• %HELP ?

    From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to All on Tue Jan 3 20:01:25 2017
    Hi,

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.11.61-B20170103
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Tue Jan 3 18:02:25 2017
    On 03 Jan 17 20:01:25, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to All:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    It should...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Jan 3 18:22:48 2017
    On 2017 Jan 03 20:01:24, you wrote to All:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    IIRC, no... it may take "-h" on the subject line after the password, though... that's the original method used before the body style %verb options were introduced...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong...
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mark Lewis on Tue Jan 3 21:07:20 2017
    On 03 Jan 17 18:22:48, Mark Lewis said the following to Wilfred Van Velzen:

    On 2017 Jan 03 20:01:24, you wrote to All:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    IIRC, no... it may take "-h" on the subject line after the password, though that's the original method used before the body style %verb options were introduced...

    It does not.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 4 08:59:25 2017
    Hi Nick,

    On 2017-01-03 18:02:25, you wrote to me:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    It should...

    When I send a %HELP to Ward's AreaFix, I get 2 messages in response. The first with:

    The following is a list from 2:292/854 of available areas:

    The other with:

    2:280/464 is now active for the following:

    Those are responses to %LIST and %QUERY. I was expecting a help text explaining
    the various commands which are available...?


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.11.61-B20170103
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Wed Jan 4 09:37:58 2017
    Hi mark,

    On 2017-01-03 18:22:48, you wrote to me:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    IIRC, no... it may take "-h" on the subject line after the password, though... that's the original method used before the body style %verb options were introduced...

    This only gives me the %QUERY: "2:280/464 is now active for the following:" response...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.11.61-B20170103
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Roger Nelson@1:3828/7 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 4 16:40:48 2017

    On 03 Jan 17 20:01:25, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to All:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    It should...

    It does and I've never had to use the suggestion mark put forth.


    Regards,

    Roger

    --- DB 3.99 + W10 (1607)
    * Origin: NCS BBS - Houma, LoUiSiAna (1:3828/7)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Tue Jan 17 16:58:06 2017
    Hi Nick,

    On 2017-01-04 08:59:25, I wrote to you:

    Doesn't d'Bridge's AreaFix know the %HELP command?

    It should...

    When I send a %HELP to Ward's AreaFix, I get 2 messages in response. The first with:

    The following is a list from 2:292/854 of available areas:

    The other with:

    2:280/464 is now active for the following:

    Those are responses to %LIST and %QUERY. I was expecting a help text explaining the various commands which are available...?

    Since I never got a response to this... Can you post the output of d'Bridge's %HELP here?


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Tue Jan 17 11:09:35 2017
    On 17 Jan 17 16:58:06, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    Those are responses to %LIST and %QUERY. I was expecting a help text explaining the various commands which are available...?

    Since I never got a response to this... Can you post the output of d'Bridge %HELP here?

    From: D'Bridge AREAFIX (1:1/130)
    To: Anxious Areafix user
    Subj: AREAFIX information

    The D'Bridge AREAFIX system is very basic and accepts only your PASSWORD on
    the subject line of a request, followed by a space and either -L to LIST available/connected areas or -R to RESCAN connected areas. In the body of the message is the area(s) to connect or disconnect (minus-sign); one line at a time. You may use the keywords ALL or -ALL to connect/disconnect all available areas for your system.

    [End]

    Keep in mind I just published a minor update for this; so Ward's system may or may not show this paragraph of text, or it may show something entirely different as the Sysop has the option of specifying their own text.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Nick Andre on Tue Jan 17 17:56:40 2017

    Keep in mind I just published a minor update for this; so Ward's system
    may or
    may not show this paragraph of text, or it may show something entirely different as the Sysop has the option of specifying their own text.

    I haven't installed the latest version yet ... remodeling, refurbishing, IKEA and taking a lot of crap to the dumpster.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier -- Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Ward Dossche on Tue Jan 17 18:39:54 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-17 17:56:40, Ward Dossche wrote to Nick Andre:
    about: "Re: %HELP ?":

    Keep in mind I just published a minor update for this; so Ward's
    system may or may not show this paragraph of text, or it may show
    something entirely different as the Sysop has the option of
    specifying their own text.

    I haven't installed the latest version yet ... remodeling, refurbishing, IKEA and taking a lot of crap to the dumpster.

    --- D'Bridge 3.99

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Tue Jan 17 13:01:52 2017
    On 17 Jan 17 18:39:54, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Ward Dossche:

    I haven't installed the latest version yet ... remodeling, refurbishin IKEA and taking a lot of crap to the dumpster.

    --- D'Bridge 3.99

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Tue Jan 17 19:40:05 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-17 13:01:52, Nick Andre wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:
    about: "Re: %HELP ?":

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
    get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?

    I'm not the the author. As you are not the author of dBridge... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Tue Jan 17 14:40:12 2017
    On 2017 Jan 17 13:01:52, you wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
    get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?

    because not all areafixes are the same...

