• life ?

    From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to All on Tue Dec 3 05:08:20 2019
    Hello All!

    ping for updates :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Dec 3 07:59:17 2019
    On 03 Dec 19 05:08:20, Benny Pedersen said the following to All:

    ping for updates :)

    Huh? Linux can't ping properly?

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Dec 3 11:44:14 2019
    Hello Benny,

    ping for updates :)

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a problem I had on the
    desktop.

    Things are looking good.

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Tue Dec 3 23:50:06 2019
    Hey Alan!

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a
    problem I had on the desktop.

    Huh? What problem on the desktop?

    Things are looking good.

    Always. :-)

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Dec 3 16:00:18 2019
    Hello Maurice,

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a
    problem I had on the desktop.

    Huh? What problem on the desktop?

    This is on my laptop. It runs Slackware 14.2 wonderfully but WiFi doesn't work.
    I can see my own and neighbors APs, I can see various signal strengths and connect to my own AP but I get no internet connection so I need to plug in a cable. That works well but there isn't always a wire available so I installed Slackware-current.

    Everything worked well with Slackware-current until somewhere around the 5.0 kernel. On Slackware 14.2 the radeon module is used and works well. With the newer kernels the amdgpu module is used.

    Everything boots up fine and I can run startx and all looks good. When I run some apps like firefox I don't see anything on the screen. I have to switch away to <Ctrl> <Alt> F6 or somewhere and switch back to <Ctrl> <Alt> F7 then I can see firefox on the screen.

    All seems to be good with the 5.4.1 kernel though, so onwards and upwards.. :)

    Ttyl :-),
    Al

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Deon George@3:633/509 to Alan Ianson on Wed Dec 4 11:32:11 2019
    Re: life ?
    By: Alan Ianson to Benny Pedersen on Tue Dec 03 2019 11:44 am

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a problem I had on the

    The kernel is up to 5.4 now? Gosh where have I been?
    ...δεσπ

    ... On a clear disk you can seek forever.
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Alan Ianson on Wed Dec 4 01:11:09 2019
    Hey Alan!

    It runs Slackware 14.2 wonderfully but WiFi doesn't work.

    Intel mpcie dealie? I am definetly not a big fan of those. Intel can keep them.

    Atheros based mpcie jobbers are the best and also work for AP and mesh modes whereas Intels and others don't, especially not for mesh. At the moment I have
    two hostapd machines working with usb Ralink 3070's as they give the best range which my neighbours appreciate. However they require a powered usb hub as they can and will screw up the onboard usb. In the case here both AP's don't have any keyboards, mice, displays etc. and I have to use ssh to connect to them to do maintence/upgrades/etc as well as fidonet messaging as exampled by this reply;

    -={ '<Esc>:r !uname -a' starts }=-
    Linux lilmikey 4.19.82 #1 SMP Sun Nov 10 14:16:54 UTC 2019 x86_64 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N2800 @ 1.86GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
    -={ '<Esc>:r !uname -a' ends }=-

    That works well but there isn't always a wire available so I
    installed Slackware-current.

    I used to do that way back when. Slackware was the best distribution for running on laptops back in the mid to late 1990's especially considering apm and cd bootablility issues. In fact the first live cd I ever saw was provided by Slackware back on 3.6 if I am recalling correctly. Them were the days.

    until somewhere around the 5.0 kernel.

    I lost 8 penguins on bootup using the earlier 5.0 kernels but regained them once I switched to grub instead of lilo. I prefer lilo but at the moment am using grub simply because of the 8 penguins. :::evil grin::: However that is on my workstation and not either of the AP's.

    -={ cut `n paste 'uname -a' starts }=-
    Linux mikey 5.4.1 #1 SMP Sat Nov 30 09:07:37 UTC 2019 x86_64 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU C2758 @ 2.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
    -={ cut `n paste 'uname -a' ends }=-

    As for AMD's I am thinking a Rysen 3 2200GE looks like something I'd be interested in ... if I could find one that is. So far no luck other than bragging sheets and the such. For an AM4 mini-itx board that might be worth spending a few dollars on.

    All seems to be good with the 5.4.1 kernel though, so onwards and upwards.. :)

    Excellent.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Dec 4 02:11:29 2019
    Hallo Maurice!

    PATH: 153/7001 757 250 770/1 280/464

    I see that we're back to the lameware (<- you know who you are) screwing up messages again. :::mutter, mutter, mutter:::

    Someone obviously knows no shame given the continual usage of pure, unadultered
    crap.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Dec 4 06:29:54 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    04 Dec 2019 02:11, Maurice Kinal wrote to Maurice Kinal:

    I see that we're back to the lameware (<- you know who you are)
    screwing up messages again. :::mutter, mutter, mutter:::

    Someone obviously knows no shame given the continual usage of pure, unadultered crap.

    ----- 00-abuse-port-1194.sh begins -----
    #!/bin/sh

    # grep ips in logs
    grep DPT=1194 /var/log/messages | cut -d "=" -f 5 | cut -d " " -f 1 | sort -hu >/tmp/abuse

    # reset out file with header
    echo "# abuse port 1194 begin" >/tmp/abuse.txt

    # loop until done all
    for i in $(cat /tmp/abuse)
    do
    echo "//" >>/tmp/abuse.txt
    php /usr/local/sbin/asn.php ${i} >>/tmp/abuse.txt
    grep "localhost kernel:" /var/log/messages | grep ${i} >>/tmp/abuse.txt
    done

    # add end header
    echo "# abuse port 1194 end" >>/tmp/abuse.txt

    # add all ips to the report
    echo "# all ips begin" >>/tmp/abuse.txt
    cat /tmp/abuse >>/tmp/abuse.txt
    echo "# all ips end" >>/tmp/abuse.txt

    # report to email in crontab
    cat /tmp/abuse.txt
    ----- 00-abuse-port-1194.sh ends -----

    life is borring :)

    i got tired of abuse that is not in my custommers ip ranges, so maked shorewall
    logs access if its outside of accept, then i have a sqlite asn db file to see whois, its not open gate, i just monitor it, yes i have a openvpn server for fun, where root CA is self signed

    i post it here so i now have backup, lol


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Wed Dec 4 07:39:04 2019
    Hallo Benny!

    ----- 00-abuse-port-1194.sh begins -----

    That isn't the issue in this case. In this case it is a lame tosser that is messing with messages, mine in particular which I am complaining about. It is purely a fidonet thing with certain node's tossers that is causing me grief. However thanks for the shell script which I always appreciate. :-)

    life is borring :)

    Only one 'r' in boring. ;-) Anyhow it isn't life that is boring that I am aware of. Sometimes I wish it was.

    i post it here so i now have backup, lol

    I've been known to do that.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Nick Andre on Wed Dec 4 10:29:34 2019
    Hello Nick!

    03 Dec 2019 07:59, Nick Andre wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    On 03 Dec 19 05:08:20, Benny Pedersen said the following to All:
    ping for updates :)
    Huh? Linux can't ping properly?

    stay on windows then :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Alan Ianson on Wed Dec 4 10:30:16 2019
    Hello Alan!

    03 Dec 2019 11:44, Alan Ianson wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a problem I
    had on the desktop.

    okay thats wild

    Things are looking good.

    indeed it is


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Deon George on Wed Dec 4 10:32:46 2019
    Hello Deon!

    04 Dec 2019 11:32, Deon George wrote to Alan Ianson:

    The kernel is up to 5.4 now? Gosh where have I been?
    ...≡??pi

    WinCE might still work ? :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Dec 4 10:34:36 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    04 Dec 2019 07:39, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    ----- 00-abuse-port-1194.sh begins -----

    That isn't the issue in this case. In this case it is a lame tosser
    that is messing with messages, mine in particular which I am
    complaining about. It is purely a fidonet thing with certain node's tossers that is causing me grief. However thanks for the shell script which I always appreciate. :-)

    i have another script for telnet :)

    the server have no telnetd installed or even running, it does not hold back bots to try still

    life is borring :)

    Only one 'r' in boring. ;-) Anyhow it isn't life that is boring that
    I am aware of. Sometimes I wish it was.

    i might need more water then alcohol :)

    i post it here so i now have backup, lol
    I've been known to do that.

