Hello Everybody,

The last message posted by Bob Klahn in this echo is
dated June 20, 2015. Although he has set up an account
at Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/bob.klahn.9
no contact information is noted.

It is time for somebody to turn the lights out.

Unless Bob Klahn objects.

Which he won't.

After all, Bob has left the building.

Just like Elvis Presley. And Michael Jackson.
And Whitney Houston. And Amy Winehouse. And ...

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)

It is time for somebody to turn the lights out.

Unless Bob Klahn objects.

Which he won't.

The Debate echo means something to me. As does Fidonet in
general.

It used to be a great place to have discussions. It has declined
drastically, with the loss of most of the people willing to
discuss without attacking.

It used to be we would even talk about our families in here, with
people we disagreed with vehemently. Now talking about them makes
them subject to personal attack.

So, I am keeping the echo open, check in once in a while, but
there is very little worth doing in Fidonet anymore.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Bob Klahn - Moderator - Debate Echo...
* Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Check Out Doc's QWK Mail Via Web BBS > DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)

Hello Bob,

It is time for somebody to turn the lights out.

Unless Bob Klahn objects.

Which he won't.

The Debate echo means something to me. As does Fidonet in
general.

Then be part of it by participating! Invite others to join in!
Stir the pot, and create your own pot of gumbo!

It used to be a great place to have discussions. It has declined drastically, with the loss of most of the people willing to
discuss without attacking.

And who's fault is that? Your lack of participation is part
of the reason why this echo lost its luster. I am not saying
that is your fault, as like anybody else you do have a life.
But things could have been handled differently, and should
have.

It used to be we would even talk about our families in here, with
people we disagreed with vehemently. Now talking about them makes
them subject to personal attack.

Again, who's fault is that? You chose to allow a small group
of bullies have their way. And now you are making friends with
the same group of bullies who did it to you then so that you
can say you are the "moderator" of an echo you cannot control?
A moderator does not control an echo, Bob. That is beyond the
control of anyone.

So, I am keeping the echo open, check in once in a while, but
there is very little worth doing in Fidonet anymore.

I am the official moderator of the Debate echo. The origin of
this version is 2:203/2 - which means you are shit out of luck.

But don't feel bad. You have the distinct honor of joining
Peter Bradie as Moderator Emeritus.

--Lee Lofaso - Moderator - Debate Echo ...

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

22 Oct 15 14:40, you wrote to BOB KLAHN:

So, I am keeping the echo open, check in once in a while, but there
is very little worth doing in Fidonet anymore.

I am the official moderator of the Debate echo.

no you're not...

The origin of this version is 2:203/2 - which means you are shit out
of luck.

no, it means that ""you guys"" have crosslinked two different areas with the same echotag... exactly one of the main reasons for the echolist to be created in the first place... another reason was so that there was one central place to
look and see what might be available rather than sending areafix queries all over the place...

But don't feel bad. You have the distinct honor of joining Peter
Bradie as Moderator Emeritus.

how can there be any emeritus if your version never existed before now? your sysop needs to break the link to separate the two distinct echos from the rest... good luck with that!

)\/(ark

... A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it!!!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Mark,

So, I am keeping the echo open, check in once in a while, but there
is very little worth doing in Fidonet anymore.

I am the official moderator of the Debate echo.

no you're not...

I'm afraid so.
And even worse, Tim Richardson is my co-pilot.
Talk about scary.

The origin of this version is 2:203/2 - which means you are shit out
of luck.

no, it means that ""you guys"" have crosslinked two different areas with

the

same echotag...

I made my declaration first, so I am King of the Mountain!
If another guy (or gal) wants it, he (or she) will have to
bump me off!

exactly one of the main reasons for the echolist to be created in the

first

place...

Which echolist might that be? Yours? Mine? No elist
or echolist has any official status in fidonet. And for
good reason. Certainly a man of your intellect can see
that.

another reason was so that there was one central place to look and see

what

might be available rather than sending areafix queries all over the place...

An official elist/echolist would make it too easy for abuse/censorship
to take place. And the present situation of dickheads worshipping an elist/echolist is proving that point in spades.

But don't feel bad. You have the distinct honor of joining Peter
Bradie as Moderator Emeritus.

how can there be any emeritus if your version never existed before now?

My version is the origional. All others are cheap imitations.

your sysop needs to break the link to separate the two distinct echos from the rest...

All sysops are welcome to continue carrying this echo.

good luck with that!

Delink yourself.

