• Da Rulz

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to ALL on Thu May 19 21:52:39 2022
    Hello Everybody,

    Rules of the CONSPRCY echo

    Any student of CONSPRCY should already know the
    Rules by heart. There are two Rules of CONSPRCY.
    They are:

    1. There are no Rules.

    2. See Rule number 1.

    If anyone ever tells you that there is a certain
    formula for CONSPRCY or a definite method of engaging
    in CONSPRCY, then that person does not know about
    CONSPRCY. In that case, just assume that he/she/it
    does not know what he/she/it is talking about.

    Lee Lofaso
    Moderator
    CONSPRCY echo
    2013-05-03

    --
    Everybody Loves Our Buns

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From George Pope@1:153/757 to Lee Lofaso on Tue Jun 14 23:11:36 2022
    Hello Everybody,
    Rules of the CONSPRCY echo
    Any student of CONSPRCY should already know the
    Rules by heart. There are two Rules of CONSPRCY.
    They are:
    1. There are no Rules.
    2. See Rule number 1.

    Nice. Being as most of the bigger conspiracy generators protect themselves by imposing rules on us all, to keep us from finding out what we need to know &/or acting on it.

    I'm all for ripping to shreds anything & everything that smacks of imposed from on-high BS.

    Thanks for the echo & the easy to understand rules.

    I had a set of rules in another network, years ago,. for an echo I had: 1. Be nice.
    2. Nice is good.

    One member went over my head to mt feed to complain about content I'd posted. They received their one & only warning from that & behaved ever since! Because I'm nice.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Jan 8 09:25:34 2023
    1. There are no Rules.

    2. See Rule number 1.

    If anyone ever tells you that there is a certain
    formula for CONSPRCY or a definite method of engaging
    in CONSPRCY, then that person does not know about
    CONSPRCY. In that case, just assume that he/she/it
    does not know what he/she/it is talking about.
    well ok, here try this on for size and comfort.


    Lee Lofaso
    Moderator
    CONSPRCY echo
    2013-05-03
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
    Not sure if this fits as a bona-fide conspiracy are not?
    Aren't you in the U.S. 'down in the bayou' last I knew.
    A swampy kinda of place; Twin to the Planet Dagobah as seen in Star Wars.

    If that is true, then why is your origin coming out of Zone 2?
    Is this because you do not have a node in Zone 1?

    "There ain't a side of tracks more wrong than under 'em"
    Augustus Sinclair

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
    _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Mon Jan 9 15:28:41 2023
    Hello Greg,

    1. There are no Rules.

    2. See Rule number 1.

    If anyone ever tells you that there is a certain
    formula for CONSPRCY or a definite method of engaging
    in CONSPRCY, then that person does not know about
    CONSPRCY. In that case, just assume that he/she/it
    does not know what he/she/it is talking about.

    well ok, here try this on for size and comfort.

    You don't understand.

    Size is everything.

    Louisiana is more like a banana republic than a real country.
    And Cajuns were here first. Before there ever was a USA.

    Lee Lofaso
    Moderator
    CONSPRCY echo
    2013-05-03
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

    Not sure if this fits as a bona-fide conspiracy are not?

    My grandfather was from Sicily. He got here when he was an
    itty bitty baby. Had to have somebody carry him everywhere he
    went. At least until he was old enough to walk.

    That was hard on my great-grandfather, who never drove
    a car in his life. And my great-grandmother had other kids
    to see about, as she also had to do a lot of walking.

    What that means is that I can become a citizen of Italy
    simply by showing up in that country and signing a few papers.
    I can probably do that from here, but have not looked up any
    details on that subject.

    Of course, I would have to learn a whole new language upon
    arrival, and not quite sure if my old brain is up to that.

    Aren't you in the U.S. 'down in the bayou' last I knew.
    A swampy kinda of place; Twin to the Planet Dagobah as seen in Star Wars.

