• Burning the Flag

    From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to All on Mon Dec 23 21:13:56 2019
    Hello Everybody,

    How do you feel about those evil folks who burn the flag?
    The US Supreme Court has ruled long ago that Americans have
    the freedom to do that, regardless of how disgusting such
    an act may be, or how offensive others may find it. This
    is granted to them by the First Amendment, and the justices
    have deemed this right as not a mere privilege for a select
    few.

    So why is it that a man in Iowa was convicted, and
    sentenced, to 15 years in prison, for burning the flag?
    How in blazing hell did he manage to do that? His original
    sentence was only five years. But since he was deemed a
    habitual offender, his sentenced was tripled. Imagine
    that. 15 years, for burning the flag. On grounds it was
    a hate crime of arson. You see, the flag represents a
    sexual orientation. And we can't have that in America,
    the Land of the Free, can we?

    https://tinyurl.com/yxxunfb6


    Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
    Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other
    flags had previously been burned, but details were not available.

    My guess is that the only flags that are open game are those
    that are red/white/blue. Burning others are a hate crime, and
    would grant you decades in prison.

    --Lee

    --
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  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Dec 23 20:48:35 2019
    How do you feel about those evil folks who burn the flag?

    In the spirit of liberal lawlessness, I say we let em go. If he burns a transgender person, then we should lock em up.

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  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to Lee Lofaso on Tue Dec 24 09:04:25 2019
    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: Lee Lofaso to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 09:13 pm

    Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
    Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other

    I would have to say, as long as it is "your" flag. Not a flag that was puchased
    by and owned by someone else.

    Not to go down that rabbit hole, but I dislike the burning of the flag. The flag did not cause the transgression. It is a representation of all of us. It's
    not perfect like us. If some one has an issue, it is usually with a peron or persons of the govenment, not the country.

    Our country gives you the freedon to burn such items, as long as it is in a legal manner. This country also gives you the freedom to leave if it makes you that angry.

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net


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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to aaron thomas on Tue Dec 24 21:55:11 2019
    Hello Aaron,

    How do you feel about those evil folks who burn the flag?

    In the spirit of liberal lawlessness, I say we let em go.

    Burning the LGBT pride flag is regarded as being a hate crime
    since the flag represents a sexual orientation. That is what
    makes it a hate crime of arson.

    People who have been convicted of hate crimes should do the time.
    No excuses. Such crimes should never be ignored, as if they had
    never been committed. How do you think the LGBT community would
    have reacted had the defendant told the judge, "I was only joking"
    - with the judge agreeing by throwing all charges out the window?
    Talk about a mockery of justice.

    If he burns a transgender person, then we should lock em up.

    The LGBT pride flag represents far more than just transgender
    persons. Burning their flag is a form of hate speech, which
    makes it a hate crime. In this case, a hate crime of arson.
    Since the convicted individual was a habitual offender, his
    sentence was tripled. 15 years, for burning the flag.

    There are only two countries in the world that make burning
    their national flag a crime - Iran and North Korea. I am sure
    there are many people in the US who believe the US flag should
    also be protected in the same way. This is supposed to be the
    land of the free, and the home of the brave. Certainly we
    can stomach having to watch a small number of misfits burning
    a US flag.

    --Lee

    --
    Nobody Beats Our Meat

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  • From aaron thomas@1:123/525 to Lee Lofaso on Tue Dec 24 21:44:50 2019
    land of the free, and the home of the brave. Certainly we
    can stomach having to watch a small number of misfits burning
    a US flag.

    What's wrong with protesting a Transgender flag? Why is that a hate crime,
    but it's not a hate crime when people burn American flags? When they burn the Transgender flag, they're showing hatred for Transgendered people. When they burn the American flag, they're showing hatred for me and my country. Let's fire up ol' sparky for both of them, why don't we?

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  • From Ron Lauzon@1:275/89 to Lee Lofaso on Wed Dec 25 11:21:00 2019
    Lee Lofaso wrote to aaron thomas <=-

    Burning the LGBT pride flag is regarded as being a hate crime
    since the flag represents a sexual orientation. That is what
    makes it a hate crime of arson.

    "Hate Crime" is "Thought Crime", or to use Scott Adams' term: Loserthink.

    The idea of "hate crime" is based on the misconception that you can tell what a person is thinking at the time he does the crime. That is simply stupid.

    A crime is a crime and can be prosecuted no matter what the person "thought" as he was committing it.

    The LGBT pride flag represents far more than just transgender
    persons. Burning their flag is a form of hate speech, which

    There's no such thing as "hate speech". There's just speech and the First Amendment says that we have freedom of speech.