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix that i have
    to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic, vfido, bbbs, mbse... i'm sure there are others... why do i have to work with them when i have one main feed? because they are downlinks and i keep asking for them to set no archiver for my system... some can and some cannot... some don't even offer the option in the areafix... it is a real crapshoot at times...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... If you want your boomerang to come back, throw it first...!
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 01:51:27 2017

    Wilfred,

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still get
    the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Latest Alpha version installed.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier -- Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Mark Lewis on Tue Jan 17 18:56:55 2017

    because not all areafixes are the same...

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix that
    i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of the
    ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic,
    vfido, bbbs, mbse... i'm sure there are others... why do i have to work with them when i have one main feed? because they are downlinks and i
    keep asking for them to set no archiver for my system... some can and
    some cannot... some don't even offer the option in the areafix... it is a real crapshoot at times...

    The standard is....there is no standard.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Mark Hofmann on Wed Jan 18 09:00:51 2017
    Hi Mark,

    On 2017-01-17 18:56:55, you wrote to Mark Lewis:

    because not all areafixes are the same...

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
    that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of
    the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic,
    vfido, bbbs, mbse... i'm sure there are others... why do i have to work
    with them when i have one main feed? because they are downlinks and i
    keep asking for them to set no archiver for my system... some can and
    some cannot... some don't even offer the option in the areafix... it is
    a real crapshoot at times...

    The standard is....there is no standard.

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Ward Dossche on Wed Jan 18 09:42:49 2017
    Hi Ward,

    On 2017-01-18 01:51:27, you wrote to me:

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
    get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Latest Alpha version installed.

    Yes, I now get the informational message...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 09:49:21 2017
    Hi Nick,

    On 2017-01-17 11:09:35, you wrote to me:

    -R to RESCAN connected areas.

    Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.

    Atleast add a warning about that in the text...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 11:26:01 2017

    Wilfred,

    -R to RESCAN connected areas.

    Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
    other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.

    I think only those messages are scanned/added which do not yet contain the nodenumber of the requester in the seen-by.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier -- Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Ward Dossche on Wed Jan 18 11:44:37 2017
    Hi Ward,

    On 2017-01-18 11:26:01, you wrote to me:

    -R to RESCAN connected areas.

    Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
    other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.

    I think only those messages are scanned/added which do not yet contain the nodenumber of the requester in the seen-by.

    That doesn't necessarily prevent a massive dupe dump...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 07:37:33 2017
    On 17 Jan 17 19:40:05, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
    get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?

    I'm not the the author. As you are not the author of dBridge... ;)

    You're right, can you teach me how to program tosser code?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 13:52:36 2017
    Hi Nick,

    On 2017-01-18 07:37:33, you wrote to me:

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I
    still
    get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your
    AreaFix...

    Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?

    I'm not the the author. As you are not the author of dBridge... ;)

    You're right, can you teach me how to program tosser code?

    Sure, I'm for hire. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mark Lewis on Wed Jan 18 10:22:34 2017
    On 17 Jan 17 14:40:12, Mark Lewis said the following to Nick Andre:

    I just tested this (before reading this reply), and indeed, I still
    get the same (none) response when I send a %HELP to your AreaFix...

    Why would the author of Fmail need help with Areafix?

    because not all areafixes are the same...

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail, mystic, vfido, bbbs,

    Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre ranting.

    How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to collect different "help" screens? WTF?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 10:26:25 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 09:00:51, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Mark Hofmann:

    The standard is....there is no standard.

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    Its not standard, and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.

    There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this proposal.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 17:41:36 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-18 10:22:34, Nick Andre wrote to Mark Lewis:
    about: "Re: %HELP ?":

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
    that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some
    of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail,
    mystic, vfido, bbbs,

    Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre ranting.

    How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to collect different "help" screens? WTF?

    I don't think that's so bizarre. I'm doing it too. The basic functions (adding and removing areas) are simpel and almost everywhere the same. But when you are
    doing something less common, like for instance rescanning, the syntax is often different. And I don't want to wait (sometimes) hours, before you get a reply to your %HELP. It's quite easy to save the reply message to a %HELP once you got it for a later time when you "need" it...

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 17:48:07 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-18 10:26:25, Nick Andre wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:
    about: "Re: %HELP ?":

    The standard is....there is no standard.

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    Its not standard,

    I know, it's a proposal...

    and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I
    believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.

    I have this one saved:

    AreaFix v1.30 User Guide
    originally by Jeffrey J. Nonken

    That's used by Bjorn. He called it the original AreaFix. It works about the same as d'Bridge with options (like -R -L and -Q) on the command line after the
    password.

    There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this
    proposal.

    I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system, so I don't know the details. But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or less to the method described in the fsc proposal.

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 12:26:01 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 17:41:36, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to colle different "help" screens? WTF?