    How to give directions in Cajun French.
    From the point of where you are located -
    * up the bayou - to the north of where you are
    * down the bayou - to the south of where you are

    Hank Williams found it all - on the bayou.

    If that is true, then why is your origin coming out of Zone 2?
    Is this because you do not have a node in Zone 1?

    What does it matter where one's origin happens to be?
    Fidonet began with nothing more than a handful of friends
    in a local area. The idea of zones did not come about until
    much later, when Tom Jennings decided it was a good idea -
    without stating any known reason as to why.

    Everybody owns a node. Even if they don't show it.

    A sysop is one who operates a system.
    All sysops own a node.
    The only criteria to become a Fidonet sysop is to demonstrate
    the ability to send and receive netmail.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Food for the Fun of It

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Jan 12 10:56:59 2023
    On 09 Jan 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    What does it matter where one's origin happens to be?
    Fidonet began with nothing more than a handful of friends
    in a local area. The idea of zones did not come about until
    much later, when Tom Jennings decided it was a good idea -
    without stating any known reason as to why.
    It's no mystery.
    Check out Jason Scott's BBS Documentary Chapter 4 covering Fidonet on youtube As you see this you will then be aware that you have no idea of what your abt.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
    _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Sat Jan 14 05:23:04 2023
    Hello Greg,

    What does it matter where one's origin happens to be?
    Fidonet began with nothing more than a handful of friends
    in a local area. The idea of zones did not come about until
    much later, when Tom Jennings decided it was a good idea -
    without stating any known reason as to why.

    It's no mystery.

    Please feel free to invite Tom Jennings to this forum so he can
    answer the question himself.

    Check out Jason Scott's BBS Documentary Chapter 4 covering Fidonet on youtube
    As you see this you will then be aware that you have no idea of what your abt.

    Jason Scott is a technological historian. While his history of
    Fidonet is an excellent weblog, it does not address the issue under
    discussion - the idea of zones in Fidonet.

    No mention of zones was ever made until Tom Jennings brought it
    up for inclusion in Fidonet Policy 4.01 - with no explanation given
    as to why.

    So tell me. Why are zones necessary for Fidonet? A few years ago
    I brought up this very subject. There used to be six zones in Fidonet,
    and then it was decided by whatever powers that be that only four zones
    were needed. After that was done, another question was raised. Why not
    go to three zones? Oh, could not do that. Would have to change all the
    zone numbers and would be far too much trouble ...

    Bottom Line -

    There is no sound reason for having zones or zone numbers in Fidonet.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Jan 14 07:10:48 2023
    On 14 Jan 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    Hello Greg,

    Please feel free to invite Tom Jennings to this forum so he can
    answer the question himself.

    Check out Jason Scott's BBS Documentary Chapter 4 covering Fidonet on youtube
    As you see this you will then be aware that you have no idea of what abt.

    Jason Scott is a technological historian. While his history of
    Fidonet is an excellent weblog, it does not address the issue under discussion - the idea of zones in Fidonet.
    Weblog? It's a video documentary there are 8 chapters.
    Chapter 4 covers fidonet, it is available on youtube.com
    As the documentary states the zones within U.S. and North America
    were based on NCAA Basketball brackets.

    Ben Baker explains in the documentary that they tried to make it so these new zones (that they were carving out via a Map of the U.S.)
    They tried to make it to be equal population, proportional to each other.

    I find this history really interesting for many reasons as I am the fidonet
    hub here for all of New York State.


    No mention of zones was ever made until Tom Jennings brought it
    up for inclusion in Fidonet Policy 4.01 - with no explanation given
    as to why.

    So tell me. Why are zones necessary for Fidonet?
    before the -switchover- to fidonet, it was fido and this had a 250 node limit, as indicated by Ben Baker within the BBS documentary chapter 4 covering fidonet.

    A few years ago
    I brought up this very subject. There used to be six zones in Fidonet,
    and then it was decided by whatever powers that be that only four zones were needed. After that was done, another question was raised. Why not
    go to three zones? Oh, could not do that. Would have to change all the zone numbers and would be far too much trouble ...

