An interesting post by Rob Swindell:

"What's Wrong With FidoNet?" https://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#what_s_wrong_with_fidonet Summary:
- Backward Compatibility
- Location-based Addressing
- Packet Format
- Siloed Development
- Character Sets
- Node List

(I had read it some time ago, but I've seen it on an othernet and I think it hadn't been posted around here.)

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)

Hello Carlos,

On Saturday April 29 2023 18:00, you wrote to All:

An interesting post by Rob Swindell:

"What's Wrong With FidoNet?" https://wiki.synchro.net/wiki:user:digital_man#what_s_wrong_with_fidon
et
Summary:
- Backward Compatibility
- Location-based Addressing
- Packet Format
- Siloed Development
- Character Sets
- Node List

I was tempted to make some comments. Most of it could be summarized as "every evolving technology has that problem" or "so what, whät is the problem?

But I decided not to, Why? The article is not published in Fidonews and the main topic of this forum is about articles published in Fidonews.

So "no comment" this time.

(I had read it some time ago, but I've seen it on an othernet and I
think it hadn't been posted around here.)

What stops the author from publishing in Fidonews?

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Carlos,

An interesting post by Rob Swindell:

Thank you for bringing that post to our attention. Perhaps Mr.
Swindell might find it worthwhile to have his article(s) published
in the Fidonews, rather than limit his rantings on wikiland and
other such places.

(I had read it some time ago, but I've seen it on an othernet and I think it
hadn't been posted around here.)

It is apparent that Mr. Swindell is not interested in Fidonet or
the Fidonet community. Otherwise, he would have had several articles
published in the Fidonews.

That is my take on the subject.

For Life,
Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Michiel,

[..]

MvdV> I was tempted to make some comments. Most of it could be summarized as
MvdV> "every evolving technology has that problem" or "so what, whät is the
MvdV> problem?

Nothing that I can think of.

MvdV> But I decided not to, Why?

Because you're Dutch?

MvdV> The article is not published in Fidonews and the main topic of this forum is
MvdV> about articles published in Fidonews.

And who's fault is that?

MvdV> So "no comment" this time.

IOW, if folks have something they want to say, have it published
in the Fidonews. And then, and only then, will comments be deemed
worthy to comment on. Please correct me I am wrong.

(I had read it some time ago, but I've seen it on an othernet and I
think it hadn't been posted around here.)

MvdV> What stops the author from publishing in Fidonews?

He read it on the internet. So he deemed it worthy to mention it
in the Fidonews echo. The option to have it published in the Fidonews
is still available, as to the best of my knowledge the current editor
has never ruled it out.

But I could be wrong.

For Life,
Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Thank you for bringing that post to our attention. Perhaps Mr.
Swindell might find it worthwhile to have his article(s) published
in the Fidonews, rather than limit his rantings on wikiland and
other such places.

What's wrong with where it is published?

It is apparent that Mr. Swindell is not interested in Fidonet or
the Fidonet community. Otherwise, he would have had several articles published in the Fidonews.

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN networks, for decades now.

That is my take on the subject.

The Synchronet wiki is a good read for anything BBS related.

I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be a fidonews article. I'm just saying it is fine where it is.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hello Alan,

Thank you for bringing that post to our attention. Perhaps Mr.
Swindell might find it worthwhile to have his article(s) published
in the Fidonews, rather than limit his rantings on wikiland and
other such places.

What's wrong with where it is published?

That is not the issue.

The real issue, as noted by Michiel, is why has Mr. Swindell chosen
not to have his article(s) published in the Fidonews.

It is apparent that Mr. Swindell is not interested in Fidonet or
the Fidonet community. Otherwise, he would have had several articles
published in the Fidonews.

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN networks,
for decades now.

The fact remains that Mr. Swindell has avoided having his article(s)
published in the Fidonews.

That is my take on the subject.

The Synchronet wiki is a good read for anything BBS related.

Please do keep up. The issue is not where else has Mr. Swindell
had his article(s) published. Both me and Michiel have noted this.
I am sure others have, too. Especially Mr. Swindell.