    I don't think that's so bizarre. I'm doing it too. The basic functions (add and removing areas) are simpel and almost everywhere the same. But when you are doing something less common, like for instance rescanning, the syntax i often different. And I don't want to wait (sometimes) hours, before you get reply to your %HELP. It's quite easy to save the reply message to a %HELP o you got it for a later time when you "need" it...

    What else is "less common" besides rescanning? What, changing compression? Changing passwords? How often does any of that need to be done? Those are not exactly regular requests nor are they the typical norm for a downlink. :)

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 12:28:52 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 17:48:07, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.

    I have this one saved:

    AreaFix v1.30 User Guide
    originally by Jeffrey J. Nonken

    That's used by Bjorn. He called it the original AreaFix. It works about the same as d'Bridge with options (like -R -L and -Q) on the command line after the password.

    I don't have specific version info but Greg Dawson was credited for Areafix in D'Bridge, circa 1989, and the -R -L and -Q was also used in TBBS/Flame; at one time used by many major Hubs in Zone 1 in the 90's.

    There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this proposal.

    I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system, so I don't know the details. But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or less to the method described in the fsc proposal.

    See above,

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 12:45:23 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 09:49:21, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    -R to RESCAN connected areas.

    Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.

    Wrong, and not any more dangerous than any other tosser that has Rescan.

    A tosser has an area called ABC. There are three downlinks. 229/100, 229/200 and 229/300. A new system, 229/400 joins and Areafixes ABC with a rescan. They get all the messages but 100, 200 and 300 do not because they exist in the Seen-by's in all the messages that exist already, and thus 229/400 is added into the Seen-by's/Path going forward.

    The method used is no different than Gecho, TBBS/Flame and a lot of tossers out there... pretty sure even Fastecho does it this way but perhaps adds some extra kludging to indicate that the message was in fact, rescanned.

    You know very well that there is no fool-proof way for a tosser to offer a Rescan feature, because some Sysop, somewhere, somehow, will find a way to break it or configure things in a way not intended, and we get "dupe-dumps".

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Rudi Timmermans@2:292/140 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 19:54:14 2017
    Hi Wilfred,

    I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system, so I don't know the details. But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or less to the method described in the fsc proposal.

    BBBS dont have a rescan option.

    Rudi

    --- BBBS/LiR v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: WebBBS: www.xtreme.dynv6.net:8080 (2:292/140)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 19:30:39 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-18 12:45:23, Nick Andre wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:
    about: "Re: %HELP ?":

    -R to RESCAN connected areas.

    Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
    other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.

    Wrong, and not any more dangerous than any other tosser that has Rescan.

    A tosser has an area called ABC. There are three downlinks. 229/100, 229/200 and 229/300. A new system, 229/400 joins and Areafixes ABC with a rescan. They get all the messages but 100, 200 and 300 do not because they exist in the Seen-by's in all the messages that exist already, and thus 229/400 is added into the Seen-by's/Path going forward.

    In that case there won't be too much danger. But your thinking too much about the fidonet structure of the 80's and 90's. The new node that does the rescanning today, is likely to have a few other links outside the net and/or zone, that won't be in the seenby's.

    The method used is no different than Gecho, TBBS/Flame and a lot of tossers out there... pretty sure even Fastecho does it this way but perhaps adds some extra kludging to indicate that the message was in
    fact, rescanned.

    The danger of the d'Bridge rescan is that it does a full rescan of all connected area's. Most tossers have commands to just rescan newly added areas, or just rescan a single area, and limit the number or date range of messages. For instance fastecho has the following commands regarding rescanning:

    %RESCAN <- Rescan following area(s) and add if area(s)
    FASTECHO.GER is/are not linked yet

    %DAYS 7 <- Rescan only messages not older than 7 days
    SHAREWRE

    %MSGS 100 <- Rescan at most 100 messages each area
    FE_HELP

    FDECHO, R <- Alternative way to rescan a single area
    FDECHO.GER, R=300 <- Rescan up to 300 messages of that area


    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 16:22:35 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 19:30:39, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    The danger of the d'Bridge rescan is that it does a full rescan of all connected area's. Most tossers have commands to just rescan newly added are or just rescan a single area, and limit the number or date range of message

    The code in Areafix actually only rescans upon a first-connection, not subsequent or further rescan-requests; therefore logically it cannot rescan "all" areas; unless specifically instructed to do so.

    And there is a rescan limit I programmed. Its been there for quite some time.

    I'm not quite sure where you're getting your facts from, but you're wrong.

    Any other things you would like me to debunk for you?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 22:33:22 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-18 16:22:35, Nick Andre wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:
    about: "Re: %HELP ?":

    The danger of the d'Bridge rescan is that it does a full rescan of
    all
    connected area's. Most tossers have commands to just rescan newly added
    are or just rescan a single area, and limit the number or date range of
    message

    The code in Areafix actually only rescans upon a first-connection, not subsequent or further rescan-requests; therefore logically it cannot
    rescan
    "all" areas; unless specifically instructed to do so.

