• European far right movement.

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to MATT MUNSON on Fri Sep 30 06:44:01 2022
    Hello Matt,

    But it doesn't matter to people here in some silly hobby net with less
    than maybe a dozen people reading.

    It would be nice if it was a readership of 5-6 thousand people, instead of a
    few dozen.

    Then quit talking about it and make it happen.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to MATT MUNSON on Sat Oct 1 10:21:08 2022
    Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.

    Ive been anti-internationalist before Trump got elected. I want the USA
    to pull out of the UN.

    I've worked for the UN at certain periods during my life and I agree I've never seen the amount of money-wasting at the level it goes on there.

    The US at several times has expressed the desire to leave the UN, certainly during the period when John Bolton was the US-embassador to the UN.

    Then it was proposed to move the UN headquarters to Paris-France and the words of Bolton and others were quickly quelched when it became clear what kind of a moneymaker the UN are for the city of New York plus the loss of prominence in international politics for the US.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From MATT MUNSON@1:218/109 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Sep 26 21:22:32 2022
    Trump wanted to withdraw the US from NATO.

    Ive been anti-internationalist before Trump got elected. I want the USA to pull out of the UN.

    ... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
    * Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Mon Oct 3 11:06:17 2022
    Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war.

    How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Bj?rn Felten on Mon Oct 3 14:13:38 2022
    Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
    I read your message from 03.10.2022 12:06

    ak>> Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war.
    BF> How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad
    BF> Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll
    BF> factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?

    There is no punishment for that, I assure you, although the state
    control media must use "special military operation".
    Besides, in Ukraine a person can really be persecuted if he tries to
    refer the events in Donbass as a civil war that started in 2014.

    Bye, Bj?rn!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Mon Oct 3 18:24:17 2022
    There is no punishment for that, I assure you, although the state
    control media must use "special military operation".

    And 'special' it is ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 4 00:18:47 2022
    Hello Björn,

    Ukraine had a lot ways and time to prevent the war.

    How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?

    I'll let Noam Chomsky answer your silly questions -

    https://chomsky.info/20220414/


    Think it out.
    This stupid war can end only in one of two ways -

    1. Either Russia is totally destroyed, or Ukraine is totally destroyed.
    Russia will not be totally destroyed. So Russia wins in the long run.

    2. Negotiations between the two sides and an agreement is reached.
    Neither side is willing to negotiate in good faith, so the destruction continues.

    Professor Chomsky is 93 years old. It did not take him long to figure
    out what was going on, as this piece was dated several months ago.

    Why does the US and its NATO allies continue to urge Ukraine to
    fight to the last man? Think about who is doing the actual fighting,
    and paying the price.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Get Her Wet Here

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 3 21:58:00 2022
    Lee Lofaso wrote to Björn Felten <=-

    How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are exempt from normal Russian law?

    I'll let Noam Chomsky answer your silly questions -

    <SNIP>

    You're talking to yourself again, Beeeorn.



    ... Internal Error: The system has been taken over by sheep at line 19960
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 4 10:59:12 2022
    Hi, Ward Dossche!
    I read your message from 03.10.2022 19:24

    ak>> There is no punishment for that, I assure you, although the
    ak>> state control media must use "special military operation".
    WD> And 'special' it is ...

    Until February, for the civil war in Donbass Ukrainian media must use
    the term "KTO" (contr-terror operation). And all who fight against the
    new power in Kiev are called terrorists.

    Bye, Ward!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Tue Oct 4 12:39:23 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 04.10.2022 01:18

    LL> Think it out.
    LL> This stupid war can end only in one of two ways -
    LL> 1. Either Russia is totally destroyed, or Ukraine is totally
    LL> destroyed. Russia will not be totally destroyed. So Russia wins
    LL> in the long run. 2. Negotiations between the two sides and an
    LL> agreement is reached. Neither side is willing to negotiate in
    LL> good faith, so the destruction continues.

    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

    Suppose modern Israel has finally been divided into Palestine and
    Israel, and some areas with Jewish population stayed in the Palestine
    part after the agreement that all the people will be equally and fairly treated. But after a time a coup happens in Palestine, and Hamas
    captures the power and declared that all people in the country are now
    Arabs, they must speak Arabs, cut tied with Israel etc. Naturally, the
    Jewish community refused to follow such orders. Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas. Well, it is all happening under the Israel
    nose. ;-) What will happen next to newly independent Palestine? Will we
    hear hysteria from Arab neighbours, sanctions and so on?

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 4 12:00:43 2022
    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

    You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...

    The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop fighting the agressor.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 5 11:48:52 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 04.10.22 12:00:

    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:
    You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful
    country ...

    So what? You eat this too. We had good "teachers" with "national interests" all over the world. What we fought for, that's what we ran into.

    The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and withdraw to
    positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop fighting the
    agressor.

    Naive... blessed is he who believes ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 5 11:50:31 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 04.10.22 10:59:

    Until February, for the civil war in Donbass Ukrainian media must use the term "KTO"
    (contr-terror operation). And all who fight against the new power in Kiev are called
    terrorists.

    ATO - anti-terror operation. KTO was at Chechnya.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 6 00:28:08 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    Naive... blessed is he who believes ;)

    He who believes is religious ... religious people believe stuff for which there is no explanation nor scientific proof ... a little bit like the Putin groupies ...

    Besides, here's some good stuff for you ...

    https://tinyurl.com/2p9xd5xu

    Have phun,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 6 07:40:28 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 06.10.22 0:28:

    Naive... blessed is he who believes ;)
    He who believes is religious ... religious people believe stuff for which there is no
    explanation nor scientific proof ... a little bit like the Putin groupies ...

    We believes is Russia.


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 6 09:23:05 2022
    Oleg,

    We believes is Russia.

    That in itself is good, but it's not a James Bond movie "License to kill".

    On the index of nationality quality, your country ranks 79th on a total of 210. Colombia, Panama, Dominica, China, Venezuela, Paraguay, Barbados, Malaysia, Cyprus and a bunch of others are ranked better. You have work to do .... start by removing the Poeteen-guy.

    And, never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 6 11:59:04 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 06.10.22 9:23:

    We believes is Russia.
    That in itself is good, but it's not a James Bond movie "License to kill". On the index of
    nationality quality, your country ranks 79th on a total of 210. Colombia, Panama, Dominica,
    China, Venezuela, Paraguay, Barbados, Malaysia, Cyprus and a bunch of others are ranked
    better. You have work to do .... start by removing the Poeteen-guy. And, never underestimate
    the power of human stupidity.

    yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before... Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable. But traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to stupid you.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 6 08:47:00 2022
    Hello Oleg Nazaroff!

    ** On Thursday 06.10.22 - 11:59, Oleg Nazaroff wrote to Ward Dossche:

    yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've
    heard that somewhere before... Hitler came to a bad end.
    All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable.
    But traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to
    stupid you.

    It's not about race. It's about freedom and liberty. You don't
    have that in a police-state.
    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 6 14:56:39 2022
    yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before... Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will
    be there, it's so predictable. But traditionally, it will come
    unexpectedly late to stupid you.

    You have just provided proof for Godwin's law, as well as Dossche's Laws #4 and #17 on on-line discussions and communication:

    Godwin:
    "If any online discussion continues long enough, someone will almost
    certainly make a reference to Hitler"

    #4
    "At the end of a stretched online debate, there always is an insult".

    #17
    "Lying is an ultimate form of free speech"

    Enjoy the day,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 6 18:13:28 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 06.10.22 14:56:

    yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before...
    Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable. But
    traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to stupid you.
    You have just provided proof for Godwin's law, as well as Dossche's Laws #4 and #17 on on-line
    discussions and communication:

    Read yourself again. It is recommended to repeat until complete understanding. If it doesn't come now, it will come later, don't worry. The Law of Belated Understanding, traditionally for the West.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to August Abolins on Thu Oct 6 18:29:59 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, August Abolins.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 06.10.22 8:47:

    yes, where are we, up to your superior race... Wait, we've heard that somewhere before...
    Hitler came to a bad end. All the higher races will be there, it's so predictable. But
    traditionally, it will come unexpectedly late to stupid you.
    It's not about race. It's about freedom and liberty. You don't have that in a police-state.

    I saw how the russian children of Donbass die for the freedom and liberty of the ukranian Nazis. Many years.
    We have a fundamental difference of views on freedom, liberty and police-state. You talk about it, we do it and live it.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 6 21:01:12 2022
    Oleg,

    I saw how the russian children of Donbass die for the freedom and liberty of the ukranian Nazis. Many years.
    We have a fundamental difference of views on freedom, liberty and police-state. You talk about it, we do it and live it.

    So, when are you leaving for the war? I mean, the special military operation?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 6 21:12:44 2022
    Dan wrote (2022-10-03):

    Lee Lofaso wrote to Björn Felten <=-


    <SNIP>

    You're talking to yourself again, Beeeorn.

    "Please stop trying to fan the flames, by making baseless accusations
    with no purpose other than trying to make yourself relevant."

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dan Clough on Thu Oct 6 22:25:01 2022
    Hello Dan,

    How many years in prison will you get for calling Mad Vlad's "special
    military operation" a war? Or maybe the troll factory workers are
    exempt from normal Russian law?

    I'll let Noam Chomsky answer your silly questions -

    <SNIP>

    You're talking to yourself again, Beeeorn.

    Professor Chomsky speaks far more eloquently than you.
    Even at 93 years of age.
    Hell, Jimmy Carter does too. At 98 years of age.
    Happy (belated) Birthday, Jimmy!

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Lock him up!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Thu Oct 6 22:25:18 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Think it out.
    This stupid war can end only in one of two ways -
    1. Either Russia is totally destroyed, or Ukraine is totally
    destroyed. Russia will not be totally destroyed. So Russia wins
    in the long run. 2. Negotiations between the two sides and an
    agreement is reached. Neither side is willing to negotiate in
    good faith, so the destruction continues.

    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

    This should be interesting ...

    Suppose modern Israel has finally been divided into Palestine and
    Israel, and some areas with Jewish population stayed in the Palestine
    part after the agreement that all the people will be equally and fairly treated.

    The Turks ruled the land of Palestine until the end of WWI, when
    the British decided to take over due to the spoils of war. And then,
    Jewish people from Germany (and elsewhere) came sneaking in through
    illegal immigration until the end of WWII. And then, the United
    Nations got into the act, creating two Palestinian states - one for
    Palestinian Arabs, and one for Palestinian Jews. Both the Arabs and
    the Jews rejected the deal, and told the United Nations to take a
    hike.

    But after a time a coup happens in Palestine, and Hamas captures the power and declared that all people in the country are now Arabs, they must speak Arabs, cut tied with Israel etc.

    No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. Both sides rejected the deal
    offered to them by the United Nations. The Jews were not happy with
    getting only a small portion of land that did not belong to them,
    and the Arabs were not happy with their own land being given to
    Jews by infidels.

    Naturally, the Jewish community refused to follow such orders.

    They certainly understood the penalty for disobeying Rule #1 -
    You shall not have other gods before me.

    Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.

    Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
    offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews attacked
    the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not do it once, but
    four times since the United Nations tried to give them the land.

    Well, it is all happening under the Israel nose. ;-)

    Yasser Arafat is still worshipped by Palestinian Arabs. Palestinian
    women love him, even years after his untimely death. So much so, they
    continue to make babies for him. "One more fighter for Arafat!" as
    their battle cry whenever a child is born ...

    What will happen next to newly independent Palestine? Will we
    hear hysteria from Arab neighbours, sanctions and so on?

    Nah. Instead of chanting "Next year in Jerusalem" Palestinian Arabs
    will be chanting "This year in Jerusalem" ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Get Her Wet Here

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 6 22:25:26 2022
    Hello Ward,

    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:

    You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...

    The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and
    withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will
    immediately stop fighting the agressor.

    Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international
    community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the contrary.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 7 03:02:53 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 06.10.22 21:01:

    I saw how the russian children of Donbass die for the freedom and liberty of the ukranian
    Nazis. Many years. We have a fundamental difference of views on freedom, liberty and
    police-state. You talk about it, we do it and live it.
    So, when are you leaving for the war? I mean, the special military operation?

    I think you'll find out soon from the news.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 7 04:05:47 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 06.10.22 22:25:

    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in this way:
    You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful
    country ... The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to stop fighting and
    withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop
    fighting the agressor.
    Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international community as such. Despite
    Russia's claim to the contrary.

    Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is recognized by the international community. Despite Israel's claim to the contrary.
    South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.
    Who is stronger has more rights?

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 7 08:37:37 2022
    South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

    Please read-up on parts of the Louisiana purchase

    Who is stronger has more rights?

    The final liberation of Ukraine from the invader will show that.

    So, when are you reporting to go to the front and get slaughtered?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 7 10:16:17 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 06.10.2022 23:25

    ak>> Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.
    LL> Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
    LL> offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews
    LL> attacked ??the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not
    LL> do it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to
    LL> give them the land.

    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine
    and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar situation. Both
    living next to their protectors.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 7 10:26:15 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 06.10.2022 23:25

    ak>>> We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in
    ak>>> this way:
    WD>> You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by
    WD>> Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...
    WD>> The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to
    WD>> stop fighting and withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I
    WD>> assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop
    WD>> fighting the agressor.
    LL> Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the
    LL> international community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the
    LL> contrary.

    The US recognized Jerusalem as a capital of Israel and opened its
    embassy there. It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable
    then it is allowed. ;) In addition Russians in Crimea don't hurl rocks
    to their occupants. ;-)

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 7 09:41:54 2022
    You have just provided proof for Godwin's law, as well as Dossche's Laws #4 and #17 on on-line discussions and communication:

    I think that a posting, that I made in one of my echoes circa 30 years ago, is still applicable.

    From the Troll's Handbook:

    Five ways to win every Fidonet argument.

    1. Continually move the goalposts.
    2. Make stuff up.
    3. Never admit fault.
    4. Ad hominem.
    5. Straw man.


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    ..

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 7 10:54:51 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 07.10.22 8:37:

    South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and
    Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.
    Please read-up on parts of the Louisiana purchase

    This is not a question for me, for Mexico. She is even satisfied with the contribution for 170 years ;)

    Who is stronger has more rights?
    The final liberation of Ukraine from the invader will show that.

    Let's wait and see who will free whom from whom.

    So, when are you reporting to go to the front and get slaughtered?

    You won't wait ;) And to the Donbass - occasionally, if necessary. You won't wait. Come, don't be afraid!

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 7 11:03:02 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 07.10.22 10:16:

    Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal offered to them by the
    United Nations, the Palestinian Jews attacked ??the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they
    did not do it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to give them the land.
    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in Palestine
    if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their protectors.

    Somewhat different circumstances. Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves, which cannot be said about Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the Negroes of the period of American slavery, with rules similar to the occupation regime of the Nazis. I've lived there for a long time, know from the inside.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 7 11:11:52 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 07.10.22 9:41:

    I think that a posting, that I made in one of my echoes circa 30 years ago, is still
    applicable.
    From the Troll's Handbook: Five ways to win every Fidonet argument.

    The dispute between representatives of the occupation and liberation movements is doomed. In this context, the West is the occupier.
    By the way, Western mercenaries no longer hesitate to die in the uniform of their countries, at least they used to dress up in Ukrainian. Looks so-so.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 7 10:45:35 2022
    Somewhat different circumstances. Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves,

    Worse than that, they even deny that they exist.

    which cannot be said about Jews to
    Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the
    Negroes of the period of American slavery,

    I agree, as does most human rights organisations, Israel is an apartheid country. There's no doubt about it. But Israel buys much more, very expensive, weapons systems from NATO countries than Palestine does, so those countries will never say it out loud.

    BTW, Sweden has always supported the Palestinians' right...


    --
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    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 7 10:57:57 2022
    Hello Björn,

    On Friday October 07 2022 10:45, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

    I agree, as does most human rights organisations, Israel is an apartheid country. There's no doubt about it.

    I stopped buying products labelled "from Israel" some 30 years ago.


    Cheers, Michiel

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Fri Oct 7 12:06:14 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 07.10.22 10:45:

    Somewhat different circumstances. Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of
    slaves,
    Worse than that, they even deny that they exist.

    Denial of the state, not the nation. Ukrainians were one of the most privileged "castes" in the USSR, more money was allocated for the development of the territory than others, including Moscow, it was easier for Ukrainians to get into the power structures, these are historical facts.

    which cannot be said about Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated
    to the Negroes of the period of American slavery,
    I agree, as does most human rights organisations, Israel is an apartheid country. There's
    no doubt about it. But Israel buys much more, very expensive, weapons systems from NATO
    countries than Palestine does, so those countries will never say it out loud.

    Ah, that's where Putin stumbled! All you had to do was buy a lot of expensive weapons from Nato, is it that simple? ;)

    BTW, Sweden has always supported the Palestinians' right...

    Yes, the USSR is inconsistent. At first, they did everything possible for the emergence of the state of Israel, and when the Jews got into the taste, USSR began to help the Palestinians fight the Jews ...;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sat Oct 8 23:28:18 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international
    community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the contrary.

    Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is recognized by the international community.

    In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that
    of a city which is illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the
    inalienable right of soverignty of the people of Palestine.

    Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide historical Palestine
    between Jewish and Arab States, Jerusalem was granted special status
    and was meant to be placced under international sovereignty and
    control. This special status was based on Jerusalem's religious
    importance to Muslims, Jews, and Christians who live there.

    Despite Israel's claim to the contrary.

    UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding Jerusalem
    "null and void" as an occupying power does not have sovereignty on the territory it occupies.

    South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is part of Mexico.

    Used to be. Once upon a time.

    Despite USA's claim to the contrary.

    The USA annexed those areas by treaty with Mexico.
    And therefore is recognized by Mexico and the international
    community as valid.

    Who is stronger has more rights?

    UN Resolution 242 [passed] stressed the "inadmissability of the
    acquistion of territory by war." In other words, annexation of occupied territory is also a crime. A crime for which officials of the annexing
    state are responsible. Put another way -
    "Annexation by the use of force of the territory of another state
    or part thereof" qualifies as the crime of agression, under the Article
    8his of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

    Article 51 of the UN Charter confirms Israel's annexation of the Golan
    is a violation of international law.

    Israel is not alone in this.

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sat Oct 8 23:28:30 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.
    Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
    offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews
    attacked ??the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not
    do it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to
    give them the land.

    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar situation. Both
    living next to their protectors.

    The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since
    time immemorial. Ukrainians and Russians not so much.

    In the USA, even the Hatfields and McCoys have learned to live
    together in peace. Although granted it did take them a long time.

    So there is hope.

    Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas Sadat together.
    They even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace
    Prize.

    Bill Clinton brought Yatzik Rabin and Yasser Arafat together. They
    even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

    Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and Putin together.
    They will be sure to make peace with each other, both winning the
    Nobel Peace Prize.

    "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children
    of God." ~Matthew 5:9

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sat Oct 8 23:28:35 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    We can model the situation with Russia and Ukraine in
    this way:
    You continue to bypass the issue ... the war started by
    Russia invading a bona-fide peaceful country ...
    The only thing to do for the war to stop is for Russia to
    stop fighting and withdraw to positions of Feb.23rd ... I
    assure you, the Ukrainian army will immediately stop
    fighting the agressor.
    Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the
    international community as such. Despite Russia's claim to the
    contrary.

    The US recognized Jerusalem as a capital of Israel and opened its
    embassy there.

    So what? No other country in the world (except Russia) recognizes
    Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Do you know why?

    Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide historical Palestine
    between Jewish and Arab states, Jerusalem was granted special status
    and was meant to be be placed under international sovereignty and
    control.

    This special status was based on Jerusalem's religious importance
    to the Muslims, Jews, and Christians who live there.

    It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable then it is allowed. ;) In addition Russians in Crimea don't hurl rocks to their occupants. ;-)

    UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding Jerusalem
    (Knesset claim of Jerusalem being capital of Israel) as being "null and
    void."

    The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious
    claim. So what does it matter? Trump and Putin can claim whatever they
    want. But that does not make it so.

    Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks.
    Guess which side always wins such contests?

    Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming those
    Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sat Oct 8 23:28:46 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado,
    Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and
    Texas is part of Mexico. Despite USA's claim to the contrary.
    Please read-up on parts of the Louisiana purchase

    This is not a question for me, for Mexico. She is even satisfied with the contribution for 170 years ;)

    Mexico is only a small size of what it once was.
    But it is still Mexico.

    Who is stronger has more rights?
    The final liberation of Ukraine from the invader will show that.

    Let's wait and see who will free whom from whom.

    To the victor go the spoils? UN Resolution 242 [passed] says
    otherwise, that annexation of occupied territory is a crime, for
    which officials of the annexing state are responsible.

    So, when are you reporting to go to the front and get slaughtered?

    You won't wait ;) And to the Donbass - occasionally, if necessary. You won't
    wait. Come, don't be afraid!

    Article 51 of the UN Charter confirms Israel's annexation of Golan
    is violation of international law.

    US policy also remains the same, that the Golan remains part of Syria. Regardless of what former president Donald Trump claims.

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sat Oct 8 23:28:52 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    [..]

    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in
    Ukraine and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar
    situation. Both living next to their protectors.

    Somewhat different circumstances.

    Very different circumstances. Palestine was partitioned by the
    United Nations into two states - one for Palestinian Jews and one
    for Palestinian Arabs. Both sides rejected the deal, for different
    reasons. Palestinian Arabs did not accept their land being taken
    from them by the United Nations (or by anybody else), and
    Palestinian Jews wanted all the land of Palestine for themselves.

    Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves, which cannot
    be said about Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the Negroes of the period of American slavery, with rules similar to the occupation regime of the Nazis. I've lived there for a long time, know from the inside.

    Israel is more of a theocracy than a democracy. Think fundamentalist
    Jewish state rather than fundamentalist Islamic state.

    For Life,
    Lee

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sat Oct 8 23:28:57 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    I think that a posting, that I made in one of my echoes circa 30 BF>years
    ago, is still applicable. From the Troll's Handbook: Five BF>ways to win every Fidonet argument.

    The dispute between representatives of the occupation and liberation movements is doomed. In this context, the West is the occupier.

    Is it?

    UN Resolution 242, after the June 1967 [Yom Kippur] war, stressed
    the "inadmissability of the acquisition of territory by war." The
    resolution was adopted with reference to the territories Israel
    occupied in 1967, including the Golan.

    So what gives any other country the right to do the same as Israel?

    By the way, Western mercenaries no longer hesitate to die in the uniform of
    their countries, at least they used to dress up in Ukrainian. Looks so-so.

    Despite Israel's de facto annexation of East Jerusalem, Palestinians
    who live there were not granted Israeli citizenship. Since 1967, Israel
    has revoked the status of 14,000+ Palestinians, according to Israeli
    rights group T'salem.

    What does that say about an occupying power that treats the people
    who live in the area it invaded? Where do those people go, having no
    home to go to or place to stay?

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 9 07:52:36 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 08.10.22 23:28:

    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in
    Palestine if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their protectors.
    Somewhat different circumstances.
    Very different circumstances. Palestine was partitioned by the United Nations into two states
    - one for Palestinian Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. Both sides rejected the deal, for
    different reasons. Palestinian Arabs did not accept their land being taken from them by the
    United Nations (or by anybody else), and Palestinian Jews wanted all the land of Palestine for
    themselves.

    UN here once again discredits itself as such. Did they take an interest in the opinion of the Palestinians ahead of time, did they hold a referendum - how, Palestinian citizens, we counted here, you have a lot of extra land, we decided to make a settlement in your communal apartment, the very ones who crucified your god, you don't mind, let's vote, we are for!

    Russians do not treat Ukrainians as an inferior race of slaves, which cannot be said about
    Jews to Palestinians. There, the Palestinians are actually equated to the Negroes of the
    period of American slavery, with rules similar to the occupation regime of the Nazis. I've
    lived there for a long time, know from the inside.
    Israel is more of a theocracy than a democracy. Think fundamentalist Jewish state rather than
    fundamentalist Islamic state.

    Did someone tell you or did they invent it themselves that the majority of Russians and Ukrainians are Democrats?? This is an implanted "belief" of the West, by the way.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 9 08:16:43 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 08.10.22 23:28:

    Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international community as such. Despite
    Russia's claim to the contrary.
    Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is
    recognized by the international community.
    In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that of a city which is
    illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the inalienable right of soverignty of the people
    of Palestine. Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide historical Palestine between Jewish
    and Arab States, Jerusalem was granted special status and was meant to be placced under
    international sovereignty and control. This special status was based on Jerusalem's religious
    importance to Muslims, Jews, and Christians who live there.

    So what? What changes from this how many decades have there been? They spit on the GT and the Palestinians. Who is stronger than that and sneakers. Who is richer - just bought a piece of land in Jerusalem. Those who lived there before 1947 were forcibly deprived of housing and rights.

    South California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wayoming, Kansas, Oklahoma and
    Texas is part of Mexico.
    Used to be. Once upon a time.

    Yeah. I'll just pull up my pants and trust God without looking back.

    Despite USA's claim to the contrary.
    The USA annexed those areas by treaty with Mexico. And therefore is recognized by Mexico and
    the international community as valid.

    A contract signed under pressure is null and void.

    Who is stronger has more rights?
    UN Resolution 242 [passed] stressed the "inadmissability of the acquistion of territory by
    war." In other words, annexation of occupied territory is also a crime. A crime for which
    officials of the annexing state are responsible. Put another way - "Annexation by the use of
    force of the territory of another state or part thereof" qualifies as the crime of agression,
    under the Article 8his of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

    Everyone spat on UN.

    Article 51 of the UN Charter confirms Israel's annexation of the Golan is a violation of
    international law. Israel is not alone in this.

    Because the hegemon is a good example. If it is possible for the hegemon, it is possible for others. And what's wrong with Russia? At the same time, Russia takes into account the opinion of the people inhabiting the "annexed" territories. And twice in history - the first referendum was in 1990, but it was ignored - a bunch of traitors illegally, for the sake of their own interests and for the money of the hegemon, the USA - destroyed the USSR.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 9 08:25:40 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 08.10.22 23:28:

    It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable then it is allowed. ;) In addition
    Russians in Crimea don't hurl rocks to their occupants. ;-)
    The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious claim. So what does it
    matter? Trump and Putin can claim whatever they want. But that does not make it so. Israeli
    army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks. Guess which side always wins such contests? Of
    course, things could change if NATO starts arming those Palestinian kids will heavier stuff
    ...

    You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would NATO want to do this with Ukraine? Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's blood. And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 9 08:30:15 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 08.10.22 23:28:

    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in Ukraine and Jews in Palestine
    if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their protectors.
    The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since time immemorial. Ukrainians and
    Russians not so much. Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas Sadat together. They even
    made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

    A world divided by a 10-meter wall is so-so peaceful. All these Nobel prizes are disconnected from reality.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 9 00:40:02 2022
    You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would NATO want to do this with Ukraine?

    NATO doesn't want any of this.

    Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's blood.

    NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

    And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

    Time for what?

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 9 11:05:25 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 08.10.22 23:28:

    Crimea is part of Ukraine, and is recognized by the international community as such. Despite
    Russia's claim to the contrary.
    Golan is part of Syria, West Jerusalem and West bank of Jordan is part of Palestine and is
    recognized by the international community.
    In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that of a city which is
    illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the inalienable right of soverignty of the people
    of Palestine.

    Okay, where are the 8 packages of sanctions from the United States and the European Union against Israel???

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Sun Oct 9 13:10:25 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 09.10.22 0:40:

    You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would
    NATO want to do this with Ukraine?
    NATO doesn't want any of this.

    Reluctantly supplies weapons, from under the stick, huh? He doesn't want to, but he has to. Someone.

    Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's
    blood.
    NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

    And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries on Mosfilm, yeah. And then they performed plastic surgery on the unfortunate, killed them and buried them on the battlefield, and brainwashed others and captured them. Only so far only Hollywood is working clumsily.

    And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.
    Time for what?

    Here you will find out at the same time ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 9 04:35:04 2022
    NATO doesn't want any of this.

    Reluctantly supplies weapons, from under the stick, huh? He doesn't want to, but he has to. Someone.

    Some countries willingly supply Ukraine with weapons. Are you surprised?

    NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

    And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries on Mosfilm, yeah. And then they performed plastic surgery on the unfortunate, killed them and buried them on the battlefield, and brainwashed others and captured them. Only so far only Hollywood is working clumsily.

    That's a great script.

    Time for what?

    Here you will find out at the same time ;)

    Uh huh.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 9 14:17:16 2022
    NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.

    And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries

    Yeah, Russia is fighting NATO, that's Putin's narrative. He obviously have no idea about how powerful NATO is. This is what will happen, in chronological order, if Mad Vlad manages to declare war on any NATO country.

    1. Instant destruction of all Russian warships in the Black Sea and then world-wide.

    2. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in Kaliningrad.

    3. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in occupied Moldova.

    4. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in occupied Georgia.

