hello, i am new here. i read this is the debate like message board on fidonet. i just wanted to raise a debate which is president obama's fight on guns. i like more information to what other people think of his current fight to regulate gun control and how it is affecting our way of life. i will keep this post short, and raise it up if anyone responds to this message. whoever responds thank you. i be happy to continue talking or debating this topic. bye now.--- SBBSecho 2.32-Win32
hello, i am new here. i read this is the debate like message board on fidonet. i just wanted to raise a debate which is president obama's fight on guns. i like more information to what other people think of his current fight to regulate gun control and how it is affecting our way of life. i will keep this post short, and raise it up if anyone responds to this message. whoever responds thank you. i be happy to continue talking or debating this topic. bye now.
Hi, Chris Ogniben!
I read your message from 09.01.2016 19:26
CO> hello, i am new here. i read this is the debate like message board
CO> on fidonet. i just wanted to raise a debate which is president
CO> obama's fight on guns. i like more information to what other people
CO> think of his current fight to regulate gun control and how it is
CO> affecting our way of life. i will keep this post short, and raise
CO> it up if anyone responds to this message. whoever responds thank
CO> you. i be happy to continue talking or debating this topic. bye
CO> now.
It's easy - most Americans are afraid each other. So, no chance to live without guns. ;=)
Hi, Tim Richardson!
I read your message from 10.01.2016 16:57
ak>> It's easy - most Americans are afraid each other. So, no chance to
ak>> live without guns. ;=)
TR> Not true.
TR> Most Americans are watchful of their `government'.
TR> And the main reason for the Second Amendment guaranteeing all
TR> American citizens the right to keep and bear arms was to keep an
TR> armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical
TR> government.
Small arms is useless for that purpose.
TR> A right to self-defense is an inherent right secured to all people
TR> everywhere. It goes without saying that you have the right to
TR> defend yourself against anyone who would do you harm or rob you of
TR> your property.
It is actual only in a country full of bandits. ;-) Watch carefully and shoot first! It's not a big distance from the wild West. It doesn't look
as a civilized country, either.
TR> Not all citizens are allowed to exercise that right, however.
Who are not allowed? Is there a certain database of those who are not allowed?
TR> The leftist democrats, who think they know what's best for everyone
TR> else, have greatly restricted that right in most areas where they
TR> hold absolute sway, like Chicago, New York, Washington, DC,
TR> practically the entire state of California, etc etc.
What kind of restriction? Who can be denied weapon buying?
TR> All the mass shootings that have occurred that get the democrats
TR> hot about gun confiscation have pretty much occurred in `gun free
TR> zones'.
Do you think that teachers in school should keep his holster opened? ;-)
Hi, Tim Richardson!
ak>> Small arms is useless for that purpose.
TR> What makes you think all we've got is `small arms'?
If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying equipment
where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.
TR>>> to defend yourself against anyone who would do you harm or rob
TR>>> you of your property.
ak>> It is actual only in a country full of bandits. ;-) Watch
ak>> carefully and shoot first! It's not a big distance from the wild
ak>> West. It doesn't look as a civilized country, either.
TR> We (at least *I*) don't care what it looks like to outsiders. We
TR> get that kind of talk from a lot of foreigners; `we aren't
TR> `civilized' '!
TR> Yeah well... we like our guns, and we don't give a hoot in hell
TR> what foreigners think about that.
Such thoughts are probably spoken not only by the foreigners. There are
many Americans who think that if people do not feel themselves safe
without feeling guns with their buttocks there is something very wrong
in such a country.
TR> Convicted felons, some misdemeanor convictions, and those who have
TR> been in mental institutions are usually caught in a background
TR> check for a firearm purchase.
If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it doesn't
mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how nutcases acquire
submachine guns.
TR> So... the only persons allowed to carry loaded firearms in
TR> California are cops or criminals. Cops carry all sorts of guns, and
TR> criminals don't obey gun laws. So the common law-abiding citizen is
TR> on their own.
Do you think it would be good if people also carry sabers and daggers?
It is even less powerful weapon for self-defence than guns.
TR>>> All the mass shootings that have occurred that get the democrats
TR>>> hot about gun confiscation have pretty much occurred in `gun free
TR>>> zones'.
ak>> Do you think that teachers in school should keep his holster
ak>> opened? ;-)
TR> A large segment of Americans are ex-military of one sort or
TR> another. I am a Vietnam veteran, have been in combat, and I know
TR> when and when not to open fire.