    And there is a rescan limit I programmed. Its been there for quite some time.

    I'm not quite sure where you're getting your facts from, but you're wrong.

    The output of the %HELP says: "-R to RESCAN connected areas."

    It doesn't say: "-R to RESCAN to be connected areas."

    And there is no mention of a limit...

    Any other things you would like me to debunk for you?

    Does renegade cut the quoted sentences short? I'm missing some letters at the end of your quoted lines.

    And I'm missing the reply kludge in your message. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.64-B20170112
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Wilfred Van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 17:08:06 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 22:33:22, Wilfred Van Velzen said the following to Nick Andre:

    And there is no mention of a limit...

    Purposely not revealed.

    Any other things you would like me to debunk for you?

    Does renegade cut the quoted sentences short? I'm missing some letters at t end of your quoted lines.

    And I'm missing the reply kludge in your message. ;)

    Thats Renegade, not D'Bridge...

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 20:01:34 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 10:22:34, you wrote to me:

    because not all areafixes are the same...

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
    that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some
    of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail,
    mystic, vfido, bbbs,

    Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre ranting.

    nope... no ranting at all... pure and simple fact from first hand experiances...

    How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to
    collect different "help" screens? WTF?

    ok... what does this do on a BBBS system?

    ^foo*

    or maybe this from another system?

    bassoom
    rescan
    msgs 150
    foo*

    is your horizon limited like others' horizons are?

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Chile Sauce - Ketchup with an attitude.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 20:06:06 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 10:26:24, you wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:

    The standard is....there is no standard.

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    Its not standard,

    agreed... but the document is a proposal that covers many areafix interfaces...

    and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I
    believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.

    and yet i'm "ranting" because i mentioned that i collect areafix help texts?

    There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this
    proposal.

    agreed, there, too...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 20:08:26 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 17:41:36, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    personally speaking, i try to have a complete help for each areafix
    that i have to work with... sadly that's not always possible... some
    of the ones i have to work with are hpt, fastecho, dbridge, fmail,
    mystic, vfido, bbbs,

    Oh c'mon now... now you're regressing back to your nonsense bizarre
    ranting.

    How freaking difficult is it for you to use Areafix? You need to
    collect different "help" screens? WTF?

    I don't think that's so bizarre. I'm doing it too. The basic functions (adding and removing areas) are simpel and almost everywhere the same.

    thank you...

    But when you are doing something less common, like for instance rescanning, the syntax is often different. And I don't want to wait (sometimes) hours, before you get a reply to your %HELP.

    this actually depends on the remote system's mail tossing schedule... if you were linked here, you'd wait up to an hour in 99% of the cases... why? because i process mail once an hour to save wear and tear on the system...

    It's quite easy to save the reply message to a %HELP once you got it
    for a later time when you "need" it...

    there is that and it only works for those systems that even send such back... some do and some do not... heck, i've installed numerous tossers over the years
    so i could find and save out their areafix.hlp file only to not find one at all... some were hardcoded with such and others didn't have one at all do downlinks had to ask the sysop what the commands were, if they even knew, or they had to ask the sysop to add and remove areas or even to rescan some if that was an option...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Pudding is historic.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Jan 18 20:13:46 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 17:48:06, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    and D'Bridge was published at a time before this was proposed. I
    believe Greg Dawson designed the original specification.

    I have this one saved:

    AreaFix v1.30 User Guide
    originally by Jeffrey J. Nonken

    That's used by Bjorn. He called it the original AreaFix.

    it was that at one time areafix was a separate program from the tosser and relied on the tosser's comfig files to perform its job... then some tosser authors integrated areafix directly into their programs...

    It works about the same as d'Bridge with options (like -R -L and -Q)
    on the command line after the password.

    yup.. that's the really old-school way and it is quite limited as well...

    There are quite a few legacy tossers that do not conform to this
    proposal.

    I know BBBS is a bit different, but I have no link with a BBBS system,
    so I don't know the details.

    BBBS uses a regex format and it does both file and message areas all in one... there is a way to do only messages or only file areas but just a plain

    +foo

    or such can easily result in you getting file areas (TICs) you weren't looking for...

    But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or
    less to the method described in the fsc proposal.

    such as it is, it is a good attempt... hopefully it won't be used like other proposals and standards to try to beat others into some sort of submission...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... No, of course I don't mind telling you how to go to hell.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Wed Jan 18 20:20:34 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 12:45:22, you wrote to Wilfred Van Velzen:

    Isn't that a very dangerous option? It's only save for nodes with no
    other links, otherwise a massive dupe dump would be generated.

    Wrong, and not any more dangerous than any other tosser that has Rescan.

    agreed...