    5. Instant destruction of all Russian ground stations for satellite and other telecommunications.

    6. Total air and sea blockade of all Russian ports.

    7. Permanent forfeiture of all assets in Europe and North America (those that for now has only been frozen).

    8. Plus of course, NATO troops and equipment (air, land and sea) in Ukraine -- how long do you think Mad Vlad's army of unwilling, untrained, unequipped conscripts with corrupt leaders will hold out? I guess they'll start running home within hours. Those that survive, that is.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Sun Oct 9 19:35:22 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 09.10.22 14:17:

    NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading nation.
    And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries
    Yeah, Russia is fighting NATO, that's Putin's narrative. He obviously have no idea about
    how powerful NATO is. This is what will happen, in chronological order, if Mad Vlad manages to
    declare war on any NATO country.
    1. Instant destruction of all Russian warships in the Black Sea and then world-wide. 8. Plus
    of course, NATO troops and equipment (air, land and sea) in Ukraine -- how long do you think
    Mad Vlad's army of unwilling, untrained, unequipped conscripts with corrupt leaders will hold
    out? I guess they'll start running home within hours. Those that survive, that is.

    Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

    About Syria, I'm too mournfully silent ;)

    Look for Poseidons more carefully ;)

    The fact that the Russians are a jerk, we ourselves are aware of it ;) We like to show "cartoons" that unexpectedly turn out to be real weapons, to which NATO is like walking to the moon...

    And don't dream!

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Sun Oct 9 19:39:13 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 09.10.22 4:35:

    NATO doesn't want any of this.
    Reluctantly supplies weapons, from under the stick, huh? He doesn't want to, but he has to.
    Someone.
    Some countries willingly supply Ukraine with weapons. Are you surprised?

    Send more - we will dispose of this as well.


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 10 09:01:39 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 09.10.2022 00:28

    ak>>>> Hamas starts a military offensive to Jewish areas.
    LL>>> Again, you have it all wrong. After both sides rejected the deal
    LL>>> offered to them by the United Nations, the Palestinian Jews
    LL>>> attacked the Palestian Arabs - on Arab land. And they did not do
    LL>>> it once, but four times since the United Nations tried to give
    LL>>> them the land.

    ak>> I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in
    ak>> Ukraine and Jews in Palestine if they appeared in a similar
    ak>> situation. Both living next to their protectors.

    LL> The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since time
    LL> immemorial. Ukrainians and Russians not so much.

    LL> In the USA, even the Hatfields and McCoys have learned to live
    LL> together in peace. Although granted it did take them a long time.

    LL> So there is hope.

    LL> Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas Sadat together. They
    LL> even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace
    LL> Prize.

    LL> Bill Clinton brought Yatzik Rabin and Yasser Arafat together. They
    LL> even made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace
    LL> Prize.

    LL> Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and Putin together.
    LL> They will be sure to make peace with each other, both winning the
    LL> Nobel Peace Prize.

    LL> "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children of
    LL> God." ~Matthew 5:9

    For this the West should take a plunger piston to clean its eyes which
    don't see in the Ukraine two fighting nations and a nationalistic
    conflict. The idea that the war is caused only by the Putin's desire to capture Ukraine is wrong.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 10 09:09:46 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 09.10.2022 00:28

    ak>> It means that if a thing is prohibited but very desirable
    ak>> then it is allowed. ;) In addition Russians in Crimea don't
    ak>> hurl rocks to their occupants. ;-)
    LL> UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding
    LL> Jerusalem (Knesset claim of Jerusalem being capital of Israel)
    LL> as being "null and void."

    LL> The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious
    LL> claim. So what does it matter? Trump and Putin can claim
    LL> whatever they want. But that does not make it so.
    LL> Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks.
    LL> Guess which side always wins such contests?
    LL> Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming those
    LL> Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...

    A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son bitch" is still
    very actual. ;-)

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Bj?rn Felten on Mon Oct 10 09:56:41 2022
    Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
    I read your message from 09.10.2022 15:17

    AI>>> NATO isn't fighting. Ukraine is defending itself from an invading
    AI>>> nation.
    ON>> And we took photos and videos of NATO instructors and mercenaries
    BF> Yeah, Russia is fighting NATO, that's Putin's narrative. He
    BF> obviously have no idea about how powerful NATO is. This is what
    BF> will happen, in chronological order, if Mad Vlad manages to declare
    BF> war on any NATO country.

    BF> 1. Instant destruction of all Russian warships in the Black Sea and
    BF> then world-wide.
    BF> 2. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in
    BF> Kaliningrad.
    BF> 3. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in
    BF> occupied Moldova.
    BF> 4. Instant destruction of all Russian military installations in
    BF> occupied Georgia.

    Stop reading about Harry Potter too much! ;=))

    BF> 5. Instant destruction of all Russian ground stations for satellite
    BF> and other telecommunications.

    I wish we will not compete in that area. After that we won't be able to
    fly safely into space for hundreds of years. ;-) And for optical
    cables... How do you think -- what does a person need to destroy an
    vital Internet cable from Europe to America, for instance? A small
    motoboat, GPS navigator and a modest depth bomb, all used in the foggy
    night. Should we compete in it too? ;-) The same is true about western
    gas pipelines.

    BF> 6. Total air and sea blockade of all Russian ports.

    BF> 7. Permanent forfeiture of all assets in Europe and North America
    BF> (those that for now has only been frozen).

    Making a North Korea from Russia is a very poor idea for the West.
    Russia's demands are much modest than the price of that poor idea.

    BF> 8. Plus of course, NATO troops and equipment (air, land and sea) in
    BF> Ukraine -- how long do you think Mad Vlad's army of unwilling,
    BF> untrained, unequipped conscripts with corrupt leaders will hold
    BF> out? I guess they'll start running home within hours. Those that
    BF> survive, that is.

    Nuclear strikes can started incidentally when both sides keep fingers on launch buttons. So, it is much better to recall the Caribbean crisis and
    start to respect each other interests, make concessions to each other.

    Bye, Bj?rn!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Mon Oct 10 10:41:59 2022
    Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the
    Taliban in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

    1) NATO != America

    2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Mon Oct 10 12:25:40 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 10.10.22 10:41:

    Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with
    rusty machine guns ;)
    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
    1) NATO != America

    Nato without America is nothing. You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore, Kazan orphans. Even with memory and then problems. Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even faster than Ukraine ;)

    2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?

    We were withdrawing troops from Afghanistan without shameful flight, and we continue to cooperate, unlike the USA.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Mon Oct 10 11:44:43 2022
    Oleg,

    Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

    They ran from then Saigon in the 1980-ies. They didn't run in Afghanistan. Most of the American operations had already been contracted out to private companies with limited military presence. Friend of mine was there, the salaries were so high he bought a $320.000 house cash ... with the money in his pocket ... earned in 3 years. This was like 6yrs ago already.

    Afghanistan troops were incompetent of provading security, that's why the US left, shouldn't have been there in the first place.

    But do not confuse NATO with America. There are several more nuclear capable countries member of NATO. Britain in 1982 went to war 13.000km away and beat the shit out of Argentina...without nukes. Just conventional. That is what Bjorn was saying, conventionally the Russian army is not a threat anymore. Just the nukes, and in a nuclear war there are no winners. I think we agree on that ...

    About Syria, I'm too mournfully silent ;)

    There's just that much to write about in 24hrs ... what about the 25.000 children who died in Africa yesterday for lack of food because of the war in Ukraine? And how about the 25.000 today? And the 25.000 tomorrow? ... They are just in another statistic to hide the real truth. Figures from the UN.

    The fact that the Russians are a jerk, we ourselves are aware of it ;)

    Ah .... OK then .... Being a jerk is one thing, being an idiot another. I hope Russians are not idiots.

    I live pretty close to NATO HQ here, if one day my node goes into a high-pitched shriek, people will know what happened.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Mon Oct 10 14:40:22 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 10.10.22 11:44:

    Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban in rags and with
    rusty machine guns ;)
    They ran from then Saigon in the 1980-ies. They didn't run in Afghanistan. Most of the
    American operations had already been contracted out to private companies with limited military
    presence. Friend of mine was there, the salaries were so high he bought a $320.000 house cash
    ... with the money in his pocket ... earned in 3 years. This was like 6yrs ago already.

    They run away wherever they get slapped. Only the heels sparkled. It was funny to watch how the ragged Taliban drove this smug herd.

    Afghanistan troops were incompetent of provading security, that's why the US left, shouldn't
    have been there in the first place.

    Excuses are irrelevant. They don't wave their fists after a fight.

    But do not confuse NATO with America. There are several more nuclear capable countries member
    of NATO. Britain in 1982 went to war 13.000km away and beat the shit out of
    Argentina...without nukes. Just conventional. That is what Bjorn was saying, conventionally
    the Russian army is not a threat anymore. Just the nukes, and in a nuclear war there are no
    winners. I think we agree on that ...

    I wouldn't say that, judging by this morning. Not that I woke up from rocket launches, but while I was doing exercises on the street, I got tired of counting the launches first, and then just hours until the shelling stopped. And yes, we haven't even started yet. So, while reluctantly warming up.
    Do you really want nuke? So undermine yourself, don't suffer. Away only somewhere.
    Ukrainians can also arrange a gift for you. Spent and American nuclear fuel is stored directly under the open sky at the Zaporozhye NPP. If something arrives there from the Nazis, it will cover northern Europe first of all.

    About Syria, I'm too mournfully silent ;)
    There's just that much to write about in 24hrs ... what about the 25.000 children who died in
    Africa yesterday for lack of food because of the war in Ukraine? And how about the 25.000
    today? And the 25.000 tomorrow? ... They are just in another statistic to hide the real truth.
    Figures from the UN.

    Well, look for yourself where the grain has gone from Ukraine. How many were sent to Africa and how many reached. The rest somehow disappeared on the way past Europe... And when you eat bread in winter, think about why and how many children died. Russia, by the way, gives its bread to Africa. Your country only takes it.

    The fact that the Russians are a jerk, we ourselves are aware of it ;)
    Ah .... OK then .... Being a jerk is one thing, being an idiot another. I hope Russians are
    not idiots.

    Well, we are cotton wool. Or how is your propaganda broadcasting about us? We wear quilted jackets, guard bears instead of dogs, and solid Ivan-fools everywhere. Some people don't understand how they even got into Forbes, they built yachts one more than the other - well, complete idiots. Because the alternatively gifted West took all this hard-earned wealth and grabbed it. Without declaring war.
    The fact that Ivan is a fool and can be offended is not known to the West. Poked the bears with a stick with a nail - no, does not answer, probably died. And when the bear swings, has breakfast with vodka, pulls out a couple of conventional hurricanes and goes waving, screaming "what are we for?" it will be too late.

    I live pretty close to NATO HQ here, if one day my node goes into a high-pitched shriek,
    people will know what happened.

    You won't have time for it ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to alexander koryagin on Mon Oct 10 19:48:00 2022
    Hello alexander koryagin!

    ** On Monday 10.10.22 - 09:56, alexander koryagin wrote to Bj?rn Felten:

    [..] So, it is much better to recall the Caribbean crisis
    and start to respect each other interests, make
    concessions to each other.

    Putin has not shown that he is interested to respect anyone's
    interests except his own. And now, it is too late for him;
    he's already started warring.

    He can't show his face publicly outside own country. He is
    deemed persona non grata by the international community. He
    has put a target on his own back.

    The Caribbean crisis episode and talks were different. Warring
    had not yet begun.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Oleg Nazaroff on Mon Oct 10 19:55:00 2022
    Hello Oleg!

    ** On Monday 10.10.22 - 14:40, you wrote to Ward:

    [...] And yes, we haven't even started yet. So, while
    reluctantly warming up.

    You really have no idea what freedom is, do you?


    [...] Russia, by the way, gives its bread to Africa. Your
    country only takes it.

    Maybe that is a lie reported to you.


    [...] Poked the bears with a stick with a nail - no, does
    not answer, probably died. And when the bear swings, has
    breakfast with vodka, pulls out a couple of conventional
    hurricanes and goes waving, screaming "what are we for?"
    it will be too late.

    Speaking in cliches and is not a wise communication strategy.
    It may only indicate how conditioned you are to think one way
    only.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 11 02:44:10 2022
    1) NATO != America

    Nato without America is nothing.

    As I said, I know that this is the "truth" in Russia. But you really should read up before you uncritically swallow the lies from Putin and his followers.

    You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore,

    You? Me? American? ROTFL

    Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even
    faster than Ukraine ;)

    More propaganda from Mad Vlad and company? Now that Putin's bosom buddy, #45, no longer has any power, and the attempts to break up NATO is off the table, it's unity is stronger than ever. Some countries have even giving up a 200 year long alliance free stand point to join and strengthen the organisation.

    2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?

    We were withdrawing troops from Afghanistan without shameful flight,

    Even more history revision? The USSR's decade long "special military operation" in Afghanistan was the straw that finally broke the USSR camel's back and brought an end to a 70 year old failed experiment with bastardized communism, forever giving communism (and socialism) a bad name in certain societies.



    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to August Abolins on Tue Oct 11 10:05:49 2022
    Hi, August Abolins!
    I read your message from 11.10.2022 02:48

    ak>> [..] So, it is much better to recall the Caribbean crisis
    ak>> and start to respect each other interests, make
    ak>> concessions to each other.
    AA> Putin has not shown that he is interested to respect anyone's
    AA> interests except his own. And now, it is too late for him;
    AA> he's already started warring.

    First of all, it is the authority in Kiev had showed clearly, after
    2014, that it is not interested to respect people who voted against
    them. This authority spat at their will, actually tried to brake over a
    knee the population in Ukraine east and south.

    AA> He can't show his face publicly outside own country. He is
    AA> deemed persona non grata by the international community. He
    AA> has put a target on his own back.

    It so happened that the Ukraine coup and the following havoc happened
    when Putin is in power. And because of that any Russian reaction looked discredited. But if you ask me who is more fucking and crazy in the
    Ukraine I will say -- now doubts -- it is Ukraine ultra-nationalists who planted tones of hatred grains across Ukraine, making from Ukraine a
    volcano of hate towards the Russian culture.

    AA> The Caribbean crisis episode and talks were different. Warring
    AA> had not yet begun.

    Ukraine now looks like a fucking little boy who does mean things to his
    older brother when parents a somewhere near and will hear his
    deliberately loud howling when he get a deserved box on the ears from
    his older brother. This boy is a good and mean actor. He is happy when
    the older brother gets punishment from the parents and continues his
    mean behaviour.

    Bye, August!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue Oct 11 10:09:17 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 11.10.22 2:44:

    1) NATO != America
    Nato without America is nothing.
    As I said, I know that this is the "truth" in Russia. But you really should read up before
    you uncritically swallow the lies from Putin and his followers.
    You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore,
    You? Me? American? ROTFL
    Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even faster than Ukraine ;)
    More propaganda from Mad Vlad and company? Now that Putin's bosom buddy, #45, no longer has
    any power, and the attempts to break up NATO is off the table, it's unity is stronger than
    ever. Some countries have even giving up a 200 year long alliance free stand point to join and
    strengthen the organisation.

    200 years? That's all? Your memory is bad, you have to be reminded constantly. Also remember Alexander the Great. And Genghis Khan. The heirs suck. Blessed is he who believes. The more painful it will be to fall.

    And yes - I don't watch Russian TV at all. Enough Western documentaries. Not a single fucking victory with an equal opponent. All you can do is rattle metal in front of unarmed Papuans.

    2) I think you are thinking of how the USSR performed in the 1980s?
    We were withdrawing troops from Afghanistan without shameful flight,
    Even more history revision? The USSR's decade long "special military operation" in
    Afghanistan was the straw that finally broke the USSR camel's back and brought an end to a 70
    year old failed experiment with bastardized communism, forever giving communism (and
    socialism) a bad name in certain societies.

    Remind Vietnam? Hiroshima? Yugoslavia? Starving Africa in the former European colonies? 40 million homeless people in fucking capitalism? Is it "other"?

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to August Abolins on Tue Oct 11 10:25:47 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, August Abolins.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 10.10.22 19:55:

    Hello Oleg! ** On Monday 10.10.22 - 14:40, you wrote to Ward:
    [...] And yes, we haven't even started yet. So, while reluctantly warming up.
    You really have no idea what freedom is, do you?

    I seriously think that you don't know anything about real freedom.

    [...] Russia, by the way, gives its bread to Africa. Your country only takes it.
    Maybe that is a lie reported to you.

    Of course Africa is lying! And the Russians are only doing what they lie to the whole honest world. Another thing is strange - why does Ukraine feed Africa at all, and not the European colonizers? Have you forgotten how to grow bread there with your freedom? Oh, but how will poor unhappy France live without Ukrainian steel now? The mousetrap closed.

    [...] Poked the bears with a stick with a nail - no, does not answer, probably died. And when
    the bear swings, has breakfast with vodka, pulls out a couple of conventional hurricanes and
    goes waving, screaming "what are we for?" it will be too late.
    Speaking in cliches and is not a wise communication strategy. It may only indicate how
    conditioned you are to think one way only.

    Well, of course you think for everyone, but of course, we believe right unconditionally ;)
    Especially after the found production of a dirty bomb with Western components. Sincere concern for the neighbor straight. And well, how will it "fly" in your direction, have you ever wondered, no? By God's providence. A stoned, crazed Ukrainian monkey with a grenade can still think soberly and throw it to its destination.




    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 11 12:43:57 2022
    Oleg,

    Of course Africa is lying! And the Russians are only doing what they lie
    to the whole honest world.

    Russian authorities are not lying to the world, but to the Russian population and by 100% controlling the media and wiping-out any dissent, the minds of ordinary Russians have been polluted for years on end.

    BTW ... there are 120 freighters anchored in the Black Sea for grain transports and they can't move because Russian inspections take from 6 to 10 days per vessel ... how difficult can it be.

    Oh, but how will poor unhappy
    France live without Ukrainian steel now? The mousetrap closed.

    Ukraine is going to be a worldwide supplier of scrap Russian steel.

    Especially after the found production of a dirty bomb with Western components.

    Even the rockets Russia is firing at innocent civilians have Western components ... and ... wow ... iPhones in Russia also have Western components.

    Your boss has announced that Russia is going to be building its own airliners and move away from Boeing as well as Airbus ... that will be very amusing as more than 40% of the parts are US and European made and under sanctions. Whatever you find in a cockpit of the SSJ100 is Western made ... Bendix, Honeywell, ... and no way to build them for yourselves for at least another 10 years ... Amusing ... keep on going Oleg, at least you entertain.

    In case you missed it, Russia has just lost its permanent seat in the ICAO.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 11 15:09:56 2022
    And yes - I don't watch Russian TV at all. Enough Western documentaries. Not a single fucking victory with an equal opponent. All you can do is rattle metal in front of unarmed Papuans.

    I guess you are not allowed to know how USSR "won" the great war? Answer: it was all thanks to the USA. Not their military, but the workers (mostly women) over there. Before Mad Vlad screams Bloody Murder about how the west is sending help to Ukraine, maybe he should contemplate the following:

    Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, USA sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the Nazi invasion. Totalling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today's currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the "enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy -- bloodthirsty Hitlerism."

    400,000 Jeeps & trucks
    14,000 airplanes (!)
    8,000 tractors
    13,000 tanks (!)
    1.5 million blankets
    15 million pairs of army boots
    107,000 tons of cotton
    2.7 million tons of petrol products
    4.5 million tons of food

    Compare that to what the democratic world has sent to Ukraine to help the fight against the common enemy -- bloodthirsty Putinism.

    Without this help, Hitler would have obliterated the USSR. Hmm... Maybe the world would have been a better place then (e.g. no Cold War, no Putinism), even if it might have taken a few months longer to liberate Europe. Germany had already lost the war circa early 1944, they just didn't realize it until their cities lay in ruins.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 11 18:38:31 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 11.10.22 15:09:

    And yes - I don't watch Russian TV at all. Enough Western documentaries. Not a single fucking
    victory with an equal opponent. All you can do is rattle metal in front of unarmed Papuans.
    I guess you are not allowed to know how USSR "won" the great war? Answer: it was all thanks
    to the USA. Not their military, but the workers (mostly women) over there. Before Mad Vlad
    screams Bloody Murder about how the west is sending help to Ukraine, maybe he should
    contemplate the following:

    No one denies US aid. But what happened after 1945 did not fit into any gates. The common enemy disappeared and animal fear took its place. On both sides. Truman also spurred it on with Stalin's blackmail and the nuclear bombing of Japan. The struggle for hegemony in a world no longer threatened by Hitler has turned into a threat from a former ally, the USSR. If they were not afraid, they would not be engaged in the development of nuclear weapons.

    Compare that to what the democratic world has sent to Ukraine to help the fight against the
    common enemy -- bloodthirsty Putinism.

    You didn't notice that USA and co. are you constantly looking for enemies all over the world? The "test tubes" in Iraq were invented, then Kosovo, then Vietnam, then Korea, then Afghanistan, then Gaddafi, socialism, communism - you can list endlessly! Now you invented new one - "putinism"... Why is Iceland not at war with anyone? And, in my opinion, Canada. Do they need the least? Or do the States need the most? ;) If the States turn away from Ukraine (they may well, they have their mouth full of internal problems) - Europe will not pull. At least with your own hands - you understand that the "gift" will arrive immediately and no one will yoke for you.

    Today Ukraine send to Donbass some little radioactive gifts... By missiles. Are you sure that the same will not come to you? For example, you will stop supporting Ukraine, and its cocaine president will be offended... Maybe he's been blackmailing you for a long time, who knows ;) No, no one will be harnessed.

    Without this help, Hitler would have obliterated the USSR. Hmm... Maybe the world would
    have been a better place then (e.g. no Cold War, no Putinism), even if it might have taken a
    few months longer to liberate Europe. Germany had already lost the war circa early 1944, they
    just didn't realize it until their cities lay in ruins.

    Unlikely. We would have had a little harder and possibly at a higher price, but hardly much.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 11 19:17:26 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 11.10.22 12:43:

    Of course Africa is lying! And the Russians are only doing what they lie to the whole honest
    world.
    Russian authorities are not lying to the world, but to the Russian population and by 100%
    controlling the media and wiping-out any dissent, the minds of ordinary Russians have been
    polluted for years on end.

    So you admit that Putin is telling the truth. Inside, we somehow learned over many decades to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    BTW ... there are 120 freighters anchored in the Black Sea for grain transports and they can't
    move because Russian inspections take from 6 to 10 days per vessel ... how difficult can it
    be.

    Your sanctions, we didn't pull anyone by the tongue.

    Oh, but how will poor unhappy France live without Ukrainian steel now? The mousetrap closed.
    Ukraine is going to be a worldwide supplier of scrap Russian steel.

    So far, it turns out more and more Soviet and Western. But France does not need such a thing, such a se la vie.

    Especially after the found production of a dirty bomb with Western components.
    Even the rockets Russia is firing at innocent civilians have Western components ... and ...
    wow ... iPhones in Russia also have Western components.

    Naive. SSJ has already received domestic engines, not to mention small things. And somehow, unlike the West, we managed to preserve our aircraft production. In the USSR, we did not walk from Konigsberg to Nakhodka. And it was your gentle ears that forbade us to fly to Europe on our engines. We spit on your opinion from orbit ;)

    And what kind of shit the iPhone is made of is a personal problem of the owners. Half of the services don't work on them anyway, including navigation - strange mountain people who buy this shit for the price of half a car ;)

    Have fun for now, it won't be long. By the way, I have a completely different Boss ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Tue Oct 11 19:28:43 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 11.10.22 2:44:

    1) NATO != America
    Nato without America is nothing.
    As I said, I know that this is the "truth" in Russia. But you really should read up before
    you uncritically swallow the lies from Putin and his followers.

    Really? From where, working undercover?

    I've been living too long not to understand which of you is lying ;)

    You have nothing but an excessive sense of self-worth anymore,
    You? Me? American? ROTFL

    Well, English is basically a very poor language. Green green green green green ;) but in Russian it sounds like poetry ;)

    Nato, together with the European Union, may disintegrate even faster than Ukraine ;)
    More propaganda from Mad Vlad and company? Now that Putin's bosom buddy, #45, no longer has
    any power, and the attempts to break up NATO is off the table, it's unity is stronger than
    ever. Some countries have even giving up a 200 year long alliance free stand point to join and
    strengthen the organisation.

    Well no, it's Western propaganda ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 11 19:49:11 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 11.10.22 10:05:

    It so happened that the Ukraine coup and the following havoc happened when Putin is in power.
    And because of that any Russian reaction looked discredited. But if you ask me who is more
    fucking and crazy in the Ukraine I will say -- now doubts -- it is Ukraine ultra-nationalists
    who planted tones of hatred grains across Ukraine, making from Ukraine a volcano of hate
    towards the Russian culture.

    They were quite successfully managed by the same ones who brainwashed the whole of Ukraine. And the collective West did all this.

    And Putin - everyone in the West was satisfied. While he was scraping and begging. As soon as he changed his rhetoric to a bearish grin, he immediately became objectionable, non-friendly and discredited. And the West gave birth to sanctions just like lightning - it was prepared in advance, there could not have been any friendship initially, centuries ago.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to August Abolins on Tue Oct 11 20:00:12 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, August Abolins.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 10.10.22 19:48:

    Putin has not shown that he is interested to respect anyone's interests except his own. And
    now, it is too late for him; he's already started warring.

    You are always afraid of the strong, that's good.
    Nikita should have stayed calm in 1962, now the survivors in the West would have been more accommodating ;) The USSR then had every chance of success.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 11 19:09:44 2022
    Your sanctions, we didn't pull anyone by the tongue.

    The delays are in a Turkish port where Russians inspect the cargo. How difficult can it be to inspect a cargo of wheat ... takes 6-10 days.

    Naive. SSJ has already received domestic engines, not to mention small things. And somehow, unlike the West, we managed to preserve our aircraft production.

    Actually, the SSJ100 is an economic and technical disaster. Cityjet (Ireland) and Brussels Airlines (Belgium) sent their SSJ100s back. Very uneconomical and the inability to provide spare parts were at the source. VLM simply cancelled its order for 10. In Mexico they were taken off-line and basically they are only being used by Russian companies simply because they have to. The reliability of the Embraer 175 is much higher and the load-factor times 3.

    Plus the high-impact accidents ... They will solely be used inside Russia, not making a profit and ordinary Russians will have to pay for them without flying them.

    Have fun for now, it won't be long. By the way, I have a completely different Boss ;)

    I'm going on an interesting voyage in 2.5 weeks from now. No hard feelings but I will noy miss you ...

    Enjoy the day.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 11 22:40:26 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    [..]

    Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and Putin together.
    They will be sure to make peace with each other, both winning the
    Nobel Peace Prize.

    "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children of
    God." ~Matthew 5:9

    For this the West should take a plunger piston to clean its eyes which don't see in the Ukraine two fighting nations and a nationalistic conflict. The idea that the war is caused only by the Putin's desire to capture Ukraine is wrong.

    The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three people/groups this year.
    Neither Trump nor Putin was mentioned.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Work sets you free.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 11 22:40:32 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    UN Resolution 478 [passed] called Israel's action regarding
    Jerusalem (Knesset claim of Jerusalem being capital of Israel)
    as being "null and void."

    The same applies to all other countries making such an audacious
    claim. So what does it matter? Trump and Putin can claim
    whatever they want. But that does not make it so.
    Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids have rocks.
    Guess which side always wins such contests?
    Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming those
    Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...

    A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son bitch" is still very actual. ;-)

    The status of Jerusalem remains the same - special status placed
    under international sovereignty control. Despite Putin and Trump
    recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish-only capital of Israel.
    Imagine that. The only two countries in the world doing such a
    thing. No wonder the UN doesn't pay any attention to them.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 12 09:37:04 2022
    Hi, Oleg Nazaroff!
    I read your message from 11.10.2022 19:49

    AK>> It so happened that the Ukraine coup and the following
    AK>> havoc happened when Putin is in power. And because of that
    AK>> any Russian reaction looked discredited. But if you ask me
    AK>> who is more fucking and crazy in the Ukraine I will say --
    AK>> now doubts -- it is Ukraine ultra-nationalists who planted
    AK>> tones of hatred grains across Ukraine, making from Ukraine
    AK>> a volcano of hate towards the Russian culture.
    ON> They were quite successfully managed by the same ones who
    ON> brainwashed the whole of Ukraine. And the collective West did
    ON> all this. And Putin - everyone in the West was satisfied. While
    ON> he was scraping and begging. As soon as he changed his rhetoric to a
    ON> bearish grin, he immediately became objectionable, non-friendly and
    ON> discredited. And the West gave birth to sanctions just like
    lightning -
    ON> it was prepared in advance, there could not have been any friendship
    ON> initially, centuries ago.

    First of all the West should gather some still unrotted brains and
    realize the reason why Ukraine actions are unacceptable for Russia. They should understand that a capture of territories is not the reason. First
    of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its Russian people,
    due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8 years.
    Also the West must realize that Russian could not close its eyes on what
    was happening with Russian people in Ukraine after 2014.

