no problem to travel if you have the means regardless of the destination.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... A dirty book is rarely dusty.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 18:07:19 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    It's like you don't even read the previous reply, and just re-blurt out your talking points. Shows a real lack of comprehension is what it
    does.

    Maybe try understanding what I posted?

    You keep saying "killed a baby", and that is simply untrue.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Suicide Hotline...please hold."

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 13 18:18:11 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Those who actually live in the USA are in favour of abortion
    rights. Do you not know this?

    Some are, some aren't. That's what I know. Those are the facts.

    Of course, that is not new. It's obvious.

    A large majority of Americans are in favour of abortion rights for women.
    That is a fact.

    This kind of name calling is childish.

    Your refusal to actually read replies and comment on them (without just regurgitating the talking points you've already repeated) is what's childish. It's like trying to debate with an 8-year-old.

    I have not refused to read anything. Your name calling is childish.

    Here's a newsflash for ya: We here in the USA don't give a rat's ass
    what you and others in other countries think about our laws and how we handle such issues. Mind your own business.

    Here's a news flash for ya:

    It's pretty clear that some of you in the USA don't give a rat's ass.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates '81

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alexander Grotewohl@1:120/616 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 22:41:41 2022
    On 13 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    A large majority of Americans are in favour of abortion rights for women. That is a fact.

    you'll be surprised to learn the system is specifically set up so the majority can't just walk all over the minority.

    you can argue that's bad when you don't like the outcome, and good when you do. whatever

    ... Kilometers are shorter than miles. Save gas, take your trip in kilometers

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Alexander Grotewohl on Sat Aug 13 21:13:47 2022
    Alexander Grotewohl wrote to Alan Ianson:

    A large majority of Americans are in favour of abortion rights for
    AI? women. That is a fact.

    you'll be surprised to learn the system is specifically set up so the majority can't just walk all over the minority.

    What system is setup so the majority can't walk all over the minority?

    What are you trying to say?

    you can argue that's bad when you don't like the outcome, and good when you do. whatever

    I have not and would not make such an argument.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... An Elephant; A Mouse built to government specifications.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Sun Aug 14 10:14:05 2022
    This kind of name calling is childish.

    Dossche's Law #4:

    "At the end of a stretched online debate, there always is an insult".

    There are those who simply insult. No debate, just insult.

    As long as women don't have access to abortion, which just is another form of health-care, they are not equal to men and just 2nd rate citizens.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alexander Grotewohl on Sun Aug 14 10:30:49 2022
    Alexander,

    you'll be surprised to learn the system is specifically set up so the majority can't just walk all over the minority.

    A democracy where a majority rules without disrespecting the minority is a good thing.

    But that's not how the system in the USA works, it's "winner takes all" whatever the loser represents ... It's either a Democrat or a Republican and they'll do whatever to honor their campaign promises which always will include the catchphrase to turn this country / state / county / town 180 degrees around and bring prosperity ... while none of it will happen and come next elections another candidate from the other party will make the same promises and will equally fail.

    "the benefit of the people" is often forgotten ... nom it is "always" forgotten. But I love them making such statements, such as GWB one day claiming to turn the country 360 degrees around and the electororate didn't catch it.

    Besides, how about a group of 9 black clad people in DC deciding against the will of the majority of an entire population?

    True, they have not banned abortion but they're causing a whole lot of misery for mostly poor people, because the more well-off will still have that option open ... it's a class justice system where the poor and the weak are "not" protected.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Sun Aug 14 07:12:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Alexander Grotewohl <=-

    you'll be surprised to learn the system is specifically set up so the majority can't just walk all over the minority.

    A democracy where a majority rules without disrespecting the
    minority is a good thing.

    But that's not how the system in the USA works, it's "winner
    takes all" whatever the loser represents ... It's either a
    Democrat or a Republican and they'll do whatever to honor their
    campaign promises which always will include the catchphrase to
    turn this country / state / county / town 180 degrees around and
    bring prosperity ... while none of it will happen and come next
    elections another candidate from the other party will make the
    same promises and will equally fail.

    "the benefit of the people" is often forgotten ... nom it is
    "always" forgotten. But I love them making such statements, such
    as GWB one day claiming to turn the country 360 degrees around
    and the electororate didn't catch it.

    Besides, how about a group of 9 black clad people in DC deciding
    against the will of the majority of an entire population?

    True, they have not banned abortion but they're causing a whole
    lot of misery for mostly poor people, because the more well-off
    will still have that option open ... it's a class justice system
    where the poor and the weak are "not" protected.

    Yeah, OK, so the USA sucks and your little country is perfect. Yada
    yada yada. Whatever. You're great and we suck. There. Happy now
    Ward? Or is it Beeorn? Getting hard to tell any difference between the
    two of you.



    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Sun Aug 14 14:38:48 2022
    Dan,

    Yeah, OK, so the USA sucks and your little country is perfect. Yada
    yada yada. Whatever. You're great and we suck. There. Happy now
    Ward? Or is it Beeorn? Getting hard to tell any difference between the two of you.

    Politics in the USA has become a marketable media-show which generates income for corporations like Fox, no wonder people on this side of the pond are in a capacity to generate their {often sharp} opinion.

    There are a lot of things in the USA which suck from our point of view ... providing a decent salary for a decent job for example, universal healthcare, pensions. the pipeline business, the whole immigration system ...

    But for a large percentage of countries on the way to development it's still better that what they have.

    \%/@rd


    Oh yes, your politics suck too ... my former girlfirned overthere sucked too, man did she have lips ...◄

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From MATT MUNSON@1:218/109 to Alan Ianson on Sat Aug 13 21:49:42 2022
    How far should someone travel for health care?

    If you need services travel to where you can get it at the best price and best timeliness of services. If I was British and I had a hard time getting private dentistry, id fly to the United States to get dental treatment.

    ... I am NOT a tagline THIEF. I am a tagline CONSERVATIONIST.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/08/19 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Björn Felten on Sun Aug 14 09:12:07 2022
    What part of neutrality do you not understand? If Sweden had treated Germany differently than the Allies, how could that mean neutrality? Should we suddenly refuse to sell iron ore to Germany, while continuing
    to sell to England?

    Did you allow English troops to move over your soil between Norway and
    Finland? When Germany asked Sweden not to allow refugees from Norway
    across the border, what happened? Favoring one beligerent over another is
    not neutrality.

    It's not like we sold huge computer systems to the Nazis, to help
    them with their Holocaust, is it?

    That was a private firm, not a government decision. I have no alligence to IBM.


    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Mike Powell on Sun Aug 14 22:41:06 2022
    Did you allow English troops to move over your soil between Norway and Finland?

    Had they wanted to, of course. When, where and why did they want that? You *do* know that Norway was occupied by the Nazis? Have you watched a bad Hollywood movie now again?

    After all, Sweden allowed hundreds of Allied aeroplanes to land on our airfields when they were damaged over Germany and took good care of their crews.



    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Powell on Sun Aug 14 22:57:33 2022
    Mike,

    Did you allow English troops to move over your soil between Norway and Finland? When Germany asked Sweden not to allow refugees from Norway across the border, what happened? Favoring one beligerent over another
    is not neutrality.

    During World War II the Swedish cruiser Gotland sighted the German battleship Bismarck when it broke out of the Baltic Sea. The sighting was reported to Swedish Navy headquarters.

    "Kattegat, today 20 May. At 1500, two large warships,
    escorted by three destroyers, five ships and ten or
    twelve planes, passed Marstrand to the northeast. 2058/20."

    It gave away the start of 'Operation Rheinuebung" before it even started.

    The report was passed to the British naval attache in Stockholm, who forwarded it to the Admiralty, triggering the Battle of the Denmark Strait, the allied chase and eventual lucky demise of the battleship.

    Sweden never assisted the Nazis in sinking any Allied ships.

    As for Nazi troops passing through Sweden, this was a negotiated deal between Sweden and Nazi Germany with numbers way lower than Nazi-Germany wanted ... so you could just as well claim that Sweden hampered the Nazi-intentions. Had Sweden refused to negotiate, Nazi Germany would have occupied the country and more troops would have transited through it.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Mon Aug 15 01:24:04 2022
    On 08-14-22 10:30, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Alexander Grotewohl about Re: Snitch Country <=-

    you'll be surprised to learn the system is specifically set up so the majority can't just walk all over the minority.

    A democracy where a majority rules without disrespecting
    the minority is a good thing.

    But that's not how the system in the USA works, it's "winner takes
    all"

    I am going to disagree with you on this one. There are several examples
    where the minority is not without power.

    To start with, there is the electoral college. Although I believe it to
    be flawed, especially in view of recent efforts in Republican controled
    states to over rule the voice of voters in their own state. BUT, as
    originally constructed -- it makes sure that a few very populous states
    cannot over rule the more rural states. This was demonstrated in the
    past two presidental elections where the popular vote nationwide had a
    large margin for one candidate whereas the electoral college either went
    for the other candidate or by a lessor margin to the winner of the
    poplular vote.

    My other example would be illustrated by the situation in the US Senate.
    In most or many cases nothing can be passed in to law without 60% of the
    Senate voting yes. That means that the minority party can effectively
    block (i.e. filibuster) any legislation that they do not like. That
    forces the majority party to either not pass legislation or to seek
    compromise with the minority party. There are exceptions to this 60%
    rule, mainly having to do with budget bills. Granted that this is
    something caused by the Senate rules, and that could be changed -- but
    so far there is reluctance to make such a change.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:39:12, 15 Aug 2022
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Matt Munson on Mon Aug 15 01:40:06 2022
    On 08-13-22 21:49, Matt Munson <=-
    spoke to Alan Ianson about Re: Snitch Country <=-


    How far should someone travel for health care?