    A tosser has an area called ABC. There are three downlinks. 229/100, 229/200 and 229/300. A new system, 229/400 joins and Areafixes ABC
    with a rescan. They get all the messages but 100, 200 and 300 do not because they exist in the Seen-by's in all the messages that exist already, and thus 229/400 is added into the Seen-by's/Path going
    forward.

    so what happens when 229/400 joins and is also connected to /100, /200 and /300
    when they do the rescan? i thinkg that's the point that wilfred was trying to make but he was making it from the POV of a fidoweb system that is connected to
    more than one system for the same area without the entire distribution being fully connected to all other systems in the fidoweb...

    The method used is no different than Gecho, TBBS/Flame and a lot of tossers out there... pretty sure even Fastecho does it this way but perhaps adds some extra kludging to indicate that the message was in
    fact, rescanned.

    yup...

    You know very well that there is no fool-proof way for a tosser to
    offer a Rescan feature, because some Sysop, somewhere, somehow, will
    find a way to break it or configure things in a way not intended, and
    we get "dupe-dumps".

    exactly... yet we have others working on ""hidden"" agendas trying to change the entire methodology of FTN mail distribution to fit their non-standard way of interconnections...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Any fool can paint a picture; it takes a wise person to sell it.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mark Lewis on Wed Jan 18 21:43:38 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 20:01:34, Mark Lewis said the following to Nick Andre:

    ok... what does this do on a BBBS system?

    ^foo*

    You mean Brobocop? Adds all areas beginning with FOO.

    is your horizon limited like others' horizons are?

    I just published a D'bridge update, my horizon is as clear as day.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mark Lewis on Wed Jan 18 22:01:06 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 20:06:06, Mark Lewis said the following to Nick Andre:

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    Its not standard,

    agreed... but the document is a proposal that covers many areafix interface

    That very well may be true, but for every person new to D'Bridge that expects the same "advanced" functionality in Areafix as lets say, Fastecho, and complains to me that D'Bridge is not in line with a "standard", I always ask
    to have the standard quoted back to me. Now cue to the crickets chirping.

    That is why you have an obsessive need to collect the various "help" screens from many Areafix systems, because none of them with advanced
    functionality collectively follow a published standard set of commands.
    Percent commands, reg-ex, wildcards, etc. Its a bit of a mess... and overall I just find it a logical waste of time when basic commands suffice.

    The Areafix code in D'Bridge was written heavily around what was "standard" for Areafix at the time... 1989. Add areas, remove areas. List and query. Thats it. Chris coded "ALL" and "-ALL" but thats really it for wildcards.

    Adding percent-commands and the like means I have to rewrite the whole Areafix code... which has worked since 1989. Takes hours, maybe days... loyal D'Bridge fans begin to worry that I may break it and then we're back to "D'Broke".

    Which is why I find it rediculous that I should write a full-blown Areafix to cator to some obscure functionality like I explained to Wilfred - Changing packet compression, passwords. How often does that realistically happen for a particular downlink? Remember Mark, I run a very busy Fido hub so I know what typical downlinks use and what they don't use. Those that aren't typical end up contacting me and we have some good silly banter back and forth... thats a more rewarding experience for me than studying help-screens.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Mark Lewis on Wed Jan 18 22:28:22 2017
    On 18 Jan 17 20:20:34, Mark Lewis said the following to Nick Andre:

    so what happens when 229/400 joins and is also connected to /100, /200 and /300 when they do the rescan? i thinkg that's the point that wilfred was trying to make but he was making it from the POV of a fidoweb system that i connected to more than one system for the same area without the entire distribution being fully connected to all other systems in the fidoweb...

    Illogical. If 229/400 was already connected to 100, 200 and 300 for ABC echo, then 400 was already receiving messages from them, so a rescan would only produce duplicates, which would be caught and zapped provided all four have properly configured systems and/or four Sysops who can keep their fingers off a configuration when it "just works". Can all four do it? Maybe not...

    Unless I'm hitting a language-barrier with Wilfred, I'm getting the impression its all doom-and-gloom because D'Bridge allows rescans and uses SEEN-BY checking to determine a rescan or not. It reads as if this software is being singled out and not Gecho, TBBS, Fastecho or others *that do it the same way*

    D'Bridge is not everyone's cup of tea, but I refuse to have someone proclaim the sky is falling after drinking my tea... My teas are not THAT potent.

    exactly... yet we have others working on ""hidden"" agendas trying to chang the entire methodology of FTN mail distribution to fit their non-standard w of interconnections...

    My agenda is to run a reliable uncensored mail Hub until either I or the equipment expires, and I don't give a jack-crap about other agendas or politics. Many people use my services and DB in both NAB and Fidoweb topologies. I am personally trusted by many Sysops for this and other reasons.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Mark Hofmann on Thu Jan 19 05:21:16 2017
    Hello Mark!