    I have no what your talking about or where you get your information.


    Bottom Line -

    There is no sound reason for having zones or zone numbers in Fidonet.
    You are aware that Fidonet spans around the entire globe right, for this
    reason zones were and continue to be very much necessary.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
    _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Sat Jan 14 23:57:34 2023
    Hello Greg,

    [..]

    Jason Scott is a technological historian. While his history of
    Fidonet is an excellent weblog, it does not address the issue under
    discussion - the idea of zones in Fidonet.

    Weblog? It's a video documentary there are 8 chapters.

    Weblog is terminology for video documentary.
    All 8 chapters are online, free to watch.

    Chapter 4 covers fidonet, it is available on youtube.com
    As the documentary states the zones within U.S. and North America
    were based on NCAA Basketball brackets.

    There were no zones in Fidonet until Tom Jennings decided to have
    them included in Fidonet P4, without stating any rhyme or reason as
    to why they were needed.

    The NCAA Basketball brackets idea is total nonsense.

    John Wooden, the famous basketball coach who won an ungodly number
    of NCAA championships for UCLA, told the whole world the tournament
    was unfair and that every college team should be included, without
    exception. The NCAA tournament was invitation only, set at 8 teams
    the first time Wooden and UCLA won the tournament. Now it is set
    at 68 teams. Even though there is no reason as to why any team in
    the land should be excluded.

    Ben Baker explains in the documentary that they tried to make it so these new zones (that they were carving out via a Map of the U.S.)

    No mention of zones ever came up until Tom Jennings had them
    included in P4 - without stating any reason as to why any zones
    were needed or as to why he chose that particular number.

    They tried to make it to be equal population, proportional to each other.

    Bullshit. Tom Jennings could have cared less. Look at the populations
    of each of TJ's original six zones. Hardly equal at all. Not even the
    current structure of four zones have anything close to what one would
    call equal populations.

    Who wrote P4? Who signed it, claiming credit? Nobody. Who ratified P4?
    The only vote taken was by European sysops at a convention in Europe,
    who all voted unanimously against. IOW, not a single sysop anywhere in
    the world voted in favor of P4. So how can anybody say, or even suggest,
    that such a document has any validity?

    I find this history really interesting for many reasons as I am the fidonet
    hub here for all of New York State.

    It is good to find folks who remain interested in fidonet, and with
    luck others will join and make it even more fun for everyone to enjoy.

    No mention of zones was ever made until Tom Jennings brought it
    up for inclusion in Fidonet Policy 4.01 - with no explanation given
    as to why.

    So tell me. Why are zones necessary for Fidonet?

    before the -switchover- to fidonet, it was fido and this had a 250 node limit, as indicated by Ben Baker within the BBS documentary chapter 4 covering fidonet.

    Fidonet as acceptable terminology for entire history from day 1.
    There is no limit as to how many sysops there can be in any given
    zone, therefore there is no need for any zone. Same as there is
    no limit as to how many names there can be in a telephone directory.

    A few years ago
    I brought up this very subject. There used to be six zones in
    Fidonet,
    and then it was decided by whatever powers that be that only four
    zones
    were needed. After that was done, another question was raised. Why
    not
    go to three zones? Oh, could not do that. Would have to change all
    the
    zone numbers and would be far too much trouble ...

    I have no what your talking about or where you get your information.

    When Tom Jennings & Friends started playing around with Fidonet,
    there were no zones. And then, one day, Tom Jennings had a wild hair
    up his arse and decided Fidonet needed zones. Exactly six of them.
    So he told his minions to write up a document called P4 and have
    them include a rule to have six zones.

    And then, a few years later, after Tom Jennings had left the building,
    a group of sysops decided there was no need for six zones. Without ever
    asking whoever was in charge of those two zones what they thought of
    the idea. And so those two zones were dropped. Without a vote.

    Now there are four zones. But nobody knows why.

    Bottom Line -

    There is no sound reason for having zones or zone numbers in Fidonet.