    If you need services travel to where you can get it at the
    best price and best timeliness of services. If I was
    British and I had a hard time getting private dentistry, id
    fly to the United States to get dental treatment.

    I had a friend who would always go to a foreign country ( I think it was Singapore) for his dental treatment. He was in part aided by the fact
    that much of his air travel could be done with frequent flyer miles.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:42:18, 15 Aug 2022
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to IB Joe on Mon Aug 15 14:54:43 2022
    Hello IB Joe,


    Do you expect the governor of California or some other state to foot
    the
    bill?


    The governor of California publicly stated he would do this for anyone who wants an abortion but their state says no... So, yes... I would expect him to foot the bill.

    The state of Louisiana used to have a charity hospital system.
    Worked great for decades, thanks to Huey Long and his brother, Earl.
    In fact, such a system would do wonders for California. Rather than
    people leaving the state in droves, people would start flocking back
    in. And then there would be no more room for immigrants from Mexico.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Mon Aug 15 14:54:56 2022
    Hello Björn,

    ... Some people are born stupid, others work to acquire it.

    What was your method? 8-)

    Listening to Tucker Carlson will work.

    Yeah. But Tucker Carlson gets paid for it.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Mon Aug 15 07:27:55 2022
    On 13 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    What did the governor of California say that makes you think he will pay?


    He said his state would pay for the trip and the procedure... I Googled a few things.... people are pissed that he's backed away on his offer to pay and did not budget out of state abortions...

    This doesn't take away from the fact that the person in the original tread had 5 months to get a legal abortion in the state she lived in... shew waited 3 more weeks... had the abortion at home... and stet the evidence on fire ...

    So .... The authorities asked FaceBook for their chat history...

    There was several options to them... all legal.... They chose the one they did...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Hard work never killed anyone but why take a risk?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Aug 15 07:31:26 2022
    On 15 Aug 2022, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    The state of Louisiana used to have a charity hospital system.
    Worked great for decades, thanks to Huey Long and his brother, Earl.
    In fact, such a system would do wonders for California. Rather than
    people leaving the state in droves, people would start flocking back
    in. And then there would be no more room for immigrants from Mexico.


    I think people are leaving California for a lot of reasons... High taxes and high regulations and cost of living. High crime the list goes on. There are several states out there, like Florida, that have a low tax system...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... A Skydiver is taken by the gravity of his situation.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Mon Aug 15 16:57:05 2022
    How far should someone travel for health care?

    If you need services travel to where you can get it at the
    best price and best timeliness of services. If I was
    British and I had a hard time getting private dentistry, id
    fly to the United States to get dental treatment.

    I had a friend who would always go to a foreign country ( I think it was Singapore) for his dental treatment. He was in part aided by the fact
    that much of his air travel could be done with frequent flyer miles.

    Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care. It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in the first place.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Mon Aug 15 18:57:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    I had a friend who would always go to a foreign country ( I think it was Singapore) for his dental treatment. He was in part aided by the fact that much of his air travel could be done with frequent flyer miles.

    Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for
    a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care.
    It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing
    done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in
    the first place.

    Your wooden nose just grew another inch.



    ... A plan so cunning that if it had a tail it would be a weasel.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alexander Grotewohl@1:120/616 to Dan Clough on Mon Aug 15 21:56:25 2022
    On 15 Aug 2022, Dan Clough said the following...

    Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for
    a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care.
    It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing
    done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in
    the first place.

    Your wooden nose just grew another inch.

    maybe she ran out of european toothpaste ;)

    ... Light year: 1/3 less calories than your regular year

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Mon Aug 15 22:42:24 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson:

    What did the governor of California say that makes you think he will pay?

    He said his state would pay for the trip and the procedure... I Googled a few things.... people are pissed that he's backed away on his offer to pay

    and did not budget out of state abortions...

    I have been looking for info on this and nothing comes up. I am not sure
    what he said that makes you think he's (California) going to pay the travel expenses of out of state travelers.

    Can you provide a link to a page that explains what you are talking about
    here?

    This doesn't take away from the fact that the person in the original tread

    had 5 months to get a legal abortion in the state she lived in... shew waited 3 more weeks... had the abortion at home... and stet the evidence on fire ...

    As I said already I don't think this young lady has been making wise
    choices but I don't think that makes here a criminal. The state of Nebraska
    may think otherwise.

    So .... The authorities asked FaceBook for their chat history...

    Yes, facebook is a valuable resource!

    There was several options to them... all legal.... They chose the one they

    did...

    So they did.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... A dirty book is rarely dusty.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Matthew Munson@1:218/109 to IB Joe on Mon Aug 15 19:53:40 2022

    We also have another crap bill SB 107 who wants to offer trans surgeries and medicine to out of state residents. My state is going to get broke from all this stuff in California. I like to find out ways to dodge paying sales tax whenever i can. Like buying crap from foreign countries.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: inland utopia bbs * ontario, california (1:218/109)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Matthew Munson on Tue Aug 16 01:40:55 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to IB Joe:

    We also have another crap bill SB 107 who wants to offer trans surgeries and medicine to out of state residents. My state is going to get broke
    from all this stuff in California.

    How is your state going to go broke from providing health care to trans
    people from out of state?

    I like to find out ways to dodge paying sales tax whenever i can. Like buying crap from foreign countries.

    Uh huh.


    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... An Elephant; A Mouse built to government specifications.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Matthew Munson on Tue Aug 16 14:13:27 2022
    We also have another crap bill SB 107 who wants to offer trans surgeries and medicine to out of state residents. My state is going to get broke
    from all this stuff in California. I like to find out ways to dodge
    paying sales tax whenever i can. Like buying crap from foreign countries.

    My opinion:

    1) It's OK to be trans. Don't bother me with it. You need surgery? It's not
    'healthcare', pay for it yourself.

    2) How about buying stuff in states without sales tax? Montana for example ..

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Tue Aug 16 14:14:21 2022
    Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for
    a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care.
    It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing
    done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in
    the first place.

    Your wooden nose just grew another inch.

    My oldest daughter had major surgery with a galbladder removal. Single room in hospital, TV, WiFi for the time she was hospitalized ... I paid 1.29 Euro because she asked for an extra bottle of water one day.

    When my wife and I were hospitalized for some weeks in 2020 with an acute Covid19 infection we paid around 230 Euro for like 14 days in a private isolation room, the both of us, TV, Wifi, luxury meals, doctors, medication, tests ...

    I have several examples ... Do I need to explain to you the cost of healthcare, whatever healthcare, in the USA ?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Tue Aug 16 14:31:08 2022
    Your wooden nose just grew another inch.

    Typical.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    If your views are so fragile that the mere existence of other people, with different behaviours and beliefs, feels threatening to you, then that's not their problem, it's yours.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.


    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Tue Aug 16 07:41:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Friend of mine's daughter was in a student exchange programme for
    a year in the neighbourhood of Fort Worth and needed dental care.
    It was cheaper having her flown back to Europe, have the thing
    done and fly her back to Texas than having it done overthere in
    the first place.

    Your wooden nose just grew another inch.

    My oldest daughter had major surgery with a galbladder removal.
    Single room in hospital, TV, WiFi for the time she was
    hospitalized ... I paid 1.29 Euro because she asked for an extra
    bottle of water one day.

    Irrelevant to this discussion.

    When my wife and I were hospitalized for some weeks in 2020 with
    an acute Covid19 infection we paid around 230 Euro for like 14
    days in a private isolation room, the both of us, TV, Wifi,
    luxury meals, doctors, medication, tests ...

    Irrelevant to this discussion.

    I have several examples ... Do I need to explain to you the cost
    of healthcare, whatever healthcare, in the USA ?

    No. But it would be nice if you'd stop lying.


    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Tue Aug 16 07:47:00 2022
    Björn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Your wooden nose just grew another inch.

    Typical.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    I'd say the same about your post. As usual, you snip most of the
    relevant context, to help the chances of somebody believing your
    bullshit. Then, you post something completely irrelevant.

    If your views are so fragile that the mere existence of other
    people, with different behaviours and beliefs, feels threatening
    to you, then that's not their problem, it's yours.

    My views are not "fragile". Again, more irrelevant bullshit.

    Maybe you and Ward are actually related. When every word out of your
    mouth is a lie, it's your problem, not mine.



    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Tue Aug 16 15:10:37 2022
    Irrelevant to this discussion.
    ...
    Irrelevant to this discussion.
    ...
    No. But it would be nice if you'd stop lying.

    The one whose name we're not supposed to mention was so much better at this. You nearly, but not totally, make me miss him.

    BTW, how's the article for the Fidogazette coming along ... 6 months down the road ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Tue Aug 16 09:02:18 2022
    On 16 Aug 22 07:47:00, Dan Clough said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    If your views are so fragile that the mere existence of other people, with different behaviours and beliefs, feels threatening
    to you, then that's not their problem, it's yours.

    My views are not "fragile". Again, more irrelevant bullshit.

    Its anything to excuse the fact that its seemingly "okay" to keep on shoving anti-American rhetoric down everyone's throats at any given opportunity, as if the intended target audience here in 2022 of less than maybe a few dozen active people in this zone actually care two shits to hear it.

    You've got a pathetic widower riding out his remaining years being a loner with nothing to show for but a bad case of Abba and one who loves to run his mouth about everything wrong with America yet doesn't mind visiting at least once or twice or whatever. Whats the phrase... do as I say not as I do?

    They just dance around zonewars of the past... dance dance dance back to how Europe is so great and you suck and you must pay for past trolls, past insults, past everything that happened here. Not only do they know everything, they MUST shove it in your face that they know. Because they can.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Tue Aug 16 15:45:35 2022
    Maybe you and Ward are actually related.