    +1


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Wed Dec 4 12:58:16 2019
    Hallo Benny!

    i have another script for telnet :)

    You can keep it. ;-)

    the server have no telnetd installed or even running, it does not
    hold back bots to try still

    Sounds like a plan. I never did like bots.

    i might need more water then alcohol :)

    Heaven forbid that should happen. These days alcohol might be healthier than water.

    +1

    That is what this area has been missing. Velkommen tilbage.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to Alan Ianson on Wed Dec 4 11:11:44 2019
    Re: life ?
    By: Alan Ianson to Benny Pedersen on Tue Dec 03 2019 11:44 am

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a problem I had on the desktop.

    I got a new computer to replace the old one I got. The intel wifi card is an ax200. Supposedly that got a fix in that, so I guess I'm moving on up.

    Grease
    darmatt.synchro.net

    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Dark Matter BBS * darkmatt.synchro.net * Howdy! (1:106/101)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Dec 13 06:55:04 2019
    Hello Maurice!

    04 Dec 2019 12:58, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:


    i have another script for telnet :)
    You can keep it. ;-)

    monitoring bots is fun

    the server have no telnetd installed or even running, it does not
    hold back bots to try still
    Sounds like a plan. I never did like bots.

    bots do like me, so i have to make defence

    i might need more water then alcohol :)
    Heaven forbid that should happen. These days alcohol might be
    healthier than water.

    it already is here in danmark, and politicans want to see greenland delivery more :)

    +1
    That is what this area has been missing. Velkommen tilbage.

    atleast its only Latin-1 :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Will Milberger on Fri Dec 13 06:58:48 2019
    Hello Will!

    04 Dec 2019 11:11, Will Milberger wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I just updated my laptop with kernel 5.4.1 and it solves a problem I had
    on the desktop.

    I got a new computer to replace the old one I got. The intel wifi card
    is an ax200. Supposedly that got a fix in that, so I guess I'm moving
    on up.

    usb kernel drivers is moving now, many have secureity holes, not fun


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/4.19.86-gentoo (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Dec 13 07:56:54 2019
    Hallo Benny!

    monitoring bots is fun

    Since when? I think you need to get out more.

    it already is here in danmark, and politicans want to see
    greenland delivery more :)

    You must mean Hans Ø where according to Peter Taksøe-Jensen, "when Danish military go there, they leave a bottle of Schnapps. And when Canadian military forces come there, they leave a bottle of Canadian Club and a sign saying, 'Welcome to Canada.'"

    atleast its only Latin-1 :)

    Hvad er Latin-1? ... eller mente du LATIN1? Børn i disse dage. :::suk:::

    Looking at the above I am convinced google translate has butchered the true meaning somehow ... but what the heck.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Jan 7 17:45:30 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    13 Dec 2019 07:56, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    monitoring bots is fun
    Since when? I think you need to get out more.

    spamhaus :)

    it already is here in danmark, and politicans want to see
    greenland delivery more :)

    You must mean Hans |  where according to Peter Taks|⌐e-Jensen, "when Danish military go there, they leave a bottle of Schnapps. And when Canadian military forces come there, they leave a bottle of Canadian
    Club and a sign saying, 'Welcome to Canada.'"

    na i dont like canada, only good things in there country is truckers on ice :)

    atleast its only Latin-1 :)

    Hvad er Latin-1? ... eller mente du LATIN1? B|⌐rn i disse dage.
    :::suk:::

    jo du kender jo mig, og jeg husker spot paa amiga

    Looking at the above I am convinced google translate has butchered the true meaning somehow ... but what the heck.

    may my kernel be with me, new genkernel, new anything :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Jan 7 19:49:45 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    only good things in there country is truckers on ice

    Also the Canadian kids on ice who beat the Russian kids on ice to take the gold.

    jo du kender jo mig, og jeg husker spot paa amiga

    Amiga? Jeg troede, du er Commodore64.

    may my kernel be with me, new genkernel, new anything

    -={ '<Esc>:read !uname -a' starts }=-
    Linux heatsink 5.4.6 #1 SMP Sat Dec 21 17:34:18 UTC 2019 x86_64 Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU J3060 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
    -={ '<Esc>:read !uname -a' ends }=-

    As of today they are up to 5.4.8 but I haven't upgraded the EuroPoint ... yet.
    The above works great. Also glibc-2.31 should be out very soon. That is the next upgrade and I will probably get that working along with the newest kernel when that is released.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Jan 8 20:18:46 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    07 Jan 2020 19:49, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    -={ '<Esc>:read !uname -a' starts }=-
    Linux heatsink 5.4.6 #1 SMP Sat Dec 21 17:34:18 UTC 2019 x86_64
    Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU J3060 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
    -={ '<Esc>:read !uname -a' ends }=-

    ----- uname begins -----
    Linux localhost 5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Jan 7 00:13:51 UTC 2020 x86_64 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v3 @ 2.50GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
    ----- uname ends -----

    Life is good :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Benny Pedersen on Wed Jan 8 21:34:22 2020
    Hello Benny!

    08 Jan 20 20:18, Benny Pedersen wrote to Maurice Kinal:


    Life is good :)

    But it can be so much better:

    ---
    root:~ # uname -prs
    FreeBSD 11.3-RELEASE-p5 amd64
    ---


    ;)


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 9:34PM up 2 days, 6:36, 5 users, load averages: 0.39, 0.40, 0.39

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: Dry thoughts for the tenant (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Wed Jan 8 22:03:06 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    E5-2680 v3

    Nice. Do you get the 24 penguins on bootup?

    Life is good :)

    Of course it is, however 24 penguins on bootup might enhance life a bit. The best I can do at the moment is 8 cores, with 32G of DDR3 ECC which is a bit of overkill. I think 16G would be the sweet spot. For your E5-2680 I'd go with 48G but 24G might be the sweet spot on that particular CPU depending on what you use it for.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Gerrit Kuehn on Tue Jan 14 11:24:26 2020
    Hello Gerrit!

    08 Jan 2020 21:34, Gerrit Kuehn wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Life is good :)

    But it can be so much better:

    i only have tested freebsd 4.9 from 2 floppy drives installs :)

    -+-
    root:~ # uname -prs
    FreeBSD 11.3-RELEASE-p5 amd64
    -+-

    rebooting now


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Jan 14 11:25:34 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    08 Jan 2020 22:03, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    E5-2680 v3
    Nice. Do you get the 24 penguins on bootup?

    sadly no, its linode.com

    Life is good :)

    Of course it is, however 24 penguins on bootup might enhance life a
    bit. The best I can do at the moment is 8 cores, with 32G of DDR3 ECC which is a bit of overkill. I think 16G would be the sweet spot. For your E5-2680 I'd go with 48G but 24G might be the sweet spot on that particular CPU depending on what you use it for.

    i have to live more like amibian :)

    Amiga OS running on UAE with a raspberrypi

    see examples on utupe


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.8-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Jan 14 11:54:07 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    Nice. Do you get the 24 penguins on bootup?

    sadly no, its linode.com

    That is sad.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Jan 14 18:40:18 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    14 Jan 2020 11:54, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Nice. Do you get the 24 penguins on bootup?
    sadly no, its linode.com
    That is sad.

    is there any alternative ?, vps is always too expansive, sadly

    but the single core is still faster then my commodore 64 :)

    960$ pr mounth will give me full hardware speeds, and empty bank account


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.11-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Jan 14 19:21:28 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    is there any alternative ?

    Probably but then again I don't know since I don't have that issue here. I suspect the motherboard might have a "VGA compatible controller: ASPEED Technology, Inc. ASPEED Graphics Family" (<- the lspci entry on the octacore I have) which is quite popular on server boards these days. I have to build that
    into a linux kernel for it to give me 8 penguins on bootup.

    960$ pr mounth will give me full hardware speeds, and empty bank
    account

    Ouch! I hate when that happens.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Chicken Head to Benny Pedersen on Tue Jan 14 15:32:23 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Benny Pedersen to Gerrit Kuehn on Tue Jan 14 2020 11:24 am

    Hello Gerrit!

    08 Jan 2020 21:34, Gerrit Kuehn wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Life is good :)

    But it can be so much better:

    i only have tested freebsd 4.9 from 2 floppy drives installs :)

    -+-
    root:~ # uname -prs
    FreeBSD 11.3-RELEASE-p5 amd64
    -+-

    rebooting now


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    Heh..I still haven't moved to FreeBSD 12 yet myself.