    You are aware that Fidonet spans around the entire globe right, for this reason zones were and continue to be very much necessary.

    There are players from 45 different countries (plus the USA) who
    play in the NBA. Games are played in many different time zones,
    depending on location. But nobody is from any particular "zone"
    on this planet. The same can be said about the NFL. And MLB.

    Fidonet is a community of sysops (and non-sysops) from around the
    world. Not zones, or segments. It's about people. And communication.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Jan 14 21:29:08 2023
    On 14 Jan 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    Hello Greg,
    [..]

    When Tom Jennings & Friends started playing around with Fidonet,
    there were no zones. And then, one day, Tom Jennings had a wild hair
    up his arse and decided Fidonet needed zones. Exactly six of them.
    So he told his minions to write up a document called P4 and have
    them include a rule to have six zones.

    I really think you would learn a great deal by simply watching the BBS Documentary Chapter 4 covering Fidonet. It's on youtube.
    Instead of calling things BS of which you have, which ARE already a part of Fidonet history. Stop being a dork, your just embarrassing.
    Watch the video and learn something in the process. Then we can follow up.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
    _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Jan 16 21:20:18 2023
    On 14 Jan 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    Hello Greg,

    [..]

    Jason Scott is a technological historian. While his history of
    Fidonet is an excellent weblog, it does not address the issue under
    discussion - the idea of zones in Fidonet.

    Weblog? It's a video documentary there are 8 chapters.

    Weblog is terminology for video documentary.
    All 8 chapters are online, free to watch.

    To be clear the term Weblog was improperly defined by you. a video documentary. A weblog as per Google is another word for a blog. and just in case you were wondering a"BLOG" which is a regularly updated website or web page.

    What I suggested was simply goto youtube.com and watch The BBS documentary chapter 4 covering Fidonet.
    This will do two things...
    1. It will provide that I was right as it relates to the facts of the formerly mentioned Jason Scott documentary.
    2. It will provide a correction to what you thought you new, which in this case is called a education.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
    _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Tue Jan 17 23:59:16 2023
    Hello Greg,

    Weblog? It's a video documentary there are 8 chapters.

    Weblog is terminology for video documentary.
    All 8 chapters are online, free to watch.

    To be clear the term Weblog was improperly defined by you. a video documentary.

    The term 'blog' is short for 'weblog' - which may or may not include
    video.

    A weblog as per Google is another word for a blog.

    A shortened form of 'weblog' - but in essence the same thing.

    and just in case you were wondering a"BLOG" which is a regularly updated website or web page.

    Not all blogs are regularly updated or a part of another web page.
    A blog (or weblog) can be a video documentary, but does not have to
    be. It might not even have any video at all. Or pictures.

    What I suggested was simply goto youtube.com and watch The BBS documentary chapter 4 covering Fidonet.

    It is an excellent history or video documentary. But like all
    histories (or documentaries) it is an interpretation.

    This will do two things...
    1. It will provide that I was right as it relates to the facts of the formerly mentioned Jason Scott documentary.

    Just because one person says his own version of history is the truth
    does not make it so. For every history that is written, there is a
    different interpretation. So which history is "the truth"? Was the
    truth as told by The Union what really happened during the US Civil
    War? Was the truth as told by The Confederacy what really happened
    during the US Civil War? Depends on who was telling the tale, and
    who was listening.

    The same is true in regards to the history of Fidonet.

    2. It will provide a correction to what you thought you new, which in this case is called a education.

    From two messages, this morning. One from Vince Coen, the other
    from Ward Dossche, in the Fidonews echo.

    Vince posted a set of statistics showing his count of the number
    of sysops in each zone, with a total of all sysops -

    Zone 1 359 North America
    Zone 2 509 Europe
    Zone 3 26 Australia/NZ
    Zone 4 17 Latin America
    Total 911

    Ward countered by posting his own count for total of all sysops,
    without giving details for each zone -

    Total 831

    I have no idea as to who is right and who is wrong. It could be
    both are wrong, and far from the mark.

