Hello Wilfred,

So the Import/Export function of backbone.na will only import the descriptions of already setup areas?

I have a backbone.na I exported from my BBS, which has:

<ECHOTAG> <DESCRIPTION>

..about 160+ entries. When I try to import it in FConfigW32, it says "1 descriptions imported". Since I already have FMAIL_HELP setup in fconfig, it seems it only imports that description?

areas.bbs worked as expected, but it doesn't seem areas can actually be imported via backbone.na, which is a little odd.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hello Nicholas,

On Thu Aug 17 2017 19:49:38, Nicholas Boel wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:

areas.bbs worked as expected

Let me add to this.. areas.bbs imported echotags and exports. However, it didn't import the JAM MB location/filename for me. Then I had to use the backbone.na I had to import descriptions only.

I hope I can import the location/filename at some point, otherwise I'll have to
do a lot of manual intervention. ;)

And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in areas.bbs before attempting to import.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hi! Nick,

On 17 Aug 17 21:19, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:

And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in areas.bbs
before attempting to import.

With mine I didn't have to, as exported from CM II/lnx. I edited-out the JAM netmail, badmail & dupes areas first. Roughly 168 areas imported complete with
the proper Linux paths!

Based on your prompting, I've just imported 3x backbone.na type files and got 116 area descriptions. I may go back to aiming GoldEd at the FMail directory for area definitions, rather than the hoop-jumpimg with Areas.Bbs & Backbone.Na, etc. Thank you.

Cheers,
Paul.

... In memory of Werner Hartenstein & RMS Laconia - 15 September 1942.
--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Hello Paul,

Fri Aug 18 2017 12:49:20, you wrote to me:

And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in
areas.bbs before attempting to import.

With mine I didn't have to, as exported from CM II/lnx. I edited-out
the JAM netmail, badmail & dupes areas first. Roughly 168 areas
imported complete with the proper Linux paths!

Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field filled in. ;(

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hi! Nicholas,

On Thu, 17 Aug 17, you wrote to me:

Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows
paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the
areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field
filled in. ;(

64-bit Windows 10... going nowhere... fast?!? ;-)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
* Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)

Hi Nicholas,

On 17 Aug 17 19:49, Nicholas Boel wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:
about: "Import/Export":

So the Import/Export function of backbone.na will only import the descriptions of already setup areas?

I have a backbone.na I exported from my BBS, which has:

<ECHOTAG> <DESCRIPTION>

..about 160+ entries. When I try to import it in FConfigW32, it says "1 descriptions imported". Since I already have FMAIL_HELP setup in fconfig, it seems it only imports that description?

areas.bbs worked as expected, but it doesn't seem areas can actually be imported via backbone.na, which is a little odd.

It's not odd, it's what this function does and how it was designed (by the previous author). And it says so in the help line at the bottom of the window in FConfig if you select the function.

I never used or touched the code for this function. But I might just try it to get my area descriptions in a better state...

Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: point@work (2:280/464.112)

Hi Nicholas,

On 17 Aug 17 21:19, Nicholas Boel wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:
about: "Import/Export":

areas.bbs worked as expected

Let me add to this.. areas.bbs imported echotags and exports. However, it didn't import the JAM MB location/filename for me. Then I had to use the backbone.na I had to import descriptions only.

I'll have to look into this...

I hope I can import the location/filename at some point, otherwise
I'll have to do a lot of manual intervention. ;)

And you don't want that if you don't have to! ;)

And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in areas.bbs
before attempting to import.

I don't know if that is of influence...

Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: point@work (2:280/464.112)

Hi Nicholas,

On 17 Aug 17 22:02, Nicholas Boel wrote to Paul Quinn:
about: "Import/Export":

With mine I didn't have to, as exported from CM II/lnx. I edited-out
the JAM netmail, badmail & dupes areas first. Roughly 168 areas
imported complete with the proper Linux paths!

Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field filled in. ;(

Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

Wilfred.

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: point@work (2:280/464.112)

Hi! Wilfred,

On 08/18/2017 05:18 PM, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

Done, about 10mins ago. Please look for 'QuinnsRockMareas.zip' in your (insecure?) inbound.
..
Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny side up on the bookcase (3:640/1384)

Hi Paul,

On 2017-08-18 17:53:49, you wrote to me:

Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you
can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your
initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

Done, about 10mins ago. Please look for 'QuinnsRockMareas.zip' in your (insecure?) inbound.

That's where I found it. Thanks!

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2017 Aug 17 19:49:38, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzin:

So the Import/Export function of backbone.na will only import the descriptions of already setup areas?

that's all most mail tossers ever did with it... the idea was solely to have consistent descriptions of the message areas across all BBSes... definitely not
to build one's message base configuration as has been done by some few in the last decade or so... that's just crazy... autoadd is the way to go so that areas are added only when traffic in them starts flowing ;) ;) ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Now that's fine and dandy.... if you're rich and white.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Paul,

Fri Aug 18 2017 15:11:00, you wrote to me:

Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows
paths in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the
areatags, it didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field
filled in. ;(

64-bit Windows 10... going nowhere... fast?!? ;-)

It was free, so I can't complain. And I can't blame Microsoft for not keeping backwards compatibility for software created in the 80s-90s either.

