Anger over attack on Christmas
From: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
By Ainsley Pavey

December 04, 2005

RELIGIOUS groups have launched an attack on Christmas - calling
for it to be renamed and toned down.

A leading Islamic body says the use of the term "Christmas" is
politically incorrect because it excludes too many people in
multicultural Australia.

The Forum on Australia's Islamic Relations wants a community debate
to find an alternative - suggesting the word "festive" as a possible replacement.

And a Queensland Jewish leader has called for an end to the "automatic imposition" of Christmas on the community, saying the season has been
reduced to a "shopping festival".

The attacks have outraged Christian churches, family groups and civic
leaders. Even other Muslim groups have slammed the call.

Islamic Council of Queensland president Abdul Jalal said Muslims have
"no right" to question what Christians called their religious
festival.

Premier Peter Beattie said Christmas was an important celebration that
should "stay put". He said: "Christians should be able to celebrate
the festivities as Christmas."

Brisbane Anglican Archbishop Phillip Aspinall said Christmas should
continue to be celebrated as a "very important" date on the Christian
calendar.

Queensland Churches Together u representing 11 denominations including Catholic, Anglican and Uniting churches - described the name-change
proposal as "absurd".

And Family Council of Queensland president Alan Baker described the
plans as "impertinent and intolerant".

He said: "No one is suggesting that other religions change the name
of their celebrations, such as Ramadan for Muslims or Hanukkah for
Jews."

Queensland local councils scoffed at suggestions they shun Christmas.

Townsville Mayor Tony Mooney said: "Christmas is not politically
incorrect and there is only a small group in the population that
believe it is - and they're nuts."

Caboolture Shire Council Mayor Joy Leishman said the call to rename
Christmas was ridiculous.

But the Islamic-relations forum director, Kuranda Seyit, told The
Sunday Mail it was time for Australia to fall in line with places
such as the UK, where councils have renamed Christmas "Winterval"
and replaced references to Christmas on signage with the words
"Festive" and "Winter".

"Australia is now so diverse and there are so many cultures and
festivities, we need to acknowledge the need to be inclusive of
our identity."

He expected his plan would insult some people, but urged a
"step-by-step" approach.

"A word like Festive is a good word but the community should make an
effort to come up with an alternative to Christmas. Schools will take
a leading role in terms of political correctness. The younger
generation will grow up and say 'it's not fair'."

Queensland's Jewish Board of Deputies president David Paratz said
the extent of Christmas celebrations and partying had got out of hand
- as had the commercialism surrounding the festival. Christmas was
considered just a "shopping festival" by many people, he said.

"It can't be assumed everyone is a Christian. People should not
be faced with the automatic imposition of Christmas."

-=<*>=-

Source: news.com.au ("Sunday Mail" - Brisbane) http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17454097-421,00.html


Cheers, Steve..

---
* Origin: No to Dhimmitude - No to Noahides (3:800/432)

And a Queensland Jewish leader has called for an end to the "automatic imposition" of Christmas on the community, saying the season has been reduced to a "shopping festival".

The attacks have outraged Christian churches, family groups and civic leaders. Even other Muslim groups have slammed the call.

Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING in the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it (the adoption of pagan practices, especially)

Because I care,
|<+]::-) (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


... nfx v3.1 What if there were no hypothetical questions?
--- Fringe BBS
* Origin: EWOG II - The Fringe - 904-733-1721 (1:112/91)

Mulling over George Pope to Steve Asher 04 Dec 2005

And a Queensland Jewish leader has called for an end to the "automatic imposition" of Christmas on the community, saying the season has been reduced to a "shopping festival".

The attacks have outraged Christian churches, family groups and civic leaders. Even other Muslim groups have slammed the call.

Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING in
the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it (the adoption of pagan practices, especially)

If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where they
will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

Cheers, Steve..

---
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)

On (07 Dec 05) Steve Asher wrote to George Pope...

Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING

in

the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it

(the

adoption of pagan practices, especially)

If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where
they
will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

Way to sidestep my question!

And, as I recall, Australia is not inherently a Christian nation -- the Christians came late and imposed themselves upon the natives. . .

And it's not that simple to immigrate to just anywhere you please in
this world!

For example, I've looked into leaving Canada, and even to go to fellow Commonwealth nations is impossible for me! (let alone any nation without
a history of inter-migration with Canada!)

And why should THEY have to leave what is just as much THEIR home
country?

And, last I heard, Oz was not a nation specifically & officially forcing Christianity on its citizenry!

Because I care,
<+]::-{)} (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


--- PPoint 1.76
* Origin: Cyberpope pointing via Bandmaster BBS! (1:153/715.1275)

Mulling over George Pope to Steve Asher 07 Dec 2005

Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely NOTHING

in

the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn it

(the

adoption of pagan practices, especially)

If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where
they
will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

Way to sidestep my question!

Not really; I assumed you had asked a "Dorothy Dixer" and responded to it.

And, as I recall, Australia is not inherently a Christian nation --
the Christians came late and imposed themselves upon the natives. .

No country is inherently Christian, but many countries do have Christian traditions, including Australia.

And it's not that simple to immigrate to just anywhere you please
in this world!

For example, I've looked into leaving Canada, and even to go to
fellow Commonwealth nations is impossible for me! (let alone any
nation without a history of inter-migration with Canada!)

And why should THEY have to leave what is just as much THEIR home
country?

I suggested it as a possibility, not something to be mandated. The
Oz government has strongly asserted that Sharia Law will not be
adopted here, & again has suggested that anyone who wants it badly
should leave for somewhere that has it; there is talk of deporting dual-nationals who seek to undermine Australia's legal system.

Cheers, Steve..

---
* Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)

On (10 Dec 05) Steve Asher wrote to George Pope...

Why would the churches be bothered? There's absolutely

NOTHING

in

the Bible to support this celebration, but much to condemn

it

(the

adoption of pagan practices, especially)

If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia

with its

Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere

where

they
will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq

etc.

Way to sidestep my question!

Not really; I assumed you had asked a "Dorothy Dixer" and responded to
it.

I don't know what a "Dorothy Dixer" is so obviously I didn't ask one. .
.
and you STILL avoid my question!

No country is inherently Christian, but many countries do have
Christian
traditions, including Australia.

Even some inherently Moslem nations have some Christian traditions. . .
Even the High Church of Satan has mostly Christian traditions!

And why should THEY have to leave what is just as much THEIR home country?

I suggested it as a possibility, not something to be mandated. The
Oz government has strongly asserted that Sharia Law will not be
adopted here, & again has suggested that anyone who wants it badly
should leave for somewhere that has it; there is talk of deporting dual-nationals who seek to undermine Australia's legal system.

Isn't Australia a democracy with free speech laws?

So what's wrong with anybody who pays taxes in Oz speaking up for what
they believe to be a better system?

And if they successfully convince a majority of Australians, then, by Australian law it must become so, right?

Because I care,
<+]::-{)} (Cyberpope(the Bishop of ROM!))


--- PPoint 1.76
* Origin: Cyberpope pointing via Bandmaster BBS! (1:153/715.1275)

If Jews and Muslims are really so unhappy living in Australia with its Christmas traditions, they might consider moving to somewhere where they will be happier... e.g. Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

The others, yeah, they'd have their Muslim celebrations, but only in Israel would they actually have freedom, as do other religions. . .

... nfx v3.1
--- Fringe BBS
* Origin: EWOG II - The Fringe - 904-733-1721 (1:112/91)