    And apparently there are no sysops in Africa, or any syops floating
    about on open water.

    As can plainly be seen, there is no rhyme or reason as to why there
    should be any zones in Fidonet. There never has been a need, even in
    Fidonet's heyday of 34,000+ sysops worldwide.

    So why did Tom Jennings insist on Fidonet include 6 zones in P4?
    And why did sysops later decide to drop two zones, with the excuse
    there were not enough sysops in those parts to justify them?

    How many sysops does it take to justify the need for a separate zone?

    I am just using the stats as given by Vince and Ward.

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    Nothing sucks like an Electrolux

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Jan 18 01:19:05 2023
    On 17 Jan 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    It is an excellent history or video documentary. But like all
    histories (or documentaries) it is an interpretation.

    So you finally watched it OR perhaps you did not watch the documentary at all, due to you calling it an interpretation, that could be said for some documentaries but this, is not one of those times. Simply due to the actual people that were interviewed, these were the very individuals that they were making and living within this historical past. People like Tom Jennings and Ben Baker, and Ward Christensen as well as others. Jason Scott did NOT narrate this documentary nearly to any degree. The people who were interviewed did the majority of talking as they spoke about the factual historical past of Fidonet. You would know this to be true, if you watched the documentary.

    truth as told by The Union what really happened during the US Civil
    War? Was the truth as told by The Confederacy what really happened
    during the US Civil War? Depends on who was telling the tale, and
    who was listening.

    Your civil war thing is nothing more than your an attempt of a distraction.
    I follow the Civil War too, it was far from civil, but that will be a discussion for another day. But I will say the Brains were in the North and apparently this is remains true even today.

    The same is true in regards to the history of
    Fidonet.
    Nice try trying to rope me into whatever that was.
    No Fidonet is not like that at all, by the way.

    I have no idea as to who is right and who is wrong. It could be
    both are wrong, and far from the mark.
    I counted at least 1500, I used last weeks nodelist that came out last Friday 01/13/2023 I can break them down by zone also, but that will require more time. Just take a look at the latest Nodelist that comes out this Friday. As it is
    is available each Friday.

    As can plainly be seen, there is no rhyme or reason as to why there
    should be any zones in Fidonet. There never has been a need, even in Fidonet's heyday of 34,000+ sysops worldwide.
    The BBS Documentary speaks to the peak also. I think it is greater then 34,000

    So why did Tom Jennings insist on Fidonet include 6 zones in P4?
    And why did sysops later decide to drop two zones, with the excuse
    there were not enough sysops in those parts to justify them?
    You need to understand a few key points here...
    (points that I have been trying to make, for at least a few messages now)
    In the beginning it was fido-bbs software not fidonet, fido had a 250 node limit. Fidonet allowed a better structure for growth and it has lasted to the 21st century. As it continues to roll on ever forward.
    Zone 1 Consists of North America - U.S. and Canada.

    How many sysops does it take to justify the need for a separate zone? LL>
    To my earlier point your not even zone 1.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
    _[]_││──││ │TROY│ │HUB│ │ Fidonet │ │FSX Net│ ║S I N C E║ │Another Message│
    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
    * Origin: Capital Station BBS * Telnet://csbbs.dyndns.org * (1:267/150)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Gregory Deyss on Fri Jan 20 14:36:38 2023
    Hello Greg,

    It is an excellent history or video documentary. But like all
    histories (or documentaries) it is an interpretation.

    So you finally watched it OR perhaps you did not watch the documentary at all, due to you calling it an interpretation, that could be said for some documentaries but this, is not one of those times.

    History is a combination of facts and interpretation. Not just any
    history, but all history. Regardless of subject or subject matter.

    History is about interpreting the past, but is also a "spin" on
    historical facts (whatever those facts may be). It is also tentative,
    subject to changes, as time goes on, as new information becomes known
    and/or available.

    All history is revisionist history, same as no snowflake is the same.