    Oh, absolutely. Not only possibly genetically, since his ancestors, the Walloon, helped Sweden a lot when we welcomed them here as immigrants -- we've always understood the value, yes even importance, of immigrants...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloon_immigration_to_Sweden

    ... but more importantly we are related as citizens of the European Union, the socialist capitalism heaven on the the planet.

    One of my many friends, from the years that I was living and working in the USA, once said:

    Everyone I know that travels to Europe comes back to the US going "WTF am I doing living here?" The idea that the US is the best at really anything is an absurd falsehood we have been fed since birth to have us willingly go along living in this shit-hole of a country.

    What are *your* *own* experience from visiting Europe? Nah... of course not. You don't even have a passport, do you?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Björn Felten on Tue Aug 16 10:09:00 2022
    Beeorn Felten wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Maybe you and Ward are actually related.

    Oh, absolutely.

    Okay, good to know. Not likely that two individuals could become such
    obvious liars and bullshit-artists in any other way.

    Were your parents brother-sister, or just first-cousins?


    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Tue Aug 16 19:09:50 2022
    Maybe you and Ward are actually related.

    Oh, absolutely. Not only possibly genetically, since his ancestors,
    the Walloon, helped Sweden a lot when we welcomed them here as immigrants -- we've always understood the value, yes even importance, of
    immigrants...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloon_immigration_to_Sweden

    I mildly remember something about iron-works ....

    Then you will be interested to read this ...

    https://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/battery-park/monuments/1647

    The Walloon settlers monument in Battery Park at the southern tip of Manhattan which honours the first settlers onto Manhattan predating Pierre Minuit and Peter Stuyvesant. Belgians actually collonized and made the early development of Manhattan...that was several years before the hoax that it was bought from natives for some glass beads.

    ... but more importantly we are related as citizens of the European
    Union, the socialist capitalism heaven on the the planet.

    We don't exactly know what the Vikings did overhere ... their DNA may be everywhere ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tue Aug 16 20:09:26 2022
    We don't exactly know what the Vikings did overhere ... their DNA may be everywhere ...

    True. What we know however is, that those Vikings you think of did *not* come from Sweden, they came from Denmark and Norway. Yes, I know, those countries didn't yet exist as such, but I think you get what I mean.

    The Swedish Vikings were busy setting up trade routes to Miklagård (today Istanbul). On it's way they set up trade stations, the most important was a small village called Kiev. Those Vikings came mostly from Roslagen outside of today's Stockholm, so they were called Ros, later Rus. A thousand years later the kins of those Rus that stayed behind had grown and created what today is called Russia.



    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to NICK ANDRE on Tue Aug 16 16:59:00 2022
    You've got a pathetic widower riding out his remaining years being a loner with nothing to show for but a bad case of Abba and one who loves to run his mouth about everything wrong with America yet doesn't mind visiting at least once or twice or whatever.

    All while maintaining an alter-ego that even pretends to be a US citizen.


    * SLMR 2.1a * There is no dark side of the moon, really....
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Tue Aug 16 15:58:58 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to IB Joe <=-

    had 5 months to get a legal abortion in the state she lived in... shew waited 3 more weeks... had the abortion at home... and stet the evidence on fire ...

    As I said already I don't think this young lady has been making wise choices but I don't think that makes here a criminal. The state of Nebraska may think otherwise.

    Mutilation of a corpse (as we've established it was after 20 weeks)?
    Attempted destruction of evidence?



    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Matthew Munson@1:218/109 to Alan Ianson on Tue Aug 16 09:58:19 2022
    Re: Re: Snitch Country
    By: Alan Ianson to Matthew Munson on Tue Aug 16 2022 01:40 am

    How is your state going to go broke from providing health care to trans people from out of state?
    We also provide health care to illegal immigrants from around the world, abortion services to women in alabama and texas who fly here. We cant afford to be the make a wish department. My state is so leftist that I can understand its going to be paid for people who are primary residents of my state. But we cant afford to be a giving tree.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: inland utopia bbs * ontario, california (1:218/109)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Mike Powell on Tue Aug 16 18:25:55 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    As I said already I don't think this young lady has been making wise choices but I don't think that makes here a criminal. The state of Nebraska may think otherwise.

    Mutilation of a corpse (as we've established it was after 20 weeks)?

    Mutilation of a corpse? Who established what?

    Attempted destruction of evidence?

    What evidence did she attempt to destroy?

    I see no value is these type of prosecutions.

    It is abvious to me that this young lady needs help and has not been making wise choices but I don't think that makes her a criminal.

    It looks to me like this young lady may well get some kind of conviction and may well have to do jail time (to be determined by the state of Nebraska)
    but I see no value in that.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... At a store: In God we trust; all others pay cash.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Matthew Munson on Tue Aug 16 18:39:38 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to Alan Ianson:

    We also provide health care to illegal immigrants from around the world, abortion services to women in alabama and texas who fly here.

    Sure, anyone could travel to California for treatments. That doesn't mean
    the state of California will pay for it.

    We cant afford to be the make a wish department.

    That's not what California is.

    My state is so leftist that I can understand its going to be paid for people who are primary residents of my state.

    Are you running for office? Explain to people how to make things better and maybe they will vote for you.

    But we cant afford to be a giving tree.

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... "Suicide Hotline...please hold."

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Tue Aug 16 22:01:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    had 5 months to get a legal abortion in the state she lived in... shew waited 3 more weeks... had the abortion at home... and stet the evidence on fire ...

    As I said already I don't think this young lady has been making wise choices but I don't think that makes here a criminal. The state of Nebraska may think otherwise.

    Mutilation of a corpse (as we've established it was after 20
    weeks)? Attempted destruction of evidence?

    Or murder, if the fetus/baby was born alive, which it could have been.
    In fact that almost seems likely, as they may have wanted to burn it to
    hide that little detail.



    ... She kept saying I didn't listen to her, or something like that.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Matthew Munson@1:218/109 to Alan Ianson on Tue Aug 16 20:28:56 2022
    Re: Re: Snitch Country
    By: Alan Ianson to Matthew Munson on Tue Aug 16 2022 06:39 pm

    Sure, anyone could travel to California for treatments. That doesn't mean the state of California will pay for it.
    Oh they WANT TO.

    California's budget includes $40 million to cover abortions for women who can't afford them, including women from other states who travel to California. But Jessica Pinckney, executive director of Access Reproductive Justice, a California nonprofit that helps women pay for the logistics of an abortion, said travel is often one of the biggest barriers women face in seeking reproductive care.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/california-budget-cover-state-abortion- travel-85894853

    Are you running for office? Explain to people how to make things better and maybe they will vote for you.
    Not in this cycle. But I might in 2024.
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: inland utopia bbs * ontario, california (1:218/109)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Matthew Munson on Tue Aug 16 22:00:00 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to Alan Ianson:

    California's budget includes $40 million to cover abortions for women who can't afford them, including women from other states who travel to California. But Jessica Pinckney, executive director of Access Reproductive Justice, a California nonprofit that helps women pay for the logistics of an abortion, said travel is often one of the biggest barriers

    women face in seeking reproductive care.

    I can believe the cost of care as well as travel is a barrier for many.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... Nostalga isn't what it used to be

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Wed Aug 17 00:53:02 2022
    On 08-16-22 14:14, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Dan Clough about Re: Snitch Country <=-

    My oldest daughter had major surgery with a galbladder removal. Single room in hospital, TV, WiFi for the time she was hospitalized ...
    I paid 1.29 Euro because she asked for an extra bottle of
    water one day.

    My doctor sent me to the hospital because of a high white blood
    cell count. After a few hours in the emergency room, they diagnosed my
    problem to be that my gall bladder had died. I had surgery and then a
    further 3-4 day stay in a private room before being sent home. Total
    bill to me was US$0.00.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:57:36, 17 Aug 2022
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Wed Aug 17 10:31:15 2022
    The Swedish Vikings were busy setting up trade routes to Miklagård
    (today Istanbul). On it's way they set up trade stations, the most important was a small village called Kiev. Those Vikings came mostly from Roslagen outside of today's Stockholm, so they were called Ros, later
    Rus. A thousand years later the kins of those Rus that stayed behind had grown and created what today is called Russia.

    History can be an interesting thing.

    So actually these were Vikings that invaded Ukraine?

    What I've known already for a long time is that the viking image pressed on us via Hollywood (OK, Dan, have a go) is slightly wrong, to use an understatement.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Wed Aug 17 10:40:02 2022
    Dale,

    My doctor sent me to the hospital because of a high white blood
    cell count. After a few hours in the emergency room, they diagnosed my problem to be that my gall bladder had died. I had surgery and then a further 3-4 day stay in a private room before being sent home. Total
    bill to me was US$0.00.

    Yes, now please tell the complete story ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Wed Aug 17 08:24:52 2022
    On 16 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.


    No... I heard him say it...

    LA Times
    California would subsidize abortion services for uninsured, out-of-state patients under Newsom plan

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/california-could-subsidize-

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/california-could-subsidize- abortion-services-for-out-of-state-patients


    Breitbart
    Gavin Newsom: California Taxpayers to Subsidize Abortion Tourism

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/12/gavin-newsom-california-taxpayers -to-subsidize-abortion-tourism/

    Courthouse News Service
    Group wants California taxpayers to fund abortions for out-of-state patients

    https://www.courthousenews.com/group-wants-california-taxpayers-to-fund-abortio ns-for-out-of-state-patients/

    I heard him say it on the news...It was not a story I started....