    Bye, Oleg!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 12 09:49:48 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 11.10.2022 23:40

    LL>>> Now it is time for Joe Biden to bring Zelensky and
    LL>>> Putin together. They will be sure to make peace with
    LL>>> each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.
    LL>>> "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called
    LL>>> children of God." ~Matthew 5:9
    ak>> For this the West should take a plunger piston to clean its
    ak>> eyes which don't see in the Ukraine two fighting nations
    ak>> and a nationalistic conflict. The idea that the war is
    ak>> caused only by the Putin's desire to capture Ukraine is
    ak>> wrong.
    LL> The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three people/groups this
    LL> year. Neither Trump nor Putin was mentioned.

    We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to
    kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
    first. :)

    And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
    have little difference with what Putin is doing now. Just for some
    reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 12 09:52:09 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 11.10.2022 23:40

    LL>>> The same applies to all other countries making such an
    LL>>> audacious claim. So what does it matter? Trump and
    LL>>> Putin can claim whatever they want. But that does not
    LL>>> make it so. Israeli army has tanks. Palestinian kids
    LL>>> have rocks. Guess which side always wins such contests?
    LL>>> Of course, things could change if NATO starts arming
    LL>>> those Palestinian kids will heavier stuff ...
    ak>> A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son
    ak>> bitch" is still very actual. ;-)
    LL> The status of Jerusalem remains the same - special status placed
    LL> under international sovereignty control. Despite Putin and Trump
    LL> recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish-only capital of Israel.
    LL> Imagine that. The only two countries in the world doing such a
    LL> ??thing. No wonder the UN doesn't pay any attention to them.

    Does Putin recognized it? Never heard of it.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 09:32:16 2022
    We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to
    kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
    first. :)

    Making Obama the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize at that moment in his presidency was a mistake. We'll never know what got in the Norwegians head when they decided that.

    And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
    have little difference with what Putin is doing now. Just for some
    reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

    You need to travel a bit more to the west and experience first hand how it is going with all those refugees, not just what your single state controled medium is feeding you.

    Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 09:38:07 2022
    First
    of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its Russian people, due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8 years.

    In a free world with a free uncontrolled press, as we have it here, with free access to whatever newssource, you really think that only Russia would be aware if it were really the case? We know everything there is to know about the love-life of the three-legged Patagonian rabit living in burrows but nothing about Ukraine?

    But one of the most controled societies with no free press, no free universal elections, no freedom of speech, no civil liberties with only the People's Republic of China and North Korea being worse, would be universally better informed?

    Oh dear ...

    You do realize there's very little difference between the pope in Rome with his dogmatic leadership and Putin? "Things are the way they are because I say so" ... no proof, no scientific support needed ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 10:11:17 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 9:37:

    First of all the West should gather some still unrotted brains and realize the reason why
    Ukraine actions are unacceptable for Russia. They should understand that a capture of
    territories is not the reason. First of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its
    Russian people, due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8 years. Also the West must
    realize that Russian could not close its eyes on what was happening with Russian people in
    Ukraine after 2014.

    Yes, we understand everything.. And Ward cares about Africa much more. Hungry refugees will come to his house. And to prevent this from happening, for some reason, it is Russia that must feed Africa. What is happening in Ukraine - Ward does not care...

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 12:12:08 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 9:38:

    In a free world with a free uncontrolled press, as we have it here, with free access to
    whatever newssource, you really think that only Russia would be aware if it were really the
    case? We know everything there is to know about the love-life of the three-legged Patagonian
    rabit living in burrows but nothing about Ukraine? But one of the most controled societies
    with no free press, no free universal elections, no freedom of speech, no civil liberties with
    only the People's Republic of China and North Korea being worse, would be universally better
    informed?

    Well, perhaps that's what you believe.
    The fact that the "free press" in Russia should only be engaged in propagandizing the change of power, objectionable to the West, rocking the boat in this direction, and then whining to the whole "free" world that it was misunderstood in Russia. We know, we have already swum. We see perfectly well how all these "liberation" technologies of yours work all over the world, including in Ukraine.
    Are there no free elections in Russia? Did Western observers tell you this at our elections? Why do they write something completely different? Oh, yes, I forgot, "free press" is the freedom to lie. And how convenient.
    What civil liberties do we not have, but do you have? The freedom to live in a cardboard box? Freedom not to work? Freedom to die because there is no health insurance?

    You do realize there's very little difference between the pope in Rome with his dogmatic
    leadership and Putin? "Things are the way they are because I say so" ... no proof, no
    scientific support needed ...

    No one forbids - the borders are open, with Western propaganda - to the west.

    --
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 12:19:51 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 9:32:

    Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

    Why do you care so much about us at the front? I'm here now, we beat the fascist bastard. Do you want to join on the side of Ukraine? Go ahead! One Ward more, one less... You'll be the first to surrender. If you survive, maybe your brains will fall into place.


    --
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 12:29:44 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 9:32:

    And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world have little difference
    with what Putin is doing now. Just for some reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as
    less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)
    You need to travel a bit more to the west and experience first hand how it is going with all
    those refugees, not just what your single state controled medium is feeding you.

    I have enough experience of living in the West, in different countries of the Europe and USA. And there is something to compare in Africa and Asia. So with propaganda, you're past.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 12 12:41:13 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 11.10.22 22:40:

    A famous phrase "He is a son of bitch, but he is our son bitch" is still very actual. ;-)
    The status of Jerusalem remains the same - special status placed under international
    sovereignty control. Despite Putin and Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish-only capital
    of Israel. Imagine that. The only two countries in the world doing such a thing. No wonder the
    UN doesn't pay any attention to them.

    Formally, yes, in reality, Jews continue to evict Palestinians, demolish their houses and build new ones on the same place, but for Jews. Only the Old City remains untouched (and of course a few kilometers around) - everything has been divided there for a long time and no seizures and wars really do not happen. The outskirts continue to displace the Palestinians. Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)

    If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is within the limits of the Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 14:21:34 2022
    Hi, Ward Dossche!
    I read your message from 12.10.2022 10:32

    WD> Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

    Who knows -- the two has entered in the taste and up the ante. Probably
    many millions of people will be affected before one of the chess players
    dies. And note, both sides claim and cry that their aims are holy,
    highly moral and just. ;=)

    Bye, Ward!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 14:48:40 2022
    Hi, Ward Dossche!
    I read your message from 12.10.2022 10:38

    ak>> First of all Ukraine has been loosing not territories, but its
    ak>> Russian people, due to the fucking nationalistic policy for last 8
    ak>> years.

    WD> In a free world with a free uncontrolled press, as we have it here,
    WD> with free access to whatever newssource, you really think that only
    WD> Russia would be aware if it were really the case? We know
    WD> everything there is to know about the love-life of the three-legged
    WD> Patagonian rabit living in burrows but nothing about Ukraine?

    WD> But one of the most controled societies with no free press, no free
    WD> universal elections, no freedom of speech, no civil liberties with
    WD> only the People's Republic of China and North Korea being worse,
    WD> would be universally better informed?

    WD> Oh dear...

    Again you are wrong -- if people in Russia want to read western media
    they can do it -- we still have WWW without any (Great fire)walls as in
    China or the North Korea. Yes, some Internet resources are blocked, but
    it is only a formal blocking.

    I mean that people have all the information about the events in Ukraine
    to make a choice. But it is just impossible to tell them in honest that
    "a good and fluffy Ukrainian troops have been shelling Donbass for 8
    years to make it happy". Such an idiot idea can be born only in the
    brains of those who never saw reports of Donbass bloody siege and
    destruction. You of course will say that it is a propaganda lie -- but
    there is no reason for Russia to lie about it. Millions of Ukrainians
    who have fled from Donbass to Russia for last 8 years, are good witnesses.

    https://www.interfax.ru/russia/843025
    Use the Google translator if you are allowed to read Russian resources.

    Bye, Ward!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 12 13:51:14 2022
    Oleg,

    Yes, we understand everything.. And Ward cares about Africa much more. Hungry refugees will come to his house. And to prevent this from
    happening, for some reason, it is Russia that must feed Africa. What is happening in Ukraine - Ward does not care...

    Russia feeding Africa? Whatever you've been smoking, potent stuff.

    Talk to the UNHCR.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 12 14:18:38 2022
    But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

    Put your money where your mouth is and die for Russia ...

    No ?

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 12 14:22:40 2022
    Well, perhaps that'swhat you believe.

    "Believing" is done in a church (or a similar building).

    The fact that the "free press" in Russia ...

    There is no free press in Russia. It has been effectively shut down.

    Are there no free elections in Russia? Did Western observers tell you
    this at our elections? Why do they write something completely different?

    Correct. There are no free elections in Russia. Anybody, anyone running for high office will hit a brick wall making it impossible to run for such office ... arrests. imprisonment, people's initiatives shut down by some law if can and by force if must.

    The number of normal healthy people in positions of some power whom fell off balconies, steps, into the water ... killing themselves in the process ... nobody in their right minds accepts this "just happened by accident".

    Russia at the moment is a power-corrupted rogue-nation at war with its own citizens and nobody can really say who or what's pulling strings...

    Oh, yes, I forgot, "free press" is the freedom to lie.

    If you consider Dossche's 17th law on the internet "Lying is an ultimate form of free speech" then you're getting closer to agree with me on something.

    What civil liberties do we not have, but do you have?

    * A multi-party political system which requires consensus for the benefit of
    the people, not the benefit of the state

    * The possibility to oppose our government without being jailed

    * The possibility to unite

    * The possibility to bear arms

    * The possibility to wave a rainbow flag

    * ... there's more where that came from.

    No one forbids - the borders are open, with Western propaganda - to the west.

    For that you need a passport ... do Russians carry passports?

    Also you cannot be on specific lists because you will not be entitled to leave ...

    Let me put it this way ... more Russian males are crossing the borders than the number that has been called up.

    Remarkable nobody is fleeing towards Russia ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 06:08:18 2022
    Such an idiot idea can be born only in the brains of those who never saw reports of Donbass bloody siege and destruction.

    It was not a seige of Donbass. Russia has been in the Donbass for 8 years attacking Ukraine. I'm sure you understand that.

    You of course will say that it is a propaganda lie

    So it is.

    -- but there is no reason for Russia to lie about it.

    Russia is a good liar. How can they be trusted now?

    Millions of Ukrainians who have fled from Donbass to Russia for last 8
    years, are good witnesses.

    Millions of Ukrainians (some 6.6 million) have fled the war, not Ukraine.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 16:37:26 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 14:22:

    "Believing" is done in a church (or a similar building).

    No. Because you can't know for sure and you only get the information you believe ;)

    The fact that the "free press" in Russia ...
    There is no free press in Russia. It has been effectively shut down.

    OK, let's assume it's not there. Was there? And what exactly is it?

    Are there no free elections in Russia? Did Western observers tell you this at our elections?
    Why do they write something completely different?
    Correct. There are no free elections in Russia. Anybody, anyone running for high office will
    hit a brick wall making it impossible to run for such office ... arrests. imprisonment,
    people's initiatives shut down by some law if can and by force if must.

    Is this about Monsieur Ovalny? ;) I don't see any candidates in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, France, etc. who would receive a donation to undermine the current government at the expense of Russia, for example ;) And Navalny didn't even hide it. And they were able to close it only after the Constitution was changed, eliminating the rights of the West to influence Russia's domestic policy. Who else?

    The number of normal healthy people in positions of some power whom fell off balconies, steps,
    into the water ... killing themselves in the process ... nobody in their right minds accepts
    this "just happened by accident".

    Stress breeds insanity, great stress - suicide. Look at how many conscripts committed suicide. This has never happened before and here it is again...

    Russia at the moment is a power-corrupted rogue-nation at war with its own citizens and nobody
    can really say who or what's pulling strings...

    But it was an emergency. The time will come when you will be surprised how much.

    Oh, yes, I forgot, "free press" is the freedom to lie.
    If you consider Dossche's 17th law on the internet "Lying is an ultimate form of free speech"
    then you're getting closer to agree with me on something.

    If only. But the West already recognizes the facts of lies.

    What civil liberties do we not have, but do you have?
    * A multi-party political system which requires consensus for the benefit of
    the people, not the benefit of the state

    And that's the way it is.

    * The possibility to oppose our government without being jailed

    Not during the period of military operations.

    * The possibility to unite

    In the public space - in consultation with the authorities. Where this is not the case, it leads to dangerous riots for society.
    At the same time, no one forbids us to unite in a private space, which happens quite often.

    * The possibility to bear arms

    Debatable. Have, store, transport - please. But society is not ripe for carrying weapons - there are enough murders with "non-lethal" weapons. Lethal instills extra confidence, but it will not save you from competent bandits, but it will aggravate. I have many and varied weapons, but I never carry them with me. Unnecessarily.

    * The possibility to wave a rainbow flag

    No, this is a typical Western value. Fuck each other somehow. It is not worth promoting the deletion of oneself from the gene pool. May be misinterpreted ;)

    No one forbids - the borders are open, with Western propaganda - to the west.
    For that you need a passport ... do Russians carry passports?

    How long has it been since crossing the border of Belgium and the USA without a passport??
    How Russians carry passports - I don't care ;) I have my own with me only when moving somewhere to a neighboring region, for example. For medical care, for example. I don't need a passport in my city.

    Also you cannot be on specific lists because you will not be entitled to leave ...

    During the mobilization period, yes. Although also not everywhere. A week ago, there were no such lists at Sheremetyevo-2 airport.

    Let me put it this way ... more Russian males are crossing the borders than the number that
    has been called up.

    It's their own business. A lot of people are returning right now from Kazakhstan - they are being tritely beaten on the streets there. An unenviable fate that there that here... Fear is what drives people. Do you think I'm not scared? ;) The first chakra is a pledge of self-preservation. But everyone has their own level... those who have served, but not shot, come to us - they are brought to a normal state exclusively by talking about it, and only then by special training..

    Remarkable nobody is fleeing towards Russia ...

    I wrote above. They run - there is nowhere else. Nobody needs pussies.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 16:40:55 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 14:18:

    But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.
    Put your money where your mouth is and die for Russia ... No ?

    Definitely not. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best and be what it should. Well, who else besides us?

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 16:51:01 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 13:51:

    Oleg,
    Yes, we understand everything.. And Ward cares about Africa much more. Hungry refugees will
    come to his house. And to prevent this from happening, for some reason, it is Russia that
    must feed Africa. What is happening in Ukraine - Ward does not care...
    Russia feeding Africa? Whatever you've been smoking, potent stuff.

    Imagine that. But your fucking sanctions allow to transfer grain only to Europe. OK, stay hungry. You can cheat only once.
    Starving people will also come to you ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 15:55:05 2022
    Also the West must realize that Russian could not close its eyes on what was happening with Russian people in Ukraine after 2014.

    How do you define "Russian people"? None of them having a Ukrainian citizenship, only Russian?

    In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as outside of Russia.

    It didn't take long before many Russians realized that their new Russia remained the same authoritarian, corrupt country as was the USSR, so those that lived nearby the newly created *democratic* country next door, sold all they had and emigrated to Ukraine -- mostly to the regions closest to the Russian border.

    Ukraine welcomed those immigrants with open arms, granting them Ukrainian citizenship. Unfortunately the Putinists soon started sending all kinds of thugs as well, and those started all kinds of insurrections and blatant terrorist actions. And the rest is sad, unfortunate history...

    So don't you come here with your fucking Putinist propaganda; out here in the free world we have enough facts, past as well as present, to be able to expose all your lies and fairy-tales.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 12 23:10:16 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 15:55:

    In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years since the *Ukrainian*
    people voted for independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In
    a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
    outside of Russia.

    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum with the results of 93% for the return of the status of an autonomous Soviet socialist republic as part of the union state, but instead received the formal status of autonomy within the Ukrainian SSR. Subsequently, President of Ukraine Kuchma repeatedly stated that Crimea received the status of autonomy in general only in order to smooth out popular unrest. Crimea has not received any real autonomy. That is, a deception on the part of Ukraine. Is it surprising that in 2014 the referendum was repeated and Crimea was accepted into Russia???
    What kind of annexation? This is a secession.


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 23:59:18 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    [..]

    The Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three people/groups this
    year. Neither Trump nor Putin was mentioned.

    We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
    first. :)

    I think we all know who invented TNT. :)

    And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
    have little difference with what Putin is doing now.

    Howard Zinn wrote a book on it. An entire history of US actions.
    But who is to say other countries have not done the same?

    Just for some reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians.

    "Is that manly?"
    ~ Saddam Hussein's last words to his Shiite executioners

    "No mas!"
    ~ Roberto Duran's last words to Sugar Ray Leonard in New Orleans

    Probable white racism. ;=)

    "These are not my real teeth."
    ~ Sugar Ray Leonard to Roberto Duran, years later

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    The more you play with it the harder it gets

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 12 23:59:28 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    [..]

    Does Putin recognized it? Never heard of it.

    Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I know of.
    With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia, that would make
    sense, as immigration issues would be of importance to both
    countries.

    Recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel by Putin
    and Trump mean nothing in regards to international recognition.
    Or even in regards to national policy. It is just a personal
    opinion.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 12 23:59:33 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    [..]

    Formally, yes, in reality, Jews continue to evict Palestinians, demolish their houses and build new ones on the same place, but for Jews. Only the Old City remains untouched (and of course a few kilometers around) - everything has been divided there for a long time and no seizures and wars really do not happen. The outskirts continue to displace the Palestinians. Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)

    Israel has disregarded international law for decades. No surprise
    there. It acts more like a theocracy than a democracy, and the only
    people who have any rights are Jewish. Palestinians are basically
    stateless, with no real voice to change their situation.

    If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is within the limits of the Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

    The Right of Return.

    Any Jew around the world enjoys the right to live in Israel and to
    obtain Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return.

    No other country in the world has such a rule.

    The USA does not recognize dual citizenship. Except for those who
    are from Vatican City and Israel. Only an act of Congress can grant
    dual citizenship to others, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, who got
    his dual citizenship (Austria and USA) by marrying a Kennedy.

    Steven Segal managed to get dual citizenship by having Vladimir
    Putin wave his magic wand and nobody questioned anything.

    And to think Segal did it without an act of Congress.

    I love his movies. Fun to work with, when he was filming a series
    in New Orleans. Getting a bit too old for that sort of thing today.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 23:59:39 2022
    Hello Ward,

    Yes yes. The whole world saw how brave Americans escaped from the Taliban
    in rags and with rusty machine guns ;)

    They ran from then Saigon in the 1980-ies.

    The US does not know how to exit wars well. Its exit from Saigon
    and Vietnam was an unmitigated disaster. Nobody questions that, or
    should. The US military could have held its ground, keeping the
    partition of Vietnam in place forever. But the reality is the US
    should had left years before, when LBJ had a peace deal in place
    for when Nixon took over as POTUS.

    They didn't run in Afghanistan.

    Although the US exit from Afghanistan was far from perfect, it was
    done much better than its exit from Vietnam. No refugees having to
    be rescued from the rooftop of the US embassy, no refugees fleeing
    on rickety boats to nowhere ...

    Most of the American operations had already been contracted out to private companies with limited military presence. Friend of mine was there, the salaries were so high he bought a $320.000 house cash ... with the money in
    his pocket ... earned in 3 years. This was like 6yrs ago already.

    Those who did not get killed, or captured for ransom, fared pretty
    well. Aside from Kabul, there was no real protection from the Taliban
    by the US military. And even then, the Taliban were able to conduct
    raids inside the city.

    Afghanistan troops were incompetent of provading security, that's why the US
    left, shouldn't have been there in the first place.

    Afghanistan troops were poorly armed, and poorly trained. Even though
    the US military was present for twenty years. The Taliban was also
    poorly armed, and poorly trained. But they had more enthusiasm to do
    what they wanted to do. Which was the difference.

    But do not confuse NATO with America. There are several more nuclear capable
    countries member of NATO.

    How long would it take Germany to arm itself with nukes?
    How long would it take Italy to arm itself with nukes?
    How long would it take other countries in Europe to do so?
    France already has a stockpile. So does the UK.

    Britain in 1982 went to war 13.000km away and beat the shit out of Argentina...without nukes. Just conventional.

    Russia is nothing more than a giant gas station with nukes.
    Its ability to use nukes is its equalizer. Otherwise, its military
    might is quite limited - as demonstrated by its inability to bend
    Ukraine to its will.

    That is what Bjorn was saying, conventionally the Russian army is not a threat anymore.

    It remains a threat. But its neighbors are starting to realize that
    threat is not nearly as great as its roar.

    Just the nukes, and in a nuclear war there are no winners.

    Ants and cockroaches win. Everybody else loses.

    I think we agree on that ...

    As per the contest between ants and cockroaches ...

    [..]

    I live pretty close to NATO HQ here, if one day my node goes into a high-pitched shriek, people will know what happened.

    Oh, my. Radioactive ants and cockroaches. Who'd a thunk it?

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Laying Pipe Since '88

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 23:59:47 2022
    Hello Ward,

    [..]

    I'm going on an interesting voyage in 2.5 weeks from now. No hard feelings but I will noy miss you ...

    Space X.
    First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

    Enjoy the day.

    "Will I dream?"
    ~ HAL 9000

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Drive One

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 12 23:59:55 2022
    Hello Ward,

    We can make a record table of Nobel price politicians according to
    kilotons of TNT blown during their rule. ;-) Obama will be probably
    first. :)

    Making Obama the recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize at that moment in his presidency was a mistake. We'll never know what got in the Norwegians head when they decided that.

    Making Begin and Sadat recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize without
    naming Carter was a mistake. We'll never know what got into the
    Norwegians head when they decided that. But at least they made up
    for it later, granting him the Nobel Peace Prize for something
    else (that nobody can remember).

    And to think they did it again, with Rabin and Arafat, leaving out
    Clinton. Oh, my. What were those Norwegians thinking???

    But hey. At least they got it right with Obama. Naming him the winner
    of the Nobel Peace Prize before he did anything of merit.

    And in general, unlawful Americans military actions around the world
    have little difference with what Putin is doing now. Just for some
    reason people in the West treat Ukrainians as less inferior people than
    Iraqis, Afghans, Libyans, Panamanians. Probable white racism. ;=)

    You need to travel a bit more to the west and experience first hand how it is going with all those refugees, not just what your single state controled
    medium is feeding you.

    Yes. Come to Louisiana. Leave different. Rougarou festival later this
    month. Cajuns from all over dress as monsters. Some of them are real.

    Besides, when are you leaving to the front?

    There's a monster under my bed ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Pork: the other white meat

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 13 00:00:04 2022
    Hello Ward,

    But I consider it my duty now to be together with Russia.

    Put your money where your mouth is and die for Russia ...

    Hitler fled to South America rather than die for Germany ...

    No ?

    He left his girlfriend, and his dog, behind.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If it doesn't say Jiffy Lube, it's not Jiffy Lube

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 01:55:26 2022
    a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
    outside of Russia.

    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

    What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Alan Ianson on Thu Oct 13 09:29:30 2022
    Hi, Alan Ianson!
    I read your message from 12.10.2022 16:08

    ak>> Such an idiot idea can be born only in the brains of those who
    ak>> never saw reports of Donbass bloody siege and destruction.

    AI> It was not a seige of Donbass. Russia has been in the Donbass for 8
    AI> years attacking Ukraine. I'm sure you understand that.

    I am sure you know it was not Russian troops. We can see the same kind
    of foreign people in Ukraine fighting on Zelensky side, and nobody says
    that NATO participated in the conflict directly.
    Russian troops entered Ukraine in February 2022.

    ak>> You of course will say that it is a propaganda lie
    AI> So it is.
    ak>> -- but there is no reason for Russia to lie about it.
    AI> Russia is a good liar. How can they be trusted now?

    Who has never lied - let him first cast a stone at me. ;-)

    ak>> Millions of Ukrainians who have fled from Donbass to Russia for
    ak>> last 8 years, are good witnesses.

    AI> Millions of Ukrainians (some 6.6 million) have fled the war, not
    AI> Ukraine.

    Only note, they fled to Russia not to Ukraine.

    Bye, Alan!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Bj?rn Felten on Thu Oct 13 09:58:07 2022
    Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
    I read your message from 12.10.2022 16:55

    ak>> Also the West must realize that Russian could not close its eyes
    ak>> on what was happening with Russian people in Ukraine after 2014.

    BF> How do you define "Russian people"? None of them having a Ukrainian
    BF> citizenship, only Russian?

    It is easy. There was old Russia, then it had become the USSR, and
    Russians consists of the main part of it. After dissolving the USSR tens millions of Russian people appeared to live in the former USSR states.
    Some nationalists who came to power there wanted them to refuse to call themselves Russians. They say if you now in Ukraine, for instance, you
    must be called Ukrainians (according western Ukrainian standards, and
    Ukraine language).
    In Ukraine there was an attempt to make millions Russians change his nationality by force and violence. It happened when ultra-nationalist
    forces came to power in 2014.

    BF> In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years
    BF> since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from Russia,
    BF> with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a *proper*
    BF> referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside
    BF> as well as outside of Russia.

    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to
    preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which
    referendum is more honest?

    BF> It didn't take long before many Russians realized that their new
    BF> Russia remained the same authoritarian, corrupt country as was the
    BF> USSR, so those that lived nearby the newly created *democratic*
    BF> country next door, sold all they had and emigrated to Ukraine --
    BF> mostly to the regions closest to the Russian border.

    Everything was OK for Russians in Ukraine until 2014, and Yanukovich was
    a really democratic leader. But the things changed dramatically. There
    is no democracy in Ukraine now.

    BF> So don't you come here with your fucking Putinist propaganda; out
    BF> here in the free world we have enough facts, past as well as
    BF> present, to be able to expose all your lies and fairy-tales.

    Putin for you is as Carabas-Barabas from the Pinoccio tale. You as a
    child cannot see anything behind his beard.

    Bye, Bj?rn!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Oct 13 10:02:13 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 13.10.2022 00:59

    ak>> Did Putin recognize it? Never heard of it.
    LL> Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I know of.
    LL> With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia, that would make
    LL> sense, as immigration issues would be of importance to both
    LL> countries.

    Travelling is not recognition in such issues.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Thu Oct 13 09:50:50 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 1:55:

    a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
    outside of Russia.
    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum
    What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

    And it was by the right proper legal referendum of 1991 that the people of Crimea were deceived by Ukraine! You really do NOT understand.

    I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and without looking to the international community, but Russia cannot. Because it's a stab in the throat for the West - tomorrow someone else will want to do the same? An animal fear of losing hegemony is what it is.
    And all our referendums are freely supervised by the West.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Oct 13 10:05:34 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 23:59:

    Formally, yes, in reality, Jews continue to evict Palestinians, demolish their houses and
    build new ones on the same place, but for Jews. Only the Old City remains untouched (and of
    course a few kilometers around) - everything has been divided there for a long time and no
    seizures and wars really do not happen. The outskirts continue to displace the Palestinians.
    Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)
    Israel has disregarded international law for decades. No surprise there. It acts more like a
    theocracy than a democracy, and the only people who have any rights are Jewish. Palestinians
    are basically stateless, with no real voice to change their situation.

    But the UN has been condemning it since 1948, so how come? Where are the sanctions against Israel? Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship specifically with Israel? Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for visa-free entry? ;)

    If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is within the limits of the
    Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it my duty now to be
    together with Russia.
    The Right of Return. Any Jew around the world enjoys the right to live in Israel and to obtain
    Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return. No other country in the world has such a
    rule.

    Well, why not? Russia accepts anyone, along with the territory ;)

    The USA does not recognize dual citizenship. Except for those who are from Vatican City and
    Israel. Only an act of Congress can grant dual citizenship to others, such as Arnold
    Schwarzenegger, who got his dual citizenship (Austria and USA) by marrying a Kennedy.

    Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.

    Steven Segal managed to get dual citizenship by having Vladimir Putin wave his magic wand and
    nobody questioned anything.

    In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a simplified procedure.
    Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of charge.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to alexander koryagin on Thu Oct 13 00:28:16 2022
    I am sure you know it was not Russian troops.

    I am sure Russian troops took part in the attacks and supplied military equipment.

    We can see the same kind of foreign people in Ukraine fighting on Zelensky side,

    There are also many foreign fighters on the Russian side. That's not unusual.

    and nobody says that NATO participated in the conflict directly.
    Russian troops entered Ukraine in February 2022.

    That's because NATO is not part of this conflict.

    Russia did invade Ukraine Feb 24, 2022 with a military of roughly 180,000 troops, but they had boots on the ground in Ukraine before that in the eastern part of the country.

    Russia is a good liar. How can they be trusted now?

    Who has never lied - let him first cast a stone at me. ;-)

    I am speaking of the propaganda fueled nation of Russia, I am not calling you a liar. I think you are honest with us if not incorrect.

    Millions of Ukrainians (some 6.6 million) have fled the war, not
    Ukraine.

    Only note, they fled to Russia not to Ukraine.

    Of course. They fled the war and since Russia is making war in Ukraine they fled Ukraine.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 08:52:47 2022
    Oleg wrote (2022-10-12):

    Доброго времечка, BjФrn Felten.
    Вы писали 12.10.22 15:55:

    In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30
    years since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from
    Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a
    *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond
    of, inside as well as outside of Russia.