    Simply due to the actual people that were interviewed, these were the very individuals that they were making and living within this historical past.

    There were actual people who fought battles in the US Civil War.
    On both sides. But what is taught in schools are interpretations
    or tales from different viewpoints.

    Most histories of the US Civil War that are taught in schools are told
    from a Northern point of view, with only a small minority being taught
    from a Southern point of view.

    The reason why is simple - the North won the war and the South lost.

    Imagine the world today if Nazis had won WWII, with people from
    around the world praising Adolf Hitler as being a visionary figure
    rather than an evil madman.

    People like Tom Jennings and Ben Baker, and Ward Christensen as well as others.

    Fidonet began with a small number of sysops, and expanded to a much
    larger number worldwide. Some, like Tom Jennings, only participated for
    a few years. Others stayed on for decades.

    Jason Scott did NOT narrate this documentary nearly to any degree.

    He was instrumental in putting it on the web, and took full credit
    for it.

    The people who were interviewed did the majority of talking as they spoke about the factual historical past of Fidonet.

    Some people were interviewed, but certainly not all, or all who
    should have been. And the conclusions derived or alluded to were
    those of the producer, Jason Scott.

    There are two kinds of histories - simultaneous and consecutive.
    Scott presented his own interpretation - which he is free to update
    any time he wants. But it is not a definitive history. Nor is it an
    official history.

    You would know this to be true, if you watched the documentary.

    History is a combination of facts and interpretation. Jason Scott
    has his own combination of facts, and presents his own interpretation.
    He has presented his video documentary online for all to watch.

    truth as told by The Union what really happened during the US Civil
    War? Was the truth as told by The Confederacy what really happened
    during the US Civil War? Depends on who was telling the tale, and
    who was listening.

    Your civil war thing is nothing more than your an attempt of a distraction.

    The idea of zones in Fidonet is, and always has been, a distraction.

    I follow the Civil War too, it was far from civil, but that will be a discussion for another day.

    There have been several recent books written about the possibility
    of a new civil war coming about. Will present some topics along those
    lines in this echo, as well as in the POLITICS echo.

    But I will say the Brains were in the North and apparently this is remains true even today.

    Had the South won the war we all know who would have written the
    histories taught in our schools.

    All histories are revisionist. Nothing is set in stone. Held
    interpretations of history are tentative, subject to changes as
    new information is uncovered.

    The same is true in regards to the history of Fidonet.

    Nice try trying to rope me into whatever that was.
    No Fidonet is not like that at all, by the way.

    Trying to fence in sysops is like herding cats. But some things
    are too obvious to ignore. Even for sysops.

    I have no idea as to who is right and who is wrong. It could be
    both are wrong, and far from the mark.

    I counted at least 1500, I used last weeks nodelist that came out last Friday 01/13/2023 I can break them down by zone also, but that will require
    more time.

    Depends on who is doing the counting, and what is being counted.
    Vince says one thing, Ward says another, and Greg says something else.
    Maybe all are right, each in their own way.

    Just take a look at the latest Nodelist that comes out this Friday. As it is
    is available each Friday.

    But is it the same, for each zone? That is the question.
    Or one of the questions. As there are several zones, none
    of which truly are needed.

    As can plainly be seen, there is no rhyme or reason as to why there
    should be any zones in Fidonet. There never has been a need, even in
    Fidonet's heyday of 34,000+ sysops worldwide.

    The BBS Documentary speaks to the peak also. I think it is greater then 34,000

    Whatever the peak number, it was far higher than what it is today.

    So why did Tom Jennings insist on Fidonet include 6 zones in P4?
    And why did sysops later decide to drop two zones, with the excuse
    there were not enough sysops in those parts to justify them?

    You need to understand a few key points here...
    (points that I have been trying to make, for at least a few messages now)

    There were no zones when Fidonet was created.
    The introduction of zones did not come about until
    Fidonet P4 was written (although signed by no one).
    Why were zones included in P4? Because Tom Jennings
    said so, without citing any reason.