In Vietnam American soldiers created rains of bullets without thinking
to much. It was enough to hear a rustle behind the trees. ;)
TR> People don't need cops or some other organization to `teach' them
TR> firearm safety. I've been around weapons since my father first let
TR> me try his 12 gauge when I about 11. I went through the Army, a
TR> war, and many years living in states where handguns were commonly
TR> carried by everyone. I've never shot anyone I didn't intend to
TR> shoot, never had a firearm `accident', and never `went off the deep
TR> end' with a gun.
Yes, it a cultural phenomena.
TR> Here in the states I've used a handgun to prevent a few incidents,
TR> take a few people into custody, and been deputized twice to aid
TR> deputy sheriff's who were working alone in rural areas who needed
TR> backup.
TR> The vast majority of people this president is referring to when he
TR> accuses us of `clinging to God and our guns' are just as
TR> responsible and experienced with firearms as I try to be.
But anyway, allowing school teachers to have guns is a bad idea. ;=)
Hi, Tim Richardson!
I read your message from 13.01.2016 13:37
ak>>>> It's easy - most Americans are afraid each other. So, no chance
ak>>>> to live without guns. ;=)
TR>>> Not true. Most Americans are watchful of their `government'.
TR>>> And the main reason for the Second Amendment guaranteeing all
TR>>> American citizens the right to keep and bear arms was to keep an
TR>>> armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical
TR>>> government.
ak>> Small arms is useless for that purpose.
TR> What makes you think all we've got is `small arms'?
If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying equipment
where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.
TR>>> to defend yourself against anyone who would do you harm or rob
TR>>> you of your property.
ak>> It is actual only in a country full of bandits. ;-) Watch
ak>> carefully and shoot first! It's not a big distance from the wild
ak>> West. It doesn't look as a civilized country, either.
TR> We (at least *I*) don't care what it looks like to outsiders. We
TR> get that kind of talk from a lot of foreigners; `we aren't
TR> `civilized' '!
TR> Yeah well... we like our guns, and we don't give a hoot in hell
TR> what foreigners think about that.
Such thoughts are probably spoken not only by the foreigners. There are
many Americans who think that if people do not feel themselves safe
without feeling guns with their buttocks there is something very wrong
in such a country.
TR>>> Not all citizens are allowed to exercise that right, however.
ak>> Who are not allowed? Is there a certain database of those who are
ak>> not allowed?
TR> Yes.
TR> Convicted felons, some misdemeanor convictions, and those who have
TR> been in mental institutions are usually caught in a background
TR> check for a firearm purchase.
If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it doesn't
mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how nutcases acquire
submachine guns.
<skipped>
TR> So... the only persons allowed to carry loaded firearms in
TR> California are cops or criminals. Cops carry all sorts of guns, and
TR> criminals don't obey gun laws. So the common law-abiding citizen is
TR> on their own.
Do you think it would be good if people also carry sabers and daggers?
It is even less powerful weapon for self-defence than guns.
TR>>> All the mass shootings that have occurred that get the democrats
TR>>> hot about gun confiscation have pretty much occurred in `gun free
TR>>> zones'.
ak>> Do you think that teachers in school should keep his holster
ak>> opened? ;-)
TR> A large segment of Americans are ex-military of one sort or
TR> another. I am a Vietnam veteran, have been in combat, and I know
TR> when and when not to open fire.
In Vietnam American soldiers created rains of bullets without thinking
to much. It was enough to hear a rustle behind the trees. ;)
<skipped>
TR> People don't need cops or some other organization to `teach' them
TR> firearm safety. I've been around weapons since my father first let
TR> me try his 12 gauge when I about 11. I went through the Army, a
TR> war, and many years living in states where handguns were commonly
TR> carried by everyone. I've never shot anyone I didn't intend to
TR> shoot, never had a firearm `accident', and never `went off the deep
TR> end' with a gun.
Yes, it a cultural phenomena.
TR> Here in the states I've used a handgun to prevent a few incidents,
TR> take a few people into custody, and been deputized twice to aid
TR> deputy sheriff's who were working alone in rural areas who needed
TR> backup.