    The AHK Gang! Live on Riot.im. When we feel like it.
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Jan 16 08:48:30 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    14 Jan 2020 19:21, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    boards these days. I have to build that into a linux kernel for it to give me 8 penguins on bootup.

    i have 8 core huawei p30 pro, with will do 4k @ 60 fps with hardware h265, what
    more do i need to use termux there ? :)

    add on is that i have a hdmi dongle to put in the phone usb-c port

    960$ pr mounth will give me full hardware speeds, and empty bank
    account
    Ouch! I hate when that happens.

    you got me :)

    rebooting....


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.11-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Chicken Head on Thu Jan 16 08:52:00 2020
    Hello Chicken!

    14 Jan 2020 15:32, Chicken Head wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Heh..I still haven't moved to FreeBSD 12 yet myself.

    i cant see a problem with it


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.4.11-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Jan 17 15:04:36 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    i have 8 core huawei p30 pro, with will do 4k @ 60 fps with
    hardware h265

    First time I've heard of that one. h265 is quite demanding.

    what more do i need to use termux there ? :)

    You don't need more. In fact you should be able to get away with far less. Why would anyone need hardware h265 just to get 24 penguins on bootup as well as a kickass linux terminal? If anything that machine soulds more suitable for
    video editting and the such.

    add on is that i have a hdmi dongle to put in the phone usb-c
    port

    Sounds like a plan except I have never seen one of those work on a regular linux terminal. From my limited understanding of such things you'll require an
    xorg driver for it.

    rebooting....

    :-)

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Jan 30 19:08:06 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    17 Jan 2020 15:04, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    i have 8 core huawei p30 pro, with will do 4k @ 60 fps with
    hardware h265

    First time I've heard of that one. h265 is quite demanding.

    +1

    what more do i need to use termux there ? :)

    You don't need more. In fact you should be able to get away with far less. Why would anyone need hardware h265 just to get 24 penguins on bootup as well as a kickass linux terminal? If anything that machine soulds more suitable for video editting and the such.

    maybe kernel 5.5 on any android would be in 2020 ? :)

    add on is that i have a hdmi dongle to put in the phone usb-c
    port

    Sounds like a plan except I have never seen one of those work on a regular linux terminal. From my limited understanding of such things you'll require an xorg driver for it.

    what hold you back to try one ?

    rebooting....

    :-)

    -+- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

    you loose :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.5.0-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Thu Jan 30 19:18:44 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    maybe kernel 5.5 on any android would be in 2020 ? :)

    Yeah right. I'll pass thank you very much. I much prefer a powerful gcc based
    OS.

    what hold you back to try one ?

    For one I don't need an additional video output as 2 out of the three machines I have running don't even have a monitor attached to their main video output(s). The one that does have a monitor attached is the 8 penguin machine and regular graphics work fine on there although I do have xorg running part time on there just to test GUI apps every now and then.

    -+- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

    you loose :)

    Huh? That is the latest version of bash. Which version are you using?

    As for kernels the latest one I have currently booting is 5.3.16 which is only a day old. As for 5.5.0 I usually wait until the 0 switches to 1 or greater before becoming curious about a new release. Also with glibc-2.31 soon to be released I'd prefer using a proven kernel while a glibc upgrade is in progress.
    Should be any day now. Are you ready for it?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Jan 30 22:05:50 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    30 Jan 2020 19:18, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Yeah right. I'll pass thank you very much. I much prefer a powerful
    gcc based OS.

    java is (im)possible to compile with gcc ?

    For one I don't need an additional video output as 2 out of the three machines I have running don't even have a monitor attached to their
    main video output(s).

    so 3 raspberrypi with ssh ?

    The one that does have a monitor attached is
    the 8 penguin machine and regular graphics work fine on there although
    I do have xorg running part time on there just to test GUI apps every
    now and then.

    nice it will try to get a ryzen, my old dell power edge t605 is old and needs help to stop my elekrical counter less speedy :)

    it have nice hardware such as a sas lto4 tape streammer, so tarballs could be backed up

    Huh? That is the latest version of bash. Which version are you
    using?

    ----- bash begins -----
    * app-shells/bash
    Available versions:
    (2.05b) [P]2.05b_p13
    (3.0) [P]3.0_p22
    (3.1) [P]3.1_p23
    (3.2) [P]3.2_p57
    (4.0) [P]4.0_p44
    (4.1) [P]4.1_p17
    (4.2) [P]4.2_p53
    (4.3) [P]4.3_p48-r2
    (0) 4.4_p23-r1 ~5.0_p9 ~5.0_p11
    IUSE (all versions): afs bashlogger examples mem-scramble +net nls plugins
    +readline static
    Installed versions: Version: 4.4_p23-r1
    Date: 12:46:19 AM 01/18/2019
    USE: net readline -afs -bashlogger -examples -mem-scramble -nls -plugins
    DEPEND: >=sys-libs/ncurses-5.2-r2:0/6= >=sys-libs/readline-7.0:0/7=
    RDEPEND: ${DEPEND} !<sys-apps/portage-2.1.6.7_p1
    SRC_URI:
    EAPI: 6
    Best versions/slot: 4.4_p23-r1
    Package sets: system
    Homepage: http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/bash/bashtop.html
    Find open bugs: https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=app-shells%2Fbash
    Description: The standard GNU Bourne again shell
    License: GPL-3

    ----- bash ends -----

    there i am

    As for kernels the latest one I have currently booting is 5.3.16 which
    is only a day old. As for 5.5.0 I usually wait until the 0 switches
    to 1 or greater before becoming curious about a new release.

    okay

    ----- gentoo-sources begins -----
    * sys-kernel/gentoo-sources
    Available versions:
    (4.4.203) 4.4.203^bs
    (4.4.209) (~)4.4.209^bs
    (4.4.210) 4.4.210^bs
    (4.4.211) (~)4.4.211^bs
    (4.4.212) (~)4.4.212^bs
    (4.9.203) 4.9.203^bs
    (4.9.209) (~)4.9.209^bs
    (4.9.210) 4.9.210^bs
    (4.9.211) (~)4.9.211^bs
    (4.9.212) (~)4.9.212^bs
    (4.14.156) 4.14.156^bs
    (4.14.164) (~)4.14.164^bs
    (4.14.165) (~)4.14.165^bs
    (4.14.166) 4.14.166^bs
    (4.14.167) (~)4.14.167^bs
    (4.14.168) (~)4.14.168^bs
    (4.14.169) (~)4.14.169^bs
    (4.19.86) 4.19.86^bs
    (4.19.95) (~)4.19.95^bs
    (4.19.96) (~)4.19.96^bs
    (4.19.97) 4.19.97^bs
    (4.19.98) (~)4.19.98^bs
    (4.19.99) (~)4.19.99^bs
    (4.19.100) (~)4.19.100^bs
    (5.4.10) (~)5.4.10^bs
    (5.4.11) (~)5.4.11^bs
    (5.4.12) (~)5.4.12^bs
    (5.4.13) (~)5.4.13^bs
    (5.4.14) (~)5.4.14^bs
    (5.4.15) (~)5.4.15^bs
    (5.4.16) (~)5.4.16^bs
    (5.5.0) (~)5.5.0^bs
    IUSE (all versions): build experimental symlink
    Installed versions: Version: 5.5.0(5.5.0)^bs
    Date: 08:04:24 PM 01/28/2020
    USE: symlink -build -experimental
    DEPEND: sys-apps/sed >=sys-devel/binutils-2.11.90.0.31
    RDEPEND: dev-lang/perl sys-devel/bc sys-devel/bison
    sys-devel/flex sys-devel/make >=sys-libs/ncurses-5.2 virtual/libelf
    SRC_URI:
    EAPI: 6
    Best versions/slot: 4.4.203(4.4.203)^bs (~)4.4.209(4.4.209)^bs 4.4.210(4.4.210)^bs (~)4.4.211(4.4.211)^bs (~)4.4.212(4.4.212)^bs 4.9.203(4.9.203)^bs (~)4.9.209(4.9.209)^bs 4.9.210(4.9.210)^bs (~)4.9.211(4.9.211)^bs (~)4.9.212(4.9.212)^bs 4.14.156(4.14.156)^bs (~)4.14.164(4.14.164)^bs (~)4.14.165(4.14.165)^bs 4.14.166(4.14.166)^bs (~)4.14.167(4.14.167)^bs (~)4.14.168(4.14.168)^bs (~)4.14.169(4.14.169)^bs 4.19.86(4.19.86)^bs (~)4.19.95(4.19.95)^bs (~)4.19.96(4.19.96)^bs 4.19.97(4.19.97)^bs (~)4.19.98(4.19.98)^bs (~)4.19.99(4.19.99)^bs (~)4.19.100(4.19.100)^bs (~)5.4.10(5.4.10)^bs (~)5.4.11(5.4.11)^bs (~)5.4.12(5.4.12)^bs (~)5.4.13(5.4.13)^bs (~)5.4.14(5.4.14)^bs (~)5.4.15(5.4.15)^bs (~)5.4.16(5.4.16)^bs (~)5.5.0(5.5.0)^bs
    Homepage: https://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches
    Find open bugs: https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sys-kernel%2Fgentoo-sources
    Description: Full sources including the Gentoo patchset for the 5.5 kernel tree
    License: GPL-2