    17 Jan 2017 18:56, Mark Hofmann wrote to Mark Lewis:

    The standard is....there is no standard.

    some makes there own problems :=)

    or solutions


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.9.3-gentoo (i686))
    * Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Jan 19 05:22:52 2017
    Hello Wilfred!

    18 Jan 2017 09:00, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Mark Hofmann:

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    such dokument is only for humans, not for outdated areafixers without ocr scanning, but if 2 or more areafix/filefix not understanding commands then systems cant work together on solve comands to keep things in sync, that leads to manuel proccessing for most sysops where it was not needed if coded to same fsc specs

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    often less


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.9.3-gentoo (i686))
    * Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Jan 19 05:27:00 2017
    Hello Wilfred!

    18 Jan 2017 11:44, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Ward Dossche:

    That doesn't necessarily prevent a massive dupe dump...

    and dupe checkers works then


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/4.9.3-gentoo (i686))
    * Origin: openvpn on its way here (2:230/0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Thu Jan 19 11:42:06 2017
    Hi mark,

    On 2017-01-18 20:13:46, you wrote to me:

    But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or
    less to the method described in the fsc proposal.

    such as it is, it is a good attempt... hopefully it won't be used like other proposals and standards to try to beat others into some sort of submission...

    Well, developers have to decide for themselfs, but I think it would be a good thing if they followed this proposal, if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.65-B20170117
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Mark Hofmann@1:261/1304 to Nick Andre on Thu Jan 19 02:35:21 2017
    What else is "less common" besides rescanning? What, changing
    compression? Changing passwords? How often does any of that need to be done? Those are not
    exactly regular requests nor are they the typical norm for a downlink. :)

    One I can think of is requesting all echos. I remember using +ALL in the past to do this, but not all use this method.

    I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and didn't know the
    syntax to subscribe to all echos.

    - Mark

    --- WWIVToss v.1.52
    * Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Fri Jan 20 09:00:06 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 21:43:38, you wrote to me:

    ok... what does this do on a BBBS system?

    ^foo*

    You mean Brobocop? Adds all areas beginning with FOO.

    yup... what does it do on dbridge, fastecho, fmail and similar systems? that's the catch and why some of us collect areafix help texts...

    is your horizon limited like others' horizons are?

    I just published a D'bridge update, my horizon is as clear as day.

    :) :) :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Am I hallucinating or something??
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Fri Jan 20 09:01:24 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 22:01:06, you wrote to me:

    There is a proposal though: http://ftsc.org/docs/fsc-0057.003

    And a majority of tossers conform to this more or less...

    Its not standard,

    agreed... but the document is a proposal that covers many areafix
    interface

    That very well may be true, but for every person new to D'Bridge that expects the same "advanced" functionality in Areafix as lets say, Fastecho, and complains to me that D'Bridge is not in line with a "standard", I always ask to have the standard quoted back to me. Now
    cue to the crickets chirping.

    because it/they are using a defacto-standard and those folks didn't know that...

    That is why you have an obsessive need to collect the various "help"

    s/an obsessive need/a desire/

    screens from many Areafix systems, because none of them with advanced functionality collectively follow a published standard set of
    commands. Percent commands, reg-ex, wildcards, etc. Its a bit of a
    mess... and overall I just find it a logical waste of time when basic commands suffice.

    "good enough is never good enough"...

    The Areafix code in D'Bridge was written heavily around what was "standard" for Areafix at the time... 1989. Add areas, remove areas.
    List and query. Thats it. Chris coded "ALL" and "-ALL" but thats
    really it for wildcards.

    yup...

    Adding percent-commands and the like means I have to rewrite the whole Areafix code... which has worked since 1989. Takes hours, maybe
    days... loyal D'Bridge fans begin to worry that I may break it and
    then we're back to "D'Broke".

    meh, what's in a name?

    Which is why I find it rediculous that I should write a full-blown
    Areafix to cator to some obscure functionality like I explained to
    Wilfred - Changing packet compression, passwords. How often does that realistically happen for a particular downlink? Remember Mark, I run a very busy Fido hub so I know what typical downlinks use and what they don't use. Those that aren't typical end up contacting me and we have
    some good silly banter back and forth... thats a more rewarding
    experience for me than studying help-screens.

    have you ever thought that folks pulling from your feed simply don't bother to ask or make similar comments because of statements like the above and they don't want to end up in a bull fight or singing pig argument? it happens more than folks think...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nick Andre on Fri Jan 20 09:06:58 2017

    On 2017 Jan 18 22:28:22, you wrote to me:

    so what happens when 229/400 joins and is also connected to /100,
    /200 and /300 when they do the rescan? i thinkg that's the point that
    wilfred was trying to make but he was making it from the POV of a
    fidoweb system that i connected to more than one system for the same
    area without the entire distribution being fully connected to all
    other systems in the fidoweb...