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to IB Joe on Wed Aug 17 18:19:45 2022
    Breitbart
    Gavin Newsom: California Taxpayers to Subsidize Abortion Tourism

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/12/gavin-newsom-california-tax payers-to-subsidize-abortion-tourism/

    Ahhhh ... you're one of 'them' ... 8-)

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Matthew Munson@1:218/109 to IB Joe on Wed Aug 17 08:26:50 2022
    Re: Re: Snitch Country
    By: IB Joe to Alan Ianson on Wed Aug 17 2022 08:24 am

    No... I heard him say it...
    and with SB 107 they will also subsidize castrating young children from out of state. YAY! (/sarcasm)
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: inland utopia bbs * ontario, california (1:218/109)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Wed Aug 17 15:57:41 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    As I said already I don't think this young lady has been making wise choices but I don't think that makes here a criminal. The state of Nebraska may think otherwise.

    Mutilation of a corpse (as we've established it was after 20 weeks)?

    Mutilation of a corpse? Who established what?

    She set it on fire, and it was after 20 weeks which, at the time, was the cut-off in her state between what is believed potentially viable and what
    is not.

    Attempted destruction of evidence?

    What evidence did she attempt to destroy?

    See above.




    ... Keep your stick on the ice
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Wed Aug 17 15:58:03 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Mutilation of a corpse (as we've established it was after 20
    weeks)? Attempted destruction of evidence?

    Or murder, if the fetus/baby was born alive, which it could have been.
    In fact that almost seems likely, as they may have wanted to burn it to hide that little detail.

    Indeed.


    ... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely small values of 5
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Wed Aug 17 16:05:38 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Matthew Munson <=-

    But we cant afford to be a giving tree.

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    No, that is the story that Matt, a California resident who led off this discussion by telling us what California is planning, told.

    SINCE THEN, IB Joe has provided links to LA Times articles about it.

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that this is
    not happening in his state of residence?


    ... Tell me, is something eluding you, Sunshine?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Wed Aug 17 16:07:21 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to IB Joe <=-

    Breitbart
    Gavin Newsom: California Taxpayers to Subsidize Abortion Tourism

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/12/gavin-newsom-california-tax payers-to-subsidize-abortion-tourism/

    Ahhhh ... you're one of 'them' ... 8-)

    He also included links from the LA Times... does that make them "one of
    them" also?

    ... Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Ward Dossche on Wed Aug 17 13:55:56 2022
    On 17 Aug 2022, Ward Dossche said the following...

    Breitbart
    Gavin Newsom: California Taxpayers to Subsidize Abortion Tourism

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/12/gavin-newsom-california- payers-to-subsidize-abortion-tourism/

    Ahhhh ... you're one of 'them' ... 8-)


    What is one of them??

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... What do you mean, QWK? It took me over an hour to read!

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Matthew Munson on Wed Aug 17 13:57:57 2022
    On 17 Aug 2022, Matthew Munson said the following...

    Re: Re: Snitch Country
    By: IB Joe to Alan Ianson on Wed Aug 17 2022 08:24 am

    No... I heard him say it...
    and with SB 107 they will also subsidize castrating young children from out of state. YAY! (/sarcasm)

    I don't know about this castration business...

    People are leaving California in droves... this could be one of the reasons...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... I think I am, therefore, I am... I think.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Powell on Thu Aug 18 00:51:20 2022
    Mike,

    She set it on fire, and it was after 20 weeks which, at the time, was the cut-off in her state between what is believed potentially viable and what is not.

    Potentially viable at 20 weeks? You have a weird sense of humour ...

    This can simply be googled even...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to IB Joe on Wed Aug 17 16:41:08 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson:

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    No... I heard him say it...

    LA Times
    California would subsidize abortion services for uninsured, out-of-state patients under Newsom plan


    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/california-could-subsid

    ize-
    abortion-services-for-out-of-state-patients

    Yes, California is considering the above because they expect an influx of
    out of state travelers looking for health care in their state.

    Subsidies are not uncommon for people who need care and can't get it for various reasons.

    Breitbart
    Gavin Newsom: California Taxpayers to Subsidize Abortion Tourism


    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/12/gavin-newsom-california-taxpa

    yers
    -to-subsidize-abortion-tourism/

    Abortion tourism? Typical Brietbart.

    I heard him say it on the news...It was not a story I started....

    You said California was going to pay the travel costs.

    I don't see anything like that in the above.

    What makes you think California is going to pay travel costs?

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Mike Powell on Wed Aug 17 16:42:55 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Mutilation of a corpse? Who established what?

    She set it on fire, and it was after 20 weeks which, at the time, was the cut-off in her state between what is believed potentially viable and what is not.

    She had an abotion. That was a choice she made. That is not mutilation of a corpse.

    What evidence did she attempt to destroy?

    See above.

    See above.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... Beat's me!!! I never read the documentation

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Mike Powell on Wed Aug 17 16:46:04 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    No, that is the story that Matt, a California resident who led off this discussion by telling us what California is planning, told.

    I was not commenting an anything Matt said.

    IB Joe said California was going to pay travel costs.

    SINCE THEN, IB Joe has provided links to LA Times articles about it.

    And those links did not talk about travel expenses.

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that this is not happening in his state of residence?

    Matt and I were not talking about this. Matt has said nothing about travel expenses that I recall.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... ALIMONY: The cost of leaving

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From MATT MUNSON@1:218/109 to IB Joe on Wed Aug 17 17:55:50 2022
    I don't know about this castration business...

    since other states are making it harder for minors to be transgender, one of the nutjobs Scott Wiener from the city of fruits and nuts wants to make it easier for trans youth to be transgender from out of state, but its going to be more people to take care of that we cant afford.

    If you want to be trans as an adult more power to you, and there are even other well known trans adults like buck angel and blair white who are getting sick of the idea of a 14 year old girl lobbing off her breasts or a 16 year old boy getting his third leg inverted.

    ... A SQL query walks into a bar and sees two tables. Asks: 'Can I join you?'

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)
  • From MATT MUNSON@1:218/109 to Alan Ianson on Wed Aug 17 17:58:03 2022
    Matt and I were not talking about this. Matt has said nothing about
    travel expenses that I recall.

    legislation is offering the medical expenses, but the travel expenses are not being covered.

    ... Multitasking: Reading in the bathroom

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Wed Aug 17 21:22:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    But we cant afford to be a giving tree.

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    No, that is the story that Matt, a California resident who led
    off this discussion by telling us what California is planning,
    told.

    SINCE THEN, IB Joe has provided links to LA Times articles about
    it.

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that
    this is not happening in his state of residence?

    I'm sure he will. Alan doesn't appear to let facts get in the way of
    his opinions and posts. That's what happens when you drink as much of
    the Koolaid as he apparently has.



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to IB Joe on Wed Aug 17 21:32:00 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    Breitbart
    Gavin Newsom: California Taxpayers to Subsidize Abortion Tourism

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/12/gavin-newsom-california- payers-to-subsidize-abortion-tourism/

    Ahhhh ... you're one of 'them' ... 8-)

    What is one of them??

    Coming from him, it means somebody who is *NOT* a
    commie-wannabe-socialist Koolaid slurper who believes that everything
    should be free, and that the tiny little European countries that depend
    on the USA for nearly everything are far superior to the USA. His good
    buddy Beeeorn is even worse.


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Dan Clough on Wed Aug 17 21:13:14 2022
    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that
    this is not happening in his state of residence?

    I never told Matt that anything was or was not happening in his state.

    I'm sure he will. Alan doesn't appear to let facts get in the way of
    his opinions and posts. That's what happens when you drink as much of
    the Koolaid as he apparently has.

    Matt confirmed that legislation was about medical expenses and not travel.

    But don't let facts get in the way.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 18 00:16:02 2022
    On 08-17-22 10:40, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Snitch Country <=-


    Dale,

    My doctor sent me to the hospital because of a high white blood
    cell count. After a few hours in the emergency room, they diagnosed my problem to be that my gall bladder had died. I had surgery and then a further 3-4 day stay in a private room before being sent home. Total
    bill to me was US$0.00.

    Yes, now please tell the complete story ...

    ?? I did tell the complete story. What do you think was withheld?

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:17:26, 18 Aug 2022
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Thu Aug 18 10:46:15 2022
    Dale,

    Yes, now please tell the complete story ...

    ?? I did tell the complete story. What do you think was withheld?

    Nothing in the world is free, someone/something is paying...for example the military...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 18 07:24:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that
    this is not happening in his state of residence?

    I never told Matt that anything was or was not happening in his
    state.

    You're quoting the above as if *I* said that. I did not.

    I'm sure he will. Alan doesn't appear to let facts get in the way of
    his opinions and posts. That's what happens when you drink as much of
    the Koolaid as he apparently has.

    Matt confirmed that legislation was about medical expenses and
    not travel.

    Yeah, I saw that. I never said anything about what Matt might have
    said.

    But don't let facts get in the way.

    Strawman.

    The *ACTUAL* *TOPIC* being discussed in this thread was whether
    Kalifornia was paying for abortions for out of staters (and illegal
    aliens), at taxpayer expense. They are. Since you're not a Kalifornia resident you think that's just fine. What if you were paying taxes
    there, would you still think it's a great idea?



    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 18 07:29:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dale Shipp <=-

    Yes, now please tell the complete story ...

    ?? I did tell the complete story. What do you think was withheld?

    Nothing in the world is free, someone/something is paying...

    Whoa! Whoa! Careful, your socialist/commie masters might hear you
    saying that, and kick you out of the club.


    ... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 18 15:02:51 2022
    Nothing in the world is free, someone/something is paying...

    Whoa! Whoa! Careful, your socialist/commie masters might hear you
    saying that, and kick you out of the club.

    Am I wrong ?

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 18 08:00:48 2022
    On 17 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    You said California was going to pay the travel costs.

    I don't see anything like that in the above.

    What makes you think California is going to pay travel costs?

