• Arch Linux

    From Chicken Head to All on Fri Jan 10 17:19:08 2020
    So is anyone using Arch Linux and can you convince me why I should even bother?

    I decided to try with Arch and it's...painful. I know they want to be "Linux from the ground up" but even basic things like setting up your network and basic stuff is painful. Needlessly painful.

    I am a fan of FreeBSD and I feel like they are trying to do what FreeBSD does...only wrong. Painful. FreeBSD can get you going from the ground up with minimal effort and pain. The FreeBSD guide is great. The Arch Wiki? Not so good. Bootstrapping Linux is not "fun" and the worst parts should be automated with a simple script. Getting all the way through, rebooting and finding there is no networking..that's bullshit. Networking should be part of the base install full stop. It's 2020 after all.

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"
    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.
  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to Chicken Head on Fri Jan 10 19:42:55 2020
    Re: Arch Linux
    By: Chicken Head to All on Fri Jan 10 2020 05:19 pm

    So is anyone using Arch Linux and can you convince me why I should even bother?

    Less painful, if you use Manjaro. Almost no compiling.

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net


    ... My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship ...
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Dark Matter BBS <<>> darkmatt.synchro.net <<>> (1:106/101)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Chicken Head on Sat Jan 11 10:35:06 2020
    Hello Chicken!

    10 Jan 20 17:19, Chicken Head wrote to All:

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through
    this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"

    It all depends on what you're actually looking for. Right now I can only guess.
    Ever tried Sabayon?


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 10:35AM up 4 days, 19:37, 5 users, load averages: 0.28, 0.32, 0.32

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: Shock to the System (2:240/12)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Chicken Head on Sat Jan 11 10:58:00 2020
    Chicken Head wrote to All <=-

    So is anyone using Arch Linux and can you convince me why I
    should even bother?

    I decided to try with Arch and it's...painful. I know they want
    to be "Linux from the ground up" but even basic things like
    setting up your network and basic stuff is painful. Needlessly
    painful.

    I am a fan of FreeBSD and I feel like they are trying to do what
    FreeBSD does...only wrong. Painful. FreeBSD can get you going
    from the ground up with minimal effort and pain. The FreeBSD
    guide is great. The Arch Wiki? Not so good. Bootstrapping
    Linux is not "fun" and the worst parts should be automated with a
    simple script. Getting all the way through, rebooting and
    finding there is no networking..that's bullshit. Networking
    should be part of the base install full stop. It's 2020 after
    all.

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through
    this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"

    Save yourself the time and aggravation of trying all that crap,
    and just install Slackware.


    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Chicken Head on Tue Jan 14 11:28:36 2020
    Hello Chicken!

    10 Jan 2020 17:19, Chicken Head wrote to All:

    So is anyone using Arch Linux and can you convince me why I should
    even bother?

    i keep away from percompiled problems :)

    I decided to try with Arch and it's...painful. I know they want to be "Linux from the ground up" but even basic things like setting up your network and basic stuff is painful. Needlessly painful.

    if you really like to be painfull try slackware

    I am a fan of FreeBSD and I feel like they are trying to do what
    FreeBSD does...only wrong. Painful. FreeBSD can get you going from
    the ground up with minimal effort and pain.

    no matter what you try you have to learn what is less painfull :)

    The FreeBSD guide is
    great. The Arch Wiki? Not so good. Bootstrapping Linux is not "fun" and the worst parts should be automated with a simple script.

    on gentoo there is catelyst to bootstrap binaries nearly into anything if gcc will build it

    Getting
    all the way through, rebooting and finding there is no
    networking..that's bullshit.

    you know openrc ?

    and the combo of kernel that have now new style network device names ?

    Networking should be part of the base
    install full stop. It's 2020 after all.

    boot a copy of systemresquecd, and see how lame gentoo is :)

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"

    please dont sweer in linux, you can boot anything if you like


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Will Milberger on Tue Jan 14 11:36:04 2020
    Hello Will!

    10 Jan 2020 19:42, Will Milberger wrote to Chicken Head:

    So is anyone using Arch Linux and can you convince me why I should
    even bother?

    Less painful, if you use Manjaro. Almost no compiling.

    so one like to be stock ?


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Dan Clough on Tue Jan 14 11:37:06 2020
    Hello Dan!

    11 Jan 2020 10:58, Dan Clough wrote to Chicken Head:

    Save yourself the time and aggravation of trying all that crap,
    and just install Slackware.

    +1

    running slackware64 at home on atom based motherboard, i dont need to compile anything at home, but i dont want precompiled things on servers, that include hobbyst things like fidonet :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Chicken Head to Gerrit Kuehn on Tue Jan 14 15:28:40 2020
    Re: Arch Linux
    By: Gerrit Kuehn to Chicken Head on Sat Jan 11 2020 10:35 am

    Hello Chicken!

    10 Jan 20 17:19, Chicken Head wrote to All:

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through
    this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"

    It all depends on what you're actually looking for. Right now I can only guess. Ever tried Sabayon?


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 10:35AM up 4 days, 19:37, 5 users, load averages: 0.28, 0.32, 0.32

    Good Question! I guess what I am looking for is what I got from FreeBSD...just a nice minimalist setup that I can build on, as opposed to say, Ubuntu where you get too much and end up removing what you don't want.

    This would be for a server-based system with minimal GUI (but still has X and maybe WindowMaker for when I need it).