Then again, who knows if it's even related to the version of Windows or not.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hello Wilfred,

Fri Aug 18 2017 09:26:07, you wrote to me:

It's not odd, it's what this function does and how it was designed (by
the previous author). And it says so in the help line at the bottom of
the window in FConfig if you select the function.

Ok. Just figured it would (or at least *should*) import the echotags with the descriptions. At least that's what most other software I've used does. No need for areas.bbs unless you're importing links.

I never used or touched the code for this function. But I might just
try it to get my area descriptions in a better state...

It would be nice, but obviously it already works as it was originally intended.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hello Wilfred,

Fri Aug 18 2017 09:15:55, you wrote to me:

areas.bbs worked as expected

Let me add to this.. areas.bbs imported echotags and exports.
However, it didn't import the JAM MB location/filename for me.
Then I had to use the backbone.na I had to import descriptions
only.

I'll have to look into this...

Ok.

I hope I can import the location/filename at some point,
otherwise I'll have to do a lot of manual intervention. ;)

And you don't want that if you don't have to! ;)

Exactly. Just added all my other echos to Golded as well as FMail, just no JAM MB location/filename, so it currently doesn't work. I'm slowly adding them in manually but haven't copied over any updated config yet.

And yes, I did convert the paths to Windows structure in
areas.bbs before attempting to import.

I don't know if that is of influence...

I mentioned in a later post I tried both Linux and Windows paths with no luck.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hello Wilfred,

Fri Aug 18 2017 09:18:44, you wrote to me:

Not sure what happened then. I tried both Linux and Windows paths
in my areas.bbs and while fconfig imported the areatags, it
didn't have the JAM MB path/filename field filled in. ;(

Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you
can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your
initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

For the record, I've tried uppercase and lowercase filename "areas.bbs vs AREAS.BBS", and both Windows and Linux paths The one that's in your inbound is Linux paths, which can easily be copy/replaced to Windows format.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hello mark,

Fri Aug 18 2017 05:09:02, you wrote to me:

that's all most mail tossers ever did with it... the idea was solely
to have consistent descriptions of the message areas across all
BBSes... definitely not to build one's message base configuration as
has been done by some few in the last decade or so... that's just
crazy... autoadd is the way to go so that areas are added only when traffic in them starts flowing ;) ;) ;)

Yeah ok. But more like "some everything in the last decade or so". Anything I've used with FTN has imported both the echotag and description. *shrug*

Just as well, at some point the areas.bbs format changed from the old RA MSG format to not include paths as well.

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- FMail-lnx 2.1.0.17-B20170815
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10.1)

Hi Nicholas,

On 2017-08-18 13:36:58, you wrote to Paul Quinn:

64-bit Windows 10... going nowhere... fast?!? ;-)

It was free, so I can't complain. And I can't blame Microsoft for not keeping backwards compatibility for software created in the 80s-90s

either.

FConfigW32.exe is a freshly compiled Win32 executable. Maybe some parts of the source are a decenia or more old, but that's probably also true about the Windows source code! ;)

Then again, who knows if it's even related to the version of Windows
or not.

I doubt that too...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Nicholas,

On 2017-08-18 13:45:16, you wrote to me:

It's not odd, it's what this function does and how it was designed
(by the previous author). And it says so in the help line at the
bottom of the window in FConfig if you select the function.

Ok. Just figured it would (or at least *should*) import the echotags with the descriptions. At least that's what most other software I've used does. No need for areas.bbs unless you're importing links.

That would be a different kind of function...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Nicholas,

On 2017-08-18 14:19:12, you wrote to me:

Maybe your areas.bbs is (a little bit) different from Pauls? If you
can both dump it in my inbound (change the name by adding your
initials or something like that), and I'll have a look...

For the record, I've tried uppercase and lowercase filename "areas.bbs vs AREAS.BBS",

That shouldn't matter. FConfig is still a windows program! ;)

and both Windows and Linux paths The one that's in your inbound is
Linux paths, which can easily be copy/replaced to Windows format.

I'll have a look...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Nicholas,

On 2017-08-18 22:00:09, I wrote to you:

and both Windows and Linux paths The one that's in your inbound is
Linux paths, which can easily be copy/replaced to Windows format.

I'll have a look...

Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of FConfig.
FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!' character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson message base area, where the first field is the board number.
So you should be able to edit your file to get it imported by FConfig.
One other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

I did a little google search for '"areas.bbs" format'. I didn't find much, but what I found suggests that every piece of software using it, has it's own ideas
about the little details.