    "Hate speech" is just something that the ignorant Left (oops, that's redundant) made up to suppress speech that they don't like since "hate speech" is applied to any speech that they disagree with.

    There are only two countries in the world that make burning
    their national flag a crime - Iran and North Korea. I am sure
    there are many people in the US who believe the US flag should
    also be protected in the same way. This is supposed to be the
    land of the free, and the home of the brave. Certainly we
    can stomach having to watch a small number of misfits burning
    a US flag.

    Then we can stomach having a small number of misfits burn the LBGT flag too. That's called "Freedom of Speech".

    Freedom of Speech applies mostly to unpopular speech, because popular speech doesn't need such protection.


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  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 08:06:00 2019
    On 12-24-19, WILL MILBERGER said to LEE LOFASO:

    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: Lee Lofaso to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 09:13 pm


    Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
    Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other


    I would have to say, as long as it is "your" flag. Not a flag that was WM>puchased by and owned by someone else.


    Not to go down that rabbit hole, but I dislike the burning of the flag.


    Burning an American flag is not even considered a crime. In fact it is `protected' as *free speech*.


    Try publicly burning a *gay pride* flag and watch what happens next!


    A guy just recently got sent to prison for burning one.


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  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 08:14:00 2019
    On 12-24-19, WILL MILBERGER said to LEE LOFASO:

    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: Lee Lofaso to All on Mon Dec 23 2019 09:13 pm


    Oh. The flag he burned was red/orange/yellow/green/blue/purple.
    Stolen from a church. Burned in plain sight. At least two other


    I would have to say, as long as it is "your" flag. Not a flag that was WM>puchased by and owned by someone else.


    And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin' America-haters will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire!


    In fact, a protester in front of Maxine Waters's LA office opened a door to
    her offices, grabbed an American flag from within and it was set afire!


    Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!


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  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to TIM RICHARDSON on Sat Dec 28 10:06:38 2019
    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 2019 08:06 am

    Try publicly burning a *gay pride* flag and watch what happens next!
    A guy just recently got sent to prison for burning one.

    I think that is what started this thread. The thing about it is, he took it from a church that was displaying it. It wasn't one he went and bought. So I believe that is what made it a "hate" crime. It is his reaction to it and then taking it and burning it.

    If he bought the flag at Wal-Mart and stood in his front yard and set it alight, there would have been no problem. Unless there was a burn ban in his county.

    Just my .02c worth.

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net


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  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to TIM RICHARDSON on Sat Dec 28 10:15:00 2019
    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 2019 08:14 am

    And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin' America-haters will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire! Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!

    I am not an advocate of flag burning. But I have burned the US flag in accordance with it being old and worn.
    In your example, what makes it truly wrong is taking it from someone and burning it.
    But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net


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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Will Milberger on Sun Dec 29 22:54:55 2019
    Hello Will,

    TR> And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin'
    America-haters
    TR> will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire!
    TR> Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well
    TR> have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!

    I am not an advocate of flag burning. But I have burned the US flag in
    accordance with it being old and worn.

    I did it. Once. Actually, I gave somebody else the idea, and he
    did it. Back when I was in the boy scouts. One of us (not me) had accidentally dropped the flag into a puddle of mud, and we decided
    it was not worth the effort to clean it up as it was a very old flag.
    So I mentioned that it would be best to destroy the flag as it was
    unusable. One of us (not me) provided a match, and somebody else
    (not me) set the flag on fire. The scoutmaster then came screaming
    out of his house with words none of us understood, and then we had
    a lot of explaining to do. But really, it was all his fault. He
    had been the one who told us the proper way to retire a flag was
    to burn it. Only, it was his flag, and he was a veteran. So, he
    had no choice but to forgive us, which he did. With tears in
    his eyes.

    In your example, what makes it truly wrong is taking it from someone and
    burning it. But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

    Well, the owner did allow us to use it ...

    --Lee

    --
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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Will Milberger on Sun Dec 29 22:55:13 2019
    Hello Will,

    Try publicly burning a *gay pride* flag and watch what happens next!
    A guy just recently got sent to prison for burning one.

    I think that is what started this thread. The thing about it is, he took it
    from a church that was displaying it. It wasn't one he went and bought. So
    I believe that is what made it a "hate" crime. It is his reaction to it and then taking it and burning it.

    If he bought the flag at Wal-Mart and stood in his front yard and set it >alight, there would have been no problem. Unless there was a burn ban in his
    county.

    According to the news report, he was convicted of the "hate crime
    of arson", his sentenced tripled since he was a habitual offender.
    The flag used was noted as being a symbol of sexual orientation.