I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be a fidonews article. I'm just saying it is fine where it is.

It is not fine for a nodelisted Fidonet sysop to have ignored the
entire Fidonet of nodelisted sysops by his own refusal to have had
any of his articles published in the Fidonews.

That is my opinion. I believe it is one that is also shared by
most people, whether nodelisted Fidonet sysops or not.

You are, of course, entitled to your own.

For Life,
Lee

--
Say it loud! Say it clear! / Refugees are welcome here!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Thank you for bringing that post to our attention. Perhaps Mr.
Swindell might find it worthwhile to have his article(s) published
in the Fidonews, rather than limit his rantings on wikiland and
other such places.

What's wrong with where it is published?

That is not the issue.

That is my question (that you are avoiding). What is wrong with where it is published?

The real issue, as noted by Michiel, is why has Mr. Swindell chosen
not to have his article(s) published in the Fidonews.

Maybe publication in the Fidonews was never the idea?

It is apparent that Mr. Swindell is not interested in Fidonet or
the Fidonet community. Otherwise, he would have had several articles
published in the Fidonews.

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN
networks, for decades now.

The fact remains that Mr. Swindell has avoided having his article(s) published in the Fidonews.

Maybe publication in the Fidonews was never the idea?

The Synchronet wiki is a good read for anything BBS related.

Please do keep up. The issue is not where else has Mr. Swindell
had his article(s) published. Both me and Michiel have noted this.
I am sure others have, too. Especially Mr. Swindell.

Of course it isn't. The article is published where the author published it.

I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be a fidonews article. I'm just
saying it is fine where it is.

It is not fine for a nodelisted Fidonet sysop to have ignored the
entire Fidonet of nodelisted sysops by his own refusal to have had
any of his articles published in the Fidonews.

Refusal? What refusal?

It is an article he published, you are free to look at it any time you (or anyone) wants to do that.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

30 Apr 2023 11:16, you wrote to me:

I was tempted to make some comments. Most of it could be summarized as "every evolving technology has that problem" or "so what, whät is the problem?

But I decided not to, Why? The article is not published in Fidonews
and the main topic of this forum is about articles published in
Fidonews.

Theoretically...

What echo do you think would have been more appropriate, for this or any general Fidonet-related discussions? (excluding sysop echos)

(I had read it some time ago, but I've seen it on an othernet and
I think it hadn't been posted around here.)

What stops the author from publishing in Fidonews?

I don't know. He doesn't have to, anyway.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)

30 Apr 2023 12:01, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN networks, for decades now.

100% agree.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)

Hello Carlos,

On Monday May 01 2023 09:03, you wrote to me:

But I decided not to, Why? The article is not published in
Fidonews and the main topic of this forum is about articles
published in Fidonews.

Theoretically...

What echo do you think would have been more appropriate, for this or
any general Fidonet-related discussions? (excluding sysop echos)

Any echo that the perticipants deem fit and where the rules allow it. Of course the Fidonews Magazine would be the preferred place for articles about Fidonet. Technical or non technical.

But that is not he issue here. The issue is about an article NOT published in Fiodonews or any Fidonet echo. As I stated I am not going to spend time and energy on commenting on an article that was published elsewhere. If the author of the article choose to not publish it via Fidonet, I choose to not comment on it via Fidonet.

What stops the author from publishing in Fidonews?

I don't know. He doesn't have to, anyway.

Indeed. The author made his choice. And so id I.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Carlos,

I was tempted to make some comments. Most of it could be summarized as
"every evolving technology has that problem" or "so what, whät is the
problem?

But I decided not to, Why? The article is not published in Fidonews
and the main topic of this forum is about articles published in
Fidonews.

Theoretically...

Nothing "theoretical" about it. All Mr. Swindell has to do is have
his article(s) published in the Fidonews. Then we can all talk about
it right here. In this very echo.