    ----- gentoo-sources ends -----

    Also
    with glibc-2.31 soon to be released I'd prefer using a proven kernel while a glibc upgrade is in progress. Should be any day now. Are you ready for it?

    ----- glibc begins -----
    * sys-libs/glibc
    Available versions: (2.2) [M]~2.19-r2^s [M]~2.24-r4^s [M]2.25-r11^s [M]2.26-r7^s [M]2.27-r6^s 2.28-r6^st 2.29-r2^st 2.29-r7^t ~2.30-r2^t ~2.30-r3^t
    **9999*l^t
    IUSE (all versions): audit caps cet compile-locales +crypt custom-cflags debug doc gd hardened headers-only +multiarch multilib nscd profile +rpc selinux +ssp +static-libs suid systemtap test vanilla
    Installed versions: Version: 2.29-r7(2.2)^t
    Date: 02:12:43 AM 01/06/2020
    USE: multiarch ssp -audit -caps -cet -compile-locales -doc -gd -headers-only -multilib -nscd -profile -selinux -suid
    -systemtap -test -vanilla
    DEPEND: virtual/os-headers sys-devel/gnuconfig
    RDEPEND: sys-apps/gentoo-functions >=net-dns/libidn2-2.0.5
    PDEPEND: sys-libs/timezone-data
    BDEPEND: || ( dev-lang/python:3.7 dev-lang/python:3.6 ) >=app-misc/pax-utils-0.1.10 sys-devel/bison !<sys-devel/bison-2.7 !<sys-devel/make-4 >=sys-devel/binutils-2.24 >=sys-devel/gcc-6 virtual/pkgconfig
    SRC_URI:
    EAPI: 7
    Best versions/slot: 2.29-r7(2.2)^t
    Homepage: https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/
    Find open bugs: https://bugs.gentoo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=sys-libs%2Fglibc
    Description: GNU libc C library
    License: LGPL-2.1+ BSD HPND ISC inner-net rc PCRE

    ----- glibc ends -----

    pengiuns on 9999 have no way back :)

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    yes, i got openvpn solved, it was simple CRL expire :)

    i will take my weekend now


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.5.0-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Thu Jan 30 22:41:36 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    java is (im)possible to compile with gcc ?

    Yes. Speaking for myself java died when Sun Microsystems went out of business but to be honest java was never doable on any of my systems ever. Why would you want java?

    so 3 raspberrypi with ssh ?

    I only have one and at the moment it isn't running. The 3 that I am using are all x86_64 although I am keeping an eye on the risc-v development but so far it
    is only out of curiousity. As for the raspi3b+ I have, my plan is to get it working with pure DC input sometime this summer. I am toying with the idea of using the new lithium iron phosphate batteries which are very expensive at the moment.

    it have nice hardware such as a sas lto4 tape streammer

    Too expensive. Also I haven't messed with tape drives since the early 1990's and did have access to external scsi exabyte drives but mostly worked with ye olde 9 track tapes. I'll stick with sata drives for now since they are way cheaper than tape.

    nice it will try to get a ryzen

    I might do the same soon.

    Installed versions: Version: 4.4_p23-r1

    Tsk, tsk.

    -={ "<Esc>:read !ldd /bin/bash | sed 's/^\t//g'" starts }=-
    linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffc6b0eb000)
    libreadline.so.8 => /lib/libreadline.so.8 (0x00007fce0b731000)
    libhistory.so.8 => /lib/libhistory.so.8 (0x00007fce0b725000)
    libncursesw.so.6 => /lib/libncursesw.so.6 (0x00007fce0b6cc000)
    libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x00007fce0b6c7000)
    libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x00007fce0b546000)
    /lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007fce0b77c000)
    -={ "<Esc>:read !ldd /bin/bash | sed 's/^\t//g'" ends }=-

    I added a sed to eliminate the preceding tabs on every line which ftn software has issues with. As you can see above all the dependencies are pure 64 bit. Same with on the raspi3b+. I see no good reason for multilib.

    Installed versions: Version: 2.29-r7(2.2)^t

    -={ '<Esc>:read /lib/libc.so.6' starts }=-
    GNU C Library (GNU libc) stable release version 2.30.
    Copyright (C) 2019 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
    There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
    PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
    Compiled by GNU CC version 9.2.0.
    libc ABIs: UNIQUE IFUNC ABSOLUTE
    For bug reporting instructions, please see: <http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/bugs.html>.
    -={ '<Esc>:read /lib/libc.so.6' ends }=-

    That will probably change to 2.31 after this weekend if things go smooth.

    i will take my weekend now

    I plan to work this weekend.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Fri Jan 31 17:59:14 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    30 Jan 20 22:41, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Yes. Speaking for myself java died when Sun Microsystems went out of business but to be honest java was never doable on any of my systems ever. Why would you want java?

    I have a smarthome solution that is running on java (on an RPI) just fine. Java
    certainly has its place for many different things, I'm using it for more than 20 years now. Strong-typed, platform-independent, memory-safe, fast... I like it.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 5:59PM up 12 days, 8:56, 6 users, load averages: 0.34, 0.39, 0.36

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: We are the second generation (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Fri Jan 31 22:55:42 2020
    Hallo Gerrit!

    I have a smarthome solution that is running on java (on an RPI)
    just fine.

    Which OS and what java compiler or do you cross-compile for it? Either way I am guessing openjdk which is Oracle's vertsion of the java they 'inherited' from Sun Microsystems when they bought them out.

    Java certainly has its place for many different things, I'm using
    it for more than 20 years now. Strong-typed,
    platform-independent, memory-safe, fast... I like it.

    It was the platform independent part which almost 'suckered' me in way back in the early 1990's sometime. At the time I had access to Sparc machines which is
    where all the good stuff was especially the gcc compilers which at the time was
    my goto compiler. After doing some research on java at the time I stuck with straight gcc and haven't looked back since. If I had been more of a 'regular' user java might have won me over but I was already used to doing everything in C or C-like (eg shell scripting) so there was never an appeal to java since my home pc was also C based ... albiet running a DOS ... not MS btw. ;-)

    If Linux hadn't come along I would probably be running FreeBSD now ... or nothing. Linux was a godsend - especially Slackware - and gcc greatly assisted
    the yummy builtin godsendness. So much for java.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 1 11:20:38 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    31 Jan 20 22:55, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    I have a smarthome solution that is running on java (on an RPI)
    just fine.

    Which OS and what java compiler or do you cross-compile for it?

    The stuff is OSS, but I don't compile it myself, I just let the vendor or the community do the legwork. But I can ssh into the RPI and see that there is Linux installed and pretty much everything else running under java (openjdk8). The community-driven version is called Raspberrymatic: https://raspberrymatic.de/

    IMHO, many people do not recognise that embedded platforms and such were the original target market for java when it was invented by Sun's engineers.

    Either way I am guessing openjdk which is Oracle's vertsion of the
    java they 'inherited' from Sun Microsystems when they bought them
    out.

