• Re: NAT and ISPs

    From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Flavio Bessa on Wed Mar 23 14:41:00 2022
    On 03-13-22 23:13, Flavio Bessa wrote to All <=-

    Hello folks,

    Our BBSing experiences in Brazil are being affected by a decision taken
    by some ISPs a few months ago: Many of them are not offering public
    IPv4 addresses anymore, which is affecting the capabilities of some systems to be accessed.

    I think we'll be seeing more of this. :(

    That happened with Ninho do Abutre, from our fellow sysop Mauro Veiga.

    We are trying to come up with solutions to his issue... The only things
    I can think of would be migrating his system to IPV6 (if available by
    his ISP) or establishing a VPN towards another system in the cloud with public IPv4s available.

    Has any of you faced a similar issue? Any other things that we can try
    it out?

    I've only faced it in a self inflicted sense, because of the sheer number of systems I want to be Internet accessible. And both solutions work. I'm fully native on IPv6, and my BBSs are IPv6 reachable. I also run a VPN to route a /16 of IPv4, which I use for select systems. So you can say I'm proof of both solutions being viable.

    IPv6 requires either your ISP to provide native IPv6 connectivity (the ideal), or use a tunnel service like he.net. For IPv4, you will need to establish a server somewhere, to act as your VPN router, and use a VPN system like OpenVPN or Wireguard. The VPS provider may only give you a single public IP, but you can then use iptables (assuming a Linux server) to add NAT and port forward to your BBS.

    And that illustrates yet another solution - host the BBS on a VPS in the cloud, which will solve your IPv4 issue as well.



    ... Copper wire was invented by two Ferengi fighting over a penny.
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Wed Mar 23 11:40:23 2022
    Hello Tony,

    On Wednesday March 23 2022 14:41, you wrote to Flavio Bessa:

    Our BBSing experiences in Brazil are being affected by a decision
    taken by some ISPs a few months ago: Many of them are not
    offering public IPv4 addresses anymore, which is affecting the
    capabilities of some systems to be accessed.

    I think we'll be seeing more of this. :(

    No doubt we eill see more of it. I see no reason for the ":(" though.

    IPv6 is the future and we have seen that it is very well doable to run a Fidonet node on IPv6 without a public IPv4 address. The list of IPv6 capable nodes has grown to over a hundred and that is enough for critical mass. What should have happened ten years ago will now become unavoidable. With a going rate of EUR 50 for a public IPv4 address providers that have run out of IPv4 will have no choice but to offer IPv6 to their customers.

    If you have any IPv4 to spare, better sell it now before the bubble bursts. :-)

    ... Copper wire was invented by two Ferengi fighting over a penny.

    Really? The Belgians say is was invented by the Dutch...


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Mar 25 20:09:00 2022
    On 03-23-22 11:40, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    No doubt we eill see more of it. I see no reason for the ":(" though.

    It does entrench attitudes and behaviours though.

    IPv6 is the future and we have seen that it is very well doable to run
    a Fidonet node on IPv6 without a public IPv4 address. The list of IPv6 capable nodes has grown to over a hundred and that is enough for
    critical mass. What should have happened ten years ago will now become unavoidable. With a going rate of EUR 50 for a public IPv4 address providers that have run out of IPv4 will have no choice but to offer
    IPv6 to their customers.

    It's coming sooner or later (here for some of us).

    If you have any IPv4 to spare, better sell it now before the bubble bursts. :-)

    Got plenty, none of it's mine though. My /28 belongs to a networking group, and my /24 belongs to ARDC.

    ... Copper wire was invented by two Ferengi fighting over a penny.

    Really? The Belgians say is was invented by the Dutch...

    Hmm, not sure what that's about. :P


    ... How would someone else do it?
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Sun Mar 27 14:33:02 2022

    Hello Tony,

    On Friday March 25 2022 20:09, you wrote to me:

    If you have any IPv4 to spare, better sell it now before the
    bubble bursts. :-)

    Got plenty, none of it's mine though. My /28 belongs to a networking group, and my /24 belongs to ARDC.

    That /24 may not last forever. ARDC has already sold a substantial part of their original /8 and with a going price of $50 for an IPv4 address they may be tempted to sell more before the bubble burst.

    It does not take a crystal ball to see that the IPv4 trade is a bubble that WILL burst in the foreseeable future.

    ... Copper wire was invented by two Ferengi fighting over a
    penny.

    Really? The Belgians say is was invented by the Dutch...

    Hmm, not sure what that's about. :P

    Do Australians make jokes about New Zealanders and vice versa? It is the same between the Dutch and the Belgians...


    Cheers, Michiel

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    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Andre Robitaille@1:154/70 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Mar 27 08:25:48 2022
    Do Australians make jokes about New Zealanders and vice versa? It is the same between the Dutch and the Belgians...

    Does that really count though? Everybody makes fun of the Dutch.


    - Andre
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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Andre Robitaille on Sun Mar 27 16:16:22 2022
    Hello Andre,

    On Sunday March 27 2022 08:25, you wrote to me:

    Do Australians make jokes about New Zealanders and vice versa? It is
    the same between the Dutch and the Belgians...

    Does that really count though? Everybody makes fun of the Dutch.

    Ze kunnen beter over je fiets lullen, dan over je lul fietsen.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Mar 28 18:05:12 2022
    On 27/03/2022 23:33, Michiel van der Vlist : Tony Langdon wrote:

    MvdV> Do Australians make jokes about New Zealanders and vice versa?

    Most definitely.

    MvdV> It is the same between the Dutch and the Belgians...

    --
    Regards
    David

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  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Apr 1 19:57:00 2022
    On 03-27-22 14:33, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    That /24 may not last forever. ARDC has already sold a substantial part of their original /8 and with a going price of $50 for an IPv4 address they may be tempted to sell more before the bubble burst.

    True, see what happens. :) Hopefully the ham developers will embrace IPv6 more. Newer software, like the M17 infrastructure and IP clients (e.g. DroidStar) do support IPv6, and my M17 reflector is IPv6 capable and had an AAAA record.

    It does not take a crystal ball to see that the IPv4 trade is a bubble that WILL burst in the foreseeable future.

    Yes, there will be a point where everything goes IPv6 and the remains of IPv5 will be little islands connected via IPv6.

    Do Australians make jokes about New Zealanders and vice versa? It is
    the same between the Dutch and the Belgians...

    Yeah we do, for jokes about New Zealanders, it's usually got something to do with sheep. ;)


    ... The answers will be found in the logs.
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