Just recently saw PD Zmodem on the PC Micro website and was wondering if anyone
has tested using this to solve the CRC issues that happen when using Mystic to front-end another BBS?

That issue was just brought to my attention and figured I would ask. Will just
go ahead and experiment soon, too.

Thanks.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.51
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)

Hello Mark!

22 Dec 16 16:40, you wrote to all:

when using Mystic to front-end another BBS?

I mentioned this issue to you when you started. :) It's not
mystic it's just how the stuff works, if you've got a couple of
bounce points zmodem will always fail.

Doesn't matter what you use as a front end... If you open another
telnet session zmodem upload will never work. I've tried everything
over the years.

I sure hope you can prove me wrong (As I thought you already had!) ;)

Shawn


... Chicken Little was right.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160322
* Origin: Tiny's BBS - www.tinysbbs.com (1:229/452.3)

Just recently saw PD Zmodem on the PC Micro website and was wondering if anyone
has tested using this to solve the CRC issues that happen when using Mystic to >front-end another BBS?

What is different about it that might make one expect different results? Curious as I used to have a copy around here somewhere.

Mike

---
# SLMR 2.1a # "Dude! We have the power supreme!" - Butthead


--- GTMail 1.26
* Origin: CCO BBS * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net (1:2320/105.0)

On 2016 Dec 23 21:28:00, you wrote to Mark Hofmann:

Just recently saw PD Zmodem on the PC Micro website and was wondering
if anyone has tested using this to solve the CRC issues that happen
when using Mystic to front-end another BBS?

What is different about it that might make one expect different
results? Curious as I used to have a copy around here somewhere.

timings... the internal timers may be more lax allowing for longer transmission
times before erroring out...

as far as Tiny's comment about multiple telnet hops, it makes sense because telnet can be switched in modes so that things like zmodem will work... that mode switch isn't transmitted up the line to the next telnet package because the first one ate it when it reacted to it... remember, no one ever expected to
be tunneling file transfer protocols within telnet sessions... that's why, from
a command shell account, you always telneted and then opened a separate sz or rz connection for your files... they weren't done inside the telnet pipe...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I won't actively try to have you committed, although I won't oppose it.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

What is different about it that might make one expect different results? Curious as I used to have a copy around here somewhere.

Not really sure, but figured it was worth a shot.

A few weeks ago, I was testing various ideas to get binary file transfers to work while using Mystic as a front-end. Here are the things I discovered:

1) Text file transfers work fine.
2) Binary transfers don't work (ZIP, etc).

I tried to add this to the WWIV source code to try and force telnet into binary
mode before the transfer:

outcomch('\xFF');
outcomch('\xFB');
outcomch('\x0');


Also tried this:

outcomch((char)255);
outcomch((char)251);
outcomch((char)0);
wait1(100);

Neither had an effect, unfortunately. Basically what needs to happen is to have the telnet session in binary mode from the start. Transfers will work fine if that was the case based on what I have been reading and investigating.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)

as far as Tiny's comment about multiple telnet hops, it makes sense
because telnet can be switched in modes so that things like zmodem will work... that mode switch isn't transmitted up the line to the next telnet package because the first one ate it when it reacted to it... remember,

Correct, the very first telnet needs to be in binary mode for file transfers to
work. I'm almost certain the one that needs to be edited is the telnet from the Mystic shuttle menu.

The characters that display when you telnet from the shuttle do include some of
those single bits that configure the telnet parameters. We just need that "set
to binary mode" sequence added.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)

On 2017 Jan 15 09:41:38, you wrote to me:

as far as Tiny's comment about multiple telnet hops, it makes sense
because telnet can be switched in modes so that things like zmodem
will work... that mode switch isn't transmitted up the line to the
next telnet package because the first one ate it when it reacted to
it... remember,

Correct, the very first telnet needs to be in binary mode for file transfers to work.

FWIW: AFAIK, the entire telnet chain needs to be in binary mode for tunneled file transfers to work properly...

in other words, if there's five telnet hops between the user and the remote system, all five of those hops need to be initiated in binary mode...

what do i mean by "telnet hops"? consider that you allow users to telnet out to
other systems and those other systems also allow telnetting out...

I'm almost certain the one that needs to be edited is the telnet from
the Mystic shuttle menu.

i have no clue how that would be done... i didn't even know mystic had a "shuttle" menu, whatever that is...

The characters that display when you telnet from the shuttle do
include some of those single bits that configure the telnet
parameters. We just need that "set to binary mode" sequence added.

or at least figure out how to pass those setting bits through to other telnets further down in the chain...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I am so smart I can do crossword puzzles without looking at the clues.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

FWIW: AFAIK, the entire telnet chain needs to be in binary mode for tunneled file transfers to work properly...

in other words, if there's five telnet hops between the user and the
remote system, all five of those hops need to be initiated in binary mode...
what do i mean by "telnet hops"? consider that you allow users to telnet out to other systems and those other systems also allow telnetting out...

Correct, that is exactly what is going on. Even though I might be able to force binary telnet mode on my BBS, the telnet session that Mystic kicks off to
the BBS would also need to be set to binary mode.

Unfortunately, there is no control for that at the present time.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)

Re: Re: PD Zmodem
By: Mark Hofmann to Mark Lewis on Mon Jan 23 2017 01:04 pm

Correct, that is exactly what is going on. Even though I might be able to force binary telnet mode on my BBS, the telnet session that Mystic kicks off the BBS would also need to be set to binary mode.

Unfortunately, there is no control for that at the present time.

Each host should send an IAC DO TRANSMIT_BINARY. That assumes that the client is RFC compliant enough to obey the command of course. :)

g.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Retro Archive (1:138/142)

|Correct, that is exactly what is going on. Even though I might be able to |force binary telnet mode on my BBS, the telnet session that Mystic kicks off to
|the BBS would also need to be set to binary mode.
|
|Unfortunately, there is no control for that at the present time.
+-[MH=>ML]

So this issue only affects telnet connections where you telnet to one
system and then can telnet to the next, like with the mystic matrix menu or
the SBBS "door" that lets you telnet to another system?

I am pretty sure that I had zmodem working fine with telnet connections to
my GT Power system back when folks telneted into the OS/2-VMODEM box
directly (well, with at least my router and ISP in between). Now that I am
not set up that way -- I have mystic set up on port 23, routing traffic to
GT or SBBS -- they do not work.

Mike

##Mmr 2.61(beta). !link MH 01-23-17 13:04


--- GTMail 1.26
* Origin: CCO BBS * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net (1:2320/105.1)

So this issue only affects telnet connections where you telnet to one system and then can telnet to the next, like with the mystic matrix menu
or the SBBS "door" that lets you telnet to another system?

Yes, my example is the Mystic matrix menu and then it doing a telnet to another
BBS from the menu.

If you telnet directly to the BBS, binary transfers work fine. Using the matrix menu to the BBS, binary transfers don't work. Text based Zmodem transfers do work, however.

- Mark

--- WWIVToss v.1.52
* Origin: http://www.weather-station.org * Bel Air, MD -USA (1:261/1304.0)