--Lee Lofaso, Moderator, Debate Echo ...

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

...

The Debate echo means something to me. As does Fidonet in
general.

Then be part of it by participating! Invite others to join
in! Stir the pot, and create your own pot of gumbo!

Not unless we have some people who can discuss without
attacking.

It used to be a great place to have discussions. It has declined
drastically, with the loss of most of the people willing to
discuss without attacking.

And who's fault is that? Your lack of participation is part
of the reason why this echo lost its luster. I am not

I participated until there was little to participate in, Even
you didn't post much for quite a while.

We don't need another flame echo, go to all-politics if you want
that.

I am the official moderator of the Debate echo. The origin
of this version is 2:203/2 - which means you are shit out
of luck.

Where did you register it?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Bob Klahn - Moderator - Debate Echo...
* Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
* Origin: Check Out Doc's QWK Mail Via Web BBS > DocsPlace.org (1:123/140)

Hello Bob,

The Debate echo means something to me. As does Fidonet in
general.

Then be part of it by participating! Invite others to join
in! Stir the pot, and create your own pot of gumbo!

Not unless we have some people who can discuss without
attacking.

Participants are allowed to freely express themselves in this echo.
As moderator, I am not going to impose limits on that speech. The
one rule I expect (and insist) all to abide by is -

NO ILLEGAL ACTIVITY!

As far as I know, the first amendment remains part of the US
Constitution. The United Nations Declaration on Human Rights also
guarantees freedom of speech, with the US being a signatory.

I am not willing to part with that philosophy.

Fidonet is about communication. Open communication between
people from around the world, not limited to any particular group,
or region. Limiting that communication by imposing restrictions
on what can be expressed (or by whom) is called CENSORSHIP.

If you want to be like Donald Trump, who apparently thinks he
can insult his way to the presidency, then go ahead and start
your own echo with that in mind. But I doubt you will be able
to find many followers.

You see, The Donald can get away with it because he is a jerk.
A jerk with a lot of money. And he knows it. But you are not
The Donald. And you do not have a lot of money. Not like The
Donald, anyway. And you know it. As does everybody else.

You want people to play nice. Well, you know what? Politics
ain't beanbag. SO GET OVER IT! Ain't no way in god-given hell
The Donald is gonna play nice. So why should anybody else?

It used to be a great place to have discussions. It has declined
drastically, with the loss of most of the people willing to
discuss without attacking.

And who's fault is that? Your lack of participation is part
of the reason why this echo lost its luster. I am not

I participated until there was little to participate in, Even
you didn't post much for quite a while.

Posting one or two messages every three or four months is not
going to generate much, if any, traffic. You have to do much more
than that. I am not faulting you, only stating the obvious.

Blaming others is also not going to fix things. Expecially
in light of the fact that some things cannot be fixed. And this
is probably one of those things. Fidonet has become a relic
of the past whose best days are long gone, and is now just a
small fraction of what it once was.

We don't need another flame echo, go to all-politics if you want
that.

No echo in fidonet has many participants. Most have none at all.

This is not a designated flame echo, where no rules apply. In a
designated flame echo, participants know what they are getting into.
And those who don't find out quickly. Kind of like a Don Rickles
performance. People actually pay good money to see his act. And
if insulted by the King of Insult, they feel honored. Or shamed.
Depending on point of view. But, the point is, people do this
willingly, and knowingly.

Freedom of speech does not mean putting a gag on those whose
views you disagree with. That is called CENSORSHIP. Yes, there
are many forms of censorship, not all of them obvious.

One positive thing that can be done is to allow participants to
use an alias/handle. Sysops and moderators can do that, as they
have been doing ever since the creation of fidonet.

As moderator, I made a change that you were too chickenshit to
implement. I have already mentioned what that change is. But I
will mention it to you again, in very simple english -

Every participant in this echo is free to use an alias/handle
of their own choice.

How did I accomplish this? Why has no fidonet administrator
objected? Well, you see, it's like this. No fidonet administrator
wants to give up any of his/her "power" - and part of that "power"
is their god-given right to use an alias/handle of their own choice.

What I did was declare ALL participants in this echo co-moderators.
That means you, Bob Klahn, are also a co-moderator of this echo.

It also means that some other participant might be using an
alias/handle of Bob Klahn ...

I am the official moderator of the Debate echo. The origin
of this version is 2:203/2 - which means you are shit out
of luck.

Where did you register it?

The FidoWeb, silly. ;)

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)