The golded document: goldref.txt, says this about it:

AreasBBS

GoldED is can handle a wide variety of AREAS.BBS type files. It
can read and distinguish between the old CONFMAIL style with paths
for *.MSG areas, the Hudson/Goldbase style with board numbers, the
Squish style with "$basename" and the JAM style with "!basename".

So I guess FConfig supports Hudson and JAM style.

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2017 Aug 18 22:27:12, you wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different

enough

to not be correctly processed by the import function of FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!' character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson message base area, where

the

first field is the board number. So you should be able to edit your file

to

get it imported by FConfig. One other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

ignoring that first line isn't really a quirk... the first line(s) are generally comment lines... most of the time the contain information about who/what built the file... those comment lines start with a semicolon and there
can be additional comment lines further inside the document but most processors
will not keep them if they rewrite the file...

what i'm trying to say is that the only lines that should be being skipped are those starting with a semicolon...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Charlie was a chemist;Charlie is no more;Charlie thought it wasH20, was H2SO4!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi mark,

On 2017-08-18 19:54:52, you wrote to me:

Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different
enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of
FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!'
character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!'
character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson
message base area, where the first field is the board number. So you
should be able to edit your file to get it imported by FConfig. One
other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

ignoring that first line isn't really a quirk... the first line(s) are generally comment lines... most of the time the contain information about who/what built the file...

Indeed "most of the time", because Pauls areas.bbs first line was a regular line with an area definition...

those comment lines start with a semicolon and there can be additional comment lines further inside the document but most processors will not keep them if they rewrite the file...

what i'm trying to say is that the only lines that should be being skipped are those starting with a semicolon...

FConfig also skips lines starting with a semicolon...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

On 2017 Aug 19 12:19:08, you wrote to me:

Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different
enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of
FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a
'!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!'
character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a
hudson message base area, where the first field is the board number.
So you should be able to edit your file to get it imported by
FConfig. One other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of
the file.

ignoring that first line isn't really a quirk... the first line(s)
are generally comment lines... most of the time the contain
information about who/what built the file...

Indeed "most of the time", because Pauls areas.bbs first line was a regular line with an area definition...

yeah, that's why i said that AREAS.BBS processors should skip comment lines and
not assume things :wink: :wink:

those comment lines start with a semicolon and there can be
additional comment lines further inside the document but most
processors will not keep them if they rewrite the file...

what i'm trying to say is that the only lines that should be being
skipped are those starting with a semicolon...

FConfig also skips lines starting with a semicolon...

that's a GoodThing<tm> but it should not just blindly skip the first line... that's a BadThing<tm>... FConfig is breaking even at this point ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Who is General Failure and why's he reading my hard disk?
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi mark,

On 2017-08-19 13:54:50, you wrote to me:

Indeed "most of the time", because Pauls areas.bbs first line was a
regular line with an area definition...

(I mixed up the two, it was the one from Nicolas)

yeah, that's why i said that AREAS.BBS processors should skip comment lines and not assume things :wink: :wink:

After I'd seen the source, I realised there is some room for improvenment! ;)

FConfig also skips lines starting with a semicolon...

that's a GoodThing<tm> but it should not just blindly skip the first line... that's a BadThing<tm>... FConfig is breaking even at this point ;)

Indeed. It is a bit of luck that it reads the one from Paul, which starts with the following lines:

; Generated by CrashExport 1.0
; Sun Nov 13 11:39:21 2016

Default origin ! Paul Quinn

The ones created by FMail start with:

2:280/464 ! Wilfred van Velzen
; Created by FConfig-W32-2.0.1.2 - Fri Aug 11 13:43:14 2017

That's why it skips the first line...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred,

On Fri Aug 18 2017 22:27:12, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Nicholas Boel:

I'll have a look...

Yours and Pauls are slightly different in format. Yours is different enough to not be correctly processed by the import function of
FConfig. FConfig expects lines defining a Jam area to start with a '!' character followed directly by the filename. If there's no '!'
character as the first character on the line, it reads it as a hudson message base area, where the first field is the board number. So you should be able to edit your file to get it imported by FConfig. One
other quirk to consider: it ignores the first line of the file.

Thanks. This all seemed to do the trick, including adding a comment at the top of the file since it's ignored.

I did a little google search for '"areas.bbs" format'. I didn't find
much, but what I found suggests that every piece of software using it,
has it's own ideas about the little details.

Exactly! For example, Synchronet doesn't use JAM or Hudson, so some other format was probably invented there too.

The golded document: goldref.txt, says this about it:

AreasBBS

GoldED is can handle a wide variety of AREAS.BBS type
files. It
can read and distinguish between the old CONFMAIL style
with paths
for *.MSG areas, the Hudson/Goldbase style with board
numbers, the
Squish style with "$basename" and the JAM style with "!basename".

While Golded may handle a wide variety for import, the only thing I could get it to export was what I gave to you. It didn't include any "!" even though every area defined in fidoconfig was set to JAM.

So I guess FConfig supports Hudson and JAM style.

Ok. Looks like I learned something new today! ;)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)