    It's not my fault I was listening to the news one day and I heard the governor of California say that... It was within days, like a day or two, of Roe getting overturned.

    I personally don't care... I don't have a dog in the race.

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Old computers make great boat anchors

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 18 08:08:54 2022
    On 17 Aug 2022, Dan Clough said the following...

    What is one of them??

    Coming from him, it means somebody who is *NOT* a commie-wannabe-socialist Koolaid slurper who believes that everything should be free, and that the tiny little European countries that depend on the USA for nearly everything are far superior to the USA. His good buddy Beeeorn is even worse.


    I was born in Canada and I naturalized to the US... I am a citizen of both countries. I prefer the US style of running things... prior to what's going on right now. To be honest I'm embarrassed to say that I'm Canadian with whats going on in Canada with Trudeau running things.

    I never thought we'd be here.

    It might be my prostate... but I piss Red, White & Blue!!!

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... The dog ate my .REP packet

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to MATT MUNSON on Thu Aug 18 08:14:00 2022
    On 17 Aug 2022, MATT MUNSON said the following...

    since other states are making it harder for minors to be transgender,
    one of the nutjobs Scott Wiener from the city of fruits and nuts wants
    to make it easier for trans youth to be transgender from out of state,
    but its going to be more people to take care of that we cant afford.

    If you want to be trans as an adult more power to you, and there are
    even other well known trans adults like buck angel and blair white who
    are getting sick of the idea of a 14 year old girl lobbing off her
    breasts or a 16 year old boy getting his third leg inverted.


    We are in troubled times...

    They should pass a law where a person who was encouraged to do this as a youth can sue your parents and any doctors who may be responsible in your sex change it would be cool...

    Parents and Dr. push you into things as a child and you have regrets later could be a big payday!!!

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... A Scarf is just an unfinished Afghan

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 18 17:29:40 2022
    Hello IB,

    On Thursday August 18 2022 08:08, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    It might be my prostate... but I piss Red, White & Blue!!!

    You have Dutch ancestry?

    https://www.vlaggen.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Nederland-vlag.jpg


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 18 11:18:10 2022
    I never told Matt that anything was or was not happening in his
    state.

    You're quoting the above as if *I* said that. I did not.

    No, I quoted what Matt said for context.

    I'm sure he will. Alan doesn't appear to let facts get in the way of
    his opinions and posts. That's what happens when you drink as much of
    the Koolaid as he apparently has.

    Matt confirmed that legislation was about medical expenses and
    not travel.

    Yeah, I saw that. I never said anything about what Matt might have
    said.

    But don't let facts get in the way.

    Strawman.

    There is no strawman.

    The *ACTUAL* *TOPIC* being discussed in this thread was whether
    Kalifornia was paying for abortions for out of staters (and illegal
    aliens), at taxpayer expense. They are. Since you're not a Kalifornia resident you think that's just fine. What if you were paying taxes
    there, would you still think it's a great idea?

    The topic of the thread *YOU* replied to was about California paying travel expenses for out of state travelers.

    IB Joe said that was the case but of course it is not.

    But don't let the facts get in your way.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Thu Aug 18 22:09:38 2022
    Björn Felten -> Mike Powell skrev 2022-08-14 22:41:
    Did you allow English troops to move over your soil between Norway and
    Finland?

    Had they wanted to, of course. When, where and why did they want that?
    You *do* know that Norway was occupied by the Nazis? Have you watched a bad Hollywood movie now again?

    Still waiting for an explanation. The silence is deafening, as usual when a D-K person is caught with his trousers down.

    Have you found out the facts, maybe? Like there still today is no available transportation means from Norway to Finland via Sweden. Every rail-road and main highway run strictly in a north to south direction (for military reasons). However Norway and Finland share a long common border, so why even bother Sweden?

    Alas, facts can be such a bummer, right?

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 18 16:37:00 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    The *ACTUAL* *TOPIC* being discussed in this thread was whether
    Kalifornia was paying for abortions for out of staters (and illegal
    aliens), at taxpayer expense. They are. Since you're not a Kalifornia resident you think that's just fine. What if you were paying taxes
    there, would you still think it's a great idea?

    The topic of the thread *YOU* replied to was about California
    paying travel expenses for out of state travelers.

    Wrong.

    IB Joe said that was the case but of course it is not.
    But don't let the facts get in your way.

    Ward and Beeeorn are proud of you, grasshopper.



    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Fri Aug 19 00:17:52 2022
    Alas, facts can be such a bummer, right?

    One day you will need to tell the story how Swedish Viggen fighters stopped the Russians from shooting down, or capturing, an SR71 Blackbird...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 18 16:35:15 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that
    this is not happening in his state of residence?

    I'm sure he will. Alan doesn't appear to let facts get in the way of
    his opinions and posts. That's what happens when you drink as much of
    the Koolaid as he apparently has.

    He did one better and claimed that he was not talking to Matt, even though
    he was responding to Matt. Alan is probably embarrassed that he tried to
    tell a Californian what is going on in his state when he (Al) does not
    really know.

    As for letting facts get in the way, that has never mattered for Alan. If
    you catch him making an error, he either "didn't say that!" or claims he
    was talking to someone other than the person he was responding to.

    I am guessing he is the type that shakes hands with people who are not
    there, too.



    ... How do you tell when you're out of invisible ink?
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Matthew Munson on Thu Aug 18 16:36:44 2022
    Matthew Munson wrote to IB Joe <=-

    No... I heard him say it...
    and with SB 107 they will also subsidize castrating young children from out of state. YAY! (/sarcasm)

    Waiting for Alan to tell you that California is not considering that, claim that someone else brought it up, and then claim he never told you that California was not considering that.



    ... Goodness! That was close! I almost gave a damn.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 18 16:43:11 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that
    this is not happening in his state of residence?

    I never told Matt that anything was or was not happening in his
    state.

    You're quoting the above as if *I* said that. I did not.

    He does that... ALL. THE. TIME. It is up to you to determine who said
    it, whether or not Alan really said what he did, and whether or not Alan
    said what he meant or really "said" something else.

    The *ACTUAL* *TOPIC* being discussed in this thread was whether
    Kalifornia was paying for abortions for out of staters (and illegal aliens), at taxpayer expense. They are. Since you're not a Kalifornia resident you think that's just fine. What if you were paying taxes
    there, would you still think it's a great idea?

    Exactly!!!! Alan is the one who added "travel expenses" to Matt's thread.

    So, Alan has proven that something he brought into the conversation was not true. Good for him!



    ... Spelling is a sober man's game
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 18 16:48:55 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Mike,

    She set it on fire, and it was after 20 weeks which, at the time, was the cut-off in her state between what is believed potentially viable and what is not.

    Potentially viable at 20 weeks? You have a weird sense of humour ...

    This can simply be googled even...

    "...which, at the time, was the cut-off in her state between what is believed potentially viable..."

    What part of that did you not understand as not being my opinion but her state's?

    I seem to remember that whatever cut-off your country observes, it was
    after that also.


    ... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 18 16:51:06 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Mutilation of a corpse? Who established what?

    She set it on fire, and it was after 20 weeks which, at the time, was the cut-off in her state between what is believed potentially viable and what is not.

    She had an abotion. That was a choice she made. That is not mutilation
    of a corpse.

    Which, by the time she did it and the way she did it, was a crime in her
    state. If she waited long enough for it to be considered beyond the point
    where she could get an abortion, that indeed makes it mutilation of a
    corpse.

    It does not matter whether we think the abortion should have been legal or
    not.

    ... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Alan Ianson on Thu Aug 18 16:53:37 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    No, that is the story that Matt, a California resident who led off this discussion by telling us what California is planning, told.

    I was not commenting an anything Matt said.

    IB Joe said California was going to pay travel costs.

    YOU ANSWERED MATT'S MESSAGE WITH THE COMMENT ABOVE, telling Matt he was
    wrong because you thought Matt was repeating "a story IB Joe was telling."

    Matt and I were not talking about this. Matt has said nothing about
    travel expenses that I recall.

    You were answering Matt, so either he did bring it up, or you were questioning something else. Learn to read.


    ... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Thu Aug 18 16:56:16 2022
    Alan Ianson wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    But don't let the facts get in your way.

    Yes, Alan does not need any competition in this department.


    ... Keep your stick on the ice
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Powell on Fri Aug 19 02:03:59 2022
    Mike,

    What part of that did you not understand as not being my opinion but her state's?

    A state cannot have an opinion.

    It is a medical certainty in neonatology that before 24 weeks the foetus stands no chance. That is based on medical science.

    If a state's legislature decides on 20 weeks despite all medical data, then they're all dingbats that should be ashamed of themselves.

    I seem to remember that whatever cut-off your country observes, it was after that also.

    Prior to 24 weeks here as a rule no effort will be made to start therapy. Most babies will die within 20-30 minutes. Medical staff will clean it and hand it to the mother so she can hold it for a few minutes while it still is alive. These babies suffer extreme pains and are disturbed because they sense they are dying. Staff is trained to perform massage to make them feel comfortable and will sedate them to stop the suffering, even if they're just minutes away from death.

    Ever seen a 20 week old foetus? Because I have when my oldest daughter miscarried at about that timespan. Absolutely not viable ...

    The other daughter worked for several years in neonatology ... I have the correct information first hand ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Mike Powell on Thu Aug 18 17:00:49 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    She had an abotion. That was a choice she made. That is not mutilation of a corpse.

    Which, by the time she did it and the way she did it, was a crime in her state. If she waited long enough for it to be considered beyond the point where she could get an abortion, that indeed makes it mutilation of a corpse.

    She did not mutilate any corpse. She had an abortion.

    It does not matter whether we think the abortion should have been legal or not.