TR> The vast majority of people this president is referring to when he
TR> accuses us of `clinging to God and our guns' are just as
TR> responsible and experienced with firearms as I try to be.
But anyway, allowing school teachers to have guns is a bad idea. ;=)
TR>>> American citizens the right to keep and bear arms was to keep an
TR>>> armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical
TR>>> government.
ak>> Small arms is useless for that purpose.
TR> What makes you think all we've got is `small arms'?
If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying equipment
where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.
Tanks and bombers are pretty much useless in an urban environment - unless the government wants to alienate the rest of the people. They're pretty much useless in jungles and forests, too. We should have learned that in Vietnam and you should have learn ed it in Afghanistan.
Small arms, however, are very useful in such an environment. So are knives and garrots.
If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it doesn't mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how nutcases acquire submachine guns.
Submachine guns and "assault rifles" are just bullet hoses. They are notoriously inaccurate.
An experienced shooter can do far more damage -
from a much greater distance - with a scoped big game rifle, and have
little "collateral damage."
TR> The vast majority of people this president is referring to when he
TR> accuses us of `clinging to God and our guns' are just as
TR> responsible and experienced with firearms as I try to be.
But anyway, allowing school teachers to have guns is a bad idea. ;=)
A century and a half ago in this country it was quite common for students - ages 10 to 13 - in rural schools to carry pistols to and from school. Yet there was none of the mayhem then that there is now
ak>> If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying
ak>> equipment where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be
ak>> destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.
TR> The cops in this country have military vehicles of sorts, even
TR> armored personnel carriers.
I don't doubt that the cops are equipped very well. But we talk about
common people's "right to keep and bear arms ... to keep an armed
citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical government."
TR> Trouble is... pretty much all those who whine about ordinary
TR> Americans owning their own guns, standing at a microphone
TR> thundering against the Second Amendment, are usually surrounded by
TR> plain clothes body guards who are armed to the teeth!
The only hope is that they follow their promises given during the
election campaign. They could demand gun restriction on behalf their electorate only. So democracy must show itself.
TR>>> Convicted felons, some misdemeanor convictions, and those who
TR>>> have been in mental institutions are usually caught in a
TR>>> background check for a firearm purchase.
ak>> If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it
ak>> doesn't mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how nutcases
ak>> acquire submachine guns.
TR> So what?
The easier is a buying procedure the more chances for crazy persons to
get armed. So, a heavy restriction is not a bad idea. After all a restriction is not a prohibition.
TR> Islamic fanatics `go off' with swords and knives all the time,
TR> slashing and stabbing people. I'd prefer having a. 44 special in my
TR> pocket than a pocket knife in that scenario.
They can think in this way also.
<skipped>
TR> Not a single teacher was armed and able to engage a gunman who was
TR> `harming the children'.
TR> At Sandy Hook even the security guard was `un'armed! And the
TR> children died!
I think that the probability that a teacher will kill his students in
temper is higher than the probability he will defend them from a
terrorist. :) A teacher should be unarmed, as a researcher who is going
to study savages in the jungle. More chances for negotiations. :)
BA> Small arms, however, are very useful in such an environment. So are
BA> knives and garrots.
Garrot? Is it an arm, too?
TR> well. And the fact that we possess the means of preventing an out
TR> and out dictator establishing a hold over us seems to upset the
TR> rest of the world.
If a state is really a strong democratic republic it can guarantee that
no tyrant will come to power. It is loaded into the basement of the
state structure itself
- no need for citizens to keep submachine guns
under their pillows. One person have a limited power in the US.
In other words if a railway company is good you don't need to take
spanners while taking a ride on the train.
TR> We aren't a `democracy'. We are a `democratic republic'.
Above I've already told what I think of a democratic republic.
ak>> a terrorist. :) A teacher should be unarmed, as a researcher who
ak>> is going to study savages in the jungle. More chances for
ak>> negotiations. :)
TR> To my knowledge no teacher has ever gone off in a school and
TR> slaughtered a classroom full of students.
Yeah, they don't carry guns yet. ;-)
<skipped>
TR> If you are a foreigner and live in a foreign country, please stay
TR> there and continue to be `controlled' by whatever dictator who
TR> rules you. We don't need you here. We already have enough leftist
TR> democrats who want to disarm the general public, control us in
TR> every aspect of our lives, and micromanage our existence. We don't
TR> need another one.