    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum with the results of 93% for the return of the status of an autonomous Soviet socialist republic as part of the union state, but instead received the formal status of autonomy within
    the Ukrainian SSR.

    So you think the annexation of Crimea by Russia was justified, because of that Referendum? What part of "autonomy" don't you understand?

    Btw:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars

    "After the annexation of Crimea by Russian Federation, Crimean Tatars are reportedly persecuted and discriminated by Russian authorities, including cases of torture, arbitrary detentions, forced disappearances by Russian security forces and courts."

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Thu Oct 13 10:18:45 2022
    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

    Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR? Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 09:27:14 2022
    Oleg wrote (2022-10-13):

    And it was by the right proper legal referendum of 1991 that the people
    of Crimea were deceived by Ukraine!

    So what does Russia have to do with it?

    Catalonia had an referendum too and independence was denied. Why didn't Catalonia become part of Russia?

    You really do NOT understand.

    You really do NOT understand.

    I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and
    without looking to the international community, but Russia cannot.

    What fucking referendum are you talking about? The fake ones or the one that doesn't invite Russia for occupation?

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Thu Oct 13 10:20:07 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 9:58:

    In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years since the *Ukrainian*
    people voted for independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against.
    In a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well as
    outside of Russia.
    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR.
    People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

    Thus, some individuals, for their own benefit, ignored the opinion of the entire population of the USSR and illegally ruined the country. As we now know - for the money and personal privileges of the United States.

    So don't you come here with your fucking Putinist propaganda; out here in the free world we
    have enough facts, past as well as present, to be able to expose all your lies and
    fairy-tales.
    Putin for you is as Carabas-Barabas from the Pinoccio tale. You as a child cannot see
    anything behind his beard.

    ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Thu Oct 13 10:22:59 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 12.10.22 6:08:

    Such an idiot idea can be born only in the brains of those who never saw reports of Donbass
    bloody siege and destruction.
    It was not a seige of Donbass. Russia has been in the Donbass for 8 years attacking Ukraine.
    I'm sure you understand that.

    In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was on the hook for whom?

    There was a mutual interest of both Europe and Russia, and only the US had no interest here. More precisely, their interest was to ruin all the fun for Russia and the EU. The calculation is simple - Russia was and remains an existential foe of the US, and the EU is a competitor, for whose market in the 21st century and the war broke out under the conventional name "Abduction of Europe". Is it symbolic that a monument of the same name has been standing on the square near the Kievsky railway station in Moscow for 15 years ;) At that time US had a negative trade balance with the EU, and Obama's very reasonable idea, which was later brilliantly implemented by Trump, was to raise the cost of raw materials for the EU, which would instantly affect the cost of its products, after which the products automatically become uncompetitive in the domestic American market, and if you replace cheap Russian "undemocratic" pipe gas with expensive American "democratic" LPG, then the US will have a double benefit.

    At the time of 2014, there was no NorthStream-2 at all. The capacities of the then available NS-1 (55 bcm/y), the Ukrainian GTS (142 bcm/y) and the Yamal-EU pipeline (33 bcm/y) were quite sufficient to fulfill all Gazprom's obligations to its European consumers. With only one correction - Poland and Ukraine impeded in every possible way the modernization of their GTS (Poland under the influence of American friends, and Ukraine, then with Yanukovych, bargaining with Russia, who would carry out this modernization and at whose expense). As a result, there were ideas of bypassing routes - South Stream and NS-2. But South Stream was buried through the efforts of Bulgaria that is under the US gun barrel. We are lucky that Erdogan popped up in time then and instead of the South Stream there appeared Turkish Stream with capacity of 32bcma, a half of which goes to Turkey, the other half to Southern Europe (Bulgaria is biting its lips, but it's too late). What was Putin to do when Ukraine suffered a coup d'tat in 2014? Fifty-one percent of the Russian budget was at stake!

    There was one small chance to keep Ukraine in the sphere of his influence by supporting Yanukovich, but Putin did not use it then, limiting himself to Crimea. To what extent this was justified was shown by subsequent events. There is an opinion that this was the Kremlin's fatal mistake. Indirectly, he acknowledged it by not repeating it in August 2020, when a similar threat emerged in Belarus. Then Putin supported Lukashenko, even in spite of his controversial actions the day before (with the detention of Wagner fighters), concentrating his power fist on the borders of Belarus. This was quite enough for Bat'ka to retain power in the country. The Belarusian security forces did not falter and did not betray their "mustachioed tyrant". The law enforcement agencies of Ukraine in 2014 were also ready to resist to the end; the only problem was that Yanukovych was not Lukashenko at all. He ran away, the scoundrel! It would have been possible to use him as a president-in-exile, but Putin did not take the risk. Because gas transit to the EU was at stake. And one can understand Putin.

    Hypothetically, Putin would have used the permission of the Russian Council of Federation to use troops beyond Russian borders and the request of fugitive President Yanukovych for help in restoring the constitutional order violated by the conspirators, and would have introduced troops into Ukraine. Even with the overwhelming support of the local population (except in the western regions everyone would have welcomed the Russian "tired battalion" with flowers) and minimal opposition from the "rebel" opposition (which would most likely have dispersed even before the Russian tanks arrived), what would be the reaction to all this in the West? By no stretch of the imagination, Putin would have been accused of suppressing democracy, of armed invasion, and of imposing sanctions on the transit of Russian gas and oil to Europe. And even Putin's last sympathizers in the EU could do nothing about it in the face of the obvious fact of "crushed Ukrainian democracy". They would have doomed themselves by closing the valve on the "aggressor's" pipe to Europe, even realizing that after that it would be a "pipe job" for them. As a result, Obama could write his name in the annals of American history - no one has ever managed to put both of America's enemies in such a beautiful, bloodless way for the US with a single blow! But Putin didn't give him that satisfaction - he avenged his revenge for Ukraine in Syria, after which the life of the overly tanned leader of the American pale-faced Comanches lost all colors, and he moved on to his favorite pastime of all American presidents - writing his memoirs under the title "Me and the Genius of Putin's Villainy".

    For all the hard feelings of the Russian and pro-Russian oriented Ukrainians toward Putin, Putin did not have much choice in the events of 8 years ago. He acted according to circumstances, wagering and minimizing the risks for Russia as number two. As regrettable as it is for me to admit, our sworn "friends and partners" acted as number one. There was a small chance to keep Ukraine in the orbit of Russian influence right at the time of the coup (December 2013-January 2014), but the Kremlin was indecisive, watching from a distance how everything would end, and Yanukovich was cowardly and politically shortsighted, giving in to the entreaties of Western observers and making a deal with the conspirators. You know how it ended for him. How it ended for Russia, too. The Kremlin and Putin in particular have drawn the appropriate conclusions. The main conclusion is as follows: you must not trust the West under any circumstances; they will deceive you, smile, deceive you once more, and then say that you simply misunderstand them.

    This is just a retrospective analysis of 2014. Our descendants will probably write about this year.
    And one more thing - everything the West calls the Russian special forces in Donbass belongs to the "pen" of the only _former_ strongman Girkin, known by the nickname Strelkov. Who, for personal reasons, disobeyed a direct order to leave Donbass. Russia did have a presence in the Donbass afterwards - but only in the form of humanitarian convoys. Look back, how often did the West pray for Putin? The almighty Putin, Figaro here, Figaro there - changing governments in the West, rigging free elections, all (almost absolutely) of the West's own misfortunes were assigned to Putin in advance. Convenient as hell! Well, since you yourself have elevated Putin to the rank of all-powerful... The weather in the West is also regulated by Putin, no doubt about it - General Heat has shot off, now wait for General Frost. And General Armageddon, who has been on duty for a couple of days, as well ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Oct 13 08:53:14 2022
    First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

    Frank De Winne was the commander of the ISS plus I worked for Dirk Frimout who was a Space Shuttle astronaut aboard Atlantis..

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 12:03:18 2022
    I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and
    without looking to the international community, but Russia cannot.

    Do not pull a Witt on us ....

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 12:09:50 2022
    In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe".
    We were not even supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for the EU's electricity and heat
    generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was
    unclear, who was on the hook for whom?

    Etc etc etc etc .....

    Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 13:51:29 2022
    Thus, some individuals, for their own benefit, ignored the opinion of
    the entire population of the USSR and illegally ruined the country.

    So the people of the USSR voted for keeping Ukraine? That doesn't sound like the people of Ukraine had anything to say about it.

    As we now know - for the money and personal privileges of the United States.

    LOL! *We* now know? What *we* are you talking about? What had the USA to gain? It was the USSR that had a lot to gain from keeping their bread basket for almost a century, Ukraine.

    We've already seen, on satellite photos, how Russia has stolen thousands of tons of Ukrainian wheat and shipped it to Syria and African countries. Maybe the people of Ukraine voted for this too?

    "Look friends, Uncle Putin comes bearing gifts to those that support our glorious empire! As long as we control Sevastopol and the Black Sea, we can keep stealing as much as you need, friends."


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 13 14:46:08 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 12:09:

    In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even
    supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for
    the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we
    were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was
    on the hook for whom?
    Etc etc etc etc ..... Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ...

    Translated for non-Russian speakers.
    And you basically don't care. As long as you're not touched. And we don't really care about you ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 13 14:48:21 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 12:03:

    I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and without looking to the
    international community, but Russia cannot.
    Do not pull a Witt on us ....

    Why not? Do not overplay, and do not hope. Any successful precedent can be repeated again.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 13 14:54:39 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 10:18:

    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR.
    People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?
    Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR? Yeah, that's a tough one...
    8-)

    So the West does not recognize any ;) only the West is always right, the rest of the world has no right to vote...

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Oli on Thu Oct 13 15:11:35 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Oli.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 9:27:

    And it was by the right proper legal referendum of 1991 that the people of Crimea were
    deceived by Ukraine!
    So what does Russia have to do with it?

    Accepted the rights and obligations of the USSR. For all former republics, including Ukraine. And paid the external public debt of the entire USSR. Only for this reason has all the rights of the USSR, including the right to the territories belonging and transferred to someone within the USSR.

    Catalonia had an referendum too and independence was denied. Why didn't Catalonia become part
    of Russia?

    This is the problem of Catalonia, not Russia. We did not annex Catalonia ;)

    You really do NOT understand.
    You really do NOT understand.

    And you'll never understand.

    I wonder why Israel can do the same thing without a referendum and without looking to the
    international community, but Russia cannot.
    What fucking referendum are you talking about? The fake ones or the one that doesn't invite
    Russia for occupation?

    One more time. You do not recognize the results of any referendums in the USSR and Russia. Then what do you care at all? Deal with the country of which you are a citizen.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Oli on Thu Oct 13 15:20:03 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Oli.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 8:52:

    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum with the results of 93% for the return of the status of an
    autonomous Soviet socialist republic as part of the union state, but instead received the
    formal status of autonomy within the Ukrainian SSR.
    So you think the annexation of Crimea by Russia was justified, because of that Referendum? What
    part of "autonomy" don't you understand?

    Don't pull the owl on the globe ;) The referendum was held twice with 93 and 97% of the votes in favor. The remaining 7 and 3% disagree, but that's what the vote is, decisive majority. I didn't even doubt the development of the Western way of thinking ;)

    Annexation - against the will of the population, secession - at the will of the population. But the West has never been interested in the will of the people, exclusively in its own interests. For the West, it is ideal when there is no population at all ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Thu Oct 13 15:21:32 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 1:55:

    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum
    What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

    Both are proper. But the first one was ignored by Ukraine.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 13 15:24:51 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 12:09:

    In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even
    supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for
    the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we
    were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was
    on the hook for whom?
    Etc etc etc etc ..... Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ... \%/@rd --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 13 15:25:26 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 12:09:

    In 2014, in the words of Obama, "Russia was the gas station of Europe". We were not even
    supplying gasoline or diesel fuel, but raw materials for production (crude oil) and gas for
    the EU's electricity and heat generation facilities. EU was 36% dependent on them, and we
    were 51% dependent on revenues from these exports. In this situation it was unclear, who was
    on the hook for whom?
    Etc etc etc etc ..... Nice cut and paste from somewhere else ...

    Russians say about such people "I did not master it." So you haven't read it. Didn't study it. But you condemn. That's all of you.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 18:06:47 2022
    the rest of the world has no right to vote...

    Jeezzz. Your brains are washed more heavily than we thought. No, in the civilized world you don't get to vote in other countries than the one where you have citizenship. DUH!

    I guess that next you will demand that Russian people must be allowed to vote in the POTUS elections?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Bj÷rn Felten on Thu Oct 13 18:33:14 2022
    Hello Björn,

    a *proper* referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond
    of, inside as well as
    outside of Russia.

    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum

    What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum


    On 26 December 1991 the Soviet Union ceased to exist.
    So the referendum didn't really matter.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 19:49:18 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Thursday October 13 2022 15:20, you wrote to Oli:

    Don't pull the owl on the globe ;) The referendum was held twice with
    93 and 97% of the votes in favor. The remaining 7 and 3% disagree, but

    It wasn't a referendum - it was a circus with putin's clowns talking like new nazis.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 19:51:02 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Thursday October 13 2022 14:54, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people
    wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the
    USSR. Which referendum is more honest?
    Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR?
    Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)

    So the West does not recognize any ;) only the West is always right,
    the rest of the world has no right to vote...

    Please stop posting fake information.
    Referendum in 1991 was about "new reformed USSR", not about existing USSR.
    But since no one cared to reform it - it died.

    No one voted for "preserving existing USSR".

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Thu Oct 13 22:12:26 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 13:51:

    Thus, some individuals, for their own benefit, ignored the opinion of the entire population
    of the USSR and illegally ruined the country.
    So the people of the USSR voted for keeping Ukraine? That doesn't sound like the people of
    Ukraine had anything to say about it.

    People of USSR voted for keeping USSR. Ignored by Kravchuk (Ukraine), Eltsin (Russia), Shushkevitch (Byelorussia).
    People of Crimea voted for autonomy. Ignored by Ukraine.

    Sounds like.. it was these citizens who carried out the coup in the USSR. Kravchuk, by the way, recognized this fact 20 years later.
    So legally, there is no Ukraine. And Russia and 13 other republics do not exist either, as separate independent states. That's how we live...
    And there is no USSR either. Because on the day of the "collapse" of the Union, the United States was extremely welcomed in accordance with their national interests.
    So forget about Russia and Ukraine ;)

    As we now know - for the money and personal privileges of the United States.
    LOL! *We* now know? What *we* are you talking about? What had the USA to gain? It was the
    USSR that had a lot to gain from keeping their bread basket for almost a century, Ukraine.

    We - is people of USSR.
    The USA does not tolerate competition. Especially with a strong opponent. 15 weak countries in a state of chaos is much more profitable than one in perfect order.
    Since its foundation, the USSR has lived under the sanctions of the West. The whole century. Sanctions have never been lifted at all, so we are used to it ;)
    What kind of Ukraine are we talking about? A small republic became part of the USSR, in which the Polish word "Ukrainian" was present? The Kiev region is everything that Ukraine was before Lenin, whose monuments they destroy with such zeal.

    We've already seen, on satellite photos, how Russia has stolen thousands of tons of
    Ukrainian wheat and shipped it to Syria and African countries. Maybe the people of Ukraine
    voted for this too?
    Accused? Get a cookie from Uncle Sam.
    Provide evidence. We also see a lot of things (right now). Africa has nothing to eat. We can not feed. If anything, the refugees will go to you, not to us... This is a dilemma for the West, not for Africa.

    "Look friends, Uncle Putin comes bearing gifts to those that support our glorious empire! As
    long as we control Sevastopol and the Black Sea, we can keep stealing as much as you need,
    friends."

    Export does not equal theft. Whose Kherson? ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Thu Oct 13 22:22:29 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 18:06:

    the rest of the world has no right to vote...
    Jeezzz. Your brains are washed more heavily than we thought. No, in the civilized world you
    don't get to vote in other countries than the one where you have citizenship. DUH!

    Look for a log in your brain. Propaganda has scored hard into the cognitive domain, and there is no end in sight.

    I can still understand that you basically don't understand Russian in white, but not to understand English... Do not confuse warm with soft.
    What language will you understand? I can offer Chinese, Arabic, Zulu..


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 21:56:28 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    [..]

    You understand that NATO and no one else will do this almost never. So why the fuck would NATO want to do this with Ukraine? Yes, because it is convenient to fight with someone else's hands and pour someone else's blood. And Putin will definitely fuck around Britain and the USA, if anything. It's about time.

    The original reason for the creation of NATO was defensive - for the containment of Germany. Ditto for the creation of the Warsaw Pact.
    No country wanted a return of Nazi Germany, and steps were taken to
    prevent that from happening.

    However, times have changed. There is no more Warsaw Pact, and NATO
    has no Nazi Germany to worry about. So what is the purpose of NATO?
    Is it's purpose still defensive, as it claims? Or has it become
    something else entirely?

    Those are questions that should be asked. But nobody seems willing
    to do so. Not honestly.

    We all know what Napoleon Bonaparte did.
    We all know what Adolf Hitler did.
    Only frigid weather stopped France and Germany
    from achieving their goals of conquest.

    Why should anybody believe NATO's claim of being for defensive
    purposes only? If an organization is going to arm a player, isn't
    the organization itself also a player?

    Finland and Sweden have both formally applied for membership in NATO.
    What happens if either are attacked before membership is granted?
    There will be war, with allies coming to their aid and assistance.

    So does it really matter if Ukraine is, or is not, a member of NATO?

    Who is Russia really at war with?

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 21:56:34 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    I described the situation theoretically, to compare Russians in
    Ukraine and Jews in Palestine
    if they appeared in a similar situation. Both living next to their
    protectors.
    The Arabs and the Jews have been fighting each other since time
    immemorial. Ukrainians and
    Russians not so much. Jimmy Carter brought Menachim Begin and Anwas
    Sadat together. They even
    made peace with each other, both winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

    A world divided by a 10-meter wall is so-so peaceful. All these Nobel prizes
    are disconnected from reality.

    Would the world be a better place without the United Nations?
    The world thought it had the answer to putting an end to war with
    the creation of the League of Nations. We all know how that worked
    out. And now the world thinks it has the answer to war with its
    creation of the United Nations. And yet war continues, unabated,
    in various parts of the world. So what is the answer? What is
    the answer for World Peace? Can it be attained? Is it even
    possible?

    Like HAL 9000. we can dream.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If we don't get it / Shut it down!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 21:56:48 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    [..]

    In accordance with international law, the status of erusalem is that
    of a city which is
    illegally occupied by Israel in violaion of the inalienable right of
    soverignty of the people
    of Palestine.

    Okay, where are the 8 packages of sanctions from the United States and the European Union against Israel???

    Mail service has been a bit slow these days ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    As good as it looks

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Thu Oct 13 21:56:54 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Did Putin recognize it? Never heard of it.
    Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I know of.
    With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia, that would make
    sense, as immigration issues would be of importance to both
    countries.

    Travelling is not recognition in such issues.

    It is more than just about immigration, but also the pursuit
    of peace in the region. There have been four wars since the end
    of WWII, and no peace has yet been found. Despite efforts by
    the US, Europe, Russia, and others to bring all sides together.

    Imagine the benefits to Russia, the USA, Europe, and to all the
    countries of the Middle East if real peace could be found.

    A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Everybody Loves Our Buns

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 21:57:00 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    [..]

    Which Jerusalem exactly does the UN have in mind? ;)
    Israel has disregarded international law for decades. No surprise there.
    It acts more like a
    theocracy than a democracy, and the only people who have any rights are
    Jewish. Palestinians
    are basically stateless, with no real voice to change their situation.

    But the UN has been condemning it since 1948, so how come?

    Under the 1947 UN Partition Plan, which both the US and Russia
    voted in favor, was meant to divide historical Palestine between
    Jewish and Arab States, with Jerusalem being granted special
    status and placed under international sovereignty and control.

    Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs rejected the deal.

    Despite worldwide condemnation, Israel continues to act as an
    apartheid state rather than a respectable member of the international community. Especially in regards to the city of Jerusalem, which is
    illegally occupied by Israel in violation of the inalienable right
    of sovereigny of the people of Palestine.

    Where are the sanctions against Israel?

    The General Assembly of the United Nations has been condemning
    their actions for decades. But the Security Council keeps vetoing
    what the international community wants.

    Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship specifically
    with Israel?

    And Vatican City. Let's not forget about all those holy priests
    and nuns who celebrate by being celibate.

    Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for visa-free entry? ;)

    Apparently there is no need for any Jew to have a visa.

    If anything, I can go to Jerusalem to live at any time ;) and it is
    within the limits of the
    Old City. Some time ago I was living in two countries. But I consider it
    my duty now to be
    together with Russia.
    The Right of Return. Any Jew around the world enjoys the right to live in
    Israel and to obtain
    Israeli citizenship under Israel's Law of Return. No other country in the
    world has such a
    rule.

    Well, why not? Russia accepts anyone, along with the territory ;)

    My grandmother was from Kaliningrad. Does that mean I have a Right
    to Return, and get free land?

    The USA does not recognize dual citizenship. Except for those who are
    from Vatican City and
    Israel. Only an act of Congress can grant dual citizenship to others,
    such as Arnold
    Schwarzenegger, who got his dual citizenship (Austria and USA) by
    marrying a Kennedy.

    Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.

    Everybody gives a damn about the Kennedys.
    Especially the Dead Kennedys.

    Steven Segal managed to get dual citizenship by having Vladimir Putin
    wave his magic wand and
    nobody questioned anything.

    In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a simplified procedure. Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of charge.

    Siberia is warming up, with Chinese making it their new home ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Love! Not hate! Makes America great!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Thu Oct 13 21:57:07 2022
    Hello Ward,

    First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

    Frank De Winne was the commander of the ISS plus I worked for Dirk Frimout who was a Space Shuttle astronaut aboard Atlantis..

    Ward Dossche. Commander of Artemis' maiden voyage ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Pork: the other white meat

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Thu Oct 13 21:57:17 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    [..]

    In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be exactly 30 years
    since the *Ukrainian* people voted for independence from Russia,
    with an overwhelming 96.3% for and 3.7% against. In a *proper*
    referendum, nothing like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside
    as well as outside of Russia.

    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?

    On 26 December 1991.
    A day that will live in infamy.
    The Soviet Union votes itself out of existence.
    The only vote that really mattered, and counted.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Pay your taxes!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Oct 13 22:27:31 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 18:33:

    of, inside as well as
    outside of Russia.
    In 1991, Crimea held a referendum
    What part of *proper* referendum, and so on, did you not understand?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum On 26 December 1991 the
    Soviet Union ceased to exist. So the referendum didn't really matter.

    Legally, this statement is null and void. And it was decided in a hurry based on the results of the referendum.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 13 22:24:30 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Thursday October 13 2022 22:12, you wrote to Björn Felten:

    People of USSR voted for keeping USSR. Ignored by Kravchuk (Ukraine),

    They voted for keeping "reformed USSR". But no one ws going to reform it.
    So they voted for some dream, for Utopia.

    live... And there is no USSR either. Because on the day of the
    "collapse" of the Union, the United States was extremely welcomed in accordance with their national interests. So forget about Russia and Ukraine ;)

    USA (or just their president) were very upset when USSR collapsed, btw.
    It was a nightmare for them - 15 countries with nuclear weapons.

    profitable than one in perfect order. Since its foundation, the USSR
    has lived under the sanctions of the West. The whole century.

    And USSR became so weak that even Fidonet was hi-tech ;) And soviet modems were just expensive crap.
    We were in 70s in late 80s.



    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Bj÷rn Felten on Thu Oct 13 22:13:10 2022
    I guess that next you will demand that Russian people must be allowed
    to vote in the POTUS elections?

    Well, Russians facilitated the election of Trump ...

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Oct 13 22:22:52 2022
    First Belgian in space, following in Dave Bowman's footsteps.

    Frank De Winne was the commander of the ISS plus I worked for Dirk
    Frimout
    who was a Space Shuttle astronaut aboard Atlantis..

    Ward Dossche. Commander of Artemis' maiden voyage ...

    Rather, skipper of the "Dawn Treader"

    Plus, there are physical limitations for people that fall into space ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 01:10:58 2022
    Export does not equal theft.

    Amazing. So in just a half dozen or so generations, Russia has genetically gotten rid of any trace of morality?

    In the rest of the world, the free (in every respect) world, taking something that does not belong to you is immoral, criminal and is punishable. It *is* called theft.

    But to you, in this case, since you "export" the stolen goods, it's absolutely OK? Fascinating. I think there's an opportunity for some serious academic articles about this coming, maybe even Nobel Prize winning stuff.

    Just one question, not really related to the thieving Russian thugs: With all that land that Russia already has, why waste so much of what little resources you have, on conquering a few small countries that only want democracy out of the grips from the neo-Stalinist Putinism? And how come so many Russians actually have accepted this?

    After all, the era of a comfy sofa, a bottle of vodka and an old TV set brimming with happy news of the Russian Army's Victorious battles is now gone forever. Those men that refused to accept that *they* could be going to war, now tries to leave their glorious Putinist country by the hundreds of thousands.

    Fucking cowards! Learn from what happened when Ukraine welcomed the Russian that emigrated. Let the borders be closed to them all.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Bj÷rn Felten on Fri Oct 14 02:15:42 2022
    Hello, Bj÷rn!

    Friday October 14 2022 01:10, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

    Amazing. So in just a half dozen or so generations, Russia has genetically gotten rid of any trace of morality?

    It's not Russia, we still have a lot of people who are angry very much because they don't support Putin's wars, but they are very scared.
    Putin is not Russia and even Oleg is not Russia ;)

    Just one question, not really related to the thieving Russian
    thugs: With all that land that Russia already has, why waste so much
    of what little resources you have, on conquering a few small countries that only want democracy out of the grips from the neo-Stalinist
    Putinism? And how come so many Russians actually have accepted this?

    Many Russians are in fact brainwashed and they are very unhappy because they are poor. And they are trying to blame West for their problems.
    I still think that only about ~40% are pro war. Most of them are old guys, who are not going to join the army.

    For them this war is just a football match, when you can just sit on your sofa, drink beer and watch TV. Like Oleg is doing.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 03:16:58 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Thursday October 13 2022 22:22, you wrote to Bj÷rn Felten:

    I can still understand that you basically don't understand Russian in white, but not to understand English... Do not confuse warm with soft. What language will you understand? I can offer Chinese, Arabic, Zulu..

    Oleg, your English is not perfect, may be your Arabic is better? My Arabic is not fluent, but do you want to use fusha or some dialect?

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 05:08:53 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 21:57:

    Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs rejected the deal.

    Because it was necessary to ask the Palestinians in advance.
    The people lived, lived - and then some strange UN appears after them with heavily armed Jews and reports that now the Palestinians are walking through the desert, and Jews will live here. We all decided in a boyish way, here you, here they, ran quickly to the corners and do not interfere with the work of very busy people.

    Despite worldwide condemnation, Israel continues to act as an apartheid state rather than a
    respectable member of the international community. Especially in regards to the city of
    Jerusalem, which is illegally occupied by Israel in violation of the inalienable right of
    sovereigny of the people of Palestine.

    Well, he swallowed the whole world. Swallow Ukraine too.

    Where are the sanctions against Israel?
    The General Assembly of the United Nations has been condemning their actions for decades. But
    the Security Council keeps vetoing what the international community wants.

    Double standards. Spit on the UN - where are the sanctions of the civilized West?

    Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship specifically with Israel?
    And Vatican City. Let's not forget about all those holy priests and nuns who celebrate by
    being celibate.

    The stoned Vatican wasn't enough yet.

    Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for visa-free entry? ;)
    Apparently there is no need for any Jew to have a visa.

    Comfortable. And Russian tank - visa;)

    My grandmother was from Kaliningrad. Does that mean I have a Right to Return, and get free
    land?

    On general grounds, yes. Just like Segal.

    Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.
    Everybody gives a damn about the Kennedys. Especially the Dead Kennedys.

    Similarly, from the same bell tower.

    In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a simplified procedure.
    Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of charge.
    Siberia is warming up, with Chinese making it their new home ...

    Dreams are dreams...

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 05:11:15 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 21:56:

    Okay, where are the 8 packages of sanctions from the United States and the European Union
    against Israel???
    Mail service has been a bit slow these days ...

    Did it reach Russia faster by telegraph via swift, do you think? The bell tower is here...

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 05:31:04 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 21:56:

    A world divided by a 10-meter wall is so-so peaceful. All these Nobel prizes are disconnected
    from reality.
    Would the world be a better place without the United Nations? The world thought it had the
    answer to putting an end to war with the creation of the League of Nations. We all know how
    that worked out. And now the world thinks it has the answer to war with its creation of the
    United Nations. And yet war continues, unabated, in various parts of the world. So what is the
    answer? What is the answer for World Peace? Can it be attained? Is it even possible?