    I never said it did. I just said that she had an abortion. Abortion is not
    the same as mutilation.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter, cuz nobody listens

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757.2 to Mike Powell on Thu Aug 18 17:06:49 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I was not commenting an anything Matt said.

    IB Joe said California was going to pay travel costs.

    YOU ANSWERED MATT'S MESSAGE WITH THE COMMENT ABOVE, telling Matt he was wrong because you thought Matt was repeating "a story IB Joe was telling."

    What I say to you and what I say to Matt are two (very) different things.

    Matt and I were not talking about this. Matt has said nothing about travel expenses that I recall.

    You were answering Matt, so either he did bring it up, or you were questioning something else. Learn to read.

    No, Matt never brought it up that I know of. IB Joe did.

    You seem to read a lot into what I say that I never did.

    I think we are clear now that California is not paying travel expenses of
    out of state travelers? That is the meat of it.

    Ttyl,
    Al

    ... Bug free, cheap, on time, works. Pick two

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.2 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: Equinox BBS - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)
  • From Alexander Grotewohl@1:120/616 to Ward Dossche on Thu Aug 18 21:28:30 2022
    On 19 Aug 2022, Ward Dossche said the following...

    It is a medical certainty in neonatology that before 24 weeks the foetus stands no chance. That is based on medical science.

    If a state's legislature decides on 20 weeks despite all medical data, then they're all dingbats that should be ashamed of themselves.

    you have done this a few times now. the viability you keep talking about is *outside* the mother, and cannot be applied to an unborn child. since by and
    far the majority of times the baby will make it into viability if it stays in the mother until it's supposed to.

    you're completely ignoring the unnatural state these premie/unviable babies are put in to.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Thu Aug 18 21:34:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    So are you still going to tell Matt, a California resident, that
    this is not happening in his state of residence?

    I'm sure he will. Alan doesn't appear to let facts get in the way of
    his opinions and posts. That's what happens when you drink as much of
    the Koolaid as he apparently has.

    As for letting facts get in the way, that has never mattered for
    Alan. If you catch him making an error, he either "didn't say
    that!" or claims he was talking to someone other than the person
    he was responding to.

    I'm seeing that in nearly every post he makes.

    You know, it's funny... the three main doofus'es involved in this
    argument are *ALL* not living in the US, and yet.... they know
    everything there is to know about living in the US, and are eager to
    tell those who *DO* live in the US all about it. They know *ALL* info
    about our laws, and are positive that their opinions matter more than
    any USA citizen's. Oh yeah, all three of them are unashamed leftists,
    I'm sure that's just a coincidence. <EYEROLL>



    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Thu Aug 18 21:36:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    You're quoting the above as if *I* said that. I did not.

    He does that... ALL. THE. TIME. It is up to you to determine
    who said it, whether or not Alan really said what he did, and
    whether or not Alan said what he meant or really "said" something
    else.

    I'm seeing that, with nearly every post he makes.

    The *ACTUAL* *TOPIC* being discussed in this thread was whether
    Kalifornia was paying for abortions for out of staters (and illegal aliens), at taxpayer expense. They are. Since you're not a Kalifornia resident you think that's just fine. What if you were paying taxes
    there, would you still think it's a great idea?

    Exactly!!!! Alan is the one who added "travel expenses" to
    Matt's thread.

    Indeed he did. A very common leftist/liberal tactic - attempting to divert/deceive the actual discussion topic, because it's not going to go
    their way otherwise.


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 19 00:29:00 2022
    On 08-18-22 10:46, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Snitch Country <=-


    Dale,

    Yes, now please tell the complete story ...

    ?? I did tell the complete story. What do you think was withheld?

    Nothing in the world is free, someone/something is
    paying...for example the military...

    Yes, I have insurance and that insurance paid it all. I pay a
    reasonable amount for that insurance.
    You have insurance. I suspect that it is paid for in part or in total
    by your government.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)



    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 00:32:11, 19 Aug 2022
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 19 01:23:48 2022
    On 18 Aug 22 21:34:00, Dan Clough said the following to Mike Powell:

    You know, it's funny... the three main doofus'es involved in this
    argument are *ALL* not living in the US, and yet.... they know
    everything there is to know about living in the US, and are eager to
    tell those who *DO* live in the US all about it. They know *ALL* info about our laws, and are positive that their opinions matter more than
    any USA citizen's. Oh yeah, all three of them are unashamed leftists,
    I'm sure that's just a coincidence. <EYEROLL>

    Its greatly amusing that neither of them don't move up to much larger social platforms where they could lecture a much bigger audience of Americans than the small insignificant fraction here.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 19 08:29:10 2022
    One day you will need to tell the story how Swedish Viggen fighters stopped the Russians from shooting down, or capturing, an SR71 Blackbird...

    I can do better than that, I can let the pilots (from the USAF as well as the SAF) tell their story. We actually didn't know about it in Sweden until 2018, when the mission was unclassified.

    https://youtu.be/y5Z2Bb-wnls


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Fri Aug 19 13:36:30 2022
    Yes, I have insurance and that insurance paid it all. I pay a
    reasonable amount for that insurance.
    You have insurance. I suspect that it is paid for in part or in total
    by your government.

    Hmmmmmm .... it's different organized here than overthere.

    Everybody here is mandatory included in the government organized national health insurance ... there are no private companies involved ... and the government has outsourced the running of this plan to a number of non-for-profit organizations. That's basically it. As a result a doctor's appointment costs something like 3,27 Euro per visit, let's say US$3.00 more or less. Medication which has been approved is virtually free at a ridiculous low cost. That includes dental work, physiotherapy, midwifery ... practically anything within the medical realm...

    There is a portion withheld from the salary which is called "social contributions" and part of that health insurance system is funded from that source. Everybody benefits from it in our country, with similar systems in the surrounding countries and most, if not all, of Europe. "Everybody" meaning exactly that, including the ones that cannot make that social contribution ... the poor ... the socially disadvantaged. Hospitals are subsidized with it, the best equipment, the best care.

    Young kid here needed a drug for a disease of which there are less than a 100 cases worldwide, cost over 2.000.000 Euro ... it was free to the family and paid for by the national healthcare treasure chest.

    On top of that I pay a 34 Euro premium monthly which covers the family for whatever which is not covered. That'll take care of a private room, docter surcharges, medication which has not been approved (e.g. some experimental cancer drugs).

    So no private insurance companies making a big buck, no Obama-care, no anything-else-care ...

    And, yes, abortion is also financed out of that money-pot because it's basic health-care for women, as it is in any enlightened country.

    So it is 'free' but someone/something always pays.

    How does it work in your case?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Fri Aug 19 13:40:54 2022
    I can do better than that, ...

    How 'bout that Bofors gatling-gun system that shoots anti-ship missiles out of the sky? In heavy demand by "certain" navies?

    And how 'bout that very first overflight of a stealth-plane on a stealth test mission which was immediately found-out during disturbance of the air layers? Or was that the Netherlands?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Nick Andre on Fri Aug 19 09:02:00 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    You know, it's funny... the three main doofus'es involved in this
    argument are *ALL* not living in the US, and yet.... they know
    everything there is to know about living in the US, and are eager to
    tell those who *DO* live in the US all about it. They know *ALL* info about our laws, and are positive that their opinions matter more than
    any USA citizen's. Oh yeah, all three of them are unashamed leftists,
    I'm sure that's just a coincidence. <EYEROLL>

    Its greatly amusing that neither of them don't move up to much
    larger social platforms where they could lecture a much bigger
    audience of Americans than the small insignificant fraction here.

    I guess they realize that with a larger audience they'd get overwhelmed
    and shouted down by the large number of people who would recognize
    bullshit when they hear it. ;-)



    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 19 09:17:10 2022
    On 16 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    I have put more time than I care to on this topic...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ1YdTNpx3A

    Here is a news reporter... ~ 3:35 into this video she talks about Gavin's efforts to pay for out-of-state abortions...

    Headlines LA Times

    California would subsidize abortion services for uninsured, out-of-state patients under Newsom plan

    Why would ABC News have this headline...

    California budget won't cover out-of-state abortion travel

    Why would the representatives in California be looking into budget of for out of state abortions if someone like Gavin did say something

    Washington Examiner headlines, as reported by MSN...

    Report recommends taxpayers pay expenses for out-of-state abortions in California

    Snippet from the story...
    Should the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade, reproductive rights advocates say California should fund travel expenses like gas, lodging, transportation and child care for in-state and out-of-state patients seeking an abortion.

    The Wall Street Journal Headline....
    California May Pay Expenses for Women Seeking Abortions From Other States

    CBN News Headline...
    This State Plans to Become America's Abortion Destination, Paying for Exponential increase in Abortions

    Def-Con News Headline...
    California To Become Abortion Sanctuary With Paid Travel And Lodging

    I used DuckDuckGo and searched "california to pay for out of state abortions"

    I spent less than 60 seconds to find these headlines. These headlines didn't come about because a message I posted in Fido.... They are there because of a Narrative the left wants to push...

    I didn't make things up... and y'all need to put a little work into things...

    :)

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Alan Ianson on Fri Aug 19 09:18:39 2022
    On 17 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    What makes you think California is going to pay travel costs?


    I just posted a lengthy message pointing out where I got this

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... "No comment" is a comment.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Aug 19 09:28:23 2022
    On 18 Aug 2022, Michiel van der Vlist said the following...
    It might be my prostate... but I piss Red, White & Blue!!!

    You have Dutch ancestry?

    https://www.vlaggen.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Nederland-vlag.jpg


    Though I wouldn't put it past any of my ancestors to have had coitus with someone whop was Dutch... I do feel that my Red, White and Blue piss is more American... Every time it happens I swear to God I hear Trump say... "And We Will Make America Great Again"... And I hear the YMCA song at random points though out my day...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... "I am" is the shortest sentence in English. Is 'I do' the longest?