    Sure, OpenJDK is the quasi-standard these days. GNU people quit on gcj long ago, but there is quite a bunch of different projects based on OpenJDK meanwhile:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK#OpenJDK_builds

    java might have won me over but I was already used to doing
    everything in C or C-like (eg shell scripting) so there was never an appeal to java since my home pc was also C based ... albiet running a
    DOS ... not MS btw. ;-)

    Selecting a language heavily depends on the intended use and context. If it is just for yourself, there is far less to consider than in other circumstances.

    If Linux hadn't come along I would probably be running FreeBSD now
    ... or nothing. Linux was a godsend - especially Slackware - and gcc greatly assisted the yummy builtin godsendness. So much for java.

    Ah, well, in some places gcc really sucked, but they improved many things over the years. What I don't really like these days is the habit of doing major releases by the calendar, but many other projects have picked up that, too. Everything develops into the direction of more or less doing rolling releases for everything. I can live with that, but it makes maintenance for "appliances"
    that are supposed to "just work" based on this software a real hassle at times.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 11:20AM up 13 days, 2:17, 6 users, load averages: 0.36, 0.43, 0.40

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: All carefully conceived (2:240/12)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Gerrit Kuehn on Sat Feb 1 08:41:29 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Gerrit Kuehn to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 01 2020 11:20:38


    IMHO, many people do not recognise that embedded platforms and such
    were the original target market for java when it was invented by
    Sun's engineers.

    at least two perfect examples of this are the Opportunity and Spirit rovers on Mars ;)


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Sat Feb 1 15:29:08 2020
    Hallo Gerrit!

    The stuff is OSS, but I don't compile it myself, I just let the
    vendor or the community do the legwork.

    Does that include "Msged/BSD 6.1.2" and/or "hpt/fbsd 1.9.0-cur 08-05-14"?

    many people do not recognise that embedded platforms and such
    were the original target market for java when it was invented by
    Sun's engineers

    I've run across many such things over the years. Nothing much lately but then again I don't usually follow embedded development for the mostpart.

    Selecting a language heavily depends on the intended use and
    context.

    Development would be of primary interest as far as I am concerned and thus an embedded enviroment is more of a curiousity than an actual working enviroment up to and including the raspi3b+ I happen to have built a LFS-ish for. That was fun for awhile. Absolutely zero java on there as everything was (is?) gcc/glibc based. I haven't worked on it for about a year now as I have little to nothing for it to actually do for the network I have working for the "cause"
    whatever the "cause" might happen to be. Getting a working pure 64-bit aarch64-linux-gnu enviroment was my prime motivation at the time and I believe I had done a good job.

    in some places gcc really sucked

    Example(s)? The only one I can claim any experience with would be any 16-bit DOS enviroment running on 32-bit processors. :::shudder::: What a bad joke that whole concept turned out to be.

    but it makes maintenance for "appliances" that are supposed to
    "just work" based on this software a real hassle at times

    Agreed. In my case the lack of appliances that "just work" are the usual source of grief which means having working gcc/glibc enviroment to take care of
    things that actually matter is the prime motivation for all the systems under my care. Mind you I have yet to send anything out to explore the universe on it's own so perhaps I am looking at "appliances" the wrong way?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Gerrit Kuehn@2:240/12 to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 1 17:44:24 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    01 Feb 20 15:29, Maurice Kinal wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

    The stuff is OSS, but I don't compile it myself, I just let the
    vendor or the community do the legwork.

    Does that include "Msged/BSD 6.1.2" and/or "hpt/fbsd 1.9.0-cur
    08-05-14"?

    No, of course not. That's FTN software, not smarthome.

    I've run across many such things over the years. Nothing much lately
    but then again I don't usually follow embedded development for the mostpart.

    My personal impression as of lately is that pretty much everything I have to deal with is moving towards python... not that I would prefer that over java or
    anything else, but that's what it looks like to me.

    in some places gcc really sucked

    Example(s)? The only one I can claim any experience with would be
    any 16-bit DOS enviroment running on 32-bit processors.
    :::shudder::: What a bad joke that whole concept turned out to be.

    Compatibility issues all over the place (mainly in versions 2.x and 3.x afaicr)
    due to ABI changes. I remember so many situations where I had to recompile each
    and every library a project was using (i.e., pretty much the whole OS) before I
    could use a newer compiler I needed for an updated software (due to changes in the C standard and/or the way gcc was treating it).
    In comparison, java tends to keep compatibility with older code much better.

    Agreed. In my case the lack of appliances that "just work" are the
    usual source of grief which means having working gcc/glibc enviroment
    to take care of things that actually matter is the prime motivation
    for all the systems under my care. Mind you I have yet to send
    anything out to explore the universe on it's own so perhaps I am
    looking at "appliances" the wrong way?

    Don't know. Most systems I take care of are used by other people, and these usually follow a "if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it" strategy.


    Regards,
    Gerrit

    ... 5:44PM up 13 days, 8:41, 6 users, load averages: 1.71, 0.74, 0.51

    --- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
    * Origin: Is serving every man (2:240/12)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Gerrit Kuehn on Sat Feb 1 18:08:50 2020
    Hallo Gerrit!

    My personal impression as of lately is that pretty much
    everything I have to deal with is moving towards python

    I've noticed that too.

    and these usually follow a "if it ain't broken, don't try to fix
    it" strategy

    I prefer the more 'traditional' Canadian, "if it ain't broken you aren't trying
    hard enough" strategy.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Maurice Kinal on Thu Feb 13 22:40:06 2020
    Hello Maurice!

    30 Jan 2020 22:41, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    Yes. Speaking for myself java died when Sun Microsystems went out of business but to be honest java was never doable on any of my systems ever. Why would you want java?

    without java there would not be any android devices

    so 3 raspberrypi with ssh ?
    I only have one and at the moment it isn't running.

    yes same happend with all my devices, lost time and spirrit with them

    The 3 that I am
    using are all x86_64 although I am keeping an eye on the risc-v development but so far it is only out of curiousity.

    good or bad ?

    As for the
    raspi3b+ I have, my plan is to get it working with pure DC input
    sometime this summer.

    it can be simple as a power bank imho but to make it redudendant power banked is not that simple

    I am toying with the idea of using the new
    lithium iron phosphate batteries which are very expensive at the
    moment.

    will explode ?

    it have nice hardware such as a sas lto4 tape streammer

    Too expensive.

    more likely too expansive to use :)

    Also I haven't messed with tape drives since the early
    1990's and did have access to external scsi exabyte drives but mostly worked with ye olde 9 track tapes.

    i got a sysquest drive, looked like it was a new 8" floppy disk in cartridge design :)

    I'll stick with sata drives for
    now since they are way cheaper than tape.

    yes maybe


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.5.2-gentoo-r1-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Benny Pedersen on Thu Feb 13 23:21:26 2020
    Hallo Benny!

    without java there would not be any android devices

    Amen! I could *EASILY* live with there being zero android devices in this world. Anyhow I get the impression that Google would prefer that it didn't and
    that Google Go will replace java ... and python while it's at it. :::evil grin::: We'll see.

    good or bad ?

    So far neither. The risc-v processor was supposed to go mainstream last June but for whatever reason it there still isn't a production release of it/them ... yet. I don't know what the holdup on them and the evaluation boards I see are all way to expensive at this point in time. However if they do manage to pull off a release then it *should* be as opensource hardware which is a good thing methinks. I can wait ... as if I have a choice.

    will explode ?

    Not yet but they haven't been out that long to see what issues there are with LiFePO4 battereis at this point in time. Theoretically there should be no issues with explosions and/or fires since adding iron to the mix supposedly makes them more stable than the lithium ion ones, or so the story goes. However they are VERY expensive compared to the more traditional batteries used
    in ups's and the such. If they are as half as good as they claim then one has to look at this as a long term situation. Right now I cannot afford this but am making a future plan given that nothing major happens in the meantime, such as an explosion and/or fire.

    i got a sysquest drive, looked like it was a new 8" floppy disk in cartridge design

    I've never seen one of those yet. Most of the ones I've seen in the real world
    are/were HP DAT drives with the cartridges being a tad larger than the tapes they used in answering machines from way back when. Beats me what they sell for these days but I am betting sata drives are cheaper per byte and much faster.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From DENZUKO@1:124/5017 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Feb 14 07:36:57 2020
    without java there would not be any android devices


    Not true; We had openmoko and symbian/palmOS before android and those where C based SDKs.