    The UN did not prevent the civilized West from bombing Yugoslavia, staging a series of power coups and testing biological weapons over the whole world.
    NATO did not prevent NATO from spreading to the very borders of Russia, arranging biological and nuclear warehouses under the balcony of Russia, smiling in the eyes, holding a deceptive gesture behind his back and poking a stick with a nail in the back of the Russians.
    The West has raised a cocaine monkey with a grenade and is now surprised at the prospect of dying in a nuclear fire? The monkey has been throwing radioactive gifts in the direction of Donbass for a week, what kind of reaction are you waiting for a sleeping bear?

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 05:46:33 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 21:56:

    The original reason for the creation of NATO was defensive - for the containment of Germany.
    Ditto for the creation of the Warsaw Pact. No country wanted a return of Nazi Germany, and
    steps were taken to prevent that from happening.

    Yeah, and instead of Germany, the West chose Ukraine to grow this monster. Comfortable.

    However, times have changed. There is no more Warsaw Pact, and NATO has no Nazi Germany to
    worry about. So what is the purpose of NATO? Is it's purpose still defensive, as it claims? Or
    has it become something else entirely?

    If, in its rhetoric, NATO did not deal with constant threats towards Russia.. But Nato needs an enemy.

    We all know what Napoleon Bonaparte did. We all know what Adolf Hitler did. Only frigid
    weather stopped France and Germany from achieving their goals of conquest.

    Russia has learned to negotiate with the weather ;)

    Why should anybody believe NATO's claim of being for defensive purposes only? If an
    organization is going to arm a player, isn't the organization itself also a player? Finland
    and Sweden have both formally applied for membership in NATO. What happens if either are
    attacked before membership is granted? There will be war, with allies coming to their aid and
    assistance. So does it really matter if Ukraine is, or is not, a member of NATO?

    Why did the US not like having Russian missiles in Cuba? Just defense, what's so special about that? Khrushchev should have put the squeeze on it in 1962 after all. At the same time, we would have seen how it ended. It's hard to feel like a victim, isn't it?

    Who is Russia really at war with?

    With the West, isn't it obvious? Soviet weapons have already been destroyed, Ukrainian speech from the trenches is heard less and less.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Bj?rn Felten on Fri Oct 14 08:20:35 2022
    Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
    I read your message from 13.10.2022 11:18

    ak>> Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did
    ak>> people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also
    ak>> supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?
    BF> Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR?
    BF> Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)

    It was the time of Gorbachev - the most free time ever for Russia and
    its former republics. There was no pressure on people. If they wanted to gather in the streets they did it. If they wanted to vote for Yeltsin
    they did it, and there was no rigging.
    Rigging votes is a tactic of those who get and keep the power by force.
    Most people of the USSR were always proud of it.

    Although another way can be used -- you just promise cunningly peace and prosperity to people, and you are a good movie actor, and they had
    already seen the movie with him as a good president. And people vote as
    you wish.

    Bye, Bj?rn!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 08:32:45 2022
    Hi, Oleg Nazaroff!
    I read your message from 13.10.2022 15:20

    O>> So you think the annexation of Crimea by Russia was
    O>> justified, because of that Referendum? What part of
    O>> "autonomy" don't you understand?
    ON> Don't pull the owl on the globe ;) The referendum was held
    ON> twice with 93 and 97% of the votes in favor. The remaining 7
    ON> and 3% disagree, but that's what the vote is, decisive
    ON> majority. I didn't even doubt the development of the Western way of
    ON> thinking ;) Annexation - against the will of the population, secession
    ON> - at the will of the population. But the West has never been
    interested
    ON> in the will of the people, exclusively in its own interests. For the
    ON> West, it is ideal when there is no population at all ;)

    Ukraine will refuse to accept any referendum on this issue, even under
    the UN observance. But it is situation like in a poor family -- at some
    point it is impossible to preserve the family, and the only way out is a divorce. Ukraine has done too many ugly things to millions of Russians
    living there.
    The desire to make them live together is similar to making Chroats and
    Serbs live peacefully in one country. Too late, too much blood had been
    spilt. ;-<

    Bye, Oleg!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Fri Oct 14 08:36:48 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 13.10.2022 19:51

    ak>>>> Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked
    ak>>>> did people wish to preserve the USSR. People of
    ak>>>> Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum
    ak>>>> is more honest?
    BF>>> Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by
    BF>>> the USSR? Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)
    ON>> So the West does not recognize any ;) only the West is
    ON>> always right, the rest of the world has no right to vote...
    DP> Please stop posting fake information.
    DP> Referendum in 1991 was about "new reformed USSR", not about
    DP> existing USSR. But since no one cared to reform it - it died.
    DP> No one voted for "preserving existing USSR".

    Hi! Where have you been? New CIA courses in Poland or you were let out
    from a Russian detention camp? ;-)

    PS: it was a joke.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 08:51:38 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 13.10.2022 22:56

    ak>>>> Did Putin recognize it? Never heard of it.
    LL>>> Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I
    LL>>> know of. With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia,
    LL>>> that would make sense, as immigration issues would be
    LL>>> of importance to both countries.
    ak>> Travelling is not recognition in such issues.
    LL> It is more than just about immigration, but also the pursuit
    LL> of peace in the region. There have been four wars since the end
    LL> of WWII, and no peace has yet been found. Despite efforts by
    LL> ??the US, Europe, Russia, and others to bring all sides
    LL> together. Imagine the benefits to Russia, the USA, Europe, and
    LL> to all the countries of the Middle East if real peace could be
    LL> found. A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.

    But one thing is clear - they must live separately. The main difference
    from the situation with Ukraine - Palestinians really treat Israeli as occupants. In difference from the Donbass situation where local
    populations is considered as Russian collaborators. ;-)

    A way out:
    Probably, IMHO, after the divorce the world should spend a lot of money
    to make the Arab Palestine as much prosperous so that they will forget
    about their the desire to fight with Israel.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 08:52:48 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 13.10.2022 22:57

    BF>>> In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be
    BF>>> exactly 30 years since the*Ukrainian* people voted for
    BF>>> independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3%
    BF>>> for and 3.7% against. In a*proper* referendum, nothing
    BF>>> like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well
    BF>>> as outside of Russia.
    ak>> Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did
    ak>> people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also
    ak>> supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?
    LL> On 26 December 1991.
    LL> A day that will live in infamy.
    LL> The Soviet Union votes itself out of existence.
    LL> The only vote that really mattered, and counted.

    Everybody counts what he likes. ;-)

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 11:43:54 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 21:56:

    A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.

    The Israelis will not go to this until the last Palestinian. And the Palestinians will not go either - they have physically nowhere to retreat.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Fri Oct 14 11:49:14 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 21:57:

    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did people wish to preserve the USSR.
    People of Ukraine also supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?
    On 26 December 1991. A day that will live in infamy. The Soviet Union votes itself out of
    existence. The only vote that really mattered, and counted.

    A private contract that does not comply with any constitution is legally null and void. The people of all the republics of the USSR voted for preservation. The opinion of the people (the only power!) rudely ignored and staged a power coup.

    It suits the West exactly and _exclusively_ this option. Because the West is a coward and does not need strong opponents.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 14 11:50:30 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 13.10.22 22:13:

    I guess that next you will demand that Russian people must be allowed to vote in the POTUS
    elections?
    Well, Russians facilitated the election of Trump ...

    The West blames any failures on the machinations of enemies. This is an axiom.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 14 12:01:44 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 14.10.22 8:51:

    A way out: Probably, IMHO, after the divorce the world should spend a lot of money to make
    the Arab Palestine as much prosperous so that they will forget about their the desire to
    fight with Israel.

    To do this, Israel needs to give at least half of the territory with the border parallel to the equator. For all the fertile lands of Palestine have been forcibly seized by Israel.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 11:27:08 2022
    Well, Russians facilitated the election of Trump ...

    The West blames any failures on the machinations of enemies. This is an axiom.

    The existence of the troll-factory in St.Petersburg is also an axiom.

    During my military-service there was always another axiom ... the enemy was always coded-red and came from the east. So one day I was in charge of the red-unit and we were supposed to attack from the east so that the higher-ups could demonstrate how to mount a successful defence against attacks from the east ... we circumvented the position we were supposed to attack and came from the west. The commanding officer was furious as the colonel there saw the defence was useless, we were told we did not attack as agreed upon which I said "With all respect sir, we are the enemy and we do not make plans with you... you just lost the war".

    Another axiom, it was so easy with our redios to break into East-German and Soviet communication networks ... everything was sent uncoded ... too easy.

    Have a good week-end,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 14 13:12:30 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Friday October 14 2022 08:36, you wrote to me:

    Please stop posting fake information.
    Referendum in 1991 was about "new reformed USSR", not about
    existing USSR. But since no one cared to reform it - it died.
    No one voted for "preserving existing USSR".

    Hi! Where have you been? New CIA courses in Poland or you were let out
    from a Russian detention camp? ;-)

    I was drinking wine with my european friends for Putin's death :)

    PS: it was a joke.

    BTW, are going to war? :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 13:38:42 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Friday October 14 2022 05:46, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    Yeah, and instead of Germany, the West chose Ukraine to grow this
    monster. Comfortable.

    Russia created Ukranian nation. By killing Ukranians in mass.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 13:40:26 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Friday October 14 2022 05:31, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    The UN did not prevent the civilized West from bombing Yugoslavia,

    NATO stopped war in Yugoslavia in 90s, Balkans now is a very peacefull place. Visited Croatia this year, very nice place ;)

    staging a series of power coups and testing biological weapons over
    the whole world. NATO did not prevent NATO from spreading to the very

    Biological weapons? Is it some stupid joke?

    the Russians. The West has raised a cocaine monkey with a grenade and

    Just silly Putin's propaganda, Zelensky is much better president than Putin.

    is now surprised at the prospect of dying in a nuclear fire? The
    monkey has been throwing radioactive gifts in the direction of Donbass
    for a week, what kind of reaction are you waiting for a sleeping bear?

    Stupid Russian soldiers were digging nuclear soil near Chernobil to hide from Ukranian artillery ;)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 14 13:47:34 2022
    Hello, alexander!

    Friday October 14 2022 08:20, you wrote to Bj?rn Felten:

    Let me see now. An honest referendum organized by the USSR?
    Yeah, that's a tough one... 8-)

    It was the time of Gorbachev - the most free time ever for Russia and
    its former republics. There was no pressure on people. If they wanted

    Actually we had several wars in USSR at this time and many republics never had any referendum (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova, Armenia, Georgia).
    And the question was:

    ----
    Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?
    ----

    It was not a question about preserving the existing country. It was a question about creating some Utopia.


    Best regards,
    dp.

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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 13:52:48 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Friday October 14 2022 11:49, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    legally null and void. The people of all the republics of the USSR
    voted for preservation. The opinion of the people (the only power!)
    rudely ignored and staged a power coup.

    No, this this a false description of our history. People of several republics (some of them never had any referendum) voted for some Utopian dream, for renewed and reformed USSR. Which never existed.

    Too bad I have to give history lessons to Russians.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 14 14:30:50 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 14.10.22 11:27:

    Well, Russians facilitated the election of Trump ... The West blames any failures on the
    machinations of enemies. This is an axiom.
    The existence of the troll-factory in St.Petersburg is also an axiom.

    Fake information about a fake office that deals with fakes. Everything is fine in this! ;)

    During my military-service there was always another axiom ... the enemy was always coded-red
    and came from the east. So one day I was in charge of the red-unit and we were supposed to
    attack from the east so that the higher-ups could demonstrate how to mount a successful
    defence against attacks from the east ... we circumvented the position we were supposed to
    attack and came from the west. The commanding officer was furious as the colonel there saw the
    defence was useless, we were told we did not attack as agreed upon which I said "With all
    respect sir, we are the enemy and we do not make plans with you... you just lost the war".

    Were they punished later or praised? ;)

    Another axiom, it was so easy with our redios to break into East-German and Soviet
    communication networks ... everything was sent uncoded ... too easy.

    I didn't even have a thought why is it so easy? ;)
    I have a radio with adaptive coding, simultaneously transmits two signals, encoded with the necessary information and open with unnecessary ;) it's funny to watch the actions of the enemy who intercepted the signal ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 14:32:28 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Friday October 14 2022 14:30, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    The existence of the troll-factory in St.Petersburg is also an
    axiom.

    Fake information about a fake office that deals with fakes. Everything
    is fine in this! ;)

    I personally know guy from such company (but in Moscow), they are getting paid by our mayor's office ;)

    Another axiom, it was so easy with our redios to break into
    East-German and Soviet communication networks ... everything was
    sent uncoded ... too easy.

    I didn't even have a thought why is it so easy? ;)
    I have a radio with adaptive coding, simultaneously transmits two
    signals, encoded with the necessary information and open with
    unnecessary ;) it's funny to watch the actions of the enemy who intercepted the signal ;)

    Too bad (or good) that Russian forces in Ukraine don't have advanced radios, they have soviet junk or cheap chinese Baofengs.
    Most of the money our Ministry of Defence spent on advanced radio design were stolen ;)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 15:53:46 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Friday October 14 2022 05:08, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs rejected the deal.

    Because it was necessary to ask the Palestinians in advance.

    But it was land of Ottoman Empire where Turks were treating local communities with zero respect.
    They never asked "palestinians" about anything.

    Arabs got their own countries only because Antanta decided so. The price was - Israel.

    Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for
    visa-free entry? ;)
    Apparently there is no need for any Jew to have a visa.

    Comfortable. And Russian tank - visa;)

    Russian tank now - is a coffin, mostly.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 14 16:36:22 2022
    Were they punished later or praised? ;)

    Nothing of the kind ... it was a Friday in winter and we all went away.

    Military professionals are just a way to keep unemployment figures low.

    Another axiom, it was so easy with our redios to break into
    East-German and Soviet
    communication networks ... everything was sent uncoded ... too easy.

    I didn't even have a thought why is it so easy? ;)
    I have a radio with adaptive coding, simultaneously transmits two
    signals, encoded with the necessary information and open with unnecessary ;) it's funny to watch the actions of the enemy who intercepted the
    signal ;)

    This was 1974 ... Now NATO-forces have advanced electronics. Russian forces still use the same khrap.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 14 18:10:44 2022
    Hello, Ward!

    Friday October 14 2022 16:36, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

    I didn't even have a thought why is it so easy? ;)
    I have a radio with adaptive coding, simultaneously transmits two
    signals, encoded with the necessary information and open with
    unnecessary ;) it's funny to watch the actions of the enemy who
    intercepted the signal ;)

    This was 1974 ... Now NATO-forces have advanced electronics. Russian forces still use the same khrap.

    I talked to guy from Voentelecom company about their new advanced Russian military radio equipment about 8 years ago. The name is "Azart R-187P1".
    Now he is out of Russia and his boss got 4 years jail time for stealing money during this project.
    They purchased cheap chinese devices and added some locally made encryption modules.
    Everyone knows that they are unreliable crap. Corruption is a part of our military..
    Former army general announced about week ago that 1,5 million uniforms for new conscripts were stolen! Amazing things are happening..

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 14 19:03:05 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 14.10.22 16:36:

    Were they punished later or praised? ;)
    Nothing of the kind ... it was a Friday in winter and we all went away.

    But the main one yelled to his heart's content;)

    Military professionals are just a way to keep unemployment figures low.

    That is, they are waiting for the Reds from the east? ;)

    This was 1974 ... Now NATO-forces have advanced electronics. Russian forces still use the same
    khrap.

    Not all of them. We listen to the Yankees perfectly ;) and not everything can be intercepted from our side ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Sat Oct 15 11:41:15 2022
    Dmitry,

    Former army general announced about week ago that 1,5 million uniforms
    for new conscripts were stolen! Amazing things are happening..

    Hmmmm ... what is one supposed to do with a stolen uniform ?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 15 13:12:32 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ward!

    Saturday October 15 2022 11:41, you wrote to me:

    Former army general announced about week ago that 1,5 million
    uniforms for new conscripts were stolen! Amazing things are
    happening..

    Hmmmm ... what is one supposed to do with a stolen uniform ?

    Sell it to hunters/fishermen/anyone.
    Some people like military clothes.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ralf Wissing@2:240/8001 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 15 17:59:07 2022
    Hi,

    Am 15 Oct 2022 sagte Ward Dossche folgendes...
    Hmmmm ... what is one supposed to do with a stolen uniform ?

    if i can project the thing i was told from my grandparents from their time during WWII in germany (and my time working for a used clothes dealer) i would suggest to look into the value of the fabric itself: ONE uniform maybe not worth much, >1000 on the other hand...

    Greetings

    Ralf

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    * Origin: BlackICE BBS (BlackICE.BBSindex.com:23) (2:240/8001)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:01:05 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    On 26 December 1991 the Soviet Union ceased to exist. So the referendum didn't really matter.

    Legally, this statement is null and void.

    The vote taken by the USSR to dissolve itself was the last
    official act of its existence.

    And it was decided in a hurry based on the results of the referendum.

    Yes, it was unanimous.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:01:10 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs rejected the deal.

    Because it was necessary to ask the Palestinians in advance.

    The Jews knew well in advance, as Jewish fighters had been training
    in Britain for six months before the vote took place.

    The people lived, lived - and then some strange UN appears after them with heavily armed Jews and reports that now the Palestinians are walking through the desert, and Jews will live here.

    The Jewish population wanted all the land for themselves, and took
    what they could by force. Not just the land granted to them by the UN,
    but also land granted to Palestinian Arabs.

    We all decided in a boyish way, here you, here they, ran quickly to the corners and do not interfere with the work of very busy people.

    Who came to the rescue of Palestinian Arabs who were attacked
    by Jewish Palestinians after the 1947 UN Partition of Palestine?

    Despite worldwide condemnation, Israel continues to act as an
    apartheid state rather than a
    respectable member of the international community. Especially in
    regards to the city of
    Jerusalem, which is illegally occupied by Israel in violation of the
    inalienable right of
    sovereigny of the people of Palestine.

    Well, he swallowed the whole world. Swallow Ukraine too.

    He who has the gold has no right to rule the world.
    Especially when that gold has been attained by theft.

    Hitler told Chamberlain to give him Czecholslovakia.
    Chamberlain was happy to oblige.

    Hitler told Stalin to give him Poland.
    Stalin told Hitler "Let's split the pot."

    We all know who benefits from appeasement.

    Where are the sanctions against Israel?
    The General Assembly of the United Nations has been condemning their
    actions for decades. But
    the Security Council keeps vetoing what the international community
    wants.

    Double standards. Spit on the UN - where are the sanctions of the civilized
    West?

    Who sez the West is civilized? Who sez any part of the world is
    civilized? Certainly not me ...

    Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship
    specifically with Israel?
    And Vatican City. Let's not forget about all those holy priests and
    nuns who celebrate by
    being celibate.

    The stoned Vatican wasn't enough yet.

    Not all pedophiles are stoned. Some are fully sober.

    Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for
    visa-free entry? ;)
    Apparently there is no need for any Jew to have a visa.

    Comfortable. And Russian tank - visa;)

    That's a lot of scrap metal. Took only six days for Jews
    to obtain a mountain of it in one of their insane wars.

    My grandmother was from Kaliningrad. Does that mean I have a Right to
    Return, and get free
    land?

    On general grounds, yes. Just like Segal.

    It was fun serving pizza to him and his film crew on Bourbon Street.

    Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.
    Everybody gives a damn about the Kennedys. Especially the Dead
    Kennedys.

    Similarly, from the same bell tower.

    All my Dead Kennedy albums got stolen, never to be seen again.
    I know who took them. And she will never be forgiven. :)

    In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a
    simplified procedure.
    Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of
    charge.
    Siberia is warming up, with Chinese making it their new home ...

    Dreams are dreams...

    Don't laugh. The Chinese are coming. The Chinese are coming.
    And not all of them are red. :)

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    If we don't get it / Shut it down!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:01:18 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    Okay, where are the 8 packages of sanctions from the United States
    and the European Union
    against Israel???
    Mail service has been a bit slow these days ...

    Did it reach Russia faster by telegraph via swift, do you think? The bell tower is here...

    I was thinking more like pony express ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:01:30 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    A world divided by a 10-meter wall is so-so peaceful. All these
    Nobel prizes are disconnected
    from reality.
    Would the world be a better place without the United Nations? The
    world thought it had the
    answer to putting an end to war with the creation of the League of
    Nations. We all know how
    that worked out. And now the world thinks it has the answer to war
    with its creation of the
    United Nations. And yet war continues, unabated, in various parts of
    the world. So what is the
    answer? What is the answer for World Peace? Can it be attained? Is it
    even possible?

    The UN did not prevent the civilized West from bombing Yugoslavia, staging a
    series of power coups and testing biological weapons over the whole world.

    NATO air power alone was enough to force Serbia to end its ethnic
    cleansing program against Kosovans. The covid-19 virus was not a
    creation in some biological lab in China, as some have claimed.
    And the vaccines are not some kind of population control drugs.

    NATO did not prevent NATO from spreading to the very borders of Russia, arranging biological and nuclear warehouses under the balcony of Russia, smiling in the eyes, holding a deceptive gesture behind his back and poking
    a stick with a nail in the back of the Russians.

    Such delusional thinking is not normal. Milosevic was caught and
    brought to court, but got out of it by croaking just in the nick of
    time.

    The West has raised a cocaine monkey with a grenade and is now surprised at
    the prospect of dying in a nuclear fire?

    I do believe I would be long gone before the fire ever reached me.

    The monkey has been throwing radioactive gifts in the direction of Donbass for a week, what kind of reaction are you waiting for a sleeping bear?

    Tricks or treats. Hallowe'en. Brings out all the witches and goblins.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Change Is Cumming

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:01:35 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    The original reason for the creation of NATO was defensive - for the
    containment of Germany.
    Ditto for the creation of the Warsaw Pact. No country wanted a return
    of Nazi Germany, and
    steps were taken to prevent that from happening.

    Yeah, and instead of Germany, the West chose Ukraine to grow this monster. Comfortable.

    With Germany safely contained, where does that leave the purpose
    of NATO as being? A state of constant war is unsustainable, with no
    peace dividend possible.

    However, times have changed. There is no more Warsaw Pact, and NATO
    has no Nazi Germany to
    worry about. So what is the purpose of NATO? Is it's purpose still
    defensive, as it claims? Or
    has it become something else entirely?

    If, in its rhetoric, NATO did not deal with constant threats towards Russia.. But Nato needs an enemy.

    FDR and Stalin got along. They were able, along with Winston Churchill,
    to work together as allies to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
    After the war, FDR and Stalin remained friends, and put into place the beginnings to create the United Nations. Europe was in tatters due to
    the aftermath of WWII, and only the US and USSR had anything left of
    what one would call civilization.

    Truman took over upon the death of FDR. But his worldview was much
    different. Stalin did not trust him, and for good reason. But Stalin
    stuck to the plan to finish the war with Japan, and there was peace.

    The Marshall Plan worked for the western part of Europe, and the
    Soviet Union had its own plan that worked for the eastern part of
    Europe. But in 1947 it came to be that Truman and Stalin began the
    Cold War, which lasted until Gorbachev threw in the towel. And
    then only because George HW Bush did not do so first.

    We all know what happened during the Yeltsen years.

    Then came Putin.

    We all know what Napoleon Bonaparte did. We all know what Adolf
    Hitler did. Only frigid
    weather stopped France and Germany from achieving their goals of
    conquest.

    Russia has learned to negotiate with the weather ;)

    The weather has always been Russia's friend.

    Why should anybody believe NATO's claim of being for defensive
    purposes only? If an
    organization is going to arm a player, isn't the organization itself
    also a player? Finland
    and Sweden have both formally applied for membership in NATO. What
    happens if either are
    attacked before membership is granted? There will be war, with allies
    coming to their aid and
    assistance. So does it really matter if Ukraine is, or is not, a
    member of NATO?

    Why did the US not like having Russian missiles in Cuba?

    There were never any nukes in Cuba. Only missiles. Khruschev made
    that admission years later, with a grin on his face.

    Just defense, what's so special about that?

    Nothing at all. After all, there were subs in the area with real
    nukes on board. Besides, Khruschev did not trust Castro. Never know
    what a Cuban will do when smoking a cigar. Especially when walking
    into a silo.

    Khrushchev should have put the squeeze on it in 1962 after all.

    What for? Better to keep Castro guessing.

    At the same time, we would have seen how it ended. It's hard to feel like a
    victim, isn't it?

    Bobby Kennedy made a deal, removing missiles that didn't work in
    Turkey for missiles that didn't work in Cuba. Both JFK and Khruschev
    were happy and moved on to other things.

    Who is Russia really at war with?

    With the West, isn't it obvious?

    The Beatles always wanted to leave the West behind ...

    Soviet weapons have already been destroyed, Ukrainian speech from the trenches is heard less and less.

    When the Soviet Union disintegrated, it left some nukes behind in
    Ukraine. Had it not been for the US convincing Ukraine to return them
    to Russia, there might not be any more Moscow.

    Or any more world.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sun Oct 16 00:01:53 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Did Putin recognize it? Never heard of it.
    Putin has traveled to Israel at least twice, that I
    know of. With a sizeable Jewish population in Russia,
    that would make sense, as immigration issues would be
    of importance to both countries.
    Travelling is not recognition in such issues.
    It is more than just about immigration, but also the pursuit
    of peace in the region. There have been four wars since the end
    of WWII, and no peace has yet been found. Despite efforts by
    ??the US, Europe, Russia, and others to bring all sides
    together. Imagine the benefits to Russia, the USA, Europe, and
    to all the countries of the Middle East if real peace could be
    found. A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.

    But one thing is clear - they must live separately.

    Why? Arabs and Jews have lived in the same space for centuries.
    And haven't ever quit fighting. So why should they be forced to
    quit now, or anytime soon?

    The main difference from the situation with Ukraine - Palestinians really treat Israeli as occupants.

    You do realize Menachim Begin was a terrorist. Just like Yasser
    Arafat. In fact, both of them fought on the same side. Against the
    British. But that was before the United Nations got into the act,
    partitioning the British Mandate into two camps - one for Palestinian
    Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs.

    In difference from the Donbass situation where local populations is considered as Russian collaborators. ;-)

    The Jewish population at the time of the UN Partition of Palestine
    was mostly illegal immigrants who got there due to British border
    patrol looking the other way. So who was collaborating with who in
    those days?

    A large segment of the population in Ukraine speaks Russian. But
    that does not make them Russian. A large segment of the population
    in Ukraine speaks Ukrainian. That in and of itself also does not
    make them Ukrainian.

    The US has no official language.

    Not everybody in the USA speaks English. Some speak Spanish. Some
    speak French. Some speak Italian. Or some other language. Yet all
    are American, and have no fear of being deported to somewhere else.

    So why should those who speak Russian have any fear of being
    deported, or not having the same rights as all other Ukrainians?

    A way out:
    Probably, IMHO, after the divorce the world should spend a lot of money
    to make the Arab Palestine as much prosperous so that they will forget about their the desire to fight with Israel.

    Maybe the world should give up its goal of imposing a two-state
    solution for Israel. Just call it Palestine, for Jews and Arabs alike.
    With free and fair elections for all. With UN observers to make sure
    everything is on the up and up.

    Along with US $$$ to ensure tourists to visit from all over the world.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Silence is violence!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sun Oct 16 00:02:00 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    In about seven weeks, 1 December 2022, it will be
    exactly 30 years since the*Ukrainian* people voted for
    independence from Russia, with an overwhelming 96.3%
    for and 3.7% against. In a*proper* referendum, nothing
    like the fake ones Russia is so fond of, inside as well
    as outside of Russia.
    Also in 1991 the USSR held a referendum that asked did
    people wish to preserve the USSR. People of Ukraine also
    supported the USSR. Which referendum is more honest?
    On 26 December 1991.
    A day that will live in infamy.
    The Soviet Union votes itself out of existence.
    The only vote that really mattered, and counted.

    Everybody counts what he likes. ;-)

    One bridge too many.
    Contractor has until 1 July 2023 to fix it.
    In time for the next truck to make its way ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:02:06 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.

    The Israelis will not go to this until the last Palestinian. And the Palestinians will not go either - they have physically nowhere to retreat.

    There is the sea. And there is the desert. And nowhere in between.
    Cain (a hunter) slew Abel (a gardener). So the one who slew his
    brother was branded and banished from the land and sent away. Who
    then is the father of us all?

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    What beer drinkers drink when they're not drinking beer

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 00:02:12 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    On 26 December 1991. A day that will live in infamy. The Soviet LL>Union
    votes itself out of existence. The only vote that really LL>mattered, and counted.

    A private contract that does not comply with any constitution is legally null and void.

    With no more constitution, everything is null and void.
    As such, each republic went its own way. Some before the
    formal vote was actually taken.

    The people of all the republics of the USSR voted for preservation.

    All politics is local. The people of every republic chose to go
    their own way. Whether some who yearned to keep the old Soviet Union
    going or not, those are the facts.

    The opinion of the people (the only power!) rudely ignored and staged a power coup.

    Sorry, you are all wet.

    There was no "power coup" in Ukraine, but an actual vote (Act of
    Declaration of Independence was held in Ukraine on 1 December 1991).
    This is the same act that was adopted by the Supreme Soviet of the
    Ukrainian SSR on 24 August 1991.

    It suits the West exactly and _exclusively_ this option. Because the West is
    a coward and does not need strong opponents.