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Fri Aug 19 15:27:59 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Indeed he did. A very common leftist/liberal tactic - attempting to divert/deceive the actual discussion topic, because it's not going to
    go their way otherwise.

    In his case, it could be an honest mistake, just like when Biden shakes
    hands with thin air.

    You know, it's funny... the three main doofus'es involved in this
    argument are *ALL* not living in the US, and yet.... they know
    everything there is to know about living in the US, and are eager to
    tell those who *DO* live in the US all about it. They know *ALL* info about our laws, and are positive that their opinions matter more than
    any USA citizen's.

    I guess their own countries are too boring to talk about.



    ... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Fri Aug 19 15:32:27 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    It is a medical certainty in neonatology that before 24 weeks the
    foetus stands no chance. That is based on medical science.

    If a state's legislature decides on 20 weeks despite all medical data, then they're all dingbats that should be ashamed of themselves.

    The state cutoff was 20 weeks. She was over that and would have been
    closer to 23-24 weeks.

    Prior to 24 weeks here as a rule no effort will be made to start
    therapy. Most babies will die within 20-30 minutes. Medical staff will clean it and hand it to the mother so she can hold it for a few minutes while it still is alive. These babies suffer extreme pains and are disturbed because they sense they are dying. Staff is trained to
    perform massage to make them feel comfortable and will sedate them to
    stop the suffering, even if they're just minutes away from death.

    So these ~24 week babies can sense "extreme pain," similar maybe to the
    pain of being set on fire?


    ... DalekDOS v(overflow): (I)Obey (V)ision impaired (E)xterminate
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dale Shipp on Fri Aug 19 15:34:54 2022
    Dale Shipp wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    ?? I did tell the complete story. What do you think was withheld?

    Nothing in the world is free, someone/something is
    paying...for example the military...

    Yes, I have insurance and that insurance paid it all. I pay a
    reasonable amount for that insurance.
    You have insurance. I suspect that it is paid for in part or in total
    by your government.

    Which, if that is the case, means that he is paying for it with his taxes, unless he pays none.

    Even if you both paid $0 out of pocket, his is better because, you know, he
    is European and you are not.



    ... Direct from the Ministry of Silly Walks
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to IB Joe on Fri Aug 19 15:41:52 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    On 16 Aug 2022, Alan Ianson said the following...

    That's just a story IB Joe was telling.

    I have put more time than I care to on this topic...

    If you keep talking to Alan, you will continue putting more time into it as
    he spins-and-spins the converstation here and there, claims he didn't say things he did, claims others said things they didn't, etc... When it comes
    to politics, that is his way.

    Why would ABC News have this headline...

    California budget won't cover out-of-state abortion travel

    Why would the representatives in California be looking into budget of
    for out of state abortions if someone like Gavin did say something

    I will save Alan the trouble, "that is just a story IB Joe was telling." :)

    Washington Examiner headlines, as reported by MSN...

    Report recommends taxpayers pay expenses for out-of-state abortions in California

    Snippet from the story...
    Should the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade, reproductive rights advocates say California should fund travel expenses like gas, lodging, transportation and child care for in-state and out-of-state patients seeking an abortion.

    I will save Alan the trouble, "that is just a story IB Joe was telling." :)

    Def-Con News Headline...
    California To Become Abortion Sanctuary With Paid Travel And Lodging

    I will save Alan the trouble, "that is just a story IB Joe was telling." :)

    I used DuckDuckGo and searched "california to pay for out of state abortions"

    I spent less than 60 seconds to find these headlines. These headlines didn't come about because a message I posted in Fido.... They are there because of a Narrative the left wants to push...

    I didn't make things up... and y'all need to put a little work into things...

    The only work Alan will do is spin it around, claim he didn't say what he
    said, claim he was responding to someone else, etc.



    ... Keep your stick on the ice
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Nick Andre on Fri Aug 19 15:45:59 2022
    Nick Andre wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    On 18 Aug 22 21:34:00, Dan Clough said the following to Mike Powell:

    You know, it's funny... the three main doofus'es involved in this
    argument are *ALL* not living in the US, and yet.... they know
    everything there is to know about living in the US, and are eager to
    tell those who *DO* live in the US all about it. They know *ALL* info about our laws, and are positive that their opinions matter more than
    any USA citizen's. Oh yeah, all three of them are unashamed leftists,
    I'm sure that's just a coincidence. <EYEROLL>

    Its greatly amusing that neither of them don't move up to much larger social platforms where they could lecture a much bigger audience of Americans than the small insignificant fraction here.

    That we know of. ;) I don't plan to go looking.



    ... Spelling is a sober man's game
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Fri Aug 19 20:47:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

    It is a medical certainty in neonatology that before 24 weeks the
    foetus stands no chance. That is based on medical science.

    If a state's legislature decides on 20 weeks despite all medical data, then they're all dingbats that should be ashamed of themselves.

    The state cutoff was 20 weeks. She was over that and would have
    been closer to 23-24 weeks.

    Yes, and Ward's claim about being dingbats is irrelevant (as usual),
    because it doesn't matter. IT IS/WAS APPROVED STATE LAW.

    Prior to 24 weeks here as a rule no effort will be made to start
    therapy. Most babies will die within 20-30 minutes. Medical staff will clean it and hand it to the mother so she can hold it for a few minutes while it still is alive. These babies suffer extreme pains and are disturbed because they sense they are dying. Staff is trained to
    perform massage to make them feel comfortable and will sedate them to
    stop the suffering, even if they're just minutes away from death.

    So these ~24 week babies can sense "extreme pain," similar maybe
    to the pain of being set on fire?

    Or perhaps the pain of being ripped apart by a pair of steel forceps?
    Having your limbs pulled from your body, maybe might hurt a little?

    Oh, and you've also caught him in another lie... If these babies (notice
    he's not calling it a 'fetus' any more) aren't really humans yet, how
    can they "sense that they are dying"? Kinda goes against the 'viable' narrative, wouldn't you say? Right, Ward?

    I swear, the hypocrisy of Lefties is beyond belief.



    ... Post may contain information unsuitable for overly sensitive persons.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Fri Aug 19 21:04:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Indeed he did. A very common leftist/liberal tactic - attempting to divert/deceive the actual discussion topic, because it's not going to
    go their way otherwise.

    In his case, it could be an honest mistake, just like when Biden
    shakes hands with thin air.

    Hahaha, yep.

    You know, it's funny... the three main doofus'es involved in this
    argument are *ALL* not living in the US, and yet.... they know
    everything there is to know about living in the US, and are eager to
    tell those who *DO* live in the US all about it. They know *ALL* info about our laws, and are positive that their opinions matter more than
    any USA citizen's.

    I guess their own countries are too boring to talk about.

    Or.... by talking incessantly about how imperfect the US is, any
    conversation about the actual shit-hole status of their own countries is avoided... It's another very common Lefty tactic.


    ... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ib Joe on Fri Aug 19 20:01:50 2022
    I have put more time than I care to on this topic...

    You haven't put much care at all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ1YdTNpx3A

    This story is about roe v. wade.

    Here is a news reporter... ~ 3:35 into this video she talks about Gavin's efforts to pay for out-of-state abortions...

    No, that is not what she said.

    Headlines LA Times

    California would subsidize abortion services for uninsured, out-of-state patients under Newsom plan

    You didn't provide a link but sure, we all realize that California provides health care for people in California as well as out of state travelers.

    Why would ABC News have this headline...

    California budget won't cover out-of-state abortion travel
    Why would the representatives in California be looking into budget of for out of state abortions if someone like Gavin did say something

    You didn't provide a link here either. It says (clearly) above that California won't cover out of state travel.

    Washington Examiner headlines, as reported by MSN...

    No link here either.

    Report recommends taxpayers pay expenses for out-of-state abortions in California Snippet from the story...

    Should the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade, reproductive rights advocates say California should fund travel expenses like gas, lodging, transportation and child care for in-state and out-of-state patients seeking an abortion.

    No link again. Reproductive rights advocates are saying this.

    The Wall Street Journal Headline....

    No link again.

    California May Pay Expenses for Women Seeking Abortions From Other States

    CBN News Headline...

    This State Plans to Become America's Abortion Destination, Paying for Exponential increase in Abortions

    This might be an interesting read if you had provided a link.

    Def-Con News Headline...

    California To Become Abortion Sanctuary With Paid Travel And Lodging

    No link again. I'm not interested in reading every bloggers whateveritis.

    I used DuckDuckGo and searched "california to pay for out of state abortions"

    That's what I did to and there is no such thing as California paying travel costs of out state visitors.

    I spent less than 60 seconds to find these headlines. These headlines didn't come about because a message I posted in Fido.... They are there because of a Narrative the left wants to push...

    You are trying to push this not "the left".

    I didn't make things up... and y'all need to put a little work into things... :)

    California is not paying travel expenses. It just isn't.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 20 01:21:00 2022
    On 08-19-22 13:36, Ward Dossche <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Snitch Country <=-


    Yes, I have insurance and that insurance paid it all. I pay a
    reasonable amount for that insurance.
    You have insurance. I suspect that it is paid for in part or in total
    by your government.

    There is a portion withheld from the salary which is called "social contributions" and part of that health insurance system is
    funded from that source.

    Is that a flat fee for all or is it income based? About how much is it
    for a normal worker?
    How much of the other income taxes goes into paying for medical?

    I my case, I have an insurance plan that is subsidized by the federal government as a part of my having worked for the federal government
    before I retired from them. I pay a part of that insurance, I think it
    amounts to about US$300 per month out of my pocket. Almost every
    medical procedure / doctor visit is covered with no copay. There is
    only limited dental and vision benefits however.

