Hey Janis, if you want more info on how to start and what to get without breaking the piggy bank, this would be the place <g>.

You do not for instance, need a fancy stand if going with a smaller tank, say 10-20G. If it's in a heated room in winter, several types allow for down to 65F so you will not need a heater either.

The key thing is to setup the tank and let it run without fish (but with whatever you can find locally to partly cycle the tank) for 2 weeks at least.

Expect the water to get cloudy. Don't change it out. Just ride it out. It will get so cloudy you cant see though it eventually which is *good*.
Suddenly one morning it is crystal clear. Happens all on it's own and all those fancy (expensive) chemicals to adjust this, are worthless or damaging
to the cycle. (this true cloud happens only after you add fish)

Once cycled, a tank needs about 10 mins every 2 weeks to filter out fish poop from the gravel and change the filters.

Easiest tanks are called 'species tanks' meaning all the same general
species. That could be all danios, or all mollies, or what have you. All Tetras work well!

Fish load is the most common new tank keeper mistake. Rule of thumb is about
1 gallon per inch of fish so in a 10G tank, you can reliably hold 10 small
fish of 1 inch. This starts to shift though with fish over 2 inches and they need more room. Don't look at the fish's current size, but what it will grow to be. If the tank depth isnt twice the size of the final adult fish, think
3 times before getting it.

We can play a little there with 6 inch max but not over. Aiming at most
being 5 or 4 inch.
xxcarol
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Hi Carol ;)

Hey Janis, if you want more info on how to start and what to get without breaking the piggy bank, this would be the place <g>.

You do not for instance, need a fancy stand if going with a smaller tank, say 10-20G. If it's in a heated room in winter, several types allow for down to 65F so you will not need a heater either.

The key thing is to setup the tank and let it run without fish (but with whatever you can find locally to partly cycle the tank) for 2 weeks at least.

Expect the water to get cloudy. Don't change it out. Just ride it out. It will get so cloudy you cant see though it eventually which is *good*. Suddenly one morning it is crystal clear. Happens all on it's own and all those fancy (expensive) chemicals to adjust this, are worthless or damaging to the cycle. (this true cloud happens only after you add fish)

Once cycled, a tank needs about 10 mins every 2 weeks to filter out fish poop from the gravel and change the filters.

Easiest tanks are called 'species tanks' meaning all the same general species. That could be all danios, or all mollies, or what have you. All Tetras work well!

Fish load is the most common new tank keeper mistake. Rule of thumb is about 1 gallon per inch of fish so in a 10G tank, you can reliably hold 10 small fish of 1 inch. This starts to shift though with fish over 2 inches and they need more room. Don't look at the fish's current size, but what it will grow to be. If the tank depth isnt twice the size of the final adult fish, think 3 times before getting it.

We can play a little there with 6 inch max but not over. Aiming at most being 5 or 4 inch.
xxcarol

Super :) Thanks for the info :)

Take care,
Janis

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* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Once cycled, a tank needs about 10 mins every 2 weeks to
filter out fish poop from the gravel and change the filters.

FWIW: i don't even do this... maybe possibly once every 6 to 12 months... i view my tanks in the same realm as a pond... however, i only feed my guys once every two or three days so i don't have the problems that others do who feed their's every day... i also don't have a lot of sunlight available to my tanks in addition to all of them having timers for the lighting which are only one for roughly the same amount of bright daylight as one gets in nature ;)

[trim]

Fish load is the most common new tank keeper mistake. Rule of
thumb is about 1 gallon per inch of fish so in a 10G tank, you can reliably hold 10 small fish of 1 inch. This starts to shift though
with fish over 2 inches and they need more room. Don't look at the
fish's current size, but what it will grow to be. If the tank
depth isnt twice the size of the final adult fish, think 3 times
before getting it.

you should see how big the four "goldfish" a friend got me are in my 30g tank... they're in there with the 4 remaining feeder guppies that i have... i'm
about to move those guppies over to my 20g beta tank and get some more... ya just can't beat $1US/dozen and they're the same ones that you pay higher prices
for because they're "pretty" :?

at one time i had some fishing minnows that i purchased at $1/dozen... they were around for 4+ years... the largest was larger than a big sardine you get in a can... fast and mean, too... very aggressive but they wouldn't/couldn't eat the snails and other things that came in with live plants... however, the one or two goldfish were quite happy to take care of those :lol:

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Once cycled, a tank needs about 10 mins every 2 weeks to
filter out fish poop from the gravel and change the filters.