    Apparently it made no difference whose flag it belonged to, or that
    it had been stolen, or even that it was burned. The fact that it was
    a symbol of sexual orientation is what did the guy in. Had he pissed
    or defecated on it, he would have been convicted of the "hate crime
    of whatever_the_judge_wanted_to_call_it". Same harsh sentence.

    Had he done that with a US flag of the red, white and blue variety
    he would have been seen by some as being a hero.

    --Lee

    --
    Laying Pipe Since '88

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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Dec 30 07:21:00 2019
    On 29 Dec 2019, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    According to the news report, he was convicted of the "hate crime
    of arson", his sentenced tripled since he was a habitual offender.
    The flag used was noted as being a symbol of sexual orientation.

    Right there that is what is terribly wrong with the left, and this is also why they fail, and will continue to do so.

    Looking at the Flag as a symbol of sexual orientation.
    and
    Thugs looking at the flag as symbol of police brutality.
    All because they want to blame somebody else for problems that they
    themselves created. So they look at the flag and think this is what I will
    use as a jumping off point.

    All because you see what you want to see and all of this because they can't deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for what the colors truly mean.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Gregory Deyss on Tue Dec 31 02:40:29 2019
    Hello Greg,

    According to the news report, he was convicted of the "hate crime
    of arson", his sentenced tripled since he was a habitual offender.
    The flag used was noted as being a symbol of sexual orientation.

    Right there that is what is terribly wrong with the left, and this is also
    why they fail, and will continue to do so.

    Since you believe it is okay for folks to burn the LGBTQ+ flag,
    then it must also be okay with you for folks to burn the US flag.
    Otherwise, it would be a double standard. One for your kind, and
    one for their kind. No more "One God, indivisible, with liberty
    and justice for all" in existence any more. For anybody.

    Looking at the Flag as a symbol of sexual orientation.

    That is how the judge looked at it. And that is how the judge
    decided to rule on the matter. He found the defendant "guilty"
    on all counts of the "hate crime of arson" and sentenced him
    to 15 years hard labor in the state penitentiary.

    and
    Thugs looking at the flag as symbol of police brutality.

    Unfortunately, police brutality is not a hate crime. But it
    most defintely should be. However, no thug will ever be sentended
    to prison for burning the US flag. After all, every judge knows
    what the US flag really means (oppression for black folks).
    Much better to let them burn the US flag than beat up police
    who are trying to do their job.

    All because they want to blame somebody else for problems that they >themselves created.

    Say wha'? Betsy Ross was a WHITE woman! Black folk want to have
    a Kwaanza flag! Not one of those red, white and blue thingies!
    Much more colorful, with more colors, almost as many as the LGBTQ+
    flag. That is what is needed for America to make it great again!

    So they look at the flag and think this is what I will use as a jumping off
    point.

    Look at all those pictures of hippies burning the US flag. Have
    you ever noticed that all of those hippies are white? Not a single
    black face among them. You know why? Black folks have their own
    flag. And they never burn their own flags.

    All because you see what you want to see and all of this because they can't
    deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for
    what the colors truly mean.

    What do the colors truly mean?

    Let's start with the US flag -

    Red
    White
    Blue

    Put them all together, and what does it mean?
    Justice! Equal Justice for All!

    Do the colors of the LGBTQ+ flag mean the same?
    Let's find out -

    Red
    Orange
    Yellow
    Green
    Blue
    Purple

    Put them all together, and what does it mean?
    Pride! Gay Pride!

    Now. Which would you rather have? Equal justice for all,
    or a thankful nation filled with pride?

    --Lee

    --
    Laying Pipe Since '88

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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Dec 30 22:30:22 2019
    On 31 Dec 2019, Lee Lofaso said the following...

    Hello Greg,
    Look at all those pictures of hippies burning the US flag. Have
    you ever noticed that all of those hippies are white? Not a single
    black face among them. You know why? Black folks have their own
    flag. And they never burn their own flags.

    Interesting you mentioned hippies, you know who else was unemployed to the
    age of 45 not to mention homeless, Bernie Sanders.

    All because you see what you want to see and all of this because they can
    deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for what the colors truly mean.

    What do the colors truly mean?

    Let's start with the US flag -

    Red
    White
    Blue

    Put them all together, and what does it mean?
    Justice! Equal Justice for All!

    Do the colors of the LGBTQ+ flag mean the same?
    Let's find out -

    Red
    Orange
    Yellow
    Green
    Blue
    Purple

    Put them all together, and what does it mean?
    Pride! Gay Pride!

    Now. Which would you rather have? Equal justice for all,
    or a thankful nation filled with pride?