    In the beginning it was fido-bbs software not fidonet, fido had a 250 node limit.

    I find this to be a very silly and absurd excuse. In California,
    which has a current population of over 38 million people. With a
    world population of some 8 billion souls.

    Fidonet allowed a better structure for growth and it has lasted to the 21st
    century.

    Sysops did not wait until the 21st century to cross that 250 node
    limit ...

    As it continues to roll on ever forward.
    Zone 1 Consists of North America - U.S. and Canada.

    There were no zones until P4 was written - in 1989.
    There were a lot more than 250 sysops prior to 1989.
    So why were zones needed again?
    The first excuse doesn't seem to add up.

    How many sysops does it take to justify the need for a separate zone?

    To my earlier point your not even zone 1.

    I'm an independent. :)

    For Life,
    Lee

    --
    NO MASKS REQUIRED. THIS IS A NO-FEAR ZONE.

    --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Gregory Deyss@2:280/464 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Jan 21 11:56:37 2023

    On 20 Jan 2023, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    History is a combination of facts and interpretation. Not just any
    history, but all history. Regardless of subject or subject matter.
    There is no need for a interpretation of which is far more related to talking out of your ass. This means you're essentially guessing or assuming something; hence you're purely speculating, when it comes to being interpretive.

    It's far superior to speak of history with plenty as facts used as the basis, or just leave it to others who can get it right.
    You need to know when to fold'em and know how to hold'em.

    The reason why is simple - the North won the war and the South lost.
    Right the south wanted to continue to have slaves, these are the same people behind the Democratic Party.

    More on these troublemakers of the South can be read here. https://tinyurl.com/ycy7wtyb
    Titled: The Inconvenient Truth about the Democratic Party
    Carol Swain Professor of Political Science and Law at Vanderbilt University

    Imagine the world today if Nazis had won WWII, with people from
    around the world praising Adolf Hitler as being a visionary figure
    rather than an evil madman.

    Hitler would of been remembered as a true visionary if it was not for the Holocaust and his thirst for power and taking over neighboring countries.
    Did they teach you in school that it was the Russians that also slaughtered "far more" Jews then Hitler, probably not.
    Did they teach you about Kristallnacht The Night of Broken Glass or why it happened. It will be interesting to see what you learned as you indicate your information to see if it stands up to the accurate account of the actual
    events with how this happened.

    Hitler was also the primary mind behind Volkswagen - the peoples car.
    Does that mean if someone of today who owns a Volkswagen loves everything that Hitler ever did? No, of course it does not mean that.

    Fidonet began with a small number of sysops, and expanded to a much
    larger number worldwide. Some, like Tom Jennings, only participated for
    a few years. Others stayed on for decades.

    Your leaving out or not remembering this correctly, true it was a small number of system operators in the beginning, but it did not then automatically then balloon, w/ efforts from hidden sorcery to then become a world wide offering.

    Several significant changes were introduced to allow this to happen.
    You need to AGAIN remember in the beginning it was not FIDONET but fido_bbs
    of which had a 250 limit. FIDONET eliminated the 250 limit. The organization and planning allowed for the creation of zones and to have greater management and it has existed and as hummed along ever-since.

    Jason Scott did NOT narrate this documentary nearly to any degree.
    He was instrumental in putting it on the web, and took full credit
    for it.
    As he should have, in my opinion it was and is currently is considered to be a a great achievement and even a masterpiece, Fidonet is only ONE chapter among EIGHT chapters that are covered within The BBS Documentary.

    The people who were interviewed did the majority of talking as they s
    SEEN-BY: 103/705 124/5016 153/757 154/10 203/0 218/840 220/70 221/0 226/17 SEEN-BY: 240/1120 5832 267/118 150 156 157 331 585 800 280/464 5003
    SEEN-BY: 292/8125 301/1 341/66 234 396/45 423/120 633/280 712/848 770/1 SEEN-BY: 770/100 340 772/210 220 230