    Illogical.

    it is not illogical... it is the *FIDOWEB*... plus that /400 may be joined only
    to /100 and /300 which will transit dupes galore from /400 to /200...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... He come from a land down-under, Where beer does flow and men chunder.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 20 09:18:18 2017

    On 2017 Jan 19 11:42:06, you wrote to me:

    But besides those above I don't know any that don't conform more or
    less to the method described in the fsc proposal.

    such as it is, it is a good attempt... hopefully it won't be used
    like other proposals and standards to try to beat others into some
    sort of submission...

    Well, developers have to decide for themselfs,

    they can easily decide for themselves...

    but I think it would be a good thing if they followed this proposal,

    as i said, it is a good attempt... if i were working on an areafix system, i doubt that i would follow the document completely, though... that would certainly be noted in the docs before someone came along screaming about following the standard completely when they don't even know if the standard (or
    proposal) was even consulted in the first place... that's why program documentation proudly states things like "This program implements and adheres to FTS-xxxx, FSP-yyyy, and foobar-zzzz"...

    if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...

    somehow i don't know that nick is working on new functionality for db's areafix
    ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Eating chicken makes you stupid. - American Beef Association.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Mark Hofmann on Fri Jan 20 09:12:38 2017

    On 2017 Jan 19 02:35:20, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and didn't know the syntax to subscribe to all echos.

    the worst part is for hpt operators to even find the help text so they can make
    it available for their links... i hunted and hunted for it... finally found it after two or three days... it really is a GoodThing<tm> when areafix help texts
    are simple text files that can be referenced when needed instead of being hardcoded into the programs...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... "Kung Ho Hsin Hsi. Ching Chi Shen Tan." - Chinese-Mandarin Christmas
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to mark lewis on Fri Jan 20 17:18:15 2017
    Hi,

    On 2017-01-20 09:18:18, mark lewis wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:
    about: "%HELP ?":

    if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...

    somehow i don't know that nick is working on new functionality for db's areafix ;)

    His latest version responds to a %HELP, where it didn't before. I don't know if
    that is because the command is recognised, or if the line isn't recognised as a
    local area, and it responds with a help text... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.


    --- FMail-W32 1.73.12.66-B20170119
    * Origin: Native IPv6 connectable node (2:280/464)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Fri Jan 20 10:45:58 2017
    Hello mark,

    On Fri Jan 20 2017 09:12:38, mark lewis wrote to Mark Hofmann:

    I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and
    didn't know the syntax to subscribe to all echos.

    the worst part is for hpt operators to even find the help text so they
    can make it available for their links... i hunted and hunted for it... finally found it after two or three days... it really is a
    GoodThing<tm> when areafix help texts are simple text files that can
    be referenced when needed instead of being hardcoded into the
    programs...

    I think he was referring to the fact that you use wildcards in your *fix requests for the Husky tools (ie: [+]*/-* to subscribe to all echos available, rather than D'Bridge and SBBSecho using [+]ALL/-ALL). Both ways probably match other software, but since Mark was used to DB and possibly SBBSecho, it was a different scenario for him specifically.

    If it took you two or three days to search for and find the "misc" directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root directory, then I suspect PEBCAK
    rather than the program itself. Where would you expect it to be otherwise?

    And now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the DBRIDGE echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest update. I'd call that a success!

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 20 12:26:48 2017
    On 2017 Jan 20 17:18:14, you wrote to me:

    if they are working on new functionality for their tossers AreaFix...

    somehow i don't know that nick is working on new functionality for
    db's areafix ;)

    His latest version responds to a %HELP, where it didn't before. I
    don't know if that is because the command is recognised, or if the
    line isn't recognised as a local area, and it responds with a help
    text... ;)

    hahaha... seems to me that that is a new option not new functionality ;)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... I often say that the American people aren't ready for self-government.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Fri Jan 20 16:21:36 2017

    On 2017 Jan 20 10:45:58, you wrote to me:

    I had never been connected to an hpt system until recently, and
    didn't know the syntax to subscribe to all echos.

    the worst part is for hpt operators to even find the help text so
    they can make it available for their links... i hunted and hunted for
    it... finally found it after two or three days... it really is a
    GoodThing<tm> when areafix help texts are simple text files that can
    be referenced when needed instead of being hardcoded into the
    programs...

    I think he was referring to the fact that you use wildcards in your
    *fix requests for the Husky tools (ie: [+]*/-* to subscribe to all
    echos available, rather than D'Bridge and SBBSecho using [+]ALL/-ALL). Both ways probably match other software, but since Mark was used to DB
    and possibly SBBSecho, it was a different scenario for him
    specifically.

    he might have been... i was just pointing out that by default, at least on linux systems when building from the sources, the areafix help is hard to find...