    So. Kipling had it all wrong. The East is West and the East is West.
    And always the twain shall meet.

    I should have known.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Probably the best beer in the world

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Ralf Wissing on Sun Oct 16 01:41:52 2022
    if i can project the thing i was told from my grandparents from their
    time during WWII in germany (and my time working for a used clothes
    dealer) i would suggest to look into the value of the fabric itself: ONE uniform maybe not worth much, >1000 on the other hand...

    There's a store not too far away from here which still sells US Army WW2 surplus. Good stuff.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 16 02:07:47 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 0:02:

    votes itself out of existence. The only vote that really LL>mattered, and counted. A private
    contract that does not comply with any constitution is legally null and void.
    With no more constitution, everything is null and void. As such, each republic went its own
    way. Some before the formal vote was actually taken.

    OK, the people of Crimea, Donbass, etc. decided that now their paths with Ukraine have diverged. What other vote is required? According to the same Declaration on the Principles of International Law of the United Nations - no. And no recognition is required either.

    The people of all the republics of the USSR voted for preservation.
    All politics is local. The people of every republic chose to go their own way. Whether some
    who yearned to keep the old Soviet Union going or not, those are the facts.

    Just because the three traitors decided so. Mind you, not the people, but three persons who put a bolt on the opinion of the people.

    The opinion of the people (the only power!) rudely ignored and staged a power coup.
    Sorry, you are all wet. There was no "power coup" in Ukraine, but an actual vote (Act of
    Declaration of Independence was held in Ukraine on 1 December 1991). This is the same act that
    was adopted by the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR on 24 August 1991.

    The coup happened in the USSR, even before that. First, the legitimately elected president of USSR was removed by force.

    It suits the West exactly and _exclusively_ this option. Because the West is a coward and
    does not need strong opponents.
    So. Kipling had it all wrong. The East is West and the East is West. And always the twain
    shall meet.

    Depending on where to look from ;) we are watching from Russia now, let me remind you ;)


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 16 02:25:10 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 0:02:

    A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.
    The Israelis will not go to this until the last Palestinian. And the Palestinians will not go
    either - they have physically nowhere to retreat.
    There is the sea. And there is the desert. And nowhere in between. Cain (a hunter) slew Abel
    (a gardener). So the one who slew his brother was branded and banished from the land and sent
    away. Who then is the father of us all?

    This is not a story about a father, but about sin - greed and jealousy. Cain did not understand the meaning of the sacrifice - you need to give something very valuable to God, and only after that you can hope to get some benefits.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 10:00:16 2022
    This is not a story about a father, but about sin - greed and jealousy. Cain did not understand the meaning of the sacrifice - you need to give something very valuable to God, and only after that you can hope to get some benefits.

    We call that "a bribe".

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 10:06:37 2022
    Oleg,

    OK, the people of Crimea, Donbass, etc. decided that now their paths with Ukraine have diverged. What other vote is required?

    The people of Flanders in Belgium would like to go their separate ways. The people of French-Flanders (in the north of France) speak the same language as in Flanders, they would like to leave for Flanders, maybe Scotland will want to leave the UK, in Aland the people speak Swedish and are connected to the Swedish telephone network but are part of Finland ... that is all generic and historic.

    The Donbas is a situation provoked and created by Russia, Russian military have been fighting there since whenever the conflict started. The Crimea situation was provoked and created by Russia...

    That referendum in the Donbas was a joke. As it is part of Ukraine, only the Ukrainian government could decide upon something like that, not an outside power. Plus no secrecy of the vote, armed guards going from door to door extracting a vote (we've seen it on multiple cameras) and noting the names of people electing to stay with Ukraine. It reminded us of elections in Iran when Khomeini rose to power when Mullahs were around in the voting locations to verify your vote before casting it.

    There was a French TV crew allowed to go along on such a vote-forrage and their comment was that people there have no idea what "a free election" means ... they just voted the way they were told to vote.

    If you see the ease with which the Ukrainian armed forces are whipping the ass of the bear you have to conclude they easily could have overrun the Donbas if you are intellectually honest.

    Depending on where to look from ;) we are watching from Russia now, let
    me remind you ;)

    Next time you go outside, wave to the skies ... we're watching via satellite. When Putin goes to the toilet we know he wiped before he even manages to flush.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sun Oct 16 11:32:50 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Sunday October 16 2022 02:07, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    All politics is local. The people of every republic chose to go
    their own way. Whether some who yearned to keep the old Soviet
    Union going or not, those are the facts.

    Just because the three traitors decided so. Mind you, not the people,
    but three persons who put a bolt on the opinion of the people.

    I don't remember any (!) protests in our city during those days.
    No one cared.
    That's why USSR ceased to exist - because no one cared about it.



    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 16 12:07:02 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 0:01:

    Hello Oleg,
    The original reason for the creation of NATO was defensive - for the
    containment of Germany.
    Ditto for the creation of the Warsaw Pact. No country wanted a return
    of Nazi Germany, and
    steps were taken to prevent that from happening.
    Yeah, and instead of Germany, the West chose Ukraine to grow this monster. Comfortable.
    With Germany safely contained, where does that leave the purpose of NATO as being? A state of
    constant war is unsustainable, with no peace dividend possible.

    Meanwhile, during its existence, NATO has been used far beyond borders...

    However, times have changed. There is no more Warsaw Pact, and NATO
    has no Nazi Germany to
    worry about. So what is the purpose of NATO? Is it's purpose still
    defensive, as it claims? Or
    has it become something else entirely?
    If, in its rhetoric, NATO did not deal with constant threats towards Russia.. But Nato needs
    an enemy.
    FDR and Stalin got along. They were able, along with Winston Churchill, to work together as
    allies to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. After the war, FDR and Stalin remained
    friends, and put into place the beginnings to create the United Nations. Europe was in tatters
    due to the aftermath of WWII, and only the US and USSR had anything left of what one would
    call civilization.

    Only the Truman immediately after the Victory over Germany did not offer a hand of friendship, but a fist behind his back and a hint that the USA has the best weapon in the world.

    Truman took over upon the death of FDR. But his worldview was much different. Stalin did not
    trust him, and for good reason. But Stalin stuck to the plan to finish the war with Japan, and
    there was peace.

    Of course Stalin chose peace. Not Hiroshima...

    By the way, Russia never had a peace treaty with Japan, but they lived in peace...

    The Marshall Plan worked for the western part of Europe, and the Soviet Union had its own plan
    that worked for the eastern part of Europe. But in 1947 it came to be that Truman and Stalin
    began the Cold War, which lasted until Gorbachev threw in the towel. And then only because
    George HW Bush did not do so first.

    This is a consequence, not a cause. If Truman had not threatened Stalin, you might have seen everything would have turned out differently...

    We all know what happened during the Yeltsen years.

    Both two are traitors to the motherland!

    Then came Putin.

    And thank God. Yeltsin would have sold off the remnants of the country in a drunken frenzy...

    We all know what Napoleon Bonaparte did. We all know what Adolf
    Hitler did. Only frigid
    weather stopped France and Germany from achieving their goals of
    conquest. Russia has learned to negotiate with the weather ;)
    The weather has always been Russia's friend.

    We try to match in all directions ;)

    Why should anybody believe NATO's claim of being for defensive
    purposes only? If an
    organization is going to arm a player, isn't the organization itself
    also a player? Finland
    and Sweden have both formally applied for membership in NATO. What
    happens if either are
    attacked before membership is granted? There will be war, with allies
    coming to their aid and
    assistance. So does it really matter if Ukraine is, or is not, a
    member of NATO? Why did the US not like having Russian missiles in Cuba?
    There were never any nukes in Cuba. Only missiles. Khruschev made that admission years later,
    with a grin on his face.

    Khrushchev knew how to lie well ;)
    Only now the military experts who exported nukus from Cuba are still alive and know much more than Khrushchev. The US wouldn't even know where it came from... And even now they don't know ;)))
    Just defense, what's so special about that?
    Nothing at all. After all, there were subs in the area with real nukes on board. Besides,
    Khruschev did not trust Castro. Never know what a Cuban will do when smoking a cigar.
    Especially when walking into a silo.

    Submarines not standing ;)

    Khrushchev should have put the squeeze on it in 1962 after all.
    What for? Better to keep Castro guessing.

    What for?

    At the same time, we would have seen how it ended. It's hard to feel like a victim, isn't it?
    Bobby Kennedy made a deal, removing missiles that didn't work in Turkey for missiles that
    didn't work in Cuba. Both JFK and Khruschev were happy and moved on to other things.

    They were scared, very much ;)

    Who is Russia really at war with?
    With the West, isn't it obvious?
    The Beatles always wanted to leave the West behind ...
    Soviet weapons have already been destroyed, Ukrainian speech from the trenches is heard less
    and less.
    When the Soviet Union disintegrated, it left some nukes behind in Ukraine. Had it not been for
    the US convincing Ukraine to return them to Russia, there might not be any more Moscow.

    All nukes were exported from Ukraine. With the conclusion of the Budapest memorandum.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 16 13:01:00 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 0:01:

    The UN did not prevent the civilized West from bombing Yugoslavia, staging a series of power
    coups and testing biological weapons over the whole world.
    NATO air power alone was enough to force Serbia to end its ethnic cleansing program against
    Kosovans. The covid-19 virus was not a creation in some biological lab in China, as some have
    claimed. And the vaccines are not some kind of population control drugs.

    Bombardments with depleted uranium that? It's just for the common good, yeah, you've heard. When you find out the truth about Covid, I can't even imagine your reaction. And also about the antidote. Covid has stopped operating in Russia and has withdrawn all its viruses ;) many have never been vaccinated, for example, I am with the whole family. I used an antidote for a while, then I scored a bolt and sometimes I get sick with ordinary respiratory.

    NATO did not prevent NATO from spreading to the very borders of Russia, arranging biological
    and nuclear warehouses under the balcony of Russia, smiling in the eyes, holding a deceptive
    gesture behind his back and poking a stick with a nail in the back of the Russians.
    Such delusional thinking is not normal. Milosevic was caught and brought to court, but got out
    of it by croaking just in the nick of time.

    Someday there will be a trial of his murderers

    The West has raised a cocaine monkey with a grenade and is now surprised at the prospect of
    dying in a nuclear fire?
    I do believe I would be long gone before the fire ever reached me.

    The keyword is "me"...

    The monkey has been throwing radioactive gifts in the direction of Donbass for a week, what
    kind of reaction are you waiting for a sleeping bear?
    Tricks or treats. Hallowe'en. Brings out all the witches and goblins.

    We have the evidence.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 16 13:19:02 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 0:01:

    The Jewish population wanted all the land for themselves, and took what they could by force.
    Not just the land granted to them by the UN, but also land granted to Palestinian Arabs.
    We all decided in a boyish way, here you, here they, ran quickly to the corners and do not
    interfere with the work of very busy people.
    Who came to the rescue of Palestinian Arabs who were attacked by Jewish Palestinians after the
    1947 UN Partition of Palestine?
    Despite worldwide condemnation, Israel continues to act as an
    apartheid state rather than a
    respectable member of the international community. Especially in
    regards to the city of
    Jerusalem, which is illegally occupied by Israel in violation of the
    inalienable right of
    sovereigny of the people of Palestine.
    Well, he swallowed the whole world. Swallow Ukraine too.
    He who has the gold has no right to rule the world. Especially when that gold has been
    attained by theft.

    You understand everything. But you don't want to understand Crimea and Donbass...

    Hitler told Chamberlain to give him Czecholslovakia. Chamberlain was happy to oblige. Hitler
    told Stalin to give him Poland. Stalin told Hitler "Let's split the pot." We all know who
    benefits from appeasement.
    Where are the sanctions against Israel?
    The General Assembly of the United Nations has been condemning their
    actions for decades. But
    the Security Council keeps vetoing what the international community
    wants. Double standards. Spit on the UN - where are the sanctions of the civilized West?
    Who sez the West is civilized? Who sez any part of the world is civilized? Certainly not me
    ...

    That's how you live...

    Are they - in the fact that the U.S. supports dual citizenship
    specifically with Israel?
    And Vatican City. Let's not forget about all those holy priests and
    nuns who celebrate by
    being celibate.
    The stoned Vatican wasn't enough yet.
    Not all pedophiles are stoned. Some are fully sober.

    And in a sober mind leads humanity to hell.
    They become very sober when the trunk looms at the head. They let out whining, drooling and children's tears "and what are we for?"

    Or in the fact that 160 countries are available to Israelis for
    visa-free entry? ;)
    Apparently there is no need for any Jew to have a visa.
    Comfortable. And Russian tank - visa;)
    That's a lot of scrap metal. Took only six days for Jews to obtain a mountain of it in one of
    their insane wars.

    The cat will shed mouse tears...

    My grandmother was from Kaliningrad. Does that mean I have a Right to
    Return, and get free
    land?
    On general grounds, yes. Just like Segal.
    It was fun serving pizza to him and his film crew on Bourbon Street.

    Do you have Bidenism in your blood? ;) it's a national trait just ;)

    Don't give a damn about the United States from a high bell tower.
    Everybody gives a damn about the Kennedys. Especially the Dead
    Kennedys. Similarly, from the same bell tower.
    All my Dead Kennedy albums got stolen, never to be seen again. I know who took them. And she
    will never be forgiven. :)

    I prefer on the tape ;) Ready to disconnect the Internet ;)

    In principle, anyone can obtain Russian citizenship. Russians - in a
    simplified procedure.
    Moreover, new citizens can obtain land in Russia absolutely free of
    charge.
    Siberia is warming up, with Chinese making it their new home ...
    Dreams are dreams...
    Don't laugh. The Chinese are coming. The Chinese are coming. And not all of them are red. :)

    So they have been among you for a long time, they don't need to come anywhere ;) waiting for an opportunity.

    We have them freezing somehow...;)


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Oct 16 13:21:07 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 0:01:

    Hello Oleg,
    On 26 December 1991 the Soviet Union ceased to exist. So the referendum didn't really matter.
    Legally, this statement is null and void.
    The vote taken by the USSR to dissolve itself was the last official act of its existence.
    And it was decided in a hurry based on the results of the referendum.
    Yes, it was unanimous.

    Aggressive Western propaganda... You have long believed in all these wet dreams of your rulers.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Sun Oct 16 14:03:48 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 10:06:

    OK, the people of Crimea, Donbass, etc. decided that now their paths with Ukraine have
    diverged. What other vote is required?
    The people of Flanders in Belgium would like to go their separate ways. The people of
    French-Flanders (in the north of France) speak the same language as in Flanders, they would
    like to leave for Flanders, maybe Scotland will want to leave the UK, in Aland the people
    speak Swedish and are connected to the Swedish telephone network but are part of Finland ...
    that is all generic and historic.

    Flanders cannot claim secession, nor can Catalonia. It looks like you're pulling an owl on a globe and either you don't know international law or you're pretending.

    The Donbas is a situation provoked and created by Russia, Russian military have been fighting
    there since whenever the conflict started. The Crimea situation was provoked and created by
    Russia...

    Of course, Russia sent the Nazis from Kiev and Kharkov to force Russians in Ukraine to become Ukrainians or die. And how else could it be? Russia also staged a coup in Kiev, from a pro-Russian government to a pro-Western junta.
    What else has Russia provoked? Be silent, I know - the existence of Russia! How well the West would live without her. However, then they would immediately switch to China. All is not lost yet - China is not sleeping ;)

    That referendum in the Donbas was a joke. As it is part of Ukraine, only the Ukrainian
    government could decide upon something like that, not an outside power. Plus no secrecy of the
    vote, armed guards going from door to door extracting a vote (we've seen it on multiple
    cameras) and noting the names of people electing to stay with Ukraine. It reminded us of
    elections in Iran when Khomeini rose to power when Mullahs were around in the voting locations
    to verify your vote before casting it.

    Yes, you really swim in international law. When the people are self-determined, any government smokes on the sidelines. Not any of course, but Ukrainian is absolutely accurate.

    And to lie is not to turn bags. Propaganda earns money.

    You can conduct a survey in Crimea (it's quiet there and they don't shoot) - when people lived better, then or now, whether they were dragged out of their homes under gun barrels to vote and other nonsense. Go yourself, don't be afraid - and tell us here.

    There was a French TV crew allowed to go along on such a vote-forrage and their comment was
    that people there have no idea what "a free election" means ... they just voted the way they
    were told to vote.

    People are all illiterate and deafblind, yeah. The West alone is aware of everything.

    If you see the ease with which the Ukrainian armed forces are whipping the ass of the bear you
    have to conclude they easily could have overrun the Donbas if you are intellectually honest.

    Naive. This is not a Friday exercise with the expectation of a dozen reds from the east, who unexpectedly came from the west.

    Depending on where to look from ;) we are watching from Russia now, let me remind you ;)
    Next time you go outside, wave to the skies ... we're watching via satellite. When Putin goes
    to the toilet we know he wiped before he even manages to flush.

    I always knew you were perverts ;)
    Wipe the optics - it's water, not paper!
    I bet you can't see me? ;)))

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Sun Oct 16 14:05:40 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 16.10.22 10:00:

    This is not a story about a father, but about sin - greed and jealousy. Cain did not
    understand the meaning of the sacrifice - you need to give something very valuable to God,
    and only after that you can hope to get some benefits.
    We call that "a bribe".

    This is your personal relationship with God ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Oleg Nazaroff on Mon Oct 17 09:53:01 2022
    Hi, Oleg Nazaroff!
    I read your message from 14.10.2022 12:01

    AK>> A way out: Probably, IMHO, after the divorce the world
    AK>> should spend a lot of money to make the Arab Palestine as
    AK>> much prosperous so that they will forget about their the
    AK>> desire to fight with Israel.
    ON> To do this, Israel needs to give at least half of the territory
    ON> with the border parallel to the equator. For all the fertile
    ON> lands of Palestine have been forcibly seized by Israel.

    The Gulf states showed if you have a lot of money you can live well everywhere.

    Bye, Oleg!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 17 10:14:12 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 16.10.2022 01:01

    ak>> A way out:
    ak>> Probably, IMHO, after the divorce the world should spend a
    ak>> lot of money to make the Arab Palestine as much prosperous
    ak>> so that they will forget about their the desire to fight
    ak>> with Israel.
    LL> Maybe the world should give up its goal of imposing a two-state
    LL> solution for Israel. Just call it Palestine, for Jews and Arabs
    LL> alike. With free and fair elections for all. With UN observers
    LL> to make sure everything is on the up and up.

    It will not work -- Israel is a ultra-nationalistic state, not to say
    more. It is one of a very few countries where people of one nationality
    have big unlawful privileges.

    PS: In Russia the slogan "Russia for Russians!" is considered as neo-Nazi.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 17 10:16:39 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 16.10.2022 01:02

    ak>> Everybody counts what he likes. ;-)
    LL> One bridge too many.
    LL> Contractor has until 1 July 2023 to fix it.
    LL> In time for the next truck to make its way ...

    Military use intact railway bridge. The automobile road became two time
    narrow (2 lines instead of 4) in the place of the blast.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Mon Oct 17 11:44:20 2022
    Hello, alexander!

    Monday October 17 2022 09:53, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

    To do this, Israel needs to give at least half of the territory
    with the border parallel to the equator. For all the fertile
    lands of Palestine have been forcibly seized by Israel.

    The Gulf states showed if you have a lot of money you can live well everywhere.

    Venezuela is a good example that money is not enough.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Mon Oct 17 11:47:32 2022
    Hello, alexander!

    Monday October 17 2022 10:14, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    It will not work -- Israel is a ultra-nationalistic state, not to say more. It is one of a very few countries where people of one
    nationality have big unlawful privileges.

    Do you know any problems for Russians in Israel?

    PS: In Russia the slogan "Russia for Russians!" is considered as
    neo-Nazi.

    The slogan now is - "Ukranians are Russians or dead".
    Russian military correspondents are reporting that all Ukranians will be killed.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Mon Oct 17 12:18:19 2022
    Hello Oleg,

    A win-win situation for all. Including the Palestinians.
    The Israelis will not go to this until the last Palestinian. And the
    Palestinians will not go
    either - they have physically nowhere to retreat.
    There is the sea. And there is the desert. And nowhere in between.
    Cain (a hunter) slew Abel
    (a gardener). So the one who slew his brother was branded and
    banished from the land and sent
    away. Who then is the father of us all?

    This is not a story about a father, but about sin - greed and jealousy. Cain
    did not understand the meaning of the sacrifice - you need to give something very valuable to God, and only after that you can hope to get some benefits.

    Animal sacrifice is really big in Judaism.
    And sometimes human sacrifice.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Popular vote!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Oct 17 22:07:13 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 17.10.22 12:18:

    away. Who then is the father of us all?
    This is not a story about a father, but about sin - greed and jealousy. Cain did not
    understand the meaning of the sacrifice - you need to give something very valuable to God,
    and only after that you can hope to get some benefits.
    Animal sacrifice is really big in Judaism. And sometimes human sacrifice.

    Not only in Judaism. Also in Islam and many others. Human sacrifice is an integral part of Satanism ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Mon Oct 17 22:13:32 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Monday October 17 2022 22:07, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    Animal sacrifice is really big in Judaism. And sometimes human
    sacrifice.

    Not only in Judaism. Also in Islam and many others. Human sacrifice is
    an integral part of Satanism ;)

    I thought that it's a part of Putinism? :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Mon Oct 17 22:58:25 2022
    Dmitry,

    Animal sacrifice is really big in Judaism. And sometimes human
    sacrifice.

    Not only in Judaism. Also in Islam and many others. Human sacrifice DP>ON> is an integral part of Satanism ;)

    I thought that it's a part of Putinism? :)

    Except oneself ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 00:17:23 2022
    Hello Dmitry,

    All politics is local. The people of every republic chose to go
    their own way. Whether some who yearned to keep the old Soviet
    Union going or not, those are the facts.

    Just because the three traitors decided so. Mind you, not the people,
    but three persons who put a bolt on the opinion of the people.

    I don't remember any (!) protests in our city during those days.
    No one cared.
    That's why USSR ceased to exist - because no one cared about it.

    Apathy is a form of stability.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Drive One

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 03:36:50 2022
    Dmitry Protasoff -> Oleg Nazaroff skrev 2022-10-17 21:13:
    Human sacrifice is an integral part of Satanism ;)

    I thought that it's a part of Putinism? :)

    Same thing, just another word for it. Putin has already sacrificed more than 60k humans and has now collected 220k more to be slaughtered.

    It's the Stalin strategy from WWII all over again; sacrificing 20M humans to barely defeat 1M Germans. A sacrifice *he* was willing to make for his country.

    I'm not so sure that today's Russian people are willing to let Putin nobly make a similar sacrifice just to gain some territory to Make Russia Great Again, while his documented war crimes are piling up every day.

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 09:20:19 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 17.10.2022 11:44

    ON>>> To do this, Israel needs to give at least half of the
    ON>>> territory with the border parallel to the equator. For
    ON>>> all the fertile lands of Palestine have been forcibly
    ON>>> seized by Israel.
    ak>> The Gulf states showed if you have a lot of money you can
    ak>> live well everywhere.
    DP> Venezuela is a good example that money is not enough.

    Such things happen when the US start choke and undermine the country
    economy with all means available. We saw it in many countries. For
    instance Cuba, Chile, Lybia...

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 09:20:27 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 17.10.2022 11:47

    ak>> It will not work -- Israel is a ultra-nationalistic state,
    ak>> not to say more. It is one of a very few countries where
    ak>> people of one nationality have big unlawful privileges.
    DP> Do you know any problems for Russians in Israel?
    ak>> PS: In Russia the slogan "Russia for Russians!" is
    ak>> considered as neo-Nazi.
    DP> The slogan now is - "Ukranians are Russians or dead".
    DP> Russian military correspondents are reporting that all
    DP> Ukranians will be killed.

    Stop telling a fucking lie.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 09:27:14 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday October 18 2022 09:20, you wrote to me:

    The Gulf states showed if you have a lot of money you can
    live well everywhere.
    Venezuela is a good example that money is not enough.

    Such things happen when the US start choke and undermine the country

    US is the main importer of oil from Venezuela. Without US the situation will be much worse.
    But Chavez even called US president "a devil". You can't have good business with yout customers and call them "devils".
    The same problem with Russia - we pissed off our main customer - EU.

    Some people are just very bad at doing business and they blame everyone for their mistakes.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 09:31:36 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday October 18 2022 09:20, you wrote to me:

    The slogan now is - "Ukranians are Russians or dead".
    Russian military correspondents are reporting that all
    Ukranians will be killed.

    Stop telling a fucking lie.

    -----
    New video shows a Russian activist threatening to kill Ukrainians who don't join his nation's cause.

    Julia Davis, a journalist and creator of the watchdog group Russian Media Monitor, tweeted the video of Pavel Gubarev as recorded in the Donetsk People's Republic-one of four territories annexed by Russia and recently recognized by the country as its own after voter referendums believed by Ukraine and Western allies to be illegitimate.

    "We aren't coming to kill you, but to convince you," Gubarev said. "But if you don't want to be convinced, we'll kill you. We'll kill as many as we have to: 1 million, 5 million, or exterminate all of you."

    Gubarev, a Ukrainian, is a pro-Russian activist and self-proclaimed "people's governor" of the Donetsk.
    https://www.newsweek.com/activist-promises-exterminate-all-ukrainians-who-wont-switch-sides-1750839
    -----

    Please stop supporting fucking nazis.

    -----
    Russian State Duma member Mikhail Sheremet said on Thursday that it is hard to "negotiate" with Ukrainians and that eliminating them is the "only" way forward for the Russian invasion in Ukraine.

    "Given the damage that they cause to [our] infrastructure, and [the harm] to the lives and well-being of our citizens, they must only be eliminated," said Sheremet, who is a member of the Duma Security and Anti-Corruption Committee, Russian news agency Tass reported.
    https://www.newsweek.com/russian-lawmaker-mikhail-sheremet-says-eliminating-ukrainians-only-solution-1751627
    -----




    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 18 09:54:17 2022
    It's the Stalin strategy from WWII all over again; sacrificing 20M
    humans to barely defeat 1M Germans. A sacrifice *he* was willing to make for his country.

    Stalin used to say "When a person dies, it's terrible. When a million people die, it's a statistic".

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 09:58:54 2022
    Dmitry,

    The same problem with Russia - we pissed off our main customer - EU.

    Correct ...

    There will be no gas shortage this winter and by 2023/24 it will have been take care of.

    As said earlier on in the conflict ... Russia has already lost it military after 2-3 weeks. Now they've lost it also economically.

    And the reaction of the people will afterwards be

    "Wir haben es nicht gewuszt".

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 11:06:52 2022
    And the reaction of the people will afterwards be

    "Wir haben es nicht gewuszt".

    The image of the Russian people will be the three monkeys:

    See nothing, hear nothing, say nothing.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 12:32:23 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 9:58:

    The same problem with Russia - we pissed off our main customer - EU.
    Correct ... There will be no gas shortage this winter and by 2023/24 it will have been take
    care of.

    You will switch to firewood. If there are still left, the Germans are already cutting down the parks ;)
    Norway and Algeria will end at any moment in the same way as the nord stream, and the Pindos themselves are not enough ;)
    Well, don't forget to blow, green energy requires ;)

    As said earlier on in the conflict ... Russia has already lost it military after 2-3 weeks.
    Now they've lost it also economically.

    In Russia, the domestic market is not yet full.

    And the reaction of the people will afterwards be

    You won't wait.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 12:33:36 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 9:54:

    It's the Stalin strategy from WWII all over again; sacrificing 20M humans to barely defeat 1M
    Germans. A sacrifice *he* was willing to make for his country.
    Stalin used to say "When a person dies, it's terrible. When a million people die, it's a
    statistic".

    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 18 11:42:40 2022
    You will switch to firewood. If there are still left, the Germans are already cutting down the parks ;)

    Oh dear ... is "that" what the propaganda is telling now in Russia? And people believe that?

    Now they've lost it also economically.

    In Russia, the domestic market is not yet full.

    Most of Russia's domestic market cannot afford it ...

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 18 11:44:35 2022
    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..

    Ukraine's military is trained in the west ... even in Belgium.

    No country has ever beaten Belgium ... except in football.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 18 11:46:45 2022
    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..

    Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 18 12:32:08 2022
    In Russia, the domestic market is not yet full.

    Just out of curiosity, what's the price of coffee in Russia now, and how does it compare to the price before 24 February?

    Similarly, the price of a Lada, and how does it's equipment compare to that eight months ago?


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Bj?rn Felten on Tue Oct 18 15:00:17 2022
    Hi, Bj?rn Felten!
    I read your message from 18.10.2022 12:46

    ON>> Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts
    ON>> losses..
    BF> Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has
    BF> only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to
    BF> replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?

    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are
    still only 200000 professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies will arrive to the
    Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said, "It will be a glorious fight!"

    Bye, Bj?rn!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 15:04:38 2022
    Hello, alexander!

    Tuesday October 18 2022 15:00, you wrote to Bj?rn Felten:

    Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has
    only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to
    replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?