What echo do you think would have been more appropriate, for this or any general Fidonet-related discussions? (excluding sysop echos)

The editor has invited all to participate (sysop and non-sysop)
alike. Select topic, write article, have it published in the Fidonews.
Then everybody will talk about it. At least for the next two weeks.
Right here. In this very echo. See how easy that is?

For those who are too illiterate to write, no article needed for
publication in the Fidonews. Just type away whatever your thoughts
are on any topic (if any) ....

(I had read it some time ago, but I've seen it on an othernet and
I think it hadn't been posted around here.)

What stops the author from publishing in Fidonews?

I don't know. He doesn't have to, anyway.

You can be stupid. I can be stupid, too. But is that wise?

For Life,
Lee

--
It's not for women.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Alan,

Thank you for bringing that post to our attention. Perhaps Mr.
Swindell might find it worthwhile to have his article(s) published
in the Fidonews, rather than limit his rantings on wikiland and
other such places.

What's wrong with where it is published?

That is not the issue.

That is my question (that you are avoiding). What is wrong with where it is
published?

The fact that he chose not to have had any of his own articles
published in the Fidonews is the issue. If he was not a nodelisted
Fidonet sysop this would not be an issue. But he is. As such, it
is most definitely an issue. A real issue.

The real issue, as noted by Michiel, is why has Mr. Swindell chosen
not to have his article(s) published in the Fidonews.

Maybe publication in the Fidonews was never the idea?

He is a notelisted Fidonet sysop. And most definitely aware
of articles published in the Fidonews, and the editor's invitation
to all (sysops and non-sysops alike) to send in articles that can
be published in the Fidonews.

It is apparent that Mr. Swindell is not interested in Fidonet or
the Fidonet community. Otherwise, he would have had several articles
published in the Fidonews.

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN
networks, for decades now.

The fact remains that Mr. Swindell has avoided having his article(s)
published in the Fidonews.

Maybe publication in the Fidonews was never the idea?

A very deliberate act, being a nodelisted Fidonet sysop, having
his own articles published elsewhere, critical of how his fellow
sysops in Fidonet run their systems.

That is what Mr. Swindel thinks of Fidonet and how it is run.

The Synchronet wiki is a good read for anything BBS related.

Please do keep up. The issue is not where else has Mr. Swindell
had his article(s) published. Both me and Michiel have noted this.
I am sure others have, too. Especially Mr. Swindell.

Of course it isn't. The article is published where the author published it.

While Synchronet is a good read for its own bbs-related software,
it is not Fidonet. And never was meant to be or act as a replacement.

Mr. Swindell chose to have his article(s) posted in other places,
never in the Fidonews. That is a fact, not an opinion.

If I write an article, I am the creator of that article. As such,
I own all the rights and can do whatever I want (if anything) with
that article. I might just put it away in a drawer and forget all
about it, aside from letting it collect dust.

Mr. Swindell chose of his own volition to have his article(s)
published in venues other than the Fidonews. That is his business,
not mine or anybody else's.

His reasons as to why may be questionable, or even if he has a reason.

But he is the one who made that choice. Not me. Not you. Nobody
else is to blame other than himself.

I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be a fidonews article. I'm just
saying it is fine where it is.

It is not fine for a nodelisted Fidonet sysop to have ignored the
entire Fidonet of nodelisted sysops by his own refusal to have had
any of his articles published in the Fidonews.

Refusal? What refusal?

Have you been able to find any of his articles published in the
Fidonews? Has anybody else been able to? I certainly haven't.

It is an article he published, you are free to look at it any time you (or anyone) wants to do that.

The editor has invited all (including Mr. Swindell) to have their
own articles published in the Fidonews. To date, Mr. Swindell has
refused to do so.

Have you sent in your piece, and had it published in the Fidonews?
I have. And several others have done the same. I might even do it
again, giving everybody here something to talk about. At least for
the next two weeks ...

For Life,
Lee

--
Pork: the other white meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

The fact that he chose not to have had any of his own articles
published in the Fidonews is the issue. If he was not a nodelisted
Fidonet sysop this would not be an issue. But he is. As such, it
is most definitely an issue. A real issue.