    Now I like the idea of Arch's version of FreeBSD "ports." ALthough Debian promised something like that with apt-src and it is nowhere near ports. I haven't gotten to the point where I'Ve experienced Arch's version of "ports" since the install left me with no networking and I need to start over...which I'M not likely to do at this point.

    I suppose I can build "upwards" from Ubuntu or debian "server" but I just wanted to try something new I've heard lots of good things about.
    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.
  • From Chicken Head to Dan Clough on Tue Jan 14 15:31:37 2020
    Re: Re: Arch Linux
    By: Dan Clough to Chicken Head on Sat Jan 11 2020 10:58 am

    Chicken Head wrote to All <=-

    So is anyone using Arch Linux and can you convince me why I
    should even bother?

    I decided to try with Arch and it's...painful. I know they want
    to be "Linux from the ground up" but even basic things like
    setting up your network and basic stuff is painful. Needlessly painful.

    I am a fan of FreeBSD and I feel like they are trying to do what FreeBSD does...only wrong. Painful. FreeBSD can get you going
    from the ground up with minimal effort and pain. The FreeBSD
    guide is great. The Arch Wiki? Not so good. Bootstrapping
    Linux is not "fun" and the worst parts should be automated with a simple script. Getting all the way through, rebooting and
    finding there is no networking..that's bullshit. Networking
    should be part of the base install full stop. It's 2020 after
    all.

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through
    this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"

    Save yourself the time and aggravation of trying all that crap,
    and just install Slackware.


    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52


    You took the words right out of my mouth. It's been eons since I used Slackware last and I think I might give it a look again. For what it's worth I started out using the very ancient SLS distro that became Slack. Then got sucked into the RedHat/Mandrake/Debian/Ubuntu vortex (in that order).

    Is it true Slackware is still systemd free? Or do I have to use Devuan for that.
    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.
  • From Kai Richter@2:240/77 to Chicken Head on Wed Jan 15 02:36:42 2020
    Hello Chicken!

    14 Jan 20, Chicken Head wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    Ever tried Sabayon?

    Good Question! I guess what I am looking for is

    Just to be sure, do you know distrowatch.com?

    It's a nice entry point to get an overview what is available.

    As far as i can remember a filter function for the init system was added.

    Regards

    Kai

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
    * Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Chicken Head on Tue Jan 14 20:08:00 2020
    Chicken Head wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Convince me otherwise. Like Gentoo, I've gotten part way through
    this and realized "why the fuck am I doing this?"

    Save yourself the time and aggravation of trying all that crap,
    and just install Slackware.

    You took the words right out of my mouth. It's been eons since I
    used Slackware last and I think I might give it a look again.
    For what it's worth I started out using the very ancient SLS
    distro that became Slack. Then got sucked into the RedHat/Mandrake/Debian/Ubuntu vortex (in that order).

    I took the exact same path. FWIW, I really enjoyed Mandrake for a
    few years until it went to crap. Been on Slack since then.

    Is it true Slackware is still systemd free?

    Yes, it is free of that garbage, and likely always will be.

    Or do I have to use Devuan for that.

    I test-drove Devuan and found it not ready for prime time. Maybe
    it will get there eventually.

    One other non-systemd distro that I like a LOT is 'MX Linux'.
    It's also Debian based and quite nice.



    ... Forbidden fruit is responsible for many a bad jam.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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  • From Richard Falken to Chicken Head on Mon Jan 20 11:58:24 2020
    Re: Arch Linux
    By: Chicken Head to All on Fri Jan 10 2020 05:19 pm

    I decided to try with Arch and it's...painful. I know they want to be "Linux from the ground up" but even basic things like setting up your network and basic stuff is painful. Needlessly painful.

    I am not an Arch fan, but the few times I have set it up, I don't think it was that bad.

    Setting the basics from the ground up, for me, is getting Tiny Core Linux and having to COMPILE and PACKAGE the stuff you need, then enable it and load it in a custom Operating System image. Or better yet, having to build a toolchain in order to compile from the kernel up, including Glibc.

    Anyway, I am using Slackware for the BSD-like experience in Linux. Installation requires manual partitioning, but then the installer sets the basics via scripts. The base system is distributed in binary form, most extras can be built from Slackbuilds, which nowadays works like a ports system.
  • From Richard Falken to Chicken Head on Mon Jan 20 12:04:26 2020
    Re: Arch Linux
    By: Chicken Head to Gerrit Kuehn on Tue Jan 14 2020 03:28 pm

    Good Question! I guess what I am looking for is what I got from FreeBSD...just a nice minimalist setup that I can build on, as opposed to say, Ubuntu where you get too much and end up removing what you don't want.

    First alternative that comes to mind is OpenBSD. The default distribution is very compact but has a bit of everything you may need on a server. The userspace tools the OpenBSD team develops in-house (SSH, httpd, opensmtpd, etc.) are simple to configure and are well documented. They will fall short for _BIG_ deployments, but then you can replace them with more maisntream software (Apache, Ngynx, whatever).
  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to Richard Falken on Mon Jan 27 09:28:15 2020
    Re: Arch Linux
    By: Richard Falken to Chicken Head on Mon Jan 20 2020 11:58 am

    I decided to try with Arch and it's...painful. I know they want to be
    "Linux from the ground up" but even basic things like setting up your
    network and basic stuff is painful. Needlessly painful.

    For Arch without the pain, try Manjaro.

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net



    ... A fool must now and then be right by chance.
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
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