• Newbie-How Many Fish?

    From Jjg@1:278/230 to All on Tue Dec 30 06:27:00 2003
    My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
    African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get
    another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
    in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
    tank clean)?

    Thanks in advance for you help!
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  • From Iain Miller@1:278/230 to All on Wed Dec 31 06:23:00 2003
    "JJG" <groomj98@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3763e95e.0312291919.40664880@posting.google.com...
    My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
    African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get
    another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
    in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
    tank clean)?

    Thanks in advance for you help!

    First thing you need to do is read up on the nitrogen cycle. Pretty soon
    toxins (ammonia and Nitrite) will start building in the tank. These will
    then decline back to zero as the bio filter kicks in but it can take a good number of weeks for it to happen - basically bacterial colonies develop that deal with the Ammonia and turn it into Nitrite and then another one develops that eats the Nitrite & turns it into Nitrate which is relatively harmless
    to fish. That said you need to manage the nitrAte & you do that by changing 10-15% of the water in the tank every week or so. The ammonia is given off
    by the fish poop and rotting matter. The more you feed the more of the
    latter there will be so don't over feed! Feed as much as they will eat in
    2-3 minutes twice a day. A slightly hungry fish is more likely to stay a healthy fish.

    You need to manage these toxins or you will have a dead fish & I would guess frog as well. The Tetra will not tolerate a lot of this at all. Assuming you have set this up in the last week you need to act on this quickly - the
    ammonia will be rising now - the Nitrite comes inside the next week or two.
    If you see the fish gasping at the surface then you know its struggling -
    not for air but because of the toxins & you should change some water immediately.

    The shortcut would be to go back to your LFS (or find a friendly local aquarium keeper) and get either some gravel/sand from one of their tanks or better yet a piece of used filter wool/sponge from one of their filters.
    This will carry the essential bacteria you need and so will kick start your
    own filtration very much more quickly. If you go there then take a sample of your water - they will test it for you for ammonia & nitrite & you will know where you are. You only need a small amount in a jar for them to test.

    If you don't have them you then should buy test kits for Ammonia and Nitrite
    as a minimum. You need to watch these for the first few weeks - testing
    every day if necessary. Once the filter is established you will have less
    need of these.

    If the levels rise too high then change some water making sure to use a suitable dechlorinator - ask your LFS if there is Chlorine or Chloramine in your local water supply & make sure you get dechlor that will deal with chloramine specifically if you have it. Also make sure you match the temperature of any new water you put in the tank to the water in the tank itself as close as you can (within 2-3 deg F. in a tank that small). Add the dechlor to the bucket of water before you put it in the tank .

    If you have some kind of small power filter then when you clean it do so
    only in a bucket of water from the tank - it doesn't need to be spotless
    just rinse away the worst of the junk. If you use some kind of filter with sponges/wool etc in it NEVER clean it under the tap - you will kill all the
    bio bugs & end up back at square one. If you use an under gravel filter then vacuum out the worst of the rubbish with a syphon as part of your water
    change routine.

    5 gallons is a very small tank & so the toxin levels will rise quite
    quickly. Its not unmanageable at all but you will need to watch it closely
    till it stabilises otherwise you may have a very unhappy little girl on your hands.

    Don't know a lot about frogs & how big they get so suggest you ask the LFS
    as to populations

    HTH, good luck.

    I.
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  • From Barry Martin@1:278/230 to Jjg on Thu Jan 1 08:00:00 2004
    Hi Folks!

    I'm definately not an expert and have been lurking, learning from
    those who know more than I. :) Figured I'd jump in to help JJG.

    My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
    African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
    in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
    tank clean)?

    Have a "plotemy" (something like that) named "Charlie" -- scavenger-
    type fish who keeps the aquarium pretty clean. His bottom is flat and
    when he is against the glass can see the suction action of his mouth.
    Top looks bumpy and 'scary' - he's so ugly he's cute! :)



    by the fish poop and rotting matter. The more you feed the more of the latter there will be so don't over feed! Feed as much as they will eat in 2-3 minutes twice a day. A slightly hungry fish is more likely to stay a healthy fish.

    I feed my guys a pinch of granulated fish food at night. They
    certainly are not starving as they usually don't attack the food when
    I feed them. And by "pinch" it's maybe a quarter-teaspoon if that.
    This is for three fish and whatever Charlie eats.


    You need to manage these toxins or you will have a dead fish & I would gues

    frog as well. The Tetra will not tolerate a lot of this at all. Assuming yo

    have set this up in the last week you need to act on this quickly - the ammonia will be rising now - the Nitrite comes inside the next week or two. If you see the fish gasping at the surface then you know its struggling - not for air but because of the toxins & you should change some water immediately.

    I hate to say this but I don't do anything more than clean the
    'cotton' in the filter every so often and the fish have been quite
    happy. Add distilled water as needed (evaporates out, especially in
    winter). Maybe enough surface area the by-products escape? Not sure
    how many gallons the tank is: 20"w x 10"d x 12"h. The guys have been
    living for five or six years easily.