    Android just went with java because its what thier team understood and at the time was the most popluar language on the market. Now, if they kept to
    openmoko code that inspired android then C would be dominate powering
    language on android.

    Of course neither of this is the case these days since most apps are just
    using some wrapper around webkit and html5/javascript or unity these days.

    Best Regards,
    Dwight Spencer at 1:124/5017.0
    Origin: XM Core BBS - bbs.dapla.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/02 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: XM Core (1:124/5017)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Benny Pedersen on Sat Feb 15 12:24:00 2020
    02-13-20 22:40 Benny Pedersen wrote to Maurice Kinal about life ?
    Howdy! Benny,

    @MSGID: <5E45E388.6774.fi-linux@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <5E33A878.6741.fi-linux@capitolcityonline.net>
    Hello Maurice!

    30 Jan 2020 22:41, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:
    -snip-
    Also I haven't messed with tape drives since the early
    1990's and did have access to external scsi exabyte drives but mostly worked with ye olde 9 track tapes.

    i got a sysquest drive, looked like it was a new 8" floppy disk in cartridge design :)

    In the late 1970's or 1980's, a Ham Radio Friend who started out using
    a Apple ][ later got a IBM PC (Compatiablle ???), and told Me
    (on Packet Radio) that He was using a SyQuest Removable Disk Drive.

    I asked him to let me come over and see what that Drive looked like.

    He showed me the Cartridge for His SyQuest Drive, it had a Metal Platter instead of Flexible Media like the Iomega Bernoulli Cartridges had inside
    their Cartridges at that time.

    The SyQuest Cartridge He showed Me held 44 MB and was the same size as a
    360 KB Floppy Disk (5.25 Inch), and told me the US Air Force had bought
    a lot of those Drives to use on their computers.

    I think His Drive connected to the pc with a SCSI Cable.

    When Iomega started advertising the ZIP100 Removable Cartridge Drive, I
    saw an article in Popular Electronics or Radio-Electronics Magazine
    that said the Zip100 Drive used flexible media in its Cartridge.

    Around that time I had also read that SyQuest was designing a Drive with a
    135 MB Removable Cartridge.

    Iomega started selling the ZIP100 long before SyQuest had began selling
    their EZ135, but I waited because I wanted to make MY Back-Ups on Metal Platters instead of Flexible Plastic media.

    A couple of people at the Church I attend talked to me about how they
    enjoyed using their ZIP100 Drive and I told them I didn't want to Save to Floppies, I wanted to Save my stuff to Metal Platters like was used in the
    Hard Drives inside of computers, so I'd rather wait until SyQuest started selling their new model (of course I told them Metal is Better than Plastic).

    When SyQuest started selling their EZ135 I bought one as soon as I could.
    I wanted to use it to make Back-Ups of the 2 HDD's in my 486 instead of using
    a bunch of 1.44 MB 3.5 Inch Floppy Disks anymore.

    I'll stick with sata drives for
    now since they are way cheaper than tape.

    As for Me and this XP pc I like SATA Drives.
    The 250 GB SATA HDD in this XP computer was just about full so I replaced it with a 2 TB SATA HDD.

    I bought a Tripp-Lite U238-000-1 USB 2.0 to SATA / IDE Adapter to make Back-Up's for my XP pc on to a Internal SATA Hard Drive instead of to the External USB HDD's I used earlier to make Back-Up's for the XP.

    [* Pause for a second thought *]

    Some years later I saw another Tripp-Lite product to plug Internal SATA HDD's in to that had a cover for the Drive instead of everything being out in the open ( 'jury rigged' ) like the model I had did.

    It wss Tripp-Lite's Model Number U339-001-FLAT USB 3.0 to SATA Hard Drive Lay-Flat Quick Dock Enclosure for 3.5 Inch HDD and SSD.

    It was ON SALE so I called the Company about buying Two of them
    (for the Two Drives I use to Back Up to) and the Total Price quoted to me
    was SKY HIGH, so I asked the salesman and was told the Cost for Shipping
    was higher for that item.
    I told the Man I thought the Shipping Charge was way too high for a small
    thing like that and didn't order to Two I wanter to get.

    I called Tripp-Lite and learned how much one of them weighted and Emailed
    that information to the Salesman but He wouldn't change the Cost for
    Shipping, so I told Him I wouldn't pay that much for those Back Up boxes.

    I then tried to look to see what other Companies had the Price for that
    item and saw a much higher selling price for that thing everywhere else.

    The Company still has them for sale but af a Higher Price than what Their
    "Sale Price" was.

    [* Back to my orginal topic *]

    I have Two 2 TB SATA External HDD's that I alternate putting Back-Up's on.

    After several years of use those Two Drives were getting full [ I've kept all of the Back-Up's I've made ;-) ].

    I saw a 4 TB External USB HDD for sale at a very good price and tried to use
    it for the XP pc but it wasn't recognized so I tried it on the Vista pc and learned it could be used on that pc.

    (I've wondered if before I started using it on the Vista pc if I had made
    2 Partitions on that 4 TB Drive - if XP would had been able to "SEE" it?

    I "think" so, but there is too much data on that 4 TB'er now for me to try Partitoning it.

    73 de Ed W9ODR

    ... Have you checked your smoke detector batteries & Fire Ext, LATELY?!
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 22 15:25:23 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Benny Pedersen on Thu Feb 13 2020 11:21 pm

    Hallo Benny!

    without java there would not be any android devices

    Amen! I could *EASILY* live with there being zero android devices in this world. Anyhow I get the impression that Google would prefer that it didn't and that Google Go will replace java ... and python while it's at it. :::evil grin::: We'll see.

    https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/197031/why-does-gmail-use-java-is-there-really-a-advantage-over-something-like-php-or

    https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Google-use-Java-instead-of-Python-for-Gmail

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #15:
    CVS = Concurrent Versioning System
    Norco, CA WX: 58.1°F, 63.0% humidity, 4 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Sun Feb 23 00:33:54 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    Does any of that take into account the licensing issues Google had with Oracle?
    There was talk ages ago about Oracle suing Google over java and Google originally tried to hide behind the GNU license and later Apache without any support of backing from either GNU or Apache regarding java. What happened after that I never found out and have long since forgot about it until now ... not that any of it really matters to me one way or the other.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 29 12:56:09 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Sun Feb 23 2020 12:33 am

    Does any of that take into account the licensing issues Google had with Oracle?

    I don't think so. I imagine there's some group(s) within Google that are schemeing to switch from Java to Go/Haskell/Julia/whatever-new-language, but sometimes the business justification for such efforts just aren't there.

    e.g. Microsoft still uses "good ole" C++ for their Office product development rather than the C#/CRL/.NET stack they suggest everyone else uses.

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #70:
    SyncEdit = A defunct 3rd party full-screen editor written for Synchronet
    Norco, CA WX: 70.5°F, 27.0% humidity, 0 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 29 22:03:19 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    I imagine there's some group(s) within Google that are schemeing
    to switch from Java to Go/Haskell/Julia/whatever-new-language,
    but sometimes the business justification for such efforts just
    aren't there.

    Understood. However for startups - or progressive oldtimers - who have choices
    one would think they would choose a well supported compiler that has a future rather than one that may have a glorious past without much of a foreseeable future.

    e.g. Microsoft still uses "good ole" C++ for their Office product development rather than the C#/CRL/.NET stack they suggest
    everyone else uses.

    No surprises there. Anyhow c++ has a vibrant present as well as a half-decent shot at a future so the above factoid has little prospects as it pertains to java. The embedded gurus can keep it ... along with the rest of the abandonware coming from that direction.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Sat Feb 29 21:45:55 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Sat Feb 29 2020 10:03 pm

    Hallo Rob!

    I imagine there's some group(s) within Google that are schemeing
    to switch from Java to Go/Haskell/Julia/whatever-new-language,
    but sometimes the business justification for such efforts just
    aren't there.

    Understood. However for startups - or progressive oldtimers - who have choices one would think they would choose a well supported compiler that has a future rather than one that may have a glorious past without much of a foreseeable future.