There is no kind of directive that Mr. Swindell or anyone else should submit their atricles to the fidonews. Anyone can do that of course, and folks are free to do that but their is no requirement.

The real issue, as noted by Michiel, is why has Mr. Swindell chosen
not to have his article(s) published in the Fidonews.

Maybe publication in the Fidonews was never the idea?

He is a notelisted Fidonet sysop. And most definitely aware
of articles published in the Fidonews, and the editor's invitation
to all (sysops and non-sysops alike) to send in articles that can
be published in the Fidonews.

There is no issue.

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN
networks, for decades now.

The fact remains that Mr. Swindell has avoided having his article(s)
published in the Fidonews.

Maybe publication in the Fidonews was never the idea?

A very deliberate act, being a nodelisted Fidonet sysop, having
his own articles published elsewhere, critical of how his fellow
sysops in Fidonet run their systems.

It was deliberate. He posted his thoughts/article at the place of his choosing. There is nothing wrong with that.

That is what Mr. Swindel thinks of Fidonet and how it is run.

The Synchronet wiki is a good read for anything BBS related.

Please do keep up. The issue is not where else has Mr. Swindell
had his article(s) published. Both me and Michiel have noted this.
I am sure others have, too. Especially Mr. Swindell.

Please try to keep up Lee. There is no requirement for anyone to post their articles in any particular place/echo/newsletter.

Of course it isn't. The article is published where the author published

it.

Mr. Swindell chose to have his article(s) posted in other places,
never in the Fidonews. That is a fact, not an opinion.

It is a fact, but it is not an issue.

If I write an article, I am the creator of that article. As such,
I own all the rights and can do whatever I want (if anything) with
that article. I might just put it away in a drawer and forget all
about it, aside from letting it collect dust.

And that is what Mr. Swindell has done. There is no issue.

Mr. Swindell chose of his own volition to have his article(s)
published in venues other than the Fidonews. That is his business,
not mine or anybody else's.

Right.

His reasons as to why may be questionable, or even if he has a reason.

But he is the one who made that choice. Not me. Not you. Nobody
else is to blame other than himself.

Blame for what?

I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be a fidonews article. I'm just >>>> saying it is fine where it is.

It is not fine for a nodelisted Fidonet sysop to have ignored the
entire Fidonet of nodelisted sysops by his own refusal to have had
any of his articles published in the Fidonews.

Refusal? What refusal?

Have you been able to find any of his articles published in the
Fidonews? Has anybody else been able to? I certainly haven't.

I haven't either, and there is still no issue.

It is an article he published, you are free to look at it any time you (or >> anyone) wants to do that.

The editor has invited all (including Mr. Swindell) to have their
own articles published in the Fidonews. To date, Mr. Swindell has
refused to do so.

He hasn't done so. If you feel strongly you could netmail him and suggest to him that he submit it to the fidonews. He may or may not choose to do so. It's his choice.

Have you sent in your piece, and had it published in the Fidonews?
I have. And several others have done the same. I might even do it
again, giving everybody here something to talk about. At least for
the next two weeks ...

I have not. If I ever have anything worthy of a fidonews article I will submit it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 01 May 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

A very deliberate act, being a nodelisted Fidonet sysop, having
his own articles published elsewhere, critical of how his fellow
sysops in Fidonet run their systems.

http://kirin.dcclost.com/~alex/fidonews.png

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

Re: What's wrong with FidoNet [technology]
By: Alan Ianson to Lee Lofaso on Mon May 01 2023 03:08 pm

A very deliberate act, being a nodelisted Fidonet sysop, having
his own articles published elsewhere, critical of how his fellow
sysops in Fidonet run their systems.

It was deliberate. He posted his thoughts/article at the place of his choosing. There is nothing wrong with that.

This has been kinda funny to read, the chatter about "Mr Swindell" (which in my head I hearing it with the voice in the Matrix movie "Mr Anderson" (https://youtu.be/XooISvoZ_rs) - made me curious enough to go and read it...