Of course it is up to you to decide. I mean up to Americans. But if the majority wants to introduce strict arm control? Does the voice of the majority means anything in your country?
out an APC loaded with troops. A 30 06 round from 400 yards does a perfect job as well. Most American hunters are well up on their shooting skills with a rifle.
Re: Re: obamas gun fight
By: Tim Richardson to BOB ACKLEY on Sat Jan 16 2016 04:59 pm
out an APC loaded with troops. A 30 06 round from 400 yards does a perfect job as well. Most American hunters are well up on their shooting skills with a rifle.
In the show Jericho, a drama about life in a small town after a limited nuclear war, militias with a variety of battle rifles and assault rifles try to take over the town. The town defends itself, and I remember seeing guys with what looked like Remington 700s with scopes on the front line behind a barricade, 20 yards away.
I would have put them on high ground 200 yards away and told them to pretend the bad guys had antlers.
Small arms is useless for that purpose.
What makes you think all we've got is `small arms'?
If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying
equipment where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be
destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.
The cops in this country have military vehicles of sorts, even
armored personnel carriers.
One such up in Los Angeles was even equipped with a long battering
ram for breaking down the heavily reinforced doors of drug houses.
I don't doubt that the cops are equipped very well. But we talk about common people's "right to keep and bear arms ... to keep an armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical government."
American citizens the right to keep and bear arms was to keep
an armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical
government.
Small arms is useless for that purpose.
What makes you think all we've got is `small arms'?
If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying
equipment where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be
destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.
Tanks and bombers are pretty much useless in an urban environment -
unless the government wants to alienate the rest of the people.
They're pretty much useless in jungles and forests, too. We should
have learned that in Vietnam and you should have learn ed it in
Afghanistan.
It is not correct. The Afghan and Vietnam rebel success has some sense only when they receive multi-billion military help and other high-tech equipment for fighting planes, tanks etc. The success of Taliban
fighters now is due to they have in their hands "help" originated both from the USA and the USSR. ;)
Small arms, however, are very useful in such an environment. So are
knives and garrots.
Garrot? Is it an arm, too?
<skipped>
Who are not allowed? Is there a certain database of those who
are not allowed?
Yes. Convicted felons, some misdemeanor convictions, and those
who have been in mental institutions are usually caught in a
background check for a firearm purchase.
If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it
doesn't mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how nutcases
acquire submachine guns.
Submachine guns and "assault rifles" are just bullet hoses. They
are notoriously inaccurate. An experienced shooter can do far more
damage - from a much greater distance - with a scoped big game
rifle, and have little "collateral damage."
But submachine guns are perfect weapon for mass murders.
If the Americans buy such things it means that the criminal situation is similar to Intifada in Israel. ;)
The next step, I suppose, will be submachine guns installed on the balconies.
<skipped>
But anyway, allowing school teachers to have guns is a bad
idea. ;=)
A century and a half ago in this country it was quite common for
students - ages 10 to 13 - in rural schools to carry pistols to and
from school. Yet there was none of the mayhem then that there is
now
Well, if there were some wolves around. Otherwise the school teachers should have been unhappy. ;)
Hi, Tim Richardson!
I read your message from 20.01.2016 05:59
ak>> Of course it is up to you to decide. I mean up to Americans. But
ak>> if the majority wants to introduce strict arm control? Does the
ak>> voice of the majority means anything in your country?
TR> Firstly, there would have to be a process gone through to change
TR> the Constitution. Far too many people would both strongly oppose
TR> any change to the Second amendment or any attempt to do so, and
TR> secondly, it would take the 2\3'ds majority of all states to make
TR> it happen. And in this country that's not going to happen.
Well, for instance, the green light for gay marriages had been turned on without any referendum.
Surely this question will not gain the 2/3
approval if the referendum were held. It was a decision made by a very limited group of American people.
TR> And secondly... no! The `majority' means very little in this
TR> country.
TR> For every referendum put on a ballot passed by `the majority'...
TR> there is a leftist state or federal court that will strike down the
TR> `majority's' decision.
So the arm restriction is in the offing. ;=)
Schoolkids armed with rocks, showing off their pitching skills
to major league baseball scouts. It is their way out of poverty,
unnerstan'?
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