    Not sure which compiler of those languages I mentioned hast the glorious past without much of a foreseeable future. Java?

    e.g. Microsoft still uses "good ole" C++ for their Office product development rather than the C#/CRL/.NET stack they suggest
    everyone else uses.

    No surprises there. Anyhow c++ has a vibrant present as well as a half-decent shot at a future so the above factoid has little prospects as it pertains to java. The embedded gurus can keep it ... along with the rest of the abandonware coming from that direction.

    It was just another example of how some large influential tech firms don't always "eat their own dog food".

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #62:
    SEXYZ = Synchronet External X/Y/ZMODEM file transfer protocol driver
    Norco, CA WX: 51.4°F, 89.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Sun Mar 1 16:43:20 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    Java?

    Yes. I believe java was the language that originally prompted this discussion ... or was it clang vs gcc? I forget now.

    don't always "eat their own dog food"

    That can happen. Speaking for myself I don't knowingly consume any java products to honour the fallen. As of this writing everything here requires gcc
    including llvm (clang) and the only reason for llvm has to do with xorg and absolutely zero to do with the console thank goodness. However I still plan to
    try recompiling glibc with clang when llvm-10 becomes official which should be very soon. I am just a tad too curious about the claim of a clang based OS, which from the angle looks to be highly suspicious thus far. I have yet to see
    any real evidence. How about you?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Mon Mar 2 00:17:32 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Sun Mar 01 2020 04:43 pm

    Hallo Rob!

    Java?

    Yes. I believe java was the language that originally prompted this discussion ...

    You're saying Java doesn't have a foreseeable future?

    or was it clang vs gcc? I forget now.

    Um... clang and gcc aren't programming languages.

    don't always "eat their own dog food"

    That can happen. Speaking for myself I don't knowingly consume any java products to honour the fallen. As of this writing everything here requires gcc including llvm (clang) and the only reason for llvm has to do with xorg and absolutely zero to do with the console thank goodness. However I still plan to try recompiling glibc with clang when llvm-10 becomes official which should be very soon. I am just a tad too curious about the claim of a clang based OS, which from the angle looks to be highly suspicious thus far. I have yet to see any real evidence. How about you?

    I'm not really sure what you're talking about. You seem to be saying that that llvm (clang) requires gcc? I don't know how to digest that bit of info. <shrug>

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #17:
    David St. Hubbins: It's such a fine line between stupid, and uh... and clever. Norco, CA WX: 47.1°F, 89.0% humidity, 0 mph WSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Mon Mar 2 16:33:23 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    You're saying Java doesn't have a foreseeable future?

    Yes I am. Mind you I am not counting so-called smart devices. Mind you I've never seen nor heard of a development enviroment (compiler and friends) that runs within an OS on a so-called smart device.

    You seem to be saying that that llvm (clang) requires gcc?

    It required something to get it kickstarted. In my case it is/was gcc. At this point in time the resulting clang cannot successfully compile glibc but there looks to be some hope for llvm-10 as a possible contender to build a complete linux-gnu which is what the original claim was and that it is currently available via the mandriva distribution. So far I haven't seen any real evidence that this is true and the llvm-9.0.1 (latest and greatest) falls far short of creating it's own bootable enviroment independent of gcc.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Maurice Kinal on Mon Mar 2 20:55:00 2020
    Good ${greeting_time}, Maurice!

    02 Mar 2020 16:33:22, you wrote to Rob Swindell:

    Yes I am. Mind you I am not counting so-called smart devices. Mind
    you I've never seen nor heard of a development enviroment (compiler
    and friends) that runs within an OS on a so-called smart device.

    So now you would.

    I succeeded running ALT Linux (yes, I joined them in 2017) on a Rockchip RK3288-based mediabox with 4 Gb RAM and 32 Gb flash (used only to boot the kernel, the system itself resides on a RAID-1 built from 2 SSDs).

    Building the kernel takes approx. 2 hours there :-)


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... that's why I really dislike fools.
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Mar 2 20:00:25 2020
    Hallo Alexey!

    So now you would.

    So now I wouldn't. I suppose it depends on the definition of smart devices. I
    probably should have said smartphones and left it at that.

    Rockchip RK3288-based mediabox with 4 Gb RAM and 32 Gb flash

    That I've heard of but I call those single board computers rather than smart devices. I used to build kernels AND rootfs that targetted such devices. Pure
    c source too, compiled by gcc, gcc-4 being the favoured compiler to take care of them. Also build a complete developemnt system in ~128M based on gcc-4 and glibc-2.something.or.other. I don't remember now which version of glibc. Absolutely zero java and given the native development enviroment I'd say infinetly more powerful than anything java based. Also zero python and/or perl
    while we're at it. bash was king on it.

    Building the kernel takes approx. 2 hours there :-)

    Not bad. Which version?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Mon Mar 2 14:35:29 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Mon Mar 02 2020 04:33 pm

    Hallo Rob!

    You're saying Java doesn't have a foreseeable future?

    Yes I am. Mind you I am not counting so-called smart devices. Mind you I've never seen nor heard of a development enviroment (compiler and friends) that runs within an OS on a so-called smart device.

    I'm not sure what constitutes a "smart device" - but in any case, I'm pretty sure Java has a foreseeable future. I'd bet the farm that it'll out live you and me!

    You seem to be saying that that llvm (clang) requires gcc?

    It required something to get it kickstarted. In my case it is/was gcc.

    What does that mean? If you're building clang from source, then yes, you'd need a compiler to do that. But most folks just install a binary package for clang for their OS of choice and use that - no other compiler (gcc or otherwise) needed.

    At
    this point in time the resulting clang cannot successfully compile glibc

    And I wonder why you'd want to.

    but
    there looks to be some hope for llvm-10 as a possible contender to build a complete linux-gnu which is what the original claim was and that it is currently available via the mandriva distribution. So far I haven't seen any real evidence that this is true and the llvm-9.0.1 (latest and greatest) falls far short of creating it's own bootable enviroment independent of gcc.

    Got something against gcc?

    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #21:
    So when you're playing you feel like a preserved moose on stage?
    Norco, CA WX: 65.7°F, 27.0% humidity, 5 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Mon Mar 2 22:41:48 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    I'd bet the farm that it'll out live you and me!

    Speaking for myself, that ain't saying much since I am in my so-called twilight
    years.

    If you're building clang from source, then yes, you'd need a
    compiler to do that.

    Right. Same with gcc which I expect to be upgrading soon (9.3.0).

    And I wonder why you'd want to.

    A number of reasons. Mostly it is a very good distraction for me and has proven itself over the decades to be good exersize for the brain. For sure I am not in it for the money unless you count the money I've spent over the years.

    Got something against gcc?

    The exact opposite. The idea of a purely clang built linux-gnu has me intrigued though and I'd like to see one in action, which means I'll have to build it myself given that nobody else appears to be able to, including mandriva which I believe has made misleading statements over this very issue.

    Can you say otherwise and (more importantly) prove it?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Mon Mar 2 15:17:43 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Mon Mar 02 2020 10:41 pm

    Hallo Rob!

    I'd bet the farm that it'll out live you and me!

    Speaking for myself, that ain't saying much since I am in my so-called twilight years.

    I'm no fan of Java, but I think it still has a lot of momentum and thus, life, left.

    If you're building clang from source, then yes, you'd need a
    compiler to do that.

    Right. Same with gcc which I expect to be upgrading soon (9.3.0).

    And I wonder why you'd want to.

    A number of reasons. Mostly it is a very good distraction for me and has proven itself over the decades to be good exersize for the brain. For sure I am not in it for the money unless you count the money I've spent over the years.

    Got something against gcc?

    The exact opposite. The idea of a purely clang built linux-gnu has me intrigued though and I'd like to see one in action, which means I'll have to build it myself given that nobody else appears to be able to, including mandriva which I believe has made misleading statements over this very issue.

    Can you say otherwise and (more importantly) prove it?

    No. I use both gcc and clang daily and have no particular interest in a Clang-based GNU/Linux distro. <shrug>

    digital man

    Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #81:
    XON = Transmit On (ASCII 17, Ctrl-Q)
    Norco, CA WX: 66.2°F, 26.0% humidity, 6 mph SSW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Tue Mar 3 00:08:41 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    I use both gcc and clang daily and have no particular interest in
    a Clang-based GNU/Linux distro.