    There is the problem. You missing the point of pride element that one can not process pride with the Red White and the Blue.
    To some this makes me a bigot, gun carrying - threat.
    So be it.

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Gregory Deyss on Wed Jan 1 01:17:29 2020
    Hello Greg,

    Look at all those pictures of hippies burning the US flag. Have
    you ever noticed that all of those hippies are white? Not a single >LL>black face among them. You know why? Black folks have their own
    flag. And they never burn their own flags.

    Interesting you mentioned hippies, you know who else was unemployed to the
    age of 45 not to mention homeless, Bernie Sanders.

    That was a long time ago. When he still had hair.

    LL> >All because you see what you want to see and all of this because
    they can
    LL> > deal with it. Their personal choices are not ours. I see disrespect for
    LL> > what the colors truly mean.
    LL>
    LL> What do the colors truly mean?
    LL>
    LL> Let's start with the US flag -
    LL>
    LL> Red
    LL> White
    LL> Blue
    LL>
    LL> Put them all together, and what does it mean?
    LL> Justice! Equal Justice for All!
    LL>
    LL> Do the colors of the LGBTQ+ flag mean the same?
    LL> Let's find out -
    LL>
    LL> Red
    LL> Orange
    LL> Yellow
    LL> Green
    LL> Blue
    LL> Purple
    LL>
    LL> Put them all together, and what does it mean?
    LL> Pride! Gay Pride!
    LL>
    LL> Now. Which would you rather have? Equal justice for all,
    LL> or a thankful nation filled with pride?

    There is the problem. You missing the point of pride element that one can
    not process pride with the Red White and the Blue.

    Are you saying, or suggesting, that Americans have no pride?
    I'll have you know there are lots of LGBTQ+ folks who have their
    pictures on US postage stamps. And to date, nobody that I know
    of has ever set fire to a single postage stamp (although the
    post office did make it impossible to lick the stamps).

    To some this makes me a bigot, gun carrying - threat.
    So be it.

    Shooting up postage stamps sounds like lots of fun. But expensive.
    Especially since the price keeps going up ...

    --Lee

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  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to WILL MILBERGER on Mon Jan 6 02:12:00 2020
    On 12-28-19, WILL MILBERGER said to TIM RICHARDSON:

    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Fri Dec 27 2019 08:14 am

    And thats a load of bull, as it happens that scumsuckin' America-haters will grab an American flag right out of someone's hand and set it afire!
    Of course...we're talking about `Maxine Waters'....so she might very well have `handed' the flag out to them so they could burn it. She's the type!


    I am not an advocate of flag burning. But I have burned the US flag in WM>accordance with it being old and worn.
    In your example, what makes it truly wrong is taking it from someone and WM>burning it.


    But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.



    I was around when people were first burning American flags in the sixties, and nobody got put in prison for 16 years over it that I ever heard.


    And they used to snatch them right off businesses along the street or even off peoples' lawns, and squirt lighter fluid on them and light them off.


    Nobody went to prison over it.






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  • From Will Milberger@1:106/101 to TIM RICHARDSON on Mon Jan 6 10:28:35 2020
    Re: Burning the Flag
    By: TIM RICHARDSON to WILL MILBERGER on Mon Jan 06 2020 02:12 am

    Nobody went to prison over it.

    Somebody did, or there would not have been the Federal Flag Desecration Law, passed in '68 by Congress. Was basically in effect until 1989 when the Supreme Court struck it down in Texas v. Johnson

    Grease
    darkmatt.synchro.net


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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to TIM RICHARDSON on Mon Jan 6 21:03:22 2020
    Hello Tim,

    But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.



    I was around when people were first burning American flags in the sixties, and
    nobody got put in prison for 16 years over it that I ever heard.


    And they used to snatch them right off businesses along the street or even off
    peoples' lawns, and squirt lighter fluid on them and light them off.


    Nobody went to prison over it.

    Nobody can burn the US flag any more now that they are all
    made in China out of flame retardant material.

    --Lee

    --
    Often Licked, Never Beaten

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:221/360 to Will Milberger on Tue Jan 7 04:40:31 2020
    Hello Will,

    Nobody went to prison over it.

    Somebody did, or there would not have been the Federal Flag Desecration Law,
    passed in '68 by Congress. Was basically in effect until 1989 when the Supreme Court struck it down in Texas v. Johnson

    It was a split decision. Not unanimous. If the makeup of the
    USSC continues its trend to the right, becoming a 7-2 conservative
    majority, expect the flag issue to be raised again, with a far
    different outcome.

    --Lee

    --
    Often Licked, Never Beaten

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