    If it took you two or three days to search for and find the "misc" directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root directory,

    why would i look in there? it isn't a misc file... a document or config file, sure but not misc...

    then I suspect PEBCAK rather than the program itself. Where would you expect it to be otherwise?

    after running make install i would expect to find it installed along with the binaries and sample configs... but that's not what happened for either of the help files or the sample configs... i had to find a way to generate a config file to even get started... in that case i found and used fidoInst by Zano and butchered that config into my working copy...

    And now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the DBRIDGE
    echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest update. I'd call that
    a success!

    it is a success... no one is disputing that :)

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Deja Stew: leftovers.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/10 to mark lewis on Sat Jan 21 07:34:38 2017
    Hello mark,

    On Fri Jan 20 2017 16:21:36, mark lewis wrote to Nicholas Boel:

    If it took you two or three days to search for and find the
    "misc" directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root
    directory,

    why would i look in there? it isn't a misc file... a document or
    config file, sure but not misc...

    Sysop documentation happens to be in the "doc" subdirectory. Configuration files happen to be in the "config" subdirectory. And since you've already gone through both of those after install, why not check out the "misc" directory? I would definitely consider areafix.hlp/filefix.hlp a miscellaneous file. It's not sysop documentation so I wouldn't put it with the other sysop documentation
    in the "doc" directory, it's a document for the user, to be placed wherever you
    want it to be, hence a "misc" file.

    And if I remember right, you have to actually specify the location of the areafix.hlp/filefix.hlp in your robots sections in the main fidoconfig file, which means it's not hardcoded and can be located anywhere, hence the miscellaneous part. *shrug*

    then I suspect PEBCAK rather than the program itself. Where would
    you expect it to be otherwise?

    after running make install i would expect to find it installed along
    with the binaries and sample configs... but that's not what happened
    for either of the help files or the sample configs... i had to find a
    way to generate a config file to even get started... in that case i
    found and used fidoInst by Zano and butchered that config into my
    working copy...

    I can agree with the config files. After 'make install' some default templates should probably be put into a proper place, since the config directory is specified in huskymak.cfg for a reason. But this doesn't happen.

    The code is freely available to do whatever you want with it, though.

    And now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the
    DBRIDGE echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for
    users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest
    update. I'd call that a success!

    it is a success... no one is disputing that :)

    Instead of pointing that out, the first things mentioned after the fact was what DB's areafix was lacking compared to other tosser's areafixes. Nick has already stated he's not going to add in all the fluff that other tossers have added in over the years, so why beat a dead horse?

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20161221
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Nicholas Boel on Sat Jan 21 09:24:42 2017

    On 2017 Jan 21 07:34:38, you wrote to me:

    If it took you two or three days to search for and find the "misc"
    directory under HPT's (and HTICK's for that matter) root directory,

    why would i look in there? it isn't a misc file... a document or
    config file, sure but not misc...

    Sysop documentation happens to be in the "doc" subdirectory.
    Configuration files happen to be in the "config" subdirectory. And
    since you've already gone through both of those after install,

    i did not... i didn't go through them until i went looking for the areafix help
    file...

    why not check out the "misc" directory? I would definitely consider areafix.hlp/filefix.hlp a miscellaneous file. It's not sysop
    documentation so I wouldn't put it with the other sysop documentation
    in the "doc" directory, it's a document for the user, to be placed wherever you want it to be, hence a "misc" file.

    i consider the help files to be documentation because they are the documentation for the remote systems to use when requesting help for areafix and filefix...

    And if I remember right, you have to actually specify the location of
    the areafix.hlp/filefix.hlp in your robots sections in the main
    fidoconfig file, which means it's not hardcoded and can be located anywhere, hence the miscellaneous part. *shrug*

    i think there is that but if make install places the sample configs then it can
    also place the help files *shrug*

    then I suspect PEBCAK rather than the program itself. Where would
    you expect it to be otherwise?

    after running make install i would expect to find it installed along
    with the binaries and sample configs... but that's not what happened
    for either of the help files or the sample configs... i had to find a
    way to generate a config file to even get started... in that case i
    found and used fidoInst by Zano and butchered that config into my
    working copy...

    I can agree with the config files. After 'make install' some default templates should probably be put into a proper place, since the config directory is specified in huskymak.cfg for a reason. But this doesn't happen.

    The code is freely available to do whatever you want with it, though.

    you and i are a lot alike in many respects, nick... like you, i'm not a 'make' or 'c' guru...

    And now to try to bring us back to the original topic in the
    DBRIDGE echo, It was requested that DB have a help screen for
    users trying to access Areafix, and now it does as of the latest
    update. I'd call that a success!

    it is a success... no one is disputing that :)

    Instead of pointing that out, the first things mentioned after the fact
    was
    what DB's areafix was lacking compared to other tosser's areafixes. Nick has already stated he's not going to add in all the fluff that other tossers have added in over the years, so why beat a dead horse?

    i didn't do that pointing... someone else did so don't include me in it...

    )\/(ark

    Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
    Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
    ... Catatonic - Italian beverage most preferred by cats
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)