    BTW, good tips, Iian - I kept for future reference.

    -
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  • From Barry Martin@1:278/230 to Jjg on Thu Jan 1 08:37:00 2004
    Hi Folks!

    I'm definately not an expert and have been lurking, learning from
    those who know more than I. :) Figured I'd jump in to help JJG.

    My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
    African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
    in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
    tank clean)?

    Have a "plotemy" (something like that) named "Charlie" -- scavenger-
    type fish who keeps the aquarium pretty clean. His bottom is flat and
    when he is against the glass can see the suction action of his mouth.
    Top looks bumpy and 'scary' - he's so ugly he's cute! :)



    by the fish poop and rotting matter. The more you feed the more of the latter there will be so don't over feed! Feed as much as they will eat in 2-3 minutes twice a day. A slightly hungry fish is more likely to stay a healthy fish.

    I feed my guys a pinch of granulated fish food at night. They
    certainly are not starving as they usually don't attack the food when
    I feed them. And by "pinch" it's maybe a quarter-teaspoon if that.
    This is for three fish and whatever Charlie eats.


    You need to manage these toxins or you will have a dead fish & I would gues

    frog as well. The Tetra will not tolerate a lot of this at all. Assuming yo

    have set this up in the last week you need to act on this quickly - the ammonia will be rising now - the Nitrite comes inside the next week or two. If you see the fish gasping at the surface then you know its struggling - not for air but because of the toxins & you should change some water immediately.

    I hate to say this but I don't do anything more than clean the
    'cotton' in the filter every so often and the fish have been quite
    happy. Add distilled water as needed (evaporates out, especially in
    winter). Maybe enough surface area the by-products escape? Not sure
    how many gallons the tank is: 20"w x 10"d x 12"h. The guys have been
    living for five or six years easily.

    BTW, good tips, Iian - I kept for future reference.

    -
    » barry.martin■AT■thesafebbs.zeppole.com «

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  • From Fish Keeper@1:278/230 to All on Fri Jan 2 06:34:00 2004
    for crying out loud. this is a little girl with a five gallon tank with
    a frog and a little fish.
    if you want my opinion.....get another little frog and maybe one more
    fish. the less you have in the tank the better. don't worry about all
    that testing stuff....we are not talking about an elaborate system with
    exotic expensive fish here. if you want a catfish or large snail that
    would be fine. small cory cat would work o.k.
    change out about a gallon a week of water (using same temp and
    dechlorinator). enjoy them and forget the test kits.
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  • From Iain Miller@1:278/230 to All on Fri Jan 2 06:34:00 2004
    "Fish Keeper" <FishExpert@webtv.net> wrote in message news:9099-3FF49148-8@storefull-2294.public.lawson.webtv.net...
    for crying out loud. this is a little girl with a five gallon tank with
    a frog and a little fish.
    if you want my opinion.....get another little frog and maybe one more
    fish. the less you have in the tank the better. don't worry about all
    that testing stuff....we are not talking about an elaborate system with exotic expensive fish here. if you want a catfish or large snail that
    would be fine. small cory cat would work o.k.
    change out about a gallon a week of water (using same temp and dechlorinator). enjoy them and forget the test kits.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'm sure the OP wants this thing to work & the more you know about what's going on the more likely it is to do
    so. Next step might be to get a bigger tank with more fish - who knows.
    Either way the cycle applies whether its 5 gallons or 500 gallons. My kids (5&7) help look after the two tanks we now have & the testing is all part of
    it - indeed, they remind me to do it from time to time & they enjoy knowing that we are doing the best we can for our fish. They also learn from it.

    A while back we set up a 10G with only two platties in it & we had more problems cyclling that than with either of the two bigger tanks we now
    have - Nitrites nearly went off the scale (probably because we over fed -
    hence the stuff I wrote about not doing so).

    I.
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  • From Geezer From Freezer@1:278/230 to All on Mon Jan 5 10:36:00 2004
    I agree with Iain. The price and size of the animals living in the tank is regardless. Giving an animal the best conditions is the best solution.

    Saying to ignore test kits is ignorant!

    Iain Miller wrote:

    "Fish Keeper" <FishExpert@webtv.net> wrote in message news:9099-3FF49148-8@storefull-2294.public.lawson.webtv.net...
    for crying out loud. this is a little girl with a five gallon tank with
    a frog and a little fish.
    if you want my opinion.....get another little frog and maybe one more
    fish. the less you have in the tank the better. don't worry about all that testing stuff....we are not talking about an elaborate system with exotic expensive fish here. if you want a catfish or large snail that would be fine. small cory cat would work o.k.
    change out about a gallon a week of water (using same temp and dechlorinator). enjoy them and forget the test kits.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'm sure the OP wants this thing to work & the more you know about what's going on the more likely it is to do so. Next step might be to get a bigger tank with more fish - who knows. Either way the cycle applies whether its 5 gallons or 500 gallons. My kids (5&7) help look after the two tanks we now have & the testing is all part of it - indeed, they remind me to do it from time to time & they enjoy knowing that we are doing the best we can for our fish. They also learn from it.