    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are still only 200000 professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side

    Don't forget about DNR/LNR soldiers, Rosgvardia members and Vagner mercenaries. Nobody knows how much canons meat Putin sent there.

    in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies will arrive to the
    Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said, "It will be a glorious fight!"

    It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day (and night, and the whole weekend) will be when our stupid dictator will die!

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 14:27:59 2022
    only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to
    replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?

    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are still only 200000 professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses.

    That's not what I asked about. Please read my question again.

    But soon rookies will arrive to the Russian side too.

    Great! More fertilizer for the sunflowers.

    As Kippling's Akela said, "It will be a glorious fight!"

    As the Ukrainian farmers say: "Thank you Putin for all the abandoned hardware that our military guys pay really good money for, and for all the nutrients for our soil."


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 15:05:21 2022
    It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day (and night, and the whole weekend) will be when our stupid dictator will die!

    They're not going to bury him next to Lenin, would they?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 13:39:31 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 11:42:

    You will switch to firewood. If there are still left, the Germans are already cutting down
    the parks ;)
    Oh dear ... is "that" what the propaganda is telling now in Russia? And people believe that?
    Now they've lost it also economically. In Russia, the domestic market is not yet full.
    Most of Russia's domestic market cannot afford it ... Take care, \%/@rd --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 13:41:43 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 11:42:

    You will switch to firewood. If there are still left, the Germans are already cutting down
    the parks ;)
    Oh dear ... is "that" what the propaganda is telling now in Russia? And people believe that?

    I don't know about the local, but that's how the West writes ;)
    Everyone lies, Ward doesn't. Because he lives in a quasi-world.
    Now they've lost it also economically. In Russia, the domestic market is not yet full.
    Most of Russia's domestic market cannot afford it ...

    If only all of it. And so there is no 20%.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 13:46:10 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 11:44:

    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..
    Ukraine's military is trained in the west ... even in Belgium.

    How many of them are left? Naive ;)

    Still, you will have to declare mobilization ;) and as soon as you do, you'll get it right away ;)
    No country has ever beaten Belgium ... except in football.

    No, it's not like that. No one has beaten Belgium YET. No one has beaten Belgium YET.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Tue Oct 18 13:53:37 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 11:46:

    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..
    Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has only lost 6453. Strange that they
    need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?

    Said a citizen of the country, with an area the size of a stadium... ;)

    How long has your country had a war with a front more than 1000 km long? Add the length of the borders of Russia itself ;) And did they fight the same way, with an 8-fold superiority in the number of the enemy? And without preemptive destruction of everything that moves.
    You will tell fairy tales to your grandchildren ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 18 15:25:02 2022
    No country has ever beaten Belgium ... except in football.

    No, it's not like that. No one has beaten Belgium YET. No one has beaten Belgium YET.

    Even Ruskies did not defeat us in football ... look at the size of Ruski-country ... look at the size of Belgium ...

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 16:21:44 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ward!

    Tuesday October 18 2022 15:05, you wrote to me:

    It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day (and night,
    and the whole weekend) will be when our stupid dictator will die!

    They're not going to bury him next to Lenin, would they?

    Why not? They have special institute dedicated to keeping Lenin's body in shape.
    They have "test Lenins" - corpses from different years, they are doing beta testing of different methods to preserve the main body, so adding another dictator is not a very expensive task.

    We had Lenin as a "god" who created everything good around us, next to him we'll have a "satan" who destroyed everything good we had and brought us a lot of troubles :) We need someone to blame for everything! :)


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 16:08:23 2022
    Dmitry,

    We had Lenin as a "god" who created everything good around us, next to
    him we'll have a "satan" who destroyed everything good we had and brought us a lot of troubles :) We need someone to blame for everything! :)

    What you need, I think, is a Tsar ... a real Tsar, life was so much more simple.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Ward Dossche on Tue Oct 18 17:30:42 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, Ward!

    Tuesday October 18 2022 16:08, you wrote to me:

    We had Lenin as a "god" who created everything good around us,
    next to him we'll have a "satan" who destroyed everything good we
    had and brought us a lot of troubles :) We need someone to blame
    for everything! :)

    What you need, I think, is a Tsar ... a real Tsar, life was so much
    more simple.

    We need skilled sniper with good rifle. Even something made by FN is ok!

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Oct 18 17:20:38 2022
    Dmitry,

    What you need, I think, is a Tsar ... a real Tsar, life was so much DP>WD> more simple.

    We need skilled sniper with good rifle. Even something made by FN is ok!

    I'll talk to my friends there ... the also offer beautiful .50 machine guns.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Tue Oct 18 19:43:07 2022
    need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?

    Said a citizen of the country, with an area the size of a stadium... ;)

    *Asked* a citizen of the 5th largest country (by area) in Europe. But I didn't really expect an answer to that obvious Russian lie.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 22:06:26 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    A way out:
    Probably, IMHO, after the divorce the world should spend a
    lot of money to make the Arab Palestine as much prosperous
    so that they will forget about their the desire to fight
    with Israel.
    Maybe the world should give up its goal of imposing a two-state
    solution for Israel. Just call it Palestine, for Jews and Arabs
    alike. With free and fair elections for all. With UN observers
    to make sure everything is on the up and up.

    It will not work -- Israel is a ultra-nationalistic state, not to say more. It is one of a very few countries where people of one nationality have big unlawful privileges.

    Jews have traded their religion (Judaism) for that of a political
    state (Zionism). It is really a sad reflection of what Judaism has
    become, as that is not what it was ever meant to be.

    PS: In Russia the slogan "Russia for Russians!" is considered as neo-Nazi.

    Charles Lindbergh and his America First movement came even
    before Adolf Hitler rose to power. But nobody called him a Nazi.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    What can brown do for you?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 22:06:32 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Everybody counts what he likes. ;-)
    One bridge too many.
    Contractor has until 1 July 2023 to fix it.
    In time for the next truck to make its way ...

    Military use intact railway bridge. The automobile road became two time narrow (2 lines instead of 4) in the place of the blast.

    It is the psychological blow that counted. Showed the world that
    Russian forces were unable to protect any areas within Crimea - or
    anywhere else in Russian-occupied Ukraine.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Education not deportation!

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 18 22:06:37 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts
    losses..

    Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has
    only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to
    replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?

    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are still only 200000 professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies will arrive to the
    Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said, "It will be a glorious fight!"

    Ukraine has a population of about 43 million people.
    Russia has a population of about 143 million people.
    Zelensky has mobilized all men between 18 and 60 for active duty.
    Putin has mobilized all men between 18 and 60 for active duty.
    The casualty rate for the past 8 months has been 1 to 6.5 - with
    Russia suffering the most casualties.

    That would be an estimated 10,000 Ukrainians and 65,000 Russians.

    How long do you think this stupid conflict can continue?

    Year 1 15,000 Ukrainians and 100,000 Russians
    Year 2 30,000 Ukrainians and 200,000 Russians
    Year 3 60,000 Ukrainians and 400,000 Russians
    Year 4, 120,000 Ukrainians and 800,000 Russians
    Year 5 240,000 Ukrainians and 1.6 million Russians
    Year 6, 480,000 Ukrainians and 3.2 million Russians
    Year 7, 960,000 Ukrainians and 6.4 million Russians
    Year 8, 1 million Ukrainians and 12 million Russians
    Year 9, 2 million Ukrainians and 24 million Russians
    Year 10, 4 million Ukrainians and 48 million Russians
    Year 11, 8 million Ukrainians and 96 million Russians
    Year 12, 16 million Ukrainians and all other Russians

    That leaves 21 million Ukrainian women, plus 5 million
    Ukrainian fighter survivors for a total of 26 million live
    Ukrainians. And only a small handful of Russian escapees
    who somehow made it to another universe.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Every Bottom Needs A Top

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 19 01:59:07 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 12:32:

    In Russia, the domestic market is not yet full.
    Just out of curiosity, what's the price of coffee in Russia now, and how does it compare to
    the price before 24 February?

    In a panic, prices soared for everything, some - into space. When they stopped buying what they rarely bought at all - the price tag fell, some things are cheaper than before February.
    Coffee now 1-2 euros. It does not differ in any way compared to the beginning of February. It's so strange to compare restaurant dishes ;) it is easier to compare prices for everyday goods - bread, milk, gasoline. The currency jumped two prices, dropped a week later and now the rate is lower than in January. Bread 0.58 euros, milk 1.28. Yesterday my wife filled with a full tank of 60L, gave 40 euros, I drive ethanol myself, almost for free (it's hard for me to calculate my own cost) ;) Gasoline has fallen in price, about 0.1 euros. Electricity raise by 0.002 euros (this is an annual value raise).

    Similarly, the price of a Lada, and how does it's equipment compare to that eight months
    ago?

    In May-June, I did a major engine repair, the price of spare parts just started to rise, and the warehouses were emptying. In September, the price tag dropped to the level of last year. Import engine oils are freely available on store shelves - the price of domestic oils is better than last year's, the quality is higher than imports.
    From domestic cars, I have a UAZ, a four-wheel drive SUV. With the price of new ones - the same perturbations, rise, then fall.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Oct 19 02:06:32 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 15:25:

    No country has ever beaten Belgium ... except in football. No, it's not like that. No one
    has beaten Belgium YET. No one has beaten Belgium YET.
    Even Ruskies did not defeat us in football ... look at the size of Ruski-country ... look at
    the size of Belgium ...

    Exactly. A small country means fewer rights. Fair enough?

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Bj÷rn Felten on Wed Oct 19 02:08:54 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Bj÷rn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 19:43:

    need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can explain why?
    Said a citizen of the country, with an area the size of a stadium... ;)
    *Asked* a citizen of the 5th largest country (by area) in Europe. But I didn't really
    expect an answer to that obvious Russian lie.

    Are you hard of hearing and hard of seeing in addition?

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 19 02:29:41 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 22:06:

    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..
    Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has
    only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can
    explain why?
    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are still only 200000
    professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses. But soon
    rookies will arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said, "It will be a glorious
    fight!"
    Ukraine has a population of about 43 million people. Russia has a population of about 143
    million people. Zelensky has mobilized all men between 18 and 60 for active duty. Putin has
    mobilized all men between 18 and 60 for active duty. The casualty rate for the past 8 months
    has been 1 to 6.5 - with Russia suffering the most casualties. That would be an estimated
    10,000 Ukrainians and 65,000 Russians. How long do you think this stupid conflict can
    continue? Year 1 15,000 Ukrainians and 100,000 Russians Year 2 30,000 Ukrainians and
    200,000 Russians Year 3 60,000 Ukrainians and 400,000 Russians Year 4, 120,000 Ukrainians
    and 800,000 Russians Year 5 240,000 Ukrainians and 1.6 million Russians Year 6, 480,000
    Ukrainians and 3.2 million Russians Year 7, 960,000 Ukrainians and 6.4 million Russians Year
    8, 1 million Ukrainians and 12 million Russians Year 9, 2 million Ukrainians and 24
    million Russians Year 10, 4 million Ukrainians and 48 million Russians Year 11, 8 million
    Ukrainians and 96 million Russians Year 12, 16 million Ukrainians and all other Russians That
    leaves 21 million Ukrainian women, plus 5 million Ukrainian fighter survivors for a total of
    26 million live Ukrainians. And only a small handful of Russian escapees who somehow made it
    to another universe.

    Dreamer detected ;)
    It is a practical rarity to meet a peaceful man on a Ukrainian street, they are mobilised all over the place. In Russia, this is far from the case. Such a level of losses, if it were, could not be hidden.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 19 02:33:19 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Lee Lofaso.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 22:06:

    Everybody counts what he likes. ;-)
    One bridge too many. Contractor has until 1 July 2023 to fix it. In time for the next truck
    to make its way ...
    Military use intact railway bridge. The automobile road became two time narrow (2 lines
    instead of 4) in the place of the blast.
    It is the psychological blow that counted. Showed the world that Russian forces were unable to
    protect any areas within Crimea - or anywhere else in Russian-occupied Ukraine.

    And it was to solve this issue that the mobilization was carried out. Russia's offensive units have not gone anywhere.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 19 02:45:28 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, alexander koryagin.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 15:00:

    Ukraine is already far behind the statistics, no one counts losses..
    Ahhh yes, Ukraine has lost 100k+ troops, while Russia has
    only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can
    explain why?
    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are still only 200000
    professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses. But soon
    rookies will arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said, "It will be a glorious
    fight!"

    With one small BUT - Russian rookies already have combat experience.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 19 02:53:44 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 18.10.22 14:27:

    only lost 6453. Strange that they need 220k more troops to replace those 6453. Maybe you can
    explain why?
    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side are still only 200000
    professional contractors. That's why Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses.
    That's not what I asked about. Please read my question again.

    You have already been repeatedly answered - in order to ensure order along the entire length of the line of contact and the rear.


    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wed Oct 19 08:59:57 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 18.10.2022 15:04

    ak>> in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies will
    ak>> arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said,
    ak>> "It will be a glorious fight!"
    DP> It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day (and
    DP> night, and the whole weekend) will be when our stupid dictator
    DP> will die!

    In any case it is inaccurate to blame one side only. I understand of
    course that in a country where you are now it is impossible to say
    anything against Kiev, but nevertheless.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wed Oct 19 09:03:50 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 18.10.2022 09:31

    DP>>> The slogan now is - "Ukranians are Russians or dead". Russian
    DP>>> military correspondents are reporting that all Ukranians will be
    DP>>> killed.
    ak>> Stop telling a fucking lie.

    -----
    DP> New video shows a Russian activist threatening to kill Ukrainians
    DP> who don't join his nation's cause.

    DP> Julia Davis, a journalist and creator of the watchdog group Russian
    DP> Media Monitor, tweeted the video of Pavel Gubarev as recorded in
    DP> the Donetsk People's Republic-one of four territories annexed by
    DP> Russia and recently recognized by the country as its own after
    DP> voter referendums believed by Ukraine and Western allies to be
    DP> illegitimate.

    DP> "We aren't coming to kill you, but to convince you," Gubarev
    DP> said. "But if you don't want to be convinced, we'll kill you. We'll
    DP> kill as many as we have to: 1 million, 5 million, or exterminate
    DP> all of you."

    DP> Gubarev, a Ukrainian, is a pro-Russian activist and self-
    DP> proclaimed "people's governor" of the Donetsk.
    DP> https://www.newsweek.com/activist-promises-exterminate-all-ukrainians-who-wont-switch-sides-1750839
    -----

    That man's words is a usual rhetoric of two fighting sides where some
    people went crazy of the war and violance. But note -- Ukrainian
    nationalists are going to kill Russians just in the same way -- as many million Russians as it would be necessary to gain their aims in Donbass.

    I would suggest to you to think over why Ukrainians in Donbass are
    considered as possessed, and Zelensky as a Hitler 2.0. You will
    understand the reason why these people (that man is not a Russian army soldier) fight.

    DP> Please stop supporting fucking nazis.

    It is very funny that both sides use the same terminology and accuse
    each other of Nazi behaviour. ;) But both sides cannot be truthful. One
    of the side is a bastard side. IMHO, Ukrainian nationalists shamelessly
    use the bad Putin's image as a dirty tool to get their aims in Donbass
    and persuade the world that the Russian resistance and Putin's tyranny
    are the same thing. It is not correct. They implement a substitution of concepts, and, I must say it, they have done it with success, because
    Putin's controlled media is mostly discredited in the West, too.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 19 09:34:06 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday October 19 2022 08:59, you wrote to me:

    in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies will
    arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said,
    "It will be a glorious fight!"
    It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day (and
    night, and the whole weekend) will be when our stupid dictator
    will die!

    In any case it is inaccurate to blame one side only. I understand of

    You can't blame the victim. This is immoral.

    course that in a country where you are now it is impossible to say

    In which country?


    Best regards,
    dp.

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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 19 09:36:32 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday October 19 2022 09:03, you wrote to me:

    That man's words is a usual rhetoric of two fighting sides where some people went crazy of the war and violance. But note -- Ukrainian

    But he is not a fighter, he is a politican.
    He is not going to die, but he wants to kill all Ukranians.
    And it's nice to hear how you are defending him. Even satans needs an advocate :)

    nationalists are going to kill Russians just in the same way -- as

    I've never heard anyone from Ukraine with ideas to kill all Russians.

    I would suggest to you to think over why Ukrainians in Donbass are considered as possessed, and Zelensky as a Hitler 2.0. You will

    People from Donbass are just cannon fodder, most of cities are now depopulated becaused they are forced in mass to go and die on the fronlines.

    understand the reason why these people (that man is not a Russian army
    soldier) fight.

    Because they cannot leave Donbass and refusing to fight leads to torture by Russian GRU agents?

    It is very funny that both sides use the same terminology and accuse
    each other of Nazi behaviour. ;) But both sides cannot be truthful.

    It's the Russia started to use old Soviet era language when tried to blame people from Ukraine.
    Putin took old shit from the museum and it smells awfull.

    One of the side is a bastard side. IMHO, Ukrainian nationalists

    The world "bastard" is very strange in this situation. You are defending right of Russia to kill people by using illusional ideas like all Ukranians are Russians.
    I can see that Russians are breaking into 2 diferent nations, like we had 100 years ago, when we've got Soviet people and emigrants abroad, they were very different in their world views, even language and never liked each other.
    Thank you, Putin, for that!

    a substitution of concepts, and, I must say it, they have done it with success, because Putin's controlled media is mostly discredited in the West, too.

    Russian state controlled media is a weapon, they are not media.
    They are directly controlled by Kremlin and they are ok with announcing real nazi ideas, like nuking the whole world, killing Ukranians, torturing people, etc.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 19 09:57:56 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 18.10.2022 23:06

    ak>> PS: In Russia the slogan "Russia for Russians!" is
    ak>> considered as neo-Nazi.
    LL> Charles Lindbergh and his America First movement came even
    LL> before Adolf Hitler rose to power. But nobody called him a Nazi.

    Probably in the US there is not a title nation -- it is a nations
    cauldron, and the slogan has not a nationalistic (Nazi) implication.
    Although IMHO the slogan also doesn't smell nice for people of other countries.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 19 10:02:20 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 18.10.2022 23:06

    ak>>>> Everybody counts what he likes. ;-)
    LL>>> One bridge too many.
    LL>>> Contractor has until 1 July 2023 to fix it.
    LL>>> In time for the next truck to make its way ...
    ak>> Military use intact railway bridge. The automobile road
    ak>> became two time narrow (2 lines instead of 4) in the place
    ak>> of the blast.
    LL> It is the psychological blow that counted. Showed the world that
    LL> Russian forces were unable to protect any areas within Crimea -
    LL> or anywhere else in Russian-occupied Ukraine.

    Maybe, but one thing is obvious, however -- Ukraine has suffered ten
    times more losses after having done it.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Oct 19 10:16:00 2022
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 18.10.2022 23:06

    LL> The casualty rate for the past 8 months has been 1 to 6.5 - with
    LL> Russia suffering the most casualties.

    Do you trust what the Ukrainian media are saying? Do you know that it
    doesn't allow to tell anything that sounds wrong for the authority in Kiev?

    LL> That would be an estimated 10,000 Ukrainians and 65,000
    LL> Russians. How long do you think this stupid conflict can
    LL> continue?

    I predict the final will be approximately as Elon Mask has said -- the
    West will make Kiev to hold talks and make Kiev to agree to held new referendums in the eastern, southern parts of Ukraine and in Crimea.
    Russia will not object it because it knows what Russian people think there.

    Ukraine will lost territories, but it will not look like a defeat, but
    done according to the people will. IMHO, there is no other option,
    because it is impossible now to force Ukrainians and Russians live
    together in one country. To much blood has been shed.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Wed Oct 19 10:27:22 2022
    Hello, alexander!

    Wednesday October 19 2022 10:02, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    Military use intact railway bridge. The automobile road
    became two time narrow (2 lines instead of 4) in the place
    of the blast.
    It is the psychological blow that counted. Showed the world that
    Russian forces were unable to protect any areas within Crimea -
    or anywhere else in Russian-occupied Ukraine.

    Maybe, but one thing is obvious, however -- Ukraine has suffered ten
    times more losses after having done it.

    Putin is good at killing civilians. It's not difficult task. But Russian army is retreating in Ukraine because killing soldiers is much more difficult :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 19 11:00:42 2022
    *Asked* a citizen of the 5th largest country (by area) in Europe.
    But I didn't really expect an answer to that obvious Russian lie.

    Are you hard of hearing and hard of seeing in addition?

    Ad hominem.

    All I could see was something about Sweden being a piss ant little country, and I didn't really understand how that could explain why Russia needs 220k troops to replace the loss of 6453. GIGO

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 19 14:14:56 2022
    Hello, Björn!

    Wednesday October 19 2022 11:00, you wrote to Oleg Nazaroff:

    All I could see was something about Sweden being a piss ant little country, and I didn't really understand how that could explain why
    Russia needs 220k troops to replace the loss of 6453. GIGO

    We've got a joke here:
    - Why police officers walk in group of 3?
    - Because first one can read, the second can write and the third one needs to look after carefully for those intellectuals.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wed Oct 19 14:18:21 2022
    We've got a joke here:

    - Why police officers walk in group of 3?
    - Because first one can read, the second can write and the third one
    needs to look after carefully for those intellectuals.

    LOL! Well, don't forget the additional three that just want to hang out with smart people.


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Björn Felten on Wed Oct 19 17:32:16 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Björn Felten.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 19.10.22 11:00:

    *Asked* a citizen of the 5th largest country (by area) in Europe. But I didn't really expect
    an answer to that obvious Russian lie.
    Are you hard of hearing and hard of seeing in addition?
    Ad hominem.
    All I could see was something about Sweden being a piss ant little country, and I didn't
    really understand how that could explain why Russia needs 220k troops to replace the loss of
    6453. GIGO

    From what fright did you decide that it was a replace? This is an enhancement and nothing more.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 19 19:19:20 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Wednesday October 19 2022 02:45, you wrote to alexander koryagin:

    Zelensky has mobilized a million rookies, and on the Russian side
    are still only 200000 professional contractors. That's why
    Ukrainian side in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies
    will arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's Akela said,
    "It will be a glorious fight!"

    With one small BUT - Russian rookies already have combat experience.

    On paper - yes, in fact - no. And most of them are sick one way or another.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 19 19:23:00 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Wednesday October 19 2022 02:29, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

    It is a practical rarity to meet a peaceful man on a Ukrainian street, they are mobilised all over the place. In Russia, this is far from the

    Sounds like a joke. You are not in Ukraine.
    This problem exists in DPR/LPR, because no one cares about people from Donbass. Puting never cried when they were killed on front lines, their lives means nothing for him.


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Wed Oct 19 12:36:36 2022
    Dreamer detected ;)
    It is a practical rarity to meet a peaceful man on a Ukrainian street, they are mobilised all over the place.

    Of course they are, and why is that? Because someone is attacking them?

    In Russia, this is far from the case. Such a level of losses, if it were, could not be hidden.

    No one is attacking Russia, or made such threats. Ukrainians are defending themselves and their country from an invasion force from Russia.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Thu Oct 20 01:56:35 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 19.10.22 12:36:

    Dreamer detected ;) It is a practical rarity to meet a peaceful man on a Ukrainian street,
    they are mobilised all over the place.
    Of course they are, and why is that? Because someone is attacking them?

    You are impenetrable. It will take you generations to figure this out...

    In Russia, this is far from the case. Such a level of losses, if it were, could not be
    hidden.
    No one is attacking Russia, or made such threats. Ukrainians are defending themselves and
    their country from an invasion force from Russia.

    It is difficult to fight with reinforced concrete mills with bare hands ;)

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 20 02:54:36 2022
    Of course they are, and why is that? Because someone is attacking them?

    You are impenetrable. It will take you generations to figure this out...

    It's not hard to figure out.

    No one is attacking Russia, or made such threats. Ukrainians are defending >> themselves and their country from an invasion force from Russia.

    It is difficult to fight with reinforced concrete mills with bare hands ;)

    So it is but they continue to defend themselves, their land, their families and way of life.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Thu Oct 20 17:18:06 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 20.10.22 2:54:

    Of course they are, and why is that? Because someone is attacking them?
    You are impenetrable. It will take you generations to figure this out...
    It's not hard to figure out.

    It is very difficult for the West.
    You don't accept handwritten rules. More precisely, they work only and exclusively when it is profitable for you. Yugoslavia, Kosovo - they themselves created a precedent, nothing to be surprised about now.

    No one is attacking Russia, or made such threats. Ukrainians are defending themselves and
    their country from an invasion force from Russia.
    It is difficult to fight with reinforced concrete mills with bare hands ;)
    So it is but they continue to defend themselves, their land, their families and way of life.

    The Nazis, who tortured their own people for 8 years, are not worthy of the above.
    Better think about what you will do when all the Nazis are over. Who's next? Poland, Romania?

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Thu Oct 20 08:33:52 2022
    It's not hard to figure out.

    It is very difficult for the West.

    Not at all. It's really quite simple.

    You don't accept handwritten rules.

    What rules?

    More precisely, they work only and exclusively when it is profitable for you. Yugoslavia, Kosovo - they themselves created a precedent, nothing to be surprised about now.

    Precedent? Nato's actions in Kosovo were not unjustified in the way that Russia's actions are. Russia was bombing civilians in Syria as they do today in Ukraine.

    There was no profit in Kosovo or more recently in Ukraine. The west doesn't support Ukraine for profit.

    The Nazis, who tortured their own people for 8 years, are not worthy of the above.

    Indeed Russia did act as Nazi's invading Ukraine all those years ago and they continue even today.

    Better think about what you will do when all the Nazis are over. Who's next? Poland, Romania?

    You've been watching russian TV where the narrative has been about nazis in Ukraine and more recently (or maybe not so recent, I'm not sure) nazis in Poland.

    Of course there are no nazis today.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Thu Oct 20 23:26:38 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 20.10.22 8:33:

    It's not hard to figure out.
    It is very difficult for the West.
    Not at all. It's really quite simple.

    Then relax and have fun. While you still can.

    You don't accept handwritten rules.
    What rules?

    UN Declaration of Principles of International Law.

    More precisely, they work only and exclusively when it is profitable for you. Yugoslavia,
    Kosovo - they themselves created a precedent, nothing to be surprised about now.
    Precedent? Nato's actions in Kosovo were not unjustified in the way that Russia's actions are.
    Russia was bombing civilians in Syria as they do today in Ukraine.

    The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia is "different". Heard, yeah. Yugoslavia just forgot to ask. But we remember fraternal Belgrade.

    There was no profit in Kosovo or more recently in Ukraine. The west doesn't support Ukraine
    for profit.

    Tell your grandchildren fairy tales.

    The Nazis, who tortured their own people for 8 years, are not worthy of the above.
    Indeed Russia did act as Nazi's invading Ukraine all those years ago and they continue even
    today.

    And it will continue. Until the complete defeat.

    Better think about what you will do when all the Nazis are over. Who's next? Poland, Romania?
    You've been watching russian TV where the narrative has been about nazis in Ukraine and more
    recently (or maybe not so recent, I'm not sure) nazis in Poland.

    To see what was happening and is happening in Ukraine, I don't need TV. I go there regularly.

    Of course there are no nazis today.

    They are already at West. When someone of theys knocks on your door, you don't have to be surprised at anything. You raised them yourself.

    --
    WBR, ON

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  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Thu Oct 20 20:52:00 2022
    Hello Alan!

    ** On Thursday 20.10.22 - 08:33, you wrote to Oleg:

    There was no profit in Kosovo or more recently in Ukraine.
    The west doesn't support Ukraine for profit.

    Ukraine is called the bread basket of the world. Ukr is also
    the source of many minerals.

    Indeed Russia did act as Nazi's invading Ukraine all those
    years ago and they continue even today.

    But the Russian viewpoint is probably "if they did it us (in
    the past), then it is ok to do it to them, (now)." ?

    It seems that Putin is just kowtowing to the wishes of the old
    men predating him. In official speeches he is flanked by many
    old military people in the background.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to August Abolins on Thu Oct 20 23:15:08 2022
    There was no profit in Kosovo or more recently in Ukraine.
    The west doesn't support Ukraine for profit.

    Ukraine is called the bread basket of the world. Ukr is also
    the source of many minerals.

    That is so. But still, the west doesn't support Ukraine for profit.

    Indeed Russia did act as Nazi's invading Ukraine all those
    years ago and they continue even today.

    But the Russian viewpoint is probably "if they did it us (in
    the past), then it is ok to do it to them, (now)." ?

    They never did it in the past. Ukraine made no threats or planned attacks in Russia. It was only a short time ago that Ukraine was part of Russia, or the old USSR.

    It seems that Putin is just kowtowing to the wishes of the old
    men predating him. In official speeches he is flanked by many
    old military people in the background.

    Putin was/is trying to grab land from Ukraine in an effort to rebuild the glory of the USSR. Putin himself has said (incorrectly) Ukraine has no right to statehood.

    Three days after the start of the war a page appeared on the kremlin website that pretty much admitted it. The page has since been deleted from the kremlin website but it was captured by archive.org.