    Where is the fun in that?

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Rob Swindell to Maurice Kinal on Mon Mar 2 16:44:23 2020
    Re: life ?
    By: Maurice Kinal to Rob Swindell on Tue Mar 03 2020 12:08 am

    Hallo Rob!

    I use both gcc and clang daily and have no particular interest in
    a Clang-based GNU/Linux distro.

    Where is the fun in that?

    I have a lot of other things I work on that I consider more fun.

    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #46:
    Synchronet External X/Y/ZMODEM protocol driver (SEXYZ) was introduced in 2005. Norco, CA WX: 65.8°F, 27.0% humidity, 0 mph SW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
  • From Alexey Vissarionov@2:5020/545 to Maurice Kinal on Wed Mar 4 11:40:40 2020
    Good ${greeting_time}, Maurice!

    02 Mar 2020 20:00:24, you wrote to me:

    So now you would.
    So now I wouldn't. I suppose it depends on the definition of smart devices. I probably should have said smartphones and left it at that.

    Same thing with BV6000 (MT6755, 2Gb, 16Gb).
    Better CPU (SoC, more precisely), but less RAM.

    Rockchip RK3288-based mediabox with 4 Gb RAM and 32 Gb flash
    That I've heard of but I call those single board computers rather
    than smart devices. I used to build kernels AND rootfs that
    targetted such devices. Pure c source too, compiled by gcc, gcc-4
    being the favoured compiler to take care of them. Also build a
    complete developemnt system in ~128M based on gcc-4 and glibc-2.something.or.other.

    Here the build environment is created from a scratch (that means, list of packages to fetch from local copy of the repository) and deleted just after copying the fresh packages to the repo.

    I don't remember now which version of glibc. Absolutely zero java
    and given the native development enviroment I'd say infinetly more powerful than anything java based. Also zero python and/or perl
    while we're at it.

    ... unless explicitly stated in BuildRequires line of the .spec

    bash was king on it.

    Bash is just a PoS.

    Building the kernel takes approx. 2 hours there :-)
    Not bad. Which version?

    5.5.7 for now.

    However, my favorite server at work builds it just in 4...5 minutes:

    gremlin@taishan:~ > grep -c ^processor /proc/cpuinfo
    96


    --
    Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
    gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

    ... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
    --- /bin/vi
    * Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)
  • From Maurice Kinal@2:280/464.113 to Rob Swindell on Wed Mar 4 09:29:10 2020
    Hallo Rob!

    Here the build environment is created from a scratch (that means,
    list of packages to fetch from local copy of the repository) and
    deleted just after copying the fresh packages to the repo.

    How many packages in total?

    Bash is just a PoS.

    More blasphemy!!! :::sigh:::

    5.5.7 for now.

    That is very recent. How often is it upgraded?

    However, my favorite server at work builds it just in 4...5
    minutes:

    gremlin@taishan:~ > grep -c ^processor /proc/cpuinfo
    96

    Best I can do here at the moment is 8.

    Het leven is goed,
    Maurice

    ... Huil niet om mij, ik heb vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)
  • From Phillip L Taylor Jr@1:275/201.30 to Maurice Kinal on Tue Nov 3 09:42:00 2020
    On Wed 4-Dec-2019 1:11 , Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001.0 said to Alan Ianson:


    I used to do that way back when. Slackware was the best distribution for running on laptops back in the mid to late 1990's especially considering apm
    and cd bootablility issues. In fact the first live cd I ever saw was provided
    by Slackware back on 3.6 if I am recalling correctly. Them were the days.
    `
    until somewhere around the 5.0 kernel.

    I used Slackware a long time ago then I switched to debian becayse I had a lot of issues with it.
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: 1:275/201.0 (1:275/201.30)
  • From Phillip L Taylor Jr@1:275/201.30 to Benny Pedersen on Tue Nov 3 09:47:24 2020
    On Wed 4-Dec-2019 10:29 , Benny Pedersen@2:230/0.0 said to Nick Andre:

    ping for updates :)
    Huh? Linux can't ping properly?

    stay on windows then :)

    Windows sometimes seems to be like ford fix and repair daily.
    --- CNet/5
    * Origin: 1:275/201.0 (1:275/201.30)
  • From Maurice Kinal@1:153/7001 to Phillip L Taylor Jr on Tue Nov 3 18:13:54 2020
    Hey Phillip!

    I used Slackware a long time ago then I switched to debian
    becayse I had a lot of issues with it.

    Back when debian first came out I was highly unimpressed with it. Same with redhat although at the time it was the easiest to get up and running right out of the box. I may still even have the install CDs for those kicking around somewhere. They'd be around 25-ish years old by now.

    As for Debian, the main issue I have with them is compatibility. Things like substitution eglibc for glibc, mawk for awk, etc. Also I always got the impression that debian is the microsoft of linux distributions which in my case is not a good thing.

    I think Slackware is probably the most stable distribution although I haven't been keeping up with the others.

    Life is good,
    Maurice

    ... Don't cry for me I have vi.
    --- GNU bash, version 5.0.18(1)-release (x86_64-lmbrain-linux-gnu)
    * Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Phillip L Taylor Jr on Wed Nov 4 03:48:16 2020
    Hello Phillip!

    03 Nov 2020 09:47, Phillip L Taylor Jr wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    PLTJ> Windows sometimes seems to be like ford fix and repair daily.

    well Nick will solve this pretty fast :)


    Regards Benny

    ... too late to die young :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.9.2-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Benny Pedersen on Wed Nov 4 07:17:12 2020
    On 04 Nov 20 03:48:16, Benny Pedersen said the following to Phillip L Taylor Jr

    PLTJ> Windows sometimes seems to be like ford fix and repair daily.

    well Nick will solve this pretty fast :)

    LOL, solve what? The Sysop's compulsion to screw things up?

    I know its the nature of the silly message hobby but the vast majority of problems I read are from people screwing around with things, incompetency /
    not reading documentation or log files, etc. "experimenting" with things or nagging competent Sysops with hand-holding questions.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Nick Andre on Fri Nov 6 03:46:48 2020
    Hello Nick!

    04 Nov 2020 07:17, Nick Andre wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    PLTJ>>> Windows sometimes seems to be like ford fix and repair daily.
    well Nick will solve this pretty fast :)
    LOL, solve what? The Sysop's compulsion to screw things up?

    building linux kernel for windows lusers that now have a proper browser from google, so all that remains is microsoft edge based on chrome :-)

    I know its the nature of the silly message hobby but the vast majority
    of problems I read are from people screwing around with things, incompetency /

    yes i just love the microsoft commics :)

    not reading documentation or log files, etc. "experimenting" with
    things or nagging competent Sysops with hand-holding questions.

    linux is not that hard


    Regards Benny

    ... too late to die young :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.9.6-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Nov 6 06:53:05 2020
    On 06 Nov 20 03:46:48, Benny Pedersen said the following to Nick Andre:

    building linux kernel for windows lusers that now have a proper browser fro google, so all that remains is microsoft edge based on chrome :-)

    Edge is a fucking joke.

    not reading documentation or log files, etc. "experimenting" with things or nagging competent Sysops with hand-holding questions.

    linux is not that hard

    Agreed... I manage a few Linux VM's for work.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 9 04:00:40 2020
    Hello Nick!

    06 Nov 2020 06:53, Nick Andre wrote to Benny Pedersen:


    Edge is a fucking joke.

    if it was just Edge

    Agreed... I manage a few Linux VM's for work.

    i would try to see how kubenates works, but all i have readed is that its full of secureity bugs, no ?


    Regards Benny

    ... too late to die young :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/5.9.6-gentoo-x86_64 (x86_64))
    * Origin: I will always keep a PC running CPM 3.0 (2:230/0)
  • From Nick Andre@1:229/426 to Benny Pedersen on Mon Nov 9 02:24:56 2020
    On 09 Nov 20 04:00:40, Benny Pedersen said the following to Nick Andre:

    Agreed... I manage a few Linux VM's for work.

    i would try to see how kubenates works, but all i have readed is that its f of secureity bugs, no ?

    I've never used that; just plain SSH.

    Nick

    --- Renegade vY2Ka2
    * Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)