• Re: Magic Impregnated Gra

    From Coelacanth@1:278/230 to All on Mon Mar 22 06:27:00 2004
    Hi Emily,

    Since I know someone will suggest The Krib
    (an excellent site), I'll point you to another
    good site, www.skepticalaquarist.com/. Look
    at the stuff on "Biofilm".

    The "magic" in your gravel is obtainable by
    putting ordinary muggle gravel in contact
    with an established aquarium. We in the
    non-wizarding world call this "bacteria".

    As an aside, you may want to look into
    "Biospira" which is taking the aquarium
    world by storm and really does seem
    like magic.

    Good luck with the report!

    -coelacanth

    P.S. Be sure to document all your sources,
    even the internet-derived ones.

    "Emily" <franabulax@acm.org> wrote in message news:pan.2004.03.20.21.49.46.361997@acm.org...
    Hi,

    Tony on rec.aquaria.tech, as well as very kindly providing some links to pages on the nitrogen cycle, suggested posting the following message
    to rec.aquaria.misc. I apologize if anyone is offended by the duplication.

    I am hoping somebody on this group may be able to point me in the right direction.

    I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
    some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
    comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
    at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with nitrifying bacteria.

    Now my question is about the gravel (I need to discuss an innovation for
    my research report). Has anyone heard of such bacteria-impregnated gravel? The claim in the brochure is that filters and mechanical aeration are unnecessary because of this magical stuff.

    Where can I look to find out more about it, such as who invented it and
    when, how is it made, and what its properties, advantages and
    disadvantages are? I asked the people who sold me the fish and they were strangely evasive -- presumably because it's their commercial secret
    and they don't want anyone cutting in on their business.

    I would be very grateful for any clues, no matter how small.

    Thank you very much.

    Regards,

    Emily

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  • From Elizabeth Naime@1:278/230 to All on Mon Mar 29 15:25:00 2004
    Quoth Emily <franabulax@acm.org> on Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:49:47 GMT,

    First, about that gravel. Nothing magical about it. Most of the
    beneficial bacteria that convert toxic ammonia (fish waste) to
    less-toxic (but still quite dangerous) nitrite, and nitrite to much more
    nearly benign nitrAte, are lithotropic. They like rocks. They need
    water, and they need oxygen (they're aerobic). The classic undergravel
    filter pushes air or water through a bed of gravel, counting on the
    gravel to provide surface area for the bacteria to grow on and the air
    or water movement to provide the oxygen. Other biofilter systems may
    look very different (sponges, biowheels) but are all using the same
    principle: provide habitat, water and oxygen for the filter bacteria,
    and move the tank water through this filter so the bacteria can have at
    it.

    Without "aeration or mechanical filtration" the concern would be how the
    gravel bed is getting enough oxygen, and also how the water is kept
    moving through the gravel.

    You can get fully seeded gravel from any well cycled tank with an
    undergravel filter. Indeed, if you have a source you trust (because
    after all any undesirable bacteria or fish parasites will also come with
    the gravel!) this is possibly the oldest and certainly the simplest way
    to start a new tank cycling. More recently people have experimented,
    very successfully, with rinsing out well-established filters and adding
    the liquid "gunk" to a new tank. It's been reported to be much faster
    than the gravel-seeding method but has the same caveats -- you get a bit
    of whatever was in that tank, including nasties if present. Read about
    it here: http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=64&category=15&search_term=ammonia
    .

    You can purchase various products alleged to have the necessary
    bacteria. I consider these snake oil myself, because I have doubts about
    the bacteria surviving in the bottle while it sits on the shelf for
    months; the real snake oil, though, is that these bacteria are just
    about everywhere and will show up in your tanks whether you "add" them
    or not!

    There are one or two "cycle bacteria" products that do seem to work.
    They rely on being very fresh and shipped directly to you very quickly
    -- and they are incredibly expensive. Not because the bacteria are rare
    or innovative, but because of the timing involved to get them to you
    while still numerous and active.

    There is one other product you might look into here, http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/articles_results.php?article_id=33&category=13&search_term=ammonia.
    Not at all sure what this is or how it works, but it's clearly NOT your ordinary filter bacteria! As an innovation, it seems to me like
    wonderful stuff, but it will never replace the traditional biofilter.

    I am doing a high school research project that involves keeping
    some fish (specifically, Siamese Fighting Fish). The one that I bought
    comes in a small plastic container, with some apparently "special" gravel
    at the bottom of the tank that I gather is somehow impregnated with >nitrifying bacteria.

    Hmm. Is this a small cube thing sold with the gravel, a tiny plant,
    water and fish already in? You may have an "aqua baby" or something
    similar.

    I don't approve of 'em, but this is a science project -- a great place
    to do your own research! I would STRONGLY SUGGEST that you purchase a
    water testing kit from the local fish store. Make a chart and test daily
    for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and I'd love to see you test for
    dissolved oxygen too since the manufacturer claims no aeration is
    needed. In aquaria, we strive for ZERO ammonia and ZERO nitrites, and
    keep nitrates low with regular water changes (and lots of plants help as
    well). I've always assumed this is true in nature as well, since in
    nature there are far fewer fish than we stock in our tanks. But since
    you have that test kit you can gather samples from local rivers, creeks,
    lakes, ponds, whatever's convenient -- and test to see if this is true.

    I don't know how much leeway you have on the project. If you have
    leeway, I would do an experiment. Keep one of these small containers
    exactly as supplied, doing exactly the maintenance the manufacturer
    recommends, and test daily for all the things mentioned above.
    Meanwhile, purchase or borrow a small conventional filtered tank (a
    ten-gallon tank with an undergravel filter is probably the best bang for
    your buck), a bunch of plants (anacharis/elodea, cabomba, frill plant,
    and parrot feather are readily available and cheap; hornwort will work
    as well, but is harder to find and tends to "shed" leaves that clog up filters), and another betta setup from the same place you got your first
    one. Hold off on the betta until you have the new tank cycled (you've
    gotten good references for that already), then buy the betta and add the
    fish and plant to the cycled tank. Now you have a control, a tank using conventional methods, to test alongside of the little container.

    I really think you will find that the small container does not acheive
    or at least does not maintain 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites, and that you
    will see a higher level of dissolved oxygen in the conventional tank as
    well. But you can find out, and report those results. This would be
    great if the project requirements allow you to study whether or not an innovation actually works.

    In innovation in general, read up on the cycle and the nitrifying
    bacteria and the methods currently used to bring everything together (undergravel filters, wet/dry sponge filters, and biowheels are the ones
    I know about; there may be others). Is there another way that hasn't
    been tried yet, that might be more effective or maybe just easier to set
    up?

    I would love to learn of your results, and I think many others would
    also if you'd like to post them here.


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