    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade Ukraine. He needs a way out... but...

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to August Abolins on Fri Oct 21 10:05:58 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, August Abolins.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 20.10.22 20:52:

    There was no profit in Kosovo or more recently in Ukraine. The west doesn't support Ukraine
    for profit.
    Ukraine is called the bread basket of the world. Ukr is also the source of many minerals.

    After the defeat of the energy infrastructure of Ukraine, the development of minerals on the territory of Ukraine, which do not belong to Ukraine at all, began to surface. The main beneficiaries are Britain and the USA. And you say - an independent country... There is simply nowhere to be dependent. Everything has been sold out and mortgaged for a long time...

    Indeed Russia did act as Nazi's invading Ukraine all those years ago and they continue even
    today.
    But the Russian viewpoint is probably "if they did it us (in the past), then it is ok to do
    it to them, (now)." ? It seems that Putin is just kowtowing to the wishes of the old men
    predating him. In official speeches he is flanked by many old military people in the
    background.

    Never before (before Putin) could combat generals become them before the age of 60. Now they are mostly 40-50 year olds. But those who sit on the ass exactly in the general staff and very rarely go to the place of hostilities - they are really far away to 70 or more years. But they do not make decisions in the current operation. This is the rear, supply, transport..
    The general commanding the operation is 56 years old, Commander-in-chief of the Air Force since 2017.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Fri Oct 21 09:08:27 2022
    It seems that Putin is just kowtowing to the wishes of the old
    men predating him. In official speeches he is flanked by many
    old military people in the background.

    Yes, showing the same puzzled look around dinner time by the occupants of a retirement home after taking their pills.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Fri Oct 21 09:08:40 2022
    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade Ukraine. He
    needs a way out... but...

    Correct ... his death could be a solution but we've been warned there are many Putins waiting.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 21 09:13:27 2022
    The general commanding the operation is 56 years old, Commander-in-chief
    of the Air Force since 2017.

    It's been already 2 weeks since someone fell from a balcony.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Fri Oct 21 10:36:10 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 20.10.22 23:15:

    There was no profit in Kosovo or more recently in Ukraine. The west doesn't support Ukraine
    for profit.
    Ukraine is called the bread basket of the world. Ukr is also the source of many minerals.
    That is so. But still, the west doesn't support Ukraine for profit.

    Tell us more fairy tales. Donbass is like a bone in the throat for Ukraine with a Russian population. It is in the Donbas that most of the coal and shale gas/oil deposits are located. It was, now it's already Russia ;)
    The Russian population, and even those protesting against the junta policy, have repeatedly been declared unnecessary and subject to destruction. Ukraine needed only and exclusively useful minerals. The production of shale gas and shale oil was sold in absentia to Chevron. And about the extraction method that poisons water - you can ask at least the residents of Texas. After Chevron, only scorched earth and poisoned water remain. So the residents were not taken into account at all, these are unnecessary expenses.
    Joe Biden's son, Hunter - have you forgotten yet? He is a member of the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, a company that rippers the bowels of Ukraine. And so yes - no profit, purely charity! ;)

    Indeed Russia did act as Nazi's invading Ukraine all those years ago and they continue even
    today.
    But the Russian viewpoint is probably "if they did it us (in the past), then it is ok to do
    it to them, (now)." ?
    They never did it in the past. Ukraine made no threats or planned attacks in Russia. It was
    only a short time ago that Ukraine was part of Russia, or the old USSR.

    You are absolutely incapable of analyzing the situation and believe exclusively in Western propaganda. Can you find Ukraine on the globe? ;)

    It seems that Putin is just kowtowing to the wishes of the old men predating him. In
    official speeches he is flanked by many old military people in the background.
    Putin was/is trying to grab land from Ukraine in an effort to rebuild the glory of the USSR.
    Putin himself has said (incorrectly) Ukraine has no right to statehood.

    Don't confuse the USSR cosplay with the Russian Empire ;)
    At the time before the formation of the USSR, there was no Ukraine in sight, either as a state or even as a region.

    Three days after the start of the war a page appeared on the kremlin website that pretty much
    admitted it. The page has since been deleted from the kremlin website but it was captured by
    archive.org.

    We have nothing to hide, it is the West that seeks to rewrite history, both its own and the East.


    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 21 00:40:22 2022
    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade Ukraine. He
    needs a way out... but...

    Correct ... his death could be a solution but we've been warned there are many Putins waiting.

    Yes, Putin's death might not end the war. Russia needs a real government.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 21 10:40:38 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Friday October 21 2022 10:36, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Tell us more fairy tales. Donbass is like a bone in the throat for
    Ukraine with a Russian population. It is in the Donbas that most of
    the coal and shale gas/oil deposits are located. It was, now it's

    Donbas was ok before the 2014. No one was killed or detained there because he was Russian.

    already Russia ;) The Russian population, and even those protesting against the junta policy, have repeatedly been declared unnecessary
    and subject to destruction. Ukraine needed only and exclusively useful

    Destruction?! It's a Russian politicans who openly announce plans to convert all Ukranians into Russians or kill them.

    minerals. The production of shale gas and shale oil was sold in
    absentia to Chevron. And about the extraction method that poisons

    Why do you care about gas and oil of foreign countries? I have no idea why its so important for you.

    water - you can ask at least the residents of Texas. After Chevron,
    only scorched earth and poisoned water remain. So the residents were

    Well, after USSR Ukranie had a Chernobil ;)

    not taken into account at all, these are unnecessary expenses. Joe
    Biden's son, Hunter - have you forgotten yet? He is a member of the
    board of directors of Burisma Holdings, a company that rippers the
    bowels of Ukraine. And so yes - no profit, purely charity! ;)

    We've got sons of Russians politicians everywhere but you don't care about them :)

    You are absolutely incapable of analyzing the situation and believe exclusively in Western propaganda. Can you find Ukraine on the globe?
    ;)

    When you've visited Ukraine last time? I've done it twice since 2014 :)

    Putin was/is trying to grab land from Ukraine in an effort to
    rebuild the glory of the USSR. Putin himself has said
    (incorrectly) Ukraine has no right to statehood.

    Don't confuse the USSR cosplay with the Russian Empire ;)
    At the time before the formation of the USSR, there was no Ukraine in sight, either as a state or even as a region.

    So there was no Finland. So what?

    Three days after the start of the war a page appeared on the
    kremlin website that pretty much admitted it. The page has since
    been deleted from the kremlin website but it was captured by
    archive.org.

    We have nothing to hide, it is the West that seeks to rewrite history, both its own and the East.

    It's just old people in Kremlin who what's to leave some trace in a history. And brainwashed people.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 21 10:43:32 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 21.10.22 9:13:

    The general commanding the operation is 56 years old, Commander-in-chief of the Air Force
    since 2017.
    It's been already 2 weeks since someone fell from a balcony.

    General Surovikin has been in charge of the operation for the fourth day. It's strange that you didn't notice the principal changes ;)
    and who decided to kill themselves - they are like dirt, there is theirs road. Especially those who sold out to the United States and worked for them. Shit always pops up.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Ward Dossche on Fri Oct 21 10:54:12 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Ward Dossche.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 21.10.22 9:08:

    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade Ukraine. He needs a way out...
    but...
    Correct ... his death could be a solution but we've been warned there are many Putins waiting.

    And don't get your hopes up. Putin has not been the only one with the same position on Ukraine and the West for a long time.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 21 03:05:02 2022
    That is so. But still, the west doesn't support Ukraine for profit.

    Tell us more fairy tales.

    That is a simple fact.

    Donbass is like a bone in the throat for Ukraine with a Russian population. It is in the Donbas that most of the coal and shale gas/oil deposits are located.

    So that is what Putin (and Russia) is after. Russia would do well to look for a greener solution.

    It was, now it's already Russia ;)

    That's a mistake, Oleg. Russia is Russia, and Ukraine is Ukraine regarless of Putin's documents/signature and misguided ideas.

    The Russian population, and even those protesting against the junta policy, have repeatedly been declared unnecessary and subject to destruction.

    Ukraine made no such declaration. The people of the Donbass are nothing but cannon fodder to Putin. He never cared about them.

    Ukraine needed only and exclusively useful minerals. The production of shale gas and shale oil was sold in absentia to Chevron. And about the extraction method that poisons water - you can ask at least the residents of Texas.

    People all over the world have paid the price to extract minerals (profits).

    After Chevron, only scorched earth and poisoned water remain. So the residents were not taken into account at all, these are unnecessary
    expenses.

    That was Chevron, not the west. They do the same things here.

    Joe Biden's son, Hunter - have you forgotten yet? He is a member of the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, a company that rippers the bowels of Ukraine. And so yes - no profit, purely charity! ;)

    Joe Bidens son? Are you a republican by chance? ;)

    Yes, he was a director at Burisma at one time. Burisma has many directors. What makes Hunter Biden so intereting to you?

    That was Burisma, not the west.

    They never did it in the past. Ukraine made no threats or planned attacks
    in Russia. It was only a short time ago that Ukraine was part of Russia, or the old USSR.

    You are absolutely incapable of analyzing the situation and believe exclusively in Western propaganda.

    That is not any propaganda. It is another (simple) truth.

    Can you find Ukraine on the globe? ;)

    Yes, I can find both Ukraine and Russia on the map.

    Putin himself has said (incorrectly) Ukraine has no right to statehood.

    Don't confuse the USSR cosplay with the Russian Empire ;)
    At the time before the formation of the USSR, there was no Ukraine in sight, either as a state or even as a region.

    I'll say it again. Putin himself (incorrectly) said that Ukraine had no right to statehood, no right to exist in his mind.

    I did not entertain any USSR cosplay, you did.

    Three days after the start of the war a page appeared on the kremlin
    website that pretty much admitted it. The page has since been deleted from >> the kremlin website but it was captured by archive.org.

    We have nothing to hide, it is the West that seeks to rewrite history, both
    its own and the East.

    archive.org is also, NOT the west.

    archive.org simply takes snapshots of websites and archives them unaltered.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Alan Ianson on Fri Oct 21 14:23:57 2022
    Hi, Alan Ianson!
    I read your message from 21.10.2022 10:40

    ??>>>> Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to
    ??>>>> invade Ukraine. He
    ??>>> >>needs a way out... but...
    ??>> >Correct ... his death could be a solution but we've
    ??>> been warned there are >many Putins waiting.
    AI> Yes, Putin's death might not end the war. Russia needs a real
    AI> government.

    Nothing will change if Ukraine will hold the same nationalistic policy.

    Bye, Alan!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews 2022
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    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Fri Oct 21 14:27:49 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 19.10.2022 09:34

    ak>>>> in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies
    ak>>>> will arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's
    ak>>>> Akela said, "It will be a glorious fight!"
    DP>>> It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day
    DP>>> (and night, and the whole weekend) will be when our
    DP>>> stupid dictator will die!
    ak>> In any case it is inaccurate to blame one side only. I
    ak>> understand of
    DP> You can't blame the victim. This is immoral.

    Immoral, like a woman asks money from a man and when refused tears her
    dress and yell that the man wanted to rape her.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 21 14:38:48 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Friday October 21 2022 14:27, you wrote to me:

    in reality has much more losses. But soon rookies
    will arrive to the Russian side too. As Kippling's
    Akela said, "It will be a glorious fight!"
    It's gonna be just another massacre. The glorious day
    (and night, and the whole weekend) will be when our
    stupid dictator will die!
    In any case it is inaccurate to blame one side only. I
    understand of
    You can't blame the victim. This is immoral.

    Immoral, like a woman asks money from a man and when refused tears her

    Do you have problems with women asking for your money?! Are you a millionaire?

    dress and yell that the man wanted to rape her.

    This is how Russian president demanded NATO withdrawal and now telling everyone that he is fighting with NATO?
    But NATO is not fighting with Russia, they decided to skip the battle :)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Fri Oct 21 14:43:40 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 19.10.2022 09:36

    ak>> That man's words is a usual rhetoric of two fighting sides where
    ak>> some people went crazy of the war and violance. But note --
    DP> But he is not a fighter, he is a politican. He is not going to die,
    DP> but he wants to kill all Ukranians. And it's nice to hear how you
    DP> are defending him. Even satans needs an advocate :)

    ak>> nationalists are going to kill Russians just in the same way -- as

    DP> I've never heard anyone from Ukraine with ideas to kill all
    DP> Russians.

    Have you been among ultra-nationalists? ;-)

    ak>> I would suggest to you to think over why Ukrainians in Donbass are
    ak>> considered as possessed, and Zelensky as a Hitler 2.0. You will

    DP> People from Donbass are just cannon fodder, most of cities are now
    DP> depopulated becaused they are forced in mass to go and die on the
    DP> fronlines.

    They do it because they consider the alternative is worse.

    ak>> It is very funny that both sides use the same terminology and
    ak>> accuse each other of Nazi behaviour. ;) But both sides cannot be
    ak>> truthful.

    DP> It's the Russia started to use old Soviet era language when tried
    DP> to blame people from Ukraine. Putin took old shit from the museum
    DP> and it smells awfull.

    They blame not people from Ukraine but ultra-nationalists who had driven
    a wedge between nations of Ukraine.

    ak>> One of the side is a bastard side. IMHO, Ukrainian nationalists
    DP> The world "bastard" is very strange in this situation. You are
    DP> defending right of Russia to kill people by using illusional ideas
    DP> like all Ukranians are Russians. I can see that Russians are
    DP> breaking into 2 diferent nations, like we had 100 years ago, when
    DP> we've got Soviet people and emigrants abroad, they were very
    DP> different in their world views, even language and never liked each
    DP> other. Thank you, Putin, for that!

    When you tell here that I (or any others) had said the idea that "all Ukrainians are Russians" you probably had been high on marijuana.

    Russians lived in Russia and Ukraine was just a province. Russians
    cannot become Ukrainians just simply because the borders had changed.
    The situation in Ukraine (in difference with Estonia, for instance) is
    in the quantity of Russian people in Ukraine.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 21 14:46:38 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Friday October 21 2022 14:43, you wrote to me:

    I've never heard anyone from Ukraine with ideas to kill all
    Russians.

    Have you been among ultra-nationalists? ;-)

    Do you have names?

    People from Donbass are just cannon fodder, most of cities are
    now depopulated becaused they are forced in mass to go and die
    on the fronlines.

    They do it because they consider the alternative is worse.

    No, they cannot escape Donbass. You cannot leave Dobass if you are able to hold the weapon.

    It's the Russia started to use old Soviet era language when
    tried to blame people from Ukraine. Putin took old shit from the
    museum and it smells awfull.

    They blame not people from Ukraine but ultra-nationalists who had
    driven a wedge between nations of Ukraine.

    They call jew Zelensky "a nazi". It's a bullshit.

    When you tell here that I (or any others) had said the idea that "all Ukrainians are Russians" you probably had been high on marijuana.

    I've posted here speaches of Russian officials who are using this kind of language.
    Are they on drugs?

    Russians lived in Russia and Ukraine was just a province. Russians

    It was a Soviet Repulic with UN representative. One of the founders of UN.

    cannot become Ukrainians just simply because the borders had changed.

    They have voted for independencem, so they become Russians with Ukranian citizenship.
    You can easily distinguish them from people from other regions because they have specific accent.

    The situation in Ukraine (in difference with Estonia, for instance) is
    in the quantity of Russian people in Ukraine.

    Situation is different becase Estonia is a NATO country. Russia cannot invade Estonia.

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to alexander koryagin on Fri Oct 21 04:51:42 2022
    Yes, Putin's death might not end the war. Russia needs a real
    government.

    Nothing will change if Ukraine will hold the same nationalistic policy.

    Of course Ukraine is nationalistic. Russia is also nationalistic.

    In spite of that Russia still needs a real (rational) government.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Fri Oct 21 17:30:57 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 21.10.22 3:05:

    Tell us more fairy tales.
    That is a simple fact.

    Nope

    Donbass is like a bone in the throat for Ukraine with a Russian population. It is in the
    Donbas that most of the coal and shale gas/oil deposits are located.
    So that is what Putin (and Russia) is after. Russia would do well to look for a greener
    solution.

    Green in Russia no pasaran ;) nobody needs shale, coal in so far as.

    It was, now it's already Russia ;)
    That's a mistake, Oleg. Russia is Russia, and Ukraine is Ukraine regarless of Putin's
    documents/signature and misguided ideas.

    Yes, the residents of Donbass do not care about your opinion. They have made their decision.

    The Russian population, and even those protesting against the junta policy, have repeatedly
    been declared unnecessary and subject to destruction.
    Ukraine made no such declaration. The people of the Donbass are nothing but cannon fodder to
    Putin. He never cared about them.

    Tell your Western friends about people. That's really who doesn't care.

    Ukraine needed only and exclusively useful minerals. The production of shale gas and shale
    oil was sold in absentia to Chevron. And about the extraction method that poisons water - you
    can ask at least the residents of Texas.
    People all over the world have paid the price to extract minerals (profits).

    And they kill people who get in the way? the United States has done exactly this and continues to do so, depending on the affiliation of the territories.

    After Chevron, only scorched earth and poisoned water remain. So the residents were not taken
    into account at all, these are unnecessary expenses.
    That was Chevron, not the west. They do the same things here.

    Really? Did the African aborigines outbid you? And according to the documents - the West.

    Joe Biden's son, Hunter - have you forgotten yet? He is a member of the board of directors of
    Burisma Holdings, a company that rippers the bowels of Ukraine. And so yes - no profit,
    purely charity! ;)
    Joe Bidens son? Are you a republican by chance? ;)

    I don't care what happens in the USA. From the word 'at all'.

    Yes, he was a director at Burisma at one time. Burisma has many directors. What makes Hunter
    Biden so intereting to you?

    I don't care what Zelensky will pay with him anymore. At least by myself. Not Donbass, for sure.
    But all the documents point specifically to Grandpa Biden's son.

    That was Burisma, not the west.

    Also Africans? What bad aborigines...

    You are absolutely incapable of analyzing the situation and believe exclusively in Western
    propaganda.
    That is not any propaganda. It is another (simple) truth.

    Lying to the whole world is very bad for the West, this is the simple truth.

    Can you find Ukraine on the globe? ;)
    Yes, I can find both Ukraine and Russia on the map.

    Awesome! Well, at least one doesn't have geographical cretinism. Biden couldn't ;)

    Putin himself has said (incorrectly) Ukraine has no right to statehood.
    Don't confuse the USSR cosplay with the Russian Empire ;) At the time before the formation of
    the USSR, there was no Ukraine in sight, either as a state or even as a region.
    I'll say it again. Putin himself (incorrectly) said that Ukraine had no right to statehood, no
    right to exist in his mind.

    This has long been a popular opinion. The state pitting its residents is outlawed.

    I did not entertain any USSR cosplay, you did.

    Who else would let you...

    Three days after the start of the war a page appeared on the kremlin website that pretty
    much admitted it. The page has since been deleted from the kremlin website but it was
    captured by archive.org.
    We have nothing to hide, it is the West that seeks to rewrite history, both its own and the
    East.
    archive.org is also, NOT the west.

    Without a difference. The owners are from the west.

    archive.org simply takes snapshots of websites and archives them unaltered.

    So what? Read the Pentagon archives on Ukraine there better. That's where the bunch of idiots is.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
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  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Fri Oct 21 15:31:28 2022
    What makes Hunter Biden so intereting to you?

    I don't care what Zelensky will pay with him anymore. At least by myself. Not Donbass, for sure.
    But all the documents point specifically to Grandpa Biden's son.

    What documents?

    Lying to the whole world is very bad for the West, this is the simple truth.

    I agree, lying is bad generally.

    I'll say it again. Putin himself (incorrectly) said that Ukraine had no
    right to statehood, no right to exist in his mind.

    This has long been a popular opinion. The state pitting its residents is outlawed.

    This is another simple truth. Putin never cared about the people of Donbass or even Russia.

    archive.org is also, NOT the west.

    Without a difference. The owners are from the west.

    archive.org and it's owner(s) are not political players.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 22 00:45:34 2022
    Hello Ward,

    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade Ukraine. He
    needs a way out... but...

    Correct ... his death could be a solution but we've been warned there are many Putins waiting.

    Body doubles.

    Everybody knows there can be only one.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    What can brown do for you?

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Sat Oct 22 00:45:43 2022
    Hello Ward,

    The general commanding the operation is 56 years old, Commander-in-chief
    of the Air Force since 2017.

    It's been already 2 weeks since someone fell from a balcony.

    There was one fellow who fell off a boat ...

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    I won't fan the flames of hate, ~Joe Biden

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Sat Oct 22 08:59:37 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 21.10.22 15:31:

    What makes Hunter Biden so intereting to you?
    I don't care what Zelensky will pay with him anymore. At least by myself. Not Donbass, for
    sure. But all the documents point specifically to Grandpa Biden's son.
    What documents?

    That's right, you're too lazy even to study your Western press...

    Lying to the whole world is very bad for the West, this is the simple truth.
    I agree, lying is bad generally.

    You're all lying! ;)

    I'll say it again. Putin himself (incorrectly) said that Ukraine had no right to statehood,
    no right to exist in his mind.
    This has long been a popular opinion. The state pitting its residents is outlawed.
    This is another simple truth. Putin never cared about the people of Donbass or even Russia.

    If I didn't care, I wouldn't evacuate civilians. And for some reason he conducts it...

    archive.org is also, NOT the west.
    Without a difference. The owners are from the west.
    archive.org and it's owner(s) are not political players.

    If some events coincide, they may well become them.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sat Oct 22 00:53:30 2022
    What documents?

    That's right, you're too lazy even to study your Western press...

    What documents?

    You're all lying! ;)

    Russia is lying to it's own people and the world. Some things never change.

    This is another simple truth. Putin never cared about the people of
    Donbass or even Russia.

    If I didn't care, I wouldn't evacuate civilians. And for some reason he conducts it...

    Oh, are you talking about marshall law? ;)

    archive.org and it's owner(s) are not political players.

    If some events coincide, they may well become them.

    No, archive.org simply, is not a political player.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Oct 22 10:15:41 2022
    It's been already 2 weeks since someone fell from a balcony.

    There was one fellow who fell off a boat ...

    That's more than 2 weeks ago ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - 20220519
    * Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Oleg Nazaroff@2:50/700 to Alan Ianson on Sat Oct 22 13:15:09 2022
    ä«íα«ú« óαѼÑτ¬á, Alan Ianson.
    éδ »¿ß὿ 22.10.22 0:53:

    What documents?
    That's right, you're too lazy even to study your Western press...
    What documents?

    About the activities of Bidon's son in Ukraine.

    You're all lying! ;)
    Russia is lying to it's own people and the world. Some things never change.

    the West lies so clumsily that it is already seen in the West ;)
    And what is Russia lying to us about?

    This is another simple truth. Putin never cared about the people of Donbass or even Russia.
    If I didn't care, I wouldn't evacuate civilians. And for some reason he conducts it...
    Oh, are you talking about marshall law? ;)

    I have no idea what you're talking about. people are being taken out of the combat zone, even before the introduction of martial law. This is after the Nazis began to cut them during our retreat maneuvers.

    archive.org and it's owner(s) are not political players.
    If some events coincide, they may well become them.
    No, archive.org simply, is not a political player.

    Just simple - there can only be a person independent of the West.

    --
    WBR, ON

    ò«Γä«ú - απß߬á∩ ßí«α¬á HotdogEd
    --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android
    * Origin: 27 ½ÑΓ ó ö¿ñ«... ì¿-τÑ-ú« ¡Ñ ¼Ñ¡∩ÑΓß∩... (2:50/700)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Oleg Nazaroff on Sat Oct 22 14:12:20 2022
    Hello, Oleg!

    Saturday October 22 2022 13:15, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    And what is Russia lying to us about?

    "There will be no war", "There will be no mobilization", sounds like you don't have good memory ;)


    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Alan Ianson on Sun Oct 23 12:50:00 2022
    Hello Alan Ianson!

    ** On Thursday 20.10.22 - 23:15, Alan Ianson wrote to August Abolins:

    Ukraine is called the bread basket of the world. Ukr is
    also the source of many minerals.

    That is so. But still, the west doesn't support Ukraine
    for profit.

    But it *does* have a vested interest in it. To embrace Ukr into
    the fold of amicable business/economic activity is wise.


    But the Russian viewpoint is probably "if they did it us (in
    the past), then it is ok to do it to them, (now)." ?

    They never did it in the past. Ukraine made no threats or
    planned attacks in Russia. It was only a short time ago
    that Ukraine was part of Russia, or the old USSR.

    I meant the Rus artificial attitude of feeling persecuted from
    their communist past and now totalitarian government.

    The following report/study provides excellent summary of Ukr's
    past, present and a vision for the future.

    https://kyivrysing.kyivconsulting.com/past


    It seems that Putin is just kowtowing to the wishes of the old
    men predating him. In official speeches he is flanked by many
    old military people in the background.

    Putin was/is trying to grab land from Ukraine in an effort
    to rebuild the glory of the USSR. Putin himself has said
    (incorrectly) Ukraine has no right to statehood.

    Three days after the start of the war a page appeared on
    the kremlin website that pretty much admitted it. The page
    has since been deleted from the kremlin website but it was
    captured by archive.org.

    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade
    Ukraine. He needs a way out... but...

    The agressive military approach has resulted in a global
    backlash. Most people of the world just want to get along
    (despite some ideological differences) and just find ways to
    prosper economically. It is the old men at the helm in Rus that
    can't see past the "wartime glory days". Sad. Putins speech
    at.. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390 ..is
    quite rife with retoric with a mix of lies thrown in.
    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: --> . <-- Oh look.. A point! (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to August Abolins on Sun Oct 23 17:56:16 2022
    That is so. But still, the west doesn't support Ukraine
    for profit.

    But it *does* have a vested interest in it. To embrace Ukr into
    the fold of amicable business/economic activity is wise.

    Does it? I don't think the west's support of Ukraine is based on some kind of vested interest.

    Any country that wants "business/economic" activity with Ukraine is free to do that.

    Europe has been having "business/economic" ties with Russia around their oil and gas needs. That all seems difficult now. If the war ended today I am not sure Europe would still buy oil and gas from Russia knowing that they would use the money to build the Russian war machine.

    I meant the Rus artificial attitude of feeling persecuted from
    their communist past and now totalitarian government.

    Yes, I think there needs to be an honest discussion in Russia but I don't think that is going to happen any time soon.

    The following report/study provides excellent summary of Ukr's
    past, present and a vision for the future.

    https://kyivrysing.kyivconsulting.com/past

    I'll have a look at that.

    Putin made a massive miscalculation in his plan to invade
    Ukraine. He needs a way out... but...

    The agressive military approach has resulted in a global
    backlash. Most people of the world just want to get along
    (despite some ideological differences) and just find ways to
    prosper economically.

    That's what I see.

    It is the old men at the helm in Rus that can't see past the "wartime glory days". Sad. Putins speech at.. http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/69390 ..is quite rife with retoric with a mix of lies thrown in.

    That state runs the media in Russia. I haven't looked at it in a while but when I did it looked like some kind of daytime drama, far removed from anything that resembles truth.

    I honestly don't see a way out for Russia today.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Dmitry Protasoff on Mon Oct 24 14:28:17 2022
    Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
    I read your message from 21.10.2022 14:46

    ak>> Russians lived in Russia and Ukraine was just a province.
    ak>> Russians
    DP> It was a Soviet Repulic with UN representative. One of the
    DP> founders of UN.

    Don't make me laugh -- Ukraine had nothing to do with the UN foundation.
    The reason why Stalin had pushed some Soviet republics into the UN were geo-political.

    Bye, Dmitry!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to alexander koryagin on Mon Oct 24 21:29:44 2022
    *** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

    Hello, alexander!

    Monday October 24 2022 14:28, you wrote to me:

    founders of UN.

    Don't make me laugh -- Ukraine had nothing to do with the UN
    foundation. The reason why Stalin had pushed some Soviet republics

    Just check UN's official documents ;)

    into the UN were geo-political.

    Who cares what he wanted? The only important thing is that Ukraine was and is on the list of founding countries.
    Words means nothing if you have documents ;) This is our local Russian rule.
    Do you remember local proverb?

    "Without document you are an insect, with document you a man"(c) ;)

    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Tue Oct 25 08:01:09 2022
    Hello Alexander,

    Russians lived in Russia and Ukraine was just a province.
    Russians
    It was a Soviet Repulic with UN representative. One of the
    founders of UN.

    Don't make me laugh -- Ukraine had nothing to do with the UN foundation. The reason why Stalin had pushed some Soviet republics into the UN were geo-political.

    Stalin pushed for 15 delegates in the UN, one for each republic.
    Truman countered by pushing for 50 delegates in the UN, one for each
    state. The UN decided to allow 3 for Stalin, and 1 for Truman, with
    both the USA and the USSR having a seat on the Security Council.

    Time for the UN to modernize its ways. The new Security Council
    should consist of Japan, Germany, Brazil, USA, and China. With the
    one and only official language being Russian, so everyone will be
    confused about what is going on.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)