...δεσ∩
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Deon,

This has been kinda funny to read, the chatter about "Mr Swindell" (which
in my head I hearing it with the voice in the Matrix movie "Mr Anderson" (https://youtu.be/XooISvoZ_rs) - made me curious enough to go and read
it...

Exactly the same for me.

I went to read it too and I have no problem with how Rob words it ...perfectly valid conclusions...mostly. Maybe my salt & pepper come from different shakers...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Re: What's wrong with FidoNet [technology]
By: Lee Lofaso to Alan Ianson on Mon May 01 2023 04:35 am

The real issue, as noted by Michiel, is why has Mr. Swindell chosen
not to have his article(s) published in the Fidonews.

That's an issue? It was just some brain-dump I spontaneously recorded on my wiki - not a big deal. I didn't publish it in the New Year Times either. Is that an issue?
--
digital man (rob)

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #49:
KD = King Drafus (Allen Christiansen)
Norco, CA WX: 58.3°F, 68.0% humidity, 4 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

Hello Alexander,

A very deliberate act, being a nodelisted Fidonet sysop, having
his own articles published elsewhere, critical of how his fellow
sysops in Fidonet run their systems.

http://kirin.dcclost.com/~alex/fidonews.png

The Walking Dead lives on!

For Life,
Lee

--
Pork. The One You Love.

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 30 Apr 2023 at 12:01p, Alan Ianson pondered and said...

Mr. Swindell has done much, so much to support Fidonet and all FTN networks, for decades now.

Just adding my support to this statement also. Yay Rob :)

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

On 02 May 2023 at 12:58p, deon pondered and said...

This has been kinda funny to read, the chatter about "Mr Swindell"
(which in my head I hearing it with the voice in the Matrix movie "Mr Anderson" (https://youtu.be/XooISvoZ_rs) - made me curious enough to go and read it...

You're not on your own there :)

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

Alan Ianson wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

There is no kind of directive that Mr. Swindell or anyone else should submit their atricles to the fidonews. Anyone can do that of course,
and folks are free to do that but their is no requirement.

I find it curious that the people complaining about Rob not publishing a
wiki page of his on Fidonews have not, themselves, written a Fidonews
article in recent history.


... State the problem as clearly as possible
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hello Kurt,

There is no kind of directive that Mr. Swindell or anyone else should
submit their atricles to the fidonews. Anyone can do that of course,
and folks are free to do that but their is no requirement.

I find it curious that the people complaining about Rob not publishing a wiki page of his on Fidonews have not, themselves, written a Fidonews article in recent history.

I posted an article (and puzzles) in the Fidonews.

And so, by popular demand, I will do so again.
And again. And again. And again.
That is not a threat. But a promise.

For Life,
Lee

--
If PBS won't do it, who will?

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

On 01 May 2023, Alan Ianson said the following...

The fact that he chose not to have had any of his own articles
published in the Fidonews is the issue. If he was not a nodelisted Fidonet sysop this would not be an issue. But he is. As such, it
is most definitely an issue. A real issue.

There is no kind of directive that Mr. Swindell or anyone else should submit their atricles to the fidonews. Anyone can do that of course, and folks are free to do that but their is no requirement.

Lee always has something to say, usually it is something bombastic, who cares the twerp is not within the nodelist, but anyways I also would like to offer my kudos to Rob as well. Spoke with him once via Netmail I found him to be a level headed guy and provided the very best advice w/ someone who just irrational. Rob is a great guy.

.≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
_[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
{ NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

... DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)

Re: Re: What's wrong with FidoNet [technology]
By: Gregory Deyss to Alan Ianson on Sun May 07 2023 09:10 pm

Rob is a great guy.

:-)
--
digital man (rob)

Breaking Bad quote #18:
Already, Operation: TBD, thanks for nothing Gomey. - Hank Schrader
Norco, CA WX: 66.5°F, 64.0% humidity, 10 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

Rob is a great guy.

:-)

Over 6ft?

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)