FWIW: i don't even do this... maybe possibly once every 6 to 12 months... i view my tanks in the same realm as a pond... however, i only feed my guys on every two or three days so i don't have the problems that others do who feed their's every day... i also don't have a lot of sunlight available to my tan in addition to all of them having timers for the lighting which are only one for roughly the same amount of bright daylight as one gets in nature ;)

Hey that works! I was trying to average it. We'd actually do the vacumn
thing once a month with our goldfish and took about 20 mins (keep in mind
it's a big ass tank!).


Oh Janis? Or anyone else new to this who is curious? They have these really *simple* plastic tubes with a sort of funnel on the end. The tube is long (ours is 8ft) and flexible about like a garden hose. All you do is dunk the whole thing in the tankl to fill, then cover the small (no funnel) end with a finger then lift that part out into a bucket. Natural syphon and will do all that is needed. You use the funnel end to sort of vacumn the poop out of the gravel. Expect with goldfish (and others) to have the water look all groddy for a bit after but the filter will take care of that pretty fast.

[trim]

Fish load is the most common new tank keeper mistake. Rule of
thumb is about 1 gallon per inch of fish so in a 10G tank, you can reliably hold 10 small fish of 1 inch. This starts to shift though with fish over 2 inches and they need more room. Don't look at the fish's current size, but what it will grow to be. If the tank
depth isnt twice the size of the final adult fish, think 3 times
before getting it.

you should see how big the four "goldfish" a friend got me are in my 30g tank... they're in there with the 4 remaining feeder guppies that i have...

OH MY! I wouldnt have 4 goldfish in my 70G! Yes, when they are younger but once they grow, you will have a minimum 6 inch body (plus several for tail). The 'one gallon per inch' shifts totally when you exceed 2 inches of fish.
I'm told a goldie (and most other 6 inch fish but specifically a goldie)
needs more like 5g per inch. That would be 30G each. I could be wrong but it's stood me in good stead as a rule of thumb. I've seen folks say you are mistreating a fish if it doesnt have 10G per inch but lets face it, I dont
want a tank with a single oscar <G>.

about to move those guppies over to my 20g beta tank and get some more... ya just can't beat $1US/dozen and they're the same ones that you pay higher pri for because they're "pretty" :?

Oh I had guppies in the big tank too at one point. It was fun. I had
mollies as well but the guppies overbread the mollies eventually and we had just guppies. I am thinking to add mollies to this one but will need to add
a slighly agressive (eats small fry) fish to keep the tank in reasonable balance.

at one time i had some fishing minnows that i purchased at $1/dozen... they were around for 4+ years... the largest was larger than a big sardine you ge in a can... fast and mean, too... very aggressive but they wouldn't/couldn't eat the snails and other things that came in with live plants... however, th one or two goldfish were quite happy to take care of those :lol:

That would be cool!

Meantime, I bet you have a better than average filter going there. We do
too as well as 2 air fed bottom filters, and 2 'bubbler' decorations. If anything we are over airated just now but as we add the fish, that will work out.
xxcarol
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Super :) Thanks for the info :)

Welcome! I know you havent decided where or 'if' but you'll see other notes now. Someone else wanting to start a tank may want that info too! :closet fishkeepers may be lurking: ;-)

BTW, most of the time with a tank of the general size you were mentioning in the other echo (10-20) dont need a fancy stand. A deep bookshelf will do
just dandy if it's stable.

Also note Mark's comment about 'little sun'. What he means is it isnt set in
a window for direct sunlight. While you can do that it creates 2 problems.

One, the water can overheat and even if the room is in AC, the water might
hit very high (up to 90F) in the more southerly locations. In yours, would
not be shocked to see high 80's in summer. Most fish aint too happy at over 82F.

Two, the direct sun will cause algae growth all along the tank walls first
then everything else. Fish dont mind this (heck most of them think it's great!) but it isnt very pretty in the livingroom and battling that back can take 20 mins a week or more *forever* til you move the tank. This is in addition to other tank chores.

Honestly a well cycled tank is mostly self maintaining, but nothing will fix
it if you put it in direct sunlight.

But you want live plants? Direct sunlight will work well. What works better is the fabric plants (they look quite good) with a few real ones among them
and in my situation we had a direct sun plant tank used just to frow plants
and stock the bigger one with. For substrate there, we used a 2 inch layer
of kitty litter. The completely cheap totally clay pellet with no additives.
xxcarol
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