    I can add that 45 or 50 years ago, I worked in England and was covered
    under their national health system. In several ways, it was
    substandard. There were long delays and limited availability of
    doctors. At that time I also carried a small private insurance and that
    helped cut the delay times and gave my family access to better selection
    of doctors.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


    ... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:33:43, 20 Aug 2022
    ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

    --- Maximus/NT 3.01
    * Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 20 10:04:03 2022
    Dan,

    Or perhaps the pain of being ripped apart by a pair of steel forceps? Having your limbs pulled from your body, maybe might hurt a little?

    It seems you have no idea how an abortion works ... it's a mere pill, or two pills ... Ever 'seen' an abortion, Dan? If forceps are shown, it's something else...probably a propaganda video.

    Oh, and you've also caught him in another lie... If these babies (notice he's not calling it a 'fetus' any more) aren't really humans yet, how
    can they "sense that they are dying"? Kinda goes against the 'viable' narrative, wouldn't you say? Right, Ward?

    If a non-viable foetus is born, then it is a baby. There will be a birth-certificate and a death-certificate and an official burrial (with all the costs involved of an undertaker or so). Most cemetaries do have a childrens lot, very small graves.

    Those babies have way underdeveloped lungs and can't breathe properly, they will suffocate to death.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 20 10:34:09 2022
    Dan,

    Or.... by talking incessantly about how imperfect the US is, any conversation about the actual shit-hole status of their own countries is avoided... It's another very common Lefty tactic.

    Go ahead, say something bad about my country...

    I'll start ... there's a small statue in Brussels of small boy with a naked penis and he pisses into a fountain. On the national day, he pisses beer.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dale Shipp on Sat Aug 20 10:38:22 2022
    Hi Dale,

    There is a portion withheld from the salary which is called "social DS>WD> contributions" and part of that health insurance system is
    funded from that source.

    Is that a flat fee for all or is it income based?

    It's income based. There's also a mandatory employer's portion which I have no information about.

    About how much is it for a normal worker?

    I don't know, we're all making too much. But I looked at a salary slip of my son and it seems like it's some 14%, that is pre-taxes. This is the social security payment which goes into healthcare, pension-fund, scholarships, unemployment, more stuff.

    How much of the other income taxes goes into paying for medical?

    No clue.

    I my case, I have an insurance plan that is subsidized by the federal government as a part of my having worked for the federal government
    before I retired from them. I pay a part of that insurance, I think it amounts to about US$300 per month out of my pocket. Almost every
    medical procedure / doctor visit is covered with no copay. There is
    only limited dental and vision benefits however.

    OK. The legal system here is that the moment you work, you are enrolled in the system automatically, often even when you just run a student's summer job, and start accumulating benefits. When becoming unemployed you do not lose the benefits.

    Some of those benefits include help prior to and after childbirth. You will get a free stroller for example, get a %-off at specific stores when buying a car-seat, you get a free baby-carrier, scholarships, social vacations, ...

    Of course ... "free" ... nothing's free ... someone somewhere in the system also pays for that and doesn't use the benefit. And "no", it's not an opt-in/opt-out story.

    I can add that 45 or 50 years ago, I worked in England and was covered under their national health system. In several ways, it was
    substandard. There were long delays and limited availability of
    doctors. At that time I also carried a small private insurance and that helped cut the delay times and gave my family access to better selection
    of doctors.

    I believe that ... England is a different world and we often joke about people living on an island, but there's some truth. I may hope services there have now improved (after all, they manage to keep their queen afoot) but until rather recently there was an influx of English women to come here and have childbirth here because of the better care. London is now just a trainride away and it was easy with the UK a member of the EU as birth certificates would be from another country if you needed one. Now with Brexit done that becomes less obvious.

    Enjoy the week-end,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Sat Aug 20 06:11:28 2022
    On 19 Aug 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

    The only work Alan will do is spin it around, claim he didn't say what he said, claim he was responding to someone else, etc.


    He must be a democrat

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

    ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit...

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/11 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:23 SSH:22 HTTP:80 (1:342/200)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 20 09:04:52 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    Oh, and you've also caught him in another lie... If these babies
    (notice he's not calling it a 'fetus' any more) aren't really humans
    yet, how can they "sense that they are dying"? Kinda goes against the 'viable' narrative, wouldn't you say? Right, Ward?

    In this case, I think "not viable" means they cannot sustain life once
    born, not even with assistance. As he was talking about miscarriages, I
    guess that makes them a "baby/human" vs. a fetus since they were born on
    their own instead of being forced-born by choice of the mother?

    I don't see the difference, but I guess someone who thinks different might.




    ... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Dan Clough on Sat Aug 20 09:06:30 2022
    Dan Clough wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    I guess their own countries are too boring to talk about.

    Or.... by talking incessantly about how imperfect the US is, any conversation about the actual shit-hole status of their own countries
    is avoided... It's another very common Lefty tactic.

    In the case of the one on our continent, if you try asking him questions
    about his own government or, in particular, their PM, he will usually
    deflect or decline to answer... unless maybe it is about health care.


    ... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
    --- MultiMail/DOS
    * Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to Ward Dossche on Sat Aug 20 09:18:00 2022
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Or perhaps the pain of being ripped apart by a pair of steel forceps? Having your limbs pulled from your body, maybe might hurt a little?

    It seems you have no idea how an abortion works ... it's a mere pill,
    or two pills ... Ever 'seen' an abortion, Dan? If forceps are shown,
    it's something else...probably a propaganda video.

    It depends on where you have it done and what kind. At one of the clinics
    in my state, you had a choice. You could do the pill route, which
    meant you had to go through most of it without a doctor present, and you
    had to make a return visit for a check-up after, or you could have it
    done same day, in office. The latter was indeed an invasive procedure but, barring complications, you did not have to return and you did not have to
    wait for the medication to do its thing.

    If a non-viable foetus is born, then it is a baby. There will be a birth-certificate and a death-certificate and an official burrial (with all the costs involved of an undertaker or so). Most cemetaries do have
    a childrens lot, very small graves.

    Those babies have way underdeveloped lungs and can't breathe properly, they will suffocate to death.

    Like I told Dan, the difference between "baby" vs. "foetus" is born on its own vs. forced-born, or "the mother wanted it" vs. "the mother didn't." That is not a very scientific difference.


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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Sat Aug 20 10:31:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Oh, and you've also caught him in another lie... If these babies
    (notice he's not calling it a 'fetus' any more) aren't really humans
    yet, how can they "sense that they are dying"? Kinda goes against the 'viable' narrative, wouldn't you say? Right, Ward?

    In this case, I think "not viable" means they cannot sustain life
    once born, not even with assistance. As he was talking about miscarriages, I guess that makes them a "baby/human" vs. a fetus
    since they were born on their own instead of being forced-born by
    choice of the mother?

    Yes, you're probably right on this.

    I don't see the difference, but I guess someone who thinks
    different might.

    Same.


    ... All the easy problems have been solved.
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  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Mike Powell on Sat Aug 20 10:37:00 2022
    Mike Powell wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    I guess their own countries are too boring to talk about.

    Or.... by talking incessantly about how imperfect the US is, any conversation about the actual shit-hole status of their own countries
    is avoided... It's another very common Lefty tactic.

    In the case of the one on our continent, if you try asking him
    questions about his own government or, in particular, their PM,
    he will usually deflect or decline to answer... unless maybe it
    is about health care.

    Yep, no surprise there - another classic Lefty behavior.

    I'd say their behavior is what pet-owners know as "small dog syndrome".
    I know because I have a small dog. It's where the dog seems to know
    it's small, and therefore over-compensates in trying to act "big and
    tough". Aggressive and barking at things to try and make himself seem
    bigger. Apparently when a human with low self-esteem lives in a country
    which is basically meaningless on the world stage, they tend to act the
    same way, to try and make themselves (and their useless country) seem
    more important. Makes some sense; all we can do is laugh at them. ;-)



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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to IB Joe on Thu Aug 18 07:09:00 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Matthew Munson <=-

    People are leaving California in droves... this could be one of the reasons...

    Could be, yes, but the cost of living is more likely.


    ... Strange Medicine on the Desert...a Crisis of Confidence
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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/107 to IB Joe on Sun Aug 21 08:28:28 2022
    IB Joe wrote to Mike Powell <=-

    On 19 Aug 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

    The only work Alan will do is spin it around, claim he didn't say what he said, claim he was responding to someone else, etc.


    He must be a democrat

    The Canadian equivalent, I would guess so.


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  • From IB Joe@1:342/200 to Mike Powell on Mon Aug 22 08:52:40 2022
    On 21 Aug 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

    He must be a democrat

    The Canadian equivalent, I would guess so.


    OMG, not a Liberal...

    IB Joe
    AKA Joe Schweier
    SysOp of Joe's BBS
    -=JoesBBS.com=-

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  • From Mike Miller@1:154/30.1 to Björn Felten on Tue Aug 30 14:10:49 2022
    Hello, Björn Felten.
    On 8/11/22 6:22 PM you wrote:

    You should look into the a little further... apparently her and
    her mother aborted her baby... without a DR... Burned the baby...
    put it in a grave.... dug it back up to burn it some more and put
    it back in the ground...
    You forgot that they finally ate the now well done baby. With
    French fries, ketchup and mustard.
    ..
    Must be atheists. Everyone knows only atheists eat babies.

    --
    Mike
    BBS: warensemble.com
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Mike Miller on Tue Aug 30 22:40:08 2022
    Must be atheists. Everyone knows only atheists eat babies.

    That's why they are called "ate-ist"

    \%/@rd

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