    A while back we set up a 10G with only two platties in it & we had more problems cyclling that than with either of the two bigger tanks we now
    have - Nitrites nearly went off the scale (probably because we over fed - hence the stuff I wrote about not doing so).

    I.
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  • From Here Fishyfishy@1:278/230 to All on Mon Jan 5 20:55:00 2004
    i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
    on. what's your water parameters???

    what about all those poor bettas that are stuck in tea cups and plant vases?????? should we do something about that? what about goldfish in
    a bowl??? how does one cycle a vase??
    just because someone calls there container an aquarium doesn't mean you
    have to go spend tons of money on test kits and chemicals.
    sure you need to be careful, use dechlorinator and watch the number of
    fish and the amount of food you put in your "container" and the animals
    we care for deserve our best intentions but i think starting a little 5
    gallon tank with a frog is different and little kids and mom's don't
    need to be afraid of starting a fun and exciting hobby.

    there are people in this group with the best equipment known to man and
    all the test kits, microscopes and chemicals you could imagine and still
    can't keep a tank of fish alive and healthy.

    all you really need is common sense and a love for the hobby (and take
    what is said in this group with a grain of salt as everyone has an
    opinion and a way that works for them).
    i'll get off my soapbox now (my i feel better).
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  • From Jim@1:278/230 to All on Tue Jan 6 06:49:00 2004
    On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:26:01 -0700 (MST), PhoenixFish@webtv.net (Here FishyFishy) wrote:

    i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
    on. what's your water parameters???

    <snip>
    all you really need is common sense and a love for the hobby (and take
    what is said in this group with a grain of salt as everyone has an
    opinion and a way that works for them).
    i'll get off my soapbox now (my i feel better).
    I've started my 9 year old son with two tanks, a small 2 gal. tank
    with a Betta, and a 10 gal. with a few starter fish. (Platys and
    Swordtails)
    The only water testing that that I've been teaching him so far
    is "How does the water smell and is it fairly clear."

    I do some checks just to make sure, but he has learned that
    overfeeding caused some of his fish to die. Was that it exactly?
    I'm not completely sure, but he learned an important lesson and
    is now much more careful about feeding.

    Jim
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  • From Geezer From Freezer@1:278/230 to All on Tue Jan 6 07:25:00 2004
    Here FishyFishy wrote:

    i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
    on. what's your water parameters???

    too much testing? you're having a larf - oh and how come you and Fish Keeper come from same
    ISP - same person perhaps?
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  • From Jjg@1:278/230 to All on Tue Jan 6 15:25:00 2004
    Thank you to everyone for responding. I actually did buy some testng
    strips - so far everything is coming out fine - except that we have
    very hard water. I added a Panda Cory to the mix and will probably
    add one more frog. I did a 25% water change at the end of the first
    week and will continue to do weekly water changes going forward. The
    creatures all seem to be doing well. I appreciate all of your input.

    Geezer From Freezer <Geezer@Freezer.com> wrote in message news:<3FFA8701.F2FCA9C4@Freezer.com>...
    Here FishyFishy wrote:

    i agree with fishkeeper. if you ask me there is too much testing going
    on. what's your water parameters???

    too much testing? you're having a larf - oh and how come you and Fish Keeper come from same
    ISP - same person perhaps?
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  • From Jason Allen Finnigan@1:278/230 to All on Wed Jan 7 07:07:00 2004
    I would get a real small pleco if you want a cleaner fish and maybe a couple
    of Black Skirt Tetras or any tetra just check the maximum size they will get because a good rule of thumb is 1 gallon of water for each inch of fish I
    might also put some freshwater invertebrates instead of the pleco because 1 they look cooler 2 they will clean the tank and 3 there smaller which is
    what you want for a small tank

    finni

    "JJG" <groomj98@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3763e95e.0312291919.40664880@posting.google.com...
    My daughter got a 5 gallon tank kit for the holidays. We have an
    African Dwarf Frog and a small tetra in the tank. We'd like to get
    another frog and perhaps 1-2 more fish. How many fish can safely live
    in a 5 gallon tank? Would a ctfish be a good idea (to help keep the
    tank clean)?

    Thanks in advance for you help!

    ---
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  • From Alan Hess@1:261/1000 to Jason Allen Finnigan on Wed Jan 7 14:20:22 2004
    Whilst masticating on <Jan 07 04>, Jason Allen Finnigan (1:278/230)
    wrote to All:

    I would get a real small pleco if you want a cleaner fish and

    Better talk to someone knowledgable at the fish store, or you'll wind up with a
    common pleco that can grow over a foot long. Ask for a species that stays small. *adh*

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